Do not believe the teef mains

[Kuma.1503]

Backstab does much more than 4k. As I have just learned the hard way. 8k hits from stealth are very much possible. Pair it with a heartseeker that you cannot see because the game takes ~1.5 seconds to render their model and you've got a recipee for fun.

Disclaimer: The above poster may have have been outskilled by a thief and is using a forum post as a means to vent his frustrations. Take all messages therin with a grain of salt... Get it... salt... This guy salty as hell.

Edit: Fix stealth render lag. Is really annoying

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

So nerf mesmer then ? Got it.

[Kuma.1503]

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:So nerf mesmer then ? Got it.

Yes, buff shatterstone.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

got hit by a 9k heartseeker last weeknerf teef

! jokes

[Aktium.9506]

@Kuma.1503 said:

@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:So nerf mesmer then ? Got it.

Yes, buff shatterstone.

Fun fact, Shatterstone is almost as strong as Gravedigger in PvP with a 1.5 vs 1.8 coeff.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Kuma.1503 said:Backstab does much more than 4k. As I have just learned the hard way. 8k hits from stealth are very much possible. Pair it with a heartseeker that you cannot see because the game takes ~1.5 seconds to render their model and you've got a recipee for fun.

Disclaimer: The above poster may have have been outskilled by a thief and is using a forum post as a means to vent his frustrations. Take all messages therin with a grain of salt... Get it... salt... This guy salty as hell.

Edit: Fix stealth render lag. Is really annoying

4k is from the standard build. You can push it to 6k if you go max glass cannon with extremely supoptimal traits that turn off too easily. 8k is only possible with that + might stacking + vuln stacking. So not really out of stealth, they had to be in the fight for a long time.

[Bingus.4236]

:'( :'( :'(

[Kuma.1503]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:Backstab does much more than 4k. As I have just learned the hard way. 8k hits from stealth are very much possible. Pair it with a heartseeker that you cannot see because the game takes ~1.5 seconds to render their model and you've got a recipee for fun.

Disclaimer: The above poster may have have been outskilled by a thief and is using a forum post as a means to vent his frustrations. Take all messages therin with a grain of salt... Get it... salt... This guy salty as hell.

Edit: Fix stealth render lag. Is really annoying

4k is from the standard build. You can push it to 6k if you go max glass cannon with extremely supoptimal traits that turn off too easily. 8k is only possible with that + might stacking + vuln stacking. So not really out of stealth, they had to be in the fight for a long time.

I didn't have vuln, but I can't rule out if he was getting might from the support or not since I'm very bad at checking enemy boons. That may have been it.

He did have assassin signet, so it was likely that in conjunction with might from the support.

[Khalisto.5780]

To balance this render delay i suggest thieves taking twice as long to cap/decap points

Ty

[Kondor.2904]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"Kuma.1503" said:Backstab does much more than 4k. As I have just learned the hard way. 8k hits from stealth are very much possible. Pair it with a heartseeker that you cannot see because the game takes ~1.5 seconds to render their model and you've got a recipee for fun.

Disclaimer: The above poster may have have been outskilled by a thief and is using a forum post as a means to vent his frustrations. Take all messages therin with a grain of salt... Get it... salt... This guy salty as hell.

Edit: Fix stealth render lag. Is really annoying

4k is from the standard build. You can push it to 6k if you go max glass cannon with extremely supoptimal traits that turn off too easily. 8k is only possible with that + might stacking + vuln stacking. So not really out of stealth, they had to be in the fight for a long time.

Right, I guess I had 50 stacks of vuln on me kappa

[Fang.8291]

Cloak and dagger applies 5xVulnerability before CnD damage. "Even The Odds" Trait in Deadly Arts Applies 5 Stacks Vulnerability and 5 Stacks of Might+ Might from "Thrill of the Crime" add might from "Bountiful Theft"10k Backstabs happen and are possible, if the thief invests heavily into Damage, they also just blow up if you hit'em with anything randomly and they are screwed if they miss Cloak and Dagger.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Kuma.1503 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Kuma.1503 said:Backstab does much more than 4k. As I have just learned the hard way. 8k hits from stealth are very much possible. Pair it with a heartseeker that you cannot see because the game takes ~1.5 seconds to render their model and you've got a recipee for fun.

Disclaimer: The above poster may have have been outskilled by a thief and is using a forum post as a means to vent his frustrations. Take all messages therin with a grain of salt... Get it... salt... This guy salty as hell.

Edit: Fix stealth render lag. Is really annoying

4k is from the standard build. You can push it to 6k if you go max glass cannon with extremely supoptimal traits that turn off too easily. 8k is only possible with that + might stacking + vuln stacking. So not really out of stealth, they had to be in the fight for a long time.

I didn't have vuln, but I can't rule out if he was getting might from the support or not since I'm very bad at checking enemy boons. That may have been it.

He did have assassin signet, so it was likely that in conjunction with might from the support.

That wouldn't be enough, unless Signets bug suddenly returned. Signet only increases power now, and not by that much compared to might. It should still be well outside of 8k range. Unless it was a malicious backstab, but those show up as such, and arent very good. But yeah, under normal circumstances 8k is unachievable.

[UNOwen.7132]

@Kondor.2904 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"Kuma.1503" said:Backstab does much more than 4k. As I have just learned the hard way. 8k hits from stealth are very much possible. Pair it with a heartseeker that you cannot see because the game takes ~1.5 seconds to render their model and you've got a recipee for fun.

Disclaimer: The above poster may have have been outskilled by a thief and is using a forum post as a means to vent his frustrations. Take all messages therin with a grain of salt... Get it... salt... This guy salty as hell.

Edit: Fix stealth render lag. Is really annoying

4k is from the standard build. You can push it to 6k if you go max glass cannon with extremely supoptimal traits that turn off too easily. 8k is only possible with that + might stacking + vuln stacking. So not really out of stealth, they had to be in the fight for a long time.

Right, I guess I had 50 stacks of vuln on me kappa

How old is this screenshot? Is this from 2006? 10k backstabs haven't been a thing in a loooong time. Even then they werent much of a thing outside of some people memeing with crit strikes.

[UNOwen.7132]

@"Tuchanka.5148" said:Cloak and dagger applies 5xVulnerability before CnD damage. "Even The Odds" Trait in Deadly Arts Applies 5 Stacks Vulnerability and 5 Stacks of Might+ Might from "Thrill of the Crime" add might from "Bountiful Theft"10k Backstabs happen and are possible, if the thief invests heavily into Damage, they also just blow up if you hit'em with anything randomly and they are screwed if they miss Cloak and Dagger.

If they're using DnD to backstab you, you can just turn around make it a frontstab. Even the Odds doesn't apply the might bonus to the backstab damage. 10k Backstabs dont happen and thats because they arent possible. If the thief invests everything into damage, they still wont crack 8k on any enemy that isnt affected by a lot of vuln while they have a lot of might. 10k? Short of some damage% amplifiers that other classes can apply (which I don't believe exists anymore after Druid lost its buff), the only way you could do that is on an enemy who unequips all their armour.

[Abelisk.5148]

Uh yeah I can do 13k+ backstabs from stealth (at the cost of mobility and sustain) it's only a joke build that will never be viable though

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:Uh yeah I can do 13k+ backstabs from stealth (at the cost of mobility and sustain) it's only a joke build that will never be viable though

Sounds like fairly balanced state then, if you want damage, you have to invest for it paying price for that.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

@"Kuma.1503" said:

Edit: Fix stealth render lag. Is really annoying

The render lag can't be fixed, but it can be mitigated by reworking stealth to be reveal-on-cast instead of reveal-on-hit which is far more interactive and would be better for the game anyways. Render lag is just one of the many reasons for why this rework is necessary. I can name a couple thief mains who are only "top" thieves purely because they have a regular lag of over 2 seconds. Whether it is something weird with their connection or an intentional exploit, who knows, but the fix is all the same.

[Lucentfir.7430]

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:

@"Kuma.1503" said:

Edit: Fix stealth render lag. Is really annoying

The render lag can't be fixed, but it can be mitigated by reworking stealth to be reveal-on-cast instead of reveal-on-hit which is far more interactive and would be better for the game anyways. Render lag is just one of the many reasons for why this rework is necessary. I can name a couple thief mains who are only "top" thieves purely because they have a regular lag of over 2 seconds. Whether it is something weird with their connection or an intentional exploit, who knows, but the fix is all the same.

A rework you're not going to get anytime soon, because like many other problems. 'Resources \o/'

[UNOwen.7132]

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:Uh yeah I can do 13k+ backstabs from stealth (at the cost of mobility and sustain) it's only a joke build that will never be viable though

How do people keep coming up with more and more unrealistic numbers? Although, do you mean malicious backstab?

[UNOwen.7132]

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:Uh yeah I can do 13k+ backstabs from stealth (at the cost of mobility and sustain) it's only a joke build that will never be viable though

Sounds like fairly balanced state then, if you want damage, you have to invest for it paying price for that.

Nah, its not. I think they mean 7 malice malicious backstab with full crit strikes. This isnt "paying the price", this is just an unrealistic build. You'll have a much easier time hitting people with photonic blasting module, its less setup and easier to hit. And nah, if you invest for damage on thief, most you get is 5k backstabs. To get more than that, you need to pick crit strikes, and hope that your damage multipliers dont suddenly all turn off because their conditions are no longer fulfilled, only to realise that that happens in every single fight youre in, and youre actually doing less damage.

[Disney.7826]

@"Tuchanka.5148" said:Cloak and dagger applies 5xVulnerability before CnD damage. "Even The Odds" Trait in Deadly Arts Applies 5 Stacks Vulnerability and 5 Stacks of Might+ Might from "Thrill of the Crime" add might from "Bountiful Theft"10k Backstabs happen and are possible, if the thief invests heavily into Damage, they also just blow up if you hit'em with anything randomly and they are screwed if they miss Cloak and Dagger.

Who is playing off hand dagger?

[KrHome.1920]

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAgqDDDsstObpA-zZILBbHA

An opener with the build above will deal:922 [weapon strength] x 2915 [power] x 1.8 [backstab multiplier] x 2.64 [crit multiplier] x (1.05x1.07x1.1x1.07x1.15) [trait multipliers] / 1867 [light armor] =

10,403 damage

No might and no vulnerability are in the calculation above. These can easily further increase the damage. And I ignored the havoc specialist trait for obvious reasons.

Yeah 8k is completely unrealistic. <3

The problem with the average teef main is that he picks a skillbar of defensive skills, two defensive traitlines and a utility weaponset ... and then he complains about not dealing damage, while ignoring that he plays an uncatchable build, which in his opinion doesn't matter.

[Leonidrex.5649]

@"KrHome.1920" said:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PagAgqDDDsstObpA-zZILBbHA

An opener with the build above will deal:922 [weapon strength] x 2915 [power] x 1.8 [backstab multiplier] x 2.64 [crit multiplier] x (1.05x1.07x1.1x1.07x1.15) [trait multipliers] / 1867 [light armor] =

10,403 damage

No might and no vulnerability are in the calculation above. These can easily further increase the damage. And I ignored the havoc specialist trait for obvious reasons.

Yeah 8k is completely unrealistic. <3

The problem with the average teef main is that he picks a skillbar of defensive skills, two defensive traitlines and a utility weaponset ... and then he complains about not dealing damage, while ignoring that he plays an uncatchable build, which in his opinion doesn't matter.

how fucking dare you not use every single defensive trait imaginable on thief.You sir are braking ToS, its clearly stated that thief in pvp is not allowed to use offensive traits!

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:Uh yeah I can do 13k+ backstabs from stealth (at the cost of mobility and sustain) it's only a joke build that will never be viable though

Sounds like fairly balanced state then, if you want damage, you have to invest for it paying price for that.

Nah, its not. I think they mean 7 malice malicious backstab with full crit strikes. This isnt "paying the price", this is just an unrealistic build. You'll have a much easier time hitting people with photonic blasting module, its less setup and easier to hit. And nah, if you invest for damage on thief, most you get is 5k backstabs. To get more than that, you need to pick crit strikes, and hope that your damage multipliers dont suddenly all turn off because their conditions are no longer fulfilled, only to realise that that happens in every single fight youre in, and youre actually doing less damage.

Welcome in balanced game then? You have to sacrifice sustain/mobility for damage via skills and traits, sorry, but this is fairly balanced to me.It's up to the player then to keep these "conditions up" to deal damage, which then will require S K I L L to do so.Why you even bring one of most broken e-speces in the game as comparision to it? Holosmith with rest e-speces are soo poorly designed I'm still surprised that they're allowed anywhere near in PvP and WvW since they were released.

[KrHome.1920]

I made a mistake in the calculation. The base armor is 1888 in PvP - not 1867. So the backstab will not deal 10,403, but only 10,287 damage - big difference!

May bad!