Throw Mine: Increased cooldown from 15 seconds to 30 seconds in WvW only.

[AustinTheFatOne.2980]

We have waited over what is it? 6 months now? The fact that you guys had the audacity to even put this in the patch notes is fucking ridiculous. It's like ANET is trying to upset WvW players and push them over the edge right now. #GIVEUSAPATCHBEFOREEODThe argument "Why would they release a patch before EOD just to have to re-balance" Doesn't even apply anymore, because they will have to re-balance PvP just the same. There is no excuse besides laziness and neglect.

[Zikory.6871]

I find it hilarious with all the boon ball hate lately, the only thing they nerf is a boon strip lmao

[Dawdler.8521]

See, they do care about fixing WvW through major changes.

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

I'm sure it was a typo. They meant to say PvP lol

[Coldtart.4785]

Of all the things that could've been nerfed on engi, why this? Med blaster, purity of purpose and sneak gyro are the parts of engi that make the game boring.

[XenesisII.1540]

Funny as hell, I bet they only did it because they were looking at it's damage instead.But they keep nerfing boon strips, 6 years and they still can't figure it out.We need this updated so badly now for wvw balance :lol:

[Stand The Wall.6987]

who exactly was waiting for this nerf?

[RisenHowl.2419]

Purity of purpose combined with nerfs to necro + spb strips has resulted in boon balls

Better nerf strips further, that way when the new elite spec drops with a 3 boon strip aoe AA the meta will shift.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I don't think I've seen a single engineer use this skill in WvW since I returned to this mode. It is so... baffling. For one, I don't know why this skill removes only 1 boon in PVE. The damage and knockback aren't high enough to justify it, so the mine is really bad at its only useful utility. In WvW that narrow explosion isn't enough to do significant boon removal against a zerg, or stop an onslaught with CC. Didn't matter if its cooldown was 15 seconds or 30. And really, what exactly is being saved by making the CD 30 seconds? Were zerg clashes being suppressed because of the dreaded 0-damage mines that engineers were laying? Is that extra 15 seconds what was needed to boon up and bowl over people?

[Dawdler.8521]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:It is so... baffling.Why? How is this baffling?

Its so typical Anet. Especially when it comes to the engineer. This is literally how we got purity of purpose, a rework no one requested or wanted. Or how the most important zerg stealth counter got deleted. Or how condi scrapper got deleted. Just throw random things at the wall and see what happens, seemingly for kicks, not for balance.

And people are still surprised at that.

[Cyninja.2954]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:I don't think I've seen a single engineer use this skill in WvW since I returned to this mode.

Yes, there are a ton of bad engineers in WvW. Says nothing about the skill though.

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:It is so... baffling. For one, I don't know why this skill removes only 1 boon in PVE. The damage and knockback aren't high enough to justify it, so the mine is really bad at its only useful utility.

Agreed, the skill is pretty useless in PvE.

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:In WvW that narrow explosion isn't enough to do significant boon removal against a zerg, or stop an onslaught with CC. Didn't matter if its cooldown was 15 seconds or 30. And really, what exactly is being saved by making the CD 30 seconds? Were zerg clashes being suppressed because of the dreaded 0-damage mines that engineers were laying? Is that extra 15 seconds what was needed to boon up and bowl over people?

More organized WvW squads have 1 engineer per group, at worst 1 per 2 groups, but that is already sub-optimal.

Throw Mine was on par with the old scepter 3 of necros. Mine Field is another 1 boon removed and easily placed while 2 squads are fighting. I'd say having 4 more boons removed AND potentially dispersing the enemy squad while putting ton more pressure on stability uptime is of high value (that kb strips 1 stab unrelated to the boon removal, so we are potentially up to 4 boons removed for 1 utility skill on a 15s cd with 1 more on the tool-belt skill).

Throw Mine was (and likely still is) considered one of the best utility skills to bring on support engi, even more currently while Bulwark Gyro is bugged. There is a reason why most (I believe all currently) top tier GvG guilds run the skill (unless explicitly forbidding it at the start of fights).

Now, does 1 engineer bringing Throw Mine tip the scales of battle? Probably as much as 1 necromancer bringing the old scepter 3. Squads run more of both classes though right?

My personal guess is: the developers have metrics as to how many boons are removed by different skills. Which made this skill light up on their radar (in this case not total, but per second), given it is not being run by that many players. Which in turn, as explained, shows that the boon removal per second, was higher than intended by the developers.

It is amusing to see people's reaction to this change though.

EDIT:and just to be clear, I'm not saying I agree with even more boon removal getting nerfed. That's a discussion onto its self. Just saying: Throw Mine had it coming going by what other boon removal skills have faced. The skill was pretty much BiS for squad scrappers after Purge Gyro and Elixir Gun.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

it (the skill on engis) got some attention lately, and it honestly was a understandable nerf. quite fine with it tho, scrapper doesn't need to do boonstrip anyways.

but yeah, i knew the streamers writing "big Wvw patch" was a meme only thaha. i was kinda surprised that there was any change done in Wvw. it has no real impact on much, but they funnily really hit a skill that was used or tried out lately.

dpswise, they'd have to look on guardian tho. and how about finally buffs to things, instead of only nerfs.

[AustinTheFatOne.2980]

FFS, you guys are completely missing the point. IT'S BEEN OVER 6 MONTHS AND THIS IS THE "LARGEST CHANGE" THEY HAVE MADE SO FAR.

[Cyninja.2954]

@"AustinTheFatOne.2980" said:kitten, you guys are completely missing the point. IT'S BEEN OVER 6 MONTHS AND THIS IS THE "LARGEST CHANGE" THEY HAVE MADE SO FAR.

Honestly, I could have told you 6 months ago (even longer ago as far back as shortly after the expansion announcement) we won't see any more big balance patches before the expansion. In fact, that's what I told all my WvW and PvE guildies. There is 0 reason to invest in balance when a new set of elite specializations needs implementation and with that a ton of balance to all skills, traits, etc. Outside of some band-aid fixes here and there.

The next balance patch we will see will be the one before the expansion setting things up for new elites. If at all. Anyone expecting anything else has not been paying attention.

It's all hands on deck for the expansion, and those resources required to figure out balance stuff are being used to design new elites. Harsh reality but knowing helps keeping expectations in check.

[bigo.9037]

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@"AustinTheFatOne.2980" said:kitten, you guys are completely missing the point. IT'S BEEN OVER 6 MONTHS AND THIS IS THE "LARGEST CHANGE" THEY HAVE MADE SO FAR.

Honestly, I could have told you 6 months ago (even longer ago as far back as shortly after the expansion announcement) we won't see any more big balance patches before the expansion. In fact, that's what I told all my WvW and PvE guildies. There is 0 reason to invest in balance when a new set of elite specializations needs implementation and with that a ton of balance to all skills, traits, etc. Outside of some band-aid fixes here and there.

The next balance patch we will see will be the one before the expansion setting things up for new elites. If at all. Anyone expecting anything else has not been paying attention.

It's all hands on deck for the expansion, and those resources required to figure out balance stuff are being used to design new elites. Harsh reality but knowing helps keeping expectations in check.

just beg to god they don’t mess up or over nerf current specs in favor of new ones like they have before. i enjoy my current spec and i have doubts i’ll start maining whichever new spec comes along for my class. ofc they should still revise core and hot specs but we all know that will never happen.

honestly instead of new elite specs i’d rather have them put a lot of effort into revamping hot specs so they can have a purpose again instead of most specs just being shitter versions of pof. and then a new class or something idk.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

Do you really want sPvP balance in WvW?

Ever since the Feb balance patch last year, most of the balance changes have actually made sPvP worse, as Anets balance method since then has been largely to increase cooldowns and resource costs instead of actually fixing problems at their root cause. There are a greater number of viable builds and counter strategies in WvW right now than sPvP for this reason, which was not the case a couple years ago.

If anything the lack of WvW being touched is a good thing.

[XenesisII.1540]

@bigo.9037 said:honestly instead of new elite specs i’d rather have them put a lot of effort into revamping hot specs so they can have a purpose again instead of most specs just being kitten versions of pof. and then a new class or something idk.

Ummmm, they've already put in work to help a lot of the hot specs get on level with pof specs.

Tempest - good roamer, small group, zergReaper - good roamer, small group, zergScrapper - good roamer, small group, zergDragonhunter - good roamer, small group, zergHerald - ok roamer, good small group, zergDaredevil - good roamer, small group, ok zergDruid - good roamer, small group, could use some help with zerg supportChrono - ok roamer, good small group, you only need like one in a zerg, mesmer utility could probably use workBerserker - err good for small group? could use help

Core specs could actually use more help than the elite specs, but of course you buff those and you buff the elite ones because of shared trait lines (kind of a mistake).

But anyways, I'd rather new specs, even if they'll be unbalanced for a while, cause 4 years since PoF classes, 6 years since HoT classes, 9 years since core, a lot of specs and this boon tank meta have gotten quite stale.

[SWI.4127]

@bigo.9037 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@AustinTheFatOne.2980 said:

honestly instead of new elite specs i’d rather have them put a lot of effort into revamping hot specs so they can have a purpose again instead of most specs just being kitten versions of pof. and then a new class or something idk.

If we're talking about zerg builds here, HoT specs are arguably more widely used than PoF specs. You have Firebrand, Spellbreaker, and Scourge used as far as PoF goes. Whereas Chrono, Scrapper, Tempest, Herald, DH are all used quite often. What exactly do you want them to buff? Druid?

[Gotejjeken.1267]

@SWI.4127 said:

@bigo.9037 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

@AustinTheFatOne.2980 said:

honestly instead of new elite specs i’d rather have them put a lot of effort into revamping hot specs so they can have a purpose again instead of most specs just being kitten versions of pof. and then a new class or something idk.

If we're talking about zerg builds here, HoT specs are arguably more widely used than PoF specs. You have Firebrand, Spellbreaker, and Scourge used as far as PoF goes. Whereas Chrono, Scrapper, Tempest, Herald, DH are all used quite often. What exactly do you want them to buff? Druid?

Yes, buff Druid

[Jaruselka.5943]

Anet taking another dump on core engie again. What else is new?

[Bcky.7904]

What make people becoming handicap is runes of durability, bring back 15s mine cd thank you

[Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365]

i guess the reason why the throw mine spiked in their algorithm is bcs it became meta among alot gvg guilds on eu. dunno about na tho

[bambi.6214]

@Jaruselka.5943 said:Anet taking another dump on core engie again. What else is new?

Scrapper overperforming in WvW? Oh boy better nerf core engi! Too many of them around!

[VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:I don't think I've seen a single engineer use this skill in WvW since I returned to this mode. It is so... baffling. For one, I don't know why this skill removes only 1 boon in PVE. The damage and knockback aren't high enough to justify it, so the mine is really bad at its only useful utility. In WvW that narrow explosion isn't enough to do significant boon removal against a zerg, or stop an onslaught with CC. Didn't matter if its cooldown was 15 seconds or 30. And really, what exactly is being saved by making the CD 30 seconds? Were zerg clashes being suppressed because of the dreaded 0-damage mines that engineers were laying? Is that extra 15 seconds what was needed to boon up and bowl over people?

you don't play against other guilds, I guess? Some guilds are very heavily using this skill and it takes all the fun out of a fight.

The increase of cooldown while welcome was way too low.

[Kodama.6453]

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:I don't think I've seen a single engineer use this skill in WvW since I returned to this mode. It is so... baffling. For one, I don't know why this skill removes only 1 boon in PVE. The damage and knockback aren't high enough to justify it, so the mine is really bad at its only useful utility. In WvW that narrow explosion isn't enough to do significant boon removal against a zerg, or stop an onslaught with CC. Didn't matter if its cooldown was 15 seconds or 30. And really, what exactly is being saved by making the CD 30 seconds? Were zerg clashes being suppressed because of the dreaded 0-damage mines that engineers were laying? Is that extra 15 seconds what was needed to boon up and bowl over people?

you don't play against other guilds, I guess? Some guilds are very heavily using this skill and it takes all the fun out of a fight.

The increase of cooldown while welcome was way too low.

Too low? Wtf, literally doubling the cooldown of this skill is too low for you?