Throw Mine: Increased cooldown from 15 seconds to 30 seconds in WvW only.

[TheOneWhoSighs.7513]

@Kodama.6453 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:I don't think I've seen a single engineer use this skill in WvW since I returned to this mode. It is so... baffling. For one, I don't know why this skill removes only 1 boon in PVE. The damage and knockback aren't high enough to justify it, so the mine is really bad at its only useful utility. In WvW that narrow explosion isn't enough to do significant boon removal against a zerg, or stop an onslaught with CC. Didn't matter if its cooldown was 15 seconds or 30. And really, what exactly is being saved by making the CD 30 seconds? Were zerg clashes being suppressed because of the dreaded 0-damage mines that engineers were laying? Is that extra 15 seconds what was needed to boon up and bowl over people?

you don't play against other guilds, I guess? Some guilds are very heavily using this skill and it takes all the fun out of a fight.

The increase of cooldown while welcome was way too low.

Too low? kitten, literally

doubling

the cooldown of this skill is too low for you?

I mean, to be fair. When you add its toolbelt skill into the mix, it's able to strip quite the ridiculous amount of boons.

5 small mines stripping 1 boon each on 5 players, that's 25 boons.Then you have throw mine itself on a 24 second cooldown (you're going to run gadgeteer with this), that's another 3 from 5 people. So 15.

That's 40 boons removed with 1 utility.

Compare that to well of corruption's 1 boon, 5 people, 5 pulses. That's 25 and people actually have to stand in the well. And mind you, that's on a 40 second cooldown.

Granted I think the toolbelt part of it is a bit harder to use consistently. But still, 15 boons stripped every 24 seconds is pretty powerful if you get good with it. And that's instantly stripped on hit, no need for them to stand in it. You could make a pretty valid argument that the instant 3 boon stripping is more lethal than the pulses from necro's well.

Honestly, even with this cooldown it still seems pretty strong. Not gonna lie.

And when you add in everything else Scrapper brings to the table. It's pretty scary.

Though you could argue to nerf scrapper's utility instead.

Edit: Lol, forgot about streamlined kits. So it's actually 2 mines when you use it. And the delay between deployment and explosion is so low. Top kek. That's 30 boons anytime you go through their melee train. Toolbelt skill would be hard to use, has a long wind up time. The utility itself though.

[RisenHowl.2419]

@TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:

@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:I don't think I've seen a single engineer use this skill in WvW since I returned to this mode. It is so... baffling. For one, I don't know why this skill removes only 1 boon in PVE. The damage and knockback aren't high enough to justify it, so the mine is really bad at its only useful utility. In WvW that narrow explosion isn't enough to do significant boon removal against a zerg, or stop an onslaught with CC. Didn't matter if its cooldown was 15 seconds or 30. And really, what exactly is being saved by making the CD 30 seconds? Were zerg clashes being suppressed because of the dreaded 0-damage mines that engineers were laying? Is that extra 15 seconds what was needed to boon up and bowl over people?

you don't play against other guilds, I guess? Some guilds are very heavily using this skill and it takes all the fun out of a fight.

The increase of cooldown while welcome was way too low.

Too low? kitten, literally

doubling

the cooldown of this skill is too low for you?

I mean, to be fair. When you add its toolbelt skill into the mix, it's able to strip quite the ridiculous amount of boons.

5 small mines stripping 1 boon each on 5 players, that's 25 boons.Then you have throw mine itself on a 24 second cooldown (you're going to run gadgeteer with this), that's another 3 from 5 people. So 15.

That's 40 boons removed with 1 utility.

Compare that to well of corruption's 1 boon, 5 people, 5 pulses. That's 25

and people actually have to stand in the well

. And mind you, that's on a 40 second cooldown.

Granted I think the toolbelt part of it is a bit harder to use consistently. But still, 15 boons stripped every 24 seconds is pretty powerful if you get good with it. And that's instantly stripped on hit, no need for them to stand in it. You could make a pretty valid argument that the instant 3 boon stripping is more lethal than the pulses from necro's well.

Honestly, even with this cooldown it still seems pretty strong. Not gonna lie.

And when you add in everything else Scrapper brings to the table. It's pretty scary.

Though you could argue to nerf scrapper's utility instead.

this sums it up pretty much, it was the best boon strip for a meta that relies heavily on boons since it had the lowest cd, highest number of boons removed, and applies CC after stripping. Toss on a sigil of absorption and anyone you interrupt with it during a melee push is dead

what was crazy was you got all that on a healer without traiting for it. now it's still strong with a 30s CD but not as abusive, though they should really lower the number of boons stripped to 2

oh and also remove purity of purpose so strips make a difference again

[Kodama.6453]

@TheOneWhoSighs.7513 & @RisenHowl.2419

Your comments showcase one of the problems of the skill, clarity.

Throw Mine removes the boons after the CC applies. This does matter, since it means that it is impossible to CC a target with the skill that has stability. The CC applies first and will get blocked by stability, then the skill has the chance to remove the stability afterwards.

And as far as I know, Mine Field also doesn't remove 5 boons on 5 targets. The little mines all remove 1 boon in total. Even if you manage to hit 5 targets with one little mine, just 1 of these targets will get a boon removed, the others won't. So no, this skill does not remove 25 boons in total, just 5.

[Quench.7091]

At least they had a reason to nerf a core engineer ability. You've made it so far, Mine Kit Throw Mine. The turret family is so proud of you! Congratulations!

[TheOneWhoSighs.7513]

@Kodama.6453 said:@TheOneWhoSighs.7513 & @RisenHowl.2419

Your comments showcase one of the problems of the skill, clarity.

Throw Mine removes the boons after the CC applies. This does matter, since it means that it is impossible to CC a target with the skill that has stability. The CC applies first and will get blocked by stability, then the skill has the chance to remove the stability afterwards.

And as far as I know, Mine Field also doesn't remove 5 boons on 5 targets. The little mines all remove 1 boon in total. Even if you manage to hit 5 targets with one little mine, just 1 of these targets will get a boon removed, the others won't. So no, this skill does not remove 25 boons in total, just 5.

I mean. Minus CC & Minus the little mines.You drop 2 mines that remove 3 boons from 5 players each, at the same time. And the only real downsides are being in melee range & running tools instead of inventions. Which does reduce your total cleanses & healing output, but situationally isn't a bad trade.

That's 30 boons removed. It's honestly a good thing the CC happens before the strip, because otherwise this + sigil of absorption would be an absolute freaking meme.

Bro it removes 30 boons on a 24 second cooldown (what was a 12 second cooldown). Is there even another skill in the game that does that much boon rip instantly?

[Bcky.7904]

@TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:@TheOneWhoSighs.7513 & @RisenHowl.2419

Your comments showcase one of the problems of the skill, clarity.

Throw Mine removes the boons

after

the CC applies. This does matter, since it means that it is impossible to CC a target with the skill that has stability. The CC applies first and will get blocked by stability,

then

the skill has the chance to remove the stability afterwards.

And as far as I know, Mine Field also doesn't remove 5 boons on 5 targets. The little mines all remove 1 boon in total. Even if you manage to hit 5 targets with one little mine, just 1 of these targets will get a boon removed, the others won't. So no, this skill does not remove 25 boons in total, just 5.

I mean. Minus CC & Minus the little mines.You drop 2 mines that remove 3 boons from 5 players each, at the same time. And the only real downsides are being in melee range & running tools instead of inventions. Which does reduce your total cleanses & healing output, but situationally isn't a bad trade.

That's 30 boons removed. It's honestly a good thing the CC happens before the strip, because otherwise this + sigil of absorption would be an absolute freaking meme.

Bro it removes 30 boons on a 24 second cooldown (what was a 12 second cooldown). Is there even another skill in the game that does that much boon rip instantly?

the skill was there all along , if you trait with boon strip your party will need another healer to cover that.

there are many boon strip class are able to burst strip , chrono scrg spell breaker. most of them work well with absortion / null sigil

Scrapper Heals n cleanse are the main jobs, everything else are a bonus if used correctly and should be rewarded not nerf.

[TheOneWhoSighs.7513]

@Bcky.7904 said:

@TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:@TheOneWhoSighs.7513 & @RisenHowl.2419

Your comments showcase one of the problems of the skill, clarity.

Throw Mine removes the boons

after

the CC applies. This does matter, since it means that it is impossible to CC a target with the skill that has stability. The CC applies first and will get blocked by stability,

then

the skill has the chance to remove the stability afterwards.

And as far as I know, Mine Field also doesn't remove 5 boons on 5 targets. The little mines all remove 1 boon in total. Even if you manage to hit 5 targets with one little mine, just 1 of these targets will get a boon removed, the others won't. So no, this skill does not remove 25 boons in total, just 5.

I mean. Minus CC & Minus the little mines.You drop 2 mines that remove 3 boons from 5 players each, at the same time. And the only real downsides are being in melee range & running tools instead of inventions. Which does reduce your total cleanses & healing output, but situationally isn't a bad trade.

That's 30 boons removed. It's honestly a good thing the CC happens before the strip, because otherwise this + sigil of absorption would be an absolute freaking meme.

Bro it removes 30 boons on a 24 second cooldown (what was a 12 second cooldown). Is there even another skill in the game that does that much boon rip instantly?

the skill was there all along , if you trait with boon strip your party will need another healer to cover that.

there are many boon strip class are able to burst strip , chrono scrg spell breaker. most of them work well with absortion / null sigil

Scrapper Heals n cleanse are the main jobs, everything else are a bonus if used correctly and should be rewarded not nerf.

Depends on scale. GvG this could be worth taking. RvR it depends on how many supports you have. If you're overloaded on scrappers, this is a perfectly reasonable thing to bring. If you're short then it's suicidal to bring it.

Tempests can cover some cleanses if need be, so it's not like the scrapper taking this is totally dipping on their party running this.

That said, the original cooldown on this was ridiculous.. And if you disagree, I don't know what to say.

[Bcky.7904]

@TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:

@Bcky.7904 said:

@TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:@TheOneWhoSighs.7513 & @RisenHowl.2419

Your comments showcase one of the problems of the skill, clarity.

Throw Mine removes the boons

after

the CC applies. This does matter, since it means that it is impossible to CC a target with the skill that has stability. The CC applies first and will get blocked by stability,

then

the skill has the chance to remove the stability afterwards.

And as far as I know, Mine Field also doesn't remove 5 boons on 5 targets. The little mines all remove 1 boon in total. Even if you manage to hit 5 targets with one little mine, just 1 of these targets will get a boon removed, the others won't. So no, this skill does not remove 25 boons in total, just 5.

I mean. Minus CC & Minus the little mines.You drop 2 mines that remove 3 boons from 5 players each, at the same time. And the only real downsides are being in melee range & running tools instead of inventions. Which does reduce your total cleanses & healing output, but situationally isn't a bad trade.

That's 30 boons removed. It's honestly a good thing the CC happens before the strip, because otherwise this + sigil of absorption would be an absolute freaking meme.

Bro it removes 30 boons on a 24 second cooldown (what was a 12 second cooldown). Is there even another skill in the game that does that much boon rip instantly?

the skill was there all along , if you trait with boon strip your party will need another healer to cover that.

there are many boon strip class are able to burst strip , chrono scrg spell breaker. most of them work well with absortion / null sigil

Scrapper Heals n cleanse are the main jobs, everything else are a bonus if used correctly and should be rewarded not nerf.

Depends on scale. GvG this could be worth taking. RvR it depends on how many supports you have. If you're overloaded on scrappers, this is a perfectly reasonable thing to bring. If you're short then it's suicidal to bring it.

Tempests can cover some cleanses if need be, so it's not like the scrapper taking this is totally dipping on their party running this.

That said, the original cooldown on this was ridiculous.. And if you disagree, I don't know what to say.

having more boon strip just mean you need more stab to counter it and make support FB harder to do their job n give less quickness

[TheOneWhoSighs.7513]

@Bcky.7904 said:

@TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:

@Bcky.7904 said:

@TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:

@Kodama.6453 said:@TheOneWhoSighs.7513 & @RisenHowl.2419

Your comments showcase one of the problems of the skill, clarity.

Throw Mine removes the boons

after

the CC applies. This does matter, since it means that it is impossible to CC a target with the skill that has stability. The CC applies first and will get blocked by stability,

then

the skill has the chance to remove the stability afterwards.

And as far as I know, Mine Field also doesn't remove 5 boons on 5 targets. The little mines all remove 1 boon in total. Even if you manage to hit 5 targets with one little mine, just 1 of these targets will get a boon removed, the others won't. So no, this skill does not remove 25 boons in total, just 5.

I mean. Minus CC & Minus the little mines.You drop 2 mines that remove 3 boons from 5 players each, at the same time. And the only real downsides are being in melee range & running tools instead of inventions. Which does reduce your total cleanses & healing output, but situationally isn't a bad trade.

That's 30 boons removed. It's honestly a good thing the CC happens before the strip, because otherwise this + sigil of absorption would be an absolute freaking meme.

Bro it removes 30 boons on a 24 second cooldown (what was a 12 second cooldown). Is there even another skill in the game that does that much boon rip instantly?

the skill was there all along , if you trait with boon strip your party will need another healer to cover that.

there are many boon strip class are able to burst strip , chrono scrg spell breaker. most of them work well with absortion / null sigil

Scrapper Heals n cleanse are the main jobs, everything else are a bonus if used correctly and should be rewarded not nerf.

Depends on scale. GvG this could be worth taking. RvR it depends on how many supports you have. If you're overloaded on scrappers, this is a perfectly reasonable thing to bring. If you're short then it's suicidal to bring it.

Tempests can cover some cleanses if need be, so it's not like the scrapper taking this is totally dipping on their party running this.

That said, the original cooldown on this was ridiculous.. And if you disagree, I don't know what to say.

having more boon strip just mean you need more stab to counter it and make support FB harder to do their job n give less quickness

Having 30 on demand AoE boon strip means potentially catching people and murdering them straight up. Especially if both mines hit one person. That's 6 boons gone instantly. So there goes stab, resistance, and protection. That person can die very easily if either they or their teammates don't respond quickly.

And people not playing the game perfectly isn't exactly a rare occurrence.

And mind you, with the 12 second cooldown it had previously. You could match the strip power of a necro. You were dropping 3 sets of these minimum before necro got a lot of their cool downs back up.

Essentially, the mine would be up for every single melee push you do. If you don't see the potential of that then I've got nothing for ya. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

@Master Ketsu.4569 said:Do you really want sPvP balance in WvW?

Ever since the Feb balance patch last year, most of the balance changes have actually made sPvP worse, as Anets balance method since then has been largely to increase cooldowns and resource costs instead of actually fixing problems at their root cause. There are a greater number of viable builds and counter strategies in WvW right now than sPvP for this reason, which was not the case a couple years ago.

If anything the lack of WvW being touched is a good thing.

sorta. we don't want spvp balance, but overall spvp is better balanced, because u can actually balance sth in spvp, since it is a structured format in a smaller, closed area. for Wvw the balances that have been made, including the cursed february20 patch, made everything just worse.

Anet cannot balance Wvw, therefore they shouldn't even try it i guess... that'd need insight in what gets actually used and why it gets used, a point they 100% don't understand.

like not even a tiny bit. they would need a group to play anonymously metastuff with 30-40 people, i understand that this is hard to manage, but they had so many years and still have absolutely zero clue. :S

[biofrog.1568]

They increased the cool down on Throw Mine because pieces of shit run in circles around a keep throwing them behind as they have no AOE indicator, but knockback or put anyone following them into combat, while they run away with superspeed.

It's usually the trolls on blackgate that do it for days on end, getting their little kicks from being cunts.