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Friendly Reminder


Nimon.7840

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Dear Anet,this is just a friendly reminder, that there's not only one gamemode in guildwars 2 that needs balancing.

PVE: just look at this: https://gw2raidleague.com/category/raidleague/and what classes are played/overstacked and what classes have barely any presence. For example its extremely annoying to basically see only pink comps for all bosses.I know that the best groups will always play the best dps class, but its a bit annoying to see only pink for months.A meta shift every half a year regarding dps classes would be appreciated. Especially when there's no new on new raid wings or other instanced content. it really gets stale to play the same bosses over and over again, with the same comps.In spvp you do changes to change what classes are played, and that basically every class sees some play in different seasons. - Why not do the same for pve?

WvW: i'm pretty sure there is a dev discord where balance issues are pointed out. For example: i heard from various sources that engi should be nerfed soon.

Last wvw balance changes were on 1st of december 2020.Last pve balance changes happened on 7th of july 2020

i know you have a lot to do with the expansion coming up this year and i really appreciate your work.but could you please throw a bone to the pve and wvw players?you have the time to do two consecutive patches for spvp but theres absolutely no time for pve and wvw? i cant believe that.

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Lol at least for PvE you guys have LS new maps new currency content etc. Aside from desert boarderland there hasn't been updates on Eternal Battleground or the Alpine Maps. As well as the updates on WvW are miniscule and non existent. The reason why PvE has more people then PvP and WvW combined is because most have left either for PvE or quit the game.

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@"Salt Mode.3780" said:Lol at least for PvE you guys have LS new maps new currency content etc. Aside from desert boarderland there hasn't been updates on Eternal Battleground or the Alpine Maps. As well as the updates on WvW are miniscule and non existent. The reason why PvE has more people then PvP and WvW combined is because most have left either for PvE or quit the game.

But the problem is. Not every "pve player" cares about story. I absolutely dont care about living world patches. Yes I play them once, but I don't chase after all these achievements.Also there haven't been new maps with the last few releases. And I don't think, that doing this and that event 5k times, is good achievement design.

I'm a player that has fun with creating new builds (especially WvW) and getting the new meta build for some classes, before snowcrows update their website (before there is vods on reddit).

So my main content right now is absolutely dead.No meaningful patches for WvW that actually change things to create new roaming and gimmicky Zerg/guild builds.

I'm in a state, well your name says it. Even though I would call it tilt mode.

  • sitting here, frustrated about the game, waiting for the new especs to go absolutely crazy with new builds

But I believe that the xpac may be coming in August to October, so it's a long time of thirst.

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@Salt Mode.3780 said:What im saying is there are new pve content that is still being pumped out new maps etc regardless while WvW and SPvP had nothing at the times PvE did. This includes a new fractal even tho it is dated now.

yes i did understand that. but it seems like you didnt understand, that this is about balancing

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I am pretty confident that when the new Expansion launches there will be a massive overhaul for PvE professions. I am of the belief that they release the PvE balance patch before the actual expansion by a few weeks. I get that this is not 'right now' when we all want it but, I can forgive them not providing PvE updates knowing that they are doing a PvE overhaul AND adding new Elites later this year.

The question that might be a better ask is, "As PvP keeps getting incremental updates to profession balance, will PvP get an overhaul with EoD release?"

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@"Mungo Zen.9364" said:I am pretty confident that when the new Expansion launches there will be a massive overhaul for PvE professions. I am of the belief that they release the PvE balance patch before the actual expansion by a few weeks. I get that this is not 'right now' when we all want it but, I can forgive them not providing PvE updates knowing that they are doing a PvE overhaul AND adding new Elites later this year.

The question that might be a better ask is, "As PvP keeps getting incremental updates to profession balance, will PvP get an overhaul with EoD release?"

I'm under the same assumption as you here. I think there will be an overhaul and with some of the previous changes there do seem to be clues as to the direction the elite specs will be heading. I don't keep an eye on every detail of every profession but I do keep an eye on every detail of the necromancer profession and its changes. Primarily Blood bank and Signet of Undeath and how the new(ish) life sacrifice mechanic seems to work with Barrier that it seems to somewhat suggest a Glassy life sacrifice spec is in the necromancer's future. Of course, that's just my speculation on minimal changes and I could very much be wrong.

As for balance right now, its kinda a shame really. PvE does need something to really shake it up. A new Stat combination at the very least would be nice as that does occasionally open up new build possibilities and variants that weren't viable before.

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@Lily.1935 said:

@"Mungo Zen.9364" said:I am pretty confident that when the new Expansion launches there will be a massive overhaul for PvE professions. I am of the belief that they release the PvE balance patch before the actual expansion by a few weeks. I get that this is not 'right now' when we all want it but, I can forgive them not providing PvE updates knowing that they are doing a PvE overhaul AND adding new Elites later this year.

The question that might be a better ask is, "As PvP keeps getting incremental updates to profession balance, will PvP get an overhaul with EoD release?"

I'm under the same assumption as you here. I think there will be an overhaul and with some of the previous changes there do seem to be clues as to the direction the elite specs will be heading. I don't keep an eye on every detail of every profession but I do keep an eye on every detail of the necromancer profession and its changes. Primarily Blood bank and Signet of Undeath and how the new(ish) life sacrifice mechanic seems to work with Barrier that it seems to somewhat suggest a Glassy life sacrifice spec is in the necromancer's future. Of course, that's just my speculation on minimal changes and I could very much be wrong.

As for balance right now, its kinda a shame really. PvE does need something to really shake it up. A new Stat combination at the very least would be nice as that does occasionally open up new build possibilities and variants that weren't viable before.

Why do Blood Bank and Signet of Undeath make you think that they will be a glassy build?

The changes to Signet of Vampirism and Blood Bank made me think that it is quite the opposite: a bruiser based on lifesteal mechanics.It would give Blood Bank some more synergy, since lifesteal over your total health would give you barrier to become even tankier. Signet of Vampirism could be a great healing skill for a bruiser who wants to be in the thick of the battle, etc.

But I also keep an eye on my main profession when it comes to these changes. Stuff like the changes to Soothing Detonations and Overshield let me think that our next elite spec might finally be a primary support with condition damage on the side, like scourge and firebrand have been.The trait Soothing Detonations could suggest that the class mechanic will work by enhancing our toolbelt with more skills, which could let us pump out more healing for our allies.

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@Lily.1935 said:

@"Mungo Zen.9364" said:I am pretty confident that when the new Expansion launches there will be a massive overhaul for PvE professions. I am of the belief that they release the PvE balance patch before the actual expansion by a few weeks. I get that this is not 'right now' when we all want it but, I can forgive them not providing PvE updates knowing that they are doing a PvE overhaul AND adding new Elites later this year.

The question that might be a better ask is, "As PvP keeps getting incremental updates to profession balance, will PvP get an overhaul with EoD release?"

I'm under the same assumption as you here. I think there will be an overhaul

As much as I think there will be some balance patch before eod in preperation for new especs, I doubt it will be any huge/groundbreaking "pve overhaul". Not sure why there suddenly need to be one, but lets see :D

  • Confused 1
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@Nimon.7840 said:

@Salt Mode.3780 said:What im saying is there are new pve content that is still being pumped out new maps etc regardless while WvW and SPvP had nothing at the times PvE did. This includes a new fractal even tho it is dated now.

yes i did understand that. but it seems like you didnt understand, that this is about balancing

and what im telling you is they work on pve more then they do on pvp and wvw

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@Lily.1935 said:

@"Mungo Zen.9364" said:I am pretty confident that when the new Expansion launches there will be a massive overhaul for PvE professions. I am of the belief that they release the PvE balance patch before the actual expansion by a few weeks. I get that this is not 'right now' when we all want it but, I can forgive them not providing PvE updates knowing that they are doing a PvE overhaul AND adding new Elites later this year.

The question that might be a better ask is, "As PvP keeps getting incremental updates to profession balance, will PvP get an overhaul with EoD release?"

I'm under the same assumption as you here. I think there will be an overhaul and with some of the previous changes there do seem to be clues as to the direction the elite specs will be heading. I don't keep an eye on every detail of every profession but I do keep an eye on every detail of the necromancer profession and its changes. Primarily Blood bank and Signet of Undeath and how the new(ish) life sacrifice mechanic seems to work with Barrier that it seems to somewhat suggest a Glassy life sacrifice spec is in the necromancer's future. Of course, that's just my speculation on minimal changes and I could very much be wrong.

As for balance right now, its kinda a shame really. PvE does need something to really shake it up. A new Stat combination at the very least would be nice as that does occasionally open up new build possibilities and variants that weren't viable before.

Power/Expertise/Precision/Ferocity or Power/Expertise/Precision or Power/Expertise/Ferocity would all be very nice additions to PvP/WvW

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@Kodama.6453 said:

@"Mungo Zen.9364" said:I am pretty confident that when the new Expansion launches there will be a massive overhaul for PvE professions. I am of the belief that they release the PvE balance patch before the actual expansion by a few weeks. I get that this is not 'right now' when we all want it but, I can forgive them not providing PvE updates knowing that they are doing a PvE overhaul AND adding new Elites later this year.

The question that might be a better ask is, "As PvP keeps getting incremental updates to profession balance, will PvP get an overhaul with EoD release?"

I'm under the same assumption as you here. I think there will be an overhaul and with some of the previous changes there do seem to be clues as to the direction the elite specs will be heading. I don't keep an eye on every detail of every profession but I do keep an eye on every detail of the necromancer profession and its changes. Primarily Blood bank and Signet of Undeath and how the new(ish) life sacrifice mechanic seems to work with Barrier that it seems to somewhat suggest a Glassy life sacrifice spec is in the necromancer's future. Of course, that's just my speculation on minimal changes and I could very much be wrong.

As for balance right now, its kinda a shame really. PvE does need something to really shake it up. A new Stat combination at the very least would be nice as that does occasionally open up new build possibilities and variants that weren't viable before.

Why do Blood Bank and Signet of Undeath make you think that they will be a glassy build?

The changes to Signet of Vampirism and Blood Bank made me think that it is quite the opposite: a bruiser based on lifesteal mechanics.It would give Blood Bank some more synergy, since lifesteal over your total health would give you barrier to become even tankier. Signet of Vampirism could be a great healing skill for a bruiser who wants to be in the thick of the battle, etc.

But I also keep an eye on my main profession when it comes to these changes. Stuff like the changes to Soothing Detonations and Overshield let me think that our next elite spec might finally be a primary support with condition damage on the side, like scourge and firebrand have been.The trait Soothing Detonations could suggest that the class mechanic will work by enhancing our toolbelt with more skills, which could let us pump out more healing for our allies.

There's an interesting interaction with Life sacrifice and Barrier. Barrier can be used to pay for the cost of Signet of Undeath. Signet of undeath's activation is a non-synergy with tanking and I believe its an Experiment for life sacrifice, which life stealing does play into as its often used to offset the extreme costs. Barrier in this case is being used in that way. Why would we need more bulkiness when the necromancer is far far too bulky already. It begins to make sense if arena net wants it to synergies with Scholar runes and if the necromancer elite spec is constantly sacrificing health in order to do that they can't benefit from it. Its possible the necromancer will gain a trait that benefits from health percentage like that as well. Similar to glasscannon on Engineer.

The evidence looks to be giving them a means to stay alive with the health sacrifice, not to make a bulkly spec even bulkier. That interpretation you're describing almost sounds too me like that guy dumping water over himself while submerged in water. Its very very not needed. Especially how much it'd tread on Reaper's top line.

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@"Lily.1935" said:

There's an interesting interaction with Life sacrifice and Barrier. Barrier can be used to pay for the cost of Signet of Undeath. Signet of undeath's activation is a non-synergy with tanking and I believe its an Experiment for life sacrifice, which life stealing does play into as its often used to offset the extreme costs. Barrier in this case is being used in that way. Why would we need more bulkiness when the necromancer is far far too bulky already. It begins to make sense if arena net wants it to synergies with Scholar runes and if the necromancer elite spec is constantly sacrificing health in order to do that they can't benefit from it. Its possible the necromancer will gain a trait that benefits from health percentage like that as well. Similar to glasscannon on Engineer.

The evidence looks to be giving them a means to stay alive with the health sacrifice, not to make a bulkly spec even bulkier. That interpretation you're describing almost sounds too me like that guy dumping water over himself while submerged in water. Its very very not needed. Especially how much it'd tread on Reaper's top line.

I don't think that life sacrifice is "non-synergy with tanking". Bulwark gyro, a skill from a tank spec (scrapper), is also kinda sacrificing health. You are granting your allies a damage reduction, but you will suffer that damage yourself in return.Life sacrifice actually makes more sense on a bruiser that has alot of lifesteal, in my opinion, since such a spec could easily compensate the damage by healing back up again.

But if it really should turn out to be a glasscannon, what do you expect this class to be when it comes to their role? DPS? I kinda doubt that necromancer will get a dps spec that deals more damage than reaper.... In my opinion, reaper should stay as necromancer's prime dps spec.

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@Salt Mode.3780 said:

@Salt Mode.3780 said:What im saying is there are new pve content that is still being pumped out new maps etc regardless while WvW and SPvP had nothing at the times PvE did. This includes a new fractal even tho it is dated now.

yes i did understand that. but it seems like you didnt understand, that this is about balancing

and what im telling you is they work on pve more then they do on pvp and wvw

Content wise maybe. Balancing, no.

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@Kodama.6453 said:

@"Lily.1935" said:

There's an interesting interaction with Life sacrifice and Barrier. Barrier can be used to pay for the cost of Signet of Undeath. Signet of undeath's activation is a non-synergy with tanking and I believe its an Experiment for life sacrifice, which life stealing does play into as its often used to offset the extreme costs. Barrier in this case is being used in that way. Why would we need more bulkiness when the necromancer is far far too bulky already. It begins to make sense if arena net wants it to synergies with Scholar runes and if the necromancer elite spec is constantly sacrificing health in order to do that they can't benefit from it. Its possible the necromancer will gain a trait that benefits from health percentage like that as well. Similar to glasscannon on Engineer.

The evidence looks to be giving them a means to stay alive with the health sacrifice, not to make a bulkly spec even bulkier. That interpretation you're describing almost sounds too me like that guy dumping water over himself while submerged in water. Its very very not needed. Especially how much it'd tread on Reaper's top line.

I don't think that life sacrifice is "non-synergy with tanking". Bulwark gyro, a skill from a tank spec (scrapper), is also kinda sacrificing health. You are granting your allies a damage reduction, but you will suffer that damage yourself in return.Life sacrifice actually makes more sense on a bruiser that has alot of lifesteal, in my opinion, since such a spec could easily compensate the damage by healing back up again.

But if it really should turn out to be a glasscannon, what do you expect this class to be when it comes to their role? DPS? I kinda doubt that necromancer will get a dps spec that deals more damage than reaper.... In my opinion, reaper should stay as necromancer's prime dps spec.

Reaper is already a bruiser. And we don't have a solid DPS spec. Reaper is a low damage cap spec because its so tanky. Scourge is low damage because... well.. uhh.. Because.. umm. Actually I'm not sure why its low damage, there's really no excuse for that one. We don't have a strong DPS. But if we look at the roles necromancer used to play in GW1 Offensive support or utility support was perhaps their most well known role after Minion master. Blood magic was used to fuel your allies offense. Rarely could necromancer put out a large chunk of damage on its own and when it could it was nearly or was suicide to do so.

Some historic builds include Blood is Power necromancer or Battery for short. It was a necromancer build that relied on turbo charging ally's energy regen in order to keep the healer's, damage dealer's and controller's going sacrificing large chunks of their health.

Next we have the Orders Necromancer. Originally using Order of Vampirism and Order of Pain(which no longer synergize with each other) this classic build would buff allies physical damage as well as provide them with life stealing further buffing them. They'd also grant adrenaline to allies allowing them to use their skills more frequently. GW2 doesn't have adrenaline, not in the way GW1 did. Its no longer a viable build but in its day it was potent.

Another build we see is Suicide bomber. A life sacrifice build designed to capture points in Jade quarry. A necromancer would take assassin as their secondary and port into the middle of a point and begin using their sacrifice skills literally dropping themselves to 0 HP and causing enough damage that everyone on that point would be wiped. This build also got nerfed into nonexistence.

The next build is the most recent due to the addition of new elite skills. Soul Taker builds now use either a scythe or daggers in order to trigger its extra damage with similar tools to the Suicide bomber build to cause massive damage to kill all the foes. Often you get under 20% health with this build and its very very tricky to use without killing yourself. its an extremely high damage build but not necromancer's highest damaging build.

Now there's something all of these builds have in common. They are the most fragile builds in all of GW1. NONE of them can even come close to being a bruiser or a tank. It is impossible by the very nature of how they function. Maybe there's a farm build I don't know about, but I doubt it with the way life loss and sacrifice works in that game. Its just not viable to tank on those.

But we can also look to other games too. Diablo III has a Blood spear and Blood Nova build and both those builds are notoriously frail. Both have a massive amount of health recovery but if they're struck they can loose momentum. I've played both although I haven't gotten the opportunity to play the Corpse explosion build which i'm sure also probably has a health sacrifice variant or is one itself, and how all of those builds work is they are glasscannon DPS builds. Necromancer does have a Tank build or two in D3, however they're not health sacrifice builds. They specifically avoid that sort of skill.

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@Lily.1935 said:Reaper is already a bruiser. And we don't have a solid DPS spec. Reaper is a low damage cap spec because its so tanky. Scourge is low damage because... well.. uhh.. Because.. umm. Actually I'm not sure why its low damage, there's really no excuse for that one. We don't have a strong DPS. But if we look at the roles necromancer used to play in GW1 Offensive support or utility support was perhaps their most well known role after Minion master. Blood magic was used to fuel your allies offense. Rarely could necromancer put out a large chunk of damage on its own and when it could it was nearly or was suicide to do so.

Yeah, we had that discussion before. I disagree with your classification of reaper as a bruiser.

If reaper has stayed the same over the years like their initial design, I would have agreed with you that they are filling the bruiser playstyle for necromancer. But with the changes made to it from Anet over the years, I think it is intended as the DPS option instead (which, btw, makes way more sense thematically. If I imagine a reaper wielding a scythe, I would assume that they are supposed to be a damage machine, not some tanky bruiser).

I mentioned it in previous discussions before: changes like you no longer taking reduced damage from chilled foes, but increasing your own damage on them instead. Or the many offensive boni you get from the reaper trait line like bonus critical strike chance, quickness, ferocity, etc.

That reaper is dealing less damage than other dps elite specs does not mean that it is not one of them.They deal less damage because they have more natural tankiness than other classes, but that is a general design of the necromancer. They all have the shroud mechanic, which ultimately always is a tanky mechanic, even if interpreted differently (like how scourge replaced the actual shroud with barrier).

But we can also look to other games too. Diablo III has a Blood spear and Blood Nova build and both those builds are notoriously frail. Both have a massive amount of health recovery but if they're struck they can loose momentum. I've played both although I haven't gotten the opportunity to play the Corpse explosion build which i'm sure also probably has a health sacrifice variant or is one itself, and how all of those builds work is they are glasscannon DPS builds. Necromancer does have a Tank build or two in D3, however they're not health sacrifice builds. They specifically avoid that sort of skill.

This is one aspect I want to discuss as well. This game may have interpreted the blood thematic in this way, but the blood thematic of the necromancer in guild wars 2 is interpreted differently.

Look at the skills and traits we have so far which are associated with blood.Dagger is the weapon which has the deepest thematical connection to this, yet it is probably the most bruiser-ish weapon on core necromancer. Yes, it bleeds yourself, but this is almost no harm at all, meanwhile it can heal for way more than it is dealing as bleeding damage to you.Blood magic as a trait line is the exact opposite of what you describe, it is about healing allies and yourself, while also providing other supportive features.

If I think about blood magic in guild wars 2, then I think about a draintank. Not a fragile suicide bomber.I understand that you want to see these old themes from guild wars 1 return, but guild wars 2 is a different game which interpreted quite alot of stuff in a way different way than the first game did. Blood magic, in my opinion, is one of these.

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@Kodama.6453 said:

@Lily.1935 said:Reaper is already a bruiser. And we don't have a solid DPS spec. Reaper is a low damage cap spec because its so tanky. Scourge is low damage because... well.. uhh.. Because.. umm. Actually I'm not sure why its low damage, there's really no excuse for that one. We don't have a strong DPS. But if we look at the roles necromancer used to play in GW1 Offensive support or utility support was perhaps their most well known role after Minion master. Blood magic was used to fuel your allies offense. Rarely could necromancer put out a large chunk of damage on its own and when it could it was nearly or was suicide to do so.

Yeah, we had that discussion before. I disagree with your classification of reaper as a bruiser.

If reaper has stayed the same over the years like their initial design, I would have agreed with you that they are filling the bruiser playstyle for necromancer. But with the changes made to it from Anet over the years, I think it is intended as the DPS option instead (which, btw, makes way more sense thematically. If I imagine a reaper wielding a scythe, I would assume that they are supposed to be a damage machine, not some tanky bruiser).

I mentioned it in previous discussions before: changes like you no longer taking reduced damage from chilled foes, but increasing your own damage on them instead. Or the many offensive boni you get from the reaper trait line like bonus critical strike chance, quickness, ferocity, etc.

That reaper is dealing less damage than other dps elite specs does not mean that it is not one of them.They deal less damage because they have more natural tankiness than other classes, but that is a general design of the necromancer. They all have the shroud mechanic, which ultimately always is a tanky mechanic, even if interpreted differently (like how scourge replaced the actual shroud with barrier).

But we can also look to other games too. Diablo III has a Blood spear and Blood Nova build and both those builds are notoriously frail. Both have a massive amount of health recovery but if they're struck they can loose momentum. I've played both although I haven't gotten the opportunity to play the Corpse explosion build which i'm sure also probably has a health sacrifice variant or is one itself, and how all of those builds work is they are glasscannon DPS builds. Necromancer does have a Tank build or two in D3, however they're not health sacrifice builds. They specifically avoid that sort of skill.

This is one aspect I want to discuss as well. This game may have interpreted the blood thematic in this way, but the blood thematic of the necromancer
in guild wars 2
is interpreted differently.

Look at the skills and traits we have so far which are associated with blood.Dagger is the weapon which has the deepest thematical connection to this, yet it is probably the most bruiser-ish weapon on core necromancer. Yes, it bleeds yourself, but this is almost no harm at all, meanwhile it can heal for way more than it is dealing as bleeding damage to you.Blood magic as a trait line is the exact opposite of what you describe, it is about healing allies
and yourself
, while also providing other supportive features.

If I think about blood magic in guild wars 2, then I think about a draintank. Not a fragile suicide bomber.I understand that you want to see these old themes from guild wars 1 return, but guild wars 2 is a different game which interpreted quite alot of stuff in a way different way than the first game did. Blood magic, in my opinion, is one of these.

The GW1 blood magic provided healing for allies as well. Not just in the form of life stealing. And this idea that we can't ever look to other games to try and understand the game we're playing, especially in the same genre of game is extremely nieve in terms of game design. Arena net themselves use a table top RPG game to test out their raid concepts first. If you want to talk radically different, a table top game is far more different than a Video game. Why they do it is because the mechanics are on display for them to more easily view than behind the scenes. We can do the same thing with Diablo, Guild wars 2, Guild wars 1, Final Fantasy 14, World of Warcraft. The laws that governs the themes and how they're balanced and used is very similar. All art is derivative of something else and all video games are derivative of earlier, simpler games.

As for reaper. They are still a bruiser. You seem to think Brusier isn't a DPS, but it is. Reaper has multiple damage reduction skills and recovery traits. They do well against attrition and hit hard. That is what a bruiser does. Everything a bruiser is reaper fills.

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Just for kicks, my krewe has been attempting to concoct a capable Power DPS option for core Necromancer, believing that present day capability and knowledge could compensate for the profession's shortcomings. Results have been thus far... according to pre-assessments (lacking).

EDIT: For the record, I'm only accounting for PvE.

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@KidRoleplay.3615 said:Just for kicks, my krewe has been attempting to concoct a capable Power DPS option for core Necromancer, believing that present day capability and knowledge could compensate for the profession's shortcomings. Results have been thus far... according to pre-assessments (lacking).

The build to compare it to, reaper, has a lot of power in the reaper shroud kit. And Death shroud just doesn't cut it. The strongest attack you can do with the highest possible DPS is life blast last I checked and it just doesn't compare to reaper's shroud.

Now this could be shifted if core had access to utility skills in shroud while reaper didn't, then we would have something to really play with in terms of potential. But yeah, it's going to lag pretty far behind as of now.

I've done tests myself. The best I could come up with for core necromancer was a Viper's flash shroud build. Just pop into shroud, burst the enter skills and weapon swap sigils and drop out. The issue is it's a burst of damage with little to follow it up so its only really okay in open world maps. And even there its inferior to scourge in places like Drizzlewood which was one of the testing grounds for core necromancer.

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For condi scourge to be stronger in PVE relative to other condi builds averaging a few thousand DPS higher (including condi shortbow soulbeast which is ranged similar to scourge), several things need to happen:

  1. the punishment skills need to do more when targets don't have boons in PvE
  2. the boon corrupts should do 100 defiance bar damage equivalent to 1s fear (that's what stability corrupts into ; a defiance bar is a PvE substitute for stability) , which would in turn proc Insidious Disruption if traited
  3. PvE enemies should have boons worth corrupting for defensive / offensive value , we can see this in DRMs where the enemies' quickness + might converts to slow and weakness which mitigates damage immensely
  4. Sadistic Searing needs a better PvE recharge reduction or more PvE burn stacks , if you're running one or even four punishment skills it is extremely underwhelming. Dessicate should be competitive with Blood is Power or better. Ghastly Breach already is split between PvE and competitive, so just reduce cooldown further.
  5. an indirect way of supporting hybrid scourges would be to increase damage and heal scaling on vampiric presence while in shroud for PvE, see Predator's Cunning trait on soulbeast or Soulcleave summit

Reaper could use a UI update: there's no reason why utilities could not show cooldowns but grayed out. The ease of use is a primary draw for people and ultimately the biggest liability is life force when there are no adds.

Thief's ability to provide quickness could be PVE game-wide rather than a few raids by putting it into the trait Bountiful Theft (so it's not just vigor) or Thrill of the Crime, allowing a full Diviner Thief to supply quickness. The main thing is there isn't a strong condi build so it should be able to provide quickness when power isn't a strong or extremely viable option.

Top end damage (i.e. the chrono that everyone always hates on) could be adjusted by lowering the danger time damage bonus to around 5 or 7%. Currently a solo chrono would only manage a typical ~36K DPS. This would only affect stacked chrono comps , similar to the "Feel my Wrath" change on DH. Lowering the vulnerability output on sword of justice would also even out the disparities in actual scenarios.

Speaking of stacking, firebrands should probably have mantra of solace looked at. The quickness on the trait could be longer (or tacked on to mantra of potence) and then the recharge increased (along with a corresponding heal increase in all modes) as stacking firebrands means you have high amounts of aegis without running shield, utilities, or mace.

Right now One Wolf Pack in fractals, spirits in raids, and banners are a staple. So you would look at classes that don't have major DPS , quickness/alac generation, or boon rips that can keep up with actual frequent boon generation rather than fractal instabilities like "No Pain no Gain" which are every 20s. I'd say other than these few points we aren't in a horrible spot PvE-wise.

For PVP and WVW, reaper is in a better spot than it was before honestly.

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I would like to see some updates to a few playstyles for PvE.

Turrets engineerHealer ScrapperHealer TempestHealer scourgeCore necromancer(Mostly Death Shroud)Condi ScourgeCore RangerCore EngineerCore thiefCore ElementalistMinion Master

All this could use some love. Not going into specifics for each since I'm currently at work and I'm not familiar with what some would need like thief and elementalist.

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@"Infusion.7149" said:For condi scourge to be stronger in PVE relative to other condi builds averaging a few thousand DPS higher (including condi shortbow soulbeast which is ranged similar to scourge), several things need to happen:

  1. the punishment skills need to do more when targets don't have boons in PvE

I don't agree with this.

  1. the boon corrupts should do 100 defiance bar damage equivalent to 1s fear (that's what stability corrupts into ; a defiance bar is a PvE substitute for stability) , which would in turn proc Insidious Disruption if traited

I agree that defiance bar is an issue to "boon hate" that need to be fixed. Defiance bar is much more that just "a PvE substitute for stability", technically it's also a semi substitute to resistance and vigor.

  1. PvE enemies should have boons worth corrupting for defensive / offensive value , we can see this in DRMs where the enemies' quickness + might converts to slow and weakness which mitigates damage immensely

Thing is what really matter in PvE is bosses and bosses have defiance bar. Defiance bar allow them to be careless about weakness and slow.

  1. Sadistic Searing needs a better PvE recharge reduction or more PvE burn stacks , if you're running one or even four punishment skills it is extremely underwhelming. Dessicate should be competitive with Blood is Power or better. Ghastly Breach already is split between PvE and competitive, so just reduce cooldown further.

I don't agree.

  1. an indirect way of supporting hybrid scourges would be to increase damage and heal scaling on vampiric presence while in shroud for PvE, see Predator's Cunning trait on soulbeast or Soulcleave summit

Dangerous idea, very dangerous.From my point of view:

  • Punishments need to trigger a "boon corrupted" response on defiance bar. (which will make them apply both cripple and torment)
  • Boon convertion need to treat defiance like it would corrupt a vigor stack. (even if it doesn't remove it, it would at least add a bleed stack)
  • When in breakbar phase, "boon hate" (not just boon convertion) need to deal damage to the breakbar (whether it's 100 or 10 point, it's up to the devs)
  • If it's not enough, both torch skills can afford a buff to their condition output.

Reaper could use a UI update: there's no reason why utilities could not show cooldowns but grayed out. The ease of use is a primary draw for people and ultimately the biggest liability is life force when there are no adds.

I thin it's been discussed by one of the devs long ago, DS and RS are both transformations and the way transformations are coded make it impossible to do so. To make matter worse, any change to this could destabilize the game architecture. From ANet's devs point of view what you're asking is equivalent to create a whole new e-spec.

Thief's ability to provide quickness could be PVE game-wide rather than a few raids by putting it into the trait Bountiful Theft (so it's not just vigor) or Thrill of the Crime, allowing a full Diviner Thief to supply quickness. The main thing is there isn't a strong condi build so it should be able to provide quickness when power isn't a strong or extremely viable option.

I don't agree. All in all, if the thief become the reliable source of quickness in all encounter, you'll just end up with complains pouring that other profession can't express their support builds. It might be strange to say but, at the moment, the position the thief is in is probably the most well designed.

Top end damage (i.e. the chrono that everyone always hates on) could be adjusted by lowering the danger time damage bonus to around 5 or 7%. Currently a solo chrono would only manage a typical ~36K DPS. This would only affect stacked chrono comps , similar to the "Feel my Wrath" change on DH. Lowering the vulnerability output on sword of justice would also even out the disparities in actual scenarios.

I do not think that it would be a significative change to the "meta", so I'm neither against nor for this change.

Speaking of stacking, firebrands should probably have mantra of solace looked at. The quickness on the trait could be longer (or tacked on to mantra of potence) and then the recharge increased (along with a corresponding heal increase in all modes) as stacking firebrands means you have high amounts of aegis without running shield, utilities, or mace.

I've got no opinion here.

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Infusion.7149" said:For condi scourge to be stronger in PVE relative to other condi builds averaging a few thousand DPS higher (including condi shortbow soulbeast which is ranged similar to scourge), several things need to happen:
  1. the punishment skills need to do more when targets don't have boons in PvE

I don't agree with this.
  1. the boon corrupts should do 100 defiance bar damage equivalent to 1s fear (that's what stability corrupts into ; a defiance bar is a PvE substitute for stability) , which would in turn proc
    Insidious Disruption
    if traited

I agree that defiance bar is an issue to "boon hate" that need to be fixed. Defiance bar is much more that just "a PvE substitute for stability", technically it's also a semi substitute to resistance and vigor.
  1. PvE enemies should have boons worth corrupting for defensive / offensive value , we can see this in DRMs where the enemies' quickness + might converts to slow and weakness which mitigates damage immensely

Thing is what really matter in PvE is bosses and bosses have defiance bar. Defiance bar allow them to be careless about weakness and slow.
  1. Sadistic Searing needs a better PvE recharge reduction or more PvE burn stacks , if you're running one or even four punishment skills it is extremely underwhelming. Dessicate should be competitive with Blood is Power or better. Ghastly Breach already is split between PvE and competitive, so just reduce cooldown further.

I don't agree.
  1. an indirect way of supporting hybrid scourges would be to increase damage and heal scaling on vampiric presence while in shroud for PvE, see Predator's Cunning trait on soulbeast or Soulcleave summit

Dangerous idea, very dangerous.From my point of view:
  • Punishments
    need to trigger a "boon corrupted" response on defiance bar. (which will make them apply both cripple and torment)
  • Boon convertion
    need to treat
    defiance
    like it would corrupt a vigor stack. (even if it doesn't remove it, it would at least add a bleed stack)
  • When in breakbar phase, "boon hate" (not just boon convertion) need to deal damage to the breakbar (whether it's 100 or 10 point, it's up to the devs)
  • If it's not enough, both torch skills can afford a buff to their condition output.

Reaper could use a UI update: there's no reason why utilities could not show cooldowns but grayed out. The ease of use is a primary draw for people and ultimately the biggest liability is life force when there are no adds.

I thin it's been discussed by one of the devs long ago, DS and RS are both transformations and the way transformations are coded make it impossible to do so. To make matter worse, any change to this could destabilize the game architecture. From ANet's devs point of view what you're asking is equivalent to create a whole new e-spec.

Thief's ability to provide quickness could be PVE game-wide rather than a few raids by putting it into the trait
Bountiful Theft
(so it's not just vigor) or
Thrill of the Crime
, allowing a full Diviner Thief to supply quickness. The main thing is there isn't a strong condi build so it should be able to provide quickness when power isn't a strong or extremely viable option.

I don't agree. All in all, if the thief become
the
reliable source of quickness in all encounter, you'll just end up with complains pouring that other profession can't express their support builds. It might be strange to say but, at the moment, the position the thief is in is probably the most well designed.

Top end damage (i.e. the chrono that everyone always hates on) could be adjusted by lowering the danger time damage bonus to around 5 or 7%. Currently a solo chrono would only manage a typical ~36K DPS. This would only affect stacked chrono comps , similar to the "Feel my Wrath" change on DH. Lowering the vulnerability output on sword of justice would also even out the disparities in actual scenarios.

I do not think that it would be a significative change to the "meta", so I'm neither against nor for this change.

Speaking of stacking, firebrands should probably have mantra of solace looked at. The quickness on the trait could be longer (or tacked on to mantra of potence) and then the recharge increased (along with a corresponding heal increase in all modes) as stacking firebrands means you have high amounts of aegis without running shield, utilities, or mace.

I've got no opinion here.

I don't know why you would be against increasing vampiric presence damage/healing for the necro only (while in shroud) for PvE only. Running Parasitic Contagion in Curses means you give up AoE on scepter and a large part of scepter's condition duration , whereas Soul Eater has no such impact on Reapers and scrappers don't even need to trait anything (~33K DPS in full zerk). Bosses do have boons as well (especially in fractals), it's just that the defiance bar is an additional feature. There really isn't a reason to buff offhand torch, Lucky Noobs' build actually runs double torch. You are better off increasing output from other offhands or weapons' conditions (offhand dagger for example) so that a full rotation has more skills to use.

Holosmith's Photon Forge is a transformation as well which is why you can't pick up crystals in Solid Ocean fractals. Firebrand tomes aren't , berserker berserk mode is sort of a transform (Rampage has the same UI problem), and soulbeast merging isn't. Druids can use utilities in Celestial Avatar.

A simple change to thief would not make it meta in PvE. Instead it would just be a weaker alternative to StM chrono that is easier to play while also allowing people with boon thief to use their gear elsewhere. Firebrands will remain meta so long as there is role compression (healbrand) and covering mistakes via aegis. Condi boon chrono will remain meta in cases where confusion is high damage ; it can also provide alacrity.

Speaking of Berserker spec, it could use some help in PvP. I think that being able to drop berserk mode (at a cost of losing all adrenaline and all berserk mode damage mods) is more or less essential for it to be viable. Greatsword's Hundred Blades being able to move while channeling the skill would help too. Mirage's one dodge meme is a problem in WvW but as it isn't run in squads typically and chrono is common in squads it isn't as large a priority. If druids could perma-stow their pet in WvW they might be more accepted also.

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