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Mystic Coin Scarcity Problem - [Merged]


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@Cleopatra.4068 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:The implication there is a 'shortage' of MC's is rather nonsensical. There CAN'T be a shortage of items you get for FREE over time. Maybe you don't get as many as you want when you want them ... but that certainly is not honest to say that's a 'shortage'.

When the demand exceeds the supply, that is a shortage. Not getting as many as you want when you want them is literally the definition of a shortage.

If you look at GW2BLTC, the auction-house "demand" (buy orders) exceeds the "supply" (standing sell orders) on nearly any item that's not priced into the gutter. The reason for that is really simple: you actually have to have the item in hand to sell it, whereas a buy order is just a speculative position.

Based on the trading post data as best as I can read it, Mystic Coins don't seem to be bottlenecking the overall crafting rate of Legendaries, so there's no shortage of the commodity itself.

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@Fueki.4753 said:I'm surprised people still use the Recipe to get their clovers I have at least two full stacks just from doing PvP and WvW dailies and reward tracks.

I do that and get it from the login but it depends. I still use the recipe especially for the last few clovers just because I feel like finishing it faster. Sometimes it is because I started making some other compoents and I wanted to finish the whole thing during that session.

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@"Joote.4081" said:Never mind mystic coins, where are the oranges? I have scoured the map for those juicy treats for months and never found one. Have they removed oranges as they did with snowflakes?

The wiki is a great place to start looking for a specific item.Oranges aren't harvestable and only drop from specific bags, Snowflakes are only available during Wintersday.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"ASP.8093" said:It's not "scarcity" if thousands of the things are available for just a few coppers above the sell-it-now price.If you're wealthy enough, few things are truly scarce. This has nothing to do with overall scarcity of said resource.

Something given to every account for logging in may not qualify as scarce.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Ashen.2907" said:Something given to every account for logging in may not qualify as scarce.Or it may, depending on the rate.

Ok. Say you need about 250 Mystic Coins for a gen 1 legendary (77 clovers, and you're making them the hard way), 500 for a gen 2 (250 coins + 77 clovers).

You get 20 Mystic Coins a month without doing anything. Plus another 1-3 a month for just doing the Mystic Forger daily when it comes up (takes ten seconds, you can just shovel any ol' trash into the Forge to get the free coin).

That's around 250 coins a year for daily logins, no farming.

Selecting Mystic Clovers from the Day 28 Chest will also give you about 77 Clovers after a year, just daily logins, no farming. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chest_of_Loyalty

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@"ASP.8093" said:Ok. Say you need about 250 Mystic Coins for a gen 1 legendary (77 clovers, and you're making them the hard way), 500 for a gen 2 (250 coins + 77 clovers).

You get 20 Mystic Coins a month without doing anything. Plus another 1-3 a month for just doing the Mystic Forger daily when it comes up (takes ten seconds, you can just shovel any ol' trash into the Forge to get the free coin).

That's around 250 coins a year for daily logins, no farming.

Selecting Mystic Clovers from the Day 28 Chest will also give you about 77 Clovers after a year, just daily logins, no farming. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chest_of_LoyaltyAnd for some people that do less than one legendary a year it may be enough. For those that work a little bit faster than that however...(hint: if the rate at which we're obtaining MCs was sufficient for those people that have an use for them, MCs would not be increasing in price).

Also, one thing you missed is that not everyone logs in every day. And those that do, are more likely to work on legendaries faster.

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If what is 'scarce' depends on the individual's rate of consumption, that's not a problem Anet needs to solve to begin with. No argument based on the point of 'subjective scarcity' will be a compelling reason to make certain materials more widely available. If you can't get enough MC's in the timeframe you want them with the methods available, that's not a game problem.

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@Obtena.7952 said:If what is 'scarce' depends on the individual's rate of consumption, that's not a problem Anet needs to solve to begin with. No argument based on the point of 'subjective scarcity' will be a compelling reason to make certain materials more widely available. If you can't get enough MC's in the timeframe you want them with the methods available, that's not a game problem.You are the one trying to base the scarcity around individual availability, and not a general one. One person being able to buy enough MCs for their need is (unlike what you claimed earlier) not a sign that there's no scarcity. Scarcity is when the overall demand is greater than supply (and when an increase in demand cannot be met with increase in supply, because there's some sort of limit on that) - and that's what is happening with MCs. The price keeps going up, because for years the supply cannot catch up with demand.

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@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Obtena.7952" said:If what is 'scarce' depends on the individual's rate of consumption, that's not a problem Anet needs to solve to begin with. No argument based on the point of 'subjective scarcity' will be a compelling reason to make certain materials more widely available. If you can't get enough MC's in the timeframe you want them with the methods available, that's not a game problem.
You
are the one trying to base the scarcity around individual availability, and not a general one.

No, that's not true because I'm not making ANY point based on scarcity either way so ...

One person being able to buy enough MCs for their need is (unlike what you claimed earlier) not a sign that there's no scarcity. Scarcity is when the overall demand is greater than supply (and when an increase in demand cannot be met with increase in supply, because there's some sort of limit on that) - and that's what is happening with MCs. The price keeps going up, because for years the supply cannot catch up with demand.

OK ... it doesn't matter what your definition of scarcity is because something being scarce that we have multiple ways to obtain means scarcity isn't a problem.

I get it ... try to show MC's are "scarce", and hope Anet jumps in with a 'Doric Lake' solution to MC's .. RIGHT? Unfortunately, that approach doesn't make sense because I'm pretty sure Anet didn't forget they literally give MC's away for free to everyone. Put it this way, the solution to your 'scarce' MC's already exists ... doing the things you need to do to get them.

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@Cleopatra.4068 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:The implication there is a 'shortage' of MC's is rather nonsensical. There CAN'T be a shortage of items you get for FREE over time. Maybe you don't get as many as you want when you want them ... but that certainly is not honest to say that's a 'shortage'.

When the demand exceeds the supply, that is a shortage. Not getting as many as you want when you want them is literally the definition of a shortage.

So you can't get as many as you want off the TP?

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@Astralporing.1957 said:And for some people that do less than one legendary a year it may be enough. For those that work a little bit faster than that however...(hint: if the rate at which we're obtaining MCs was sufficient for those people that have an use for them, MCs would not be increasing in price).

Also, one thing you missed is that not everyone logs in every day. And those that do, are more likely to work on legendaries faster.

Well, the people who want to make five legendaries a year can go play the game for more than five minutes a day, then. ¯\(ツ)

Mystic Coins are the only part of legendary crafting that hasn't fallen in value over the years. The overall price of legendaries on the TP, or even other Mystic-Coin-guzzlers like Infinite Light, emphatically hasn't skyrocketed, even as the average player's income seems to have increased quite a bit.

The way that MC acquisition is front-loaded makes this arrangement good for casual players who want a bit of gold to play with, the free sources of MCs and Clovers are sufficient for someone who wants to make a Legendary as a long-term goal to get those components without having to care about TP prices, and if the people who want to be swimming in bling end up subsidizing the first group a bit by buying MCs at 2g10s instead of 1g20s, I am 100% fine with that, it's fine, I absolutely do not care.

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People seem forget that legendary items are a luxury not a necessity. It is glamour it is for looks it isn't needed for endgame content nor does it make you stronger. If you want it then farm for it, there are plenty ways to make gold now compared to making legendaries back then before HoT/PoF dropped.

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I farmed in-game for all the Thief-useable Legendaries I like, but if people rather farm RL for shiny weapons then go for it... I used to hold onto my coins in case they gave Thief a new one I'd want like Frostfang but I keep getting so many clovers from random things over time like tracks that it seemed pointless and sold'em all.Besides, I think gem2gold converters make my gold2gem prices cheaper? So wew if so.

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@WindBlade.8749 said:Yea and now legendary are worthlessIf they were indeed worthless, people would not be pursuing them as much as they do. So, perhaps you are mistaken. Or you misunderstand where their worth lies.

If they were worthless they'd end up like all those items that are somehow placed on TP for less than vendor cost causing you to be unable to sell them. :<

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:The implication there is a 'shortage' of MC's is rather nonsensical. There CAN'T be a shortage of items you get for FREE over time. Maybe you don't get as many as you want when you want them ... but that certainly is not honest to say that's a 'shortage'.

When the demand exceeds the supply, that is a shortage.

Not getting as many as you want when you want them is literally the definition of a shortage.

Neither of these things are the definition of shortage. MC are available, on the TP at market prices OR over time, for FREE if you need them. Even if those options don't fulfill your own self-defined criteria for reasonable access to MC's, that's certainly no reason to claim we have a shortage to justify the idea Anet needs to appease people with more access to MC's.

No 're-defining' of established language can hid the fact that every one of these MC threads is simply a complaint about the price of MC's in a fair market by people who aren't patient enough to collect them via login rewards or content that gives them as rewards.

Shortage: noun, a situation in which there is less of something than people want or need

Literally the definition. In the dictionary. I’m redefining nothing.

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@Cleopatra.4068 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:The implication there is a 'shortage' of MC's is rather nonsensical. There CAN'T be a shortage of items you get for FREE over time. Maybe you don't get as many as you want when you want them ... but that certainly is not honest to say that's a 'shortage'.

When the demand exceeds the supply, that is a shortage.

Not getting as many as you want when you want them is literally the definition of a shortage.

Neither of these things are the definition of shortage. MC are available, on the TP at market prices OR over time, for FREE if you need them. Even if those options don't fulfill your own self-defined criteria for reasonable access to MC's, that's certainly no reason to claim we have a shortage to justify the idea Anet needs to appease people with more access to MC's.

No 're-defining' of established language can hid the fact that every one of these MC threads is simply a complaint about the price of MC's in a fair market by people who aren't patient enough to collect them via login rewards or content that gives them as rewards.

Shortage: noun, a situation in which there is less of something than people want or need

Literally the definition. In the dictionary. I’m redefining nothing.

OK ... and there isn't less MC's that people want or need .. you just have to get them by doing the things that already exist to obtain them. There literally CAN'T be a shortage of something that is readily available for anyone to purchase from a market at market value.

I mean, what even makes you think the situation with MC's it's not intentional or favourable to how the game works in the first place? Do you believe that pulling a definition of shortage from a dictionary is a compelling argument for changing the game? I don't think it is. I think what IS compelling is the fact that the things that need to be in the game so people can get MC's ARE ALREADY in the game.

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The "grey market" is chalk full of posts where people are trying to buy as many stacks of MC as they can. I can only assume this is fueling any "shortage" people are talking about and it's hard to give a good guess as to why this is happening.

My best guess is that people could be stocking up on coins for the release of the next expansion, either for use or to put back onto the market at a higher price (surely there will be increased demand once EoD drops). This is purely speculation though so take it with a grain of salt.

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@Cleopatra.4068 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:The implication there is a 'shortage' of MC's is rather nonsensical. There CAN'T be a shortage of items you get for FREE over time. Maybe you don't get as many as you want when you want them ... but that certainly is not honest to say that's a 'shortage'.

When the demand exceeds the supply, that is a shortage.

Not getting as many as you want when you want them is literally the definition of a shortage.

Neither of these things are the definition of shortage. MC are available, on the TP at market prices OR over time, for FREE if you need them. Even if those options don't fulfill your own self-defined criteria for reasonable access to MC's, that's certainly no reason to claim we have a shortage to justify the idea Anet needs to appease people with more access to MC's.

No 're-defining' of established language can hid the fact that every one of these MC threads is simply a complaint about the price of MC's in a fair market by people who aren't patient enough to collect them via login rewards or content that gives them as rewards.

Shortage: noun, a situation in which there is less of something than people want or need

Literally the definition. In the dictionary. I’m redefining nothing.

And yet the TP isn't running out of mystic coins...

The issue isn't the definition but your incorrect usage of the term.

https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/146202/economics/shortages/

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@Obtena.7952 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:If what is 'scarce' depends on the individual's rate of consumption, that's not a problem Anet needs to solve to begin with. No argument based on the point of 'subjective scarcity' will be a compelling reason to make certain materials more widely available. If you can't get enough MC's in the timeframe you want them with the methods available, that's not a game problem.
You
are the one trying to base the scarcity around individual availability, and not a general one.

No, that's not true because I'm not making ANY point based on scarcity either way so ...Fair enough, i misread. It wasn't you, it was someone else.

One person being able to buy enough MCs for their need is (unlike what you claimed earlier) not a sign that there's no scarcity. Scarcity is when the overall demand is greater than supply (and when an increase in demand cannot be met with increase in supply, because there's some sort of limit on that) - and that's what is happening with MCs. The price keeps going up, because for years the supply cannot catch up with demand.

OK ... it doesn't matter what your definition of scarcity is because something being scarce that we have multiple ways to obtain means scarcity isn't a problem.Sure, scarcity may not be a problem
to some people
, but it doesn't make it disappear. Like we already agreed upon, "subjective scarcity" arguments are worthless - and if they are worthless, they are so in
both
directions.

I get it ... try to show MC's are "scarce", and hope Anet jumps in with a 'Doric Lake' solution to MC's .. RIGHT? Unfortunately, that approach doesn't make sense because I'm pretty sure Anet didn't forget they literally give MC's away for free to everyone.Well, them giving away MCs "for free" to everyone did not prevent them from introducing quite a number of other sources for them during the years. So, obviously, they already felt there
was
some problem with supply when they were doing that. And yet, even after that, the price keeps going up. Which means supply
still
didn't catch up with demand.
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@Doggie.3184 said:

@WindBlade.8749 said:Yea and now legendary are worthlessIf they were indeed worthless, people would not be pursuing them as much as they do. So, perhaps you are mistaken. Or you misunderstand where their worth lies.

If they were worthless they'd end up like all those items that are somehow placed on TP for less than vendor cost causing you to be unable to sell them. :<Indeed. But apparently something worth over 1000g is still considered worthless by some people.

@ugrakarma.9416 said:MC part of legendary is 600g~700g of the total cost of 2500g~3000g... if u farmed 2000g why is more 600g so a big problem?I remember the time when people complained that making legendaries straight out buyable (or even buyable to the large degree) makes them less legendary. Now, apparently, it's the very price tag that makes them worth that name. How the times have changed.

Also, if i think that MC price is a problem, why should i think about aggravating that problem even more by feeding the sellers?

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