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Guard has no more reliable way of doing damage


GuriGashi.5617

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@Shao.7236 said:

These claims about not able to land power damage, it's like waiting for a dodge or CC'ing sustain away is just too hard for anyone. It's a joke to heard people complain power guard not being a thing, it is fine.

You're making it sound godly for landing Mighty Blow on plat players over and over, which it isn't. It's perfectly normal when you're reasonable with your expectations.

If you're conditioned to expect 48k burning damage you might as well quit the PvP, people don't want it here.

Even if I land every mighty blow, I'll use the skill twice per weapon swap (this is very obvious). I still won't have enough damage to kill anything with hammer.

And I don't care about ranked. I made top 10 as zerk guard 6 something months ago when I still bothered. It won't see any tournament play.

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@Math.5123 said:

These claims about not able to land power damage, it's like waiting for a dodge or CC'ing sustain away is just too hard for anyone. It's a joke to heard people complain power guard not being a thing, it is fine.

You're making it sound godly for landing Mighty Blow on plat players over and over, which it isn't. It's perfectly normal when you're reasonable with your expectations.

If you're conditioned to expect 48k burning damage you might as well quit the PvP, people don't want it here.

Even if I land every mighty blow, I'll use the skill twice per weapon swap (this is very obvious). I still won't have enough damage to kill anything with hammer.

And I don't care about ranked. I made top 10 as zerk guard 6 something months ago when I still bothered. It won't see any tournament play.

Nothing that's remotely challenging to use will see tournament play.

And your first statement is wrong. There's a lot that can die to Hammer, it's not some rare planetary alignement and whether you call it from bad players, it doesn't matter as no players can always evade something that's below the best human reactions possible in a chase, the rest depends from utility available. I constantly duo with a Valkyrie guard and we're making it up there just fine, highest being 12 so far and I'm playing an assortment of Rev builds included Ventari after the nerf(I stream if you really don't believe it.). Not everything has to be suited for 1v1 in a team game, bad match ups will exist and that's just the end of it, a Valk Guard will easily finish off an unwary/escaping target (most notably thieves), that's just how broken Judge Intervention is and Symbol of Blade has various ways to kite people around certain maps, it's hilariously fun to watch.

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@Math.5123 said:

These claims about not able to land power damage, it's like waiting for a dodge or CC'ing sustain away is just too hard for anyone. It's a joke to heard people complain power guard not being a thing, it is fine.

You're making it sound godly for landing Mighty Blow on plat players over and over, which it isn't. It's perfectly normal when you're reasonable with your expectations.

If you're conditioned to expect 48k burning damage you might as well quit the PvP, people don't want it here.

Even if I land every mighty blow, I'll use the skill twice per weapon swap (this is very obvious). I still won't have enough damage to kill anything with hammer.

And I don't care about ranked. I made top 10 as zerk guard 6 something months ago when I still bothered. It won't see any tournament play.

Welcome to like most builds outside of the handful of cheese builds that were abusing skills that escaped the MegaBalance like Nades Holo+Scrapper.

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@Shao.7236 said:

These claims about not able to land power damage, it's like waiting for a dodge or CC'ing sustain away is just too hard for anyone. It's a joke to heard people complain power guard not being a thing, it is fine.

You're making it sound godly for landing Mighty Blow on plat players over and over, which it isn't. It's perfectly normal when you're reasonable with your expectations.

If you're conditioned to expect 48k burning damage you might as well quit the PvP, people don't want it here.

Even if I land every mighty blow, I'll use the skill twice per weapon swap (this is very obvious). I still won't have enough damage to kill anything with hammer.

And I don't care about ranked. I made top 10 as zerk guard 6 something months ago when I still bothered. It won't see any tournament play.

Nothing that's remotely challenging to use will see tournament play.

And your first statement is wrong. There's a lot that can die to Hammer, it's not some rare planetary alignement and whether you call it from bad players, it doesn't matter as no players can always evade something that's below the best human reactions possible in a chase, the rest depends from utility available. I constantly duo with a Valkyrie guard and we're making it up there just fine, highest being 12 so far and I'm playing an assortment of Rev builds included Ventari after the nerf(I stream if you really don't believe it.). Not everything has to be suited for 1v1 in a team game, bad match ups will exist and that's just the end of it, a Valk Guard will easily finish off an unwary/escaping target (most notably thieves), that's just how broken Judge Intervention is and Symbol of Blade has various ways to kite people around certain maps, it's hilariously fun to watch.

A good Core Hammer Burst Guardian is actually the strongest possible counter vs. certain things like Deadeye or Sic Em One Wolf Pack Soulbeast. Pretty much, if you have to kite to survive "pretty much all glass builds" and DO NOT have stability to walk over Ring Of Warding, you automatically die if the Guard JI's at you with Ring Of Warding while a call target is on your head. Cause you know, you can't get out of it without anything other than stab.

There was an old famous match actually, back when GW2 Esports was real, where Orange Logo beat the Abjured by bringing in a most unexpected Core Hammer Burst Guard build to abuse Ring Of Warding like this. Everyone thought Core Hammer Burst was bad btw.

@mortrialus.3062 said:

These claims about not able to land power damage, it's like waiting for a dodge or CC'ing sustain away is just too hard for anyone. It's a joke to heard people complain power guard not being a thing, it is fine.

You're making it sound godly for landing Mighty Blow on plat players over and over, which it isn't. It's perfectly normal when you're reasonable with your expectations.

If you're conditioned to expect 48k burning damage you might as well quit the PvP, people don't want it here.

Even if I land every mighty blow, I'll use the skill twice per weapon swap (this is very obvious). I still won't have enough damage to kill anything with hammer.

And I don't care about ranked. I made top 10 as zerk guard 6 something months ago when I still bothered. It won't see any tournament play.

Welcome to like most builds outside of the handful of cheese builds that were abusing skills that escaped the MegaBalance like Nades Holo+Scrapper.

Mirage main spotted in Guardian thread.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

These claims about not able to land power damage, it's like waiting for a dodge or CC'ing sustain away is just too hard for anyone. It's a joke to heard people complain power guard not being a thing, it is fine.

You're making it sound godly for landing Mighty Blow on plat players over and over, which it isn't. It's perfectly normal when you're reasonable with your expectations.

If you're conditioned to expect 48k burning damage you might as well quit the PvP, people don't want it here.

Even if I land every mighty blow, I'll use the skill twice per weapon swap (this is very obvious). I still won't have enough damage to kill anything with hammer.

And I don't care about ranked. I made top 10 as zerk guard 6 something months ago when I still bothered. It won't see any tournament play.

Nothing that's remotely challenging to use will see tournament play.

And your first statement is wrong. There's a lot that can die to Hammer, it's not some rare planetary alignement and whether you call it from bad players, it doesn't matter as no players can always evade something that's below the best human reactions possible in a chase, the rest depends from utility available. I constantly duo with a Valkyrie guard and we're making it up there just fine, highest being 12 so far and I'm playing an assortment of Rev builds included Ventari after the nerf(I stream if you really don't believe it.). Not everything has to be suited for 1v1 in a team game, bad match ups will exist and that's just the end of it, a Valk Guard will easily finish off an unwary/escaping target (most notably thieves), that's just how broken Judge Intervention is and Symbol of Blade has various ways to kite people around certain maps, it's hilariously fun to watch.

A good Core Hammer Burst Guardian is actually the strongest possible counter vs. certain things like Deadeye or Sic Em One Wolf Pack Soulbeast. Pretty much, if you have to kite to survive "pretty much all glass builds" and DO NOT have stability to walk over Ring Of Warding, you automatically die if the Guard JI's at you with Ring Of Warding while a call target is on your head. Cause you know, you can't get out of it without anything other than stab.

There was an old famous match actually, back when GW2 Esports was real, where Orange Logo beat the Abjured by bringing in a most unexpected Core Hammer Burst Guard build to abuse Ring Of Warding like this. Everyone thought Core Hammer Burst was bad btw.

These claims about not able to land power damage, it's like waiting for a dodge or CC'ing sustain away is just too hard for anyone. It's a joke to heard people complain power guard not being a thing, it is fine.

You're making it sound godly for landing Mighty Blow on plat players over and over, which it isn't. It's perfectly normal when you're reasonable with your expectations.

If you're conditioned to expect 48k burning damage you might as well quit the PvP, people don't want it here.

Even if I land every mighty blow, I'll use the skill twice per weapon swap (this is very obvious). I still won't have enough damage to kill anything with hammer.

And I don't care about ranked. I made top 10 as zerk guard 6 something months ago when I still bothered. It won't see any tournament play.

Welcome to like most builds outside of the handful of cheese builds that were abusing skills that escaped the MegaBalance like Nades Holo+Scrapper.

Mirage main spotted in Guardian thread.

+1 never knew about that synergy with JI. Makes me want to play a core hammer guard now.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

These claims about not able to land power damage, it's like waiting for a dodge or CC'ing sustain away is just too hard for anyone. It's a joke to heard people complain power guard not being a thing, it is fine.

You're making it sound godly for landing Mighty Blow on plat players over and over, which it isn't. It's perfectly normal when you're reasonable with your expectations.

If you're conditioned to expect 48k burning damage you might as well quit the PvP, people don't want it here.

Even if I land every mighty blow, I'll use the skill twice per weapon swap (this is very obvious). I still won't have enough damage to kill anything with hammer.

And I don't care about ranked. I made top 10 as zerk guard 6 something months ago when I still bothered. It won't see any tournament play.

Nothing that's remotely challenging to use will see tournament play.

And your first statement is wrong. There's a lot that can die to Hammer, it's not some rare planetary alignement and whether you call it from bad players, it doesn't matter as no players can always evade something that's below the best human reactions possible in a chase, the rest depends from utility available. I constantly duo with a Valkyrie guard and we're making it up there just fine, highest being 12 so far and I'm playing an assortment of Rev builds included Ventari after the nerf(I stream if you really don't believe it.). Not everything has to be suited for 1v1 in a team game, bad match ups will exist and that's just the end of it, a Valk Guard will easily finish off an unwary/escaping target (most notably thieves), that's just how broken Judge Intervention is and Symbol of Blade has various ways to kite people around certain maps, it's hilariously fun to watch.

A good Core Hammer Burst Guardian is actually the strongest possible counter vs. certain things like Deadeye or Sic Em One Wolf Pack Soulbeast. Pretty much, if you have to kite to survive "pretty much all glass builds" and DO NOT have stability to walk over Ring Of Warding, you automatically die if the Guard JI's at you with Ring Of Warding while a call target is on your head. Cause you know, you can't get out of it without anything other than stab.

There was an old famous match actually, back when GW2 Esports was real, where Orange Logo beat the Abjured by bringing in a most unexpected Core Hammer Burst Guard build to abuse Ring Of Warding like this. Everyone thought Core Hammer Burst was bad btw.

These claims about not able to land power damage, it's like waiting for a dodge or CC'ing sustain away is just too hard for anyone. It's a joke to heard people complain power guard not being a thing, it is fine.

You're making it sound godly for landing Mighty Blow on plat players over and over, which it isn't. It's perfectly normal when you're reasonable with your expectations.

If you're conditioned to expect 48k burning damage you might as well quit the PvP, people don't want it here.

Even if I land every mighty blow, I'll use the skill twice per weapon swap (this is very obvious). I still won't have enough damage to kill anything with hammer.

And I don't care about ranked. I made top 10 as zerk guard 6 something months ago when I still bothered. It won't see any tournament play.

Welcome to like most builds outside of the handful of cheese builds that were abusing skills that escaped the MegaBalance like Nades Holo+Scrapper.

Mirage main spotted in Guardian thread.

The build has come a long way since that time.Notably, the only damaging ability on hammer got a 250% cd increase.

For someone that has played the game as much as you can, I sure assumed you knew that all you need to get out of RoW is a single stunbreak. No stability needed. And if a thief actually gets caught with Shortbow on cd and without shadowstep or agility Signet, then I guess it deserves to die.

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@Math.5123 said:

These claims about not able to land power damage, it's like waiting for a dodge or CC'ing sustain away is just too hard for anyone. It's a joke to heard people complain power guard not being a thing, it is fine.

You're making it sound godly for landing Mighty Blow on plat players over and over, which it isn't. It's perfectly normal when you're reasonable with your expectations.

If you're conditioned to expect 48k burning damage you might as well quit the PvP, people don't want it here.

Even if I land every mighty blow, I'll use the skill twice per weapon swap (this is very obvious). I still won't have enough damage to kill anything with hammer.

And I don't care about ranked. I made top 10 as zerk guard 6 something months ago when I still bothered. It won't see any tournament play.

Nothing that's remotely challenging to use will see tournament play.

And your first statement is wrong. There's a lot that can die to Hammer, it's not some rare planetary alignement and whether you call it from bad players, it doesn't matter as no players can always evade something that's below the best human reactions possible in a chase, the rest depends from utility available. I constantly duo with a Valkyrie guard and we're making it up there just fine, highest being 12 so far and I'm playing an assortment of Rev builds included Ventari after the nerf(I stream if you really don't believe it.). Not everything has to be suited for 1v1 in a team game, bad match ups will exist and that's just the end of it, a Valk Guard will easily finish off an unwary/escaping target (most notably thieves), that's just how broken Judge Intervention is and Symbol of Blade has various ways to kite people around certain maps, it's hilariously fun to watch.

A good Core Hammer Burst Guardian is actually the strongest possible counter vs. certain things like Deadeye or Sic Em One Wolf Pack Soulbeast. Pretty much, if you have to kite to survive "pretty much all glass builds" and DO NOT have stability to walk over Ring Of Warding, you automatically die if the Guard JI's at you with Ring Of Warding while a call target is on your head. Cause you know, you can't get out of it without anything other than stab.

There was an old famous match actually, back when GW2 Esports was real, where Orange Logo beat the Abjured by bringing in a most unexpected Core Hammer Burst Guard build to abuse Ring Of Warding like this. Everyone thought Core Hammer Burst was bad btw.

These claims about not able to land power damage, it's like waiting for a dodge or CC'ing sustain away is just too hard for anyone. It's a joke to heard people complain power guard not being a thing, it is fine.

You're making it sound godly for landing Mighty Blow on plat players over and over, which it isn't. It's perfectly normal when you're reasonable with your expectations.

If you're conditioned to expect 48k burning damage you might as well quit the PvP, people don't want it here.

Even if I land every mighty blow, I'll use the skill twice per weapon swap (this is very obvious). I still won't have enough damage to kill anything with hammer.

And I don't care about ranked. I made top 10 as zerk guard 6 something months ago when I still bothered. It won't see any tournament play.

Welcome to like most builds outside of the handful of cheese builds that were abusing skills that escaped the MegaBalance like Nades Holo+Scrapper.

Mirage main spotted in Guardian thread.

The build has come a long way since that time.Notably, the only damaging ability on hammer got a 250% cd increase.

For someone that has played the game as much as you can, I sure assumed you knew that all you need to get out of RoW is a single stunbreak. No stability needed. And if a thief actually gets caught with Shortbow on cd and without shadowstep or agility Signet, then I guess it deserves to die.

Yes, it can work that way with most classes. But the way the main Ranger stun break works "Lightning Reflexes" is the stun break activates FIRST and then the evade makes you get stuck on the ROW again, even if you purposely walk backwards into the ROW before pushing LR. This is just one of the problems that LR has which funks up its purpose of being a stun break, right alongside of how the small damage proc makes you CC yourself in Shock Aura or Static Field, completely canceling the stun break, and how Taunt for whatever reason bugs up LR and won't allow it to cast until the full duration of the Taunt ends. The only other stun break that Sic Em Soulbeast will have is Quick Zephyr. This is primarily preserved for the burst and so it is rarely sitting on the utility bar waiting to be use as a stun break.

All of the evasive glass cannon builds have this same type of problem as they possess few stun breaks and most of those skills are also mirrored in use as offensive utilities. There are few exceptions.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

These claims about not able to land power damage, it's like waiting for a dodge or CC'ing sustain away is just too hard for anyone. It's a joke to heard people complain power guard not being a thing, it is fine.

You're making it sound godly for landing Mighty Blow on plat players over and over, which it isn't. It's perfectly normal when you're reasonable with your expectations.

If you're conditioned to expect 48k burning damage you might as well quit the PvP, people don't want it here.

Even if I land every mighty blow, I'll use the skill twice per weapon swap (this is very obvious). I still won't have enough damage to kill anything with hammer.

And I don't care about ranked. I made top 10 as zerk guard 6 something months ago when I still bothered. It won't see any tournament play.

Nothing that's remotely challenging to use will see tournament play.

And your first statement is wrong. There's a lot that can die to Hammer, it's not some rare planetary alignement and whether you call it from bad players, it doesn't matter as no players can always evade something that's below the best human reactions possible in a chase, the rest depends from utility available. I constantly duo with a Valkyrie guard and we're making it up there just fine, highest being 12 so far and I'm playing an assortment of Rev builds included Ventari after the nerf(I stream if you really don't believe it.). Not everything has to be suited for 1v1 in a team game, bad match ups will exist and that's just the end of it, a Valk Guard will easily finish off an unwary/escaping target (most notably thieves), that's just how broken Judge Intervention is and Symbol of Blade has various ways to kite people around certain maps, it's hilariously fun to watch.

A good Core Hammer Burst Guardian is actually the strongest possible counter vs. certain things like Deadeye or Sic Em One Wolf Pack Soulbeast. Pretty much, if you have to kite to survive "pretty much all glass builds" and DO NOT have stability to walk over Ring Of Warding, you automatically die if the Guard JI's at you with Ring Of Warding while a call target is on your head. Cause you know, you can't get out of it without anything other than stab.

There was an old famous match actually, back when GW2 Esports was real, where Orange Logo beat the Abjured by bringing in a most unexpected Core Hammer Burst Guard build to abuse Ring Of Warding like this. Everyone thought Core Hammer Burst was bad btw.

These claims about not able to land power damage, it's like waiting for a dodge or CC'ing sustain away is just too hard for anyone. It's a joke to heard people complain power guard not being a thing, it is fine.

You're making it sound godly for landing Mighty Blow on plat players over and over, which it isn't. It's perfectly normal when you're reasonable with your expectations.

If you're conditioned to expect 48k burning damage you might as well quit the PvP, people don't want it here.

Even if I land every mighty blow, I'll use the skill twice per weapon swap (this is very obvious). I still won't have enough damage to kill anything with hammer.

And I don't care about ranked. I made top 10 as zerk guard 6 something months ago when I still bothered. It won't see any tournament play.

Welcome to like most builds outside of the handful of cheese builds that were abusing skills that escaped the MegaBalance like Nades Holo+Scrapper.

Mirage main spotted in Guardian thread.

The build has come a long way since that time.Notably, the only damaging ability on hammer got a 250% cd increase.

For someone that has played the game as much as you can, I sure assumed you knew that all you need to get out of RoW is a single stunbreak. No stability needed. And if a thief actually gets caught with Shortbow on cd and without shadowstep or agility Signet, then I guess it deserves to die.

Yes, it can work that way with most classes. But the way the main Ranger stun break works "Lightning Reflexes" is the stun break activates FIRST and then the evade makes you get stuck on the ROW again, even if you purposely walk backwards into the ROW before pushing LR. This is just one of the problems that LR has which funks up its purpose of being a stun break, right alongside of how the small damage proc makes you CC yourself in Shock Aura or Static Field, completely canceling the stun break, and how Taunt for whatever reason bugs up LR and won't allow it to cast until the full duration of the Taunt ends. The only other stun break that Sic Em Soulbeast will have is Quick Zephyr. This is primarily preserved for the burst and so it is rarely sitting on the utility bar waiting to be use as a stun break.

All of the evasive glass cannon builds have this same type of problem as they possess few stun breaks and most of those skills are also mirrored in use as offensive utilities. There are few exceptions.

Sic'em outtrades hammer guard any day of the week inside the ring. And if you jump dodge into LR you'll get out.

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@lotus.5672 said:power guardian is fine

Saying the exact opposite without any explanation is no argument

OK ... considering the way that Guardians do damage is the same as every other class in this game, power guardian is fine. is that better?

No, because what you said is 100% wrong, since Guards have a useless symbol on every weapon set as well as a ton of support skills that don‘t do damage. Each weapon has roughly one burst skill of which only True Shot can be landed consistently as the lowest mobility class ingame.

Turn it how you like it - fact is offensive power Guards lose to every single roamer in the current meta since Writ of Persistence and with it power damage on every weapon set was nerfed, which was the reason Guardians started to play degen burn builds in the first place, to make up for the hard damage loss

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@snoow.1694 said:

@lotus.5672 said:power guardian is fine

Saying the exact opposite without any explanation is no argument

OK ... considering the way that Guardians do damage is the same as every other class in this game, power guardian is fine. is that better?

No, because what you said is 100% wrong, since Guards have a useless symbol on every weapon set as well as a ton of support skills that don‘t do damage. Each weapon has roughly one burst skill of which only True Shot can be landed consistently as the lowest mobility class ingame.

Turn it how you like it - fact is offensive power Guards lose to every single roamer in the current meta since Writ of Persistence and with it power damage on every weapon set was nerfed, which was the reason Guardians started to play degen burn builds in the first place, to make up for the hard damage loss

Right ... so what you are saying is ... game changes and the good players adapted to the change.

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@snoow.1694 said:

@lotus.5672 said:power guardian is fine

Saying the exact opposite without any explanation is no argument

OK ... considering the way that Guardians do damage is the same as every other class in this game, power guardian is fine. is that better?

No, because what you said is 100% wrong, since Guards have a useless symbol on every weapon set as well as a ton of support skills that don‘t do damage. Each weapon has roughly one burst skill of which only True Shot can be landed consistently as the lowest mobility class ingame.

Turn it how you like it - fact is offensive power Guards lose to every single roamer in the current meta since Writ of Persistence and with it power damage on every weapon set was nerfed, which was the reason Guardians started to play degen burn builds in the first place, to make up for the hard damage loss

Hard disagree. People played burn because it was untouched and broken, period.

With all the nerfs many professions got included Herald, Guardian is not underpowered at all in terms of anything. You have the bar set so low, I find it hard to take seriously that you play Guardian at all at any level.

Because you're struggling to do anything and people beat you doesn't mean they have it easier than you either, I'm willing to bet that the fights are very well balanced and they get the better of you instead because you can't seem to improve your game in those changing times.

It's the same thing with many Warriors saying it's weak yet when played properly they can dominate fairly easily anything. However because it takes effort, must be underpowered? Nah. The only thing that's weak right now is Core Elementalist because no matter how well they do or whatever they pick, even bunker. Their CD's in any utility outside signets are so high or insignificant from past patches they can't do anything but go Weaver.

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:Just pointing out that the statement is not true. Guardians, core, DH, FB, they all definitely still deal damage, although it may no longer be a top 3 meta pick.That's the issue. Doing okayish damage with the worse healthpool in the game fails as a recipe for a playable class. No one cares if guard is a "top 3 meta pick," but compared to other specs with better damage and health, it's simply not worth it to play at all. If that's your definition of balanced....

Also dude who's been playing guard since beta totally debunked your burst combo. You haven't proved that guard still has reliable damage, unless you define "reliable" as effective only on players who don't know what they're doing.

"Face Palm"
  1. I have pointed out 3x now that I did not say anything about it being a top meta pick.
  2. "doing okayish damage" yeah welcome to the world elementalist as well as some other classes who are only ever allowed to play middle tier. They've had to suffer EXACTLY like this for years now, where they either run high burst damage like a core burst guard and are too squishy to survive anything, or run supporty builds with okayish damage. Guess what? The best ele enthusiasts have always still been able to make it work even when they were only middle tier. Get used to it. We all go through unfavorable patchings from time to time.
  3. Stop referencing that 11k health pool as if no one ever used options to bolster their health pool. <- This makes it look even MORE like you guys are sooooo used to the luxury of running Carrion at this point, that you've become desensitized to what Guardian health pools looked like before Carrion Burn was a thing.
  4. That guy didn't debunk anything. All he did was encourage the idea that "Guardian has no reliable damage" which simply is not true at all.
  5. I don't need to prove anything. I run like 3 or 4 ATs a day, always making it to final rounds while winning half of the time and I get plenty of demonstration from the best players in the game of what their main classes are capable of. Oh you want proof? Ok, click the link in my signature. Follow what's happening in the ATs when I'm streaming.

Sounds like butthurt from someone that ate nerfs and just wants everything else nerfed. 'Buff my class and nerf everything else.'

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Is burn DH really dead? I was testing the damage on it and it seems strong still. The damage is less extreme than it was, but it's certainly still there. Seems about on par with burn weaver's dps, but more AoE teamfight oriented.

That, and the nerf of SoJ from 4 charges to 3 with a 5 second CD still leaves it a much stronger skill than traited arcane blast. Not saying it's op in comparison to arcane blast (they serve different purposes), but putting it's damage into perspective, the skill is hardly destroyed either.

Surely we have to admit that 4 charges on a 16 second cooldown with a mere 1 seconds inbetween was a little bit silly? I would see guards spam this out blindly with little care of whether it hit or missed because the cooldown was so short and forgiving.

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@Kuma.1503 said:Is burn DH really dead? I was testing the damage on it and it seems strong still. The damage is less extreme than it was, but it's certainly still there. Seems about on par with burn weaver's dps, but more AoE teamfight oriented.

That, and the nerf of SoJ from 4 charges to 3 with a 5 second CD still leaves it a much stronger skill than traited arcane blast. Not saying it's op in comparison to arcane blast (they serve different purposes), but putting it's damage into perspective, the skill is hardly destroyed either.

Surely we have to admit that 4 charges on a 16 second cooldown with a mere 1 seconds inbetween was a little bit silly? I would see guards spam this out blindly with little care of whether it hit or missed because the cooldown was so short and forgiving.

good maw will still 1shot entire enemy team in 1-2s, its just gonna make DH kinda wimpy in smaller scale fights.

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@"Kuma.1503" said:Is burn DH really dead? I was testing the damage on it and it seems strong still. The damage is less extreme than it was, but it's certainly still there. Seems about on par with burn weaver's dps, but more AoE teamfight oriented.

That, and the nerf of SoJ from 4 charges to 3 with a 5 second CD still leaves it a much stronger skill than traited arcane blast. Not saying it's op in comparison to arcane blast (they serve different purposes), but putting it's damage into perspective, the skill is hardly destroyed either.

Surely we have to admit that 4 charges on a 16 second cooldown with a mere 1 seconds inbetween was a little bit silly? I would see guards spam this out blindly with little care of whether it hit or missed because the cooldown was so short and forgiving.

It was a 1 charge per 16 seconds with a 4 charge buffer. That's completely different.I'll leave wether the skill or the build is strong to you people to discuss, because I don't think so. The only fix needed was the Maw port bug.But I'm glad it got nerfed as I never enjoyed playing it and it farmed bad players way too hard.

And that seems to be a common theme whenever guard has a "viable" dps build. Wether it was core burn back in 2015, dh in early HoT, 2018s hammer guard and to a lesser extent, burn dh.These builds all absolutely farmed ranked. But saw very little, to no play in actual high-tier games. (With the exception of burn dh)

Why is this? Is it because good players can just outplay Guards? Is it because there are no good guardian players? Or is it because of outdated mechanics and an emphasis on tracking issues and issues landing your abilities vs moving targets?

I wish I could share a clip I had up on my twitch (which got dmca'd). I had a long talk with Cmc and Arken about this issue (probably a 4 hour conversation) in particular.How gs5 misses point blank, how Scepter auto can be negated by strafing or simply out-ran with swiftness and a 400 unit headstart. How most guard projectiles are stuck to the ground, such as sword 3, Hammer 3, and torch 4. Where if anyone just stands on elevated terrain, you can't use these abilities.

I agree that guard has a ton of damage still. Probably even too much, the issue is landing it.This makes it a nightmare to balance, because on one hand. It can obliterate entire teams if they aren't aware, while it will do absolutely nothing vs people with spacial awareness.

I suggested a while back in the backroom cmc talks that we make Scepter auto always hit (think engi rifle auto) but reduce the damage by 66%-75%. The fact that this would be a buff to your overall damage output kind of proves how difficult it is to balance a skill that hits about 1 in 6 attacks. (Yes, I actually counted this over the span of 5 games)

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@Math.5123 said:

@"Kuma.1503" said:Is burn DH really dead? I was testing the damage on it and it seems strong still. The damage is less extreme than it was, but it's certainly still there. Seems about on par with burn weaver's dps, but more AoE teamfight oriented.

That, and the nerf of SoJ from 4 charges to 3 with a 5 second CD still leaves it a much stronger skill than traited arcane blast. Not saying it's op in comparison to arcane blast (they serve different purposes), but putting it's damage into perspective, the skill is hardly destroyed either.

Surely we have to admit that 4 charges on a 16 second cooldown with a mere 1 seconds inbetween was a little bit silly? I would see guards spam this out blindly with little care of whether it hit or missed because the cooldown was so short and forgiving.

It was a 1 charge per 16 seconds with a 4 charge buffer. That's completely different.I'll leave wether the skill or the build is strong to you people to discuss, because I don't think so. The only fix needed was the Maw port bug.But I'm glad it got nerfed as I never enjoyed playing it and it farmed bad players way too hard.

And that seems to be a common theme whenever guard has a "viable" dps build. Wether it was core burn back in 2015, dh in early HoT, 2018s hammer guard and to a lesser extent, burn dh.These builds all absolutely farmed ranked. But saw very little, to no play in actual high-tier games. (With the exception of burn dh)

Why is this? Is it because good players can just outplay Guards? Is it because there are no good guardian players? Or is it because of outdated mechanics and an emphasis on tracking issues and issues landing your abilities vs moving targets?

I wish I could share a clip I had up on my twitch (which got dmca'd). I had a long talk with Cmc and Arken about this issue (probably a 4 hour conversation) in particular.How gs5 misses point blank, how Scepter auto can be negated by strafing or simply out-ran with swiftness and a 400 unit headstart. How most guard projectiles are stuck to the ground, such as sword 3, Hammer 3, and torch 4. Where if anyone just stands on elevated terrain, you can't use these abilities.

I agree that guard has a ton of damage still. Probably even too much, the issue is landing it.This makes it a nightmare to balance, because on one hand. It can obliterate entire teams if they aren't aware, while it will do absolutely nothing vs people with spacial awareness.

I suggested a while back in the backroom cmc talks that we make Scepter auto always hit (think engi rifle auto) but reduce the damage by 66%-75%. The fact that this would be a buff to your overall damage output kind of proves how difficult it is to balance a skill that hits about 1 in 6 attacks. (Yes, I actually counted this over the span of 5 games)

Could you please share a decent current guard build if possible?

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@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

@lotus.5672 said:power guardian is fine

Saying the exact opposite without any explanation is no argument

Nah

I've been seeing oldschool power burst core in ATs lately. They still work fine. It's not that power burst was ever bad, it's that burn builds were able to be tweaked in such a way that they had similar damage output to power bust but also 4x the sustain factor.

Burn on Guards is fine. You guys just aren't used to dealing realistic in-line damage output. You're used to outputting this tremendously high pressure where 2 stacks of AoE burn that hits 5 targets can chunk 70% off everyone's life bar. It has made you desensitized to what balanced damage output is supposed to feel like.

Actually no - when you have one skill that does burst damage per weapon swap and the rest is symbols no one will ever stay in, control effects and support skills you have no way of bursting someone down - this is the reason why Guards swapped to Burn DH right after symbols were nerfed into uselessness. We have GS 2 & 3, Sword 3, LB 3, Mace 3, Hammer 2, rest doesn‘t contribute whatsoever to bursting someone down.I like seeing Burn DH gone, but we have to admit that Power Guards are big jokes with 11K HP, bad tooltip numbers and extreme low mobility to land skills. Whoever loses a 1v1 to a Power Guard in this meta should consider to change the game mode

Also no, in fact I haven‘t played burn DH a single time the last 2 seasons, so your „you guys are desensitized“ doesn‘t really make sense. I say power damage on Guard is garbage, because it actually is when 4/5 of your skills are support skills, control effects or avoidable by walking for a quarter second in case of symbols

Nothing you mentioned at all is even a typical burst. I'm not talking about node hold symbol fbs, I'm talking about Power Core Burst Guards.

You know, when a bunch of kitten stacked together that when executed correctly, lands a burst similar to a berserker/eagle sic em soulbeast with one wolf pack stated for damage:
  1. Select target in the team fight
  2. Prime Focus 5
  3. Hit target with Focus 4
  4. Land your Scepter 2 - If not using Scepter skip to 5
  5. Swap to GS and begin cast animation of GS 4, then use JI to target in team fight
  6. As animation on GS 4 finishes under the target, Focus 5 will explode dealing damage, right as you are using GS 2 spin to win

^ This build still works. People just weren't using it because FB was OP for awhile and then the OP swapped to Core burns & supports and DH. I didn't say Power Burst Core was OP, I said it still works fine in a balanced way. Although it isn't a big fat side node beast, it is a powerful team fighter and + while with supports.

I'll say it again, Guardian players are complaining right now because they've been riding the OP top 3 meta train for a very very very long time at this point. Time to experience some good old fashioned middle tiered balance like the rest of us.

As a guardian main, who predominately played core, what you just described does not remotely work. You ain’t fighting a training golem here. The only time this worked is back in the good days pre RI nerf. And core power guardian lost further survivability, and it had bad survivability to begin with.

I could pull any class and show you a combo that does ridiculous damage. That does not make it remotely viable to execute in spvp.

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@Math.5123 said:

@"Kuma.1503" said:Is burn DH really dead? I was testing the damage on it and it seems strong still. The damage is less extreme than it was, but it's certainly still there. Seems about on par with burn weaver's dps, but more AoE teamfight oriented.

That, and the nerf of SoJ from 4 charges to 3 with a 5 second CD still leaves it a much stronger skill than traited arcane blast. Not saying it's op in comparison to arcane blast (they serve different purposes), but putting it's damage into perspective, the skill is hardly destroyed either.

Surely we have to admit that 4 charges on a 16 second cooldown with a mere 1 seconds inbetween was a little bit silly? I would see guards spam this out blindly with little care of whether it hit or missed because the cooldown was so short and forgiving.

It was a 1 charge per 16 seconds with a 4 charge buffer. That's completely different.I'll leave wether the skill or the build is strong to you people to discuss, because I don't think so. The only fix needed was the Maw port bug.But I'm glad it got nerfed as I never enjoyed playing it and it farmed bad players way too hard.

And that seems to be a common theme whenever guard has a "viable" dps build. Wether it was core burn back in 2015, dh in early HoT, 2018s hammer guard and to a lesser extent, burn dh.These builds all absolutely farmed ranked. But saw very little, to no play in actual high-tier games. (With the exception of burn dh)

Why is this? Is it because good players can just outplay Guards? Is it because there are no good guardian players? Or is it because of outdated mechanics and an emphasis on tracking issues and issues landing your abilities vs moving targets?

I wish I could share a clip I had up on my twitch (which got dmca'd). I had a long talk with Cmc and Arken about this issue (probably a 4 hour conversation) in particular.How gs5 misses point blank, how Scepter auto can be negated by strafing or simply out-ran with swiftness and a 400 unit headstart. How most guard projectiles are stuck to the ground, such as sword 3, Hammer 3, and torch 4. Where if anyone just stands on elevated terrain, you can't use these abilities.

I agree that guard has a ton of damage still. Probably even too much, the issue is landing it.This makes it a nightmare to balance, because on one hand. It can obliterate entire teams if they aren't aware, while it will do absolutely nothing vs people with spacial awareness.

I suggested a while back in the backroom cmc talks that we make Scepter auto always hit (think engi rifle auto) but reduce the damage by 66%-75%. The fact that this would be a buff to your overall damage output kind of proves how difficult it is to balance a skill that hits about 1 in 6 attacks. (Yes, I actually counted this over the span of 5 games)

@"Kuma.1503" said:Is burn DH really dead? I was testing the damage on it and it seems strong still. The damage is less extreme than it was, but it's certainly still there. Seems about on par with burn weaver's dps, but more AoE teamfight oriented.

That, and the nerf of SoJ from 4 charges to 3 with a 5 second CD still leaves it a much stronger skill than traited arcane blast. Not saying it's op in comparison to arcane blast (they serve different purposes), but putting it's damage into perspective, the skill is hardly destroyed either.

Surely we have to admit that 4 charges on a 16 second cooldown with a mere 1 seconds inbetween was a little bit silly? I would see guards spam this out blindly with little care of whether it hit or missed because the cooldown was so short and forgiving.

It was a 1 charge per 16 seconds with a 4 charge buffer. That's completely different.I'll leave wether the skill or the build is strong to you people to discuss, because I don't think so. The only fix needed was the Maw port bug.But I'm glad it got nerfed as I never enjoyed playing it and it farmed bad players way too hard.

And that seems to be a common theme whenever guard has a "viable" dps build. Wether it was core burn back in 2015, dh in early HoT, 2018s hammer guard and to a lesser extent, burn dh.These builds all absolutely farmed ranked. But saw very little, to no play in actual high-tier games. (With the exception of burn dh)

Why is this? Is it because good players can just outplay Guards? Is it because there are no good guardian players? Or is it because of outdated mechanics and an emphasis on tracking issues and issues landing your abilities vs moving targets?

I wish I could share a clip I had up on my twitch (which got dmca'd). I had a long talk with Cmc and Arken about this issue (probably a 4 hour conversation) in particular.How gs5 misses point blank, how Scepter auto can be negated by strafing or simply out-ran with swiftness and a 400 unit headstart. How most guard projectiles are stuck to the ground, such as sword 3, Hammer 3, and torch 4. Where if anyone just stands on elevated terrain, you can't use these abilities.

I agree that guard has a ton of damage still. Probably even too much, the issue is landing it.This makes it a nightmare to balance, because on one hand. It can obliterate entire teams if they aren't aware, while it will do absolutely nothing vs people with spacial awareness.

I suggested a while back in the backroom cmc talks that we make Scepter auto always hit (think engi rifle auto) but reduce the damage by 66%-75%. The fact that this would be a buff to your overall damage output kind of proves how difficult it is to balance a skill that hits about 1 in 6 attacks. (Yes, I actually counted this over the span of 5 games)

Sounds like Guardian's kit could use the Renegade shortbow treatment.

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