Guard has no more reliable way of doing damage

[GuriGashi.5617]

The rise of Burn DH was based on the fact, that Guards weren‘t able to land power damage since the Writ of Persistence (symbol trait) nerf, which basically was a nerf on every single mainhand weapon for Guards and with burn damage as an option gone Guards have officially not a single way left oft doing damage after this patch. Even Zeal GS is a bad build, since you have to heavily invest in it and are pretty much a glass canon that doesn‘t land any damage through slow mobility.

I agree with the Burn Guard nerf, but it would have been cool to see some sort of single player power damage buff in return

[lotus.5672]

power guardian is fine

[GuriGashi.5617]

@lotus.5672 said:power guardian is fine

Saying the exact opposite without any explanation is no argument

[Avatar.3568]

Power guard power dh and you still. Doing burns, just not as opressiv as before

[Arheundel.6451]

@snoow.1694 said:The rise of Burn DH was based on the fact, that Guards weren‘t able to land power damage since the Writ of Persistence (symbol trait) nerf, which basically was a nerf on every single mainhand weapon for Guards and with burn damage as an option gone Guards have officially not a single way left oft doing damage after this patch. Even the Zeal GS is a bad build, since you have to heavily invest in it and are pretty much a glass canon that doesn‘t land any damage through slow mobility.

I agree with the Burn Guard nerf, but it would have been cool to see some sort of single player power damage buff in return

Symbols still do plenty of dmg on their own with zeal line....power coefficients of sword and GS are still relatively high....hammer regardless of what other say, still hits quite hard (5-6k with glacial heart) .

[GuriGashi.5617]

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@snoow.1694 said:The rise of Burn DH was based on the fact, that Guards weren‘t able to land power damage since the Writ of Persistence (symbol trait) nerf, which basically was a nerf on every single mainhand weapon for Guards and with burn damage as an option gone Guards have officially not a single way left oft doing damage after this patch. Even the Zeal GS is a bad build, since you have to heavily invest in it and are pretty much a glass canon that doesn‘t land any damage through slow mobility.

I agree with the Burn Guard nerf, but it would have been cool to see some sort of single player power damage buff in return

Symbols still do plenty of dmg on their own with zeal line....power coefficients of sword and GS are still relatively high....hammer regardless of what other say, still hits quite hard (5-6k with glacial heart) .

Problem with you assessment is these skills hit well on a target golem, not a moving target and require heavy amounts of offensive investments (traits and skills like a port) to be able to land effectively. No one with a brain will stand longer than a tick in small symbols, subtract the support skills on our weapons, autoattacks and control effects and we are practically left with GS 2, GS 3, Hammer 2, LB 2, Mace 3 and MAYBE Focus 5 - of which half are insanely hard to land as the slowest class ingame. Add to that that you have to run full glass canon in order to do damage and you end up as a freekill with 11K HP who can‘t land its skills or has only one burst skill per weapon swap.

Compare GS on Guard where 2 skills do good power damage and with 1 engage to Warrior GS where every skill does damage and with 2 engages + range skill - it is not even close.

What if your Glacial Blow is dodged, what do you do then for 6 seconds? Look at your target?

[Shaogin.2679]

Nothing is fine about Power Guard. I can't even remember the last time I encountered one.

I say this as someone that despises Guardians because they always manage to find a way to be Meta in every aspect of the game. Guardian damage in PvP has been trash for some time now. They've been surviving by mainly being a support or bunker class until Burn Guards made a come back. However, it seems Anet is intent on nerfing every support build that pops up in PvP, and with Burn Guards being nerfed as well, Guardians will be in a rough spot. Sure, Burn Guards were bad for the majority of PvP players, but they are removing every option for Guardians in PvP without providing new options. Then again, Guardians are like cockroaches, I'm sure a new meta build will show up out of nowhere.

[GuriGashi.5617]

@Shaogin.2679 said:Nothing is fine about Power Guard. I can't even remember the last time I encountered one.

I say this as someone that despises Guardians because they always manage to find a way to be Meta in every aspect of the game. Guardian damage in PvP has been trash for some time now. They've been surviving by mainly being a support or bunker class until Burn Guards made a come back. However, it seems Anet is intent on nerfing every support build that pops up in PvP, and with Burn Guards being nerfed as well, Guardians will be in a rough spot. Sure, Burn Guards were bad for the majority of PvP players, but they are removing every option for Guardians in PvP without providing new options. Then again, Guardians are like cockroaches, I'm sure a new meta build will show up out of nowhere.

It will and it will be Tank Decap DH with Hammer and Shield, something no one will enjoy

[Myror.7521]

I play some kind of Power guardian myself and must say .... they are fine as they are and shouldnt see hard buffs. (maybe a LITTLE bit more sustain to core guardian??? idk but hmm core power guardian like this build http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWwAEx3lVwAZesP2IWuPqrcA-zZIPkMVB9KESYC44B are in a pretty good spot in my opinion)

P.S. Maybe they need to at least buff DH a bit in terms of Longbows damage (maybe just buff the 4th skill damage slinghtly)

[Shaogin.2679]

Those builds are good when you are more skilled than your opponent, but objectively speaking, when compared to current meta builds, they are either garbage or barely viable. If you guys wanna act like everything is fine and let Guardian burn in a dumpster fire, that is perfectly fine by me. Lol. I hate Guardians. You are screwing over your fellow Guardians though.

[Khalisto.5780]

That's what you getting for gatekeeping rune of the monkey

I like 0 these changes tho, removing superspeed or reducing both effects duration to 1.5s would've been better

Core has nothing to do with this monkey ish mechanics dh enables

[Yasai.3549]

Power DH still pretty decent tho.They have the ability to shred anything that isn't a bunker because Dragons Maw into multiple spins actually chunk people hard.

Still, no idea why they decide to nerf duration again instead of just reducing burn base damage.Those Burns won't even last a second if yur enemy is running -Condi duration runes.

[Jack Angelfoot.2697]

OP is right. Condi Dragon Hunter was the only reliable guardian DPS build on even footing with the top builds from Tempest, Scourge (technically, a well-played Scourge was still much stronger), and Holosmith. Condi DH is now 100% dead. A 50% damage reduction would kill meta DPS build except for Condi Scourge at this point.

Now, Guards can run vanilla support (which is much weaker than a Scourge, Engie, Druid, or either Ele variant. Alternatively, we can run power and be outclassed in all areas by Reapers, Holos, Mesmers and Wars. Some garbage variation will stay meta because Guard is the most played class in the game. But the build will be garbage until there is a full rebalance.

If you can play other classes in PvP, jump now. Guards are dead.

[Skyroar.2974]

Core Supp Guardians should still see play, just perhaps no longer as the dominant supp choice.

But yes, offensive builds are pretty much dead. Have fun being a worse version of thief or revenant.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@Jack Angelfoot.2697 said:OP is right. Condi Dragon Hunter was the only reliable guardian DPS build on even footing with the top builds from Tempest, Scourge (technically, a well-played Scourge was still much stronger), and Holosmith. Condi DH is now 100% dead. A 50% damage reduction would kill meta DPS build except for Condi Scourge at this point.

Now, Guards can run vanilla support (which is much weaker than a Scourge, Engie, Druid, or either Ele variant. Alternatively, we can run power and be outclassed in all areas by Reapers, Holos, Mesmers and Wars. Some garbage variation will stay meta because Guard is the most played class in the game. But the build will be garbage until there is a full rebalance.

If you can play other classes in PvP, jump now. Guards are dead.

excuse me sir, are you implying that druid is better support then core fucking guard?

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@snoow.1694 said:

@lotus.5672 said:power guardian is fine

Saying the exact opposite without any explanation is no argument

Nah

I've been seeing oldschool power burst core in ATs lately. They still work fine. It's not that power burst was ever bad, it's that burn builds were able to be tweaked in such a way that they had similar damage output to power bust but also 4x the sustain factor.

Burn on Guards is fine. You guys just aren't used to dealing realistic in-line damage output. You're used to outputting this tremendously high pressure where 2 stacks of AoE burn that hits 5 targets can chunk 70% off everyone's life bar. It has made you desensitized to what balanced damage output is supposed to feel like.

[GuriGashi.5617]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@snoow.1694 said:

@lotus.5672 said:power guardian is fine

Saying the exact opposite without any explanation is no argument

Nah

I've been seeing oldschool power burst core in ATs lately. They still work fine. It's not that power burst was ever bad, it's that burn builds were able to be tweaked in such a way that they had similar damage output to power bust but also 4x the sustain factor.

Burn on Guards is fine. You guys just aren't used to dealing realistic in-line damage output. You're used to outputting this tremendously high pressure where 2 stacks of AoE burn that hits 5 targets can chunk 70% off everyone's life bar. It has made you desensitized to what balanced damage output is supposed to feel like.

Actually no - when you have one skill that does burst damage per weapon swap and the rest is symbols no one will ever stay in, control effects and support skills you have no way of bursting someone down - this is the reason why Guards swapped to Burn DH right after symbols were nerfed into uselessness. We have GS 2 & 3, Sword 3, LB 3, Mace 3, Hammer 2, rest doesn‘t contribute whatsoever to bursting someone down.I like seeing Burn DH gone, but we have to admit that Power Guards are big jokes with 11K HP, bad tooltip numbers and extreme low mobility to land skills. Whoever loses a 1v1 to a Power Guard in this meta should consider to change the game mode

Also no, in fact I haven‘t played burn DH a single time the last 2 seasons, so your „you guys are desensitized“ doesn‘t really make sense. I say power damage on Guard is garbage, because it actually is when 4/5 of your skills are support skills, control effects or avoidable by walking for a quarter second in case of symbols

[Kuma.1503]

Burn DH still does perfectly fine amounts of damage. a 3 man dragon's maw in a teamfight is still a teamfight won. It still pairs well with scourge and immob ranger to provide lockdown and cover condis for the burns.

I usually speak out aagainst all these nerfs, but burn DH was obviously way beyond overperforming, and even after the tone down, they're still viable.

But who knows, maybe playing core engi and power dps weaver have skewed my perspective on what a strong class should feel like.

[GuriGashi.5617]

@Kuma.1503 said:Burn DH still does perfectly fine amounts of damage. a 3 man dragon's maw in a teamfight is still a teamfight won. It still pairs well with scourge and immob ranger to provide lockdown and cover condis for the burns.

I usually speak out aagainst all these nerfs, but burn DH was obviously way beyond overperforming, and even after the tone down, they're still viable.

But who knows, maybe playing core engi and power dps weaver have skewed my perspective on what a strong class should feel like.

It was, this is why I wrote the same. However, Burn DH was already a gimmick that was a tradeoff of sustain for insane amounts of damage, which no one will take anymore. They essentially cut the damage in half, removed one charge of Sword of Justice resulting in a further 25% damage cut and increased time between casts of SoJ. Sacking every form of sustain is not worth it anymore.

Again I agree with the nerf, but what this is about is the abnormally low and hard to hit power damage Guardians have, which forced this class into degenerate burn builds to have acceptable damage after symbols and with them essentially every single mainhand weapon Guardians use were nerfed

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@snoow.1694 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@snoow.1694 said:

@lotus.5672 said:power guardian is fine

Saying the exact opposite without any explanation is no argument

Nah

I've been seeing oldschool power burst core in ATs lately. They still work fine. It's not that power burst was ever bad, it's that burn builds were able to be tweaked in such a way that they had similar damage output to power bust but also 4x the sustain factor.

Burn on Guards is fine. You guys just aren't used to dealing realistic in-line damage output. You're used to outputting this tremendously high pressure where 2 stacks of AoE burn that hits 5 targets can chunk 70% off everyone's life bar. It has made you desensitized to what balanced damage output is supposed to feel like.

Actually no - when you have one skill that does burst damage per weapon swap and the rest is symbols no one will ever stay in, control effects and support skills you have no way of bursting someone down - this is the reason why Guards swapped to Burn DH right after symbols were nerfed into uselessness. We have GS 2 & 3, Sword 3, LB 3, Mace 3, Hammer 2, rest doesn‘t contribute whatsoever to bursting someone down.I like seeing Burn DH gone, but we have to admit that Power Guards are big jokes with 11K HP, bad tooltip numbers and extreme low mobility to land skills. Whoever loses a 1v1 to a Power Guard in this meta should consider to change the game mode

Also no, in fact I haven‘t played burn DH a single time the last 2 seasons, so your „you guys are desensitized“ doesn‘t really make sense. I say power damage on Guard is garbage, because it actually is when 4/5 of your skills are support skills, control effects or avoidable by walking for a quarter second in case of symbols

Nothing you mentioned at all is even a typical burst. I'm not talking about node hold symbol fbs, I'm talking about Power Core Burst Guards.

You know, when a bunch of shit stacked together that when executed correctly, lands a burst similar to a berserker/eagle sic em soulbeast with one wolf pack stated for damage:

1. Select target in the team fight
2. Prime Focus 5
3. Hit target with Focus 4
4. Land your Scepter 2 - If not using Scepter skip to 5
5. Swap to GS and begin cast animation of GS 4, then use JI to target in team fight
6. As animation on GS 4 finishes under the target, Focus 5 will explode dealing damage, right as you are using GS 2 spin to win

^ This build still works. People just weren't using it because FB was OP for awhile and then the OP swapped to Core burns & supports and DH. I didn't say Power Burst Core was OP, I said it still works fine in a balanced way. Although it isn't a big fat side node beast, it is a powerful team fighter and + while with supports.

I'll say it again, Guardian players are complaining right now because they've been riding the OP top 3 meta train for a very very very long time at this point. Time to experience some good old fashioned middle tiered balance like the rest of us.

[GuriGashi.5617]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@snoow.1694 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@snoow.1694 said:

@lotus.5672 said:power guardian is fine

Saying the exact opposite without any explanation is no argument

Nah

I've been seeing oldschool power burst core in ATs lately. They still work fine. It's not that power burst was ever bad, it's that burn builds were able to be tweaked in such a way that they had similar damage output to power bust but also 4x the sustain factor.

Burn on Guards is fine. You guys just aren't used to dealing realistic in-line damage output. You're used to outputting this tremendously high pressure where 2 stacks of AoE burn that hits 5 targets can chunk 70% off everyone's life bar. It has made you desensitized to what balanced damage output is supposed to feel like.

Actually no - when you have one skill that does burst damage per weapon swap and the rest is symbols no one will ever stay in, control effects and support skills you have no way of bursting someone down - this is the reason why Guards swapped to Burn DH right after symbols were nerfed into uselessness. We have GS 2 & 3, Sword 3, LB 3, Mace 3, Hammer 2, rest doesn‘t contribute whatsoever to bursting someone down.I like seeing Burn DH gone, but we have to admit that Power Guards are big jokes with 11K HP, bad tooltip numbers and extreme low mobility to land skills. Whoever loses a 1v1 to a Power Guard in this meta should consider to change the game mode

Also no, in fact I haven‘t played burn DH a single time the last 2 seasons, so your „you guys are desensitized“ doesn‘t really make sense. I say power damage on Guard is garbage, because it actually is when 4/5 of your skills are support skills, control effects or avoidable by walking for a quarter second in case of symbols

Nothing you mentioned at all is even a typical burst. I'm not talking about node hold symbol fbs, I'm talking about Power Core Burst Guards.

You know, when a bunch of kitten stacked together that when executed correctly, lands a burst similar to a berserker/eagle sic em soulbeast with one wolf pack stated for damage:

1. Select target in the team fight
2. Prime Focus 5
3. Hit target with Focus 4
4. Land your Scepter 2 - If not using Scepter skip to 5
5. Swap to GS and begin cast animation of GS 4, then use JI to target in team fight
6. As animation on GS 4 finishes under the target, Focus 5 will explode dealing damage, then GS 2 and spin to win

^ This build still works. People just weren't using it because FB was OP for awhile and then the OP swapped to Core burns & supports and DH. I didn't say Power Burst Core was OP, I said it still works fine in a balanced way. Although it isn't a big fat side node beast, it is a powerful team fighter while with supports and DPS +

I'll say it again, Guardian players are complaining right now because they've been riding the OP top 3 meta train for a very very very long time at this point. Time to experience some good old fashioned middle tiered balance like the rest of us.

Except that if you miss one step in your whole process and your whole burst goes to the trashcan through one block or evade, you have casted pretty much everything on your skillbar and are a slow freekill with 11K health. I know how to play GS guard skill rotation with JI combos and GS5, which are alot safer than what you described, since I have been playing the class since beta, but this doesn‘t make the build more viable and change the fact that it is an insanely bad power build that in this meta gets outperformed by every other roamer.There is no bursting when you have 1 burst skill until the next weapon swap and use half your skillbar while maybe landing it as a slow glasscanon

[Ragnar.4257]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@snoow.1694 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@snoow.1694 said:

@lotus.5672 said:power guardian is fine

Saying the exact opposite without any explanation is no argument

Nah

I've been seeing oldschool power burst core in ATs lately. They still work fine. It's not that power burst was ever bad, it's that burn builds were able to be tweaked in such a way that they had similar damage output to power bust but also 4x the sustain factor.

Burn on Guards is fine. You guys just aren't used to dealing realistic in-line damage output. You're used to outputting this tremendously high pressure where 2 stacks of AoE burn that hits 5 targets can chunk 70% off everyone's life bar. It has made you desensitized to what balanced damage output is supposed to feel like.

Actually no - when you have one skill that does burst damage per weapon swap and the rest is symbols no one will ever stay in, control effects and support skills you have no way of bursting someone down - this is the reason why Guards swapped to Burn DH right after symbols were nerfed into uselessness. We have GS 2 & 3, Sword 3, LB 3, Mace 3, Hammer 2, rest doesn‘t contribute whatsoever to bursting someone down.I like seeing Burn DH gone, but we have to admit that Power Guards are big jokes with 11K HP, bad tooltip numbers and extreme low mobility to land skills. Whoever loses a 1v1 to a Power Guard in this meta should consider to change the game mode

Also no, in fact I haven‘t played burn DH a single time the last 2 seasons, so your „you guys are desensitized“ doesn‘t really make sense. I say power damage on Guard is garbage, because it actually is when 4/5 of your skills are support skills, control effects or avoidable by walking for a quarter second in case of symbols

Nothing you mentioned at all is even a typical burst. I'm not talking about node hold symbol fbs, I'm talking about Power Core Burst Guards.

You know, when a bunch of kitten stacked together that when executed correctly, lands a burst similar to a berserker/eagle sic em soulbeast with one wolf pack stated for damage:

1. Select target in the team fight
2. Prime Focus 5
3. Hit target with Focus 4
4. Land your Scepter 2 - If not using Scepter skip to 5
5. Swap to GS and begin cast animation of GS 4, then use JI to target in team fight
6. As animation on GS 4 finishes under the target, Focus 5 will explode dealing damage, right as you are using GS 2 spin to win

^ This build still works. People just weren't using it because FB was OP for awhile and then the OP swapped to Core burns & supports and DH. I didn't say Power Burst Core was OP, I said it still works fine in a balanced way. Although it isn't a big fat side node beast, it is a powerful team fighter and + while with supports.

I'll say it again, Guardian players are complaining right now because they've been riding the OP top 3 meta train for a very very very long time at this point. Time to experience some good old fashioned middle tiered balance like the rest of us.

Who on earth would ever choose this in their team over a Rev or Reaper? It's the same damage output, but with 11k HP, less mobility, and can only connect damage every 30+ seconds by using JI. 11khp, and no blocks or evades on GS, basically means that you can only take a single hit before you have to go into defense/kite-mode, which means your presence in a fight is waaaaaay less than other DPS options. And if you're going to play it as a gank rather than as a team-nuker, there are many many better options for that role.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@snoow.1694 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@snoow.1694 said:

@"lotus.5672" said:power guardian is fine

Saying the exact opposite without any explanation is no argument

Nah

I've been seeing oldschool power burst core in ATs lately. They still work fine. It's not that power burst was ever bad, it's that burn builds were able to be tweaked in such a way that they had similar damage output to power bust but also 4x the sustain factor.

Burn on Guards is fine. You guys just aren't used to dealing realistic in-line damage output. You're used to outputting this tremendously high pressure where 2 stacks of AoE burn that hits 5 targets can chunk 70% off everyone's life bar. It has made you desensitized to what balanced damage output is supposed to feel like.

Actually no - when you have one skill that does burst damage per weapon swap and the rest is symbols no one will ever stay in, control effects and support skills you have no way of bursting someone down - this is the reason why Guards swapped to Burn DH right after symbols were nerfed into uselessness. We have GS 2 & 3, Sword 3, LB 3, Mace 3, Hammer 2, rest doesn‘t contribute whatsoever to bursting someone down.I like seeing Burn DH gone, but we have to admit that Power Guards are big jokes with 11K HP, bad tooltip numbers and extreme low mobility to land skills. Whoever loses a 1v1 to a Power Guard in this meta should consider to change the game mode

Also no, in fact I haven‘t played burn DH a single time the last 2 seasons, so your „you guys are desensitized“ doesn‘t really make sense. I say power damage on Guard is garbage, because it actually is when 4/5 of your skills are support skills, control effects or avoidable by walking for a quarter second in case of symbols

Nothing you mentioned at all is even a typical burst. I'm not talking about node hold symbol fbs, I'm talking about Power Core Burst Guards.

You know, when a bunch of kitten stacked together that when executed correctly, lands a burst similar to a berserker/eagle sic em soulbeast with one wolf pack stated for damage:

1. Select target in the team fight
2. Prime Focus 5
3. Hit target with Focus 4
4. Land your Scepter 2 - If not using Scepter skip to 5
5. Swap to GS and begin cast animation of GS 4, then use JI to target in team fight
6. As animation on GS 4 finishes under the target, Focus 5 will explode dealing damage, right as you are using GS 2 spin to win

^ This build still works. People just weren't using it because FB was OP for awhile and then the OP swapped to Core burns & supports and DH. I didn't say Power Burst Core was OP, I said it still works fine in a balanced way. Although it isn't a big fat side node beast, it is a powerful team fighter and + while with supports.

I'll say it again, Guardian players are complaining right now because they've been riding the OP top 3 meta train for a very very very long time at this point. Time to experience some good old fashioned middle tiered balance like the rest of us.

Who on earth would ever choose this in their team over a Rev or Reaper? It's the same damage output, but with 11k HP and less mobility. 11khp, and no blocks or evades on GS, basically means that you can only take a single hit before you have to go into defense/kite-mode, which means your presence in a fight is waaaaaay less than other DPS options. And if you're going to play it as a gank rather than as a team-nuker, there are many many better options for that role.

I didn't say anyone would pick it over a Rev or Reaper. I said it performs fine in a balanced way as compared to how dominant burn on Guardian has been for about the past year.

Everything I have said was in relation to the OP post of "Guard has no more reliable way of doing damage"

Just pointing out that the statement is not true. Guardians, core, DH, FB, they all definitely still deal damage, although it may no longer be a top 3 meta pick.

[Shao.7236]

@Ragnar.4257 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@snoow.1694 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@snoow.1694 said:

@lotus.5672 said:power guardian is fine

Saying the exact opposite without any explanation is no argument

Nah

I've been seeing oldschool power burst core in ATs lately. They still work fine. It's not that power burst was ever bad, it's that burn builds were able to be tweaked in such a way that they had similar damage output to power bust but also 4x the sustain factor.

Burn on Guards is fine. You guys just aren't used to dealing realistic in-line damage output. You're used to outputting this tremendously high pressure where 2 stacks of AoE burn that hits 5 targets can chunk 70% off everyone's life bar. It has made you desensitized to what balanced damage output is supposed to feel like.

Actually no - when you have one skill that does burst damage per weapon swap and the rest is symbols no one will ever stay in, control effects and support skills you have no way of bursting someone down - this is the reason why Guards swapped to Burn DH right after symbols were nerfed into uselessness. We have GS 2 & 3, Sword 3, LB 3, Mace 3, Hammer 2, rest doesn‘t contribute whatsoever to bursting someone down.I like seeing Burn DH gone, but we have to admit that Power Guards are big jokes with 11K HP, bad tooltip numbers and extreme low mobility to land skills. Whoever loses a 1v1 to a Power Guard in this meta should consider to change the game mode

Also no, in fact I haven‘t played burn DH a single time the last 2 seasons, so your „you guys are desensitized“ doesn‘t really make sense. I say power damage on Guard is garbage, because it actually is when 4/5 of your skills are support skills, control effects or avoidable by walking for a quarter second in case of symbols

Nothing you mentioned at all is even a typical burst. I'm not talking about node hold symbol fbs, I'm talking about Power Core Burst Guards.

You know, when a bunch of kitten stacked together that when executed correctly, lands a burst similar to a berserker/eagle sic em soulbeast with one wolf pack stated for damage:

1. Select target in the team fight
2. Prime Focus 5
3. Hit target with Focus 4
4. Land your Scepter 2 - If not using Scepter skip to 5
5. Swap to GS and begin cast animation of GS 4, then use JI to target in team fight
6. As animation on GS 4 finishes under the target, Focus 5 will explode dealing damage, right as you are using GS 2 spin to win

^ This build still works. People just weren't using it because FB was OP for awhile and then the OP swapped to Core burns & supports and DH. I didn't say Power Burst Core was OP, I said it still works fine in a balanced way. Although it isn't a big fat side node beast, it is a powerful team fighter and + while with supports.

I'll say it again, Guardian players are complaining right now because they've been riding the OP top 3 meta train for a very very very long time at this point. Time to experience some good old fashioned middle tiered balance like the rest of us.

Who on earth would ever choose this in their team over a Rev or Reaper? It's the same damage output, but with 11k HP, less mobility, and can only connect damage every 30+ seconds by using JI. 11khp, and no blocks or evades on GS, basically means that you can only take a single hit before you have to go into defense/kite-mode, which means your presence in a fight is waaaaaay less than other DPS options. And if you're going to play it as a gank rather than as a team-nuker, there are many many better options for that role.

Valkyrie Power Guard still and thing, works fine and bursts hard without dying too quickly. Good at taking annoying glass builds out.

Revenant took deserved nerfed and I'm honestly happy to have not seen a single Herald in my today's session because now you have to actually try to use Infuse Light properly and mobility was drastically reduced on Shiro. It's like finally there's some effort to be had.

[Saharo.5381]

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:Just pointing out that the statement is not true. Guardians, core, DH, FB, they all definitely still deal damage, although it may no longer be a top 3 meta pick.That's the issue. Doing okayish damage with the worse healthpool in the game fails as a recipe for a playable class. No one cares if guard is a "top 3 meta pick," but compared to other specs with better damage and health, it's simply not worth it to play at all. If that's your definition of balanced....

Also dude who's been playing guard since beta totally debunked your burst combo. You haven't proved that guard still has reliable damage, unless you define "reliable" as effective only on players who don't know what they're doing.