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pls deside the scourge nerfs fast


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Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their
well
rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

Nope, barrier is not a boon.

Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

Not sure what youre referring to?

How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period
before
the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it
should
work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

Tip :Tell him :"How about removing the damage reduction from
+
+
(all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibilityandput 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

Since when do you want to buff thief?

You are trying :PTelling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

Edit , what ?We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :PSo we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

"In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

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Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their
well
rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

Nope, barrier is not a boon.

Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

Not sure what youre referring to?

How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period
before
the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it
should
work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

Tip :Tell him :"How about removing the damage reduction from
+
+
(all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibilityandput 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

Since when do you want to buff thief?

You are trying :PTelling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

Edit , what ?We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :PSo we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

"In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

But you want more damage to your class .And that that damage reduction , were used to a bygone era that we had Burst .Its a Win Win situation .Mobas have more Burst and they can dies in less than 3 sec .When we increase the damage and the Thief can 1-hit-KO , then we try to change Steal > to a Bull Rush animation ,so the enemy can see the inc attack , or you can use Shadow Step to sucrifice Survibility cd to reduce the counterplay

Also , if people still whine , bring back Toughness AmueltsAnd if they still whine , release more Bruiser-Survibility Builds

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Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their
well
rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

Nope, barrier is not a boon.

Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

Not sure what youre referring to?

How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period
before
the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it
should
work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

Tip :Tell him :"How about removing the damage reduction from
+
+
(all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibilityandput 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

Since when do you want to buff thief?

You are trying :PTelling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

Edit , what ?We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :PSo we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

"In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

I feel in a sense we agree in a way just taking one anothers arguments to different lengths. Yes messing up should be punishable.

I play commonly high damage builds so when someone messes up I feel my kill time is very quick. However I don't think damage should be raised up to punish people passively.

The player also needs to understand and execute properly to capitalise on the enemy's mistake.

For example. It shouldn't be player A forgot to click this defensive fast enough so they take 12k dmg.

It should be player A mistimed this CD and due to that player B did a 3 step combo into a burst which shredded the player. .

There has to be the skill for player A to survive a encounter through his defensives. And enough burst for player B to punish a mistake when the player misuses his survivability.

But then you also need a layer where player A can make a comeback if skilled enough to react in a way and adapt to survive the mistake

The skill level is basically 3 layers and each critea has to be ticked. Thus u will have a fast paced PvP game.

If any of the 3 are wrecked. Then the game burns down to either one shot bursting each other. Or players simply just going til the first runs out of tools.

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Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their
well
rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

Nope, barrier is not a boon.

Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

Not sure what youre referring to?

How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period
before
the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it
should
work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

Tip :Tell him :"How about removing the damage reduction from
+
+
(all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibilityandput 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

Since when do you want to buff thief?

You are trying :PTelling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

Edit , what ?We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :PSo we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

"In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

I feel in a sense we agree in a way just taking one anothers arguments to different lengths. Yes messing up should be punishable.

I play commonly high damage builds so when someone messes up I feel my kill time is very quick. However I don't think damage should be raised up to punish people passively.

It has to be raised, because right now its not working. Kill time, at the best of times, is incredibly high. Youre usually looking at upwards of 5 seconds on an afk opponent, nevermind someone actually playing the game.

The player also needs to understand and execute properly to capitalise on the enemy's mistake.

Which was already the case before.

For example. It shouldn't be player A forgot to click this defensive fast enough so they take 12k dmg.

If they failed to react to a long telegraph, yeah they should take a good chunk of damage.

It should be player A mistimed this CD and due to that player B did a 3 step combo into a burst which shredded the player. .

Thats just the same thing ,worded differently.

There has to be the skill for player A to survive a encounter through his defensives. And enough burst for player B to punish a mistake when the player misuses his survivability.

Which, again, was the case pre-february, and is not and will never be the case now, until damage is increased again.

But then you also need a layer where player A can make a comeback if skilled enough to react in a way and adapt to survive the mistake

You shouldnt lose from a single mistake, but you should be unfavoured. If your opponent then does more mistakes, you should be able to come back. Which, once again, was the case pre-february. Now? It will never be the case.

The skill level is basically 3 layers and each critea has to be ticked. Thus u will have a fast paced PvP game.

So, pre-february. Something that can only exist again once damage is increased.

If any of the 3 are wrecked. Then the game burns down to either one shot bursting each other. Or players simply just going til the first runs out of tools.

Yes, and thats the problem we have right now. The damage isnt there, so its just players simply going til the first one runs out of tools (Which never happens, so it goes on infinitely).

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Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their
well
rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

Nope, barrier is not a boon.

Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

Not sure what youre referring to?

How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period
before
the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it
should
work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

Tip :Tell him :"How about removing the damage reduction from
+
+
(all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibilityandput 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

Since when do you want to buff thief?

You are trying :PTelling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

Edit , what ?We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :PSo we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

"In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

But you want more damage to your class .And that that damage reduction , were used to a bygone era that we had Burst .Its a Win Win situation .Mobas have more Burst and they can dies in less than 3 sec .When we increase the damage and the Thief can 1-hit-KO , then we try to change Steal > to a Bull Rush animation ,so the enemy can see the inc attack , or you can use Shadow Step to sucrifice Survibility cd to reduce the counterplay

Also , if people still whine , bring back Toughness AmueltsAnd if they still whine , release more Bruiser-Survibility Builds

Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their
well
rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

Nope, barrier is not a boon.

Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

Not sure what youre referring to?

How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period
before
the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it
should
work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

Tip :Tell him :"How about removing the damage reduction from
+
+
(all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibilityandput 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

Since when do you want to buff thief?

You are trying :PTelling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

Edit , what ?We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :PSo we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

"In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

But you want more damage to your class .

Given their loss of SB5, yes, thief needs a higher increase than other classes, and an increase in survivability. Part of why your suggestion is stupid, but I digress.

Now, as I've said before. Are you done trolling? Frankly I dont intend to reply to you, and you are just always wrong, so all your posts do is waste space. Keep them to yourself.

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Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their
well
rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

Nope, barrier is not a boon.

Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

Not sure what youre referring to?

How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period
before
the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it
should
work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

Tip :Tell him :"How about removing the damage reduction from
+
+
(all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibilityandput 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

Since when do you want to buff thief?

You are trying :PTelling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

Edit , what ?We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :PSo we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

"In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

But you want more damage to your class .And that that damage reduction , were used to a bygone era that we had Burst .Its a Win Win situation .Mobas have more Burst and they can dies in less than 3 sec .When we increase the damage and the Thief can 1-hit-KO , then we try to change Steal > to a Bull Rush animation ,so the enemy can see the inc attack , or you can use Shadow Step to sucrifice Survibility cd to reduce the counterplay

Also , if people still whine , bring back Toughness AmueltsAnd if they still whine , release more Bruiser-Survibility Builds

Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their
well
rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

Nope, barrier is not a boon.

Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

Not sure what youre referring to?

How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period
before
the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it
should
work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

Tip :Tell him :"How about removing the damage reduction from
+
+
(all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibilityandput 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

Since when do you want to buff thief?

You are trying :PTelling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

Edit , what ?We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :PSo we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

"In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

But you want more damage to your class .

Given their loss of SB5, yes, thief needs a higher increase than other classes, and an increase in survivability. Part of why your suggestion is stupid, but I digress.

Now, as I've said before. Are you done trolling? Frankly I dont intend to reply to you, and you are just always wrong, so all your posts do is waste space. Keep them to yourself.

All the other claasses hit with Mobility Nerfs , even Rangers (after the Febr patch) and Revs :PYou want more damage , and the 30% damageeduction is un-neccesery in this metaAs you said , Mobas can burst each other in 3 sec . Lets start from Thief , were you ofc, dont play for 1 year now :P

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Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their
well
rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

Nope, barrier is not a boon.

Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

Not sure what youre referring to?

How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period
before
the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it
should
work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

Tip :Tell him :"How about removing the damage reduction from
+
+
(all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibilityandput 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

Since when do you want to buff thief?

You are trying :PTelling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

Edit , what ?We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :PSo we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

"In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

I feel in a sense we agree in a way just taking one anothers arguments to different lengths. Yes messing up should be punishable.

I play commonly high damage builds so when someone messes up I feel my kill time is very quick. However I don't think damage should be raised up to punish people passively.

It has to be raised, because right now its not working. Kill time, at the best of times, is incredibly high. Youre usually looking at upwards of 5 seconds on an afk opponent, nevermind someone actually playing the game.

The player also needs to understand and execute properly to capitalise on the enemy's mistake.

Which was already the case before.

For example. It shouldn't be player A forgot to click this defensive fast enough so they take 12k dmg.

If they failed to react to a long telegraph, yeah they should take a good chunk of damage.

It should be player A mistimed this CD and due to that player B did a 3 step combo into a burst which shredded the player. .

Thats just the same thing ,worded differently.

There has to be the skill for player A to survive a encounter through his defensives. And enough burst for player B to punish a mistake when the player misuses his survivability.

Which, again, was the case pre-february, and is not and will never be the case now, until damage is increased again.

But then you also need a layer where player A can make a comeback if skilled enough to react in a way and adapt to survive the mistake

You shouldnt lose from a single mistake, but you should be unfavoured. If your opponent then does more mistakes, you should be able to come back. Which, once again, was the case pre-february. Now? It will never be the case.

The skill level is basically 3 layers and each critea has to be ticked. Thus u will have a fast paced PvP game.

So, pre-february. Something that can only exist again once damage is increased.

If any of the 3 are wrecked. Then the game burns down to either one shot bursting each other. Or players simply just going til the first runs out of tools.

Yes, and thats the problem we have right now. The damage isnt there, so its just players simply going til the first one runs out of tools (Which never happens, so it goes on infinitely).

It is and it isn't the same thing. 1 is just simply the damage being so high it passively punishes the player for making a mistake by generic numbering.

Case 2 requires the player to know to hold onto its burst for when the enemy player messes up. Which is very different. Fighting without exhausting CDs and abilities to ensure their open for a window of opportunity.

If you press 2 5 times and the enemy doesn't react properly to Ur 3rd attack. And it hits for 12k it's different to holding back with sustained damage til a window of opportunity opens to use your harder hitting abilities.

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Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their
well
rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

Nope, barrier is not a boon.

Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

Not sure what youre referring to?

How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period
before
the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it
should
work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

Tip :Tell him :"How about removing the damage reduction from
+
+
(all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibilityandput 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

Since when do you want to buff thief?

You are trying :PTelling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

Edit , what ?We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :PSo we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

"In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

But you want more damage to your class .And that that damage reduction , were used to a bygone era that we had Burst .Its a Win Win situation .Mobas have more Burst and they can dies in less than 3 sec .When we increase the damage and the Thief can 1-hit-KO , then we try to change Steal > to a Bull Rush animation ,so the enemy can see the inc attack , or you can use Shadow Step to sucrifice Survibility cd to reduce the counterplay

Also , if people still whine , bring back Toughness AmueltsAnd if they still whine , release more Bruiser-Survibility Builds

Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their
well
rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

Nope, barrier is not a boon.

Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

Not sure what youre referring to?

How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period
before
the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it
should
work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

Tip :Tell him :"How about removing the damage reduction from
+
+
(all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibilityandput 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

Since when do you want to buff thief?

You are trying :PTelling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

Edit , what ?We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :PSo we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

"In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

But you want more damage to your class .

Given their loss of SB5, yes, thief needs a higher increase than other classes, and an increase in survivability. Part of why your suggestion is stupid, but I digress.

Now, as I've said before. Are you done trolling? Frankly I dont intend to reply to you, and you are just always wrong, so all your posts do is waste space. Keep them to yourself.

All the other claasses hit with Mobility Nerfs , even Rangers (after the Febr patch) and Revs :P

And yet they're barely slower. And better in every other regard.

You want more damage , and the 30% damageeduction is un-neccesery in this meta

Its not? Its something, helps you survive when outnumbered, besides the point is to make thief a sidenode duelist, if were gonna buff everyones damage up, thief also needs survivability boosts, so no removing of any, and just adding more.

As you said , Mobas can burst each other in 3 sec . Lets start from Thief , were you ofc, dont play for 1 year now :P

Can. The threat of it happening is there. But as I explained before, its the threat thats important, not it happening. Then again I dont know why I bother. You have shown that you are strictly opposed to learning, and would rather remain proudly ignorant rather than humbly knowledgable. So, do everyone a favour, and never post about topics you dont understand again.

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Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their
well
rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

Nope, barrier is not a boon.

Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

Not sure what youre referring to?

How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period
before
the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it
should
work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

Tip :Tell him :"How about removing the damage reduction from
+
+
(all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibilityandput 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

Since when do you want to buff thief?

You are trying :PTelling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

Edit , what ?We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :PSo we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

"In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

I feel in a sense we agree in a way just taking one anothers arguments to different lengths. Yes messing up should be punishable.

I play commonly high damage builds so when someone messes up I feel my kill time is very quick. However I don't think damage should be raised up to punish people passively.

It has to be raised, because right now its not working. Kill time, at the best of times, is incredibly high. Youre usually looking at upwards of 5 seconds on an afk opponent, nevermind someone actually playing the game.

The player also needs to understand and execute properly to capitalise on the enemy's mistake.

Which was already the case before.

For example. It shouldn't be player A forgot to click this defensive fast enough so they take 12k dmg.

If they failed to react to a long telegraph, yeah they should take a good chunk of damage.

It should be player A mistimed this CD and due to that player B did a 3 step combo into a burst which shredded the player. .

Thats just the same thing ,worded differently.

There has to be the skill for player A to survive a encounter through his defensives. And enough burst for player B to punish a mistake when the player misuses his survivability.

Which, again, was the case pre-february, and is not and will never be the case now, until damage is increased again.

But then you also need a layer where player A can make a comeback if skilled enough to react in a way and adapt to survive the mistake

You shouldnt lose from a single mistake, but you should be unfavoured. If your opponent then does more mistakes, you should be able to come back. Which, once again, was the case pre-february. Now? It will never be the case.

The skill level is basically 3 layers and each critea has to be ticked. Thus u will have a fast paced PvP game.

So, pre-february. Something that can only exist again once damage is increased.

If any of the 3 are wrecked. Then the game burns down to either one shot bursting each other. Or players simply just going til the first runs out of tools.

Yes, and thats the problem we have right now. The damage isnt there, so its just players simply going til the first one runs out of tools (Which never happens, so it goes on infinitely).

It is and it isn't the same thing. 1 is just simply the damage being so high it passively punishes the player for making a mistake by generic numbering.

That can't happen, because that no longer has anything to do with mistakes. You cant block or dodge 100% of attacks, the mistakes part is failing to avoid the hardhitting ones.

Case 2 requires the player to know to hold onto its burst for when the enemy player messes up. Which is very different. Fighting without exhausting CDs and abilities to ensure their open for a window of opportunity.

No, thats the same as case 1.

If you press 2 5 times and the enemy doesn't react properly to Ur 3rd attack. And it hits for 12k it's different to holding back with sustained damage til a window of opportunity opens to use your harder hitting abilities.

As I explained, that can't happen, because it no longer has anything to do with mistakes.

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Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their
well
rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

Nope, barrier is not a boon.

Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

Not sure what youre referring to?

How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period
before
the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it
should
work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

Tip :Tell him :"How about removing the damage reduction from
+
+
(all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibilityandput 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

Since when do you want to buff thief?

You are trying :PTelling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

Edit , what ?We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :PSo we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

"In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

But you want more damage to your class .And that that damage reduction , were used to a bygone era that we had Burst .Its a Win Win situation .Mobas have more Burst and they can dies in less than 3 sec .When we increase the damage and the Thief can 1-hit-KO , then we try to change Steal > to a Bull Rush animation ,so the enemy can see the inc attack , or you can use Shadow Step to sucrifice Survibility cd to reduce the counterplay

Also , if people still whine , bring back Toughness AmueltsAnd if they still whine , release more Bruiser-Survibility Builds

Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their
well
rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

Nope, barrier is not a boon.

Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

Not sure what youre referring to?

How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period
before
the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it
should
work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

Tip :Tell him :"How about removing the damage reduction from
+
+
(all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibilityandput 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

Since when do you want to buff thief?

You are trying :PTelling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

Edit , what ?We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :PSo we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

"In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

But you want more damage to your class .

Given their loss of SB5, yes, thief needs a higher increase than other classes, and an increase in survivability. Part of why your suggestion is stupid, but I digress.

Now, as I've said before. Are you done trolling? Frankly I dont intend to reply to you, and you are just always wrong, so all your posts do is waste space. Keep them to yourself.

All the other claasses hit with Mobility Nerfs , even Rangers (after the Febr patch) and Revs :P

And yet they're barely slower. And better in every other regard.

You want more damage , and the 30% damageeduction is un-neccesery in this meta

Its not? Its something, helps you survive when outnumbered, besides the point is to make thief a sidenode duelist, if were gonna buff everyones damage up, thief also needs survivability boosts, so no removing of any, and just adding more.

As you said , Mobas can burst each other in 3 sec . Lets start from Thief , were you ofc, dont play for 1 year now :P

Can
. The
threat
of it happening is there. But as I explained before, its the threat thats important, not it happening. Then again I dont know why I bother. You have shown that you are strictly opposed to learning, and would rather remain proudly ignorant rather than humbly knowledgable. So, do everyone a favour, and never post about topics you dont understand again.

And yet Thief is fasterIf Thief need 30% damage reduction + the Acro tree to survive teamfights , then it doesnt need damageIts no longer Assasin , but a Bruiser

So if he has that Survibility in teafights , then the whole Argurment , that Moba = die in 1-2 sec , is invalidEither he will have =3-% more damage to Fight the single noder , or 30% reduction for teamfights :P

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Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their
well
rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

Nope, barrier is not a boon.

Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

Not sure what youre referring to?

How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period
before
the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it
should
work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

Tip :Tell him :"How about removing the damage reduction from
+
+
(all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibilityandput 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

Since when do you want to buff thief?

You are trying :PTelling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

Edit , what ?We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :PSo we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

"In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

I feel in a sense we agree in a way just taking one anothers arguments to different lengths. Yes messing up should be punishable.

I play commonly high damage builds so when someone messes up I feel my kill time is very quick. However I don't think damage should be raised up to punish people passively.

It has to be raised, because right now its not working. Kill time, at the best of times, is incredibly high. Youre usually looking at upwards of 5 seconds on an afk opponent, nevermind someone actually playing the game.

The player also needs to understand and execute properly to capitalise on the enemy's mistake.

Which was already the case before.

For example. It shouldn't be player A forgot to click this defensive fast enough so they take 12k dmg.

If they failed to react to a long telegraph, yeah they should take a good chunk of damage.

It should be player A mistimed this CD and due to that player B did a 3 step combo into a burst which shredded the player. .

Thats just the same thing ,worded differently.

There has to be the skill for player A to survive a encounter through his defensives. And enough burst for player B to punish a mistake when the player misuses his survivability.

Which, again, was the case pre-february, and is not and will never be the case now, until damage is increased again.

But then you also need a layer where player A can make a comeback if skilled enough to react in a way and adapt to survive the mistake

You shouldnt lose from a single mistake, but you should be unfavoured. If your opponent then does more mistakes, you should be able to come back. Which, once again, was the case pre-february. Now? It will never be the case.

The skill level is basically 3 layers and each critea has to be ticked. Thus u will have a fast paced PvP game.

So, pre-february. Something that can only exist again once damage is increased.

If any of the 3 are wrecked. Then the game burns down to either one shot bursting each other. Or players simply just going til the first runs out of tools.

Yes, and thats the problem we have right now. The damage isnt there, so its just players simply going til the first one runs out of tools (Which never happens, so it goes on infinitely).

It is and it isn't the same thing. 1 is just simply the damage being so high it passively punishes the player for making a mistake by generic numbering.

That can't happen, because that no longer has anything to do with mistakes. You cant block or dodge 100% of attacks, the mistakes part is failing to avoid the hardhitting ones.

Case 2 requires the player to know to hold onto its burst for when the enemy player messes up. Which is very different. Fighting without exhausting CDs and abilities to ensure their open for a window of opportunity.

No, thats the same as case 1.

If you press 2 5 times and the enemy doesn't react properly to Ur 3rd attack. And it hits for 12k it's different to holding back with sustained damage til a window of opportunity opens to use your harder hitting abilities.

As I explained, that can't happen, because it no longer has anything to do with mistakes.

You can't block 100% of abilities you are right, that is why sustained damage shouldnt be high, burst should be

This can be done by introducing utility abilities that increase your damage by a large amount of a duration with CDs and high damaging ultimates etc etc. Which introduces a burst meta.

Where mistakes can occur in attacking a player and defending a enemy.

Mistiming or misuse of your damaging abilities will remove the ability to kill your target just as much as the defending players misuse of defensives will cause Ur burst to kill them instantly.

That is what I'm poorly worded stating.

Both sides have to be played properly, which would require the introduction of real Burst CDs where people can spike in damage by a large amount when used properly.

Mistakes have to affect both the offense and defense of a player. Which is what I'm ultimately stating. Which is why modifiers and burst cooldowns are generally a better approach to achieving a meta.

Because u have to multiply the damage by 5 by default. As the games balanced as a 5v5 team battle not a 1v1 duel.

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Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their
well
rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

Nope, barrier is not a boon.

Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

Not sure what youre referring to?

How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period
before
the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it
should
work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

Tip :Tell him :"How about removing the damage reduction from
+
+
(all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibilityandput 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

Since when do you want to buff thief?

You are trying :PTelling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

Edit , what ?We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :PSo we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

"In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

I feel in a sense we agree in a way just taking one anothers arguments to different lengths. Yes messing up should be punishable.

I play commonly high damage builds so when someone messes up I feel my kill time is very quick. However I don't think damage should be raised up to punish people passively.

It has to be raised, because right now its not working. Kill time, at the best of times, is incredibly high. Youre usually looking at upwards of 5 seconds on an afk opponent, nevermind someone actually playing the game.

The player also needs to understand and execute properly to capitalise on the enemy's mistake.

Which was already the case before.

For example. It shouldn't be player A forgot to click this defensive fast enough so they take 12k dmg.

If they failed to react to a long telegraph, yeah they should take a good chunk of damage.

It should be player A mistimed this CD and due to that player B did a 3 step combo into a burst which shredded the player. .

Thats just the same thing ,worded differently.

There has to be the skill for player A to survive a encounter through his defensives. And enough burst for player B to punish a mistake when the player misuses his survivability.

Which, again, was the case pre-february, and is not and will never be the case now, until damage is increased again.

But then you also need a layer where player A can make a comeback if skilled enough to react in a way and adapt to survive the mistake

You shouldnt lose from a single mistake, but you should be unfavoured. If your opponent then does more mistakes, you should be able to come back. Which, once again, was the case pre-february. Now? It will never be the case.

The skill level is basically 3 layers and each critea has to be ticked. Thus u will have a fast paced PvP game.

So, pre-february. Something that can only exist again once damage is increased.

If any of the 3 are wrecked. Then the game burns down to either one shot bursting each other. Or players simply just going til the first runs out of tools.

Yes, and thats the problem we have right now. The damage isnt there, so its just players simply going til the first one runs out of tools (Which never happens, so it goes on infinitely).

It is and it isn't the same thing. 1 is just simply the damage being so high it passively punishes the player for making a mistake by generic numbering.

That can't happen, because that no longer has anything to do with mistakes. You cant block or dodge 100% of attacks, the mistakes part is failing to avoid the hardhitting ones.

Case 2 requires the player to know to hold onto its burst for when the enemy player messes up. Which is very different. Fighting without exhausting CDs and abilities to ensure their open for a window of opportunity.

No, thats the same as case 1.

If you press 2 5 times and the enemy doesn't react properly to Ur 3rd attack. And it hits for 12k it's different to holding back with sustained damage til a window of opportunity opens to use your harder hitting abilities.

As I explained, that can't happen, because it no longer has anything to do with mistakes.

You can't block 100% of abilities you are right, that is why sustained damage shouldnt be high, burst should be

Sustained damage should be high enough for there to be a conclusion to the fight.

This can be done by introducing utility abilities that increase your damage by a large amount of a duration with CDs and high damaging ultimates etc etc. Which introduces a burst meta.

This is not a great idea, actually. Because then if your first burst cant immediately kill the enemy, you get the same endless deadlock we have now. Burst needs to be independent of special utilities, and you need to have more than one way of bursting.

Where mistakes can occur in attacking a player and defending a enemy.

Mistiming or misuse of your damaging abilities will remove the ability to kill your target just as much as the defending players misuse of defensives will cause Ur burst to kill them instantly.

That was already the case, but it shouldnt remove it completely, just reduce it. If it removes completely, you get deadlocked situations again.

That is what I'm poorly worded stating.

Both sides have to be played properly, which would require the introduction of real Burst CDs where people can spike in damage by a large amount when used properly.

No, that would completely backfire and do the opposite. What we need to do is simple. Revert to the pre-february meta. Then maybe shave off a little damage (but only a little).

Mistakes have to affect both the offense and defense of a player. Which is what I'm ultimately stating. Which is why modifiers and burst cooldowns are generally a better approach to achieving a meta.

As mentioned above, they'Re not.

Because u have to multiply the damage by 5 by default. As the games balanced as a 5v5 team battle not a 1v1 duel.

You don't? Its a 5v5 team game, but you never fight 5v5. And 1v1s are where the game is failing horrifically right now.

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Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their
well
rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

Nope, barrier is not a boon.

Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

Not sure what youre referring to?

How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period
before
the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it
should
work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

Tip :Tell him :"How about removing the damage reduction from
+
+
(all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibilityandput 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

Since when do you want to buff thief?

You are trying :PTelling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

Edit , what ?We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :PSo we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

"In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

I feel in a sense we agree in a way just taking one anothers arguments to different lengths. Yes messing up should be punishable.

I play commonly high damage builds so when someone messes up I feel my kill time is very quick. However I don't think damage should be raised up to punish people passively.

It has to be raised, because right now its not working. Kill time, at the best of times, is incredibly high. Youre usually looking at upwards of 5 seconds on an afk opponent, nevermind someone actually playing the game.

The player also needs to understand and execute properly to capitalise on the enemy's mistake.

Which was already the case before.

For example. It shouldn't be player A forgot to click this defensive fast enough so they take 12k dmg.

If they failed to react to a long telegraph, yeah they should take a good chunk of damage.

It should be player A mistimed this CD and due to that player B did a 3 step combo into a burst which shredded the player. .

Thats just the same thing ,worded differently.

There has to be the skill for player A to survive a encounter through his defensives. And enough burst for player B to punish a mistake when the player misuses his survivability.

Which, again, was the case pre-february, and is not and will never be the case now, until damage is increased again.

But then you also need a layer where player A can make a comeback if skilled enough to react in a way and adapt to survive the mistake

You shouldnt lose from a single mistake, but you should be unfavoured. If your opponent then does more mistakes, you should be able to come back. Which, once again, was the case pre-february. Now? It will never be the case.

The skill level is basically 3 layers and each critea has to be ticked. Thus u will have a fast paced PvP game.

So, pre-february. Something that can only exist again once damage is increased.

If any of the 3 are wrecked. Then the game burns down to either one shot bursting each other. Or players simply just going til the first runs out of tools.

Yes, and thats the problem we have right now. The damage isnt there, so its just players simply going til the first one runs out of tools (Which never happens, so it goes on infinitely).

It is and it isn't the same thing. 1 is just simply the damage being so high it passively punishes the player for making a mistake by generic numbering.

That can't happen, because that no longer has anything to do with mistakes. You cant block or dodge 100% of attacks, the mistakes part is failing to avoid the hardhitting ones.

Case 2 requires the player to know to hold onto its burst for when the enemy player messes up. Which is very different. Fighting without exhausting CDs and abilities to ensure their open for a window of opportunity.

No, thats the same as case 1.

If you press 2 5 times and the enemy doesn't react properly to Ur 3rd attack. And it hits for 12k it's different to holding back with sustained damage til a window of opportunity opens to use your harder hitting abilities.

As I explained, that can't happen, because it no longer has anything to do with mistakes.

You can't block 100% of abilities you are right, that is why sustained damage shouldnt be high, burst should be

Sustained damage should be high enough for there to be a conclusion to the fight.

This can be done by introducing utility abilities that increase your damage by a large amount of a duration with CDs and high damaging ultimates etc etc. Which introduces a burst meta.

This is not a great idea, actually. Because then if your first burst cant immediately kill the enemy, you get the same endless deadlock we have now. Burst needs to be independent of special utilities, and you need to have more than one way of bursting.

Where mistakes can occur in attacking a player and defending a enemy.

Mistiming or misuse of your damaging abilities will remove the ability to kill your target just as much as the defending players misuse of defensives will cause Ur burst to kill them instantly.

That was already the case, but it shouldnt remove it completely, just reduce it. If it removes completely, you get deadlocked situations again.

That is what I'm poorly worded stating.

Both sides have to be played properly, which would require the introduction of real Burst CDs where people can spike in damage by a large amount when used properly.

No, that would completely backfire and do the opposite. What we need to do is simple. Revert to the pre-february meta. Then maybe shave off a little damage (but only a little).

Mistakes have to affect both the offense and defense of a player. Which is what I'm ultimately stating. Which is why modifiers and burst cooldowns are generally a better approach to achieving a meta.

As mentioned above, they'Re not.

Because u have to multiply the damage by 5 by default. As the games balanced as a 5v5 team battle not a 1v1 duel.

You don't? Its a 5v5 team game, but you never fight 5v5. And 1v1s are where the game is failing horrifically right now.

Or self-subtain need a nerf .Lets nerf Bunk and classes that have 30% damage reduction :P

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Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their
well
rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

Nope, barrier is not a boon.

Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

Not sure what youre referring to?

How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period
before
the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it
should
work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

Tip :Tell him :"How about removing the damage reduction from
+
+
(all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibilityandput 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

Since when do you want to buff thief?

You are trying :PTelling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

Edit , what ?We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :PSo we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

"In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

I feel in a sense we agree in a way just taking one anothers arguments to different lengths. Yes messing up should be punishable.

I play commonly high damage builds so when someone messes up I feel my kill time is very quick. However I don't think damage should be raised up to punish people passively.

It has to be raised, because right now its not working. Kill time, at the best of times, is incredibly high. Youre usually looking at upwards of 5 seconds on an afk opponent, nevermind someone actually playing the game.

The player also needs to understand and execute properly to capitalise on the enemy's mistake.

Which was already the case before.

For example. It shouldn't be player A forgot to click this defensive fast enough so they take 12k dmg.

If they failed to react to a long telegraph, yeah they should take a good chunk of damage.

It should be player A mistimed this CD and due to that player B did a 3 step combo into a burst which shredded the player. .

Thats just the same thing ,worded differently.

There has to be the skill for player A to survive a encounter through his defensives. And enough burst for player B to punish a mistake when the player misuses his survivability.

Which, again, was the case pre-february, and is not and will never be the case now, until damage is increased again.

But then you also need a layer where player A can make a comeback if skilled enough to react in a way and adapt to survive the mistake

You shouldnt lose from a single mistake, but you should be unfavoured. If your opponent then does more mistakes, you should be able to come back. Which, once again, was the case pre-february. Now? It will never be the case.

The skill level is basically 3 layers and each critea has to be ticked. Thus u will have a fast paced PvP game.

So, pre-february. Something that can only exist again once damage is increased.

If any of the 3 are wrecked. Then the game burns down to either one shot bursting each other. Or players simply just going til the first runs out of tools.

Yes, and thats the problem we have right now. The damage isnt there, so its just players simply going til the first one runs out of tools (Which never happens, so it goes on infinitely).

It is and it isn't the same thing. 1 is just simply the damage being so high it passively punishes the player for making a mistake by generic numbering.

That can't happen, because that no longer has anything to do with mistakes. You cant block or dodge 100% of attacks, the mistakes part is failing to avoid the hardhitting ones.

Case 2 requires the player to know to hold onto its burst for when the enemy player messes up. Which is very different. Fighting without exhausting CDs and abilities to ensure their open for a window of opportunity.

No, thats the same as case 1.

If you press 2 5 times and the enemy doesn't react properly to Ur 3rd attack. And it hits for 12k it's different to holding back with sustained damage til a window of opportunity opens to use your harder hitting abilities.

As I explained, that can't happen, because it no longer has anything to do with mistakes.

You can't block 100% of abilities you are right, that is why sustained damage shouldnt be high, burst should be

Sustained damage should be high enough for there to be a conclusion to the fight.

This can be done by introducing utility abilities that increase your damage by a large amount of a duration with CDs and high damaging ultimates etc etc. Which introduces a burst meta.

This is not a great idea, actually. Because then if your first burst cant immediately kill the enemy, you get the same endless deadlock we have now. Burst needs to be independent of special utilities, and you need to have more than one way of bursting.

Where mistakes can occur in attacking a player and defending a enemy.

Mistiming or misuse of your damaging abilities will remove the ability to kill your target just as much as the defending players misuse of defensives will cause Ur burst to kill them instantly.

That was already the case, but it shouldnt remove it completely, just reduce it. If it removes completely, you get deadlocked situations again.

That is what I'm poorly worded stating.

Both sides have to be played properly, which would require the introduction of real Burst CDs where people can spike in damage by a large amount when used properly.

No, that would completely backfire and do the opposite. What we need to do is simple. Revert to the pre-february meta. Then maybe shave off a little damage (but only a little).

Mistakes have to affect both the offense and defense of a player. Which is what I'm ultimately stating. Which is why modifiers and burst cooldowns are generally a better approach to achieving a meta.

As mentioned above, they'Re not.

Because u have to multiply the damage by 5 by default. As the games balanced as a 5v5 team battle not a 1v1 duel.

You don't? Its a 5v5 team game, but you never fight 5v5. And 1v1s are where the game is failing horrifically right now.

well u may not fight 5 on 5 but i wouldnt say i've experienced many 1 on 1s... normally atleast someone on one side gets involved.. unless we're talking Solo queues with 0 Communication?

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Then make reaper thief mesmers stronger at boonripping then. Make these classes who are heavy on boonrips desired to be played for countering scourge.

What was it chrono that had all the rips? where are the chronos bring back chrono viability to counter scourge.

Chrono's ability to rip boon come from the mesmer. More accurately it mainly come from it's sword AA and is mainly relevant in PvE group content (dungeon/fractal/raid/... etc.). It got other tools to do so but they can hardly compete with whatever a necromancer offer.

Thiefs mostly remove boons on single target and, more often then not, need to be at melee range to do so. Making the fit risky for them.

Revenant have some tools to remove/convert boons but it's mostly single target and cost them energy that is better used elsewhere.

Spellbreaker also got it's share of boonriping, yet it's melee range.

Reaper isn't really any weaker than scourge in removing boons, it just got less variety of tools to do so and focus more on melee range.

Now, if we talk about WvW, Scourge is simply the most effective boon converter because he got the most range/mid-range AoE boon converting tools. Nothing more, nothing less. You can nerf all other fonctions of the e-spec to the ground, it won't change the fact that scourge will stay a valuable profession in WvW for this reason.

Understand that making chrono compete with scourge on boon riping in WvW mean that you need to powercreep him in boon riping effect and even with that it will be seen as "lacking" because "boon rip" is ultimately weaker than "boon conversion". So, if it was the goal, you'd still have people asking for "more".

Neither Chrono, thief, revenant nor reaper are specifically designed around boon riping while Scourge is. Spellbreaker is designed around boon riping but it's area of expertise is melee range not range/mid range.

NB.: Just to be clear, to allow chrono a similar level of boon riping than Scourge, you don't need much, you simply need to make their
well
rip a boon on their last tic. However, it wouldn't make chrono more attractive to the role than Scourge, nor would it fit it's thematic.

As for the sPvP perspective, unfortunately, all the above still stand true.

I'm kinda confused can barrier be stolen by ripping or stolen by thief?

Nope, barrier is not a boon.

Also what about giving deadeyes barrier bonus thing that warriors have?

Not sure what youre referring to?

How long precisely do you think it should take for a thief to drop a player built to hold a node?

Clearly youre replying to the wrong content. Anyway, until SB5 was nerfed, thief shouldnt (and wasnt able) to do so on its own. When +1ing, very quickly, else +1ing is pointless. Now, lets rephrase it to a better question. "On average, how long should fights between sidenoders, and how long should they last if one of them screws up badly?" Currently, the answers are, in order, "literally infinite" and .... "literally infinite". Thats not good.

Because you sound like you want this to be something that happens within under 5 seconds..

If one of them messes up that badly? Sure. Mistakes should be punishable. The worse your mistakes are, the harsher the punishment. If you dont mess up? Well, the average time for a fight pre-feb patch felt pretty good. 30 seconds to a minute is long enough to be enjoyable, but not so long its literally a drag.

Which would make it impossible to defend points.. so u may aswell make it a death match.

If you dont make mistakes, its very much so possible.

U would just cap points and run in a rotation.

Thats already whats happening, because without rotating, sidenoder duels are infinite.

The games PvP is designed to basically resemble a moba format, and as u can swiftly tell mobas don't have champions flattening each other in 5 seconds unless their fed.

Someone hasnt played a MOBA in ... ever, actually. Because yeah, mobas absolutely do have that. In fact, its the norm. If you mess up, the enemy can quickly kill you and take over the lane. Now, what you might be confused by is the period
before
the messing up, but the same is true for the pre-february meta, so, yknow.

Like do u think the idea of 3 shotting players fits a game like gw2? Because id say it'd need a heavy rework.

The idea of being able to 3-shot players if they seriously screw up? Absolutely. Thats core to GW2. Its how the game always worked, and how it
should
work. There is a reason why the metas where even if you screwed up you didnt really run any major risk are the by far worst ones, both the entirety of post-feb meta minus maybe Holosmith, and of course bunker metas we had in early HoT.

The idea of 5v5 everyone playing thief and sprinting to nodes on repeat just doesn't sound like good gameplay in the slightest. You can argue into the ground. But it simply doesn't work.

I dont know why you keep talking about "everyone playing thief" as if that is a thing that ever happened. And of course it doesnt work, because youre misrepresenting the idea.

GW2 PvP is conceptually built off the concept of brawling one another to take points. That's the litteral point of gw2 PvP.

And that only works if sidenoder fights end. If there is enough damage to punish mistakes.

I'd recommend looking for arena PvP if you want fast games of gibbing one another.

Again, misrepresenting the situation. But please, if you want a PvP game where 1v1s are as pointless as they are here to the point where synchronised dancing is more effective and enjoyable, go play DDR.

Fast paced PvP is the hardest style of PvP to Ballance and the easiest to get completely wrong. To stack that ontop of a game mode which effectively makes the position of every player predictable..

Its the easiest, actually. Glacial pace, such as the one we have now, is the hardest to balance, because you dont have nearly enough levers to work with. How do you nerf a class without making it unplayable? How do you buff a class without making it a problem? There is a reason no games go for glacial paces very long, and the ones that do inevitably end up with worse balance.

In gw2 BGs are the main gameplay. So either that changes and makes what Ur after feasible. Or they uphold gw2 playing moba style PvP where the 1v1s are slower.

Again, 1v1s in Mobas are not at all slower. You seem to be confused by MOBAs, as you clearly have not played them.

Everyone's played mobas. I've played mobas, and unless one side is completely outskilled before one gets a head of the other generally it's common to bring a gank in to secure kills from a jungle.

Your overexaggerations are dishonest, the game isn't glacial paced. I've yet to even see a dual take a "litteral infinity" to end

If I mess up I die pretty instantly, I play mainly rev and have played both ele and mesmer. And I get flattened if I mess up. I've seen warriors stun me and kill me before I finish when I don't avoid things

I'm sorry but the game ain't "glacial paced". Iinked u a litteral video of a dude 3 shotting with power chrono in SPVP lol.

If the games glacial then Ur teams aren't fighting each other all that much. By the sounds of it you guys are just spamming survivability and not bothering to attack one another.

Cause we aren't experiencing the same things lmao.

The only time I see fights lasting longer is when neither player are messing up. Or both players are too bad at the game to take advantage of each other messing up.

However if I go against someone that knows exactly where to play their time. I will die in seconds flat if I mess up.

I was against a power mesmer. Fecked up and he litterally burst me instantly and I died faster then his animation ended lmfao.

It sounds like you just want the game to deliever the numbers to mean you don't actually have to know how to punish a mistake. You just want the mistake to matter. And that's not "skillful" it flat out isn't.

If your wasting your burst into his CDs. Instead of utilising your burst to hit him when he makes a mistake then yeah the fights gonna be long. Ur litterally throwing Ur burst out the window.

Tip :Tell him :"How about removing the damage reduction from
+
+
(all the Daredevil -same tree)... now that their no-longer a Burst meta , where Thief dont needs Survibilityandput 30% damage increase in Deadly Arts or Critical Strikes "

Since when do you want to buff thief?

You are trying :PTelling people that Backstab does 5k , while 3k on Rev , because he has 600 more Armor than Ele

Also because Renegade actually has defensive modifiers. But youd have to know the game if that was the case.

Condition Thief can only do 10 k in 5 sec , vs 30k hp Necro

10k? Maybe if youre spamming under conditions, normally it wont do nearly as much.

Lets remove the Defensive options fromDaredevil and Buff the offensive ones in Deadly trait , like Moba . And whoever makes a mistakes dies :P

Sure, remove the defensive options and increase the damage in Daredevil. Thieves would appreciate that buff, no one cares about the defense, and more damage would be nice.

Edit , what ?We will put the 30% increase in Deadly or Crit :PSo we reduce the chance to use Daredevil + Acro Survibility :P

So you just want to nerf Daredevil for the sake of it, and have it be dropped in favour of Deadly Arts again? I mean, its still a buff, just done stupidly, then again, since you dont know the first thing about thief, its not terribly surprising. Now, are you done trolling?

"In Mobas , 1-1 can burst each other easilly"So by reducing the 30% survibility and increasing the damage we become more with Mobas , that by making mistakes you can popunish each other .That was your previous cecullar comment with Daddy :P

You dont need to reduce survivability, just increase damage across the boards. But again, Im not surprised you didnt read properly. Are you done yet?

I feel in a sense we agree in a way just taking one anothers arguments to different lengths. Yes messing up should be punishable.

I play commonly high damage builds so when someone messes up I feel my kill time is very quick. However I don't think damage should be raised up to punish people passively.

It has to be raised, because right now its not working. Kill time, at the best of times, is incredibly high. Youre usually looking at upwards of 5 seconds on an afk opponent, nevermind someone actually playing the game.

The player also needs to understand and execute properly to capitalise on the enemy's mistake.

Which was already the case before.

For example. It shouldn't be player A forgot to click this defensive fast enough so they take 12k dmg.

If they failed to react to a long telegraph, yeah they should take a good chunk of damage.

It should be player A mistimed this CD and due to that player B did a 3 step combo into a burst which shredded the player. .

Thats just the same thing ,worded differently.

There has to be the skill for player A to survive a encounter through his defensives. And enough burst for player B to punish a mistake when the player misuses his survivability.

Which, again, was the case pre-february, and is not and will never be the case now, until damage is increased again.

But then you also need a layer where player A can make a comeback if skilled enough to react in a way and adapt to survive the mistake

You shouldnt lose from a single mistake, but you should be unfavoured. If your opponent then does more mistakes, you should be able to come back. Which, once again, was the case pre-february. Now? It will never be the case.

The skill level is basically 3 layers and each critea has to be ticked. Thus u will have a fast paced PvP game.

So, pre-february. Something that can only exist again once damage is increased.

If any of the 3 are wrecked. Then the game burns down to either one shot bursting each other. Or players simply just going til the first runs out of tools.

Yes, and thats the problem we have right now. The damage isnt there, so its just players simply going til the first one runs out of tools (Which never happens, so it goes on infinitely).

It is and it isn't the same thing. 1 is just simply the damage being so high it passively punishes the player for making a mistake by generic numbering.

That can't happen, because that no longer has anything to do with mistakes. You cant block or dodge 100% of attacks, the mistakes part is failing to avoid the hardhitting ones.

Case 2 requires the player to know to hold onto its burst for when the enemy player messes up. Which is very different. Fighting without exhausting CDs and abilities to ensure their open for a window of opportunity.

No, thats the same as case 1.

If you press 2 5 times and the enemy doesn't react properly to Ur 3rd attack. And it hits for 12k it's different to holding back with sustained damage til a window of opportunity opens to use your harder hitting abilities.

As I explained, that can't happen, because it no longer has anything to do with mistakes.

You can't block 100% of abilities you are right, that is why sustained damage shouldnt be high, burst should be

Sustained damage should be high enough for there to be a conclusion to the fight.

This can be done by introducing utility abilities that increase your damage by a large amount of a duration with CDs and high damaging ultimates etc etc. Which introduces a burst meta.

This is not a great idea, actually. Because then if your first burst cant immediately kill the enemy, you get the same endless deadlock we have now. Burst needs to be independent of special utilities, and you need to have more than one way of bursting.

Where mistakes can occur in attacking a player and defending a enemy.

Mistiming or misuse of your damaging abilities will remove the ability to kill your target just as much as the defending players misuse of defensives will cause Ur burst to kill them instantly.

That was already the case, but it shouldnt remove it completely, just reduce it. If it removes completely, you get deadlocked situations again.

That is what I'm poorly worded stating.

Both sides have to be played properly, which would require the introduction of real Burst CDs where people can spike in damage by a large amount when used properly.

No, that would completely backfire and do the opposite. What we need to do is simple. Revert to the pre-february meta. Then maybe shave off a little damage (but only a little).

Mistakes have to affect both the offense and defense of a player. Which is what I'm ultimately stating. Which is why modifiers and burst cooldowns are generally a better approach to achieving a meta.

As mentioned above, they'Re not.

Because u have to multiply the damage by 5 by default. As the games balanced as a 5v5 team battle not a 1v1 duel.

You don't? Its a 5v5 team game, but you never fight 5v5. And 1v1s are where the game is failing horrifically right now.

well u may not fight 5 on 5 but i wouldnt say i've experienced many 1 on 1s... normally atleast someone on one side gets involved.. unless we're talking Solo queues with 0 Communication?

You dont experience many of them right now, because they are infinite and pointless, so someone will always rotate around to +1. But, thats the issue. On the other hand, when 1v1s actually finished? It wasnt uncommon to see a sidenoder duel reach a conclusion.

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