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It's me, or toxicity increases every year?


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It might not be toxicity that got you kicked at all...I've noticed some behavior among gw2 players maybe most mmo players are affected by this disease..."The mob mentality" :1) When someone starts a kick vote, ppl jump in and vote(especially if something went wrong). They want someone to blame and point at someone and direct attention (so they can hide their mistakes)2) when one guy leaves a party or a squad, he always takes 3 more along with him.. it's more of a ritual...3) communication can make either a positive or negative impression of yourself among others regardless of the context. If things are not going as they expected, your communication will be interpreted as critisism.4) sometimes if one feels that what they're doing is the right thing and all others are doing it wrong, their words most of the time will be like looking down on other ppl, patronizing the others

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I have not experienced toxicity in guildwars 2 for quite some time personally. Maybe because of what sort of content im playing, who knows. But toxicity and online gaming is there since the beginning. Especially in pvp. Long time ago (2003,2004) i played quake 3 online, and all sorts of raging weirdos who could not stand loss where there. In gw 1 pvp in the golden days the same. Could not be bothered to play pvp in guildwars 2. The pvp modes over there dont interest me compared to earlier mentioned, and at a certain age it did not interest me anymore.

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@Bolbo Baggins.8594 said:I have not experienced toxicity in guildwars 2 for quite some time personally. Maybe because of what sort of content im playing, who knows.

Yep. Players in competetive game modes are more likely to show their true face in the heat of action. It's one of the reasons I stopped playing PvP. My nerves are more precious to me than the potential fun aspects of a game or game mode.

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Seems like a small data set to make such a generalized comment. If those guys have been in the game for 35,000 AP they've been around a long time. Did they suddenly just change and become toxic or were they always toxic and you just met them for the first time.

The problem with your supposition is that it's like RNG. Without enough data points, you can't extropolate any kind of meaningful results. This is one of the big issues with any kind of statistical analysis.

I met some people that were toxic six years ago, and some five years ago and some four years ago. I don't meet that many by percentage and never have. I think the entire premise is flawed.

Furthermore we only have your word about how you came off. You may think you weren't offensive and things that you've said might have been taken as offensive. It happened to me recently on reddit. Someone called me out for saying something that wasn't what I was trying to say at all.

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I've met a really toxic trio in fracs about a year ago (racism, kicking a player before final boss because he was from the middle east). Never before or after have I seen anything similar. So by my data set (1) the game was the most toxic 1 year ago.

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Don't see the problem here, they can create their own group and kick whomever they want.People kick for all sort of things, low DPS, bad dodging, bad gameplay, bad attitude...

This time the kicked one just happened to be you after saying something that I'd personally percieve as passive-aggressive. The condescending tone of your post and the way you call others "trash" makes we wonder, though.

Want my opinion? Just create your own group next time, or leave the group sooner.

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Which is more toxic?Privately, in a party, saying something another finds offensive, and kicking...or publicly calling someone(s) names and insulting them on a forum?

I think we'd need to hear both sides, and maybe have chat logs to determine what is/was or what is not/was not toxic.

Personally, I've not come across any toxicity (unless once being kicked from a party after the content was finished is consider toxic), but then I almost always play with /map turned off. /shrug

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@Sileeent.5861 said:After the boss I wrote nothing else than „Well, it was a good idea to swap!“ ..and who would disagree in such a situation? Then a hurricane of toxicity hit me with a kick from the party at the end. They seriously thought it was their own performance! In 8 years I've honestly never seen something like that, not in this form. You should have seen their performance. If someone is just arrogant, I don't care. But you should also be able to afford arrogance. I mean you can't be arrogant when you're trash.Complains about the ToxicityCalls other people trash

10/10 internet logic.

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@mindcircus.1506 said:

@Sileeent.5861 said:After the boss I wrote nothing else than „Well, it was a good idea to swap!“ ..and who would disagree in such a situation? Then a hurricane of toxicity hit me with a kick from the party at the end. They seriously thought it was their own performance! In 8 years I've honestly never seen something like that, not in this form. You should have seen their performance. If someone is just arrogant, I don't care. But you should also be able to afford arrogance. I mean you can't be arrogant when you're trash.Complains about the ToxicityCalls other people trash

10/10 internet logic.

lmao, seriously.

@"Voltekka.2375" said:Its not you (if we only take your story into account). People apparently hate being told they're bad when they know they're being bad.Go figure.

What do you mean "it's not him"? If I join a squad and I see/think they're bad and I don't want to bother retrying after another fail, should I...a) Tell them they're terrible, "but hey, maybe I'll just singlehandedly carry your noob-butts, so no worries" (...and then get offended because SO UNEXPECTEDLY people didn't like what I said and didn't want to play with me anymore)b) Say "thanks guys, I'm out" (you don't even need an excuse btw but if you feel you need one... just say you're taking a break, w/e), leave, find another group and play with players on the level you want to play?

If you think there's no difference between these two behaviors, then you might not be as "non-tox" as you think you are. And don't get me wrong, nobody said you'll go to jail for the first option, just... you know... stop lying to yourself about not being the firestarter.

Duh, even if op ACTUALLY WANTED TO STAY AND HELP, all he had to say is "wait, I'll swap to heal/support/another class" and probably nobody would care.

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@Malitias.8453 said:

@"Veprovina.4876" said:A simple "We did it!" instead of implying you carried them would have sufficed. Even if you did technically carry them (from what we know of your side of the story).Acknowledge your party, even if they didn't do much, or had a hard time through the game. Achievement points have nothing to do with someone's ability, and you don't know why someone may struggle.

If that's all that happened, no previous conversations or anything, then it may have been a slight overreaction on their part, i mean, i've been in parties where someone switched, told the exact same thing and no one had a problem with it.

But i suspect there's more to it than just what you said.

In any case, this all could have been easily avoided if you just used "we" instead of "i".

Hi there, noob here. I don't think it's a "slight" overreaction.I don't really see the point of being polite at the expense of honesty.How am I supposed to know I am doing badly if no one is telling me? You can tell people they need to improve at something without being hurtful.Critique is important for a group if you face a challenge you can't seem to overcome and being able to understand critique as that and not as an insult is a basis anyone should possess in order to be a functional decent human being. Doesn't matter if in a video game or in real-life.

A few days ago I did fractals for the first time and specifically searched for a group that said "anyone is welcome" and made it clear I haven't done any of them before and just wanted to try them out. One of them explained to me how it works and I still made some stupid mistakes, most likely because I was a bit nervous making these mistakes.He still carried the fight. Afterwards he said I panic roll too much and should try to time my aegis better for blocking attacks instead just using it for the heal.I thanked him for the advice and carrying and that's it.In a situation like OP described there are only two reasonable reactions to what he did.Either respond with something like "good call" or even better, ask for advice.

I see nothing wrong with offering polite advice on mechanics when players are obviously failing them. However, telling players I'm carrying them (true or not!) or otherwise making it clear that they are terrible and I resent their impact on my gaming session is not productive. It's simply venting my frustration on others in an attempt to make them feel the way I'm feeling. It's generally a successful strategy, too! The result is drama. As I said, I just leave the group before that's ever an issue. I don't need it.

If you truly wish to improve, you'll take advice when it's given and seek out knowledge on your own. None of that requires having people tell you that you suck. Or, at least, it doesn't for me!

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@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:A simple "We did it!" instead of implying you carried them would have sufficed. Even if you did technically carry them (from what we know of your side of the story).Acknowledge your party, even if they didn't do much, or had a hard time through the game. Achievement points have nothing to do with someone's ability, and you don't know why someone may struggle.

If that's all that happened, no previous conversations or anything, then it may have been a slight overreaction on their part, i mean, i've been in parties where someone switched, told the exact same thing and no one had a problem with it.

But i suspect there's more to it than just what you said.

In any case, this all could have been easily avoided if you just used "we" instead of "i".

Hi there, noob here. I don't think it's a "slight" overreaction.I don't really see the point of being polite at the expense of honesty.How am I supposed to know I am doing badly if no one is telling me? You can tell people they need to improve at something without being hurtful.Critique is important for a group if you face a challenge you can't seem to overcome and being able to understand critique as that and not as an insult is a basis anyone should possess in order to be a functional decent human being. Doesn't matter if in a video game or in real-life.

A few days ago I did fractals for the first time and specifically searched for a group that said "anyone is welcome" and made it clear I haven't done any of them before and just wanted to try them out. One of them explained to me how it works and I still made some stupid mistakes, most likely because I was a bit nervous making these mistakes.He still carried the fight. Afterwards he said I panic roll too much and should try to time my aegis better for blocking attacks instead just using it for the heal.I thanked him for the advice and carrying and that's it.In a situation like OP described there are only two reasonable reactions to what he did.Either respond with something like "good call" or even better, ask for advice.

Can you be more transparent on whose side you're taking?Cause the way you worded your posts is very confusing.You quote me and start the post with "hello, noob here". Is that implying i called someone a noob?Also
slight
is in quotation marks. Does that mean you think the reaction was too severe or not severe enough?And are you the person OP is talking about in their post or what? What's your story have to do with anything?Cause you worded everything that it all contradicts itself so i don't exactly know what point you're arguing...

Why does one need to pick a side? Isn't it obvious? Both sides were in the wrong. The reaction was in no way justified, but it's also true that they never would have reacted this way if they hadn't been insulted first. Avoid the problem. If you're at the point where you feel justified in insulting another player over their performance in a video game, just leave the group. It's the 100% toxicity-free option!

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understanding is a three edged sword. Your side, their side and the truth.I do not know their side. Only yours.To be fair, your reaction had some elements in it that invoke toxicity (even though it was unintended, but that is mostly the case with toxicity).

When communicating, it is important to understand what you want to communicate.I do believe that it was yout intention to give them feedback that they needed a healer just cause they where not fit for the fight. Atleast that is what you where seeing in my experience.

There are many ways to tell someone he/she sucks. but only a few are good and even these can result in toxicity.The first question you should ask yourself is wether or not a remark from your side will result in or contribute to a change in the other player quality. Given the amount of AP's and how much time it takes to accumulate such an amount, the answer should be that the chance is very slim.

If you do want to contribute, I would recommend being direct, concise and practical. So nothing ground breaking, but something that can be used directly. I think you allready did that by pointing out about the special action skill.

I know that they didn't use this tidbit of information, but as a sender of feedback it is not your responsability not concern if they do or not. Beyond that I wpuld go back to a very old saying "Speech is silver, Silence is golden"

I do not say you have the blame in this. They should not overreact so much towards someone who stood by them when things got messy. It happens often that people just ragequit a party, but the feedback you where sending could have been more effective by sticking to the things said before and the silence. Saying nothing also gives a bit of feedback. It often happens someone gives positive feedback (like gg). Not saying such thing is also a way of communicating.

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Thank you everyone, some of you gave me really good feedback to look at some of the things from a different perspective. Communication, especially in a small, limited chat window can lead to a lot of misunderstandings, even more so if you don't have to communicate in your native language. Understanding what has been written always depends on the reader's perception. Nowadays, many people try to pretend we humans are all the same, but no two people are alike. Even twins think completely differently about many things.

I just wrote the 2 comments that I put in quotes. I have not confronted anyone with everything I have written about them here. I wasn't even aware that what I said could be perceived in such a negative way... For me it's just a game, no stress and I'm not a pro in every game and personally I don't even have a problem describing myself as a newbie (in a less friendly writing style, which is censored here) in such games. But some others may already feel attacked by much smaller things. So, in future, I'll try to speak a little differently about some things that make me sound less self-centered.

I think it was a good idea to discuss it here. I mean, I could have gotten upset about these guys, or I'll share my experience, get feedback and try to be self-reflective of the situation and learn from it. You can't fix everything and make it better, but on the other hand, you can always work on yourself. ^^

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@Sileeent.5861 said:It's me, or toxicity increases every year?

I'm a patient person. You don't see me toxic whatever happens. It doesn't matter how bad you play, that you have no clue what a breakbar is, or if you are always too stupid to dodge an attack whose animation is displayed for 3 seconds before it occurs... even if this all happens even though you have already reached over 35k achievement points and someone would assume that all along the way you learned some basics. Not even then am I rude to you, I'll try to help instead!

What I wrote applies to 3 guys at a party and 2 had over 35k achievement points. As they keep failing and dying, you can imagine how many times we had to restart all boss fights. At some point I had clearly enough, but I just told them that „I swap to Heal Scourge to carry, before we will hang out here even longer“. The boss was now pretty easy, as expected having a Heal Scourge. Nevertheless, I had to rez them all several times. They were totally overwhelmed with dodging few simple attacks, and although they could even use the Special Action Key every few seconds to dodge a third time. But I didn't say anything about it. Not a single word!

After the boss I wrote nothing else than „Well, it was a good idea to swap!“ ..and who would disagree in such a situation? Then a hurricane of toxicity hit me with a kick from the party at the end. They seriously thought it was their own performance! In 8 years I've honestly never seen something like that, not in this form. You should have seen their performance. If someone is just arrogant, I don't care. But you should also be able to afford arrogance. I mean you can't be arrogant when you're trash.

I didn't even said anything to them. I'm a kind person, maybe I just think my part for myself, but I'll try to help instead of being toxic. So what did I do to get treated like this and ended up getting kicked out of a party like this? It doesn't hurt me, but I'd like to understand! But that will probably remain a mystery. ^^

1) You told them you were going to carry them2) You boasted that it was a good job you switched character

If you cannot see your own arrogance here I don't know what to tell you, I'm not surprised they kicked you actually...

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@Vavume.8065 said:

@Sileeent.5861 said:It's me, or toxicity increases every year?

I'm a patient person. You don't see me toxic whatever happens. It doesn't matter how bad you play, that you have no clue what a breakbar is, or if you are always too stupid to dodge an attack whose animation is displayed for 3 seconds before it occurs... even if this all happens even though you have already reached over 35k achievement points and someone would assume that all along the way you learned some basics. Not even then am I rude to you, I'll try to help instead!

What I wrote applies to 3 guys at a party and 2 had over 35k achievement points. As they keep failing and dying, you can imagine how many times we had to restart all boss fights. At some point I had clearly enough, but I just told them that
„I swap to Heal Scourge to carry, before we will hang out here even longer“
. The boss was now pretty easy, as expected having a Heal Scourge. Nevertheless, I had to rez them all several times. They were totally overwhelmed with dodging few simple attacks, and although they could even use the Special Action Key every few seconds to dodge a third time. But I didn't say anything about it. Not a single word!

After the boss I wrote nothing else than „Well, it was a good idea to swap!“ ..and who would disagree in such a situation? Then a hurricane of toxicity hit me with a kick from the party at the end. They seriously thought it was their own performance! In 8 years I've honestly never seen something like that, not in this form. You should have seen their performance. If someone is just arrogant, I don't care. But you should also be able to afford arrogance. I mean you can't be arrogant when you're trash.

I didn't even said anything to them. I'm a kind person, maybe I just think my part for myself, but I'll try to help instead of being toxic. So what did I do to get treated like this and ended up getting kicked out of a party like this? It doesn't hurt me, but I'd like to understand! But that will probably remain a mystery. ^^

1) You told them you were going to carry them2) You boasted that it was a good job you switched character

If you cannot see your own arrogance here I don't know what to tell you, I'm not surprised they kicked you actually...

Don't worry, I already understood what you read here...

All you see is „Hell, I am the king here!“ ... but that wasn't nearly that was I was trying to say.What I simply tried to say is „Heal Scourge made it easier no matter who played him!“

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@"Sileeent.5861" said:I think it was a good idea to discuss it here. I mean, I could have gotten upset about these monkeys (just to be a little rude to describe them), or I'll share my experience, get feedback and try to be self-reflective of the situation and learn from it.You could always start by not calling people you think don't play as well as you do "monkeys" on a public forum.

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It's easier to just leave and find another group, and don't say anything.

People have many misconceptions and just follow builds off of websites because they can't think. Like, dps is great... if you can stay alive!!! So you might have to swap some gear if going full zerk doesn't compliment the group, but people don't want to swap and would rather you or someone else change. Thank god we can't see one another's gear otherwise it would be more of a toxic fest.

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@mindcircus.1506 said:

@"Sileeent.5861" said:I think it was a good idea to discuss it here. I mean, I could have gotten upset about these monkeys (just to be a little rude to describe them), or I'll share my experience, get feedback and try to be self-reflective of the situation and learn from it.You could always start by not calling people you think don't play as well as you do "monkeys" on a public forum.

I didn't really call them monkeys, just tried to explain a mindset that I tried to avoid with this topic here...

I've edited this part to avoid further misunderstandings. Perhaps that was a bit too out of the box, which is more likely to be misunderstood in text form than in verbal communication. ^^

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GW2 is one of the least toxic games I have played. That of course is before steam. I'm not sure how it will fair after the steam release.A mountain of something will fall from the ceiling that's for sure. We will have to wait and see what that something is. Let's hope it's love.

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I don't know if people have become more toxic. I still remember back in 2015, where people called you names and kicked you from parties for playing the Ranger class (wvw, dungeons, fractals - nobody wanted us anywhere xD). If anything, I think the community has become a lot more accepting of the communities tendencies to take their favorite underperforming builds (BEARBOW SOLDIERS DPS DRUID) and lack of mechanical skill or game knowledge.

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@Westenev.5289 said:I don't know if people have become more toxic. I still remember back in 2015, where people called you names and kicked you from parties for playing the Ranger class (wvw, dungeons, fractals - nobody wanted us anywhere xD). If anything, I think the community has become a lot more accepting of the communities tendencies to take their favorite underperforming builds (BEARBOW SOLDIERS DPS DRUID) and lack of mechanical skill or game knowledge.

I think there's also been some power creep in terms of the level of easy support and DPS, but I'm not an expert on the subject, so that could just be my impression. My thinking is that most people aren't going to split hairs if they have to carry 1 or 2 players, as long as it isn't preventing the group from succeeding. Those who wish to speed clear know by now that they need to make that intention clear or they will not get the group they're looking for. It's pretty rare that I experience toxicity directly in fractals. I do hear about it on the forums a lot, though!

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@Malitias.8453 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:A simple "We did it!" instead of implying you carried them would have sufficed. Even if you did technically carry them (from what we know of your side of the story).Acknowledge your party, even if they didn't do much, or had a hard time through the game. Achievement points have nothing to do with someone's ability, and you don't know why someone may struggle.

If that's all that happened, no previous conversations or anything, then it may have been a slight overreaction on their part, i mean, i've been in parties where someone switched, told the exact same thing and no one had a problem with it.

But i suspect there's more to it than just what you said.

In any case, this all could have been easily avoided if you just used "we" instead of "i".

Hi there, noob here. I don't think it's a "slight" overreaction.I don't really see the point of being polite at the expense of honesty.How am I supposed to know I am doing badly if no one is telling me? You can tell people they need to improve at something without being hurtful.Critique is important for a group if you face a challenge you can't seem to overcome and being able to understand critique as that and not as an insult is a basis anyone should possess in order to be a functional decent human being. Doesn't matter if in a video game or in real-life.

A few days ago I did fractals for the first time and specifically searched for a group that said "anyone is welcome" and made it clear I haven't done any of them before and just wanted to try them out. One of them explained to me how it works and I still made some stupid mistakes, most likely because I was a bit nervous making these mistakes.He still carried the fight. Afterwards he said I panic roll too much and should try to time my aegis better for blocking attacks instead just using it for the heal.I thanked him for the advice and carrying and that's it.In a situation like OP described there are only two reasonable reactions to what he did.Either respond with something like "good call" or even better, ask for advice.

Can you be more transparent on whose side you're taking?Cause the way you worded your posts is very confusing.You quote me and start the post with "hello, noob here". Is that implying i called someone a noob?Also
slight
is in quotation marks. Does that mean you think the reaction was too severe or not severe enough?And are you the person OP is talking about in their post or what? What's your story have to do with anything?Cause you worded everything that it all contradicts itself so i don't exactly know what point you're arguing...

I thought it's pretty clear. I'm a noob rn. I'm new to the game. Noob, newb, newbie. You know. The meaning of the word. ^^'That's all there is to that.I put quotation marks on "slight" to emphasize which part specifically I disagree with. It's a massive overreaction.My story has something to do with it because I've had a somewhat similar experience, in the sense that one person pretty much carried the group, but from the other perspective and the reaction of the people OP was playing with made absolutely no sense to me, even from their perspective.I don't think I am contradicting myself, I think you are trying to read something between the lines when there's nothing there. No offense.

Ah, i see now. Thank yo for expanding upon your post. To be fair, i wrote that post at 5 AM so that's probably a large part of the reason i didn't get what you were saying. :tongue:

Anyway, yeah, so we agree then basically. There was no need to overreact at a simple "good thing i swtiched", and in my opinion if OP wants to avoid that, just "we everything". Especially if it's pugs and you don't know the people.

And indeed, i was also in a simmilar situations, i put up LFG an "all wellcome, first time T4, expect suckage" group, and people with not even enough AR joined, and it was the most fun in fractals i've had in a while lol. It was super hard due to not everyone having even close to enough AR, and we kinda did get carried by one person (who also had less AR than i had lol). That person was like "i got this", and one particular epic moment was when all of us were wiped and the "carry person" was downed, and managed to kill the boss in downed state.

And you know what never happened throughout the entire experience? Any negativity. Everyone was 100% on board that this was a joke run, and everyone was praising the person who carried, "you go", "MVP of the run!", "you can do it", and i don't exactly remember if that person bragged or not, but no one would have exploded for no reason if they did. Because they were obviously better than all of us. And that's ok.

So i don't understand how do people flip the F out on mostly benign comments like "good thing i switched".But like i said, to avoid hurting people's feelings, use "we". People like to be included lol i guess...

@AliamRationem.5172 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:A simple "We did it!" instead of implying you carried them would have sufficed. Even if you did technically carry them (from what we know of your side of the story).Acknowledge your party, even if they didn't do much, or had a hard time through the game. Achievement points have nothing to do with someone's ability, and you don't know why someone may struggle.

If that's all that happened, no previous conversations or anything, then it may have been a slight overreaction on their part, i mean, i've been in parties where someone switched, told the exact same thing and no one had a problem with it.

But i suspect there's more to it than just what you said.

In any case, this all could have been easily avoided if you just used "we" instead of "i".

Hi there, noob here. I don't think it's a "slight" overreaction.I don't really see the point of being polite at the expense of honesty.How am I supposed to know I am doing badly if no one is telling me? You can tell people they need to improve at something without being hurtful.Critique is important for a group if you face a challenge you can't seem to overcome and being able to understand critique as that and not as an insult is a basis anyone should possess in order to be a functional decent human being. Doesn't matter if in a video game or in real-life.

A few days ago I did fractals for the first time and specifically searched for a group that said "anyone is welcome" and made it clear I haven't done any of them before and just wanted to try them out. One of them explained to me how it works and I still made some stupid mistakes, most likely because I was a bit nervous making these mistakes.He still carried the fight. Afterwards he said I panic roll too much and should try to time my aegis better for blocking attacks instead just using it for the heal.I thanked him for the advice and carrying and that's it.In a situation like OP described there are only two reasonable reactions to what he did.Either respond with something like "good call" or even better, ask for advice.

Can you be more transparent on whose side you're taking?Cause the way you worded your posts is very confusing.You quote me and start the post with "hello, noob here". Is that implying i called someone a noob?Also
slight
is in quotation marks. Does that mean you think the reaction was too severe or not severe enough?And are you the person OP is talking about in their post or what? What's your story have to do with anything?Cause you worded everything that it all contradicts itself so i don't exactly know what point you're arguing...

Why does one need to pick a side? Isn't it obvious? Both sides were in the wrong. The reaction was in no way justified, but it's also true that they never would have reacted this way if they hadn't been insulted first. Avoid the problem. If you're at the point where you feel justified in insulting another player over their performance in a video game, just leave the group. It's the 100% toxicity-free option!

True, no need to pick sides, i was just very tired when i wrote that post lol. :tongue:

Agreed, that was an overreaction, and as i said, we only have a part of the story, so who knows what else might have been said. To be fair to OP, it might not have even been intentional, just something that people took offense to, despite OP's benign intentions... So like i said, just avoid the problem as best as you can to not be insulting, even when you don't mean to, and if someone does take offense, well, people are offended by everything so i guess it's inevitable, just move on lol. You don't have to be friends with everyone anyway.

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