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The damage multiplier in WvW is broken


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@Junkpile.7439 said:It's funny how i one hit some players, but can't even tickle players in blob.

Ahh, and there's the big issue.It's not any one support class causing a huge problem, it's the sheer amount of synergy. How to allow a player to cut through all that and not obliterate a solo whos half afk expecting 5 seconds warning he's in danger?

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@"Arheundel.6451" said:

there is no reason soulbeast and deadeye should be hitting with +100% damage modifiers from +1500 range, case closed

If you still die to oneshot meme builds , you have to improve....because that type of builds is easy to counter and it's here to stay

i didn't say anything about one shot meme builds, i'm talking about the coefficients themselves which has no bearing on what gear the player is using. but yeah lets talk about risk vs reward and how some one shot "meme builds" aren't meme at all.

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:

there is no reason soulbeast and deadeye should be hitting with +100% damage modifiers from +1500 range, case closed

If you still die to oneshot meme builds , you have to improve....because that type of builds is easy to counter and it's here to stay

i didn't say anything about one shot meme builds, i'm talking about the coefficients themselves which has no bearing on what gear the player is using. but yeah lets talk about risk vs reward and how some one shot "meme builds" aren't meme at all.

1) You can't complain about dmg coefficients on ranger while using some bruiser spec because ranger has as many dmg coefficients as everybody else when not using one shot builds aka : running sb+ws+x in that case you have max 22% dmg modifier where a reaper bruiser, for example, can have with Spite-soul reaping a whopping 50% dmg modifier without any utility investment

2) Ranger has to use sic'em and MM to reach burst one shot level and jn that case you run sb+MM...either traitline left to pick will offers either sustain or condi removal and the again against decent players, they'd dodge the 1s you start RF on them, so now you must use 60s CD elite + zephyr's quickness....basically a single burst available every 30s+ and a burst which can be easily negated by simple LoS, block or..dodge.

Risk vs reward?.... this kind of builds doesn't work against average players , simple as that

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imagine teching against roamers... drop dmg, they die. usually they try to run or gank either way. smallscale sheer force is horribly unbalanced in wvw.

@"CelestialCat.6240" the only real problem is, that outside of the broken few, every damage got hit very hard in early 2020. this basically messed up any natural balance which the classes did have. most of the classes cannot defend against the cancersets anymore. so your "balance" has only destroyed the actual balancing after all.

it was a unprecise nerf to cc-attacks, but there was not a single buff. useless elites have still 240 seconds cooldown lmfao. as u correctly noticed, attack speed did affect dmg "balancing" at all. just plainly bad work, :-1:

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

there is no reason soulbeast and deadeye should be hitting with +100% damage modifiers from +1500 range, case closed

If you still die to oneshot meme builds , you have to improve....because that type of builds is easy to counter and it's here to stay

i didn't say anything about one shot meme builds, i'm talking about the coefficients themselves which has no bearing on what gear the player is using. but yeah lets talk about risk vs reward and how some one shot "meme builds" aren't meme at all.

1) You can't complain about dmg coefficients on ranger while using some bruiser spec because ranger has as many dmg coefficients as everybody else when not using one shot builds aka : running sb+ws+x in that case you have max 22% dmg modifier where a reaper bruiser, for example, can have with Spite-soul reaping a whopping 50% dmg modifier without any utility investment

2) Ranger has to use sic'em and MM to reach burst one shot level and jn that case you run sb+MM...either traitline left to pick will offers either sustain or condi removal and the again against decent players,
they'd dodge the 1s you start RF on them
, so now you must use
60s CD elite
+ zephyr's quickness....basically a single burst available every 30s+ and a burst which can be easily negated by simple LoS, block or..dodge.

Risk vs reward?.... this kind of builds doesn't work against average players , simple as that

so yeah, deadeye isn't even worth talking about. one shot potential on a ranged build with perma cripple and teleports for escapes. neither is soulbeast, since one auto attack can take half or more of someones health. big lol, this is well documented and still possible. go ahead and live in denial its ok.

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@Stand The Wall.6987 said:

there is no reason soulbeast and deadeye should be hitting with +100% damage modifiers from +1500 range, case closed

If you still die to oneshot meme builds , you have to improve....because that type of builds is easy to counter and it's here to stay

i didn't say anything about one shot meme builds, i'm talking about the coefficients themselves which has no bearing on what gear the player is using. but yeah lets talk about risk vs reward and how some one shot "meme builds" aren't meme at all.

1) You can't complain about dmg coefficients on ranger while using some bruiser spec because ranger has as many dmg coefficients as everybody else when not using one shot builds aka : running sb+ws+x in that case you have max 22% dmg modifier where a reaper bruiser, for example, can have with Spite-soul reaping a whopping 50% dmg modifier without any utility investment

2) Ranger has to use sic'em and MM to reach burst one shot level and jn that case you run sb+MM...either traitline left to pick will offers either sustain or condi removal and the again against decent players,
they'd dodge the 1s you start RF on them
, so now you must use
60s CD elite
+ zephyr's quickness....basically a single burst available every 30s+ and a burst which can be easily negated by simple LoS, block or..dodge.

Risk vs reward?.... this kind of builds doesn't work against average players , simple as that

so yeah, deadeye isn't even worth talking about. one shot potential on a ranged build with perma cripple and teleports for escapes. neither is soulbeast, since one auto attack can take half or more of someones health. big lol, this is well documented and still possible. go ahead and live in denial its ok.

Soulbeast can take half health on a single auto attack? Go on.....

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@Arheundel.6451 said:1) You can't complain about dmg coefficients on ranger while using some bruiser spec because ranger has as many dmg coefficients as everybody else when not using one shot builds aka : running sb+ws+x in that case you have max 22% dmg modifier where a reaper bruiser, for example, can have with Spite-soul reaping a whopping 50% dmg modifier without any utility investment

Again comparing apples and oranges...

Let's just ignore that MM+BM+SB have an equivalent amount of damage modifiers than Spite+SR+Reaper for the exact same investment (And it's also true for it's survivability). Thought, it's true that the ranger can push it's damage coefficients even further throught the use of utilities.

I mean, with or without investment the reaper can reach 50% while the soulbeast have the ability to temporarily reach way higher, so what now? First you dig out high coefficient on necromancers channeled skills that you compare to single hit skills coefficients then compare the necromancer's highest damage coefficient trait comp to a ranger's trait comp crippled by a defensive traitline. Come on, the 22% increased damage is on SB alone, Reaper alone stand at 20% increased damage. You could get 25% more increased damage just with marksmanship and staying at >600 range. 2 traitlines you are at 47%. Add beastmastery at melee range with GS and you stand at 52%, I'm not even sure whether or not you get loud whistle bonus when merged, which would put you at a whopping 62% damage increased coefficient without skill investment.

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@"Arheundel.6451" said:1) You can't complain about dmg coefficients on ranger while using some bruiser spec because ranger has as many dmg coefficients as everybody else when not using one shot builds aka : running sb+ws+x in that case you have max 22% dmg modifier where a reaper bruiser, for example, can have with Spite-soul reaping a whopping 50% dmg modifier without any utility investment

Again comparing apples and oranges...

Let's just ignore that MM+BM+SB have an equivalent amount of damage modifiers than Spite+SR+Reaper for the exact same investment (And it's also true for it's survivability). Thought, it's true that the ranger can push it's damage coefficients even further throught the use of utilities.

I mean, with or without investment the reaper can reach 50% while the soulbeast have the ability to temporarily reach way higher, so what now? First you dig out high coefficient on necromancers channeled skills that you compare to single hit skills coefficients then compare the necromancer's highest damage coefficient trait comp to a ranger's trait comp crippled by a defensive traitline. Come on, the 22% increased damage is on SB alone, Reaper alone stand at 20% increased damage. You could get 25% more increased damage just with marksmanship and staying at >600 range. 2 traitlines you are at 47%. Add beastmastery at melee range with GS and you stand at 52%, I'm not even sure whether or not you get
loud whistle
bonus when merged, which would put you at a whopping 62% damage increased coefficient without skill investment.

You get loud whistle's bonus.

For the list of perks for going into Beast Mode check the wiki:https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Beastmode

Note that the stat gains that would go to you while in Beast Mode are Halved in PvP and WvW.

This is one of the reasons I advocated for negative stat modifiers on the pet archetypes rather than being locked out of pet swap.

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I was correct on the damage being broken in WvW. ArenaNet devs have done a secret patch to fix the damage from being the same as PvE to being the nerfed PvP and WvW settings. I don't have to worry about some lucky person hitting me for 5,000 to 20,000 damage. I even clocked my Reaper's Gravedigger at 17,157 damage in a single hit during this time.

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@Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

@"Dadnir.5038" said:Again comparing apples and oranges...

Let's just ignore that MM+BM+SB have an equivalent amount of damage modifiers than Spite+SR+Reaper for the exact same investment (And it's also true for it's survivability). Thought, it's true that the ranger can push it's damage coefficients even further throught the use of utilities.

I mean, with or without investment the reaper can reach 50% while the soulbeast have the ability to temporarily reach way higher, so what now? First you dig out high coefficient on necromancers channeled skills that you compare to single hit skills coefficients then compare the necromancer's highest damage coefficient trait comp to a ranger's trait comp crippled by a defensive traitline. Come on, the 22% increased damage is on SB alone, Reaper alone stand at 20% increased damage. You could get 25% more increased damage just with marksmanship and staying at >600 range. 2 traitlines you are at 47%. Add beastmastery at melee range with GS and you stand at 52%, I'm not even sure whether or not you get
loud whistle
bonus when merged, which would put you at a whopping 62% damage increased coefficient without skill investment.

You get loud whistle's bonus.

For the list of perks for going into Beast Mode check the wiki:

Note that the stat gains that would go to you while in Beast Mode are Halved in PvP and WvW.

This is one of the reasons I advocated for negative stat modifiers on the pet archetypes rather than being locked out of pet swap.

Thank's for the info.

I didn't take into account the stat gains thought, at this point of my argumentation it would have just been another pebble added to the mountain.

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@"CelestialCat.6240" said:I was correct on the damage being broken in WvW. ArenaNet devs have done a secret patch to fix the damage from being the same as PvE to being the nerfed PvP and WvW settings. I don't have to worry about some lucky person hitting me for 5,000 to 20,000 damage. I even clocked my Reaper's Gravedigger at 17,157 damage in a single hit during this time.

Hey, wait a minute. If it was a "secret" patch, how do you know about it?

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@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:1) You can't complain about dmg coefficients on ranger while using some bruiser spec because ranger has as many dmg coefficients as everybody else when not using one shot builds aka : running sb+ws+x in that case you have max 22% dmg modifier where a reaper bruiser, for example, can have with Spite-soul reaping a whopping 50% dmg modifier without any utility investment

Again comparing apples and oranges...

Let's just ignore that MM+BM+SB have an equivalent amount of damage modifiers than Spite+SR+Reaper for the exact same investment (And it's also true for it's survivability). Thought, it's true that the ranger can push it's damage coefficients even further throught the use of utilities.

I mean, with or without investment the reaper can reach 50% while the soulbeast have the ability to temporarily reach way higher, so what now? First you dig out high coefficient on necromancers channeled skills that you compare to single hit skills coefficients then compare the necromancer's highest damage coefficient trait comp to a ranger's trait comp crippled by a defensive traitline. Come on, the 22% increased damage is on SB alone, Reaper alone stand at 20% increased damage. You could get 25% more increased damage just with marksmanship and staying at >600 range. 2 traitlines you are at 47%. Add beastmastery at melee range with GS and you stand at 52%, I'm not even sure whether or not you get
loud whistle
bonus when merged, which would put you at a whopping 62% damage increased coefficient without skill investment.

I could try to point out the fallacies of the ranger build you describe but...that won't solve anything as you made up your mind so let's change the side. I don't see the grievance here, the builds complained here are meme status builds. We can keep nerfing all you guys want but in the end...nerfs to other professions can help you only up to a certain point, a point where players stop relying on gimmicks and simply master the profession, and when that happens even a couple of dozen nerfs won't change the pre-determined result of a fight.

About 90% of my encounters in WvW are against individuals who don't dodge once during the whole fight...no amount of nerfs/buffs will ever change that reality and those who lose today..will lose tomorrow still

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@Arheundel.6451 said:

@Arheundel.6451 said:1) You can't complain about dmg coefficients on ranger while using some bruiser spec because ranger has as many dmg coefficients as everybody else when not using one shot builds aka : running sb+ws+x in that case you have max 22% dmg modifier where a reaper bruiser, for example, can have with Spite-soul reaping a whopping 50% dmg modifier without any utility investment

Again comparing apples and oranges...

Let's just ignore that MM+BM+SB have an equivalent amount of damage modifiers than Spite+SR+Reaper for the exact same investment (And it's also true for it's survivability). Thought, it's true that the ranger can push it's damage coefficients even further throught the use of utilities.

I mean, with or without investment the reaper can reach 50% while the soulbeast have the ability to temporarily reach way higher, so what now? First you dig out high coefficient on necromancers channeled skills that you compare to single hit skills coefficients then compare the necromancer's highest damage coefficient trait comp to a ranger's trait comp crippled by a defensive traitline. Come on, the 22% increased damage is on SB alone, Reaper alone stand at 20% increased damage. You could get 25% more increased damage just with marksmanship and staying at >600 range. 2 traitlines you are at 47%. Add beastmastery at melee range with GS and you stand at 52%, I'm not even sure whether or not you get
loud whistle
bonus when merged, which would put you at a whopping 62% damage increased coefficient without skill investment.

I could try to point out the fallacies of the ranger build you describe but...that won't solve anything as you made up your mind so let's change the side. I don't see the grievance here, the builds complained here are meme status builds. We can keep nerfing all you guys want but in the end...nerfs to other professions can help you only up to a certain point, a point where players stop relying on gimmicks and simply master the profession, and when that happens even a couple of dozen nerfs won't change the pre-determined result of a fight.

About 90% of my encounters in WvW
are against individuals who don't dodge once during the whole fight...no amount of nerfs/buffs will ever change that reality and those who lose today..will lose tomorrow still

You're pointing out at numbers and I'm just showing you that your numbers show nothing significative, that if you were to compare comparable things they are just plainly irrelevant.

You say that a spite+soul reaping+reaper have 50% damage modifier while sb+ws+any have 22% max damage modifier. How can you find any fallacie in me saying that just taking any one of BM, MM and Skirmishing alongside SB can easily allow you to reach near 50% damage modifier without spending any utility? Do I invent traits?

I am not asking for nerf, I'm asking you to stop comparing apples and oranges. To just accept that if the sb want to have as much damage modifier (if not more) than a reaper, it's easily achievable. To accept that a high coefficient on a necromancer channeled skill isn't some kind of injustice because any channeled skill on any other profession will have similarly high coefficient due to how channeled skills coefficients are listed.

You talk about mastering profession yet you try to make the necromancer bigger than other professions through arguable artifices. To what end exactly? Objectively, the necromancer's damage multipliers aren't any different to what you find on other professions (I can even be a jerk and say that compared to soulbeast's potential in term of damage multipliers, reaper's is pretty low in fact. Not saying that it's a balance issue, just stating plain fact).

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@"gebrechen.5643" said:Am I the only one who thinks it's funny that the op started a legitimate discussion about rangers damage modifiers (which are way too good) and suddenly all the ranger players start to de-rail the discussion "BUT NECRO IS OP TOO"?

Yeah, but they think thieves using Shadowstep and Shadow Return is a macro so their credibility is somewhat questionable.

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  • 1 year later...

"or pop shroud and tank five plus players at once while dealing out 5,000 damage per hi"

 

I assume he's talking about the 'EOD' Necro or Power Necro because a Condi Necro isn't toing to tank anybody.  I don't see that happening against five players with any build using shroud because of all the "CC."

 

WvW is 95% "CC" now and when multiple players attack you, that's the first thing they all do, is make sure you can't do anything from "CC."  The developers don't care; their main job is to keep the servers buzzing and as long as that's going on, they couldn't care less about how bad their development is.  Damage is too high in a lot of areas, like ranged DPS but that's just a bad concept to begin with.

 

What makes it all even worst, are players on your team side that run and cower a lot.  It's funny the way they're afraid of being 'downed' because they don't realize, the bravest, toughest players are the ones being downed all the time.  It's beause they not only go foward and put up a fight, other players who played against them or with them know this and because of that, good players will be singled out amongst a Zerg and dealt with first.

 

I don't know how many times an entire Zerg ignored a handful of players just to 'whole zerg' attack me because of all the "CC" and conditions I apply and then go back to the handful of teammates that were standing around and take them out.  I've had Zergs dance around  getting close to my Zergmates, just so they can do a pull on me first, then once I'm out of the way, they attack my Zergmates.  That's strategy....  Get rid of the boon corrupting, condition making, skill interrupting Necro first and make downing the other Zergers easier.  Not a lot of players are still running Condi Necro, so having one in a Zerg with a meta build now is rare.

 

I can't put it in words "tho"...when I'm being ganged up on and with sustains high and downing me taking forever....  The whole time I'm watching a dozen teammates just standing there and I'm thinking, "What are they doing!?  I have the attention of the enemy players, just move in and take them out!" but no one budges.  They bounce around like "chicken wuss" afraid to "throw down."  You don't die in real life just because you fall in the game....  "Geezus Kryst."

 

Those are the players you DO NOT want on your side in WvW because they'll just get you killed over and over and over again.

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, Horace.3184 said:

"or pop shroud and tank five plus players at once while dealing out 5,000 damage per hi"

 

I assume he's talking about the 'EOD' Necro or Power Necro because a Condi Necro isn't toing to tank anybody.  I don't see that happening against five players with any build using shroud because of all the "CC."

 

WvW is 95% "CC" now and when multiple players attack you, that's the first thing they all do, is make sure you can't do anything from "CC."  The developers don't care; their main job is to keep the servers buzzing and as long as that's going on, they couldn't care less about how bad their development is.  Damage is too high in a lot of areas, like ranged DPS but that's just a bad concept to begin with.

 

What makes it all even worst, are players on your team side that run and cower a lot.  It's funny the way they're afraid of being 'downed' because they don't realize, the bravest, toughest players are the ones being downed all the time.  It's beause they not only go foward and put up a fight, other players who played against them or with them know this and because of that, good players will be singled out amongst a Zerg and dealt with first.

 

I don't know how many times an entire Zerg ignored a handful of players just to 'whole zerg' attack me because of all the "CC" and conditions I apply and then go back to the handful of teammates that were standing around and take them out.  I've had Zergs dance around  getting close to my Zergmates, just so they can do a pull on me first, then once I'm out of the way, they attack my Zergmates.  That's strategy....  Get rid of the boon corrupting, condition making, skill interrupting Necro first and make downing the other Zergers easier.  Not a lot of players are still running Condi Necro, so having one in a Zerg with a meta build now is rare.

 

I can't put it in words "tho"...when I'm being ganged up on and with sustains high and downing me taking forever....  The whole time I'm watching a dozen teammates just standing there and I'm thinking, "What are they doing!?  I have the attention of the enemy players, just move in and take them out!" but no one budges.  They bounce around like "chicken wuss" afraid to "throw down."  You don't die in real life just because you fall in the game....  "Geezus Kryst."

 

Those are the players you DO NOT want on your side in WvW because they'll just get you killed over and over and over again.

 

 

 

Could you stop to necro posts? 

Making your own isnt that hard. 

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