Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Lightning Rod gets the Impacting Disruption Treatment when?


Recommended Posts

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@FrownyClown.8402 said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil is an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 116
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

@"UNOwen.7132" said:

Not really, Scrapper is actually more defensive than offensive (or was, nowadays it has some extra damage multipliers it didnt have).

That's my point, daredevil is also supposed to be more defensive than offensive. You might deny it, but daredevil was not designed as a primary damage spec.It is a bruiser. Absolutely everything in it's design is telling it, but I will provide various examples to point this out more clearly now.

Bruiser elite specs like scrapper and spellbreaker have defensive mechanics built into their elite spec weapons and also CC.Scrapper has a stun (and additional dazes if comboing the lightning field with it's double leap finisher on 3), projectile reflect, a block, evades.Spellbreaker has a daze and projectile reflect.

Now let's take a look at daredevil's weapon, the staff, shall we?

  • knockdown on stealth attack (CC)
  • weakness (damage reduction which is further improved by a minor trait of daredevil's)
  • blind
  • 2 different evades
  • projectile reflect

Now compare that to something like holosmith, which is without a doubt designed as a dps spec. Sword provides zero defense and the only "CC" it provides is a cripple, which is the weakest form of CC that even exists (if we want to count that one at all, that is).

Let's continue. Now we can take a look at the new utility skill type for daredevil, physical skills.Literally all of them have either CC or enhance the daredevil's defense in some way.

  • Channeled Vigor: Refills your endurance -> more dodges to prevent damage
  • Bandit's Defense: Is a block, followed by a knockdown, so it even has both, defense and CC.
  • Distracting Daggers: Has a daze, it's primary function is disrupting enemies.
  • Fist Flurry: The follow up skill is a stun.
  • Impairing Daggers: Soft CC in form of immobilize.
  • Impact Strike: The chain has 2 CCs, the first is a stun, the second a launch.

So as shown, all these skills provide either CC or additional defense. Just one of them is really a strong damage skill, fist flurry. Which is not unheard of for bruiser specs, even scrapper has dps based utility skills added like shredder gyro.

And another point: traits.I will now list all traits from daredevil which are adding defense or reward CC:

  • Physical Supremacy: You gain additional endurance for more dodges.
  • Marauder's Resilience: Bonus vitality and you take less damage from nearby enemies.
  • Escapist's Fortitude: You heal every time you evade/dodge an attack and cleanse conditions.
  • Brawler's Tenacity: You gain endurance if you use a physical skill (more dodges)
  • Weakening Strikes: Weakness on enemies and enhancing it so you take even less damage from weakened foes.
  • Staff Master: Gain endurance for initiative you spend while wielding a staff.
  • Impacting Disruption: Rewarding your CC if you disrupt an enemy.
  • Endurance Thief: You gain endurance if you successfully swipe an enemy.
  • Unhindered Combatant: Cleansing movement impairing conditions and grant damage reduction for a period of time.

Again, quite alot of defense in there, isn't it?Do you think I am done? Nope, there is more pointing at it.

Now let's look at the statlines which the daredevil items are allowing you to take:

  • Celestial
  • Marauder
  • Minstrel

The most offensive of these 3 is marauder and even that stat line has a defensive stat with vitality included. The stats chosen for the weapon and armor of the elite specs are not chosen at random, they are hinting at the direction the spec is supposed to be.

And last, but not least, the description of the daredevil by Anet:Training in the path of the Daredevil does not come easily, but those who dare are rewarded with the reserves that will help them endure as they enter the jungle. Specializing as a daredevil will allow you to wield a staff as a melee weapon and utilize hand-to-hand combat styles with the physical skill category. Additionally, you’ll gain access to a third endurance bar and be able to greatly modify the effects of your dodge ability.

No, actually, it is supposed to be a DPS trait. Thats why it launched with a pretty big modifier, and does nothing but damage. Well, that and the fact that "here is a small little reward for you CCing the enemy" is genuinely 100% worthless, and results in Daredevil currently having only 2 master traits to choose from.

No, it really isn't. But considering how often I see this misconception of daredevil being a "dps spec", I understand why people are misunderstanding this trait as well.Sure, it could probably use a buff. But it is not supposed to be a great dps tool. Like I said, small rewards for CC are common for bruiser specs.

And therein lies your issue. "Traits which are applying some small rewards for CCing enemies are common on bruiser elite specs, which daredevil is NOT supposed to be.". Daredevil is supposed to be a high damage evasive threat. PI is supposed to be a huge DPS source, thats what it was designed as, and thats the only way it was playable. And soulbeast is more bruiser-y than Daredevil. DPS is the primary purpose of Daredevil, while for Soulbeast durability actually is the primary purpose.

I think I have shown in detail that daredevil is indeed quite focused on defense and CC. Daredevil is a bruiser spec, it is Anet's answer to the question "how can we make thief into a tank and still make it thematically fitting?".

And this answer has been an evasion tank. Thematically, something similar like Shen from League of Legends. Daredevil is a bruiser, which is still using the defensive mechanics which are flavoured for thief, which to some large part are evasions/dodges.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Kodama.6453 said:

@"UNOwen.7132" said:

Not really, Scrapper is actually more defensive than offensive (or was, nowadays it has some extra damage multipliers it didnt have).

Its not supposed to be, and never was. It also, ironically, has fewer damage multipliers than before.

That's my point, daredevil is also supposed to be more defensive than offensive. You might deny it, but daredevil was not designed as a primary damage spec.

I will deny it, because it was in fact designed as a primary damage spec. But Ill get back to that in a bit.

It is a bruiser. Absolutely everything in it's design is telling it, but I will provide various examples to point this out more clearly now.

Ok, since going bit by bit is going to take forever. Lets instead look at Daredevil as it was originally. Pop Quiz. The initial version of Daredevil, before any changes. How many damage reduction traits did that traitline have. If you answered "none", congratulations! You got it correctly. The original Daredevil traitline had 0 damage reducing traits. It only had 1 true defensive trait, and 2 that were borderline. The true defensive one was healing on dodge, the borderline ones were weakness on crit (does provide defense, but also messes with endurance which is an offensive capability), and condi cleanse on dodge (can help survive, but also helps cleanse anti-offense condis like cripple, weak, chill and rarely fear). On the other hand, the traitline had 6 offensive traits.

Pop quiz, question 2: What current traitline is most like the old Daredevil in its layout? If you answered "Deadly Arts", an offensive traitline, congratulations! You are once again correct. Critical Strikes is a bit further away (it lacks the utility traits that DD has), but its probably the second-closest answer. After all, DA also has a healing trait, and a weakness trait. It trades the condi cleanse for improvs ability to reuse some of the defensive stolen tiems. How odd, isnt it? Its the most like 2 offensive traitlines.

Now, for comparision, lets look at the one genuine defense-focused traitline thief has. Acrobatics. Acrobatics has 1 vaguely offensive traitline. The rest are all defensive or utility. That is what a primary defense traitline looks like. Incidentally, it is not what Daredevil looks like. At all. In fact, this is the traitline DD is furthest away from.

Now, as for why your comparision fails, lets go over it briefly.

Melee weapons always have defense built in. Holos Sword doesnt need it because its a mainhand power weapon and as such can only be played with Engineers shield, a weapon that provides the defense. No one would disagree that Reaper is a DPS spec, but it too has built-in defense. So does Mirage Axe. Hell, so does Spellbreakers dagger.

I love how misleading you are about the skills. "Fist Flurry -> Has a stun at the end". No mention of it being a pure DPS skill on the first half, and originally having a lot of DPS on the second half. Likewise ignoring that Impact Strike is primarily there for damage, as is impairing daggers. Also ignoring that disrupting daggers were meant to work with the on-interrupt traits, yknow, the ones that actually do damage and nothing else? The only one that really fits your description is Bandits defense, but its not unusual for a DPS spec to have one defensive skill. Holo has 2.

Pretty much all of those traits were added to DD much later. Some even after PI was nerfed. You also added PI to defense rather than damage (???) and forgot to mention that weakening strikes and staff master are both primarily about damage. Also ignoring bound, or that evades are also for damage purposes, thanks to bound. And not mentioning that 3 of the "defense" traits are all in the minor slot, while you have no choice for defense in the major, and barely one in the grandmaster.

As for the statlines, you put too much weight on them. Berserker, possibly the most UNGA designed spec, the one that is about damage and absolutely nothing else? Well, would it surprise you to know that it doesn't have Berserkers either? It has Sentinels. The only offensive stat combination it gives is Sinister, and Im pretty sure that was a change made to make Sinister more easily available. Heralds focused more on condition damage despite not really having condition damage. Or hell, by your own logic, Scrapper shouldn't have Berserker. But it does. Yes, Daredevils stats are off. Its not the only spec like that.

No, actually, it
is
supposed to be a DPS trait. Thats why it launched with a pretty big modifier, and does nothing but damage. Well, that and the fact that "here is a small little reward for you CCing the enemy" is genuinely 100%
worthless
, and results in Daredevil currently having only 2 master traits to choose from.

No, it really isn't. But considering how often I see this misconception of daredevil being a "dps spec", I understand why people are misunderstanding this trait as well.Sure, it could probably use a buff. But it is not supposed to be a great dps tool. Like I said, small rewards for CC are common for bruiser specs.

It is. The misconception is of Daredevil being a "bruiser spec". I understand as a result why you misunderstand PI as well. Though I don't understand why you ignore its original design or intent. Its supposed to be a great DPS tool. Thats what it was designed as originally. Big damage on condition is common for dps specs.

And therein lies your issue. "Traits which are applying some small rewards for CCing enemies are common on bruiser elite specs, which daredevil is
NOT
supposed to be.". Daredevil is supposed to be a high damage evasive threat. PI is supposed to be a huge DPS source, thats what it was designed as, and thats the only way it was playable. And soulbeast is
more
bruiser-y than Daredevil. DPS is the primary purpose of Daredevil, while for Soulbeast durability
actually
is the primary purpose.

I think I have shown in detail that daredevil is indeed quite focused on defense and CC. Daredevil is a bruiser spec, it is Anet's answer to the question "how can we make thief into a tank and still make it thematically fitting?".

You haven't. Its a DPS spec. It was Anet's answer to the question "how can we make thief buy the original acrobatics again". Daredevil isn't and never was intended to be a tank. Hence why it originally had practically no defense. What it was meant to be, was a new take on the existing S/D playstyle, that is evasive glass cannon.

And this answer has been an evasion tank. Thematically, something similar like Shen from League of Legends. Daredevil is a bruiser, which is still using the defensive mechanics which are flavoured for thief, which to some large part are evasions/dodges.

Once again, false. Thematically, Daredevil is similar most to Fizz or Kha'Zix from League. Its a DPS spec.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec or a Defensive one (based on what you choose) .

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor TraitDefense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +HealDefense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reductionOffense> Then you choose an offensive option - PI or +15% increaseDefense > Gain more endurance when you Steal , which is a diffensive option . ("Mug" is classified as Offensive)Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option-10% damage or an offensive +15% .But mostly people use the Defensive option

If people use the Unhindered Combatant , then the spec is classified as "Defensive" with 83,3% of defensive traits

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did

. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added much later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it very clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed all damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed all of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened, every single thief would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive . They dont other Utility , but straight up SurvibilityBlind/Weakness/slow/Stun count as Utility/Survibiliy spells , because the enemy wont have time to attack/deal more damage to your Friend .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ , where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage-50% defense ) or an 83,3% Defensive option is up to you . But most use the latter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense, no thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things completely wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .If Mug can do now 635 with 0,75 conf , then with 2.0 conf it could do 1600?1600+872 frontloaded damage + 450(crit) from Headshot =?

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

Yes I did. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has 1 instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the slightest clue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .If we mix it with 5 Might =150 Power , he can reach 3200 , whch hold true in the thing i said : "2900-3300"

And Dash is a defensive option .Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .You are wrong about that too :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is higher than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage, exactly as we saw on the video. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again, doesn't understand how the game works.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .

I win again ?:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

Now you can wisper me ingame , to agree if Dash is an offensive or defensive tool :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

There there , its ok child :)

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very, very wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

There there , its ok child :)

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

I think you're missing his point. He's saying that Pulminary Impact hits for ~1000. This is the delayed damage you take after being interrupted.

This is separate from the damage caused by the interrupt skill. It is also separate from damage caused by other traits, or any additional conditions applied in conjunction with the crowd control skill.

He's arguing that PI does 1k damage while you're arguing that PI + headshot + steal (mug) =/= 1k damage. You're arguing two completely different points.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Look on PI :https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvPDamage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...