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Stuns seem a little much here lately


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I don't know your class well, but isn't cc basically the only way to put down the super tanky condi heavy variants? I guess, put another way, there are some super lethal and/or tanky necro builds out there and I wonder if slotting more stunbreaks to deal with all the cc is possible, even if it would rightly come with a cost of reduced lethality or general sustain.

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  • 2 weeks later...

the crazy cc-spam started in 2020, funnily after they started to "fix" cc skills by stripping most dmg from them.

this happened, because they additionally also nerfed several sources of stab-provinding skills, therefore cc-spamming had a far easier way to disable smaller numbers of player + anyone without a lot of stunbreaks or firebrands nearby completely, for big amounts of time.

so yeah, basically another big jump into the wrong direction, by a completely clueless balance team (or some drunken hamster working for anet) ... doing random things and selling it as "bALanCe", gg no re

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@"kamikharzeeh.8016" said:the crazy cc-spam started in 2020, funnily after they started to "fix" cc skills by stripping most dmg from them.

this happened, because they additionally also nerfed several sources of stab-provinding skills, therefore cc-spamming had a far easier way to disable smaller numbers of player + anyone without a lot of stunbreaks or firebrands nearby completely, for big amounts of time.

so yeah, basically another big jump into the wrong direction, by a completely clueless balance team (or some drunken hamster working for anet) ... doing random things and selling it as "bALanCe", gg no re

I miss the old days when stability just meant you couldn't be cc'd, and strips/corrupts/steals weren't as wide spread (I can't even remember if stab could be taken, it happened so rarely). Sure, individual stab didn't necessarily last as long as it might now, but it allowed skilled groups of 10-15 take on 40-50 person blobs like mighty heroes.

Also, RIP hammer warrior.... :(

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hammer spellbreaker is still the metabuild :P the dmg is gone surely tho, yeah.

but that hurts the gameplay of all classes nearly. the overconfident but clueless balancing people completely missed that they would make everything far more narrow-minded by destroying basically 30% of all used skills (roughly) with their "5 years too late emergency nerf package".

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The reason why you feel like there is a overwhelming influx of stuns is because they removed nearly all stab from necro aside from reaper, lichform, and scourge which only gives 1 stack. Also the fact that necros pretty much cant get away because the class itself is designed to be a tank or turret, being cc chained is not uncommon. Letting a necro freecast is just asking for death.

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@Salt Mode.3780 said:The reason why you feel like there is a overwhelming influx of stuns is because they removed nearly all stab from necro aside from reaper, lichform, and scourge which only gives 1 stack. Also the fact that necros pretty much cant get away because the class itself is designed to be a tank or turret, being cc chained is not uncommon. Letting a necro freecast is just asking for death.Thats like saying the reason there are so many permastealth thieves is because they made gyros into wells.

It makes absolutely zero sense.

The actual reason there are so much stuns is because of the minizerg zerg meta that spread to roaming. In a zerg vs zerg fight there is tons and tons of stab, but for the minizerg vs roamers this become completely loopsided. Instead of groups with 3+ roaming builds that can fight independantly and make sacrificies to build sustain, mobility and damage, the minizerg will have at least one firebrand/scrapper that can carry up to 5 people, another of them can go full stunlock build and the rest can go full dps (usually only like 20% of the group), which they then use to lock down and single target focus when they run down people 3+v1.

TL;DR minstrels is the root of all evil.

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Actually as a roamer on a class that has mobility stuns dont seem to affect me much at all. So sorry I personally dont see the increase on CC because zergs have been around regardless. What I was trying to say is as a necro it is easier to get CC locked regardless of zerg or no zerg.

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It’s more so that this is how big groups cheese much smaller groups that they can’t actually fight. I’d say that since the stab change ( which wasn’t even that drastic?) there are people playing builds specifically to stun lock smaller groups since these kind of builds would be near useless in equal numbered/outnumbered fights.

When you’re fighting 5v10+ and suddenly you see people playing sketchy builds like full tank, full cc scrapper with absolutely zero damage, multiple thieves running scorpion wire, necro running spectral grasp/ring, minstrel spell breakers running rampage+stomp+kick+bulls rush and ofc chrono, you might as well just take your hands off the keyboard. This is my experience on EU and has been for a while now on near every server. These special players running full cc builds while outnumbering are the ones basically killing roaming, there is basically no counter to it unless you take some form of support otherwise you just can’t move/press buttons.

Just to specify, these are not support builds, these are builds specifically to tank the damage and just spam cc.

It baffles me that people hate the fact that roaming groups now take firebrands, but the people complaining about boon ball are the exact reason why people play boon ball. There are absolutely zero ways to play when you have 10+ roamers ganking with the builds above.

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@Salt Mode.3780 said:Actually as a roamer on a class that has mobility stuns dont seem to affect me much at all. So sorry I personally dont see the increase on CC because zergs have been around regardless. What I was trying to say is as a necro it is easier to get CC locked regardless of zerg or no zerg.

as necro, u have trail of anguish, core necro isn't really used, reaper has to take more care when not in reaper form. that's about it... the stab removing happened to more classes. i am nearly sure that the healing skills of herald had built-in stab when i started playing.also, its the same with herald or weaver, if u let them freecast its your own fault. that is no argument however for having like a stab:cc relation of like 1:20 on everthing that's not firebrand or scrapper :P

@Faolain.2374 not drastic it may seem, but it is the obvious trigger of this. the easier gank targets have less stab and therefore can get cc-chained without much effort. that's it. this is highly abuseable, and therefore ppl do it.

the receipe to 100% beat tryhard smallgroups: when u play 5 vs 15 u just won't win either way in most cases. five players is basically a group of a zerg. in that comp, they can tank 10 ppl likely, but only if those are not experienced enough. like if there are 4/12 very new to the game and get cought off guard and die fast, its 5v8... then it's sorta clear who will win. pulls are having a crazy range and not all are avoidable, depending on your graphics settings. the small groups will try to fish for kills there, if u understand that, u can fight them better. they wait for ppl to yolo in into them in small numbers and couldn't sustain a full push.

by the way, if u mean 35-50 people groups of two colors killing one smaller group of 20-30 of the other color first, then it is bc they fear they might get doublepushed. a 20ish group is able to dish out valid dmg yet. on the right flank, they can farm two 45 ish groups that are throwing each other with poo.

complaints about boonball are a joke. roll a necro, make a scourge... try it. learn it. then you'll love to see boonballs, it's basically free real bags.

@Dawdler.8521 minstrel does not matter, it matters only in long fights or against big bombs. there's probably like 10 other bulky stat combos that could make scrapper and firebrand work pretty similar. would just make it weaker in smallscale. and more vulnerable to the yet overpowered glass cannon cancerbuilds that all the smallscale gankergroups run.

@ArchonWing.9480 well, on scourge i think i have not even two stab sources. i run the mender pvp scourge for the memes lately. gankers hate that they cannot gank it , in 90% of all cases.

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@Faolain.2374 said:It’s more so that this is how big groups cheese much smaller groups that they can’t actually fight. I’d say that since the stab change ( which wasn’t even that drastic?) there are people playing builds specifically to stun lock smaller groups since these kind of builds would be near useless in equal numbered/outnumbered fights.

When you’re fighting 5v10+ and suddenly you see people playing sketchy builds like full tank, full cc scrapper with absolutely zero damage, multiple thieves running scorpion wire, necro running spectral grasp/ring, minstrel spell breakers running rampage+stomp+kick+bulls rush and ofc chrono, you might as well just take your hands off the keyboard. This is my experience on EU and has been for a while now on near every server. These special players running full cc builds while outnumbering are the ones basically killing roaming, there is basically no counter to it unless you take some form of support otherwise you just can’t move/press buttons.

Just to specify, these are not support builds, these are builds specifically to tank the damage and just spam cc.

It baffles me that people hate the fact that roaming groups now take firebrands, but the people complaining about boon ball are the exact reason why people play boon ball. There are absolutely zero ways to play when you have 10+ roamers ganking with the builds above.

I get what you're saying, but something like Scorpion wire isn't new and likely not there just because of that composition. I've been using Scorpion Wire and have packed a lot of Control for years because treating everyone like they have a break bar to keep their mitigation in check has always been more manageable than being a glass cannon or a bunker. Something that is a quick Projectile for Fields and a possible Interrupt for Leech just makes sense to have most of the time, even if it's not a big hitter it's a reasonable cooldown and ammo fed, and likely that other stuff you mentioned is taken similarly. If you use something and people see it work in any scale fight, you'll see it used around a lot for awhile. Pull someone off a wall to their death after they've plugged a few of yours and someone else will want to do that to.

I think you'll feel a lot of your list in large zerg fights also.

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i mean the full fear necro is more of a meme build honestly. the worst about pulling are mesmers i'd say, while also quickswitch thief packs have unexpected wallpull option and reapers are quite annoying if they run pull (which is quite random, reaper can be anything)

well, one thing that could been done is to re-forge the old elite skills of the gw2-races. remember the melandru tree form, the balthazar doges etc? all have absurdly large cooldown times and barely any effects. they could be given at least sorta passive effect that procs stab under specific circumstances, then they might have any use at least :P

(melandru avatar: become big thicc tree, 240 cd, have stab during beeing a useless slow tree, gratz enjoy your existance; hounds of baltzi: 170 sec cd, summon two fire doggos who have barely HP and no dmg output at all and last not very long. nice, u have a long cooldown now for pretty much nothing gained)

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@"kash.9213" said:

I get what you're saying, but something like Scorpion wire isn't new and likely not there just because of that composition. I've been using Scorpion Wire and have packed a lot of Control for years because treating everyone like they have a break bar to keep their mitigation in check has always been more manageable than being a glass cannon or a bunker. Something that is a quick Projectile for Fields and a possible Interrupt for Leech just makes sense to have most of the time, even if it's not a big hitter it's a reasonable cooldown and ammo fed, and likely that other stuff you mentioned is taken similarly. If you use something and people see it work in any scale fight, you'll see it used around a lot for awhile. Pull someone off a wall to their death after they've plugged a few of yours and someone else will want to do that to.

I think you'll feel a lot of your list in large zerg fights also.

I mean I understand some of these skills like Scorpion Wire/Spectral Gasp being used by roamers, but i feel you're missing my point. Since these are not "proper" builds I listed, I doubt anyone is actually running these builds in zergs because as others have mentioned many times, zergs basically have perma stability. People are using these builds specifically to troll and gank. Sure there are variants of chrono, spb and necro being used in that scale but none are full cc builds, surely they are just ineffective builds vs. so many firebrands? I'm talking about builds being made specifically to abuse how stupid cc is in the lower scales, while also outnumbering. Even in a 2vs1, you can have someone running a full cc build who will completely stun lock you, while the other person autos and they will eventually kill you.

Personally I think CC skills should only be utility skills and removed from all weapon skills. This way only builds specifically made to cc can do so. Its stupid that support firebrand, support tempest or anything can add to the cc lock with zero investment into that playstyle other than having a cc skill(s) on a weapon which wasn't even chosen for that purpose. Although it doesn't really solve the overall cc issue in smaller scales, I think it'd bring a massive change in the amount of cc, since people would specifically have to invest into that playstyle.

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Immob druid, moa mesmer, heal/stab firebrand, gyro scrapper, any thief for pull and stomp security, the new 5v1 roamer gank meta!Pull, signet of domination stun, immob, moa, all five hit their 1, thief stealth shadowstep stomp, done.Psst don't worry mesmers I'm making you meta again with two critical moves in that combo!Listen, I know it'll be a tough fight, ok, but I assure you that even that perma evade thief, or a perma stealth deadeye, will not get away!Trust me on this!

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