Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Lightning Rod gets the Impacting Disruption Treatment when?

SteepledHat.1345

By SteepledHat.1345
in Player vs. Player

 Share

Recommended Posts

UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

Posted
Posted

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

Look on PI :https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pulmonary_Impact_(trait_skill)#WvW.2CPvPDamage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

Oh wow, you really have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
  • Replies 116
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Captain Kuro.8937

Captain Kuro.8937

Posted
Posted

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

Oh wow, you
really
have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power 0,75 you haveIt used to do 872 and you get bonus damage based on much Power 2.0 you had

Link to comment
Share on other sites
UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

Posted
Posted

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

Oh wow, you
really
have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have

No. It just deals 199 damage. The coefficient is just there so you know how that number is obtained. There is no base damage in GW2. Its just your coefficient times whatever the formula uses to calculate your power. Again, you just dont know how the game works.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Captain Kuro.8937

Captain Kuro.8937

Posted
Posted

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

Oh wow, you
really
have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have

No. It just deals 199 damage. The coefficient is just there so you know how that number is obtained. There is no base damage in GW2. Its just your coefficient times whatever the formula uses to calculate your power. Again, you just dont know how the game works.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power 0,75 you haveIt used to do 872 and you get bonus damage based on much Power 2.0 you had

Link to comment
Share on other sites
UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

Posted
Posted

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

Oh wow, you
really
have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have

No. It just deals 199 damage. The coefficient is just there so you know how that number is obtained. There is no base damage in GW2. Its just your coefficient times whatever the formula uses to calculate your power. Again, you just dont know how the game works.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power
0,75 you haveIt used to do 872 and you get bonus damage based on much Power
2.0 you had

Once again, repeating something wrong doesnt make it true, it just makes you look like a fool. There is no "bonus damage". 199 damage is the damage it does, 0.75 the coefficient used to calculate the 199 damage. Here, read through the wikis explanation of how its calculated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Captain Kuro.8937

Captain Kuro.8937

Posted
Posted

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

Oh wow, you
really
have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have

No. It just deals 199 damage. The coefficient is just there so you know how that number is obtained. There is no base damage in GW2. Its just your coefficient times whatever the formula uses to calculate your power. Again, you just dont know how the game works.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power
0,75 you haveIt used to do 872 and you get bonus damage based on much Power
2.0 you had

Once again, repeating something wrong doesnt make it true, it just makes you look like a fool. There is no "bonus damage". 199 damage is the damage it does, 0.75 the coefficient used to calculate the 199 damage.
, read through the wikis explanation of how its calculated.

Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the resultsThen equip the Berseker Amulet

Link to comment
Share on other sites
UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

Posted
Posted

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

Oh wow, you
really
have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have

No. It just deals 199 damage. The coefficient is just there so you know how that number is obtained. There is no base damage in GW2. Its just your coefficient times whatever the formula uses to calculate your power. Again, you just dont know how the game works.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power
0,75 you haveIt used to do 872 and you get bonus damage based on much Power
2.0 you had

Once again, repeating something wrong doesnt make it true, it just makes you look like a fool. There is no "bonus damage". 199 damage is the damage it does, 0.75 the coefficient used to calculate the 199 damage.
, read through the wikis explanation of how its calculated.

Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the results

Do it yourself. Youre trying to prove that youre not completely wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Captain Kuro.8937

Captain Kuro.8937

Posted
Posted

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

Oh wow, you
really
have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have

No. It just deals 199 damage. The coefficient is just there so you know how that number is obtained. There is no base damage in GW2. Its just your coefficient times whatever the formula uses to calculate your power. Again, you just dont know how the game works.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power
0,75 you haveIt used to do 872 and you get bonus damage based on much Power
2.0 you had

Once again, repeating something wrong doesnt make it true, it just makes you look like a fool. There is no "bonus damage". 199 damage is the damage it does, 0.75 the coefficient used to calculate the 199 damage.
, read through the wikis explanation of how its calculated.

Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the results

Do it yourself. Youre trying to prove that youre not completely wrong.

Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the resultsThen equip the Berseker AmuletDo the same with https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Napalm (spoilers , it stills does 42 damage , even with Berseker Amulet)

I am relaxing in Smite atm , so i can't :(

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Kuma.1503

Kuma.1503

Posted
Posted

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

Oh wow, you
really
have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have

No. It just deals 199 damage. The coefficient is just there so you know how that number is obtained. There is no base damage in GW2. Its just your coefficient times whatever the formula uses to calculate your power. Again, you just dont know how the game works.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power
0,75 you haveIt used to do 872 and you get bonus damage based on much Power
2.0 you had

Once again, repeating something wrong doesnt make it true, it just makes you look like a fool. There is no "bonus damage". 199 damage is the damage it does, 0.75 the coefficient used to calculate the 199 damage.
, read through the wikis explanation of how its calculated.

Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the resultsThen equip the Berseker Amulet

He's right. Damage in GW2 is not like healing. There are no base values. We have weapon strength and damage coefficients. The reason why you still deal damage with no gear is because all level 80 characters have 1000 power an 5% crit chance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

Posted
Posted

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

Oh wow, you
really
have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have

No. It just deals 199 damage. The coefficient is just there so you know how that number is obtained. There is no base damage in GW2. Its just your coefficient times whatever the formula uses to calculate your power. Again, you just dont know how the game works.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power
0,75 you haveIt used to do 872 and you get bonus damage based on much Power
2.0 you had

Once again, repeating something wrong doesnt make it true, it just makes you look like a fool. There is no "bonus damage". 199 damage is the damage it does, 0.75 the coefficient used to calculate the 199 damage.
, read through the wikis explanation of how its calculated.

Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the results

Do it yourself. Youre trying to prove that youre not completely wrong.

Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the resultsThen equip the Berseker Amulet

I am relaxing in Smite atm , so i can't :(

Then you can just accept that you are wrong. I won't bother doing your work for you, especially since you keep ignoring all evidence that shows you are wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Grimjack.8130

Grimjack.8130

Posted
Posted

nerf lightning rod this spec that has 12k hp is 99% melee range and is lgiht armor is overperforming into my holo that has just as many 5k crits that lightning rod does but from 900 range and is just as fast without even trying to spec into it and actually has condi cleanse D:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Captain Kuro.8937

Captain Kuro.8937

Posted
Posted

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

Oh wow, you
really
have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have

No. It just deals 199 damage. The coefficient is just there so you know how that number is obtained. There is no base damage in GW2. Its just your coefficient times whatever the formula uses to calculate your power. Again, you just dont know how the game works.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power
0,75 you haveIt used to do 872 and you get bonus damage based on much Power
2.0 you had

Once again, repeating something wrong doesnt make it true, it just makes you look like a fool. There is no "bonus damage". 199 damage is the damage it does, 0.75 the coefficient used to calculate the 199 damage.
, read through the wikis explanation of how its calculated.

Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the results

Do it yourself. Youre trying to prove that youre not completely wrong.

Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the resultsThen equip the Berseker Amulet

I am relaxing in Smite atm , so i can't :(

Then you can just accept that you are wrong. I won't bother doing your work for you, especially since you keep ignoring all evidence that shows you are wrong.

You deal 215 at Svanir with off-pistol , while without a weapon (no weapon modifiers) ,and instead using Distracting Daggers you gonna deal 213 .Do the same with https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Napalm or https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vault

Guardian's Sword of Justice (PvE 80) , in open world , behaves the same

Link to comment
Share on other sites
UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

Posted
Posted

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

Oh wow, you
really
have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have

No. It just deals 199 damage. The coefficient is just there so you know how that number is obtained. There is no base damage in GW2. Its just your coefficient times whatever the formula uses to calculate your power. Again, you just dont know how the game works.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power
0,75 you haveIt used to do 872 and you get bonus damage based on much Power
2.0 you had

Once again, repeating something wrong doesnt make it true, it just makes you look like a fool. There is no "bonus damage". 199 damage is the damage it does, 0.75 the coefficient used to calculate the 199 damage.
, read through the wikis explanation of how its calculated.

Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the results

Do it yourself. Youre trying to prove that youre not completely wrong.

Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the resultsThen equip the Berseker Amulet

I am relaxing in Smite atm , so i can't :(

Then you can just accept that you are wrong. I won't bother doing your work for you, especially since you keep ignoring all evidence that shows you are wrong.

You deal 215 at Svanir with off-pistol , while without a weapon (no weapon modifiers) ,and instead using Distracting Daggers you gonna deal 213 .Do the same with
or

Guardian's Sword of Justice (PvE 80) , in open world , behaves the same

You do realise that if it actually cared about the weapon modifier, the difference would be a lot larger than 2%, right? It doesnt look at your weapon strength. You most likely had a 1% damage up from some effect you didnt notice. Maybe a DA trait. Either way, again, this isnt how it works.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Captain Kuro.8937

Captain Kuro.8937

Posted
Posted

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

Oh wow, you
really
have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have

No. It just deals 199 damage. The coefficient is just there so you know how that number is obtained. There is no base damage in GW2. Its just your coefficient times whatever the formula uses to calculate your power. Again, you just dont know how the game works.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power
0,75 you haveIt used to do 872 and you get bonus damage based on much Power
2.0 you had

Once again, repeating something wrong doesnt make it true, it just makes you look like a fool. There is no "bonus damage". 199 damage is the damage it does, 0.75 the coefficient used to calculate the 199 damage.
, read through the wikis explanation of how its calculated.

Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the results

Do it yourself. Youre trying to prove that youre not completely wrong.

Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the resultsThen equip the Berseker Amulet

I am relaxing in Smite atm , so i can't :(

Then you can just accept that you are wrong. I won't bother doing your work for you, especially since you keep ignoring all evidence that shows you are wrong.

You deal 215 at Svanir with off-pistol , while without a weapon (no weapon modifiers) ,and instead using Distracting Daggers you gonna deal 213 .Do the same with
or

Guardian's Sword of Justice (PvE 80) , in open world , behaves the same

You do realise that if it actually cared about the weapon modifier, the difference would be a lot larger than 2%, right? It doesnt look at your weapon strength. You most likely had a 1% damage up from some effect you didnt notice. Maybe a DA trait. Either way, again, this isnt how it works.

I am sorry ...I thought we where arguing the formula , of : Weapon Power 0,76/Armor ...If we exlude the Weapon , then the formula would look like : --- Power(2200 (1000baseline+1200Berseker)) 0,75 /1000 =1,16 damageEither theres something wrong with the formula , or baseline theres some damage , that get bonus from your Power/Condition

Link to comment
Share on other sites
UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

Posted
Posted

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

Oh wow, you
really
have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have

No. It just deals 199 damage. The coefficient is just there so you know how that number is obtained. There is no base damage in GW2. Its just your coefficient times whatever the formula uses to calculate your power. Again, you just dont know how the game works.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power
0,75 you haveIt used to do 872 and you get bonus damage based on much Power
2.0 you had

Once again, repeating something wrong doesnt make it true, it just makes you look like a fool. There is no "bonus damage". 199 damage is the damage it does, 0.75 the coefficient used to calculate the 199 damage.
, read through the wikis explanation of how its calculated.

Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the results

Do it yourself. Youre trying to prove that youre not completely wrong.

Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the resultsThen equip the Berseker Amulet

I am relaxing in Smite atm , so i can't :(

Then you can just accept that you are wrong. I won't bother doing your work for you, especially since you keep ignoring all evidence that shows you are wrong.

You deal 215 at Svanir with off-pistol , while without a weapon (no weapon modifiers) ,and instead using Distracting Daggers you gonna deal 213 .Do the same with
or

Guardian's Sword of Justice (PvE 80) , in open world , behaves the same

You do realise that if it actually cared about the weapon modifier, the difference would be a lot larger than 2%, right? It doesnt look at your weapon strength. You most likely had a 1% damage up from some effect you didnt notice. Maybe a DA trait. Either way, again, this isnt how it works.

I am sorry ...I thought we where arguing the formula , of : Weapon
Power
0,76/Armor ...If we exlude the Weapon , then the formula would look like : ---
Power(2200 (1000baseline+1200Berseker))
0,75 /1000 =1,16 damageEither theres something wrong with the formula , or baseline theres some damage , that get bonus from your Power/Condition

Its not excluded, it just uses the average of all weapons, across all weapons. There isnt anything wrong with the formula, nor is there base damage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Captain Kuro.8937

Captain Kuro.8937

Posted
Posted

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

Oh wow, you
really
have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have

No. It just deals 199 damage. The coefficient is just there so you know how that number is obtained. There is no base damage in GW2. Its just your coefficient times whatever the formula uses to calculate your power. Again, you just dont know how the game works.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power
0,75 you haveIt used to do 872 and you get bonus damage based on much Power
2.0 you had

Once again, repeating something wrong doesnt make it true, it just makes you look like a fool. There is no "bonus damage". 199 damage is the damage it does, 0.75 the coefficient used to calculate the 199 damage.
, read through the wikis explanation of how its calculated.

Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the results

Do it yourself. Youre trying to prove that youre not completely wrong.

Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the resultsThen equip the Berseker Amulet

I am relaxing in Smite atm , so i can't :(

Then you can just accept that you are wrong. I won't bother doing your work for you, especially since you keep ignoring all evidence that shows you are wrong.

You deal 215 at Svanir with off-pistol , while without a weapon (no weapon modifiers) ,and instead using Distracting Daggers you gonna deal 213 .Do the same with
or

Guardian's Sword of Justice (PvE 80) , in open world , behaves the same

You do realise that if it actually cared about the weapon modifier, the difference would be a lot larger than 2%, right? It doesnt look at your weapon strength. You most likely had a 1% damage up from some effect you didnt notice. Maybe a DA trait. Either way, again, this isnt how it works.

I am sorry ...I thought we where arguing the formula , of : Weapon
Power
0,76/Armor ...If we exlude the Weapon , then the formula would look like : ---
Power(2200 (1000baseline+1200Berseker))
0,75 /1000 =1,16 damageEither theres something wrong with the formula , or baseline theres some damage , that get bonus from your Power/Condition

Its not excluded, it just uses the average of all weapons, across all weapons. There isnt anything wrong with the formula, nor is there base damage.

But as i said, i didn't use the weapon (for the modifier) and i got 213, same with a Weapon :(The same results happened in PvE with the Summoned Swords

So theres a baseline damage + bonus based on Power and thats how , the combo of PI hit-ed for 2900-3200 in PvP

Otherwise the other solutions ,are :a) (no weapon) 1000 baseline 075/1000 Armor = 0,75average damage and you are using hacks to deal 210 damage .or(no weapon) 1000 0,75 = 750 average damage and the enemy has 66% damage reduction for that specific attack and forcing you to deal 250 damage with PIor850 (weapon) 1000 0,75/1000 (armor) = 637 average damage and the enemy has 66% damage reduction for that specific attack and forcing you to deal 212 damage with PIor1050 1000 0,75 /1000 = 787 average damage and the enemy has 66% damage reduction for that specific attack and forcing you to deal 262 damage with PI

Can we move , if Dash is an offensive or Defensive spell ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
UNOwen.7132

UNOwen.7132

Posted
Posted

@Captain Kuro.8937 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

Oh wow, you
really
have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have

No. It just deals 199 damage. The coefficient is just there so you know how that number is obtained. There is no base damage in GW2. Its just your coefficient times whatever the formula uses to calculate your power. Again, you just dont know how the game works.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power
0,75 you haveIt used to do 872 and you get bonus damage based on much Power
2.0 you had

Once again, repeating something wrong doesnt make it true, it just makes you look like a fool. There is no "bonus damage". 199 damage is the damage it does, 0.75 the coefficient used to calculate the 199 damage.
, read through the wikis explanation of how its calculated.

Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the results

Do it yourself. Youre trying to prove that youre not completely wrong.

Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the resultsThen equip the Berseker Amulet

I am relaxing in Smite atm , so i can't :(

Then you can just accept that you are wrong. I won't bother doing your work for you, especially since you keep ignoring all evidence that shows you are wrong.

You deal 215 at Svanir with off-pistol , while without a weapon (no weapon modifiers) ,and instead using Distracting Daggers you gonna deal 213 .Do the same with
or

Guardian's Sword of Justice (PvE 80) , in open world , behaves the same

You do realise that if it actually cared about the weapon modifier, the difference would be a lot larger than 2%, right? It doesnt look at your weapon strength. You most likely had a 1% damage up from some effect you didnt notice. Maybe a DA trait. Either way, again, this isnt how it works.

I am sorry ...I thought we where arguing the formula , of : Weapon
Power
0,76/Armor ...If we exlude the Weapon , then the formula would look like : ---
Power(2200 (1000baseline+1200Berseker))
0,75 /1000 =1,16 damageEither theres something wrong with the formula , or baseline theres some damage , that get bonus from your Power/Condition

Its not excluded, it just uses the average of all weapons, across all weapons. There isnt anything wrong with the formula, nor is there base damage.

But as i said, i didn't use the weapon (for the modifier) and i got 213, same with a Weapon :(The same results happened in PvE with the Summoned Swords

Yes. Because it uses it across all weapons. Not all equipped weapons. All of them. Its basically based on the average weapon.

So theres a baseline damage + bonus based on Power and thats how , the combo of PI hit-ed for 2900-3200 in PvP

There isn't. You still don't know how the game works. And it never hit for over 1k damage, as I already proved.

Otherwise the other solutions ,are :a) (no weapon) 1000 baseline 075/1000 Armor = 0,75average damage and you are using hacks to deal 210 damage .or(no weapon) 1000 0,75 = 750 average damage and the enemy has 66% damage reduction for that specific attack and forcing you to deal 250 damage with PIor850 (weapon) 1000 0,75/1000 (armor) = 637 average damage and the enemy has 66% damage reduction for that specific attack and forcing you to deal 212 damage with PIor1050 1000 0,75 /1000 = 787 average damage and the enemy has 66% damage reduction for that specific attack and forcing you to deal 262 damage with PI

Or you dont know how the game works. Which we know you dont.

Can we move , if Dash is an offensive or Defensive spell ?

Its utility used for offense. End of story.

Now, accept that you were wrong. I wont reply to you again, because trying to teach you is impossible.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Captain Kuro.8937

Captain Kuro.8937

Posted
Posted

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

@"FrownyClown.8402" said:Remember when thief would duel with just offhand pistol and win?

Its a grandmaster trait that is not great on anything not running zerk stats. I doubt even LR weaver could pull it off these days. Also gl getting something not even meta to be touched. Threads like these are a waste of our brain cells. No major balance patch is gonna happen until EoD is released. Im just suprised you all arent jaded by anets lack of presence yet.

ahaha that was a good times :)Auto attack and using Pi for dealing 2100-2500 crit damage + the damage of the interupt spell

PI was never able to crit, and it never did 2100-2500 damage outside of super glass cannon builds with a lot of might in WvW. Maybe. It did around 1500-1800. Which for 4 initiative is on the lower end. Oh and that interrupt spell does no damage.

Maybe we should move PI , to an offensive tree , to restore its older glory ? Or does this kind of damage vs the 6th(heal)-10th(Lich-Rez) utilities spells ?

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. The issue is just that they seemingly don't want PI to be playable.

It hited for 2900-3200 with the normal damage + PI secondary effect + the normal damage from the headshot (crit included for the normal attacks)I just don't remember the minor trait that gave 5 Might (150 power) . Maybe it was Ogre runes , with the huge damage Rock pet ?

Those are numbers you maybe achieved in WvW with a lot of might stacking against an enemy with a fair amount of vulnerability. This was not achieved in PvP, basically ever. Also PI has no secondary effect. Also the headshot did practically no damage.

1800 was the 2020 version , without the 200 damage from using it +300 damage from the Headshot .

Nope. The 2020 version did roughly three times as much damage as the one we have now .The one we have now does roughly 300 damage. It did roughly 1000 damage, not 2000.

You should have seen it,it was hilarious . Too bad , we cant have nice things, in this snoozefestBut in the other hand , i got fond of playing support and i hope they will find a sweet spot , for a the combat

Maybe , it does increased damage if the Team score difference is 80-90 points ?Or its damage is increased every 1,5 min , while an improved version of it is on an offensive tree ?Edit: CMC senpai , hire me !

Daredevil
is
an offensive tree. I don't know why people keep missing that point, it seems rather obvious.

With 2.0 conf and 1200 Power from Berseker Amulet combined with the other normal attack of IP + the damage of Headshot , i cannot fathom , if did 1000 . Maybe in heavy Tanks + Protection , it might did .

Oh, double fun fact: 2.0 isnt correct, it was always bugged and is closer to 1.5. Or less than that even. I don't remember the exact number. Second, without critting, yeah it only did
. This shouldn't be all that surprising, really.

And lets be real , Daredevil is a Brawler spec .

Ok, lets be real. Its not.

Defense > Passively you gain extra dodge - Minor Trait

This is utility, not defense. Its also just thief getting back what it lost from Acrobatics.

Defense > Then you choose a defensive option , either more HP+10% damage reduction , or a way to counter Condition +Heal

This part is correct. Though I have to mention, this was added
much
later.

Defense> Passively you gain weakness on Dodge + 10% damage reduction

This is primarily good for the damage it adds. Not the defense.

Offense> Then you choose an offensive option

Correct.

Defense > Gain more endurance when you dodge , which is a diffensive option .

Utility, actually. Likewise, acrobatics.

Offense or Defense > Then you choose a defensive option or an offensive .But mostly people use the Defensive option, because it overshadow the others

Once again, utility. People don't use dash for defense, they use it for mobility.

But to perhaps make it
very
clear, how about a little thought experiment.

Imagine they took Daredevil, removed
all
damage increases, every single multiplier, and replaced them with more defenses. Do you think Daredevil would still be played? On the other hand, if you took daredevil, removed
all
of the defenses and replaced them with more damage. Do you think Daredevil would still be played?

If Daredevil was a "defensive/brawler/bruiser" traitline, obviously we would expect it to still see play in the first case, but not in the second. However, if you're honest with yourself, you will realise that if the first happened,
every single thief
would immediately drop the traitline, and it would join acrobatics in the "completely unused traitline hell". Well, maybe S/D would pick acrobatics again, so it would be alone. On the other hand, if the second happened, it would be used just as much as it already is. We already had that version of Daredevil. It was called "Daredevil for most of its existence". The truth is its a damage traitline, the few defenses it gives are just gravy.

Nope sorry , but you are wrong .

I am not.

If you look on
, where the site didn't update , PI does damage regardless of the of its secondary effect . It did 872 damage + 2.0 confiency .

Ok, try going into a game, and use Mug, and PI, on the same target. They have the same coefficient, so they clearly do the same amount of damage, right? Yeah turns out they don't. PI does a lot less.

And i am sorry again , but 83, 3 % of the spells are classified as Defensive

No, actually, only 16.6666% are. You simply misclassified a lot of others. On the other hand, 50% are offensive.

I am sorry again , but 892 normal damage + the effect from the PI + normal damage from Headshot dealt the damage i described to you .I am sorry you where wrong :)

Fun fact: tooltip damage is often wrong. Again, try it out yourself. You won't, because you know you're wrong, but don't talk if you don't try it out. And yknow, I literally
showed you a video showing it only did 1k damage
.

If you choose a Brawler (50% damage) or an Defenince option is up to you , but lets not kid ourself, most use it to the 83,3% Defensive Option

Its not brawler. Its offensive. 50% damage-related traits and the rest utiltiy is a typical damage traitline. And you are kidding yourself if you think thieves are picking Daredevil for the defense. Again, remove all the defense, every thief still uses it. Remove all the offense,
no
thief uses it anymore. Its an offensive traitline. End of story.

You didn't show me anything . You show a a dude precasting Pistowhip and pushing the steal .I guided you to a top site that all the community used to go there . There was no mistakes , but slow to change something after an update

I showed you a player, using PI, interrupting an enemy, and that PI then detonating for, lets see, oh what a surprise. 1024 damage. What you showed is that the shown number used by those sites is wrong, because its based on the same bug. But hey, how about something simple. Currently, Mug officially has the same coefficient as PI. 0.75. So, they obviously should both do the same damage, right? Well, no. PI does significantly less damage. If you use both on the mesmer bot in PvP, Mug does 635, PI does 490. And on regular players, the gap widens.

I am sorry again you are wrong , 83,3% are classified as selfish Survibility Tools , aka Defensive .

Nope. Thats what you classified it as, but you also got things
completely
wrong, so no. In reality, 50% are classified as selfish damage tools, aka offense. 16,66667% are classified as defensive tools. The rest utility.

The dash offer mobility + 10% damage reduction . Its not Utility to pretect your freind , neither Offense

The 10% damage reduction is irrelevant. What it offers is more movement and swiftness. Thats utility. You use that utility primarily to get to enemies faster to kill them. Which makes it more offensive than defensive.

I am sorry , but you didn't show me . I was the one giving the hard evidence with the 872 front-loaded damage + 2.0 conf after-skill .

. Can you not read? You on the other hand gave no evidence at all. First of all, PI only has
1
instance of damage, second of all, the 2.0 coefficient was a lot lower than that. As I have repeatedly explained to you. But apparently you have a hard time underestanding even something as simple as that.

And dash that don't offer anything to your fellow teammate or interact with him , is a straight up Defensive option to be used by the user ONLY and not Offensive , nor anyone else to benefit from that (Utility).

Utility is what you benefit from. You're thinking of support. Its also not a defensive option, its an offensive option. Its used to rotate faster to +1 and decap faster. For defense, its terrible.

I am sorry again , that you where wrong :)

You're the one who was wrong. And frankly I'm not sorry you're wrong, given how stubborn you are while having genuinely not even the
slightest
clue.

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 confThen with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014So my original Calculations were true .Thank you for your help .

Oh, I see, you don't understand how the game works. At all. First of all, thats 635 on the bots, which have less armour than players. Second, as I said, Mugs damage is
higher
than PI. PIs damage on a player right now is 300. With the previous state it did 3 times as much. Thats 1000. So it did 1000 damage,
exactly as we saw on the video
. There is also no frontloaded damage (I assume this again is you not understanding the game at all). So your calculations were as wrong as they could be. Not surprising, as we just learned, you don't know the game after all. At all.

And Dash is a defensive option .

It isnt, but again, as we know, you don't know the game. So its not surprising you get it wrong.

Daredevil as a whole can be 50-50 (Brawler) or 83,3% Defensive one .

Wrong. As always, since you dont know how the game works. Daredevil is an offensive traitline. End of story. There is no "50-50" or "83.3%". These are numbers you pulled out of your lack of understanding of how the game works.

Maybe your imaginary data , shows otherwise ?:)

Funny coming from the guy who, again,
doesn't understand how the game works
.

The bots , have the same armor as players .If you could do 3300 to bots ,you can on players .If they have Toughness you would do less ofc .

They don't. But again, we get it. You don't know how the game works. You don't need to repeat that you don't know how the game works in 20 different ways. We got it already.

Thank you to validating myself with the results . You knew it yourself deep down , and i helped you to bring it up to the surface

Wait are you ... are you rejecting reality and substituting your fantasy? You got everything completely wrong. Not a single thing you said was validated. You were in fact disproven so thoroughly there isnt much to add. Yet you think somehow you were right?

Yeah , because we calculated the damage (with your help) , and the original post about 2900-3300 damage , checks out .I remember someone telling , that those high number could not be made in PvP , but i don't remember who .

No, we didnt. You threw some random numbers at a wall, based on your complete lack of knowledge of how the game even remotely works, and thought you showed that you were right. All you actually showed was that you were clueless. We have the true numbers for the damage. I showed you. Its 1000 damage. 2000 definitely wasnt achievable. Are you done denying reality?

As you said , Mug does 635 damage with 0,75 conf

Against bots which have less armour, and take more damage as a result. Also, Mug does more damage than PI. As I have been trying to explain to you, but evidently you lack the capability to understand.

Then with 2.0 , it would do 1692 .

Based on wrong numbers, ergo a false result.

1692+ 872 front-loaded damage +450(crit) Headshot =3014

There is no front-loaded damage. Your numbers are very,
very
wrong. Now will you finally admit that you were talking about things you apparently are physically incapable of comprehending, that you were wrong in every single aspect, and that you should never have even written a single word about this, or will you keep trying to dance around that fact?

Npc , have the same Armor as player . So you are wrong:)

Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it true, it just makes you look like a fool.

Look on PI :
Damage: 199 (0.75)199 front-loaded damage ,that used to do 8720,75 conf ,that used to be 2.0 .So you are wrong again :)

Oh wow, you
really
have no clue about how the game works. Thats not "frontloaded damage". Thats what the coefficient corresponds to with average weapons and stats at that level. Its basically the tooltip damage. Basically what the wiki is saying is that PI does 199 damage now and 875 damage before. Which is lower than it actually was.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power * 0,75 you have

No. It just deals 199 damage. The coefficient is just there so you know how that number is obtained. There is no base damage in GW2. Its just your coefficient times whatever the formula uses to calculate your power. Again, you just dont know how the game works.

It deals 199 damage , and you get bonus damage based on much Power
0,75 you haveIt used to do 872 and you get bonus damage based on much Power
2.0 you had

Once again, repeating something wrong doesnt make it true, it just makes you look like a fool. There is no "bonus damage". 199 damage is the damage it does, 0.75 the coefficient used to calculate the 199 damage.
, read through the wikis explanation of how its calculated.

Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the results

Do it yourself. Youre trying to prove that youre not completely wrong.

Go in the heart of the mist and unequip everything . Cast PI and tell me the resultsThen equip the Berseker Amulet

I am relaxing in Smite atm , so i can't :(

Then you can just accept that you are wrong. I won't bother doing your work for you, especially since you keep ignoring all evidence that shows you are wrong.

You deal 215 at Svanir with off-pistol , while without a weapon (no weapon modifiers) ,and instead using Distracting Daggers you gonna deal 213 .Do the same with
or

Guardian's Sword of Justice (PvE 80) , in open world , behaves the same

You do realise that if it actually cared about the weapon modifier, the difference would be a lot larger than 2%, right? It doesnt look at your weapon strength. You most likely had a 1% damage up from some effect you didnt notice. Maybe a DA trait. Either way, again, this isnt how it works.

I am sorry ...I thought we where arguing the formula , of : Weapon
Power
0,76/Armor ...If we exlude the Weapon , then the formula would look like : ---
Power(2200 (1000baseline+1200Berseker))
0,75 /1000 =1,16 damageEither theres something wrong with the formula , or baseline theres some damage , that get bonus from your Power/Condition

Its not excluded, it just uses the average of all weapons, across all weapons. There isnt anything wrong with the formula, nor is there base damage.

But as i said, i didn't use the weapon (for the modifier) and i got 213, same with a Weapon :(The same results happened in PvE with the Summoned Swords

Yes. Because it uses it across
all
weapons. Not all equipped weapons. All of them. Its basically based on the average weapon.

So theres a baseline damage + bonus based on Power and thats how , the combo of PI hit-ed for 2900-3200 in PvP

There isn't. You still don't know how the game works. And it never hit for over 1k damage, as I already proved.

Otherwise the other solutions ,are :a) (no weapon)
1000 baseline
075/1000 Armor = 0,75
average
damage and you are using hacks to deal 210 damage .or(no weapon)
1000
0,75 = 750
average
damage and the enemy has 66% damage reduction for that specific attack and forcing you to deal 250 damage with PIor850 (weapon)
1000
0,75/1000 (armor) = 637
average
damage and the enemy has 66% damage reduction for that specific attack and forcing you to deal 212 damage with PIor1050
1000
0,75 /1000 = 787
average
damage and the enemy has 66% damage reduction for that specific attack and forcing you to deal 262 damage with PI

Or you dont know how the game works. Which we know you dont.

Can we move , if Dash is an offensive or Defensive spell ?

Its utility used for offense. End of story.

Now, accept that you were wrong. I wont reply to you again, because trying to teach you is impossible.

You think that the site list PI , doing 199 damage because it is the "average" dps .I stated my formula where even or PvP or PvE , weapon/gear or not , the result its the sameIts 199 Baseline damage , with bonus damage based on how much extra Power from Amulet you get .How much "actual total damage" will get the victim , is a different theory

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Stand The Wall.6987

Stand The Wall.6987

Posted
Posted

@Stallic.2397 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:are people really trying to say cc's are defensive lol...

For some classes, absolutely.

Fear for example. A condition/cc that keeps enemies away from you. How is that not defensive?

soft cc like cripple and chill sure. knockbacks/ stuns can be used to cover a cast or run away, but most of the time they are used to setup bursts. everyone knows this, not gonna get into it lol.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Kodama.6453

Kodama.6453

Posted
Posted

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:are people really trying to say cc's are defensive lol...

Who said CC is defensive?

If you are referencing me, I said daredevil is a bruiser spec and the main function of bruiser specs is lockdown through CC and tankiness. Just like scrapper and spellbreaker, as the other bruiser specs, also have quite alot of CC.

CC is not directly a defensive mechanic, but it oftenly is associated with tanks. Just look at tanks from other games.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Stallic.2397

Stallic.2397

Posted
Posted

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:are people really trying to say cc's are defensive lol...

For some classes, absolutely.

Fear for example. A condition/cc that keeps enemies away from you. How is that not defensive?

soft cc like cripple and chill sure. knockbacks/ stuns can be used to cover a cast or run away, but most of the time they are used to setup bursts. everyone knows this, not gonna get into it lol.

Sounds very subjective. Not consistent enough to make a point

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Captain Kuro.8937

Captain Kuro.8937

Posted
Posted

@"Kuma.1503" said:I guess you cant be wrong if you ignore any contradictory evidence...

CC skills deal 7 damage because their coefficients were reduced to near-zero btw. Further evidence that this game has no base damage.

Its 7 damage , from the Basic 1000 Power ?Atleast it wasn't 0 , like the silly Enginners that whined about Napalm , that didn't have a "direct hit" and their burn trait/sigils couldnt activateLoL :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing
GuildWars2.com
ArenaNet

©2020 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. All trademarks are the property of their respective owners.

ESRB - Teen
×
×
  • Create New...