Soulbeast, the best WvW class all around (even in zergs)

[Charall.4710]

So I wanted to mention something here a sec, I feel like soulbeast is seriously the most understated class in all of gw2. It has so much utility that it can do pretty much everything every other class can do, legit the only thing it cant do is convert condies to boons.

Soulbeast Stances:Bear Stance: Heal yourself and your pet. Lose conditions while in this stance, healing for each condition lost.Dolyak Stance: Enter a defensive stance and remove conditions that impede movement. Prevent application of such conditions while in this stance.Griffon Stance: Evade and gain endurance. Your endurance recovery is greatly improved. You gain might and superspeed when you evade attacks.Moa Stance: Gain boons. Increase the duration of boons you grant while in this stance.Vulture Stance: While in this stance, striking a foe inflicts poison and grants you might.One Wolf Pack Stance: Your successful attacks will trigger a second strike while in this stance.

See that may come across as "Soulbeasts are great for roaming and thats it" but let me kinda show you where that mentality went wrong:Trait Leader of the Pack: Stance skills gain increased duration on you and grant their effects to nearby allies for a reduced duration.Number of Allied Targets: 5Personal Duration: 150%Allied Duration: 50%Radius: 360

This brings soulbeast something BIG for WvW, something seriously useful in zerg fights, this trait alone can carry a party with stances given the right gear/runes/ect. Much like every other class, each one has its use and this one is the single most understated class in WvW.

Please start considering how the game was meant to be played, every class has a spot in every bit of content anywhere. Just gotta be creative.

[Dawdler.8521]

Yeah because nobody ever plays poor weak soulbeast anywhere today.

[mistsim.2748]

Bear and Dolyak stances are fantastic. For you. Other stances are insignificant. Vulture is good in duels.

I've been enjoying immob Soulbeast a lot. Clouding and zerging, but they seem great in organised fights too.

SB and Druid are both top tier for skirmishing.

Been messing around with the immob Minstrel druid for a few days for just zerging, and it seems very impactful so far.

[ArchonWing.9480]

The thing is that one source of stability is simply not good enough due to boonrips you'll never replace a firebrand that has multiple stability sources and cleanses are just simply better handed out by fb/scrapper/tempests. Stability does nothing for people that are already stunned, and FB has a fairly spammable elite that breaks them. You can somewhat emulate this with "Protect Me"

That being said, Dolyak's stance's ability to negate soft CC should be looked at, however, do note LOTP has only half duration for its allies.

What is pretty interesting that I think is overlooked is One Wolf Pack. It's a unique buff that could seriously add on some burst damage. I guess people are hung up on Entangle. Maybe combine it with the Warhorn?

Also get a pet with prelude lash.

[Charall.4710]

@ArchonWing.9480 said:What is pretty interesting that I think is overlooked is One Wolf Pack. It's a unique buff that could seriously add on some burst damage. I guess people are hung up on Entangle.

Entangle has its uses but in zerg fights we're just gonna cleans/convert it, so one wolf pack is actually perfect instead as that little bit of damage multiplied by an entire party is kinda broken ngl

[ArchonWing.9480]

@Dravvi.3146 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:What is pretty interesting that I think is overlooked is One Wolf Pack. It's a unique buff that could seriously add on some burst damage. I guess people are hung up on Entangle.

Entangle has its uses but in zerg fights we're just gonna cleans/convert it, so one wolf pack is actually perfect instead as that little bit of damage multiplied by an entire party is kinda broken ngl

Well cleanses alone will not solve entangle because it reapplies pretty fast unless they dodge out of it. That's why it's popular. Though immob does convert to resistance which would push me to OWP....

[Charall.4710]

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@Dravvi.3146 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:What is pretty interesting that I think is overlooked is One Wolf Pack. It's a unique buff that could seriously add on some burst damage. I guess people are hung up on Entangle.

Entangle has its uses but in zerg fights we're just gonna cleans/convert it, so one wolf pack is actually perfect instead as that little bit of damage multiplied by an entire party is kinda broken ngl

Well cleanses alone will not solve entangle because it reapplies pretty fast unless they dodge out of it. That's why it's popular. Though immob does convert to resistance which would push me to OWP....

ngl I have done some looking into Dolyak Stance and One Wolf Pack, this is why when I tag up I explicitly invite Soulbeasts as well to my zergs. (not only cause I used to main one) but I understand what use cases each of their stances have and often times win fights when having more of them in my parties using stance builds. Against Desolation that is currently not a easy task, but since they are so underused? It's amazing the difference it can make.

[Zyreva.1078]

OWP is great for single target burst, but in grp vs grp fights aoe dmg is more valuable and the icd prevents it from being good vs multiple players. The short duration on allies also means, it requires good coordination and timing to have any sort of value. Press it at the wrong moment and that's 60s cd wasted. The only stance that is really good to share is dolyak stance, occasionally also bear stance. Other stances are too niche and usually not worth running in a grp setting.Still, slb is not as bad in grps as many think. Besides dolyak stance it also has potential for pretty good aoe burst and decent cc/immob. Not a "must have" pick by any means, but perfectly viable.

[mistsim.2748]

@Dravvi.3146 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:

@Dravvi.3146 said:

@ArchonWing.9480 said:What is pretty interesting that I think is overlooked is One Wolf Pack. It's a unique buff that could seriously add on some burst damage. I guess people are hung up on Entangle.

Entangle has its uses but in zerg fights we're just gonna cleans/convert it, so one wolf pack is actually perfect instead as that little bit of damage multiplied by an entire party is kinda broken ngl

Well cleanses alone will not solve entangle because it reapplies pretty fast unless they dodge out of it. That's why it's popular. Though immob does convert to resistance which would push me to OWP....

ngl I have done some looking into Dolyak Stance and One Wolf Pack, this is why when I tag up I explicitly invite Soulbeasts as well to my zergs. (not only cause I used to main one) but I understand what use cases each of their stances have and often times win fights when having more of them in my parties using stance builds. Against Desolation that is currently not a easy task, but since they are so underused? It's amazing the difference it can make.

Sounds good. Immob Soulbeast has enough immob with signet, Muddy Terrain, and Prelude suck. OWP + Dolyak + Bear are pretty substantial, albeit short, buffs for the squad.

[mistsim.2748]

@"UmbraNoctis.1907" said:OWP is great for single target burst, but in grp vs grp fights aoe dmg is more valuable and the icd prevents it from being good vs multiple players. The short duration on allies also means, it requires good coordination and timing to have any sort of value. Press it at the wrong moment and that's 60s cd wasted. The only stance that is really good to share is dolyak stance, occasionally also bear stance. Other stances are too niche and usually not worth running in a grp setting.Still, slb is not as bad in grps as many think. Besides dolyak stance it also has potential for pretty good aoe burst and decent cc/immob. Not a "must have" pick by any means, but perfectly viable.

If I catch a few backliners with Prelude Lash, Whirling Defense with quickness instadowns 3-4 players. it requires some zerg surfing knowledge, but it's pretty high impact if timed well.

[Infusion.7149]

Multiple things wrong with this claim:

• Immob soulbeast with stanceshare already is a thing , so it isn't "understated"
• Most random rangers aren't even going to be on tag at all rendering Leader of the Pack useless
• Most random rangers are either running full tank soulbeast with signet of the hunt (semi-useless on soulbeasts) and signet of renewal or full berserker gear meant for PVE
• The duration for allies isn't that long
• The cooldown is higher than defensive cooldowns for One Wolf Pack
• No boon rips
• the only weapons remotely useful are sword , offhand axe, and greatsword ; the rest are projectile (longbow, axe mainhand) , condi (shortbow , torch), or hit 1-2 targets (dagger mainhand and offhand , warhorn)

So no, it's not a soulbeast issue it's a player issue.

[shortcake.8659]

The only stance that's overly worthwhile to share is dolyak. It's an all around insanely powerful stance. The problem is that little allied duration thing. They get 50% of the BASE stance duration, which is, for the useful ones, 2 to 3 seconds. OWP can be.. okay. Bear stance share is largely irrelevant due to scrappers.

Just go full pew pew. It's way more fun anyway.

[Zyreva.1078]

@mistsim.2748 said:

@"UmbraNoctis.1907" said:OWP is great for single target burst, but in grp vs grp fights aoe dmg is more valuable and the icd prevents it from being good vs multiple players. The short duration on allies also means, it requires good coordination and timing to have any sort of value. Press it at the wrong moment and that's 60s cd wasted. The only stance that is really good to share is dolyak stance, occasionally also bear stance. Other stances are too niche and usually not worth running in a grp setting.Still, slb is not as bad in grps as many think. Besides dolyak stance it also has potential for pretty good aoe burst and decent cc/immob. Not a "must have" pick by any means, but perfectly viable.

If I catch a few backliners with Prelude Lash, Whirling Defense with quickness instadowns 3-4 players. it requires some zerg surfing knowledge, but it's pretty high impact if timed well.

Oh, absolutely. But you don't need OWP for that and if you don't have 25 might from others already, SotP might be more dmg anyway and the stab it grants means, you don't have to use dolyak stance preventively and can save it for defensive needs. So that tends to be my go to ult vs grps/zergs, unless running with a very support/boon heavy grp.Entangle can be high value vs smaller and uncoordinated grps, but vs zergs it tends to get cleansed and cleaved instantly, unless you can catch some stragglers, but those tend to be easy kills anyway.

[mistsim.2748]

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

@mistsim.2748 said:

@UmbraNoctis.1907 said:OWP is great for single target burst, but in grp vs grp fights aoe dmg is more valuable and the icd prevents it from being good vs multiple players. The short duration on allies also means, it requires good coordination and timing to have any sort of value. Press it at the wrong moment and that's 60s cd wasted. The only stance that is really good to share is dolyak stance, occasionally also bear stance. Other stances are too niche and usually not worth running in a grp setting.Still, slb is not as bad in grps as many think. Besides dolyak stance it also has potential for pretty good aoe burst and decent cc/immob. Not a "must have" pick by any means, but perfectly viable.

If I catch a few backliners with Prelude Lash, Whirling Defense with quickness instadowns 3-4 players. it requires some zerg surfing knowledge, but it's pretty high impact if timed well.

Oh, absolutely. But you don't need OWP for that and if you don't have 25 might from others already, SotP might be more dmg anyway and the stab it grants means, you don't have to use dolyak stance preventively and can save it for defensive needs. So that tends to be my go to ult vs grps/zergs, unless running with a very support/boon heavy grp.Entangle can be high value vs smaller and uncoordinated grps, but vs zergs it tends to get cleansed and cleaved instantly, unless you can catch some stragglers, but those tend to be easy kills anyway.

yeah true. Switching out Entangle for SoTP is the way to go imo, if youre not in an organized squad with boons.

[Shroud.2307]

For solo roaming, I think it is one of the only things that competes with Thief in sheer fight versatility.What I mean by that is that although both will have losing match ups, as every class does, both of them have tools to avoid being hard countered by basically everything. A losing match up will only ever be a soft counter.

Soulbeast would take the lead in small scale fights of 10 - 15's though, and Thief would fall out of favor.

Large scale, no. It's great for sniping singles and it can absolutely be beneficial to have assuming it's played right, but trying to play it as a support, or really anything other than glassy Longbow, isn't going to bring anything of value.Lots of classes have builds that can fill the role of meta build classes, but they'll always be a worse version, hence why they aren't meta. Example being a Druid support- Scrapper does everything it does better, but Druid can fill the role of Scrapper with similar tools, but worse application. A support Soulbeast would be in the same category. Sure, it could bring support or a different form of DPS apart from Longbow, but it's not going to be worth taking. It's better to use it how it excels and where it provides something other classes cannot, which in this case is long range single target burst.

I don't think Soulbeast is the best all around class what so ever. For roaming, yes. Small scale, kind of. Large scale, no.With all the nerfs it has received, and don't get me wrong, most were more than deserved, it is largely being carried by only a few traits and utilities that could very easily neuter the spec if they were to be changed in any significant way. It is absolutely a strong spec with a variety of good builds, but it's clinging to what keeps it neck in neck with Thief for dear life.

[hunkamania.7561]

There's a fantastic soulbeast build that aint too bad for wvw zerg play but let's be real most rangers are not playing that.. They are playing their pew pew build

[Junkpile.7439]

You just use that smokescale skill against some target inside enemy blob, wordly impact after that ends, double maul of something, that axe spinning skill and you have downed half of zerg. B)

[schokelmei.8271]

The whole ranger class needs a serious nerf. Not only it's overbuffed with the high damage modifiers, tank build options, mobility and even access to steahlth but way too easy to master.

[Some Call Me Tim.2319]

I main soulbeast. You guys are on something good if you think it’s a good as all this. Sure I survive pretty well out there.. damage yadayada... but it’s by no means better in groups than engi and firebrand for support, and the other zerg classes are overall better for mass killing etc.

I’m good at what I do according to my team mates, but I have to rofl at the thought of ranger taking place of any of these other zerg classes. When played properly they are easily as op etc

[Some Call Me Tim.2319]

@gebrechen.5643 said:The whole ranger class needs a serious nerf. Not only it's overbuffed with the high damage modifiers, tank build options, mobility and even access to steahlth but way too easy to master.

I laugh at ranger stealth... save my rapid fire etc for the second or two he’s stealthed then pound him into the ground. Stealth is a wasted option on ranger imo. It’s only for chickens that want to try to run away. Give me my slots for killing, not traps for stealth.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

ah yeah... the 2monthly "ranger is good bc i want it to be good"-thread. for largescale it is amongst the worst things anyone can bring, on any specs. that won't change. so maybe, can we not create basically this very thread over and over and over and over again? thanks.

[LetoII.3782]

@Shroud.2307 said:For solo roaming, I think it is one of the only things that competes with Thief in sheer fight versatility.What I mean by that is that although both will have losing match ups, as every class does, both of them have tools to avoid being hard countered by basically everything. A losing match up will only ever be a soft counter.

To put it more thematically: High initiative.Thief, ranger and engi all have initiative.Clothies and heavies have fairly strong strengths of their own.

[scerevisiae.1972]

• Immob soulbeast with stanceshare already is a thing , so it isn't "understated"

This. Unfortunately, rangers being bad in zerg is kind of a meme that continues to be propagated by bad/clueless players (ie: 75% of current WVW players).

immobeast aoe pull/immob + axe5 combo is the most OP bomb combo for zerg play in the entire game.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Why would anyone run immobeast when Druid exists? Also how is anyone getting mass immob'd in a zerg when they should have cleanse out the roof? On my immob builds it can be effective on a group of say 8 or less that isn't stacking, but if you get a whole zerg (20+) it drops to pretty much zero usefulness unless picking off random off tag players.

Stance share is awful, which is why if you try it you will get run over by an actual zerg comp of firebrands, scrappers, etc. Also none of the stances are useful outside Dolyak; Bear stance has such a low heal that if you aren't getting condi bombed you might as well not run a heal skill....

[mistsim.2748]

@Gotejjeken.1267 said:Why would anyone run immobeast when Druid exists? Also how is anyone getting mass immob'd in a zerg when they should have cleanse out the roof? On my immob builds it can be effective on a group of say 8 or less that isn't stacking, but if you get a whole zerg (20+) it drops to pretty much zero usefulness unless picking off random off tag players.

Stance share is awful, which is why if you try it you will get run over by an actual zerg comp of firebrands, scrappers, etc. Also none of the stances are useful outside Dolyak; Bear stance has such a low heal that if you aren't getting condi bombed you might as well not run a heal skill....

Both Druid and SB should be specced out according to what they're good at - immobilizing.

The rest depends on what kind of numbers you want to see on your screen. If I feel like being unkillable and seeing green numbers, I'll grab my Minstrel Druid. If I feel like seeing a 10k Crit and a pile of dead backliners at my feet, I'll grab my Marauder SB. Maul + Whirling Defense combo is about 17k on a cloth backliner. More if you're in an organized squad with 25 Might.

When you activate your aoe immobilizes and how effective you are depends on how well you understand ZvZ/GvG combat. Obviously, you don't cast your immobs on the first push when everyone is booned up and spamming cleanses. You do it while the other group is retreating for a regroup, after they've blown their CDs. If you do it right, you will always catch a few backliners...and that's the point. Only rangers can do this.

All I know is good guilds utilize immob Druids or Soulbeasts in zerg fights. Obviously you're not gonna have one in each squad, but there is definitely place for a few per zerg in this meta.