Legendary trinkets

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Veprovina.4876" said:What does "zerg every challange" mean in this context?This is an MMO, of course you're going to be expected to handle challanges with other players, and you do as much, if not more solo stuff on your path to a legendary so can you please explain what you meant by that?He probably means that there's nothing really "legendary" about legendary journey anyway.

[Yggranya.5201]

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@"Shadowmoon.7986" said:Having full legendaries should mean you play all content.

Why? (Ugh, why is there some stupid minimum character limit all of a sudden?)

Probably because if something is "legendary", that means that, to get it, you have mastered all game modes.If you want to fully gear your character with legendaries, you have to do just that.

It's not much of a "legendary journey" if you zerg every challenge. Would make much more sense to be solo, not as an option, but as a requirement.

What does "zerg every challange" mean in this context?This is an MMO, of course you're going to be expected to handle challanges with other players, and you do as much, if not more solo stuff on your path to a legendary so can you please explain what you meant by that?

It means that if you need help to complete a challenge, it isn't really a legendary achievement. Just set up a gang and "zerg" it down with numbers. "MMO" is a tiresome excuse, especially since the biggest challenge is dealing with those random... Well, i'm sure there is no need to describe them. Were talking about raids and PvP after all.

Also yes, the things you need to do on the "legendary journey" aren't anything special or unique to begin with. Just a set of hoops to jump through for Zommoros' entertainment.

[Veprovina.4876]

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@"Shadowmoon.7986" said:Having full legendaries should mean you play all content.

Why? (Ugh, why is there some stupid minimum character limit all of a sudden?)

Probably because if something is "legendary", that means that, to get it, you have mastered all game modes.If you want to fully gear your character with legendaries, you have to do just that.

It's not much of a "legendary journey" if you zerg every challenge. Would make much more sense to be solo, not as an option, but as a requirement.

What does "zerg every challange" mean in this context?This is an MMO, of course you're going to be expected to handle challanges with other players, and you do as much, if not more solo stuff on your path to a legendary so can you please explain what you meant by that?

It means that if you need help to complete a challenge, it isn't really a legendary achievement. Just set up a gang and "zerg" it down with numbers. "MMO" is a tiresome excuse, especially since the biggest challenge is dealing with those random... Well, i'm sure there is no need to describe them. Were talking about raids and PvP after all.

Also yes, the things you need to do on the "legendary journey" aren't anything special or unique to begin with. Just a set of hoops to jump through for Zommoros' entertainment.

Ok, i mean, the "legendary journey" isn't anything special? I guess... It's as much arbitrary as pressing 1 on your keyboard to make your targeted mob's numbers go down. Doesn't mean people don't consider it an achievement after going through all those hoops.

MMO is a poor excuse lol? This is literally an MMO, what other argument do you need? :sweat_smile:For you, dealing with those "unmentionables" in PvP was the multiplayer journey, for others it might be "soaring above obstacles through power of friendship" or whatever lol, but in both cases, this is an MMO and it's going to involve other people in some way or another.

And if doing a legendary is arbitrary to you and nothing special, isn't pressing keyboard buttons to "run and fight" in game just as arbitrary? Why bother with that then let alone a legendary if it's all so meaningless? :sweat_smile:

But i feel like we've reached the crux of your issue with legendaries in this sentence:

the biggest challenge is dealing with those random... Well, i'm sure there is no need to describe them. Were talking about raids and PvP after all.

At no point before was this thread about raids or PvP until now so... You want another legendary trinket because you don't want to do Raids or PvP, but still want a legendary ring/amulet? :tongue:

Is this basically a "i don't want to do the thing but still want the reward" thread in disguise? :smiley:

Or do you already have all legendaries and you just hated Raids and PvP so much? In which case - you already got them, what's the problem, you don't have to repeat that content ever again if you don't want to.

[Yggranya.5201]

@"Veprovina.4876" said:Ok, i mean, the "legendary journey" isn't anything special? I guess... It's as much arbitrary as pressing 1 on your keyboard to make your targeted mob's numbers go down. Doesn't mean people don't consider it an achievement after going through all those hoops.

Really? Do you feel like checking things of a list is an achievement?

MMO is a poor excuse lol? This is literally an MMO, what other argument do you need? :sweat_smile:For you, dealing with those "unmentionables" in PvP was the multiplayer journey, for others it might be "soaring above obstacles through power of friendship" or whatever lol, but in both cases, this is an MMO and it's going to involve other people in some way or another.

Yes, but trying to shoehorn "cooperation" only works as far as people do it since there is no other way. And if someone slows down the way to the rewards? They are garbage and they NEED to know it. Or even if they aren't, why not try to get a rise out of them just for the sake of it? Especially popular with a group of friends to break the monotony that sums up raids. Ugh...

And if doing a legendary is arbitrary to you and nothing special, isn't pressing keyboard buttons to "run and fight" in game just as arbitrary? Why bother with that then let alone a legendary if it's all so meaningless? :sweat_smile:

Playing games is fun, but doing raids and PvP, or more accurately, dealing with the people who inhabit them is the antithesis of fun.

But i feel like we've reached the crux of your issue with legendaries in this sentence:

the biggest challenge is dealing with those random... Well, i'm sure there is no need to describe them. Were talking about raids and PvP after all.

At no point before was this thread about raids or PvP until now so... You want another legendary trinket because you don't want to do Raids or PvP, but still want a legendary ring/amulet? :tongue:

I don't have any and i will never have any as long as they are tied to those...game modes.

Is this basically a "i don't want to do the thing but still want the reward" thread in disguise? :smiley:

I didn't make the thread, dummy.

Or do you already have all legendaries and you just hated Raids and PvP so much? In which case - you already got them, what's the problem, you don't have to repeat that content ever again if you don't want to.

No, i don't have any legendaries, and i don't need to try something which i've already tried some 10-15 years ago more than enough to know that all the people there are the same in every game. Screw 'em.

Raids and PvP as a game mode might be fine, but the playerbase that they draw/make is total BS. it's only a "legenday journey" in the sense that it is a legendary journey into a persons ability to resist the logical want to despise your fellow man, and i just wanted people to know that.

Also no, i don't even really need them since i have full ascended sets, i just find that hackneyd "legendary journey" a disgusting joke.

[Veprovina.4876]

@Yggranya.5201 said:

@"Veprovina.4876" said:Ok, i mean, the "legendary journey" isn't anything special? I guess... It's as much arbitrary as pressing 1 on your keyboard to make your targeted mob's numbers go down. Doesn't mean people don't consider it an achievement after going through all those hoops.

Really? Do you feel like checking things of a list is an achievement?

Depends on how the list is formed. Quests in single player games are checking things off a list as well, but if they're presented in an interesting way, they don't seem like that.Now, sure, MMO list checking isn't exactly "peak storytelling" i'll grant you that, but seeing as how legendary is just a cosmetic/QoL improvement, they probably didn't want to have an elaborate drama of a story tied to it so that people don't feel obligated to do it just so that they can experience it. This way, no one's missing out on anything.

MMO is a poor excuse lol? This is literally an MMO, what other argument do you need? :sweat_smile:For you, dealing with those "unmentionables" in PvP was the multiplayer journey, for others it might be "soaring above obstacles through power of friendship" or whatever lol, but in both cases, this is an MMO and it's going to involve other people in some way or another.

Yes, but trying to shoehorn "cooperation" only works as far as people do it since there is no other way. And if someone slows down the way to the rewards? They are garbage and they NEED to know it. Or even if they aren't, why not try to get a rise out of them just for the sake of it? Especially popular with a group of friends to break the monotony that sums up raids. Ugh...

What would you have them do then? And bear in mind, it can't be the best thing ever in a game because then, people will feel they're missing out if they don't do it. And it has to involve other people, real players. What system would you use?

And if doing a legendary is arbitrary to you and nothing special, isn't pressing keyboard buttons to "run and fight" in game just as arbitrary? Why bother with that then let alone a legendary if it's all so meaningless? :sweat_smile:

Playing games is fun, but doing raids and PvP, or more accurately, dealing with the people who inhabit them is the antithesis of fun.

You still didn't address my point here at all. It's all arbitrary to induce a sense of progression, involvement and achievement in people, all games and their systems are arbitrary, be it open world, raids, skyrim or whatever. And since there's all sorts of people, not everyone will have the exact same combination of thigns that induce said emotions into them. So of course, if you don't want to Raid or PvP (and for clarification - i'm not particularly interested in those modes either), then just don't do it. But people who do, get their own version of a "legendary" reward out of it.

But i feel like we've reached the crux of your issue with legendaries in this sentence:

the biggest challenge is dealing with those random... Well, i'm sure there is no need to describe them. Were talking about raids and PvP after all.

At no point before was this thread about raids or PvP until now so... You want another legendary trinket because you don't want to do Raids or PvP, but still want a legendary ring/amulet? :tongue:

I don't have any and i will never have any as long as they are tied to those...game modes.

So in your opinion, does Anet have to introduce new legendaries for people who don't want to try/play all game modes (to stay on topic)?Or do you think they need to change those modes to accomodate more people?Or something else? I'm only asking because of the structure of the sentance, didn't really understand you there... Not saying it's your fault just, i don't get what you're saying here exactly. :smile:

Is this basically a "i don't want to do the thing but still want the reward" thread in disguise? :smiley:

I didn't make the thread, dummy.

Indeed you didn't! I thought you did lol, my mistake and apologies! :smile:

Or do you already have all legendaries and you just hated Raids and PvP so much? In which case - you already got them, what's the problem, you don't have to repeat that content ever again if you don't want to.

No, i don't have any legendaries, and i don't need to try something which i've already tried some 10-15 years ago more than enough to know that all the people there are the same in every game. Screw 'em.

Raids and PvP as a game mode might be fine, but the playerbase that they draw/make is total BS. it's only a "legenday journey" in the sense that it is a legendary journey into a persons ability to resist the logical want to despise your fellow man, and i just wanted people to know that.

Also no, i don't even really need them since i have full ascended sets, i just find that hackneyd "legendary journey" a disgusting joke.

Well that's true, legendaries are totally not needed. They're gold sink and convenience items. No one needs them.And i agree there's no real "legendary journey" in the literal sense of that word, there's nothing really legendary about legendary items as well. Some are tied to the lore i guess, but the method of obtaining them isn't really a "journey". Some "ticks off the checklist" have the potential for some passive environmental storytelling, though, in an MMO, that's really hard to do... But in the context of the meaning that GW2 gives to the word - as in legendary=convenience - then all you need to do to obtain it kinda fits all in all. You're basically doing a lot of busywork upfront so that you don't ever have to do it again (as you then obtain the ultimate item in the game that never needs upkeep).

[Astralporing.1957]

@Veprovina.4876 said:So in your opinion, does Anet have to introduce new legendaries for people who don't want to try/play all game modes (to stay on topic)?Yes, preferably.

Or do you think they need to change those modes to accomodate more people?If the above is not an option for some reason. It's better to offer more options than mess with the content, but if we can't have more options, then those that already exist should be made more accessible.

[lockhart.6048]

yeesh.... Some people are really sounding incredibly entitled and anti social. "I don't wanna group up with people for raids or fight PvP in a Massive MULTIPLAYER Online Roleplaying Game!"

... Yet all legendary weapons and 2 of the accessories can be obtained mostly through farming Open World PvE, with only the really easy to obtain Gift of Battle being the forced crux.

The only legendary I probably won't be getting is the raid ring, mostly because I am not that into raids but I have no problem with that.

[Sobx.1758]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:So in your opinion, does Anet have to introduce new legendaries for people who don't want to try/play all game modes (to stay on topic)?Yes, preferably.

Or do you think they need to change those modes to accomodate more people?If the above is not an option for some reason. It's better to offer more options than mess with the content, but if we can't have more options, then those that already exist should be made more accessible.

Disagreed, legendary items don't lock any content behind them and there's no reason to try and make everyone to get them if they don't want to learn the game/content/gamemodes in the first place.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:So in your opinion, does Anet have to introduce new legendaries for people who don't want to try/play all game modes (to stay on topic)?Yes, preferably.

Or do you think they need to change those modes to accomodate more people?If the above is not an option for some reason. It's better to offer more options than mess with the content, but if we can't have more options, then those that already exist should be made more accessible.

Disagreed, legendary items don't lock any content behind them and there's no reason to try and make everyone to get them if they don't want to learn the game/content/gamemodes in the first place.It's not to make everyone to get them. It's to make

those that want them

to get them. Hint: the list of those that want content-locked legendaries is not the same as list of people that want to play the content those legendaries are locked behind.

And if there's no reason to do anything for people that do not want to play the game/content/gamemodes as they are, why, pray tell me, were Raids introduced?

[Astralporing.1957]

@"lockhart.6048" said:yeesh.... Some people are really sounding incredibly entitled and anti social. "I don't wanna group up with people for raids or fight PvP in a Massive MULTIPLAYER Online Roleplaying Game!"You might want to look at my sig for the explanation to that. It's not that i don't want to group with people. It's that i want to be able to decide who i want to group/play with, and who i'd rather not.

[Veprovina.4876]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:So in your opinion, does Anet have to introduce new legendaries for people who don't want to try/play all game modes (to stay on topic)?Yes, preferably.

Or do you think they need to change those modes to accomodate more people?If the above is not an option for some reason. It's better to offer more options than mess with the content, but if we can't have more options, then those that already exist should be made more accessible.

Disagreed, legendary items don't lock any content behind them and there's no reason to try and make everyone to get them if they don't want to learn the game/content/gamemodes in the first place.It's not to make everyone to get them.

It's to make

those that want them

to get them

. Hint: the list of those that want content-locked legendaries is not the same as list of people that want to play the content those legendaries are locked behind.

And if there's no reason to do anything for people that do not want to play the game/content/gamemodes as they are, why, pray tell me, were Raids introduced?

Those that want to get them can already get them. They just need to play the mode the legendaries are given in.I don't do Raids. But if i will at one point want the Raid ring, i have the ability to get it, i will just need to learn Raiding for it.This just seems like a weak arguments honestly, artificially blowing the ability to get something (that's also not at all needed), out of proportion.It's not like you don't have the ability to play the modes and earn the rewards in them...

[Astralporing.1957]

@Veprovina.4876 said:It's not like you don't have the ability to play the modes and earn the rewards in them...I also have the ability to repeatedly smash my head into the concrete wall. Doesn't mean i would ever consider it a good idea, no matter the rewards.

[Veprovina.4876]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:It's not like you don't have the ability to play the modes and earn the rewards in them...I also have the ability to repeatedly smash my head into the concrete wall. Don't mean i would ever consider it a good idea, no matter the rewards.

That's a bit disingenuous to be honest, but yeah, if you don't consider it a good idea, and there's a reward behind it, that just means you won't get the reward.I'd argue your case if the reward in question is something you absolutely need to be honest, but since it's just a convenience item, the walls put in place are jusified.

[Sobx.1758]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@Sobx.1758 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Veprovina.4876" said:So in your opinion, does Anet have to introduce new legendaries for people who don't want to try/play all game modes (to stay on topic)?Yes, preferably.

Or do you think they need to change those modes to accomodate more people?If the above is not an option for some reason. It's better to offer more options than mess with the content, but if we can't have more options, then those that already exist should be made more accessible.

Disagreed, legendary items don't lock any content behind them and there's no reason to try and make everyone to get them if they don't want to learn the game/content/gamemodes in the first place.It's not to make everyone to get them. It's to make

those that want them

to get them. Hint: the list of those that want content-locked legendaries is not the same as list of people that want to play the content those legendaries are locked behind.

Hint: those that want them can already get them by learning the content they claim is "so hard", but really isn't.Meanwhile you just pretend everyone should get everything just because they logged in. Well, nope. This is not how games work nor is it how they should work.

And if there's no reason to do anything for people that do not want to play the game/content/gamemodes as they are, why, pray tell me, were Raids introduced?

What?

[Linken.6345]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"lockhart.6048" said:yeesh.... Some people are really sounding incredibly entitled and anti social. "I don't wanna group up with people for raids or fight PvP in a Massive MULTIPLAYER Online Roleplaying Game!"You might want to look at my sig for the explanation to that. It's not that i don't want to group with people. It's that i want to be able to decide who i want to group/play with, and who i'd rather not.

The gather up the ones you want to play with and complete the content required?

[Astralporing.1957]

@"Sobx.1758" said:Hint: those that want them can already get them by learning the content they claim is "so hard", but really isn't.And? What's the point? I mean, what the game gains in trying to push players into content they do not like?Content is supposed to exist for the sake of the players, not the other way around. Trying to make it so the players are something that you use to prop up the content is like trying to put the cart before the horse.

Meanwhile you just pretend everyone should get everything just because they logged in.No, that's only how you try to present my stance. In an extremely biased, and completely untrue way.

And if there's no reason to do anything for people that do not want to play the game/content/gamemodes as they are, why, pray tell me, were Raids introduced?

What?Well, it's apparently completely okay for the game to change for the sake of some players, but not okay if it's for the sake of some

other

players.

[The Boz.2038]

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, THERE

[yann.1946]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:Hint: those

that want them

can already get them by learning the content they claim is "so hard", but really isn't.And? What's the point? I mean, what the game gains in trying to push players into content they do not like?Content is supposed to exist for the sake of the players, not the other way around. Trying to make it so the players are something that you use to prop up the content is like trying to put the cart before the horse.

while i sort of disagree with sobx, the point of pushing people into different content types is that people are pretty bad in general in knowing themselves. So these pushes into different content types increase the amount of total fun (as in people learning they enjoy content x,y,z)

Meanwhile you just pretend everyone should get everything just because they logged in.No, that's only how

you

try to present my stance. In an extremely biased, and completely untrue way.

And if there's no reason to do anything for people that do not want to play the game/content/gamemodes as they are, why, pray tell me, were Raids introduced?

What?Well, it's apparently completely okay for the game to change for the sake of some players, but not okay if it's for the sake of some

other

players.

This is a weird take form me, as i understood it raids where added for the people who liked GW2, instanced content and wanted something more. (on top of being marketing for hot ofcourse.).

[Sobx.1758]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:Hint: those

that want them

can already get them by learning the content they claim is "so hard", but really isn't.And? What's the point? I mean, what the game gains in trying to push players into content they do not like?Content is supposed to exist for the sake of the players, not the other way around. Trying to make it so the players are something that you use to prop up the content is like trying to put the cart before the horse.

What's the point? Playing the game's content. You don't need to if you don't want to, but then you get no rewards. That's not a new concept and there's nothing wrong with that.

Meanwhile you just pretend everyone should get everything just because they logged in.No, that's only how

you

try to present my stance. In an extremely biased, and completely untrue way.

Then go learn the game's content and stop pretending it's somehow unreachable for you for some weird reason.You also claim you don't play it "because you want to be able to choose who you're playing with" -luckily you can make your own squad with people you want to play and then play through the content, so that's just another weird "BUT THE GAME DOESN'T LET ME!" pseudo-excuse.

And if there's no reason to do anything for people that do not want to play the game/content/gamemodes as they are, why, pray tell me, were Raids introduced?

What?Well, it's apparently completely okay for the game to change for the sake of some players, but not okay if it's for the sake of some

other

players.

"New content has been added to the game" has nothing to do with what you (or I) previously wrote, not sure what point you're trying to make here. You think anet didn't add raids because they wanted to (...expand the game // ...try something new for their game // ...whatever else), but because... they made some poll for the players to pick their content and then minority of the community somehow won that poll, so they added that content specifically for that minority? Like... what.

[Astralporing.1957]

@Sobx.1758 said:What's the point? Playing the game's content.Yes. Precisely. Why is that specific content so special players just have to play it instead of some other content? The game doesn't profit from it in any way. the game profits from you playing in the content you like, not in the content someone else unsuccesfully tries to persuade you to like.

Like i said, the content should be for the players, not the players for the content.

@yann.1946 said:while i sort of disagree with sobx, the point of pushing people into different content types is that people are pretty bad in general in knowing themselves. So these pushes into different content types increase the amount of total fun (as in people learning they enjoy content x,y,z)There's a point in enticing players to jump into a content to see whether they like it. There's no point in trying to keep them there long after they've decided about whether they do, however. That can actually decrease the amount of total fun - because some types of content can actually decrease the amount of fun for many players.

This is a weird take form me, as i understood it raids where added for the people who liked GW2, instanced content and wanted something more. (on top of being marketing for hot ofcourse.).Well, why then the idea of adding something for people that want legendaries and want more of them without forcing them to play a content they find unfun is somehow different?

@Sobx.1758 said:"New content has been added to the game" has nothing to do with what you (or I) previously wrote, not sure what point you're trying to make here. You think anet didn't add raids because they wanted to (...expand the game // ...try something new for their game // ...whatever else), but because... they made some poll for the players to pick their content and then minority of the community somehow won that poll, so they added that content specifically for that minority? Like... what.First they weren't intending to add raids into the game at all, and were even saying that adding an 8-man content (8, because that was the size of instances in GW1, so some people asked for that) is a bad idea, because 5 is the optimal size for group content according to their data. But the small but vocal group of players kept asking over and over and over again about both raids and bigger size instances, and suddenly Anet announced raids. As 10-man size content. For which they had to either break or circumvent some of already existing game paradigms to make them even work.

You can draw your own conclusions from that, but for me believing that it had nothing to do with those vocal players on the reddit and forums whose voices drowned out all those not too enthusiastic about the idea (but after content actually went in turned out to be a relatively small minority unable to sustain the content longterm) seems quite naive.

[Sobx.1758]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:What's the point? Playing the game's content.Yes. Precisely. Why is that specific content so special players just have to play it instead of some other content? The game doesn't profit from it in any way.

Like i said, the content should be for the players, not the players for the content.

Because this is what the game is, not sure why you keep pivoting into "sPeCiaL pLayErs" all the time when that's not even part of the discussion. If anyone wants "special treatment" here, it's pretty clearly you, literally trying to redefine what the game is "because you said so". Want the rewards? Play the game. Don't want to play the game? Don't get the rewards. Pretty simple, universal and long standing concept.

Lucky for you, you can play "with whomever you want" through that content despite you claiming otherwise. You can also not play throguh the content you don't want to. You can also not receive rewards for that content you don't want to play, because it doesn't lock any other content for you that you actually "want to play".

Also you skipped most of the post for some reason :(

[Astralporing.1957]

@Sobx.1758 said:Because this is what the game isThat's not an answer.

Want the rewards? Play the game.You are speaking as if there was only that part of the game that counts, when it's a niche even within it.

Don't want to play the game?We're talking here about the players that do want to play the game. Just not that niche part you do.

The game gains absolutely nothing from telling players that do play the game, that they don't have to do it.

[Sobx.1758]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"Sobx.1758" said:Because this is what the game isThat's not an answer.

How is it not an answer?

Want the rewards? Play the game.You are speaking as if there was only that part of the game that counts, when it's a niche even within it.

No, maybe try responding to what I write instead of what you apparently want me to write, when I don't.

Don't want to play the game?We're talking here about the players that

do

want to play the game. Just not that niche part you do.

I play pretty much all of the game's content, hardly "niche I want to play", but keep shooting blanks at me I guess.

The game gains absolutely nothing from telling players that do play the game, that they don't have to do it.

The game doesn't need to tell that to the players, it's just a fact. They don't need to play it if they clearly don't want it for whatever real or artificial reason. They also don't need legendary items for anything for them to play other conent they want. You're looking for a problems where there's none.

Pretty funny how you keep skipping 90% of the posts.

[yann.1946]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@yann.1946 said:while i sort of disagree with sobx, the point of pushing people into different content types is that people are pretty bad in general in knowing themselves. So these pushes into different content types increase the amount of total fun (as in people learning they enjoy content x,y,z)There's a point in enticing players to jump into a content to see whether they like it. There's no point in trying to keep them there long after they've decided about whether they do, however. That can actually decrease the amount of total fun - because some types of content can actually decrease the amount of fun for many players.

Ofcourse but the gap between just enticing or keeping them to long is highly subjective and variable. So i don't know where one would draw the line. Also do you think exclusive rewards are a bad thing ( as rewards you have to spent a lot of time in a specific place to acquire) .

On the second thing,its about how much fun is lost by pushing some people in content they don't like vs how much fun is added by people discovering more content they enjoy. Every puch to any activity will decrease the fun for some people, but where merely interested in the totality of all fun. (to be fair anet is probably more interested in total engagement then fun, but that another discussion entirely.)

This is a weird take form me, as i understood it raids where added for the people who liked GW2, instanced content and wanted something more. (on top of being marketing for hot ofcourse.).Well, why then the idea of adding something for people that want legendaries and want more of them without forcing them to play a content they find unfun is somehow different?

I was merely responding to the claim that its okay to change the game for one but not for the other, but i don't think raids where that change to the game. They where a continuation of things which where already their. I would argue that HoT is more where the changes to the game where.

As i said earlier i don't really agree with a lot of the points that sobx made, i don't think the fact then everyone theoretically can get leg Armour is a good reason to not expend its availability. (i do have other reasons why i feel it would be a bad idea atm , and not all of them are raid related.)

[mindcircus.1506]

@"yann.1946" said:On the second thing,its about how much fun is lost by pushing some people in content they don't like vs how much fun is added by people discovering more content they enjoy. Every puch to any activity will decrease the fun for some people, but where merely interested in the totality of all fun. (to be fair anet is probably more interested in total engagement then fun, but that another discussion entirely.)This.So much this.I discovered WvW because I wanted a GoB.So I went in without expectation or preconception and over time it became one of my favorite things to do in this game. More importantly I met a lot of great people in this game and had some laughs. For a large number of people the game mode is primarly a fun social thing to do.Many of the friends I made in WvW came there at first chasing the rewards that are dangled in the game mode: a GoB, a Warclaw, even just completing dailies without having to deal with the absurd zerging on "Metrica Event Completer". day. Plenty of those people would join my guild's discord, hop in comms and chill out. Many ended up staying if only for the lols. Few of them ever saw it as the sadistic punishment by Anet or the "anti player" behaviour it gets painted as on these forums.

Anyways.... getting the data on how this process of requiring a player to WvW for their legendary impacts churn wouldn't be hard.I'm sure Anet has the numbers and if it were as bad as the chicken littles claim we would have seen a change long ago.