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Next Ranger Elite With Rifle : Yes/No


ErenYeager.3914

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Rangers archetypes cover such a huge variety of themes I'd hate to see its new espec limited by a narrow narrative that some posters seem to attach to it. Yeah ranger can mean range the land, survivalist,hunter( some games either outright name the ranger class hunter or include it as a sub class of the ranger), keeper of the lands and further more park rangers and special ops etc. Uve got lord of the rings rangers who can use bows or predominantly swords or both, d&d's new vid releasing soon has one of the lores most well known rangers as a dual sword wielding rogue class and u kno nothing John snow being considered a ranger though I can't even remember him using a bow. My point is that a ranger can be type cast in a variety of ways and yes a bow is often its weapon of choice but one thing stays constant is most share a lot in common with rogue specs being they usually have some type of access to stealth and high mobility, just not built around it and first and foremost the nature theme which seems to interchange with hunter theme in most games.So that all said tho I don't want rifle per se it definitely fits with the park ranger/special op type theme so don't kno how u could say it doesnt but as most said I'd probably be redundant on ranger when lb exists as it currently does.Great hammer has to be thee least fitting weapon for a ranger archetype regardless of gw1 as it doesn't fit nature, hunter, survivalist, grounds keeper, park ranger or any theme for ranger.I'd say a thief like ranger espec would be far more fitting the ranger theme dare I say a outlaw ranger spec cough cough one of the most lore heavy ranger archetypes irl. Class already has access to stealth, traps and good mobility, hunter espec would fit as well. One poster said hunter is opposite of the rangers theme but I disagree as hunter archetypes are in place of rangers or subclasses of rangers for a reason, their still nature themed and are survivalist and are respectful to nature, do to the respect and knowledge they have for all that is nature is what makes them great hunters..Let's not restrict rangers possibilities to such tight narratives.

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@StrangeSelcouth nz.9256 said:Although I voted yes for rifle, I would love if a new ranged weapon is introduced.

If a new weopon is introduced in the next expansion, I think a spear/javelin would be great on a ranger. Having a mix of ranged and melee attacks, throwing the javelin's close - medium range, and jumping in to stab the enemy would be cool .

This would be awesome^

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  • 2 weeks later...

Absolutely not. Next weapon should make sense for the new spec. For example, if we're getting some kind of spirit master or shaman, I would expect a MH scepter.

If we're getting a shapeshifter (the only reasonable option), then mace (i.e. club) or focus (i.e. charm) somehow make sense to me.

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@mistsim.2748 said:Absolutely not. Next weapon should make sense for the new spec. For example, if we're getting some kind of spirit master or shaman, I would expect a MH scepter.

If we're getting a shapeshifter (the only reasonable option), then mace (i.e. club) or focus (i.e. charm) somehow make sense to me.

Why would Rangers being shapeshifters be the only reasonable option?

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@The Greyhawk.9107 said:

@mistsim.2748 said:Absolutely not. Next weapon should make sense for the new spec. For example, if we're getting some kind of spirit master or shaman, I would expect a MH scepter.

If we're getting a shapeshifter (the only reasonable option), then mace (i.e. club) or focus (i.e. charm) somehow make sense to me.

Why would Rangers being shapeshifters be the only reasonable option?

Because that's what I want :)

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My vote was no. Ranger already has a ton of ranged, so is not a gap they really have. I also don't see them being able to use it in a new way, where as an elmental rifle with Elementalist would be pretty cool.

The two I would most like to see:Off Hand Sword: Two Weapon Fighting is very classic ranger, especially with swords. Power focus to fit with main hand sword (torch/dagger already cover condi specs for offhand anyways)

Main hand Scepter: Ranger weapons are very hybrid, and this could bring a sharper focus to condi for those that want it.

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I never understand this "but the lore!" argument against ranger rifles

This is pretty much the only class that hinders it's own choices willingly

Anet gave a sword to engineers and they were just "wow, neat!"

Anet could give rifles to elementalists or necros and they would be happy for a new 1200 range weapon, they wouldn't complain that it's not magical enough

I can only assume half of it is some silly pining for Bunny Thumper 2.0 which is never going to be a thing

Hard CC is no longer does damage in pvp and Anet isn't going to make the pet stronger without handicapping the ranger to such an absurd degree that it's near useless against other players due to npc AI limitations

The melee monster that was BT 1.0 is never coming back, especially after what they've done to the greatsword at this point

It didn't even last that long in GW1 before Anet nerfed the hell out of it for making warrior obsolete with their own weapon

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@"Substance E.4852" said:I never understand this "but the lore!" argument against ranger rifles

This is pretty much the only class that hinders it's own choices willingly

Anet gave a sword to engineers and they were just "wow, neat!"

Anet could give rifles to elementalists or necros and they would be happy for a new 1200 range weapon, they wouldn't complain that it's not magical enough

I can only assume half of it is some silly pining for Bunny Thumper 2.0 which is never going to be a thing

Hard CC is no longer does damage in pvp and Anet isn't going to make the pet stronger without handicapping the ranger to such an absurd degree that it's near useless against other players due to npc AI limitations

The melee monster that was BT 1.0 is never coming back, especially after what they've done to the greatsword at this point

It didn't even last that long in GW1 before Anet nerfed the hell out of it for making warrior obsolete with their own weapon

Ranger is not the only profession limited by the statement "not fitting".

There are ways to make scepter work for warrior if you really want to force it, but the majority of people will tell you that warrior shouldn't get scepter as an elite spec weapon in the next years, simply because it doesn't really fit the warrior profession to swing around a flimsy magical stick.How are warriors going to use that weapon? Hitting people with it, which makes it effectively just a mace with a different skin?

Or other people might point out that hammer is not a great choice for a thief elite spec, since thief is all about agility and speed and hammer is the weapon most associated with being slow probably. It is big, slow, cumbersome. Look at the weapon pool available for thief, they usually go for weapons which are more giving a sense of speed.

I would also find it odd to see bows on engineer, as another example. Engineer already has the ability to launch a wide array of different ammunitions with their options, like the rifle/pistol, mortar kit, elixir gun, etc. Why all of a sudden an elite spec would feel like "I need a bow specifically to launch this kind of ammunition!", it makes no sense for me.

And ranger rifle is another of these "odd choices" for me. They are deeply intertwined with nature in the lore and rifles (or other modern firearms) can oftenly get associated with industrialization and destruction of nature. Rifles and pistols are the weapons which stray away the furthest from ranger's naturalistic theme, hence why I consider them the worst options in the pool of weapons we have left to pick from.

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@"Choppy.4183" said:Seems to me a gap ranger has is boon hate and aoe skills. Not sure how you'd make rifle work with that, but the weapon type is more just a skin anyway, isn't it? Function over form, I say.

this i agree with completely. weapons are just skins. the skills you get are what matters.

as for aoe and rifle they can easily make it an "assault rifle" for ranger and have cone aoe spray/bulletspam attacks just like how they made rifle into a "sniper rifle" for deadeye with death's judgement. or they can make rifle a melee weapon (for the arguments that ranger needs a melee weapon) and be like a "shotgun" and do splash type damage to 3 targets (a way to "cleave" with rifle)

boon hate and rifle though probably not (atleast in a way that would look fitting)

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@Astyrah.4015 said:

@"Choppy.4183" said:Seems to me a gap ranger has is boon hate and aoe skills. Not sure how you'd make rifle work with that, but the weapon type is more just a skin anyway, isn't it? Function over form, I say.

this i agree with completely. weapons are just skins. the skills you get are what matters.

as for aoe and rifle they can easily make it an "assault rifle" for ranger and have cone aoe spray/bulletspam attacks just like how they made rifle into a "sniper rifle" for deadeye with death's judgement. or they can make rifle a melee weapon (for the arguments that ranger needs a melee weapon) and be like a "shotgun" and do splash type damage to 3 targets (a way to "cleave" with rifle)

boon hate and rifle though probably not (atleast in a way that would look fitting)

That's the thing, with these ideas you are invading design spaces of other classes.

There are 3 rifles so far introduced into the game for the classes warrior, engineer and deadeye.Deadeye, as you mentioned, is filling the sniper fantasy.Warrior is supposed to be the assault rifle.And engineer is the shotgun.

So giving ranger an assault rifle or shotgun would take away from the weapon fantasy of these classes... and as an engineer main, it would really feel terrible to see ranger getting a better shotgun rifle than I have myself, when my class is supposed to be the shotgun user. Especially since engineer's rifle is in a pretty bad spot right now.

I think we should keep these thematical niches distinct.And that's on top of me thinking that rifle doesn't fit ranger in the first place.

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@Kodama.6453 said:

@"Choppy.4183" said:Seems to me a gap ranger has is boon hate and aoe skills. Not sure how you'd make rifle work with that, but the weapon type is more just a skin anyway, isn't it? Function over form, I say.

this i agree with completely. weapons are just skins. the skills you get are what matters.

as for aoe and rifle they can easily make it an "assault rifle" for ranger and have cone aoe spray/bulletspam attacks just like how they made rifle into a "sniper rifle" for deadeye with death's judgement. or they can make rifle a melee weapon (for the arguments that ranger needs a melee weapon) and be like a "shotgun" and do splash type damage to 3 targets (a way to "cleave" with rifle)

boon hate and rifle though probably not (atleast in a way that would look fitting)

That's the thing, with these ideas you are invading design spaces of other classes.

There are 3 rifles so far introduced into the game for the classes warrior, engineer and deadeye.Deadeye, as you mentioned, is filling the sniper fantasy.Warrior is supposed to be the assault rifle.And engineer is the shotgun.

So giving ranger an assault rifle or shotgun would take away from the weapon fantasy of these classes... and as an engineer main, it would really feel terrible to see ranger getting a better shotgun rifle than I have myself, when my class is supposed to be the shotgun user. Especially since engineer's rifle is in a pretty bad spot right now.

I think we should keep these thematical niches distinct.And that's on top of me thinking that rifle doesn't fit ranger in the first place.

well if you limit design (or weapon fantasy) to certain classes, then you also limit the variety of what they can produce for elite specs (for any class).

ranger getting a melee or ranged rifle, doesn't really have to focus on just the rifle, it can also be a pet-focused elite spec with a "shotgun" as it's theme weapon, like for hunting. it will not completely overlap with warrior rifle or engineer rifle -- in fact the meta build for holosmith rifle for raids only uses jump shot and "blunderbuss" a few times in the main rotation loop and even then you're mostly spamming grenades, bombs and holosmith skills rather than rifle skills so i wouldn't call it exactly a "shotgun soldier build".

deadeye's rifle 3 on the other hand is pretty assault rifle-ish (3 round burst) which is similar to warrior's rifle 3 though warrior's is much slower but still a burst shot and they don't feel redundant at all (not to mention deadeye's non-kneeling rifle 2 and 4 is also somewhat similar to warrior's)

it's like dragonhunter getting traps and a longbow when ranger already does those two. it didn't completely overlap with ranger at all not only because the skills are different but also guardian has no pet like ranger, just as ranger has no tool kits/equipment to use that the engineer has -- ranger getting a "shotgun" doesnt have to have exactly the same skills as engineer's rifle, just like dragonhunter vs ranger's longbow.

as for whether ranger would get a better shotgun than engineer, well deadeye got a better assault rifle (with a bonus sniper mode) than warrior -OR- you never know, the new ranger elite spec could end up like dragonhunter where the thematic weapon isn't even used for it's meta build (DH's preferring to use GS and 1hSword+X or Scepter+X) due to the repeated/multiple nerfs to it's longbow use

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@"Kodama.6453" said:as an engineer main, it would really feel terrible to see ranger getting a better shotgun rifle than I have myself, when my class is supposed to be the shotgun user. Especially since engineer's rifle is in a pretty bad spot right now.

And precisely how much did you think us ranger mains enjoyed watching Scrapper become a "must pick" team support in WvW while druid was told to kick bricks?

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@Substance E.4852 said:

@"Kodama.6453" said:as an engineer main, it would really feel terrible to see ranger getting a better shotgun rifle than I have myself, when my class is supposed to be the shotgun user. Especially since engineer's rifle is in a pretty bad spot right now.

And precisely how much did you think us ranger mains enjoyed watching Scrapper become a "must pick" team support in WvW while druid was told to kick bricks?

How long did it take for scrapper to become valuable, tho?And druid seems fine, considering that it is the meta healer in endgame PvE (raids, etc.).

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  • 1 month later...
On 4/14/2021 at 2:53 PM, Kodama.6453 said:

 

And precisely how much did you think us ranger mains enjoyed watching Scrapper become a "must pick" team support in WvW while druid was told to kick bricks?

 

How long did it take for scrapper to become valuable, tho?And druid seems fine, considering that it is the meta healer in endgame PvE (raids, etc.).

 

I don't understand how people can look at the PvE druid build and say that druid is fine.

 

It is LITERALLY BABYSITTING SPIRITS, a CORE RANGER skill set. And then there is grace of the land and the fact that it heals anything all. That's it.

 

Valuable is an understatement. Scrapper is most broken support to ever enter wvw (I'm leaving guardian, aka the stab bot, out of it).

Edited by Lazze.9870
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4 hours ago, Lazze.9870 said:

 

I don't understand how people can look at the PvE druid build and say that druid is fine.

 

It is LITERALLY BABYSITTING SPIRITS, a CORE RANGER skill set. And then there is grace of the land and the fact that it heals anything all. That's it.

 

Valuable is an understatement. Scrapper is most broken support to ever enter wvw (I'm leaving guardian, aka the stab bot, out of it).

Druids are babysitting spirits, because they are great unique buffs for group dps. 

So it is not that other skills are underperforming, but that spirits are overperforming... they are so strong that you are required to take them in an organised group. Same is true for banners from warrior, for example.

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2 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Druids are babysitting spirits, because they are great unique buffs for group dps. 

So it is not that other skills are underperforming, but that spirits are overperforming... they are so strong that you are required to take them in an organised group. Same is true for banners from warrior, for example.

 

This spin on this would make a top jealous 

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3 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Druids are babysitting spirits, because they are great unique buffs for group dps. 

So it is not that other skills are underperforming, but that spirits are overperforming... they are so strong that you are required to take them in an organised group. Same is true for banners from warrior, for example.

 

Try supporting someone on druid in pvp or wvw, compare it to any other meta frequent support build and tell me again that druid isn't underperforming when you take away its pve-only spirit bot build. Tell how much you didn't wish you could just enter a medkit whenever you wanted and top someone up by pressing 1111111111.

 

Cosmic Ray was always garbage and clunky, Seed of Life should be 240 radius, lesser Seed of Life should be bumped back to 2 cleanses. Rejuvenating Tides is rarely worth casting if not for GotL stacking in PvE (I barely use it in PvP/wvw unless I can blast it with Clarion Bond and get some worthwhile self-healing out of it). Glyphs are niche skills*, and can't even be used underwater despite being PBAoE skills. Glyph of the Star was a cool idea, but they never refined it to either be 1) something you place on the ground and leave it without the 7 seconds channel or 2) something that follows you as you move - and thus it sees no use. I could go on and on. Underperforming is the middle name for half the druid kit.

 

You don't even need a druid to bring spirits. You can just slot in whatever is needed on any ranger spec. Druid is just an efficient way of doing it for 10 man pve content.

 

*I will say that Glyph of Equality and Glyph of Alignement are solid support skills in avatar form, but that just highlights how lackluster it is as a support outside of avatar form.

Edited by Lazze.9870
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