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3/23 PvP Balance


Cal Cohen.2358

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@Fashion Mage.3712 said:I mean I feel like the obvious solution is often wasted breath here, but instead of completely removing all healing power amulets and somehow thinking a mere sigil would be a suitable replacement, why not introduce new stat sets that have outgoing healing on them as a minor/major stat instead?

This is what I was going to say. Switch all amulets with major Healing Power into major Benevolence. And maybe add a minor healing power as part of the amulet if need be.

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Thank you for these changes! I had one concern reading this I wanted to bring up.

If you choose to nerf rune of the trapper, please remember that guardian is not the only class that uses it.

Back when sic'em sniper was running rampant, a change was made that converted ranger shouts into "commands" so that they couldn't interact with the rune of the soldier anymore. Although this helped with sic'em sniper in a small way, it also killed many other ranger builds that were no where near as busted. I hope that if you choose to nerf rune of the trapper because of the recent guardian epidemic that there won't be collateral damage.

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I appreciate that these kinds of posts are back. Showcasing what you plan to do is even better, because we can comment on it right now... so that said, STOP REMOVING AMULETS PLEASE. There are 4 amulets left in the gamemode with healing power on them, and you plan on removing 2.Saying you want support to be a viable choice is kind of ironic when there are no more amulets with concentration on them and now healing power is getting phased out aswell.

I also disagree with the burnguard nerfs, I would have gone with removing/reworking trapper rune and observe if burnguard can still make it... now I don't think any variant of burnguard is viable anymore. The meta was already power heavy, and it's not getting any diverse after this patch. Support and condi both got hit, there are plans to remove healing power amulets... we'll all end up playing demo amulet in 2 months. -.-

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@Cal Cohen.2358 said:from a balance philosophy point of view we don’t want AI-heavy builds to be a pillar of the PvP meta.

Does this only apply to non-ranger classes/necromancer specifically or does this mean that ranger will be forever in the gutter or do we get an complete rework with the expansion? Ranger is by design AI-heavy, so there is no space for ranger with this philosophy applied to all classes.

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Meanwhile, over in WvW...

@Cal Cohen.2358 said

Future Balance Cadence

The specific cadence for balance will always depend on our overall release schedule, but ideally it will be closer to every 4-6 weeks, while still having the opportunity to make minor tweaks outside of the regular balance update. The goal here is to have better flexibility to fix problems in a timely manner.1 year, 27 days later and we're still waiting.

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@"Justine.6351" said:I love the word "slight" being thrown around when talking about nerfs to rev.

5sec CD to 12sec CD.3sec duration to 2sec duration.25e to 10e.

I'd hate to see heavy nerfs :#

Because they actually are "slight" nerfs, at least to the meta builds they are targetting.

5-12cd nerf on PT does little as you don't have enough energy to spam this skill every 5s anyways. The overwhelming majority of the time, Rev only uses PT once per legend swap. This is why you get non-rev players like @"Leonidrex.5649" guessing PT was on a much higher CD than it actually is, as you legit almost never would use PT more often than to engage in a fight or mover accross the map. The change actually hurts core rev more than anything, as core revs F2 skill encourages less frequent swapping.

Infused light nerf mainly only panders to lower skilled players. Anyone remotely decent at the game has stopped attacking the Rev before the 3s is up on infused light anyways. I think this change might be good for high silver/ low gold ranked players, but in ATs and platinum ranked it does very little.

Nerfing charged mists is completely silly for reasons I mentioned above in my earlier post in this thread. Charged mists was not overpowered by any reasonable measure, as it required extremely precise energy management in order to proc anyways. Song is actually stronger in many ways, and every Renegade that was using CM will now just use Song - which actually ironically enough is a major spike-damage increase when swapping to shiro.

So yes, they are "slight" nerfs. But the nerfs are not slight nerfs for the reasons Anet believes they are slight nerfs. The real reason they are slight nerfs is because they are the wrong nerfs.

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Just a thought, but maybe healing power/support amulets are a lot stronger because damage is a lot weaker overall.

Maybe consider buffing the damage on some skills instead of nerfing some of the few that still actually do damage. Then supports would be absolutely fine if their healing was challenged by damage, and we wouldn't have to play with even less options.

Your game, your call though. Appreciate the communication.

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What worries are these quotes (only a few listed below)

At the very end of this post, we’ll also talk about areas we’re investigating for future updates.Eternal Armory in particular is a trait that we’re evaluating for a game-wide functional changeRune of the Trapper is notably unscathed, but it’s high on our watchlist and depending on the impact of today’s changes it may see some adjustment in the future.so we’re shaving a few pieces before looking at potential buffs to Tempest and Spellbreaker supports.Part of this decision is due to the general slowness of the meta right now, and as that shifts over time we’ll continue to evaluate the sweet spot for support builds.It’s a number that can come back up a little as we evaluate the impact and look at other potential changes.

So given ANET and CMC track record we can expect some of these '' future ''changes in about a year.

And lastly

To that end, we’re looking at removing Mender and Marshal amuletsAhh yes the standard fix instead of actually balancing.

Thanks ANET. grab yourself a cookie.

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Hello dear Anet.

I am still too unexperianced to give an opinion about the changes made, but what i can tell is that this are some pretty big changes for 1 patch in my opinion.

i would like to advocate for more small changes but more frequently and buffing the underperforming specs.

If you plan on increasing the damage generally, please dont make it too bursty, because bursty meta is very annoying and discouraging for new people.

Best regards and be healthy

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Good patch overall.

Though I feel the main issue with the current patching was overlooked, which I believe to be too much revive power in the current patching.

  • Instant revive skills needs to be reviewed. They are potent right now, honestly.
  • Traits linked to revive power need to be reviewed.
  • Normal general revive speed needs to be reviewed.
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>Makes damage the lowest it has ever been in the games history relative to health>Is surprised that the damage is so low it breaks the pace of the game.

:shockedpikachuface:

Like, you even realise the solution in your own post. The damage Grenade Holo had. The problem with Grenade holo wasnt that it was doing too much damage, it wasnt, it still was low by this games standard. Its that everyone elses damage was too low. You need to start restoring a lot of damage across a lot of classes. Oh and now that thieves mobility is no longer carrying a class that lacks any offensive, defensive or supportive capability, as evident by thief being almost entirely absent in the tournament (and completely absent in the finals), can we start seeing some thief damage and survivability buffs? Likewise Mesmer is still in a terrible state.

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@"Clownmug.8357" said:lol at 12 second CD on Phase Traversal. Thief players that complained about Infiltrator's Arrow please take note, this is what real suffering looks like.

Ah yes, "real suffering" is when your class is picked 4 times in the finals alone, as opposed to once in the top 4. By a team that didnt even make finals.

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could anet maybe try BUFFING once in a while?we hardly get any balance patches any more, ever since you ruined CCs and hammers last February.and when we do get balance its nothing but nerf this, nerf that.how about a BUFF for a change?how about instead of nerfing everything to the same useless level you buff up the useless things?

in the very same patch as you say "The general pace of the game right now is slower than we’d like to see." you nerf damage even further.guardian for example, burn is pretty much the only damage that they have left now,and you're taking that away while pointing out that the game is too slow...honestly?

enough with the nerfs.

there was a time when i used to get excited for balance patches, because i wanted to see what new and interesting builds the flurry of buffs would bring.now though i'm almost glad that balance patches never happen, because i dread seeing what Anet nerf to the ground this time.

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Killing support/tankier builds and amulets to solve the issue y'all created by nerfing damage down through the Earth's crust. This is smart and leads to lots of diverse gameplay options. Cancel insta rez signets next!! Then heal skills altogether!!

What I'm hearing is WE DONT KNOW HOW TO BALANCE SO WE'LL REMOVE AMULETS. This is healthy and will not drive more players from PVP.

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First of all, thanks for actually communicating, this was MUCH needed.

Onto cruxes and what I think feedback-wise;

Eternal Armory in particular is a trait that we’re evaluating for a game-wide functional change to better normalize the burning potential of all spirit weapons, but until then we’re reducing the duration to help mitigate the overperforming case with sword.

Make sure it doesn't die in PvE, CFB is in great spot. Don't ruin it. What you might look into is how overnerfed a lot of aspect of Firebrand are in PvP and how dull it is in WvW balance-wise, to be only used for stab/boons.

Last month we shaved down support Spellbreaker a bit more, which left Core Guardian as the premier support build in the meta. We consider the current state of Core Guardian overtuned relative to where we want support builds to be, and so we’re shaving a few pieces before looking at potential buffs to Tempest and Spellbreaker supports. Part of this decision is due to the general slowness of the meta right now, and as that shifts over time we’ll continue to evaluate the sweet spot for support builds.

You will never find a sweetspot by making all base boon/condition durations so short they run out before some attacks even go off. Reduce amounts, not durations; shorter boon durations just incentivize spamming abilities more, because they're individually less impactful. Make an ability grant you one boon instead of 3, but at least make it actually count. All these 1-2 seconds durations are so inconsequentially short it's legitimately hard to even care about them - which might explain why Firebrand is just bad right now, since you kinda did that to everything it does, and how virutally every trait you've "adjusted" in such way is now not worth playing with.

Also, I don't want to misconstrude, but;

We consider the current state of Core Guardian overtuned relative to where we want support builds to be,

So what DO you want support builds to be? Looking at the state of actual specs with support goals in mind (Druid, Firebrand, Tempest) and the fact that we're making a stabby warrior into a healer over these guys instead might be telling that what you're trying to achieve for supports is not what we're looking for in a support. Removing Mender will be a terrible idea, and we'll just revert to spam meta.

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@"Gogdarth.6741" said:

We consider the current state of Core Guardian overtuned relative to where we want support builds to be,

So what DO you want support builds to be? Looking at the state of actual specs with support goals in mind (Druid, Firebrand, Tempest) and the fact that we're making a stabby warrior into a healer over these guys instead might be telling that what you're trying to achieve for supports is not what we're looking for in a support. Removing Mender will be a terrible idea, and we'll just revert to spam meta.

Absolutely this. Why is your focus bringing support specs to ""where you want them to be"" if one of the flagship support builds you're measuring with isn't even supposed to be support? You killed the other support oriented specs so spectacularly that WARRIOR was the primary support of choice for a while. Warrior has ONE support oriented weapon and it's a freaking offhand, warhorn. Clearly your judgement on what to do with support specs is messed up.

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@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

To that end, we’re looking at removing Mender and Marshal amulets

STOP removing things and learn HOW TO BALANCE

This is what this community wanted, you all made your bed, now lay in it, and keep on with the amulet removal Anet, great job :+1: look into runes and sigils next, and maybe even weapons. This is why I said time and time again that the February patch was badly executed. They never go in-depth for class balancing to fix the root of the problem. They take the lazy route out. People whine about WvW being a unbalanced mess, well that's basically unfiltered GW2 PvP.

tQDIbUg.jpg

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