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WvW rewards: why are they so lacking?


Rennie.6750

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@Rennie.6750 said:No, that was just putting things into perspective, if I mentioned the relative privation fallacy, nobody would know what it means.Right now I'm playing a game where I get maybe 5 items (which sell very cheap) a day. So what? When I farmed the silverwastes to get the AP I didn't know where to put all that loot. It really annoyed me and it also annoyed me in wvw in the end because I felt I was clicking wiggle chests more often than clicking on an enemy. I don't get this sentiment, for real. And people complained that much that they're drowning in loot, the TP crumbles (good luck with selling anything your bank is full of) and yet they still complain. I honestly don't get it.

ETA: And just saying but your perception of what PvE players are getting is wrong. For teq and for meta events. Like I already said. One dev once said that we're getting more than we think and since I never cared what I was getting (so viewed everything objectively) I agree that WvW is about on par with PvE meta maps, just that bosses usually have yellow items. There is no 'guaranteed yellow' in wvw and that's maybe for the better as the karma trains would roll over everything were that the case.ETA²: And like I also said: The MORE LOOT cries cause also quite a lot of problems. So how about finding another game with better rewards for yourself?

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@MrRay.3027 said:

@Cerby.1069 said:You get full rewards just for showing up basically in this mode and doing anything that can be measured by the system. It is difficult to measure accomplishment in this mode, I can't lie about that, but the system they DO have is rather simple-minded because of the "winning vs losing doesn't matter" mentality stated above.

Isn't it kind of the same with every reward in any pve open world activity? In metas, you show up, you follow the commander mindlessly, do some damage and get rewards (better than wvw). Or world bosses, where it's even easier. So following this logic, why should the wvw rewards be worse?

Well I would rather not dispute that since what you say is also true to a large enough extent. You have to be aware of mechanics in many pve instances tho, or at least listen to people. You cant just mindlessly press 1 and F on the ones that give actual credible rewards.....hot meta events for example.World bosses are on timers so even if they are easy they DO require mass gatherings (players must instigate on their own) and dedication to sit around in a map so it dont que.....its got the humbling waiting component is all im saying.

There are enough roles i guess really in hot type events to give independent action meaning enough of the time anyways.

Plus pvp ranked you have to work for if you want to win consistently (since if you solo que you have to take and win far lane in order to have any real control on the outcome).

So ya i can kinda scrape together some kind of argument with stuff like this. Like I said tho you arent wrong.... to the extent that i would rather debate from your side.

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I think there's a difference between farming and just playing for fun. Nobody "farms" in WvW. It may feel that way sometimes if you are facerolling, but people generally play for fun. Most of the ways to make money in PvE you mention are farming techniques. If you just played PvE for fun (doing story missions, exploring, whatever), then there's no way you're getting really good rewards. Maybe a rare every once in awhile from a champ. The reason you get more gold from say...chopping wood for hours on end is there is a demand for materials and nobody actually wants to do that. Because it's boring as shit. The tradeoff you get for not getting great rewards is that WvW is mainly just to have fun fighting and skirmishing with other players on a large scale.

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@SWI.4127 said:I think there's a difference between farming and just playing for fun. Nobody "farms" in WvW. It may feel that way sometimes if you are facerolling, but people generally play for fun. Most of the ways to make money in PvE you mention are farming techniques. If you just played PvE for fun (doing story missions, exploring, whatever), then there's no way you're getting really good rewards. Maybe a rare every once in awhile from a champ. The reason you get more gold from say...chopping wood for hours on end is there is a demand for materials and nobody actually wants to do that. Because it's boring as kitten. The tradeoff you get for not getting great rewards is that WvW is mainly just to have fun fighting and skirmishing with other players on a large scale.

I too play WvW for fun mostly, I just wish I could get some meaningful character progression for it instead of getting almost all of it from the comparatively limited time i spend doing pve stuff. It's absolutely not trivial to get some gear and crafting mats from WvW. I have so many xp books that i trashed an entire stack not so long ago, and I'm not even counting the billions of useless transmutation stuff I'm getting all the damn time. Filling tracks with such junk is really trolling regular players. Yes, if you play WvW once a month, it may feel awesome, if not, then you just feel like you've been slapped in the face by the guys adding the rewards, and then you got to watch them doing high fives in their office. :)

And that's ONE example of terrible stuff. We're absolutely not getting more than we think, as someone said. I know exactly what I'm getting, because I played like a bean counter this week and didn't deposit anything until I was done and ready to sort out inventory stuff. The results were not pleasing at all. Good day, bad days, it was just bad in the end. I'm also taking into account the semi useless currencies and the lack of long term sink for them.

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@Rangerdeity.5847 said:yes but WvW players have decided to collectivly shut up recently since they are now 100x better than they were prior to pips and reward tracks. but yes the rate of rewards is still absolutely terrible. one would think the most unpredictable and challenging game mode would yield more rewards.

Inb4 pve scrub says WvW just runs around in a blob not fully understanding that your blob consistantly and endlessly runs into the two enemy blobs. this isnt a champion loot farm like you PVE'rs are used to WvW blobs are large scale conflict seeking blobs and only one side gets the loot when the fight turns hot.

Your wvw blobbling is nowhere near as challenging as spvp.

You're a game format whose rewards cannot be balanced because it's always a game of who's got the bigger numbers.

If the rewards were any good, people would be fiercely competing to transfer to the top tier servers with the largest, most active zergs. Rewards on a lower tier server would be shit.

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@Zenith.7301 said:

@Rangerdeity.5847 said:yes but WvW players have decided to collectivly shut up recently since they are now 100x better than they were prior to pips and reward tracks. but yes the rate of rewards is still absolutely terrible. one would think the most unpredictable and challenging game mode would yield more rewards.

Inb4 pve scrub says WvW just runs around in a blob not fully understanding that your blob consistantly and endlessly runs into the two enemy blobs. this isnt a champion loot farm like you PVE'rs are used to WvW blobs are large scale conflict seeking blobs and only one side gets the loot when the fight turns hot.

Your wvw blobbling is nowhere near as challenging as spvp.

You're a game format whose rewards cannot be balanced because it's always a game of who's got the bigger numbers.

If the rewards were any good, people would be fiercely competing to transfer to the top tier servers with the largest, most active zergs. Rewards on a lower tier server would be kitten.

I highly agree with you. Thus here is my recommendations, to prevent yalls concerns.

All that would need to happen. Is that ANet learn the lesson ZOS learn with ESO's Cyrodiil.

Make rewards scale towards the intensity of each fight. PvDing and avoiding fights, gets your Zerg nearly nothing. Just omni-blobbing, against players who are just completely outnumbered gets your zerg nothing.

Drastically up the rewards giving in WvW. However scale them based off of how many players are tagging said objectives, and players. 2 to 4 players groups rewards don't split as much as say a 50 man or more blobs. Solo players would get better rewards for objectives and player kills, then a blob of 50 or more players just steamrolling others. The longer the fight over a objective the more rewards the zergs get for succeeding to capture or defend it.

Also again unlock the AOE cap. Yes zergs would be able to deal more damage to the smaller group. However that doesn't matter anyways when a group of 15 highly coordinated players go up against map queue blobs. Then because the map queue blob can just magically, ignore a big portion of the smaller group's damage by stacking numbers. Without this crutch Zerglings would have to use more tactics, and be less of a mindless zombie horde. That is the main reason why stacked servers are just so oppressive in GW2's WvW. Removing or highly nerfing the AOE cap, would also make stacking numbers and burning tactics reasonable, and not just plainly overpowered.

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@Zenith.7301 said:

@Rangerdeity.5847 said:yes but WvW players have decided to collectivly shut up recently since they are now 100x better than they were prior to pips and reward tracks. but yes the rate of rewards is still absolutely terrible. one would think the most unpredictable and challenging game mode would yield more rewards.

Inb4 pve scrub says WvW just runs around in a blob not fully understanding that your blob consistantly and endlessly runs into the two enemy blobs. this isnt a champion loot farm like you PVE'rs are used to WvW blobs are large scale conflict seeking blobs and only one side gets the loot when the fight turns hot.

Your wvw blobbling is nowhere near as challenging as spvp.

You're a game format whose rewards cannot be balanced because it's always a game of who's got the bigger numbers.

If the rewards were any good, people would be fiercely competing to transfer to the top tier servers with the largest, most active zergs. Rewards on a lower tier server would be kitten.

then link rewards with PPT no top tier server can guaranteed they will be in top of PPT at all times every week.

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@Reaper Alim.4176 said:Make rewards scale towards the intensity of each fight. PvDing and avoiding fights, gets your Zerg nearly nothing. Just omni-blobbing, against players who are just completely outnumbered gets your zerg nothing.

Drastically up the rewards giving in WvW. However scale them based off of how many players are tagging said objectives, and players. 2 to 4 players groups rewards don't split as much as say a 50 man or more blobs. Solo players would get better rewards for objectives and player kills, then a blob of 50 or more players just steamrolling others. The longer the fight over a objective the more rewards the zergs get for succeeding to capture or defend it.

Also again unlock the AOE cap. Yes zergs would be able to deal more damage to the smaller group. However that doesn't matter anyways when a group of 15 highly coordinated players go up against map queue blobs. Then because the map queue blob can just magically, ignore a big portion of the smaller group's damage by stacking numbers. Without this crutch Zerglings would have to use more tactics, and be less of a mindless zombie horde. That is the main reason why stacked servers are just so oppressive in GW2's WvW. Removing or highly nerfing the AOE cap, would also make stacking numbers and burning tactics reasonable, and not just plainly overpowered.

I agree that some rewards should scale based off of the difficult of what you are doing in wvw but their needs to be a base amount of wxp and loot given. A steady ram up of rewards if you kill enemies in quick succession or without being downed would be nice. A kill streak system would need to help solo player get increased loot instead of forcing them to find zerg for greater rewards. Before rewarding wvwer based off of the difficulty of a capture or fight, A-net should really look into placing a comeback mechanic into wvw. It would have to make targeting difficult objectives for a weaker server more worthwhile.

As for the AOE cap that is a hardware issue that A-net has stated that they can not remove it without creating more issues in wvw. In EB the biggest fights are SM fights and alot of lag is created because of the damage calculations. Unlocking the damage cap would increase the amount of damage calculation that the servers would have to handle creating more lag.

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@Rangerdeity.5847 said:yes but WvW players have decided to collectivly shut up recently since they are now 100x better than they were prior to pips and reward tracks. but yes the rate of rewards is still absolutely terrible. one would think the most unpredictable and challenging game mode would yield more rewards.

Inb4 pve scrub says WvW just runs around in a blob not fully understanding that your blob consistantly and endlessly runs into the two enemy blobs. this isnt a champion loot farm like you PVE'rs are used to WvW blobs are large scale conflict seeking blobs and only one side gets the loot when the fight turns hot.

In the beginning of the game there were pip system, no reward track, not even rank system and objective upgrades costed gold and karma. Comparing with that makes a lot of players be happy with the current rewards of wvw. It could be improved, but it is not that bad in my point of view. They only improved over the game history. =)

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@Ulion.5476 said:

@Reaper Alim.4176 said:Make rewards scale towards the intensity of each fight. PvDing and avoiding fights, gets your Zerg nearly nothing. Just omni-blobbing, against players who are just completely outnumbered gets your zerg nothing.

Drastically up the rewards giving in WvW. However scale them based off of how many players are tagging said objectives, and players. 2 to 4 players groups rewards don't split as much as say a 50 man or more blobs. Solo players would get better rewards for objectives and player kills, then a blob of 50 or more players just steamrolling others. The longer the fight over a objective the more rewards the zergs get for succeeding to capture or defend it.

Also again unlock the AOE cap. Yes zergs would be able to deal more damage to the smaller group. However that doesn't matter anyways when a group of 15 highly coordinated players go up against map queue blobs. Then because the map queue blob can just magically, ignore a big portion of the smaller group's damage by stacking numbers. Without this crutch Zerglings would have to use more tactics, and be less of a mindless zombie horde.
That is the main reason why stacked servers are just so oppressive in GW2's WvW.
Removing or highly nerfing the AOE cap, would also make stacking numbers and burning tactics reasonable, and not just plainly overpowered.

I agree that some rewards should scale based off of the difficult of what you are doing in wvw but their needs to be a base amount of wxp and loot given. A steady ram up of rewards if you kill enemies in quick succession or without being downed would be nice. A kill streak system would need to help solo player get increased loot instead of forcing them to find zerg for greater rewards. Before rewarding wvwer based off of the difficulty of a capture or fight, A-net should really look into placing a comeback mechanic into wvw. It would have to make targeting difficult objectives for a weaker server more worthwhile.

As for the AOE cap that is a hardware issue that A-net has stated that they can not remove it without creating more issues in wvw. In EB the biggest fights are SM fights and alot of lag is created because of the damage calculations. Unlocking the damage cap would increase the amount of damage calculation that the servers would have to handle creating more lag.

What you just proposed here. Pretty much just rewards players for stacking servers, and stomping lesser populated servers. Your solution would only add to the problem. Not help it.

Also I don't think you even read my post, or you didn't comprehend it at all. Under the solution I stated here. You would get more rewards, with the less players you ran with.

I also even had a middle ground for zergs as well. Being that you are rewarded more, for how intense the battle is. In other words a Zerg just stomping 5 players and PvDing would get nearly nothing. But a zerg of players fighting another zerg of players would be well rewarded for capturing and defending the objective.

I believe this would give more players incentive to split up. Also this would give zerg players more incentive to look for fights, against other zerg groups. But will not reward zerg groups from just simply PvDing uncontested objectives. Or zerglings that just stack one or two servers for easy kills and rewards, would be rewarded much less as well.

But I doubt any real proposal that make stacking and mowing down lessor numbers or PvDing less rewarding. Would be accepted by the GW2 community. Time to just face it. The players of this game just want stack servers and win unchallenged and uncontested. It's the main reason why WvW is offered the least amount of rewards per the effort. Because most players would just stack servers and trample over the much smaller populated servers.

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@VaaCrow.3076 said:I don't play WvW for rewards, i play it to have fun in wvw. Maybe you should reconsider playing if all you care about is getting useless stuff filling your bags.

Funny all i see is wvw clearing out after wvwers get their diamond chest, mid sunday. Also the expansion which was all pve based, pretty much destroyed the wvw population. So I'd say you're in the minority.

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@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@VaaCrow.3076 said:I don't play WvW for rewards, i play it to have fun in wvw. Maybe you should reconsider playing if all you care about is getting useless stuff filling your bags.

Funny all i see is wvw clearing out after wvwers get their diamond chest, mid sunday. Also the expansion which was all pve based, pretty much destroyed the wvw population. So I'd say you're in the minority.

Nah since expansion I now barely plays WvW or PvP. I have another MMO that I WvWish in. I also have a dedicated sPvP game I plays now. Actually since the expansion most of my will, play GW2 at all is darn close to being completely drain.

Rewards from WvW is very very bad compared to the other game modes. If you are just playing WvW in GW2 just for the rewards. Then you are clearly doing many things wrong. Because in PvE, even in PvP you'll get the same rewards in under a fraction of the time. For only a fraction of the effort.

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It makes me very salty when I see the wvw rewards vs the pvp rewards.....

While I do appreciate the... uh... "effort" anet put into wvw with addition of reward tracks and pips.....I still get salty when I see that the wvw pip chests don't give gold while the pvp pip chests gives gold and grandmaster marks. You can even repeat the final chest in pvp for and get 20 gold over and over (while repeating the wvw diamond chests gives pretty much nothing) plus the smaller amounts of gold in the process.I mean come on....pvpers dont even need more than regular (white) gear to play pvp while wvwers do, and yet the pvp ascended gear isn't tied to a ridiculous weekly time gate. If you play enough pvp and win you can get full ascended gear much faster while in wvw you are limited to 1-2 pieces per WEEK on ascended. You need 4 weeks worth of tickets to get a full ascended set in wvw.

And honestly this goes beyond rewards.I simply cannot understand why anet always gives a big "FK YOU" to wvw players in basically every regard.Class/population balance in wvw? -Better open BG to make some $$$.Fixing skill lags in 3-way fights? -Dont think so.Fixing massive bugs like dolyaks getting stuck in gates/not leaving camps or the dumb ebg bug where you get stuck in the ground??? -Noooope.BUT WAIT!Glorious PvE needs a patch to fix some irrelevant bug? -Better kick everyone from wvw asap to fix it. Because fk logic lul.

Ye ok.

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@Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

@VaaCrow.3076 said:I don't play WvW for rewards, i play it to have fun in wvw. Maybe you should reconsider playing if all you care about is getting useless stuff filling your bags.

Funny all i see is wvw clearing out after wvwers get their diamond chest, mid sunday. Also the expansion which was all pve based, pretty much destroyed the wvw population. So I'd say you're in the minority.

I'd hardly call this expansion PvE either. The PvE maps are empty outside bounty trains since there's barely any replayable content, and the rewards are even worse than in WvW. The xpac added no dungeons/fractals, or raid wings with its release.

These PoF maps will be dead in a month or two since they are so bad in rewards and replayability compared to HoT.

At least WvW is pvp, and pvp is spontaneous so you always get new experiences that keep you coming back. It's why LoL can thrive on a single map.

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I think the following would be good improvements consider you make valid points regarding content rewards not being up to par (I'm at work so can't check in game correct me if I'm wrong on any of these):

  • Exotic gear from the vendors needs wider stat selection (lol @ no dire stat of all things....)
  • Introduce more mats/items from WvW for MF/crafting that create solid income for WvWers
  • Ascended trinkets from WvW should at least function parallel to BSF ruby trinkets (e.g; Bloodstone Capacitor to swap stats) considering the cost of Tickets etc

I won't make any comments regarding WvW legendary armor since I'm not working towards it (yet).

I think in general terms loot + rewards have improved in WvW (compare current-day WvW to 2013 variant) but perhaps they could've been better implemented.

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I play wvw to torture my fellow wvw player with my inadequacy and for the rage involved in map chat because of this or that. PvP is no fun as people have no manners and are pretty bu.thurt all the time, wvw mostly does not cross a certain line. Any compensation I get for this is just like covering your expenses if you work for charity.

The introduction of paths and the cost free automatisation of castle defenses are already a big step up from the really dark ages of pay for upgrades wvw, OP.

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I mean even if you look at PvP the rewards are better there too.

Completing the league track rewards you with THREE Grandmaster commendations, meanwhile wvw gives none and wants you to craft them all yourself.

How come finishing diamond every week in wvw doesn't give at least 1? PvP seasons last about 4 weeks. Since you can only earn 3 per season there, and the season lasts 4 weeks, its not that much of a stretch to give 1/week to people who finish the wvw track.

I just find it laughable that the vendor that sells legendary armor precursors for wvw wants you to give him commendations that can only be obtained via crafting, meanwhile pvpers can avoid crafting altogether as they're simply given commendations.

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i agree that wvw has bad rewards, in my opinion it should have the liquid gold rewards from pvp in reward chests like crossing from wood to next one etc like in pvp. the main reason for this is because if you spend 5 hour in pvp you get gold rewards for those 5 hours but wvw ignores that and doesnt reward the same time spent, its basically the game saying this mode is not as important as pvp and deserves less rewards. and if we are honest most of the people who go to wvw care about rewards if they were better the more people would join and the mode would not stagnate or degrade.

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@Jana.6831 said:

@Rennie.6750 said:No, that was just putting things into perspective, if I mentioned the relative privation fallacy, nobody would know what it means.Right now I'm playing a game where I get maybe 5 items (which sell very cheap) a day. So what? When I farmed the silverwastes to get the AP I didn't know where to put all that loot. It really annoyed me and it also annoyed me in wvw in the end because I felt I was clicking wiggle chests more often than clicking on an enemy. I don't get this sentiment, for real. And people complained that much that they're drowning in loot, the TP crumbles (good luck with selling anything your bank is full of) and yet they still complain. I honestly
don't
get it.

ETA: And just saying but your perception of what PvE players are getting is wrong. For teq and for meta events. Like I already said. One dev once said that we're getting more than we think and since I never cared what I was getting (so viewed everything objectively) I agree that WvW is about on par with PvE meta maps, just that bosses usually have yellow items. There is no 'guaranteed yellow' in wvw and that's maybe for the better as the karma trains would roll over everything were that the case.ETA²: And like I also said: The MORE LOOT cries cause also quite a lot of problems. So how about finding another game with better rewards for yourself?

WvW loot on par with PvE!? Go back to your cave little troll.

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Well, its true that WvW doesnt give much gold but who logs in to farm silverwastes anyways. All world bosses are boring, high level fractals are easy and only challenging PvE content in this game are raids that is like 3 hours(?) for full clear in a week, and even that gets repetitive after 1st time.

If they'd base the rewards on how challenging gamemode is, WvW would be terrible. Everyone farming gold there, PvDing towers, PvE guilds getting farmed by each other for gold. Ok, so would this be fun? Truth is, no. WvW is fun because lack of rewards, first of all people need to be mature enough to not play THE GAME just for gold to enter, secondly you will get full legendary armor eventually from doing WvW.

What else do you need? Legendary weapons? Tbf, ascended drop rate from WvW is enough to supply for 80% of the asc weps necessary and you really dont want other than celestial staff with energy + concec sigil on staff for guardian etc, which makes the stat swapping relatively useless unless you wanna swap sigils everytime. lets see Bifrost, swappable stats with awful skin, 3000 gold, thats worth 60 ascended staffs, hmmmm.... Ok, think I made my point clear pointing out that bifrost is just expensive gemstore skin.

If you want enough gold to have LOTS of extra, do that 3 hour PvE raid clear every week, or fractal dailies everyday for 30 min. Simple enough,

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@Threather.9354 said:Well, its true that WvW doesnt give much gold but who logs in to farm silverwastes anyways. All world bosses are boring, high level fractals are easy and only challenging PvE content in this game are raids that is like 3 hours(?) for full clear in a week, and even that gets repetitive after 1st time.

If they'd base the rewards on how challenging gamemode is, WvW would be terrible. Everyone farming gold there, PvDing towers, PvE guilds getting farmed by each other for gold. Ok, so would this be fun? Truth is, no. WvW is fun because lack of rewards, first of all people need to be mature enough to not play THE GAME just for gold to enter, secondly you will get full legendary armor eventually from doing WvW.

What else do you need? Legendary weapons? Tbf, ascended drop rate from WvW is enough to supply for 80% of the asc weps necessary and you really dont want other than celestial staff with energy + concec sigil on staff for guardian etc, which makes the stat swapping relatively useless unless you wanna swap sigils everytime. lets see Bifrost, swappable stats with awful skin, 3000 gold, thats worth 60 ascended staffs, hmmmm.... Ok, think I made my point clear pointing out that bifrost is just expensive gemstore skin.

If you want enough gold to have LOTS of extra, do that 3 hour PvE raid clear every week, or fractal dailies everyday for 30 min. Simple enough,

Agree with most of what you say. But I don't think WvW is fun because "lack of rewards", it only saves us from to many farmers. I also play many classes and mostly roaming, so I have many sets. My Ranger alone has 6 complete exotic Armor sets + 3 ascended Armor sets. The Engie 4 exotics + the same 3 ascended Armor sets. Weapons are about 35-40 ascended luckily Account bound. So yeah, I wouldn't be unhappy for better rewards. At least in about 3 months I have a complete legendary medium Armor set and don't have to worry about gold to try out another build.PS. My gold is earned through TP but it seems I'm not quiet as good as Jana in it.

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