Soulbeast Feedback - Dagger — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Soulbeast Feedback - Dagger

ProtoMarcus.7649ProtoMarcus.7649 Member ✭✭✭
edited October 6, 2017 in Ranger

It's been a week since Path of Fire™ has launched and I've had plenty of time to play around with the Soulbeast.
Lemme just start and mention that despite its flaws, bugs and necessity for lots of tweaks, I really like it, and I think ArenaNet is in the right direction in terms of theme and concept.
This specific thread will be exclusively related to the Dagger Main Hand weapon, so do try to limit comments, feedback and constructive criticism to the dagger please!

SOULBEAST FEEDBACK - DAGGER

The dagger main hand is ArenaNet's Response to the lack of a proper condition-centric main hand weapon. Does it deliver?
Well, for the condition aspect, yes, but it offers minimal utility. A lot of bleeds, poisons and vulnerability stacks, with good attack speed, but currently, it is a High Risk, Low Reward weapon - Very close ranged, cleaves only 2 targets and it builds its damage over time, leaving the player rather vulnerable. It does offer some limited utility through it's attack number 3, Instinctive Engage but it could offer something more.


[1] Auto Attack Chain

The change between the preview weekends and the live game are extremely appreciated - it used to feel extremely slow, it now feels more fluid. The power coefficient are very low, but hey, it is condition focused. The one suggestion I'd make for the auto attack chain would be to slightly boost the direct damage coefficients - nothing game breaking, but just enough to say ''I can still deal some damage without relying on building up lots of stacks of vuln, bleed and poison''

Suggestion:

  • Augment base damage by 10%
  • Augment coefficients by 0.1 for first 3 hits and by 0.2 for the 4th hit

[2] Double Arc

The weapon's second skill currently covers a single purpose: Condition application. Again, this weapon requires the Ranger to jump into danger at very close range, so there is one very simple change that would be welcome by all: Add a short evade frame. I'd also strongly suggest changing the skill's animation - it is really hard to tell if the skill was successful, as it is very similar to the auto attack animations! The Thief's Dagger Dual Skill (with no off hand) Twisting Fangs would perfectly fit this skill's name, and would give a proper visual queue of the skill being cast.

Suggestion:

  • Add a 0.5s evade frame at the start of the cast
  • Change the animation to Twisting Fangs' animation

[3] Instinctive Engage

This skill is interesting in that it offers no condition, because it is a utility-focused skill. It deals some damage, grants quickness on successful hit and is a leap finisher on 400 range. Oh and it uses the ammunition system, with 2 charges on 15s cooldown (12s when traited)

It is an interesting skill, but oddly enough, it offers no synergy to our Minor Traits! Being a condi weapon, it has no real synergy with Furious Strength (affects direct damage, not condition damage) and it has no synergy with Twice as Vicious

Being a utility skill, I won't suggest anything related to damage, instead, something related to utility - A very short daze on hit. Just for the interrupt, and to synergize with Twice as Vicious. The cooldown, even traited, stays very reasonable (I mean, look at Thieves' Headshot ;) )

Suggestion:

  • Daze the enemy for 0.25s on successful hit

If deemed too 'powerful', the daze could be conditional;

  • Daze the enemy for 0.25s on a successful hit when you have Quickness

I believe those changes would add functionality in PvE, and for PvP and WvW, a little more utility and survivability.
We don't need a full rework, just minor tweaks, and I believe the suggested tweaks would keep a healthy balance while adding something unique and feel more rewarding. The damage is fine, the utility is lacking.

See also:

Marcus Forrest - Celestial Soulbeast - Darkhaven

Soulbeast Feedback >> Dagger Skills / Beast Abilities / Stance Skills

<1

Comments

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I love those ideas and i agree with them. Actually i like the direction you want to go with the dagger .
    Just a couple observations:

    • What about Double Arc to apply 3 seconds daze on hit instead Instinctive engage. That skill is designed to be a hard hitting skill, unfortunately ended up to look like another autoattack.
    • And Instinctive Engage: Steal one boon on hit. As such can be used to prepare a warrior for applying the daze. With the amount of boons is in game right now the Soulbeast is in great disadvantage is it can steal the stability, protection or resistance which other enemies has very easy access to while blocking all the attacks.
  • @ProtoMarcus.7649 said:

    I need you to come to my home and explain every aspect of life to me in the format you just explained the SoulBeast Dagger Mainhand.......I also "need" you to do way more stuff like this on the forums.....LOL!

  • Based on your feedback I am assuming you are talking from a PvP or WvW point of view. For open world pve, anything goes, and I think most people have no trouble running through the desert with their Soulbeast. For endgame PvE such as fractals and raids, I think Soulbeast is in really good spot considering full condition Soulbeast can pull at least 35k dps, or you could change it up to have spotter and spirits for party support, at the cost of personal dps. Changes such as evade frames and dazes I assume are more aimed at competitive play, as that is where it's has the most impact. I think you should be stating at the start of the post, whether you are talking about Soulbeast in general, or with a specific game mode in mind, because PvE wise, the Soulbeast is actually in a very good spot at the moment.

  • Kidel.2057Kidel.2057 Member ✭✭✭

    At the moment full condi soulbeast can pull off 40k dps. That's basically top dps if you exclude weaver and firebrand at 50k dps (but those 2 are OP and must be nerfed).

  • Maybe the Wiki needs an update on the auto attack coefficients, as it lists them as 0.4/0.4/0.4/0.5. If anything, Deadly Delivery (1d) requires the largest bump, seeing how its cast time between the demo and launch went from ¼s to ¾s. That said, 0.4/0.4/0.4/0.8 seems more fitting with a minor bump to its base damage as well.

    PET PRECISION & DPS DATA (DPS outdated)
    Back in Black... Desert Online.

  • Durzlla.6295Durzlla.6295 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Personally I wouldn't add anything more to the 3 skill, it seems to do its job just fine, and has a lot of synergy with the traits already. However, I would like to see the 2 skill get a buff in some way since it just feels very boring, and weak. I think it'd be cool if it had a conditional daze on it. Like, if both attacks hit it dazes, or if you have quickness it dazed etc. nothing too long though, only like 1s max.

    "But my children sing to me. Listen. They sing dark, delicious notes about power and family. As their mother, I have to grant them their wish."

  • ProtoMarcus.7649ProtoMarcus.7649 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2017

    @Wondrouswall.7169 said:
    Maybe the Wiki needs an update on the auto attack coefficients, as it lists them as 0.4/0.4/0.4/0.5. If anything, Deadly Delivery (1d) requires the largest bump, seeing how its cast time between the demo and launch went from ¼s to ¾s. That said, 0.4/0.4/0.4/0.8 seems more fitting with a minor bump to its base damage as well.

    Woops.

    No idea why I used the value I mentionned woops

    Correcting it right away - also think the base damage should be augmented and minor coefficient augmentation so that it doesn't scale too efficiently with power

    But yes the final strike should pack the bigger punch

    Marcus Forrest - Celestial Soulbeast - Darkhaven

    Soulbeast Feedback >> Dagger Skills / Beast Abilities / Stance Skills

  • @Trueshots.9456 said:

    @ProtoMarcus.7649 said:

    I need you to come to my home and explain every aspect of life to me in the format you just explained the SoulBeast Dagger Mainhand.......I also "need" you to do way more stuff like this on the forums.....LOL!

    Ahahaha thanks for the comment - actually working on other commentaries/feedback/suggestions covering stances, traits and the soulbeast beastmode mechanics too, should be posted shortly :)

    Marcus Forrest - Celestial Soulbeast - Darkhaven

    Soulbeast Feedback >> Dagger Skills / Beast Abilities / Stance Skills

  • Kanto.1659Kanto.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kidel.2057 said:
    At the moment full condi soulbeast can pull off 40k dps. That's basically top dps if you exclude weaver and firebrand at 50k dps (but those 2 are OP and must be nerfed).

    Keeping in mind those numbers are with a sylvari's pet elite. Not to say hardcores won't race change for the extra damage, but it is still a conditional .

    If you'd like to have a night version of the forums check the firefox addon called Stylish, and then Phyrene's work.

  • Anet pls hire this man to design ranger specializations. As for the person saying these are obsolete changes in PvE....well maybe they are since most of pve is spamming autos that doesn't mean the weapons themselves need to be boring and sooo straightforward. i ve seen many posts regarding potential changes hope someone out there is listening and something actually changes . While i love the idea behind the spec it feels lil bit clunky and boring. Also i'd like to see dagger getting just a little bit of increase to its power coefficients as to mke hybrid builds actually viable.

  • @Kuroshini.9482 said:
    Anet pls hire this man to design ranger specializations. As for the person saying these are obsolete changes in PvE....well maybe they are since most of pve is spamming autos that doesn't mean the weapons themselves need to be boring and sooo straightforward. i ve seen many posts regarding potential changes hope someone out there is listening and something actually changes . While i love the idea behind the spec it feels lil bit clunky and boring. Also i'd like to see dagger getting just a little bit of increase to its power coefficients as to mke hybrid builds actually viable.

    Thanks for the comment and feedback :)

    Was thinking about how they could boost rhe dagger power damage, and while I understand that it is by design thay it's so low, I feel it shouldn't scale too much with power - buffing base values would help, and slightly buffing coefficients would give it some punch while still keeping its identity as condition-focused

    Marcus Forrest - Celestial Soulbeast - Darkhaven

    Soulbeast Feedback >> Dagger Skills / Beast Abilities / Stance Skills

  • Ario.8964Ario.8964 Member ✭✭✭✭

    To me the #3 felt like it would be better suited with an evade than the #2 but I dropped dagger pretty quickly on soulbeast so you may have a bit better of a feel than I do. If that happened maybe add a gap closer or something to the #2 so it's hit is more consistent and possibly put the daze on the second hit of that skill?

  • Billy.1879Billy.1879 Member ✭✭

    I can't talk from a pvp perspective yet but condi soulbeast is in a super good spot. Ranger feels super strong in comparison to a lot of other stuff

  • @Ario.8964 said:
    To me the #3 felt like it would be better suited with an evade than the #2 but I dropped dagger pretty quickly on soulbeast so you may have a bit better of a feel than I do. If that happened maybe add a gap closer or something to the #2 so it's hit is more consistent and possibly put the daze on the second hit of that skill?

    Adding an evade frame on Instinctive Engage would make it the ultimate engage/disengage skill, thought about it too, but then if we moved the daze to Double Arc, you'd have harder time in connecting the attack - leaping to your foe would make it easier to connect the attack, and the quickness gained from it + twice as vicious would really make this skill a utility skill focused on enhancing your dps - also the evade that could be given to double arc would be on a base 7s CD or traited 5.25s (didn't even realise they buffed double arc from 8s CD in the preview weekends to 7s, minor but welcome change!)

    Marcus Forrest - Celestial Soulbeast - Darkhaven

    Soulbeast Feedback >> Dagger Skills / Beast Abilities / Stance Skills

  • ProtoMarcus.7649ProtoMarcus.7649 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 1, 2017

    @Billy.1879 said:
    I can't talk from a pvp perspective yet but condi soulbeast is in a super good spot. Ranger feels super strong in comparison to a lot of other stuff

    Anything works in PvE so those changes would be minimal for PvE - they are not focused on directly increasing the DPS from conditions - only SLIGHTLY for the power values, and the other proposed changes are for utility. Those suggestions are for PvP and WvW perspectives mainly but find their use in PvE aswell

    The synergy that a daze would have with Twice as Vicious does offer potential extra DPS but again it is situational

    Also remember that the combat dynamic is VASTLY different in the different game modes, so while condi Soulbeast can be efficient in PvE, you have to remember that PvP and WvW is vs players and not Predictable-Pattern-Following-mostly-static enemies

    In short, the dagger condition DPS is adequate, those suggestions are for the dagger's utility and not condition damage efficiency

    Marcus Forrest - Celestial Soulbeast - Darkhaven

    Soulbeast Feedback >> Dagger Skills / Beast Abilities / Stance Skills

  • Conncept.7638Conncept.7638 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 1, 2017

    Why would you buff the power coefficent on a condition weapon? The Soulbeast is a hodgepodge spec, it's meant to work with any other build by taking bits and pieces instead of the whole thing. The dagger is the portion of that hodgepodge that was made specifically for condition builds, because all of our other MH weapons are either power (Sword, GS) or hyrbid (the Axe).

    Yes, you read that last sentence right, as everyone seems to forget, rangers have a sword. If you want a better melee power weapon, buff it, and leave the dagger as the condi weapon it was intended to be.

  • Sarision.6347Sarision.6347 Member ✭✭
    edited October 1, 2017

    @Conncept.7638 said:
    Why would you buff the power coefficent on a condition weapon? The Soulbeast is a hodgepodge spec, it's meant to work with any other build by taking bits and pieces instead of the whole thing. The dagger is the portion of that hodgepodge that was made specifically for condition builds, because all of our other MH weapons are either power (Sword, GS) or hyrbid (the Axe).

    Yes, you read that last sentence right, as everyone seems to forget, rangers have a sword. If you want a better melee power weapon, buff it, and leave the dagger as the condi weapon it was intended to be.

    I pretty gave up on asking for buffs on Sword, GS, and LB. Better off asking for a power weapon that takes no or minimal balancing with pets for future E-Spec.

  • ProtoMarcus.7649ProtoMarcus.7649 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 1, 2017

    @Conncept.7638 said:
    Why would you buff the power coefficent on a condition weapon? The Soulbeast is a hodgepodge spec, it's meant to work with any other build by taking bits and pieces instead of the whole thing. The dagger is the portion of that hodgepodge that was made specifically for condition builds, because all of our other MH weapons are either power (Sword, GS) or hyrbid (the Axe).

    Yes, you read that last sentence right, as everyone seems to forget, rangers have a sword. If you want a better melee power weapon, buff it, and leave the dagger as the condi weapon it was intended to be.

    Thanks for the feedback

    I think you fail to see the main theme of the suggestions - its not about buffing dps output but to add utility

    The suggestions to the auto chain is minimal, I already mentionned and acknowledged dagger is a condi weapon in the hands of a Ranger - it already has rather low values, I was merely suggesting adjusting the values to some levels that give it some oomph without pushing away from it's condition role.

    I am leaving the dagger as a the condi weapon it is meant to be.

    Don't think people forgot about sword either

    Marcus Forrest - Celestial Soulbeast - Darkhaven

    Soulbeast Feedback >> Dagger Skills / Beast Abilities / Stance Skills

  • ProtoMarcus.7649ProtoMarcus.7649 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 3, 2017

    I also understand Soulbeast's dagger is supposed to be pretty much single target - the auto chain can hit up to 2 foes (but thieves' daggers can hit 3) but I feel Double Arc should cleave at least up to 2 targets. Instinctive Engage is fine with single target

    EDIT - Thief auto also affects a maximum of 2 targets - it's only the dual skill Twisting Fangs that can hit up to 3 targets, my bad!

    Marcus Forrest - Celestial Soulbeast - Darkhaven

    Soulbeast Feedback >> Dagger Skills / Beast Abilities / Stance Skills

  • Kravick.4906Kravick.4906 Member ✭✭
    edited October 3, 2017

    @ProtoMarcus.7649 said:
    I also understand Soulbeast's dagger is supposed to be pretty much single target - the auto chain can hit up to 2 foes (but thieves' daggers can hit 3) but I feel Double Arc should cleave at least up to 2 targets. Instinctive Engage is fine with single target

    Thief dagger hits two targets, not three. Same as the necromancer's dagger. The "cleave" weapon for thieves is sword, which does hit three.

  • @Kravick.4906 said:

    @ProtoMarcus.7649 said:
    I also understand Soulbeast's dagger is supposed to be pretty much single target - the auto chain can hit up to 2 foes (but thieves' daggers can hit 3) but I feel Double Arc should cleave at least up to 2 targets. Instinctive Engage is fine with single target

    Thief dagger hits two targets, not three. Same as the necromancer's dagger. The "cleave" weapon for thieves is sword, which does hit three.

    ah-HA! Thanks for confirming, didn't even check the auto chain skill target limit, based that on... Twisting Fangs itself, which affects 3 targets! Thanks for clarifying, correcting right away.

    Marcus Forrest - Celestial Soulbeast - Darkhaven

    Soulbeast Feedback >> Dagger Skills / Beast Abilities / Stance Skills

  • A daze will helps tons.
    Dagger oh needs a look i wanted to go D/D but torch is miles ahead

  • lynspottery.6529lynspottery.6529 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2017

    I have ditched my Soulbeast dagger for my hybrid exotic axe (Axe of the Dragon's Deep) w/Viper's stats and Superior Sigil of Blood. Then I got an ascended torch with Viper's stats w/Spr Sigil of Earth with infusion of malign. I use Axe/Torch and LB as my weapons of choice. I tried SB and keep coming back to my Kudzu (which I swapped stats out to be Viper's (pwr, prec, condi, expert) and use Spr Sigil of Blood and Spr Sigil of Fire on.

    I do not like melee on my ranger, it just doesn't fit my play style. Besides being a casual pve player I would much rather not worry about "up close and personal" combat. I would much rather see the Elite spec conform to my weapons of choice when using the Soulbeast spec rather than having to use a weapon I don't like just to get the benefit of the Elite spec when I use it.

    Still working on my pets, but currently I am using my brown bear for my tank and have started using the fanged Iboga as my alt beast. Rather like having poison spitting beast for ranged dps pet...nice touch that. Won't know how the other new pets work out until I obtain them.

  • @lynspottery.6529 said:
    I have ditched my Soulbeast dagger for my hybrid exotic axe (Axe of the Dragon's Deep) w/Viper's stats and Superior Sigil of Blood. Then I got an ascended torch with Viper's stats w/Spr Sigil of Earth with infusion of malign. I use Axe/Torch and LB as my weapons of choice. I tried SB and keep coming back to my Kudzu (which I swapped stats out to be Viper's (pwr, prec, condi, expert) and use Spr Sigil of Blood and Spr Sigil of Fire on.

    I do not like melee on my ranger, it just doesn't fit my play style. Besides being a casual pve player I would much rather not worry about "up close and personal" combat. I would much rather see the Elite spec conform to my weapons of choice when using the Soulbeast spec rather than having to use a weapon I don't like just to get the benefit of the Elite spec when I use it.

    Still working on my pets, but currently I am using my brown bear for my tank and have started using the fanged Iboga as my alt beast. Rather like having poison spitting beast for ranged dps pet...nice touch that. Won't know how the other new pets work out until I obtain them.

    The Juvenile Rock Gazelle is also a solid tanking alternative! It has highest toughness (along with devourers) at 2898 toughness and fair amount of vitality at 3242 vitality

    Not just that, it deals a nice amount of damage and has multiple CC options!

    It is categorized as a Ferocious archetype. You do lose the condi cleanse from Juvenile Brown Bear, and the damage mitigating skills when in beastmode but gain lots of CC and more DPS.

    Marcus Forrest - Celestial Soulbeast - Darkhaven

    Soulbeast Feedback >> Dagger Skills / Beast Abilities / Stance Skills

  • While i like Dagger mainhand for Soulbeast it does need a few buffs but overall i like it so far.
    Considering ranger shortbow is used mainly for skill 2 & 4 before swapping to Axe/Torch, wouldn't it be a bit more DPS to use Dagger/Dagger in ur rotation over shortbow ?
    For me i use my beast mode condi skills, followed by Dagger/Dagger rotation of using dagger 3 to get 3 secs of quickness followed by Dagger 5, 4 & 2, a few auto attacks & then giving myself quickness again before i swap to Axe/Torch where i then use bonfire, throw torch, axe 3, axe 2, beast mode condi skills & bonfire again & then swapping back to Dagger/Dagger to repeat my rotation. I lose a bit of range without shortbow but i was only using shortbow for 2 skills & i can quickly do more DPS with Dagger/Dagger than what i get with Shortbow.

  • You're better off going axe/torch & dagger/- than dropping shortbow for axe in place of an off-hand dagger.

    PET PRECISION & DPS DATA (DPS outdated)
    Back in Black... Desert Online.

  • @ProtoMarcus.7649 said:

    @lynspottery.6529 said:
    I have ditched my Soulbeast dagger for my hybrid exotic axe (Axe of the Dragon's Deep) w/Viper's stats and Superior Sigil of Blood. Then I got an ascended torch with Viper's stats w/Spr Sigil of Earth with infusion of malign. I use Axe/Torch and LB as my weapons of choice. I tried SB and keep coming back to my Kudzu (which I swapped stats out to be Viper's (pwr, prec, condi, expert) and use Spr Sigil of Blood and Spr Sigil of Fire on.

    I do not like melee on my ranger, it just doesn't fit my play style. Besides being a casual pve player I would much rather not worry about "up close and personal" combat. I would much rather see the Elite spec conform to my weapons of choice when using the Soulbeast spec rather than having to use a weapon I don't like just to get the benefit of the Elite spec when I use it.

    Still working on my pets, but currently I am using my brown bear for my tank and have started using the fanged Iboga as my alt beast. Rather like having poison spitting beast for ranged dps pet...nice touch that. Won't know how the other new pets work out until I obtain them.

    The Juvenile Rock Gazelle is also a solid tanking alternative! It has highest toughness (along with devourers) at 2898 toughness and fair amount of vitality at 3242 vitality

    Not just that, it deals a nice amount of damage and has multiple CC options!

    It is categorized as a Ferocious archetype. You do lose the condi cleanse from Juvenile Brown Bear, and the damage mitigating skills when in beastmode but gain lots of CC and more DPS.

    Thanks for that info. I have yet to obtain that pet, but still working my way through things. Getting my 4th mount tonight...perhaps after that I'll go looking for that pet. Appreciate the tips. :)

  • im using shortbow atm and wondering what to use , because its lacking in everything but keeping poison and bleeding going on (oh and the daze thats always nice to have)
    d/a and SB is my combo , SB give me some range for those mobs that are annoying as !$!$!$ to fight on melee range .

  • Sartharina.3542Sartharina.3542 Member ✭✭✭

    I love all these suggestions... They'd make dagger actually fun! And an evade on Dagger 2 would give it a nice mirror to Dagger 4.

  • Razor.9872Razor.9872 Member ✭✭✭

    Nice, your suggestions for dagger actually line up pretty close to what I wrote a while back:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/6une1l/soulbeast_demo_feedback_suggestions/

    Although, I went a bit further and suggested that Twice as Vicious should grant a little bit of fury on disable as well.

    NSPride~

  • Razor.9872Razor.9872 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ritualist Essence.9285 said:
    While i like Dagger mainhand for Soulbeast it does need a few buffs but overall i like it so far.
    Considering ranger shortbow is used mainly for skill 2 & 4 before swapping to Axe/Torch, wouldn't it be a bit more DPS to use Dagger/Dagger in ur rotation over shortbow ?
    For me i use my beast mode condi skills, followed by Dagger/Dagger rotation of using dagger 3 to get 3 secs of quickness followed by Dagger 5, 4 & 2, a few auto attacks & then giving myself quickness again before i swap to Axe/Torch where i then use bonfire, throw torch, axe 3, axe 2, beast mode condi skills & bonfire again & then swapping back to Dagger/Dagger to repeat my rotation. I lose a bit of range without shortbow but i was only using shortbow for 2 skills & i can quickly do more DPS with Dagger/Dagger than what i get with Shortbow.

    QT released the Sbeast benchmark the other day. Meta build uses dagger/torch - shortbow. And you actually use the 5 on shortbow to briefly gain Twice as Vicious.

    NSPride~

  • @Sartharina.3542 said:
    I love all these suggestions... They'd make dagger actually fun! And an evade on Dagger 2 would give it a nice mirror to Dagger 4.

    Indeed! I kinda like dagger main-hand but yes, just some tweaks to make it more interesting

    I also feel dagger off-hand should be re-examined a bit - dagger 5 Crippling Talon could definitely make good use of the ammo system, and the dagger 4 Stalker's Strike could have much higher numbers for the direct damage component.

    Marcus Forrest - Celestial Soulbeast - Darkhaven

    Soulbeast Feedback >> Dagger Skills / Beast Abilities / Stance Skills

  • In light of today's patch, I wanna not-so-subtlely give a little push to this older thread

    Today's patch brought some fixes and minor tweaks to beastmode skills but most of ranger/druid/soulbeast was untouched

    TL;DR - Dagger Main hand has solid DPS but its really the only thing it has, no utility
    Suggestions:

    • Short evade frame on dagger 2
    • Short daze on dagger 3 (something like 0.25s) to interrupt and have synergy with the trait Twice as Vicious

    Marcus Forrest - Celestial Soulbeast - Darkhaven

    Soulbeast Feedback >> Dagger Skills / Beast Abilities / Stance Skills

  • Eleazar.9478Eleazar.9478 Member ✭✭✭

    @ProtoMarcus.7649 said:
    In light of today's patch, I wanna not-so-subtlely give a little push to this older thread

    Today's patch brought some fixes and minor tweaks to beastmode skills but most of ranger/druid/soulbeast was untouched

    TL;DR - Dagger Main hand has solid DPS but its really the only thing it has, no utility
    Suggestions:

    • Short evade frame on dagger 2
    • Short daze on dagger 3 (something like 0.25s) to interrupt and have synergy with the trait Twice as Vicious

    Wbahahah guess we'll wait a year after the expac to use dagger outside of pve

  • Eleazar.9478Eleazar.9478 Member ✭✭✭

    1 Year later dagger still is bad, How much yall wana bet it gets nothing next balance update

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eleazar.9478 said:
    1 Year later dagger still is bad, How much yall wana bet it gets nothing next balance update

    Wait, its already a year >. >
    daaaaaamn.
    Yeah dagger two needs utility, dagger 3 an evade and dagger AA a shorter faster chain.
    And soulbeast/rangers needs in general some improvements for condi builds.

  • Eleazar.9478Eleazar.9478 Member ✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Eleazar.9478 said:
    1 Year later dagger still is bad, How much yall wana bet it gets nothing next balance update

    Wait, its already a year >. >
    daaaaaamn.
    Yeah dagger two needs utility, dagger 3 an evade and dagger AA a shorter faster chain.
    And soulbeast/rangers needs in general some improvements for condi builds.

    dont worry though they''ll rework every other class in existance though (when we really just need at the very least to 3 weapon skills)

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eleazar.9478 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Eleazar.9478 said:
    1 Year later dagger still is bad, How much yall wana bet it gets nothing next balance update

    Wait, its already a year >. >
    daaaaaamn.
    Yeah dagger two needs utility, dagger 3 an evade and dagger AA a shorter faster chain.
    And soulbeast/rangers needs in general some improvements for condi builds.

    dont worry though they''ll rework every other class in existance though (when we really just need at the very least to 3 weapon skills)

    Well dagger MH is lower on the priority list than dagger OH IMO and pets are even higher.

  • anduriell.6280anduriell.6280 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eleazar.9478 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Eleazar.9478 said:
    1 Year later dagger still is bad, How much yall wana bet it gets nothing next balance update

    Wait, its already a year >. >
    daaaaaamn.
    Yeah dagger two needs utility, dagger 3 an evade and dagger AA a shorter faster chain.
    And soulbeast/rangers needs in general some improvements for condi builds.

    dont worry though they''ll rework every other class in existance though (when we really just need at the very least to 3 weapon skills)

    i read somewhere in reddit the system team is considering to look into the ranger somehow but they find any change to be a titanic endeavour.

    At this point if the code is such a pasta dish i would even consider the option of a refactoring of the class code . Otherwise the problems might get worse with every new specialisation.

  • Eleazar.9478Eleazar.9478 Member ✭✭✭

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Eleazar.9478 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Eleazar.9478 said:
    1 Year later dagger still is bad, How much yall wana bet it gets nothing next balance update

    Wait, its already a year >. >
    daaaaaamn.
    Yeah dagger two needs utility, dagger 3 an evade and dagger AA a shorter faster chain.
    And soulbeast/rangers needs in general some improvements for condi builds.

    dont worry though they''ll rework every other class in existance though (when we really just need at the very least to 3 weapon skills)

    Well dagger MH is lower on the priority list than dagger OH IMO and pets are even higher.

    says who? and base pets havent gotten love for over a year I belive

  • Krispera.5087Krispera.5087 Member ✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:
    i read somewhere in reddit the system team is considering to look into the ranger somehow but they find any change to be a titanic endeavour.

    I wouldn't count on it. Like you said, they seem to explicitly say that pet re-haul is gonna take time and resources. They didn't even start it yet.

  • Eleazar.9478Eleazar.9478 Member ✭✭✭

    @anduriell.6280 said:

    @Eleazar.9478 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    @Eleazar.9478 said:
    1 Year later dagger still is bad, How much yall wana bet it gets nothing next balance update

    Wait, its already a year >. >
    daaaaaamn.
    Yeah dagger two needs utility, dagger 3 an evade and dagger AA a shorter faster chain.
    And soulbeast/rangers needs in general some improvements for condi builds.

    dont worry though they''ll rework every other class in existance though (when we really just need at the very least to 3 weapon skills)

    i read somewhere in reddit the system team is considering to look into the ranger somehow but they find any change to be a titanic endeavour.

    At this point if the code is such a pasta dish i would even consider the option of a refactoring of the class code . Otherwise the problems might get worse with every new specialisation.

    I'd love to see a sauce if at all possible (really curious)

    But I mean even if that's the reason than why make Soulbeast my dagger suck so bad? Surely they could make it somewhat better is a weapon for crying out loud. Take for example GS and warhorn they both interact with the specs mechanics so much better

  • Eleazar.9478Eleazar.9478 Member ✭✭✭

    Thanks, well guess we're screwed then maybe two years from now.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Eleazar.9478 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:

    Well dagger MH is lower on the priority list than dagger OH IMO and pets are even higher.

    says who? and base pets havent gotten love for over a year I belive

    Who said this?
    Well read again my friend.
    I said this.

  • I honestly wanna use Viper gear Dagger/Dagger<->shortbow, but it doesn't work as well as just going zerker Longbow<->Greatsword =c. Ironically, the damage of each is fine- the dagger/dagger set up isn't safe enough, and shortbow is super slow outside of the auto attacks. That's how it feels to me. I'm kinda confused how they released what (from the outside looking in of course) appears to be a Condition/Viper traitline and new weapon, that then gets converted to power tools.

  • Eleazar.9478Eleazar.9478 Member ✭✭✭

    @StabbersTheThird.6053 said:
    I honestly wanna use Viper gear Dagger/Dagger<->shortbow, but it doesn't work as well as just going zerker Longbow<->Greatsword =c. Ironically, the damage of each is fine- the dagger/dagger set up isn't safe enough, and shortbow is super slow outside of the auto attacks. That's how it feels to me. I'm kinda confused how they released what (from the outside looking in of course) appears to be a Condition/Viper traitline and new weapon, that then gets converted to power tools.

    Well my theory is that they wanted to plug in rangers poor power coefficients by giveing a spec that gives crazy power modifiers.

    And they gave dagger because ranger didn't have a melee condition weapon.

    There probably wasn't a clear design goal for Soulbeast like for example spellbreaker hell they even mived spellbreakers orginal elite to Soulbeast.

    Power works better simply because the power traits and weapons allow ranger to only need weapon damage for high bursts and lets us fill our bar with uttility skills. (Stunbreaks cleanse and stab)

    Another issue with condition ranger is that it has almost no burst through its weapons bleeds and poison are the rangers main dps conditions and they're the lowest damage dealing condtions so you have to build up alot stacks to get good dps witch takes time and everyone has a kitten ton of cleanse. (Had the bugged flamed trapped stayed bugged lol condition ranger would be good as it would have a scource of burst)

    Ive been playing around with dagger recently and I think if they did what insane qr mentioned flipped the posion first then channel the bleeds and vuln, it would be alot better and make preditiors cunning very kitten good for PvP. Dagger also needs some defensive skill or a daze. The skill 2 I think is what really drags the weapon down since it's only really good for precasts.

  • Do you think if the Dagger 1 chain (not sure how to word/balance, just concept idea here) had a mini leap on it and/or lifesteal that it would be better for pvp, or status quo? Basically able to stick to a target opponent in a limited range.

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