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Desert borderland why ?


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@Dawdler.8521 said:

@aspirine.6852 said:Perhaps we will get a Cantha themed map to replace it. But I doubt they will burn their hands again on a new wvw map :)The only way this would possibly be better than Tangled Depths is if its an all underwater Cantha map.

Underwater WvW map sounds like fun. Everyone's tired of the current meta anyway, so we should welcome our new tempest overlords with a water map.

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I enjoy the desert bl. It was a absolute nightmare when it first came out due to the barricades and poorly places waypoints. But once they fixed it it became great. I am not fond of the alpine maps they are way to small and the ai for the lords is outdated compared to the desert lords.

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@xikira.3264 said:the ai for the lords is outdated compared to the desert lords.

I'll never understand why everyone and their dog that likes the desert BL particularly like the PvE aspect of desert BL.Personally I find the CC spamming lords on DBL to be actively making the game worse. They exist almost solely to compensate for the fact that actually moving around the map to defend these keeps takes so long.

Almost as if there's a glaring flaw with making a map significantly larger than the rest, and then locking the methods of moving around faster in it behind having all 3 PvE shrines, which you're basically never going to have if someone is attacking your keep, because they're going to walk right past a minimum of 1 shrine to get to your keep.

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@Solanum.6983 said:I actually think the Desert is an amazing map, You can tell how much work went into it and I wish the older maps got updated to be similar.The problem with the Desert is it's size, as an EB it's size would be okay but as a borderlands It takes way too long to traverse if something is being attacked on the other side of the map. There's also some siege spot issues but those could be fixed easily if the devs ever wanted to tend to WvW maps.

This.

I love roaming on DBL, I just wish it was 50% smaller.

EB and alpine sicken me. I play them because I have to, but after 2000+ hours...

I feel they should just have a map designed for small roaming gangs. Small objectives, shorter distances, I think it would be a lot of fun.

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When tag asks 'stay in this borefest, go dbl or ebg' I vote dbl every time. It is a lovely map. Lots of space to scrim with other guilds for example. Lots of ways to be sneaky if you just want to solo something for daily and a big plus: the map chat in dbl is bearable. Unlike ebg where the toxic elements and trolls congregate.

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@"VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618" said:When tag asks 'stay in this borefest, go dbl or ebg' I vote dbl every time. It is a lovely map. Lots of space to scrim with other guilds for example. Lots of ways to be sneaky if you just want to solo something for daily and a big plus: the map chat in dbl is bearable. Unlike ebg where the toxic elements and trolls congregate.

Fun for invaders and ppt monkeys who like to sneak objectives. Not so fun for defending server and that's the problem.Truly a dream map for Piken.

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Desert bl is perfect map... For making more queues. Its where weak guilds and roamers go to find each other once an hour.

Everyone else queues up to alpines or EBG.

Yea remove it, and add another ebg as well. From 3 playable maps to 5, would be lit. 2 sms to assault, the dream

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Red map is funny to see groups that have no where to hide when they fail to take over a structure due distance and map layout, in alpine and EB u can get across easilly to the latest capped strucutre or blob empty structre while some "bots" will mass treb other emptyu strutures(i call it the maps of the fools who need to be carried), EB and Alpine is is also more oriented to new players, on Red map its more towards zone controlling wich is strange cause could be a decent way to structure maps and the gameplay but GW2 at the moment conflicts with this concept, gw2 is a game to cap close structures then leave or hide back to the latest captured structure to go cap something that is just PVD(and mostly like Gw1 ABA most time omni groups would just cap and leave to next shrine), this behaviour leads to red map being mostly abandoned, theres zones to control yet game dot not evolve around that concept, so it will be used to cap empty stuff mostly and then leave.

The problem with red bl is that WvW is a weak gamemode that runs on a very weak concept.Its ment to please players that want to get carried by blobbing empty structures, fight smalled groups, and groups that change server to have less fights and more caps.

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I like it, the map/s I dislike the most are the Alpine maps.Admittedly this is because they have duplicates and once upon a time I was forced to map complete 3 of them per character to get world completion.

I'd rather see another new map come in to replace the last duplicate alpine so we finally have 4 unique maps for WvW.

If you dislike Desert so much then just don't play on it and take the loss..If you choose "not" to partake in battles because you dislike the field then don't complain when your enemies take more territory than you :P

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They need to get rid of the home borderland concept, but it won't happen because they won't work on new or old maps.

If they had started with all maps designed evenly like ebg, wvw probably would have been in a better place for maps at this point, with a match having one each of ebg/alpine/desert/eotm, and even better with rotating lockouts on maps to move players around maps like warhammer online and planetside did for their maps. On top of that the flexibility to move map count up or down if four seemed too much or too little.

But everyone would have had access to their favorite map in a match and the rewards available on all of them (which we know everyone plays for, but for some reason don't want to improve!). Carry on.

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their original intentions were pretty good, but back then also no gliding and warclaw existed (or was gliding yet introduced? notsure).

either way, the spawn is placed wrong (if it was south of garri there, map would be not that much worse than alpines, despite the heights)

in the end, there should be a random choice of 1 alpine 1 desert 1*newother border outside of EBG per matchup. the RNG element to lottery borders towards colors would make way more sense and break the staleness. even in present, usually only one of the alpine borders gets heavy content (mostly by ppters), while the other one is used mainly by fighting groups and stays untouched, at best paper keeps at the exposed spots traded around.

the heavy bias of people towards desert border is just not justified.

@TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:

@"Forgotten Legend.9281" said:2) there is way too much wasted space on the north of the map: ie the skritt and centaur areas

You can't seriously kitten on Alpine for "wasted space" while praising Desert BL. That has got to be a troll.Desert BL is a walking simulator. And the only saving grace to it is if you know the few hay bale spots that make it somewhat tolerable to navigate.

Compared to Desert BL, Alpine is nice and cozy. Who cares about that space to the north.

Also, the shrines are easily one of the worst gimmicks on Desert BL.

yeah, desert has more wasted space, bc the space in desert isn't really usable for much due to the big amount of obstructions (doodads). which is not a valid excuse for the literally useless mercanaries of the both alpine borders, tho.i'm not a huge fan of the shrines either, but they don't really need a change. i think overall all borders' ruins are way more problematic than shrines.

that to be said, all maps need heavy mechanics updates. the npcs are on the one hand a bit too massed up on some spots, on other spots they are pointless or just there to make u stuck in battle without any point, other are that very hidden that they could just be removed as well. and the powercreep of players versus keep lords/supervisors is another thing.

also, everyone always forgets about EotM :P

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The terrain is more complex, the cliffs are higher, and the paths are windier, resulting in an even deeper field of battle.

And has more kitten plant stumps on the ground for you to stub your toe on. Every 2sec you need to look where you're stepping so you don't get freely immobilized by the terrain.

Keeps and towers are more distinctive than before. They all have unique architecture, unique guards, and a unique lord protecting the capture point. The three keeps are elementally themed—air, earth, and fire.

Sure, cool, themes, too bad it does nothing for their value sitting in the middle of nowhere now. Not even interconnect like alpines.

We’ve made towers more strategically important. Rather than simply being isolated landmarks for invaders to easily sidestep, towers now wall off larger sections of the map and create real choke points. Controlling one of these towers not only allows your team to pass easily into another section of the map but also creates a noticeable impediment to the movement of enemy armies. The gates of towers and keeps are now more dangerous to attack head-on. Invaders must pass underneath a kill box of arched walls, putting them at risk for attacks from above on all sides. Even the terrain itself is more geared toward giving players the opportunity to make intelligent—or foolish—tactical plays in nuanced terrain.

Yeah made them into chokes, I mean jokes, except for zergs that could just go through the barricade, oh and place the waypoints in the south towers instead of the side keeps which made those useless. The north towers weren't even chokes to territories, just more kitten pain to defend. Gates being dangerous kill boxes, lmao, sure if pulls wasn't a thing, or lets just cata off to the side and completely avoid it. Even if alpines was more open, it at least made towers important places where you could siege the keeps, a lesson they failed to carry over.

The center of the map is a giant jungle oasis. It’s filled with complex rocky terrain, winding streams, bamboo walkways through the trees, an enormous golden temple, and dinosaurs. This is an environment that caters to roamers, ambushers, and gankers.

Hey gankers never say anet didn't keep you in mind for this oasis!... that got overrun by zergs for the lag cannon event, and remained useless in between because no one wants to fight gankers, and playing in an empty area is actually a waste of time which is better spent taking camps and shrines instead.

We want to give players solid reasons to keep their keeps, so you might find that running up to knock on your enemy’s front door with a big group isn’t the most efficient path to victory.

By taking away their single most important feature and giving it to the enemies tower down south, which was even buggy at that.Also, bringing a big group is always more efficient, unless of course you just want players to sneak stuff, but then, what's the point of wvw and pvp mix....

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@XenesisII.1540 said:

We want to give players solid reasons to keep their keeps, so you might find that running up to knock on your enemy’s front door with a big group isn’t the most efficient path to victory.

By taking away their single most important feature and giving it to the enemies tower down south, which was even buggy at that.Also, bringing a big group is always more efficient, unless of course you just want players to sneak stuff, but then, what's the point of wvw and pvp mix....

Its not uncommon back then that a 5 man or small skirmish group would take t3 stuff or pressure enemy BL to alleviate pressure from the main fight. Not to mention its easier to take stuff in a small group rather then a large group because it takes forever to kill the lord due to scaling.

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taking stuff "back then" was afaik more prestigious, bc at some point there been tournaments, and probably the earlier stuff to get was rarer compared to these days?

plus, u had to pay gold for leveling settlements, right? (or paying the workers, no idea how this really gone) - that's giving them more worth alone by doing that. would be interesting to get numbers of how many of the very old Wvwers still play either. From the guilds i kinda think that the biggest amount of them are way younger. notsure if i know any real fighting guild that is older than 2016 /17 even.

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@"XenesisII.1540" said:They need to get rid of the home borderland concept, but it won't happen because they won't work on new or old maps.

If they had started with all maps designed evenly like ebg, wvw probably would have been in a better place for maps at this point, with a match having one each of ebg/alpine/desert/eotm, and even better with rotating lockouts on maps to move players around maps like warhammer online and planetside did for their maps. On top of that the flexibility to move map count up or down if four seemed too much or too little.

But everyone would have had access to their favorite map in a match and the rewards available on all of them (which we know everyone plays for, but for some reason don't want to improve!). Carry on.

Exactly this. The "home borderland" concept is bad and can't be fixed. Nothing kills the fun in a competitive mode more than a map that is supposed to be mostly controlled by only one side out of three.

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@Threather.9354 said:Desert bl is perfect map... For making more queues. Its where weak guilds and roamers go to find each other once an hour.

Everyone else queues up to alpines or EBG.

Yea remove it, and add another ebg as well. From 3 playable maps to 5, would be lit. 2 sms to assault, the dream

Lol, at people thinking MORE maps is what we need. Outside of Reset (and for an hour at most), when do we EVER see all 4 current maps queued?

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@Salt Mode.3780 said:

We want to give players solid reasons to keep their keeps, so you might find that running up to knock on your enemy’s front door with a big group isn’t the most efficient path to victory.

By taking away their single most important feature and giving it to the enemies tower down south, which was even buggy at that.Also, bringing a big group is always more efficient, unless of course you just want players to sneak stuff, but then, what's the point of wvw and pvp mix....

Its not uncommon back then that a 5 man or small skirmish group would take t3 stuff or pressure enemy BL to alleviate pressure from the main fight. Not to mention its easier to take stuff in a small group rather then a large group because it takes forever to kill the lord due to scaling.

Yes I know, I was part of a guild that use to 5 man sneak cap t3 keeps in under 3 mins all the time, something that required hours of prep for it to even happen, capping camps, breaking down siege, building omegas and then stashing them in the right spots for the quick rush, meanwhile pulling the enemy eyes off targets and waiting for cool down periods to make it happen. We use to harass the enemy all the time to pull their numbers off our side.

My problem is them actually designing an entire map for this, to be sneaky, more small groups, more chokes, shrines, more hinderances to big numbers, meanwhile putting in tools that killed that size of groups anyways like watch tower and increasing guild cata supply cost, ewp, putting in disablers was a good idea, for large groups, for small groups it's all that's needed to kill hours of planning and give defenders enough time to respond to that small group. Numbers still overcome any of this kitten.

These days sure you can still do it on the side when your zerg is taking up all the defender manpower (easy to do in desert cause barely anyone gives a kitten), let's not mention those groups that do it just to cap stuff and run at the first sign of trouble, or hop maps after one wipe, they're part of the reason why wvw is so terrible these days. But what's the point anyways in a system where winning no longer matters, you just do it for a fight and hope the enemy doesn't respond with 2x your numbers.

So bottom line, bring more numbers is always better anyways, and design a map where all the objectives are actually connected and give you a reason to go after them instead of disconnected gimmicks.

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@Bristingr.5034 said:

@Threather.9354 said:Desert bl is perfect map... For making more queues. Its where weak guilds and roamers go to find each other once an hour.

Everyone else queues up to alpines or EBG.

Yea remove it, and add another ebg as well. From 3 playable maps to 5, would be lit. 2 sms to assault, the dream

Lol, at people thinking MORE maps is what we need. Outside of Reset (and for an hour at most), when do we EVER see all 4 current maps queued?

They could lower map caps, which helps with lag, to spread players to more maps.... It's an option.

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@Bristingr.5034 said:

@Threather.9354 said:Desert bl is perfect map... For making more queues. Its where weak guilds and roamers go to find each other once an hour.

Everyone else queues up to alpines or EBG.

Yea remove it, and add another ebg as well. From 3 playable maps to 5, would be lit. 2 sms to assault, the dream

Lol, at people thinking MORE maps is what we need. Outside of Reset (and for an hour at most), when do we EVER see all 4 current maps queued?

Nowadays, basically never.With a new expac coming though, there's potential for a lot of old members to come back, and many people are going to want to try out the new specs in WvW. There is a genuine conversation you could have on the development team about planning around trying to keep said players.

That said, ANet's never thought that far ahead, so I fully expect the population to decline even more in the long term.

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@TheOneWhoSighs.7513 said:

@Threather.9354 said:Desert bl is perfect map... For making more queues. Its where weak guilds and roamers go to find each other once an hour.

Everyone else queues up to alpines or EBG.

Yea remove it, and add another ebg as well. From 3 playable maps to 5, would be lit. 2 sms to assault, the dream

Lol, at people thinking MORE maps is what we need. Outside of Reset (and for an hour at most), when do we EVER see all 4 current maps queued?

With a new expac coming though, there's potential for a lot of old members to come back, and many people are going to want to try out the new specs in WvW.

People didnt leave in the first place due to gw2's combat, it's generally considered the game's big standout achievement. They left because of the environment that combat takes place in...

And that won't change with this expac any more than it has since launch, Living Story gets the lions share of resources to the exclusion of everything else and mass participation zerging buffs if wvw gets thrown a bone at all.

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@XenesisII.1540 said:

@Threather.9354 said:Desert bl is perfect map... For making more queues. Its where weak guilds and roamers go to find each other once an hour.

Everyone else queues up to alpines or EBG.

Yea remove it, and add another ebg as well. From 3 playable maps to 5, would be lit. 2 sms to assault, the dream

Lol, at people thinking MORE maps is what we need. Outside of Reset (and for an hour at most), when do we EVER see all 4 current maps queued?

They could lower map caps, which helps with lag, to spread players to more maps.... It's an option.

just no... its yet around 70ish only, the caps got lowered once or twice within the last two years. if we keep going by that, you won't be able to field full squads anymore... Wvw dies with increased pug-pirateships. it's so toxic having to play on maps that have 30-40 ppl open formating cloudfighting. that'd be really a reason to abandon gw2 for the last serious players.

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