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The damage multiplier in WvW is broken


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I have been noticing more classes exploiting the traits and skills that boost raw damage multipliers and often these builds either can macro spike you dead in a second flat for 20,000 plus damage or can tank or stealth till you are dead or pop shroud and tank five plus players at once while dealing out 5,000 damage per hit....

....I keep seeing attacks that shouldn't do 5,000 damage for their low cast time do 8,000 damage. or attacks that hit twice doing 5,000+ per hit and can be stacked on top of other attacks for even more damage...

...Did the developers give up on balancing this game? Are the only way to win no is to cheat? Or should we just give up and let the cheaters win?

Someone shake the developers and wake em up so they can fix the broken mess in World vs World of 100% crit chance high damage dealing cheaters.

I personally suggest that all damage modifiers that boost your damage also have a side affect. Either dealing as much damage to self, applying a weakness like condition that cannot be removed to self for 20 seconds or more when a damage modifier or for permanent damage boost modifiers a reduction in toughness and vitality while in use for the same percent the boost gives. That way if you go all power you go glass cannon.

Kill of the all power damage exploit builds for good in WvW. It only encourages cheating.

Ps I would also like to see all skills and actions cancel all other skills and actions if used on top of already skills and or actions that are in progress to stop some of the botter's spike builds and also the botter thief's favorite macro bot maneuver of starting a finisher, teleporting away, then teleporting back perfectly in time to complete the finisher move avoiding any and all counters, If you do interrupt them or get revived they complete the botted script of teleporting back and having to start again or do something else.

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Ever played a soldier or wanderer build?

If you feel too squishy even in this gear, WvW is simply not made for you, because the sustain is good enough - even too good for some specific builds.

The sustain in organised groups is generally too high. But that's a result of a few broken support skills and not a general issue of the game mode.

And the amount of "cheating", "scripting" and "exploiting" excuses for your inability to adapt is surreal.

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@CelestialCat.6240 said:I have been noticing more classes exploiting the traits and skills that boost raw damage multipliers and often these builds either can macro spike you dead in a second flat for 20,000 plus damage or can tank or stealth till you are dead or pop shroud and tank five plus players at once while dealing out 5,000 damage per hit....

Exploiting? Not likely.

Researching and understanding what their skills actually do? Yes.

....I keep seeing attacks that shouldn't do 5,000 damage for their low cast time do 8,000 damage. or attacks that hit twice doing 5,000+ per hit and can be stacked on top of other attacks for even more damage...

So you’ve done the math and checked what stacked boons and sigils etc should do? Which skill is working differently than it is established?

...Did the developers give up on balancing this game?

Well yes. Yes they did.

Are the only way to win no is to cheat? Or should we just give up and let the cheaters win?

Cheat? So understanding essentially the rule book and how to use it for your advantage is cheating. You mean they should ‘Git Bad’?

Someone shake the developers and wake em up so they can fix the broken mess in World vs World of 100% crit chance high damage dealing cheaters.

Again with the cheaters.,..

I personally suggest that all damage modifiers that boost your damage also have a side affect. Either dealing as much damage to self, applying a weakness like condition that cannot be removed to self for 20 seconds or more when a damage modifier or for permanent damage boost modifiers a reduction in toughness and vitality while in use for the same percent the boost gives. That way if you go all power you go glass cannon.

Ok. A suggestion versus an accusation without merit. Of course, it’s way off base but.

Kill of the all power damage exploit builds for good in WvW. It only encourages cheating.

Again with the exploits. And you haven’t listed any actual exploits...

Ps I would also like to see all skills and actions cancel all other skills and actions if used on top of already skills and or actions that are in progress to stop some of the botter's spike builds and also the botter thief's favorite macro bot maneuver of starting a finisher, teleporting away, then teleporting back perfectly in time to complete the finisher move avoiding any and all counters, If you do interrupt them or get revived they complete the botted script of teleporting back and having to start again or do something else.

Teleport stomp is extremely easy to pull off. Within a day of playing it, even an old man such as I could manage that... It’s not a bot lol.

Please look at the skills and understand how they function with multiple boons. Do some math.

And maybe get a little more time in WvW. You obviously didn’t play longer than about a year ago. Or at least since the huge damage nerf that took place last year.

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There are plenty of stat combos that get various professions to 100% crit. That's not an exploit that's just playing the game.

Thief teleport stomp is working as intended and there would be little point in making a stomp macro (you are better off just pressing F, your Shadowstep key, and then Return when the channel bar is 95% filled up).

Big damage skills are possible usually with a combination of conditional/situational bonuses that will not last very long. Quickness is an example of a short term boon that heavily increases damage by letting players stack lots of abilities in a short time. This is both intended and a good thing. There is more sustain than damage these days so if the attacker whiffs their attack they will be hitting like a wet noodle and not be a threat.

Stealth and short term sustain abilities are how higher damage builds don't get instantly deleted off the field by higher sustain builds. You think it is unfair but the same stealth or tank abilities are available to you. They are the ones over relying on those skills and if they use them up they are actually at a huge disadvantage until the cooldown expires. You do have to play around them. This is working as intended.

I realize you and many people think the devs have given up on balance. However, the devs have also been working on balance for a while now. Of course there are always issues, but the huge damage reductions the game has seen over the last year and a half is the devs vision of balance. We can disagree but you can't say they aren't following some kind of balancing philosophy. The pace is slower because we haven't seen a new expansion for a while so, in theory, balance issues shouldn't be as severe now (again in their mind not necessarily what players would agree with).

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Someone shake the developers and wake em up so they can fix the broken mess in World vs World of 100% crit chance high damage dealing cheaters.

You are confused. None of this is cheating.

90%+ crit chance is the only viable way to build Power-damage builds in any game mode. Otherwise you're just rolling the dice on every skill use and big cooldowns may end up hitting like a complete wet noodle even when you do everything right.

I personally suggest that all damage modifiers that boost your damage also have a side affect. Either dealing as much damage to self, applying a weakness like condition that cannot be removed to self for 20 seconds or more when a damage modifier or for permanent damage boost modifiers a reduction in toughness and vitality while in use for the same percent the boost gives. That way if you go all power you go glass cannon.

The builds you're fighting are glass cannons. You're just playing some weird garbage that can't deal damage at all, from the sound of it.

Ps I would also like to see all skills and actions cancel all other skills and actions if used on top of already skills and or actions that are in progress to stop some of the botter's spike builds and also the botter thief's favorite macro bot maneuver of starting a finisher, teleporting away, then teleporting back perfectly in time to complete the finisher move avoiding any and all counters, If you do interrupt them or get revived they complete the botted script of teleporting back and having to start again or do something else.

You don't need a bot to do this, the little bar fills up to tell you exactly when to port back. Try it yourself! It's REALLY EASY.

Thieves don't have Stability or Invuln, so if your allies aren't asleep they can counter this particular style of safe-stomp by either CCing the thief in the spot they've ported to (your downed skills can't reach them but they can) or by counting to 4 and spamming CC around you when the stomp would connect, or by just spamming CC around you when you go down so the thief can't initiate the stomp (this will work even if they apply stealth before stomping — also if they take the time to stealth up first someone can rub you back to life before the stomp animation completes). If any of that's too hard, just giving stealth to a downed player will prevent even the most perfectly-executed safe stomp by any class.

In summary: What the heck is all this? Learn to kitten play.

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I'd like to see this replicated on the Armistice Bastion golem. Otherwise it is just another "I got hit by an attack with 25 vuln and in an enemy keep with full might + boons".

edit: also all skills are split only numerically between modes so what is suggested with severe downsides to modifiers would never happen.

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@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:the only damage multipliers that are still broken are deadeye and soulbeast, maybe holo one shot meme too.

Consider this dmg coefficient.....https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ghastly_Clawshttps://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soul_Spiral

None of the high dmg hitting skills of ranger has the same high power coefficient as the example of skills above:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Maul_(ranger_greatsword_skill)https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Backstab

Look at thief and ranger...without damage multipliers they would hit like a wet noodle, fascinating how the vast majority of dmg multipliers require specific situations and fulfil predetermined requirements to be active...still a single ghastly_Claws can eat 70% of my DPS ele build for example in a single instance...but somehow that's balanced compared to ranger and thief I can almost laugh at while using the same DPS build.........

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:the only damage multipliers that are still broken are deadeye and soulbeast, maybe holo one shot meme too.

Consider this dmg coefficient.....

None of the high dmg hitting skills of ranger has the same high power coefficient as the example of skills above:
)

Look at thief and ranger...without damage multipliers they would hit like a wet noodle, fascinating how the vast majority of dmg multipliers require specific situations and fulfil predetermined requirements to be active...still a single ghastly_Claws can eat 70% of my DPS ele build for example in a single instance...but somehow that's balanced compared to ranger and thief I can almost laugh at while using the same DPS build.........

Yeah, but you're also playing a freaking necro. The single most immobile class in the game.

Like yeah, it's a truckload of power. On a class that has two tricks to disengage fights and that's about it. When you play Necro and you enter a fight, you're pretty committed to that fight. Both spectral walk and flesh wurm tell the enemies exactly where you're going to teleport to if they're paying attention.

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@TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:the only damage multipliers that are still broken are deadeye and soulbeast, maybe holo one shot meme too.

Consider this dmg coefficient.....

None of the high dmg hitting skills of ranger has the same high power coefficient as the example of skills above:
)

Look at thief and ranger...without damage multipliers they would hit like a wet noodle, fascinating how the vast majority of dmg multipliers require specific situations and fulfil predetermined requirements to be active...still a single ghastly_Claws can eat 70% of my DPS ele build for example in a single instance...but somehow that's balanced compared to ranger and thief I can almost laugh at while using the same DPS build.........

Yeah, but you're also playing a freaking necro. The single most immobile class in the game.

Like yeah, it's a truckload of power. On a class that has two tricks to disengage fights and that's about it. When you play Necro and you enter a fight, you're pretty committed to that fight. Both spectral walk and flesh wurm tell the enemies exactly where you're going to teleport to if they're paying attention.

Most immobile clas title would go to guardian tyvm.......Reaper with dash and perma swiftness is anything but immobile ...especially because movement impairing conditions are either removed or severely reduced while In reaper mode. In addition, let's not forget that 80% of necro attacks are AoE based...and not single target and reflectable ...available every 10s or so.

I am not here to crusade for nerfs against necros..just stating the facts

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:the only damage multipliers that are still broken are deadeye and soulbeast, maybe holo one shot meme too.

Consider this dmg coefficient.....

None of the high dmg hitting skills of ranger has the same high power coefficient as the example of skills above:
)

Look at thief and ranger...without damage multipliers they would hit like a wet noodle, fascinating how the vast majority of dmg multipliers require specific situations and fulfil predetermined requirements to be active...still a single ghastly_Claws can eat 70% of my DPS ele build for example in a single instance...but somehow that's balanced compared to ranger and thief I can almost laugh at while using the same DPS build.........

Yeah, but you're also playing a freaking necro. The single most immobile class in the game.

Like yeah, it's a truckload of power. On a class that has two tricks to disengage fights and that's about it. When you play Necro and you enter a fight, you're pretty committed to that fight. Both spectral walk and flesh wurm tell the enemies exactly where you're going to teleport to if they're paying attention.

Most immobile clas title would go to guardian tyvm.......Reaper with dash and perma swiftness is anything but immobile ...especially because movement impairing conditions are either removed or severely reduced while In reaper mode. In addition, let's not forget that 80% of necro attacks are AoE based...and not single target and reflectable ...available every 10s or so.

I am not here to crusade for nerfs against necros..just stating the facts

Ah yes. That highly mobile form which you're most likely consuming for damage, see: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soul_Spiral for example. Rather than to disengage.

Guardian's only the most immobile if you build it that way. No shouts/no sword/no gs/not dh. Then yeah, mobility is going to be a problem for you.

That's not even getting into the fact that I can cherrypick power coefficients too.https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Whirling_Defense

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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:Guardian's only the most immobile if you build it that way.
Totally
unlike the necro, I'm sure.

Even if you build necro for mobility, you've got 2 meh, predictable abilities to warp you backwards to where you placed them. And one solid mobility option in the form of Reaper shroud 2.

Compared to guardian with sword 2, a great gap closer. GS 3, a great gap closer/opener. Renewed Focus, which yes is an invulnerability but invulnerabilities allow you to reposition yourself in big ways. Retreat & Stand your Ground, both opening you up to either engage or disengage basically any class in the game. Judge's Intervention, Merciful Intervention.

And again, while not a mobility skill in the same sense renewed focus isn't, Shelter easily lets you reposition or disengage fights.

That's on top of better access to condition cleanses which makes it far easier to disengage from fights with condition builds.

And everything I mentioned there on guardian is available to every guardian spec. Reaper shroud 2 isn't available to every necro spec.

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@CelestialCat.6240 said:I have been noticing more classes exploiting the traits and skills that boost raw damage multipliers and often these builds either can macro spike you dead in a second flat for 20,000 plus damage or can tank or stealth till you are dead or pop shroud and tank five plus players at once while dealing out 5,000 damage per hit....

Why do you think it's a macro, what proof do you have? What skills? Unless you know you can burst the barrier etc why are you not kiting it out?

....I keep seeing attacks that shouldn't do 5,000 damage for their low cast time do 8,000 damage. or attacks that hit twice doing 5,000+ per hit and can be stacked on top of other attacks for even more damage...

What skills? What trait is making them OP?

...Did the developers give up on balancing this game? Are the only way to win no is to cheat? Or should we just give up and let the cheaters win?

WvW was left for dead some time ago. However, while there are cheaters in this game (ask me how I know) I am able to provide video proof of the cheating, what do you have? Calling people cheaters based on what you have said so far, makes me think they were just better than you and not cheating, however I am very much so open to seeing what you have as proof and if they were cheating, fully support them being banned.

Someone shake the developers and wake em up so they can fix the broken mess in World vs World of 100% crit chance high damage dealing cheaters.

Dealing high dmg is cheating? I will let you in on something, I have never seen a cheating program that allows modification of stats. Instant teleport to mouse location, radar, wall walking, no clipping etc etc all exist, however I have never seen anything that can change your stats and have yet to see anyone claim other wise provide proof.

And for power builds, if you are not close to 100% crit as someone else stated, the build is just not going to work well as most burst builds depend on very specific skills critting in a very specific setup/rotation.

I personally suggest that all damage modifiers that boost your damage also have a side affect. Either dealing as much damage to self, applying a weakness like condition that cannot be removed to self for 20 seconds or more when a damage modifier or for permanent damage boost modifiers a reduction in toughness and vitality while in use for the same percent the boost gives. That way if you go all power you go glass cannon.

Anyone dealing those numbers is glass cannon, however they are probably better than you and see your rotation coming from a mile away so you end up landing zero dmg, I have fights like this all the time.

Kill of the all power damage exploit builds for good in WvW. It only encourages cheating.

What exploits? Why does it encourage cheating?

Ps I would also like to see all skills and actions cancel all other skills and actions if used on top of already skills and or actions that are in progress to stop some of the botter's spike builds and also the botter thief's favorite macro bot maneuver of starting a finisher, teleporting away, then teleporting back perfectly in time to complete the finisher move avoiding any and all counters, If you do interrupt them or get revived they complete the botted script of teleporting back and having to start again or do something else.

They do, however a number of skills are instant cast and these do not effect others. Doing this would mean needing to rebalance just about everything, thief port stomping like already said is needed to stomp some and can still be stopped. Wait for them to start the downward motion and you know they are porting back soon, use a CC and done. I do this all the time with shield 5 on my DH build. I also use port stomping for thieves all the time, as most are going to use their DS skill to port out of my stomp, so I wait until 95% cast and use JI to follow the thief when they port to get the stomp off.

What it sounds like is you don't know the game or other classes and skills, as such you think everything is cheating because not knowing the other classes and skills also means you don't know their counters. I am not saying some are not over performing, but this does not seem to be one of those cases.

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The problem with Necro mobility is not about it being able to get away, but rather there's no way to pursue opponents. Flesh wurm is too slow without prepping it before hand, and Spectral Walk can only send you backwards. Neither will save you if you get attacked by surprise.

People suggesting reaper shroud 2 as some awesome mobility skill is pretty silly too. Not only is it horrifically telegraphed, it requires you to be in shroud to begin with. If your opponent decides to leap (or in some cases) just walk away from you, say goodbye to your life force.

Guardian isn't that much more mobile. While they have mobility tools, you can only fit so many in a viable build (actually using the GS to hit anyone is just a huge chore and running multiple shouts is probably not too good for roaming). Also sword 2 is nice but the symbol can put you in combat. IMO the biggest advantage to guardian over necro is the passive blocks and several panic buttons if you get jumped. Necro on the other hand has only awful stun breaks.

Yes there is condi core necro, but once fights go above duels you just become this punching bag that gets batted aside while you watch your allies die because you're too slow to keep up and so they can spend the next 10 minutes beating on you while you try your best to walk back to the nearest tower I guess.

But I have to admit necro has never really worked for me despite me playing 1k hours on it (3rd most played class, and my first). However, I have never cried over losing to a necro in a fair fight, as it was 100% my fault every time.

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:the only damage multipliers that are still broken are deadeye and soulbeast, maybe holo one shot meme too.

Consider this dmg coefficient.....

None of the high dmg hitting skills of ranger has the same high power coefficient as the example of skills above:
)

Look at thief and ranger...without damage multipliers they would hit like a wet noodle, fascinating how the vast majority of dmg multipliers require specific situations and fulfil predetermined requirements to be active...still a single ghastly_Claws can eat 70% of my DPS ele build for example in a single instance...but somehow that's balanced compared to ranger and thief I can almost laugh at while using the same DPS build.........

there is no reason soulbeast and deadeye should be hitting with +100% damage modifiers from +1500 range, case closed

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:the only damage multipliers that are still broken are deadeye and soulbeast, maybe holo one shot meme too.

Consider this dmg coefficient.....

None of the high dmg hitting skills of ranger has the same high power coefficient as the example of skills above:
)

Look at thief and ranger...without damage multipliers they would hit like a wet noodle, fascinating how the vast majority of dmg multipliers require specific situations and fulfil predetermined requirements to be active...still a single ghastly_Claws can eat 70% of my DPS ele build for example in a single instance...but somehow that's balanced compared to ranger and thief I can almost laugh at while using the same DPS build.........

there is no reason soulbeast and deadeye should be hitting with +100% damage modifiers from +1500 range, case closed

Well, that's true. Who let's themselves get hit by something at 1500 range?

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:the only damage multipliers that are still broken are deadeye and soulbeast, maybe holo one shot meme too.

Consider this dmg coefficient.....

None of the high dmg hitting skills of ranger has the same high power coefficient as the example of skills above:
)

Look at thief and ranger...without damage multipliers they would hit like a wet noodle, fascinating how the vast majority of dmg multipliers require specific situations and fulfil predetermined requirements to be active...still a single ghastly_Claws can eat 70% of my DPS ele build for example in a single instance...but somehow that's balanced compared to ranger and thief I can almost laugh at while using the same DPS build.........

there is no reason soulbeast and deadeye should be hitting with +100% damage modifiers from +1500 range, case closed

If you still die to oneshot meme builds , you have to improve....because that type of builds is easy to counter and it's here to stay

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@"Stand The Wall.6987" said:the only damage multipliers that are still broken are deadeye and soulbeast, maybe holo one shot meme too.

Consider this dmg coefficient.....

None of the high dmg hitting skills of ranger has the same high power coefficient as the example of skills above:
)

I'm not sure it's really pertinent to compare channeled skills coefficients (resulting from many small to medium hits) to single hit skills coefficients.

Here you point out specifically the necromancer's channeled skills coefficients but I could say that warrior's hundred blade coefficient is above both the skills you point out and the same goes for guardian's whirling wrath. That said, it's merely "how" those coefficient are shown on the wiki, thief's unload for example only show the coefficient per hit, not the coefficient for the whole channel and it's quite underwhelming showed like that. For example, both Ghastly claw and Soul spiral would show a 0.3 coefficient per hit if they had the same wiki tooltip than unload which stand at 0.27.

Edit: Ranger also have a channeled skills with high coefficients, it's rapid fire (coef 2.75) and whirling defense (coef 5.28). (Reminder that: Ghastly claw stand at 2.664 while Soul spiral stand at 2.7).So let's not compare apples and oranges please.

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Stand The Wall.6987 said:the only damage multipliers that are still broken are deadeye and soulbeast, maybe holo one shot meme too.

Consider this dmg coefficient.....

None of the high dmg hitting skills of ranger has the same high power coefficient as the example of skills above:
)

Look at thief and ranger...without damage multipliers they would hit like a wet noodle, fascinating how the vast majority of dmg multipliers require specific situations and fulfil predetermined requirements to be active...still a single ghastly_Claws can eat 70% of my DPS ele build for example in a single instance...but somehow that's balanced compared to ranger and thief I can almost laugh at while using the same DPS build.........

there is no reason soulbeast and deadeye should be hitting with +100% damage modifiers from +1500 range, case closed

If you still die to oneshot meme builds , you have to improve....because that type of builds is easy to counter and it's here to stay

You didn't adequately present the absurdity. He's talking about dying to one shot meme builds... at 1500 range. In gw2, where just moving back and forth makes range attacks miss more the further away you are....

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