Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Do not believe the teef mains


Kuma.1503

Recommended Posts

@Vancho.8750 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@UNOwen.7132most mobile class in the game should never be able to 1v1 people, if you think otherwise you are wrongI still do not get it, thief has several builds for teamfight, several for +1 ganks and i am pretty sure sidenoder build can be made by losing some mobility.

It has builds for +1s and decaps. Thats it. It has no teamfighting builds (thats what thief is worst at, they were never even remotely good at teamfighting, its why thief is the worst class in zergs and small-scale group roaming in WvW), and it has no sidenoder build.DE, the prep build and for some reason we have reached P/P not being a meme build and becoming legit way to play. Do you even play the class that you so love or you just tunnel one build ?

This forum, quality input "P/P is not a meme build" ... ?If I can pull wins with axe axe berserker you have no excuses about P/P thief. The damage in game is not high enough to be killed fast so it can be played fine enough. FT engi is kinda of a meme yet it is good enough to be played in ranked same goes for minion necro builds. The moment the enemy comp can't handle a meme build it is no longer a meme build. And ou all the "It's not in the MAT" kitten doesn't fly for me, the winning team(worms or smth) plays the same kitten over and over 2 renegades and a support(some FOTM) and the contender instead of trying new comps to counter it, they copy them and lose cause the other guys know their own comp perfectly.

Cool, I can win on core grenade engineer. Does it make any of these builds not meme-tier? No, they're meme-tier. I like meme-tier, but its not good. Youre handicapping yourself. FT Engineer is also a meme, but to put it into a perspective, P/P thief is to FT engineer, what FT engineer is to Renegade. Its that bad.

/s And maybe thief players are not good as they think they are and can't win the AT. Throwing shade HEYOO./s

Yeah, thats totally why thief was almost entirely absent from the hardstuck league. Not because it sucks.

All I see is excuses and whining from thief players in the forum and not their own but the PVP one, all the while there are classes that can't even smell the meta like warrior or ele where they get a build a for a month that gets delete after a patch or mesmer where chrono is a jumbled mess and mirage has one kitten dodge and yet there are people still playing them and winning even with the handicap.

They all suck. They all should get changes to help them. Why do you think "thief is terrible right now, but thats ok, because warrior and ele are also terrible" is a gotcha?

Do I have to make a kitten build play it enough times to get noticed, maybe get it on a AT stream or something, then post it and spread it around and wait for people to complain about it after, so the great thief mains can pick it up to play it.

Oh please, do try. Try to prove that thief is totally good, and that the best players in the world were wrong for not playing it. Good luck though, you'll need it. And likely fail even with it.You continue to say thief bad, thief bad but you haven't given good example that makes it worse than the rest specks, it has received the same treatment as the rest. I explained why it is not in ATs. People build counter rotation comps since only a thief counters a thief these days and that can go either way while disregarding the effort of the other 8 players so people play it safe and maybe boring way, people are using strategy to deny volatility. Thief is just fine in queues since there is no communication and can do its job perfectly fine.

Simple. Thief is a class that had superior mobility in the form of shortbow 5, but had that counterbalanced by its lack of damage, survivability, utility and healing. Now Shortbow 5 was nerfed, leaving it without the superior mobility, but maintaining its lack of everything else. In simpler terms, thief is just an inferior Ranger/Revenant now. People arent "building counter rotation comps", because for that to make sense, people would have to be playing thief in the first place. No, thief isnt played because thief is bad. No one is building to counter thief because no one plays thief because thief is bad. At this point, Ranger/Revenant counter thief with ease. As does everything else, really.

Also about the FT thing it shows that you don't really understand how the game works , FT SCRAPPER smorks renegade since it can shut down every everything on it, certain other class is the problem with FT ill let you guess which one.

If that were the case, it would've been played in the hardstuck league, given that thief was completely absent from it (which I assume you tried to allude to). Its not the case. So it wasnt.

I could make a build that works but i don't really enjoy thief gameplay that much and spending hours just to spite people while not enjoying the game is not something i would like to do and I don't want to make some cheese that will backfire on me afterwards again . Also I don't really want to theory craft builds for people that don't deserve it.

You think too highly of yourself if you think you could while all the best players in the world couldnt. Of course you cant make that build. It doesnt exist. Thief is bad. Its not played for that reason.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 105
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I'll be honest, even I have to put my bias aside and admit that Thief got shafted.

It's been over a year now. They still haven't gotten rid of the MULTIPLE 300 cd traits in Acrobatics.Not even core engi traitlines have been butchered that hard.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"Kuma.1503" said:Backstab does much more than 4k. As I have just learned the hard way. 8k hits from stealth are very much possible. Pair it with a heartseeker that you cannot see because the game takes ~1.5 seconds to render their model and you've got a recipee for fun.

Disclaimer: The above poster may have have been outskilled by a thief and is using a forum post as a means to vent his frustrations. Take all messages therin with a grain of salt... Get it... salt... This guy salty as hell.

Edit: Fix stealth render lag. Is really annoying

4k is from the standard build. You can push it to 6k if you go max glass cannon with extremely supoptimal traits that turn off too easily. 8k is only possible with that + might stacking + vuln stacking. So not really out of stealth, they had to be in the fight for a long time.

Right, I guess I had 50 stacks of vuln on me kappa
LmSAP6T.png

How old is this screenshot? Is this from 2006? 10k backstabs haven't been a thing in a loooong time. Even then they werent much of a thing outside of some people memeing with crit strikes.

Sweats nervously

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@UNOwen.7132most mobile class in the game should never be able to 1v1 people, if you think otherwise you are wrongI still do not get it, thief has several builds for teamfight, several for +1 ganks and i am pretty sure sidenoder build can be made by losing some mobility.

It has builds for +1s and decaps. Thats it. It has no teamfighting builds (thats what thief is worst at, they were never even remotely good at teamfighting, its why thief is the worst class in zergs and small-scale group roaming in WvW), and it has no sidenoder build.DE, the prep build and for some reason we have reached P/P not being a meme build and becoming legit way to play. Do you even play the class that you so love or you just tunnel one build ?

This forum, quality input "P/P is not a meme build" ... ?If I can pull wins with axe axe berserker you have no excuses about P/P thief. The damage in game is not high enough to be killed fast so it can be played fine enough. FT engi is kinda of a meme yet it is good enough to be played in ranked same goes for minion necro builds. The moment the enemy comp can't handle a meme build it is no longer a meme build. And ou all the "It's not in the MAT" kitten doesn't fly for me, the winning team(worms or smth) plays the same kitten over and over 2 renegades and a support(some FOTM) and the contender instead of trying new comps to counter it, they copy them and lose cause the other guys know their own comp perfectly.

Cool, I can win on core grenade engineer. Does it make any of these builds not meme-tier? No, they're meme-tier. I like meme-tier, but its not good. Youre handicapping yourself. FT Engineer is also a meme, but to put it into a perspective, P/P thief is to FT engineer, what FT engineer is to Renegade. Its that bad.

/s And maybe thief players are not good as they think they are and can't win the AT. Throwing shade HEYOO./s

Yeah, thats totally why thief was almost entirely absent from the hardstuck league. Not because it sucks.

All I see is excuses and whining from thief players in the forum and not their own but the PVP one, all the while there are classes that can't even smell the meta like warrior or ele where they get a build a for a month that gets delete after a patch or mesmer where chrono is a jumbled mess and mirage has one kitten dodge and yet there are people still playing them and winning even with the handicap.

They all suck. They all should get changes to help them. Why do you think "thief is terrible right now, but thats ok, because warrior and ele are also terrible" is a gotcha?

Do I have to make a kitten build play it enough times to get noticed, maybe get it on a AT stream or something, then post it and spread it around and wait for people to complain about it after, so the great thief mains can pick it up to play it.

Oh please, do try. Try to prove that thief is totally good, and that the best players in the world were wrong for not playing it. Good luck though, you'll need it. And likely fail even with it.You continue to say thief bad, thief bad but you haven't given good example that makes it worse than the rest specks, it has received the same treatment as the rest. I explained why it is not in ATs. People build counter rotation comps since only a thief counters a thief these days and that can go either way while disregarding the effort of the other 8 players so people play it safe and maybe boring way, people are using strategy to deny volatility. Thief is just fine in queues since there is no communication and can do its job perfectly fine.

Simple. Thief is a class that had superior mobility in the form of shortbow 5, but had that counterbalanced by its lack of damage, survivability, utility and healing. Now Shortbow 5 was nerfed, leaving it without the superior mobility, but maintaining its lack of everything else. In simpler terms, thief is just an inferior Ranger/Revenant now. People arent "building counter rotation comps", because for that to make sense, people would have to be playing thief in the first place. No, thief isnt played because thief is bad. No one is building to counter thief because no one plays thief because thief is bad. At this point, Ranger/Revenant counter thief with ease. As does everything else, really.

Also about the FT thing it shows that you don't really understand how the game works , FT SCRAPPER smorks renegade since it can shut down every everything on it, certain other class is the problem with FT ill let you guess which one.

If that were the case, it would've been played in the hardstuck league, given that thief was completely absent from it (which I assume you tried to allude to). Its not the case. So it wasnt.

I could make a build that works but i don't really enjoy thief gameplay that much and spending hours just to spite people while not enjoying the game is not something i would like to do and I don't want to make some cheese that will backfire on me afterwards again . Also I don't really want to theory craft builds for people that don't deserve it.

You think too highly of yourself if you think you could while all the best players in the world couldnt. Of course you cant make that build. It doesnt exist. Thief is bad. Its not played for that reason.OU NO THIEF LOST 1 out of 3 leaps from shortbow get over it already. Thief ain't bad the AT meta will shift at some point and thief will be back and will be fine as is now.Also yes I think highly of myself about general knowledge of the game since I mostly rely on out knowing instead of out skilling people to win, also from the hot takes about other classes from the supposedly the best thief (don't know which one is the big deal know though) Sind is that he doesn't really play much the other classes and also iII think he doesn't know what makes them tick, so I think I can do better job at making a build for general queue play, which wouldn't be really that hard since thief is fine there.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Vancho.8750 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@UNOwen.7132most mobile class in the game should never be able to 1v1 people, if you think otherwise you are wrongI still do not get it, thief has several builds for teamfight, several for +1 ganks and i am pretty sure sidenoder build can be made by losing some mobility.

It has builds for +1s and decaps. Thats it. It has no teamfighting builds (thats what thief is worst at, they were never even remotely good at teamfighting, its why thief is the worst class in zergs and small-scale group roaming in WvW), and it has no sidenoder build.DE, the prep build and for some reason we have reached P/P not being a meme build and becoming legit way to play. Do you even play the class that you so love or you just tunnel one build ?

This forum, quality input "P/P is not a meme build" ... ?If I can pull wins with axe axe berserker you have no excuses about P/P thief. The damage in game is not high enough to be killed fast so it can be played fine enough. FT engi is kinda of a meme yet it is good enough to be played in ranked same goes for minion necro builds. The moment the enemy comp can't handle a meme build it is no longer a meme build. And ou all the "It's not in the MAT" kitten doesn't fly for me, the winning team(worms or smth) plays the same kitten over and over 2 renegades and a support(some FOTM) and the contender instead of trying new comps to counter it, they copy them and lose cause the other guys know their own comp perfectly.

Cool, I can win on core grenade engineer. Does it make any of these builds not meme-tier? No, they're meme-tier. I like meme-tier, but its not good. Youre handicapping yourself. FT Engineer is also a meme, but to put it into a perspective, P/P thief is to FT engineer, what FT engineer is to Renegade. Its that bad.

/s And maybe thief players are not good as they think they are and can't win the AT. Throwing shade HEYOO./s

Yeah, thats totally why thief was almost entirely absent from the hardstuck league. Not because it sucks.

All I see is excuses and whining from thief players in the forum and not their own but the PVP one, all the while there are classes that can't even smell the meta like warrior or ele where they get a build a for a month that gets delete after a patch or mesmer where chrono is a jumbled mess and mirage has one kitten dodge and yet there are people still playing them and winning even with the handicap.

They all suck. They all should get changes to help them. Why do you think "thief is terrible right now, but thats ok, because warrior and ele are also terrible" is a gotcha?

Do I have to make a kitten build play it enough times to get noticed, maybe get it on a AT stream or something, then post it and spread it around and wait for people to complain about it after, so the great thief mains can pick it up to play it.

Oh please, do try. Try to prove that thief is totally good, and that the best players in the world were wrong for not playing it. Good luck though, you'll need it. And likely fail even with it.You continue to say thief bad, thief bad but you haven't given good example that makes it worse than the rest specks, it has received the same treatment as the rest. I explained why it is not in ATs. People build counter rotation comps since only a thief counters a thief these days and that can go either way while disregarding the effort of the other 8 players so people play it safe and maybe boring way, people are using strategy to deny volatility. Thief is just fine in queues since there is no communication and can do its job perfectly fine.

Simple. Thief is a class that had superior mobility in the form of shortbow 5, but had that counterbalanced by its lack of damage, survivability, utility and healing. Now Shortbow 5 was nerfed, leaving it without the superior mobility, but maintaining its lack of everything else. In simpler terms, thief is just an inferior Ranger/Revenant now. People arent "building counter rotation comps", because for that to make sense, people would have to be playing thief in the first place. No, thief isnt played because thief is bad. No one is building to counter thief because no one plays thief because thief is bad. At this point, Ranger/Revenant counter thief with ease. As does everything else, really.

Also about the FT thing it shows that you don't really understand how the game works , FT SCRAPPER smorks renegade since it can shut down every everything on it, certain other class is the problem with FT ill let you guess which one.

If that were the case, it would've been played in the hardstuck league, given that thief was completely absent from it (which I assume you tried to allude to). Its not the case. So it wasnt.

I could make a build that works but i don't really enjoy thief gameplay that much and spending hours just to spite people while not enjoying the game is not something i would like to do and I don't want to make some cheese that will backfire on me afterwards again . Also I don't really want to theory craft builds for people that don't deserve it.

You think too highly of yourself if you think you could while all the best players in the world couldnt. Of course you cant make that build. It doesnt exist. Thief is bad. Its not played for that reason.OU NO THIEF LOST 1 out of 3 leaps from shortbow get over it already. Thief ain't bad the AT meta will shift at some point and thief will be back and will be fine as is now.

I don't think you understand. Shortbow 5 isn't just one of thieves skills. It was thief. Shortbow 5, and shortbow 5 alone, was the only reason thief was good. There is no other clas as reliant on one skill as thief and shortbow 5. Thief is bad. No matter how the meta will shift, thief will not return in its current state. It will always be outclassed by ranger and revenant, who give up 1 second on their rotation speed for much higher damage, survivability and utility.

Also yes I think highly of myself about general knowledge of the game since I mostly rely on out knowing instead of out skilling people to win, also from the hot takes about other classes from the supposedly the best thief (don't know which one is the big deal know though) Sind is that he doesn't really play much the other classes and also iII think he doesn't know what makes them tick, so I think I can do better job at making a build for general queue play, which wouldn't be really that hard since thief is fine there.

Its clear you do. And its clear you let your complete ignorance of how thief functions not get in the way of that. Its clear you dont know what makes thief tick, so tis clear you can't do a better job than any thief player at making a build for thief. Hence why you dont understand that thief is bad everywhere.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@UNOwen.7132most mobile class in the game should never be able to 1v1 people, if you think otherwise you are wrongI still do not get it, thief has several builds for teamfight, several for +1 ganks and i am pretty sure sidenoder build can be made by losing some mobility.

It has builds for +1s and decaps. Thats it. It has no teamfighting builds (thats what thief is worst at, they were never even remotely good at teamfighting, its why thief is the worst class in zergs and small-scale group roaming in WvW), and it has no sidenoder build.DE, the prep build and for some reason we have reached P/P not being a meme build and becoming legit way to play. Do you even play the class that you so love or you just tunnel one build ?

This forum, quality input "P/P is not a meme build" ... ?If I can pull wins with axe axe berserker you have no excuses about P/P thief. The damage in game is not high enough to be killed fast so it can be played fine enough. FT engi is kinda of a meme yet it is good enough to be played in ranked same goes for minion necro builds. The moment the enemy comp can't handle a meme build it is no longer a meme build. And ou all the "It's not in the MAT" kitten doesn't fly for me, the winning team(worms or smth) plays the same kitten over and over 2 renegades and a support(some FOTM) and the contender instead of trying new comps to counter it, they copy them and lose cause the other guys know their own comp perfectly.

Cool, I can win on core grenade engineer. Does it make any of these builds not meme-tier? No, they're meme-tier. I like meme-tier, but its not good. Youre handicapping yourself. FT Engineer is also a meme, but to put it into a perspective, P/P thief is to FT engineer, what FT engineer is to Renegade. Its that bad.

/s And maybe thief players are not good as they think they are and can't win the AT. Throwing shade HEYOO./s

Yeah, thats totally why thief was almost entirely absent from the hardstuck league. Not because it sucks.

All I see is excuses and whining from thief players in the forum and not their own but the PVP one, all the while there are classes that can't even smell the meta like warrior or ele where they get a build a for a month that gets delete after a patch or mesmer where chrono is a jumbled mess and mirage has one kitten dodge and yet there are people still playing them and winning even with the handicap.

They all suck. They all should get changes to help them. Why do you think "thief is terrible right now, but thats ok, because warrior and ele are also terrible" is a gotcha?

Do I have to make a kitten build play it enough times to get noticed, maybe get it on a AT stream or something, then post it and spread it around and wait for people to complain about it after, so the great thief mains can pick it up to play it.

Oh please, do try. Try to prove that thief is totally good, and that the best players in the world were wrong for not playing it. Good luck though, you'll need it. And likely fail even with it.You continue to say thief bad, thief bad but you haven't given good example that makes it worse than the rest specks, it has received the same treatment as the rest. I explained why it is not in ATs. People build counter rotation comps since only a thief counters a thief these days and that can go either way while disregarding the effort of the other 8 players so people play it safe and maybe boring way, people are using strategy to deny volatility. Thief is just fine in queues since there is no communication and can do its job perfectly fine.

Simple. Thief is a class that had superior mobility in the form of shortbow 5, but had that counterbalanced by its lack of damage, survivability, utility and healing. Now Shortbow 5 was nerfed, leaving it without the superior mobility, but maintaining its lack of everything else. In simpler terms, thief is just an inferior Ranger/Revenant now. People arent "building counter rotation comps", because for that to make sense, people would have to be playing thief in the first place. No, thief isnt played because thief is bad. No one is building to counter thief because no one plays thief because thief is bad. At this point, Ranger/Revenant counter thief with ease. As does everything else, really.

Also about the FT thing it shows that you don't really understand how the game works , FT SCRAPPER smorks renegade since it can shut down every everything on it, certain other class is the problem with FT ill let you guess which one.

If that were the case, it would've been played in the hardstuck league, given that thief was completely absent from it (which I assume you tried to allude to). Its not the case. So it wasnt.

I could make a build that works but i don't really enjoy thief gameplay that much and spending hours just to spite people while not enjoying the game is not something i would like to do and I don't want to make some cheese that will backfire on me afterwards again . Also I don't really want to theory craft builds for people that don't deserve it.

You think too highly of yourself if you think you could while all the best players in the world couldnt. Of course you cant make that build. It doesnt exist. Thief is bad. Its not played for that reason.OU NO THIEF LOST 1 out of 3 leaps from shortbow get over it already. Thief ain't bad the AT meta will shift at some point and thief will be back and will be fine as is now.

I don't think you understand. Shortbow 5 isn't just one of thieves skills. It
was
thief. Shortbow 5, and shortbow 5 alone, was the only reason thief was good. There is no other clas as reliant on one skill as thief and shortbow 5. Thief is bad. No matter how the meta will shift, thief will not return in its current state. It will always be outclassed by ranger and revenant, who give up 1 second on their rotation speed for much higher damage, survivability and utility.

Also yes I think highly of myself about general knowledge of the game since I mostly rely on out knowing instead of out skilling people to win, also from the hot takes about other classes from the supposedly the best thief (don't know which one is the big deal know though) Sind is that he doesn't really play much the other classes and also iII think he doesn't know what makes them tick, so I think I can do better job at making a build for general queue play, which wouldn't be really that hard since thief is fine there.

Its clear you do. And its clear you let your complete ignorance of how thief functions not get in the way of that. Its clear you dont know what makes thief tick, so tis clear you can't do a better job than any thief player at making a build for thief. Hence why you dont understand that thief is bad everywhere.Strawman allot aren't we for someone that thinks that shortbow is the only way to play . Pretty big words for someone that doesn't know how to theory craft his own main class.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Vancho.8750 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@UNOwen.7132most mobile class in the game should never be able to 1v1 people, if you think otherwise you are wrongI still do not get it, thief has several builds for teamfight, several for +1 ganks and i am pretty sure sidenoder build can be made by losing some mobility.

It has builds for +1s and decaps. Thats it. It has no teamfighting builds (thats what thief is worst at, they were never even remotely good at teamfighting, its why thief is the worst class in zergs and small-scale group roaming in WvW), and it has no sidenoder build.DE, the prep build and for some reason we have reached P/P not being a meme build and becoming legit way to play. Do you even play the class that you so love or you just tunnel one build ?

This forum, quality input "P/P is not a meme build" ... ?If I can pull wins with axe axe berserker you have no excuses about P/P thief. The damage in game is not high enough to be killed fast so it can be played fine enough. FT engi is kinda of a meme yet it is good enough to be played in ranked same goes for minion necro builds. The moment the enemy comp can't handle a meme build it is no longer a meme build. And ou all the "It's not in the MAT" kitten doesn't fly for me, the winning team(worms or smth) plays the same kitten over and over 2 renegades and a support(some FOTM) and the contender instead of trying new comps to counter it, they copy them and lose cause the other guys know their own comp perfectly.

Cool, I can win on core grenade engineer. Does it make any of these builds not meme-tier? No, they're meme-tier. I like meme-tier, but its not good. Youre handicapping yourself. FT Engineer is also a meme, but to put it into a perspective, P/P thief is to FT engineer, what FT engineer is to Renegade. Its that bad.

/s And maybe thief players are not good as they think they are and can't win the AT. Throwing shade HEYOO./s

Yeah, thats totally why thief was almost entirely absent from the hardstuck league. Not because it sucks.

All I see is excuses and whining from thief players in the forum and not their own but the PVP one, all the while there are classes that can't even smell the meta like warrior or ele where they get a build a for a month that gets delete after a patch or mesmer where chrono is a jumbled mess and mirage has one kitten dodge and yet there are people still playing them and winning even with the handicap.

They all suck. They all should get changes to help them. Why do you think "thief is terrible right now, but thats ok, because warrior and ele are also terrible" is a gotcha?

Do I have to make a kitten build play it enough times to get noticed, maybe get it on a AT stream or something, then post it and spread it around and wait for people to complain about it after, so the great thief mains can pick it up to play it.

Oh please, do try. Try to prove that thief is totally good, and that the best players in the world were wrong for not playing it. Good luck though, you'll need it. And likely fail even with it.You continue to say thief bad, thief bad but you haven't given good example that makes it worse than the rest specks, it has received the same treatment as the rest. I explained why it is not in ATs. People build counter rotation comps since only a thief counters a thief these days and that can go either way while disregarding the effort of the other 8 players so people play it safe and maybe boring way, people are using strategy to deny volatility. Thief is just fine in queues since there is no communication and can do its job perfectly fine.

Simple. Thief is a class that had superior mobility in the form of shortbow 5, but had that counterbalanced by its lack of damage, survivability, utility and healing. Now Shortbow 5 was nerfed, leaving it without the superior mobility, but maintaining its lack of everything else. In simpler terms, thief is just an inferior Ranger/Revenant now. People arent "building counter rotation comps", because for that to make sense, people would have to be playing thief in the first place. No, thief isnt played because thief is bad. No one is building to counter thief because no one plays thief because thief is bad. At this point, Ranger/Revenant counter thief with ease. As does everything else, really.

Also about the FT thing it shows that you don't really understand how the game works , FT SCRAPPER smorks renegade since it can shut down every everything on it, certain other class is the problem with FT ill let you guess which one.

If that were the case, it would've been played in the hardstuck league, given that thief was completely absent from it (which I assume you tried to allude to). Its not the case. So it wasnt.

I could make a build that works but i don't really enjoy thief gameplay that much and spending hours just to spite people while not enjoying the game is not something i would like to do and I don't want to make some cheese that will backfire on me afterwards again . Also I don't really want to theory craft builds for people that don't deserve it.

You think too highly of yourself if you think you could while all the best players in the world couldnt. Of course you cant make that build. It doesnt exist. Thief is bad. Its not played for that reason.OU NO THIEF LOST 1 out of 3 leaps from shortbow get over it already. Thief ain't bad the AT meta will shift at some point and thief will be back and will be fine as is now.

I don't think you understand. Shortbow 5 isn't just one of thieves skills. It
was
thief. Shortbow 5, and shortbow 5 alone, was the only reason thief was good. There is no other clas as reliant on one skill as thief and shortbow 5. Thief is bad. No matter how the meta will shift, thief will not return in its current state. It will always be outclassed by ranger and revenant, who give up 1 second on their rotation speed for much higher damage, survivability and utility.

Also yes I think highly of myself about general knowledge of the game since I mostly rely on out knowing instead of out skilling people to win, also from the hot takes about other classes from the supposedly the best thief (don't know which one is the big deal know though) Sind is that he doesn't really play much the other classes and also iII think he doesn't know what makes them tick, so I think I can do better job at making a build for general queue play, which wouldn't be really that hard since thief is fine there.

Its clear you do. And its clear you let your complete ignorance of how thief functions not get in the way of that. Its clear you dont know what makes thief tick, so tis clear you can't do a better job than any thief player at making a build for thief. Hence why you dont understand that thief is bad everywhere.Strawman allot aren't we for someone that thinks that shortbow is the only way to play . Pretty big words for someone that doesn't know how to theory craft his own main class.

I don't think you know what a strawman is. And you clearly dont know how thief works if you think shortbow isnt mandatory. I know how to theory craft it, because I used to play it, and I know how it works. What it can and cannot do. You clearly do not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@UNOwen.7132most mobile class in the game should never be able to 1v1 people, if you think otherwise you are wrongI still do not get it, thief has several builds for teamfight, several for +1 ganks and i am pretty sure sidenoder build can be made by losing some mobility.

It has builds for +1s and decaps. Thats it. It has no teamfighting builds (thats what thief is worst at, they were never even remotely good at teamfighting, its why thief is the worst class in zergs and small-scale group roaming in WvW), and it has no sidenoder build.DE, the prep build and for some reason we have reached P/P not being a meme build and becoming legit way to play. Do you even play the class that you so love or you just tunnel one build ?

This forum, quality input "P/P is not a meme build" ... ?If I can pull wins with axe axe berserker you have no excuses about P/P thief. The damage in game is not high enough to be killed fast so it can be played fine enough. FT engi is kinda of a meme yet it is good enough to be played in ranked same goes for minion necro builds. The moment the enemy comp can't handle a meme build it is no longer a meme build. And ou all the "It's not in the MAT" kitten doesn't fly for me, the winning team(worms or smth) plays the same kitten over and over 2 renegades and a support(some FOTM) and the contender instead of trying new comps to counter it, they copy them and lose cause the other guys know their own comp perfectly.

Cool, I can win on core grenade engineer. Does it make any of these builds not meme-tier? No, they're meme-tier. I like meme-tier, but its not good. Youre handicapping yourself. FT Engineer is also a meme, but to put it into a perspective, P/P thief is to FT engineer, what FT engineer is to Renegade. Its that bad.

/s And maybe thief players are not good as they think they are and can't win the AT. Throwing shade HEYOO./s

Yeah, thats totally why thief was almost entirely absent from the hardstuck league. Not because it sucks.

All I see is excuses and whining from thief players in the forum and not their own but the PVP one, all the while there are classes that can't even smell the meta like warrior or ele where they get a build a for a month that gets delete after a patch or mesmer where chrono is a jumbled mess and mirage has one kitten dodge and yet there are people still playing them and winning even with the handicap.

They all suck. They all should get changes to help them. Why do you think "thief is terrible right now, but thats ok, because warrior and ele are also terrible" is a gotcha?

Do I have to make a kitten build play it enough times to get noticed, maybe get it on a AT stream or something, then post it and spread it around and wait for people to complain about it after, so the great thief mains can pick it up to play it.

Oh please, do try. Try to prove that thief is totally good, and that the best players in the world were wrong for not playing it. Good luck though, you'll need it. And likely fail even with it.You continue to say thief bad, thief bad but you haven't given good example that makes it worse than the rest specks, it has received the same treatment as the rest. I explained why it is not in ATs. People build counter rotation comps since only a thief counters a thief these days and that can go either way while disregarding the effort of the other 8 players so people play it safe and maybe boring way, people are using strategy to deny volatility. Thief is just fine in queues since there is no communication and can do its job perfectly fine.

Simple. Thief is a class that had superior mobility in the form of shortbow 5, but had that counterbalanced by its lack of damage, survivability, utility and healing. Now Shortbow 5 was nerfed, leaving it without the superior mobility, but maintaining its lack of everything else. In simpler terms, thief is just an inferior Ranger/Revenant now. People arent "building counter rotation comps", because for that to make sense, people would have to be playing thief in the first place. No, thief isnt played because thief is bad. No one is building to counter thief because no one plays thief because thief is bad. At this point, Ranger/Revenant counter thief with ease. As does everything else, really.

Also about the FT thing it shows that you don't really understand how the game works , FT SCRAPPER smorks renegade since it can shut down every everything on it, certain other class is the problem with FT ill let you guess which one.

If that were the case, it would've been played in the hardstuck league, given that thief was completely absent from it (which I assume you tried to allude to). Its not the case. So it wasnt.

I could make a build that works but i don't really enjoy thief gameplay that much and spending hours just to spite people while not enjoying the game is not something i would like to do and I don't want to make some cheese that will backfire on me afterwards again . Also I don't really want to theory craft builds for people that don't deserve it.

You think too highly of yourself if you think you could while all the best players in the world couldnt. Of course you cant make that build. It doesnt exist. Thief is bad. Its not played for that reason.OU NO THIEF LOST 1 out of 3 leaps from shortbow get over it already. Thief ain't bad the AT meta will shift at some point and thief will be back and will be fine as is now.

I don't think you understand. Shortbow 5 isn't just one of thieves skills. It
was
thief. Shortbow 5, and shortbow 5 alone, was the only reason thief was good. There is no other clas as reliant on one skill as thief and shortbow 5. Thief is bad. No matter how the meta will shift, thief will not return in its current state. It will always be outclassed by ranger and revenant, who give up 1 second on their rotation speed for much higher damage, survivability and utility.

Also yes I think highly of myself about general knowledge of the game since I mostly rely on out knowing instead of out skilling people to win, also from the hot takes about other classes from the supposedly the best thief (don't know which one is the big deal know though) Sind is that he doesn't really play much the other classes and also iII think he doesn't know what makes them tick, so I think I can do better job at making a build for general queue play, which wouldn't be really that hard since thief is fine there.

Its clear you do. And its clear you let your complete ignorance of how thief functions not get in the way of that. Its clear you dont know what makes thief tick, so tis clear you can't do a better job than any thief player at making a build for thief. Hence why you dont understand that thief is bad everywhere.Strawman allot aren't we for someone that thinks that shortbow is the only way to play . Pretty big words for someone that doesn't know how to theory craft his own main class.

I don't think you know what a strawman is. And you clearly dont know how thief works if you think shortbow isnt mandatory. I know how to theory craft it, because I used to play it, and I know how it works. What it can and cannot do. You clearly do not.YOU KNOW NOTHING JON SNOW, is not really an argument man. DE with D/P or S/P + Rifle clearly doesn't need SB. To save some time you will say something like but DE is bad and will say but DE is probably one of the hardest hitting classes these days by reducing some of its mobility but getting high output and you will say but no one plays it in ATs and The big thief mains don't play DE. And this will go on and on since all your arguments are you are bad and thief is bad and the like. I had my fun with the argument but I don't think I have the power to convince you anything since you return to the same unreasonable thing over and over even though I give you reasonable arguments. That is my own fault for getting entangled and not listening to the OP and the thread name "Do not believe the teef mains".
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Vancho.8750 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@UNOwen.7132most mobile class in the game should never be able to 1v1 people, if you think otherwise you are wrongI still do not get it, thief has several builds for teamfight, several for +1 ganks and i am pretty sure sidenoder build can be made by losing some mobility.

It has builds for +1s and decaps. Thats it. It has no teamfighting builds (thats what thief is worst at, they were never even remotely good at teamfighting, its why thief is the worst class in zergs and small-scale group roaming in WvW), and it has no sidenoder build.DE, the prep build and for some reason we have reached P/P not being a meme build and becoming legit way to play. Do you even play the class that you so love or you just tunnel one build ?

This forum, quality input "P/P is not a meme build" ... ?If I can pull wins with axe axe berserker you have no excuses about P/P thief. The damage in game is not high enough to be killed fast so it can be played fine enough. FT engi is kinda of a meme yet it is good enough to be played in ranked same goes for minion necro builds. The moment the enemy comp can't handle a meme build it is no longer a meme build. And ou all the "It's not in the MAT" kitten doesn't fly for me, the winning team(worms or smth) plays the same kitten over and over 2 renegades and a support(some FOTM) and the contender instead of trying new comps to counter it, they copy them and lose cause the other guys know their own comp perfectly.

Cool, I can win on core grenade engineer. Does it make any of these builds not meme-tier? No, they're meme-tier. I like meme-tier, but its not good. Youre handicapping yourself. FT Engineer is also a meme, but to put it into a perspective, P/P thief is to FT engineer, what FT engineer is to Renegade. Its that bad.

/s And maybe thief players are not good as they think they are and can't win the AT. Throwing shade HEYOO./s

Yeah, thats totally why thief was almost entirely absent from the hardstuck league. Not because it sucks.

All I see is excuses and whining from thief players in the forum and not their own but the PVP one, all the while there are classes that can't even smell the meta like warrior or ele where they get a build a for a month that gets delete after a patch or mesmer where chrono is a jumbled mess and mirage has one kitten dodge and yet there are people still playing them and winning even with the handicap.

They all suck. They all should get changes to help them. Why do you think "thief is terrible right now, but thats ok, because warrior and ele are also terrible" is a gotcha?

Do I have to make a kitten build play it enough times to get noticed, maybe get it on a AT stream or something, then post it and spread it around and wait for people to complain about it after, so the great thief mains can pick it up to play it.

Oh please, do try. Try to prove that thief is totally good, and that the best players in the world were wrong for not playing it. Good luck though, you'll need it. And likely fail even with it.You continue to say thief bad, thief bad but you haven't given good example that makes it worse than the rest specks, it has received the same treatment as the rest. I explained why it is not in ATs. People build counter rotation comps since only a thief counters a thief these days and that can go either way while disregarding the effort of the other 8 players so people play it safe and maybe boring way, people are using strategy to deny volatility. Thief is just fine in queues since there is no communication and can do its job perfectly fine.

Simple. Thief is a class that had superior mobility in the form of shortbow 5, but had that counterbalanced by its lack of damage, survivability, utility and healing. Now Shortbow 5 was nerfed, leaving it without the superior mobility, but maintaining its lack of everything else. In simpler terms, thief is just an inferior Ranger/Revenant now. People arent "building counter rotation comps", because for that to make sense, people would have to be playing thief in the first place. No, thief isnt played because thief is bad. No one is building to counter thief because no one plays thief because thief is bad. At this point, Ranger/Revenant counter thief with ease. As does everything else, really.

Also about the FT thing it shows that you don't really understand how the game works , FT SCRAPPER smorks renegade since it can shut down every everything on it, certain other class is the problem with FT ill let you guess which one.

If that were the case, it would've been played in the hardstuck league, given that thief was completely absent from it (which I assume you tried to allude to). Its not the case. So it wasnt.

I could make a build that works but i don't really enjoy thief gameplay that much and spending hours just to spite people while not enjoying the game is not something i would like to do and I don't want to make some cheese that will backfire on me afterwards again . Also I don't really want to theory craft builds for people that don't deserve it.

You think too highly of yourself if you think you could while all the best players in the world couldnt. Of course you cant make that build. It doesnt exist. Thief is bad. Its not played for that reason.OU NO THIEF LOST 1 out of 3 leaps from shortbow get over it already. Thief ain't bad the AT meta will shift at some point and thief will be back and will be fine as is now.

I don't think you understand. Shortbow 5 isn't just one of thieves skills. It
was
thief. Shortbow 5, and shortbow 5 alone, was the only reason thief was good. There is no other clas as reliant on one skill as thief and shortbow 5. Thief is bad. No matter how the meta will shift, thief will not return in its current state. It will always be outclassed by ranger and revenant, who give up 1 second on their rotation speed for much higher damage, survivability and utility.

Also yes I think highly of myself about general knowledge of the game since I mostly rely on out knowing instead of out skilling people to win, also from the hot takes about other classes from the supposedly the best thief (don't know which one is the big deal know though) Sind is that he doesn't really play much the other classes and also iII think he doesn't know what makes them tick, so I think I can do better job at making a build for general queue play, which wouldn't be really that hard since thief is fine there.

Its clear you do. And its clear you let your complete ignorance of how thief functions not get in the way of that. Its clear you dont know what makes thief tick, so tis clear you can't do a better job than any thief player at making a build for thief. Hence why you dont understand that thief is bad everywhere.Strawman allot aren't we for someone that thinks that shortbow is the only way to play . Pretty big words for someone that doesn't know how to theory craft his own main class.

I don't think you know what a strawman is. And you clearly dont know how thief works if you think shortbow isnt mandatory. I know how to theory craft it, because I used to play it, and I know how it works. What it can and cannot do. You clearly do not.YOU KNOW NOTHING JON SNOW, is not really an argument man. DE with D/P or S/P + Rifle clearly doesn't need SB. To save some time you will say something like but DE is bad and will say but DE is probably one of the hardest hitting classes these days by reducing some of its mobility but getting high output and you will say but no one plays it in ATs and The big thief mains don't play DE. And this will go on and on since all your arguments are you are bad and thief is bad and the like. I had my fun with the argument but I don't think I have the power to convince you anything since you return to the same unreasonable thing over and over even though I give you reasonable arguments. That is my own fault for getting entangled and not listening to the OP and the thread name "Do not believe the teef mains".

And DE sucks. Its issue is that either you play it without shortbow, in which case it sucks because it doesnt have shortbow, or you play it with, and you just get screwed by LoS, projectile block and people teleporting on you. It also doesn't hit that particularly hard, even by todays standards. Not without the enemy being AFK to be hit by DJ, at least. And no, your arguments are the ones that are bad, since your arguments are quite literally "I know better than all the good players despite having already shown that I don't understand thief at all". You have yet to show any reason why thief is totally good. There are no "reasonable arguments" you bring, just a misconception as to how teams are built, and a misconception as to what thief can and cannot do.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@UNOwen.7132most mobile class in the game should never be able to 1v1 people, if you think otherwise you are wrongI still do not get it, thief has several builds for teamfight, several for +1 ganks and i am pretty sure sidenoder build can be made by losing some mobility.

It has builds for +1s and decaps. Thats it. It has no teamfighting builds (thats what thief is worst at, they were never even remotely good at teamfighting, its why thief is the worst class in zergs and small-scale group roaming in WvW), and it has no sidenoder build.DE, the prep build and for some reason we have reached P/P not being a meme build and becoming legit way to play. Do you even play the class that you so love or you just tunnel one build ?

This forum, quality input "P/P is not a meme build" ... ?If I can pull wins with axe axe berserker you have no excuses about P/P thief. The damage in game is not high enough to be killed fast so it can be played fine enough. FT engi is kinda of a meme yet it is good enough to be played in ranked same goes for minion necro builds. The moment the enemy comp can't handle a meme build it is no longer a meme build. And ou all the "It's not in the MAT" kitten doesn't fly for me, the winning team(worms or smth) plays the same kitten over and over 2 renegades and a support(some FOTM) and the contender instead of trying new comps to counter it, they copy them and lose cause the other guys know their own comp perfectly.

Cool, I can win on core grenade engineer. Does it make any of these builds not meme-tier? No, they're meme-tier. I like meme-tier, but its not good. Youre handicapping yourself. FT Engineer is also a meme, but to put it into a perspective, P/P thief is to FT engineer, what FT engineer is to Renegade. Its that bad.

/s And maybe thief players are not good as they think they are and can't win the AT. Throwing shade HEYOO./s

Yeah, thats totally why thief was almost entirely absent from the hardstuck league. Not because it sucks.

All I see is excuses and whining from thief players in the forum and not their own but the PVP one, all the while there are classes that can't even smell the meta like warrior or ele where they get a build a for a month that gets delete after a patch or mesmer where chrono is a jumbled mess and mirage has one kitten dodge and yet there are people still playing them and winning even with the handicap.

They all suck. They all should get changes to help them. Why do you think "thief is terrible right now, but thats ok, because warrior and ele are also terrible" is a gotcha?

Do I have to make a kitten build play it enough times to get noticed, maybe get it on a AT stream or something, then post it and spread it around and wait for people to complain about it after, so the great thief mains can pick it up to play it.

Oh please, do try. Try to prove that thief is totally good, and that the best players in the world were wrong for not playing it. Good luck though, you'll need it. And likely fail even with it.You continue to say thief bad, thief bad but you haven't given good example that makes it worse than the rest specks, it has received the same treatment as the rest. I explained why it is not in ATs. People build counter rotation comps since only a thief counters a thief these days and that can go either way while disregarding the effort of the other 8 players so people play it safe and maybe boring way, people are using strategy to deny volatility. Thief is just fine in queues since there is no communication and can do its job perfectly fine.

Simple. Thief is a class that had superior mobility in the form of shortbow 5, but had that counterbalanced by its lack of damage, survivability, utility and healing. Now Shortbow 5 was nerfed, leaving it without the superior mobility, but maintaining its lack of everything else. In simpler terms, thief is just an inferior Ranger/Revenant now. People arent "building counter rotation comps", because for that to make sense, people would have to be playing thief in the first place. No, thief isnt played because thief is bad. No one is building to counter thief because no one plays thief because thief is bad. At this point, Ranger/Revenant counter thief with ease. As does everything else, really.

Also about the FT thing it shows that you don't really understand how the game works , FT SCRAPPER smorks renegade since it can shut down every everything on it, certain other class is the problem with FT ill let you guess which one.

If that were the case, it would've been played in the hardstuck league, given that thief was completely absent from it (which I assume you tried to allude to). Its not the case. So it wasnt.

I could make a build that works but i don't really enjoy thief gameplay that much and spending hours just to spite people while not enjoying the game is not something i would like to do and I don't want to make some cheese that will backfire on me afterwards again . Also I don't really want to theory craft builds for people that don't deserve it.

You think too highly of yourself if you think you could while all the best players in the world couldnt. Of course you cant make that build. It doesnt exist. Thief is bad. Its not played for that reason.OU NO THIEF LOST 1 out of 3 leaps from shortbow get over it already. Thief ain't bad the AT meta will shift at some point and thief will be back and will be fine as is now.

I don't think you understand. Shortbow 5 isn't just one of thieves skills. It
was
thief. Shortbow 5, and shortbow 5 alone, was the only reason thief was good. There is no other clas as reliant on one skill as thief and shortbow 5. Thief is bad. No matter how the meta will shift, thief will not return in its current state. It will always be outclassed by ranger and revenant, who give up 1 second on their rotation speed for much higher damage, survivability and utility.

Also yes I think highly of myself about general knowledge of the game since I mostly rely on out knowing instead of out skilling people to win, also from the hot takes about other classes from the supposedly the best thief (don't know which one is the big deal know though) Sind is that he doesn't really play much the other classes and also iII think he doesn't know what makes them tick, so I think I can do better job at making a build for general queue play, which wouldn't be really that hard since thief is fine there.

Its clear you do. And its clear you let your complete ignorance of how thief functions not get in the way of that. Its clear you dont know what makes thief tick, so tis clear you can't do a better job than any thief player at making a build for thief. Hence why you dont understand that thief is bad everywhere.Strawman allot aren't we for someone that thinks that shortbow is the only way to play . Pretty big words for someone that doesn't know how to theory craft his own main class.

I don't think you know what a strawman is. And you clearly dont know how thief works if you think shortbow isnt mandatory. I know how to theory craft it, because I used to play it, and I know how it works. What it can and cannot do. You clearly do not.YOU KNOW NOTHING JON SNOW, is not really an argument man. DE with D/P or S/P + Rifle clearly doesn't need SB. To save some time you will say something like but DE is bad and will say but DE is probably one of the hardest hitting classes these days by reducing some of its mobility but getting high output and you will say but no one plays it in ATs and The big thief mains don't play DE. And this will go on and on since all your arguments are you are bad and thief is bad and the like. I had my fun with the argument but I don't think I have the power to convince you anything since you return to the same unreasonable thing over and over even though I give you reasonable arguments. That is my own fault for getting entangled and not listening to the OP and the thread name "Do not believe the teef mains".

And DE sucks. Its issue is that either you play it without shortbow, in which case it sucks because it doesnt have shortbow, or you play it with, and you just get screwed by LoS, projectile block and people teleporting on you. It also doesn't hit that particularly hard, even by todays standards. Not without the enemy being AFK to be hit by DJ, at least. And no, your arguments are the ones that are bad, since your arguments are quite literally "I know better than all the good players despite having already shown that I don't understand thief at all". You have yet to show any reason why thief is totally good. There are no "reasonable arguments" you bring, just a misconception as to how teams are built, and a misconception as to what thief can and cannot do.

If they teleport on you, either dodge/stealth or use Death's Retreat , or Shadow StepEven Skirmisher's Shotdoes 3300-3600 crit https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/125814/deadeye-thief and you dont need to kneelProjectile block are useless . That why none use it in the Tournaments vs the Rev with Power Amulet Bowsedit: (or on purpose , they have a magestic plan , with their main getting unscathed and they steer the company to nerf specific classes till the next expansion .Which will come in fruition , because few can go high on the Tournaments:P)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@razaelll.8324 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Thief is bad. Its not played for that reason.

I dont know about ATs since i still didnt played one yet, but in ranked (g2-g3 rating) i see thief in almost every game. I mainly play Core condi necro and i get destroyed by DE thiefs without having much chance to do something to them.

Yeah... that's pretty much as bad a matchup as it gets for core necro 1v1. DE and Ranger are going to be your hardest counters. Best to play with your team if the enemy has one. They're not as useful as you in large scale fights.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Kuma.1503 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Thief is bad. Its not played for that reason.

I dont know about ATs since i still didnt played one yet, but in ranked (g2-g3 rating) i see thief in almost every game. I mainly play Core condi necro and i get destroyed by DE thiefs without having much chance to do something to them.

Yeah... that's pretty much as bad a matchup as it gets for core necro 1v1. DE and Ranger are going to be your hardest counters. Best to play with your team if the enemy has one. They're not as useful as you in large scale fights.

Yep i understand that, but they look good in +1 and small scale fights since it looks like they have very high burst and they can aways choose their fights, because of their mobility and invisibility. Anyway my point is that i think thief is not that unplayed as @UNOwen.7132 claims.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@razaelll.8324 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Thief is bad. Its not played for that reason.

I dont know about ATs since i still didnt played one yet, but in ranked (g2-g3 rating) i see thief in almost every game. I mainly play Core condi necro and i get destroyed by DE thiefs without having much chance to do something to them.

Thieves are always overrepresented in the lower ranks, its the same reason you often got 2 thief teams despite that being an autoloss. But its not played much above that, because its bad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@razaelll.8324 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Thief is bad. Its not played for that reason.

I dont know about ATs since i still didnt played one yet, but in ranked (g2-g3 rating) i see thief in almost every game. I mainly play Core condi necro and i get destroyed by DE thiefs without having much chance to do something to them.

Yeah... that's pretty much as bad a matchup as it gets for core necro 1v1. DE and Ranger are going to be your hardest counters. Best to play with your team if the enemy has one. They're not as useful as you in large scale fights.

Yep i understand that, but they look good in +1 and small scale fights since it looks like they have very high burst and they can aways choose their fights, because of their mobility and invisibility. Anyway my point is that i think thief is not that unplayed as @UNOwen.7132 claims.

They're ok for +1s and terrible for small scale fights. Their burst is pathetically low, but they were carried by the fact that they could rotate faster and get into position to burst faster. Now they cannot, anymore. At this point, there is no reason to play thief over ranger or revenant, who burst twice as hard, survive twice as well but only arrive in position 1 second slower. Really, the only useful aspect thief has left is stealthing their team, but thats not really relevant in a low-damage meta like we've had for months.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Thief is bad. Its not played for that reason.

I dont know about ATs since i still didnt played one yet, but in ranked (g2-g3 rating) i see thief in almost every game. I mainly play Core condi necro and i get destroyed by DE thiefs without having much chance to do something to them.

Thieves are always overrepresented in the lower ranks, its the same reason you often got 2 thief teams despite that being an autoloss. But its not played much above that, because its bad.

Thief is played by some top teams in tournaments.

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Thief is bad. Its not played for that reason.

I dont know about ATs since i still didnt played one yet, but in ranked (g2-g3 rating) i see thief in almost every game. I mainly play Core condi necro and i get destroyed by DE thiefs without having much chance to do something to them.

Yeah... that's pretty much as bad a matchup as it gets for core necro 1v1. DE and Ranger are going to be your hardest counters. Best to play with your team if the enemy has one. They're not as useful as you in large scale fights.

Yep i understand that, but they look good in +1 and small scale fights since it looks like they have very high burst and they can aways choose their fights, because of their mobility and invisibility. Anyway my point is that i think thief is not that unplayed as @UNOwen.7132 claims.

They're ok for +1s and
terrible
for small scale fights. Their burst is pathetically
low
, but they were carried by the fact that they could rotate faster and get into position to burst faster. Now they cannot, anymore. At this point, there is no reason to play thief over ranger or revenant, who burst twice as hard, survive twice as well but only arrive in position 1 second slower. Really, the only useful aspect thief has left is stealthing their team, but thats not really relevant in a low-damage meta like we've had for months.

Ranger did never and will never compete with thief for a roamer role at high lvl play (unless they significantly buff sic'em slb - which will not happen)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:Uh yeah I can do 13k+ backstabs from stealth (at the cost of mobility and sustain) it's only a joke build that will never be viable though

How do people keep coming up with more and more unrealistic numbers? Although, do you mean malicious backstab?

I once crit for 16k+ backstab and i don't even have a thief

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Thief is bad. Its not played for that reason.

I dont know about ATs since i still didnt played one yet, but in ranked (g2-g3 rating) i see thief in almost every game. I mainly play Core condi necro and i get destroyed by DE thiefs without having much chance to do something to them.

Thieves are always overrepresented in the lower ranks, its the same reason you often got 2 thief teams despite that being an autoloss. But its not played much above that, because its bad.

Thief is played by some top teams in tournaments.

Such as? In the Hardstuck league we only really saw the prestige, which used thief as backup for Mesmer. Which, given its mesmer, is not a great sign. They also lost.

@UNOwen.7132 said:Thief is bad. Its not played for that reason.

I dont know about ATs since i still didnt played one yet, but in ranked (g2-g3 rating) i see thief in almost every game. I mainly play Core condi necro and i get destroyed by DE thiefs without having much chance to do something to them.

Yeah... that's pretty much as bad a matchup as it gets for core necro 1v1. DE and Ranger are going to be your hardest counters. Best to play with your team if the enemy has one. They're not as useful as you in large scale fights.

Yep i understand that, but they look good in +1 and small scale fights since it looks like they have very high burst and they can aways choose their fights, because of their mobility and invisibility. Anyway my point is that i think thief is not that unplayed as @UNOwen.7132 claims.

They're ok for +1s and
terrible
for small scale fights. Their burst is pathetically
low
, but they were carried by the fact that they could rotate faster and get into position to burst faster. Now they cannot, anymore. At this point, there is no reason to play thief over ranger or revenant, who burst twice as hard, survive twice as well but only arrive in position 1 second slower. Really, the only useful aspect thief has left is stealthing their team, but thats not really relevant in a low-damage meta like we've had for months.

Ranger did never and will never compete with thief for a roamer role at high lvl play (unless they significantly buff sic'em slb - which will not happen)

Of course it will? Similar mobility, much higher damage and survivability. Probably outclassed by Revenant right now, but already superior.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:@UNOwen.7132most mobile class in the game should never be able to 1v1 people, if you think otherwise you are wrongI still do not get it, thief has several builds for teamfight, several for +1 ganks and i am pretty sure sidenoder build can be made by losing some mobility.

It has builds for +1s and decaps. Thats it. It has no teamfighting builds (thats what thief is worst at, they were never even remotely good at teamfighting, its why thief is the worst class in zergs and small-scale group roaming in WvW), and it has no sidenoder build.DE, the prep build and for some reason we have reached P/P not being a meme build and becoming legit way to play. Do you even play the class that you so love or you just tunnel one build ?

This forum, quality input "P/P is not a meme build" ... ?If I can pull wins with axe axe berserker you have no excuses about P/P thief. The damage in game is not high enough to be killed fast so it can be played fine enough. FT engi is kinda of a meme yet it is good enough to be played in ranked same goes for minion necro builds. The moment the enemy comp can't handle a meme build it is no longer a meme build. And ou all the "It's not in the MAT" kitten doesn't fly for me, the winning team(worms or smth) plays the same kitten over and over 2 renegades and a support(some FOTM) and the contender instead of trying new comps to counter it, they copy them and lose cause the other guys know their own comp perfectly.

Cool, I can win on core grenade engineer. Does it make any of these builds not meme-tier? No, they're meme-tier. I like meme-tier, but its not good. Youre handicapping yourself. FT Engineer is also a meme, but to put it into a perspective, P/P thief is to FT engineer, what FT engineer is to Renegade. Its that bad.

/s And maybe thief players are not good as they think they are and can't win the AT. Throwing shade HEYOO./s

Yeah, thats totally why thief was almost entirely absent from the hardstuck league. Not because it sucks.

All I see is excuses and whining from thief players in the forum and not their own but the PVP one, all the while there are classes that can't even smell the meta like warrior or ele where they get a build a for a month that gets delete after a patch or mesmer where chrono is a jumbled mess and mirage has one kitten dodge and yet there are people still playing them and winning even with the handicap.

They all suck. They all should get changes to help them. Why do you think "thief is terrible right now, but thats ok, because warrior and ele are also terrible" is a gotcha?

Do I have to make a kitten build play it enough times to get noticed, maybe get it on a AT stream or something, then post it and spread it around and wait for people to complain about it after, so the great thief mains can pick it up to play it.

Oh please, do try. Try to prove that thief is totally good, and that the best players in the world were wrong for not playing it. Good luck though, you'll need it. And likely fail even with it.You continue to say thief bad, thief bad but you haven't given good example that makes it worse than the rest specks, it has received the same treatment as the rest. I explained why it is not in ATs. People build counter rotation comps since only a thief counters a thief these days and that can go either way while disregarding the effort of the other 8 players so people play it safe and maybe boring way, people are using strategy to deny volatility. Thief is just fine in queues since there is no communication and can do its job perfectly fine.

Simple. Thief is a class that had superior mobility in the form of shortbow 5, but had that counterbalanced by its lack of damage, survivability, utility and healing. Now Shortbow 5 was nerfed, leaving it without the superior mobility, but maintaining its lack of everything else. In simpler terms, thief is just an inferior Ranger/Revenant now. People arent "building counter rotation comps", because for that to make sense, people would have to be playing thief in the first place. No, thief isnt played because thief is bad. No one is building to counter thief because no one plays thief because thief is bad. At this point, Ranger/Revenant counter thief with ease. As does everything else, really.

Also about the FT thing it shows that you don't really understand how the game works , FT SCRAPPER smorks renegade since it can shut down every everything on it, certain other class is the problem with FT ill let you guess which one.

If that were the case, it would've been played in the hardstuck league, given that thief was completely absent from it (which I assume you tried to allude to). Its not the case. So it wasnt.

I could make a build that works but i don't really enjoy thief gameplay that much and spending hours just to spite people while not enjoying the game is not something i would like to do and I don't want to make some cheese that will backfire on me afterwards again . Also I don't really want to theory craft builds for people that don't deserve it.

You think too highly of yourself if you think you could while all the best players in the world couldnt. Of course you cant make that build. It doesnt exist. Thief is bad. Its not played for that reason.OU NO THIEF LOST 1 out of 3 leaps from shortbow get over it already. Thief ain't bad the AT meta will shift at some point and thief will be back and will be fine as is now.

I don't think you understand. Shortbow 5 isn't just one of thieves skills. It
was
thief. Shortbow 5, and shortbow 5 alone, was the only reason thief was good. There is no other clas as reliant on one skill as thief and shortbow 5. Thief is bad. No matter how the meta will shift, thief will not return in its current state. It will always be outclassed by ranger and revenant, who give up 1 second on their rotation speed for much higher damage, survivability and utility.

Also yes I think highly of myself about general knowledge of the game since I mostly rely on out knowing instead of out skilling people to win, also from the hot takes about other classes from the supposedly the best thief (don't know which one is the big deal know though) Sind is that he doesn't really play much the other classes and also iII think he doesn't know what makes them tick, so I think I can do better job at making a build for general queue play, which wouldn't be really that hard since thief is fine there.

Its clear you do. And its clear you let your complete ignorance of how thief functions not get in the way of that. Its clear you dont know what makes thief tick, so tis clear you can't do a better job than any thief player at making a build for thief. Hence why you dont understand that thief is bad everywhere.Strawman allot aren't we for someone that thinks that shortbow is the only way to play . Pretty big words for someone that doesn't know how to theory craft his own main class.

I don't think you know what a strawman is. And you clearly dont know how thief works if you think shortbow isnt mandatory. I know how to theory craft it, because I used to play it, and I know how it works. What it can and cannot do. You clearly do not.YOU KNOW NOTHING JON SNOW, is not really an argument man. DE with D/P or S/P + Rifle clearly doesn't need SB. To save some time you will say something like but DE is bad and will say but DE is probably one of the hardest hitting classes these days by reducing some of its mobility but getting high output and you will say but no one plays it in ATs and The big thief mains don't play DE. And this will go on and on since all your arguments are you are bad and thief is bad and the like. I had my fun with the argument but I don't think I have the power to convince you anything since you return to the same unreasonable thing over and over even though I give you reasonable arguments. That is my own fault for getting entangled and not listening to the OP and the thread name "Do not believe the teef mains".

And DE sucks. Its issue is that either you play it without shortbow, in which case it sucks because it doesnt have shortbow, or you play it with, and you just get screwed by LoS, projectile block and people teleporting on you. It also doesn't hit that particularly hard, even by todays standards. Not without the enemy being AFK to be hit by DJ, at least. And no, your arguments are the ones that are bad, since your arguments are quite literally "I know better than all the good players despite having already shown that I don't understand thief at all". You have yet to show any reason why thief is totally good. There are no "reasonable arguments" you bring, just a misconception as to how teams are built, and a misconception as to what thief can and cannot do.Call me Nostradamus cause I saw your future lol.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Kuma.1503 said:

@TheBigPlay.7504 said:Yeah don't believe thief mains.... This guys plays a kitten menders scourge... Dear god.

Me? I dont even have a necro anymore lmao. Still rocking the same default 5 character slots because I cannot be bothered to spend $20 for another. That's like... a whole kitten steam game.

there was a discount, just buy gems with gold. I wasted like 2k gold like this not too long ago lul.P.SPepegasus was worth it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@UNOwen.7132 said:

@UNOwen.7132 said:Thief is bad. Its not played for that reason.

I dont know about ATs since i still didnt played one yet, but in ranked (g2-g3 rating) i see thief in almost every game. I mainly play Core condi necro and i get destroyed by DE thiefs without having much chance to do something to them.

Thieves are always overrepresented in the lower ranks, its the same reason you often got 2 thief teams despite that being an autoloss. But its not played much above that, because its bad.

Thief is played by some top teams in tournaments.

Such as? In the Hardstuck league we only really saw the prestige, which used thief as backup for Mesmer. Which, given its mesmer, is not a great sign. They also lost.

They won EU bracket, then suffered a bit during cross region matches (with thief/mes being more ping sensitive than other meta comps maybe being a factor). Azza's team was 3rd (with DE). And that was before the recent rev nerfs.Latest mAT (EU, idk about NA) 3 out of 4 semi final teams were running thief. And Prestige wasn't even one of them.

@UNOwen.7132 said:Thief is bad. Its not played for that reason.

I dont know about ATs since i still didnt played one yet, but in ranked (g2-g3 rating) i see thief in almost every game. I mainly play Core condi necro and i get destroyed by DE thiefs without having much chance to do something to them.

Yeah... that's pretty much as bad a matchup as it gets for core necro 1v1. DE and Ranger are going to be your hardest counters. Best to play with your team if the enemy has one. They're not as useful as you in large scale fights.

Yep i understand that, but they look good in +1 and small scale fights since it looks like they have very high burst and they can aways choose their fights, because of their mobility and invisibility. Anyway my point is that i think thief is not that unplayed as @UNOwen.7132 claims.

They're ok for +1s and
terrible
for small scale fights. Their burst is pathetically
low
, but they were carried by the fact that they could rotate faster and get into position to burst faster. Now they cannot, anymore. At this point, there is no reason to play thief over ranger or revenant, who burst twice as hard, survive twice as well but only arrive in position 1 second slower. Really, the only useful aspect thief has left is stealthing their team, but thats not really relevant in a low-damage meta like we've had for months.

Ranger did never and will never compete with thief for a roamer role at high lvl play (unless they significantly buff sic'em slb - which will not happen)

Of course it will? Similar mobility, much higher damage and survivability. Probably outclassed by Revenant right now, but already superior.

Then why are there so many more thieves played in tournaments? There are zero top teams running sic'em slb right now. Even after rev nerfs. For good reasons. It has worse mobility (no ports and ports > leaps), the burst is telegraphed and easy to counter and it is susceptible to getting locked down and killed.Other ranger builds that might see some occasional play (mostly decap druid atm) fill an entirely different role and are therefore no competition for thief.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Kuma.1503 said:

@TheBigPlay.7504 said:Yeah don't believe thief mains.... This guys plays a kitten menders scourge... Dear god.

Me? I dont even have a necro anymore lmao. Still rocking the same default 5 character slots because I cannot be bothered to spend $20 for another. That's like... a whole kitten steam game.

I saw you the other day in pvp on a menders scourges. Not only are you defending the most skillest meta in gw2 history you want to keep nerfting thief. When thief is absolutely crap in the current meta. No wonder PvP in this game is bad. Because people like you that don't understand the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...