miss arnhem.7840 Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 so is anet ever gonna get rid of the perma thiefs in wvw or too busy making up next excuse not to improve wvw? dont worry people alliance will be soon and it will be great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneWhoSighs.7513 Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 They'll get rid of it the same day they get rid of the last desert borderland. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justine.6351 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 How would you go about getting rid of it without getting rid of thief too? The less complicated the better. The less band aid the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galmac.4680 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 You don't have to get rid of thiefs, just restrict their stealth to perhaps 30s (without being visible for at least one or a few seconds) and then they can't stealth for perhaps 10s, or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 Still in favor of a system where for every second you are in stealth, you cant stealth for a second (debuff that cannot be negated). Adds up over time, doesnt matter if in combat or not. So if a thief want to stealth for a minute, he can... but as soon as he no longer stealth or attack, he cant stealth for a minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galmac.4680 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 @Dawdler.8521 said:Still in favor of a system where for every second you are in stealth, you cant stealth for a second (debuff that cannot be negated). Adds up over time, doesnt matter if in combat or not. So if a thief want to stealth for a minute, he can... but as soon as he no longer stealth or attack, he cant stealth for a minute.Which should be capped to some maximum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiden The Beast.3016 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 It is okey for us theefs as long as we get moar dmg and much more substain when out of stealth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 @Galmac.4680 said:@Dawdler.8521 said:Still in favor of a system where for every second you are in stealth, you cant stealth for a second (debuff that cannot be negated). Adds up over time, doesnt matter if in combat or not. So if a thief want to stealth for a minute, he can... but as soon as he no longer stealth or attack, he cant stealth for a minute.Which should be capped to some maximum!If a thief can stealth for 10 minutes straight, great what a pro dagger leaper. But he then cant stealth for 10 minutes lol. And the debuff would of course remain even if you log out (like food, not like boons).The point is to weigh the time you are in stealth vs the cost. So I would argue no cap for such an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TinkTinkPOOF.9201 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 I would be happy with just using an attack reveals them. Pretty annoying to have a thief, engi, ranger etc open with a burst from stealth and me to predict when it's coming and dodge it or counter it with a block.....Only to have them remain in stealth? This is one of my only complaints about stealth, sorry, this should not be a try burst, fail, never be revealed, reset, wait for CD and try again.It's so ridiculous to see a full rapid fire etc coming out of thin air 1,500+ range away hitting shelter "block, block, block, block" and just standing there waiting for something to actually target and fight. If they use a skill that misses, blinded, blocked etc etc it should still reveal the player. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrollingDemigod.3041 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 @Dawdler.8521 said:@Galmac.4680 said:@Dawdler.8521 said:Still in favor of a system where for every second you are in stealth, you cant stealth for a second (debuff that cannot be negated). Adds up over time, doesnt matter if in combat or not. So if a thief want to stealth for a minute, he can... but as soon as he no longer stealth or attack, he cant stealth for a minute.Which should be capped to some maximum!If a thief can stealth for 10 minutes straight, great what a pro dagger leaper. But he then cant stealth for 10 minutes lol. And the debuff would of course remain even if you log out (like food, not like boons).The point is to weigh the time you are in stealth vs the cost. So I would argue no cap for such an idea.I like the idea, but I would rather have it capped at 10s max, since we have build templates so it's possible that they'd stack 30s+ stealth and then switch to evasive build seconds before engage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneWhoSighs.7513 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:I would be happy with just using an attack reveals them. Pretty annoying to have a thief, engi, ranger etc open with a burst from stealth and me to predict when it's coming and dodge it or counter it with a block.....Only to have them remain in stealth? This is one of my only complaints about stealth, sorry, this should not be a try burst, fail, never be revealed, reset, wait for CD and try again.It's so ridiculous to see a full rapid fire etc coming out of thin air 1,500+ range away hitting shelter "block, block, block, block" and just standing there waiting for something to actually target and fight. If they use a skill that misses, blinded, blocked etc etc it should still reveal the player.Tbh, out of all the things suggested on the thread. This makes the most sense.Attacking should reveal you, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Handin.4032 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 @"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:I would be happy with just using an attack reveals them. Pretty annoying to have a thief, engi, ranger etc open with a burst from stealth and me to predict when it's coming and dodge it or counter it with a block.....Only to have them remain in stealth? This is one of my only complaints about stealth, sorry, this should not be a try burst, fail, never be revealed, reset, wait for CD and try again.It's so ridiculous to see a full rapid fire etc coming out of thin air 1,500+ range away hitting shelter "block, block, block, block" and just standing there waiting for something to actually target and fight. If they use a skill that misses, blinded, blocked etc etc it should still reveal the player.^ This. It's how stealth has worked in every other game I've played. Also, taking damage (or even healing others) doesn't knock you out of stealth. Maybe in gw2 because the amount of AOE this would be too restrictive then? (Unless they set it to some damage threshold). This is why stealth is high-reward, low-risk. If you're in stealth and you miss your burst, you're still in stealth - even if they turn and do a bunch of AoE. With the mobility of most thieves, it only compounds this. Stealth should be high-risk, high-reward. Not "spam attacks while invisible and untargettable, and if you miss oh wells just try again!" (Just to be clear, too, as Scrapper you can abuse stealth a lot by healing and cleansing and reviving people while in stealth, as well... I have personally revived lords this way, while taking damage - just start the revive before you take the 1st tick). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AliamRationem.5172 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 There's no fixing it now without redesigning the thief class, but having so much stealth access that isn't tied to any sort of cooldown (e.g. combo fields, initiative-based weapon skills) is an awful design. It's obnoxious to fight against even if thief is no threat at all. This should never have been a thing in competitive modes. Too much stealth. Too much mobility. Just let us fight, will you!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 @TrollingDemigod.3041 said:@Dawdler.8521 said:@Galmac.4680 said:@Dawdler.8521 said:Still in favor of a system where for every second you are in stealth, you cant stealth for a second (debuff that cannot be negated). Adds up over time, doesnt matter if in combat or not. So if a thief want to stealth for a minute, he can... but as soon as he no longer stealth or attack, he cant stealth for a minute.Which should be capped to some maximum!If a thief can stealth for 10 minutes straight, great what a pro dagger leaper. But he then cant stealth for 10 minutes lol. And the debuff would of course remain even if you log out (like food, not like boons).The point is to weigh the time you are in stealth vs the cost. So I would argue no cap for such an idea.I like the idea, but I would rather have it capped at 10s max, since we have build templates so it's possible that they'd stack 30s+ stealth and then switch to evasive build seconds before engage.That would be classified as another issue - you shouldnt be able to switch templates while stealthed (or technically, stealthing should always be counted as being in combat). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clownmug.8357 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 Perm stealth? Is stealth so op now it lets you use a hair style kit on other players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 Have an opacity filter range for non team proximity and a Stealth Attack window starting at full stealth application like Cloak and Dagger or not in proximity with leap combos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virdo.1540 Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 They simply dont know how to fix the whole stealth/reveal system at all. With this, they wont bother with that topic.Perm stealth is at a point, where it should be considered as exploiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovu.7560 Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 Have stealth skills overlap rather than stack, like superspeed.Exceptions can be certain skills on a case-by-case that are intended to stack. (Shadow refuge, sneak gyro etc.) There's already a cloaking mechanic, (camouflage?), separate from stealth, use that for the handful of pulsing skills.Blasting stealth fields could grant a flat 6s of stealth that can't be increased beyond that. (Further blasts just reset the timer.)Increase base stealth durations on thief skills, halve all durations to anyone in combat (so blasting in combat would be 3 seconds) to discourage "resetting", remove the sentry mark debuff's ability to reveal (but still mark them on the minimap.) Remove DE's ability to peel a reveal.~ Kovu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TinkTinkPOOF.9201 Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 @Handin.4032 said:@"TinkTinkPOOF.9201" said:I would be happy with just using an attack reveals them. Pretty annoying to have a thief, engi, ranger etc open with a burst from stealth and me to predict when it's coming and dodge it or counter it with a block.....Only to have them remain in stealth? This is one of my only complaints about stealth, sorry, this should not be a try burst, fail, never be revealed, reset, wait for CD and try again.It's so ridiculous to see a full rapid fire etc coming out of thin air 1,500+ range away hitting shelter "block, block, block, block" and just standing there waiting for something to actually target and fight. If they use a skill that misses, blinded, blocked etc etc it should still reveal the player.^ This. It's how stealth has worked in every other game I've played. Also, taking damage (or even healing others) doesn't knock you out of stealth. Maybe in gw2 because the amount of AOE this would be too restrictive then? (Unless they set it to some damage threshold). This is why stealth is high-reward, low-risk. If you're in stealth and you miss your burst, you're still in stealth - even if they turn and do a bunch of AoE. With the mobility of most thieves, it only compounds this. Stealth should be high-risk, high-reward. Not "spam attacks while invisible and untargettable, and if you miss oh wells just try again!" (Just to be clear, too, as Scrapper you can abuse stealth a lot by healing and cleansing and reviving people while in stealth, as well... I have personally revived lords this way, while taking damage - just start the revive before you take the 1st tick). There is a middle ground for this, being hit doesn't need to reveal, it only needs to show dmg indicators like all other combat, having to keep combat logs open is just stupid, there is no reason for dmg floaters to be removed when hitting someone in stealth. You know you are hitting something, even if you can't see them, so if they dodge or port etc etc they are still in stealth and can get away.I think these "buggy" feeling mechanics are what make people hate stealth the most. I think fixing some of these would put stealth in a better place and doesn't kill off the many builds that use stealth because one or two almost 100% stealth uptime builds exist. The other issue I have is DE with reveal remove ability......Why? Stealth is a powerful if not one of the most powerful mechanics in the game and has both offensive and defensive use. Like with block, we have unblockable skills and traits as counters....Where is my unblockable block? Having a counter to a counter is stupid when most classes don't have reveal in a functioning build and the ones who do are VERY short duration and very long CD and often require a target and can still be dodged etc. When you reveal one of these builds, this is just about the ONLY time you have to target and hit them, they also still have all their evasion, ports, blinds, blocks etc etc still, but no, lets give them a skill with 2 charges that not only removes reveal but also gives them stealth, with only a 45 sec CD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saerni.2584 Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 @Kovu.7560 has a decent idea but that won't necessarily stop permastealth. People just need to space out their stealth applications more carefully (I would add that splitting the duration timer in/out of combat may not be easily technically feasible). I'd also mention that there aren't that many permastealth thieves out there. For one, it takes a lot of effort (unless doing a group coordinated effort) and it rarely has that much pay off outside of helping set up an opener on unsuspecting opponents. I suspect a lot of complaints about permastealth are from people who fought thieves who stealthed for variable periods of time and then killed them. But, because they couldn't know how much stealth the thief had access to they had no idea if the thief was able to permanently stealth or would have been forced to be visible for a while if the fight had lasted half a minute longer. But, ultimately permastealth comes down to cheap Heart Seeker through smoke fields. Anet doesn't mind that kind of permastealth because you can see the combo field and try to damage them or force them out of the field. Same is true for Shadow Refuge. They also increased the cooldown on Smoke Screen so people can't individually use it too often. Want an actual and simple fix to permastealth? Nerf the stealth duration from smoke combo finishers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 make revealed last longer and not able to be removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bristingr.5034 Posted April 7, 2021 Share Posted April 7, 2021 @Dawdler.8521 said:@Galmac.4680 said:@Dawdler.8521 said:Still in favor of a system where for every second you are in stealth, you cant stealth for a second (debuff that cannot be negated). Adds up over time, doesnt matter if in combat or not. So if a thief want to stealth for a minute, he can... but as soon as he no longer stealth or attack, he cant stealth for a minute.Which should be capped to some maximum!If a thief can stealth for 10 minutes straight, great what a pro dagger leaper. But he then cant stealth for 10 minutes lol. And the debuff would of course remain even if you log out (like food, not like boons).The point is to weigh the time you are in stealth vs the cost. So I would argue no cap for such an idea.Okay. EZ. Stealth, set portal, run out of keep, wait out the invis penalty, port back in, repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodama.6453 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 Change stealth while inside enemy towers/keeps/castles into the treasure mushroom stealth.You are technically stealthed, meaning that you get the benefits of traits/stealth attacks/etc. But you stay visible for the enemy players and can get targeted, so you can't hide to teleport enemies in once people have left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeesh.7286 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 I'll be happy if they put a modifier where if you went stealth, you can't go out of combat for like 15 secs or something after getting out of stealth and you can never go out of combat while you're in stealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lare.5129 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 perma stealth is a good valid content for specific class. Can it be improved to keep invisible more logner ? Ofc yes. Because now you nees actively press buttons to keep it. Aslo some damage can be increased for thief, for help more faster kill someone near blob, and run after. More better have one buton - press is - and be in stealth all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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