Not the Pirate Ship Meta again.. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Not the Pirate Ship Meta again..

Crazy.6029Crazy.6029 Member ✭✭✭

I can only speak for myself and I wasn't a fan of the pirate ship meta. The reason is its just not fun to have two groups stand across from another ( large scale ) just waiting and hoping for an entry or scanning, otherwise you will hit a wall of 30 shades. I dont know how many people remember the pirate ship meta but I do and If I remember correctly it was mostly disliked for this very reason. We already had enough aoe circles to dodge before and now we have to contend with all that plus a huge amount of shades that do way more damage. I'm a little surprised that you went this way Anet given how stale and empty wvw got after the last pirate ship meta. Please do something. I really don't care which way you go, nerf the shades, buff resistance or add more professions that can provide resistance...give more stab... I dont care really. Just please fix it. Any Ideas to fix this mess are welcome. :)

Comments

  • Sagramor.7395Sagramor.7395 Member ✭✭
    edited October 8, 2017

    Too lazy to find the anet post from the AMA right now, but reading between the lines (maybe not so much) they really screwed up regarding the shade mechanic and what it's capable of at large scale.

    Edit:

    Sorry – it is NOT intended that stacking multiple shades compounds their effects. We’re going to make changes while keeping a close eye on the power of the Scourge across game modes and adjust it over time accordingly. Frankly, the Sand Shades were one of the most controversial (and dangerous!) mechanics we added with the Path of Fire Elite Specs.

    @Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 RE: you're comment below
    There's definitely something to be said for organization and tactics, but with Scourge where it's at right now I'm not sure this is something that can be dealt with through those means alone. But then again I'm on a Merc server, and when I'm not roaming/havoking I'm probably not far from one of those cats you mentioned. ;-)

  • Pirate ship is a symptom of poor organisation and tactics, not AoE. There was always a lot of AoE.

    In order to adapt to this type of meta, people will just have to get better at taking commands and commanders will have to get better at giving them as well as up their game when it comes to tactics.

    For instance, instead of just being a blob following a tag and spamming whatever he/she says to, standing across and pirate-shipping, split into 3 squads with 3 commanders who work together to attack from different angles with different types of damage etc. Feints, False withdrawals, etc etc etc. Herding cats comes to mind though.

    I've not played at T1 so I don't know how good they are, so I can't comment on them, but other tiers I've played at the commanders are nearly identical in their tactics and it's not exactly revolutionary, they have barely changed in 5 years.

  • AoE is not the problem (otherwise zerg busting won't be a thing), tactics could be, but I think the most important problem is still power/condi/cc/corruption creep. When HoT released, we got the pirate ship meta, because there's no way frontline would survive from those spikes and there were just way too many CCs. Then we got boon share meta which frontline would never die. It was nerfed and also stability was slightly buffed, we somehow hit a balance (it's always not good enough, but well). When PoF released, we are back to pirate ship again because again, we don't know how to mitigate those damages and keep the frontline alive. Scourge could be the one to blame because it has too many AoE boon corruption from range, and too many conditions so frontline just melt. Spellbreaker might be ok because it's frontline so they melt anyway.

    To bring this back to normal, I think we could only nerf conditons and corruption, OR buff conditions/corruption/cc mitigations (and that would be another power creep, so I personally don't want to see), along with other classes balance, of course.

  • Jerry CCH.9816Jerry CCH.9816 Member ✭✭✭

    bad player wont learn how to play Range.
    like this EX: https://clips.twitch.tv/ProductiveOriginalDillBleedPurple

    And still cry i hate Pirate Ship Meta :'( :'(

  • A.Net needs to have condi connected to another trait, say precision. I mean Power and Ferocity work together.

    My reason for this is % crit chance is based on Precision. This way if a condi player has low precision, then the condi output would be low to nothing. This way Condi would be squishy and not like they are now.

    The Pirate meta needs to go.

  • Roxanne.6140Roxanne.6140 Member ✭✭✭

    Squishy condi player vs squishy power player, wow what a choice huh.

  • A squishy condi player can still play a relatively safe game compared to a squishy power player. Making condi players dump all their stat budget into damage isn't the answer. And that's coming from a Power player.

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sagramor.7395 said:
    Too lazy to find the anet post from the AMA right now, but reading between the lines (maybe not so much) they really screwed up regarding the shade mechanic and what it's capable of at large scale.

    Edit:

    Sorry – it is NOT intended that stacking multiple shades compounds their effects. We’re going to make changes while keeping a close eye on the power of the Scourge across game modes and adjust it over time accordingly. Frankly, the Sand Shades were one of the most controversial (and dangerous!) mechanics we added with the Path of Fire Elite Specs.

    What does that means? Do they meant multiple shades from the same person? Or mutiple shades from different person?

    Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi Server
    www.gw2time.com

    --

    Explanations of WvW Structures & Populations Issues

  • @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Sagramor.7395 said:
    Too lazy to find the anet post from the AMA right now, but reading between the lines (maybe not so much) they really screwed up regarding the shade mechanic and what it's capable of at large scale.

    Edit:

    Sorry – it is NOT intended that stacking multiple shades compounds their effects. We’re going to make changes while keeping a close eye on the power of the Scourge across game modes and adjust it over time accordingly. Frankly, the Sand Shades were one of the most controversial (and dangerous!) mechanics we added with the Path of Fire Elite Specs.

    What does that means? Do they meant multiple shades from the same person? Or mutiple shades from different person?

    I would believe both, but regardless it's a pretty big OOPS.

  • @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Sagramor.7395 said:
    Too lazy to find the anet post from the AMA right now, but reading between the lines (maybe not so much) they really screwed up regarding the shade mechanic and what it's capable of at large scale.

    Edit:

    Sorry – it is NOT intended that stacking multiple shades compounds their effects. We’re going to make changes while keeping a close eye on the power of the Scourge across game modes and adjust it over time accordingly. Frankly, the Sand Shades were one of the most controversial (and dangerous!) mechanics we added with the Path of Fire Elite Specs.

    What does that means? Do they meant multiple shades from the same person? Or mutiple shades from different person?

    Multiple from the same person. Right now that means very little in WvW as most scourges run sand savant so they are only having 1 out at a time.

  • Pensadora.9478Pensadora.9478 Member ✭✭
    edited October 8, 2017

    @Drekor.5217 Maybe the scourges you are seeing running only 1, but those that understand "stacking multiple shades compounds their effects" are stacking multiple shades. No need for escape portal (sand savant) when everything before you is dead due to the compounding effect of multiple shades from your blob full of scourges.

  • @Pensadora.9478 said:
    @Drekor.5217 Maybe the scourges you are seeing running only 1, but those that understand "stacking multiple shades compounds their effects" are stacking multiple shades. No need for escape portal (sand savant) when everything before you is dead due to the compounding effect of multiple shades from your blob full of scourges.

    If people are standing in one spot long enough to allow Necros to dump multiple shades on them and then cycle through the F abilities I think they pretty much deserve to get melted.

    Or you can move two steps out of those stacked small shades and go kill the Necros that are now staring at a timer while their useless shades hit nobody.

    People are running Sand Savant, which is the 1 big shade and not the portal skill Sand Swell, because of its 300 radius, 5 target cap and ability to almost always have a shade on targets in a moving fight.

  • Junkpile.7439Junkpile.7439 Member ✭✭✭

    Can't wait scourge nerf. I even made full trailblazer gear, but i can't even play it because it's just too op.

    Low quality trolling since launch
    Seafarer's Rest EotM Hero

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If staff on Condi reaper wasn't enough, they gave necromancer another source of ranged instant strike On-point aoe attacks with scourge. So instead of crushing everything within 600 with reaper now they crush everything within 900 with scourge lol.

    I don't think condi scourge is op or anything like that, it's just so damned easy to play, just like reaper, that the ratio of Necromancers in wvw is way too high. Which is something I tried to warn about but all I got was "get good, l2p" level of debate.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Roxanne.6140Roxanne.6140 Member ✭✭✭

    Aaand necro is going to get nerfed soon. Like ele, no clue what it's for.

  • Zoltreez.6435Zoltreez.6435 Member ✭✭✭

    @Justine.6351 said:
    If staff on Condi reaper wasn't enough, they gave necromancer another source of ranged instant strike On-point aoe attacks with scourge. So instead of crushing everything within 600 with reaper now they crush everything within 900 with scourge lol.

    Are you seriously and i mean seeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeriously implying that Necro Staff is Brokenly good ?

    WUT ?!

  • primatos.5413primatos.5413 Member ✭✭✭

    Good that no one is talking about warriors and endelss dodging thiefes resetting fights .. condi spamming mesmers .. and now even weaver -at least at roaming issues- (again) became cancerous .. they just messed up everything because of balancing around precious PVE :(

  • Roxanne.6140Roxanne.6140 Member ✭✭✭

    Speaking of 1v2, what about the warrior? I saw one swag-jumping in our faces across the tower and nobody managed to kill him (smaller scale fight) just a few days ago

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2017

    @Roxanne.6140 said:
    Speaking of 1v2, what about the warrior? I saw one swag-jumping in our faces across the tower and nobody managed to kill him (smaller scale fight) just a few days ago

    Well duh... spellbreaker is on the same level as scourge, if not worse. I have no idea what Anet was thinking putting full counter on 6s cd traited. Other classes with that kind of OP skill have them on 40-50s cd - and they will probably do half of what full counter does.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Trajan.4953Trajan.4953 Member ✭✭✭

    Here we are again Bois!

    Most Scourges winz, EZ bags.

    FML, so boring.

  • Hesacon.8735Hesacon.8735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I was in a zerg with 10 scourges the other night holding a bridge. One enemy spellbreaker wanted to cross the bridge. He ran right through us and escaped to the other side as we were holding that bridge and not pursuing.

  • The meta isn't bad.

    It's nothing like the old pirate shipping.

  • Shirlias.8104Shirlias.8104 Member ✭✭✭✭

    They should modify skills, in order to make em deal 100% dmg on target and 50% dmg on non target ( condi too ).
    It will help both pvp and wvw, and pve will remain untouched ( maybe they will lower the health of adds, but not a big deal ).

  • I don't know about you guys. But me personally, I like pirate ship META. It's soo fun and fast. :trollface:
    https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/879750336747363276/17FA97A4EDF231D24F9F3A72F1D644DFFF07A8A6/

    Pirate ship META is love, Pirate ship META is life! :trollface:

    I am the one and only true Majestic Being.
    I stand now on the precipice of change.
    My perceptions on quality is refined.
    I am now the outsider looking in.
    Next level simi profession troll at your service.
    Bring the lols like no other.

  • starlinvf.1358starlinvf.1358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:

    @Sagramor.7395 said:
    Too lazy to find the anet post from the AMA right now, but reading between the lines (maybe not so much) they really screwed up regarding the shade mechanic and what it's capable of at large scale.

    Edit:

    Sorry – it is NOT intended that stacking multiple shades compounds their effects. We’re going to make changes while keeping a close eye on the power of the Scourge across game modes and adjust it over time accordingly. Frankly, the Sand Shades were one of the most controversial (and dangerous!) mechanics we added with the Path of Fire Elite Specs.

    What does that means? Do they meant multiple shades from the same person? Or mutiple shades from different person?

    There been back and forth about it, but the jist is that multiple shades aren't supposed to overlap damage per tick (aka, they are supposed to share a single damage tick). This is a fundamental problem in the Engine's design that apparently takes a bespoke solution for every skill thats supposed to have a single threaded damage tick, but comes off multi-threaded hit detection. So in theory, each shade belonging to a player is supposed to be part of the same hit detection thread- and should only damage tick once if a target is standing in the overlap of all 5 shades at the same time. But due to the bug/error, each is coming off as their own damage thread.

    The closest example that most people remember is the Guardian symbol bug from the Specialization update, where Symbolic Avenger was stacking multiple times, resulting in +10% damage for EVERY SYMBOL on the enemy. By design, its only supposed to apply +10% ONCE, if it detects the enemy standing in a symbol the guardian owns. But there was a break in the ownership check, and apparently no check for exclusion purposes.... allowing the trait to be triggered multiple times per damage thread.
    Before they fixed it; I bared witness to a Tequatl fight where the first phase was done in less then 20 seconds by a swarm of Hammer Guardians. Single damage ticks were in the 6 digits on the later phases due to the damage multiplier in the burn phase.

    Its extremely important to note this mechanical order, because of a similar fringe case with Explosive turrets from Engie, where detonation of Supply Drop's 3 Turrets all have knock back, but fire in the exact same tick. The problem is the engine has to determine which direction to knock the player back, but has 3 conflicting directions with no inherent order to prioritize an outcome. To resolve it, they either have to prioritize which turret to set the vector for the blowback, use a different algorithm if a conflict is found (like amalgamate/average vector), or ignore the conflict and use an easier to determine vector in its place (detect front or back vector facing of the player, and blow back the target toward the opposite side aligned to their current Y rotational angle. Incidentally, this is the same method they use to detect flanking for certain traits and effects.).

    A similar cap was applied to Slick Shoes, to ensure that the multiple fields it dropped would only trigger knock down once per target across the whole group of fields. Without that, it was theoretically possible to stun lock/stab strip every enemy in a small area, by moving back and forth so an enemy gets caught in multiple fields. Because the field lingers, it makes hit checks every tick and applies knockdown..... so with multiple fields under a target, they'd be instantly knocked down after standing up or stun breaking until those fields expired. With the new check in place, an enemy knocked down by the skill is flagged with immunity from future hits until the skill's effect/thread expires. Applied to Shades: it means if a player is struck by a shade's damage or effect, they are immune to other hits from that (player owned) group of shades if they occur in the same tick and/or effect thread. Hence why the tool tip says "Targets affected by this ability can only be affected once per cast/pulse". But because that limiting rule is broken, each target can be hit by all 3 shades + the necro for a total of 4 hits (thus 4 stacks of the effect) when those skills are used.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Reaper Alim.4176 said:
    I don't know about you guys. But me personally, I like pirate ship META. It's soo fun and fast. :trollface:
    https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/879750336747363276/17FA97A4EDF231D24F9F3A72F1D644DFFF07A8A6/

    Pirate ship META is love, Pirate ship META is life! :trollface:

    If anyone bothers to push.. otherwise it's 30 mins of bombing empty space between zergs.

    "Is there pvp stuff for this?" "Absolutely, eh we actually have a new armor set coming soon."
    "From the back of the room!, the one pvp fan! we got him! WoAH!"
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic ||

  • momophily.3814momophily.3814 Member ✭✭
    edited October 10, 2017

    Pirate ship is boaring. It blows. WVW is why i play GW2. last time we had this meta, it made me stop playing for over a year

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Roxanne.6140 said:
    Speaking of 1v2, what about the warrior? I saw one swag-jumping in our faces across the tower and nobody managed to kill him (smaller scale fight) just a few days ago

    Well duh... spellbreaker is on the same level as scourge, if not worse. I have no idea what Anet was thinking putting full counter on 6s cd traited. Other classes with that kind of OP skill have them on 40-50s cd - and they will probably do half of what full counter does.

    Yes...We are on the same level as condi/aoe spammers that do damage to people they dont even know they were there,great kitten comparison.

    Why do some people randomly complain about "This one guy that ran bla bla and no one could kill them !" Ever stop to think that some people might actually know what theyre doing instead of crying on the forum to nerf this and that ?

  • Roxanne.6140Roxanne.6140 Member ✭✭✭

    @Caedmon.6798 said:

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Roxanne.6140 said:
    Speaking of 1v2, what about the warrior? I saw one swag-jumping in our faces across the tower and nobody managed to kill him (smaller scale fight) just a few days ago

    Well duh... spellbreaker is on the same level as scourge, if not worse. I have no idea what Anet was thinking putting full counter on 6s cd traited. Other classes with that kind of OP skill have them on 40-50s cd - and they will probably do half of what full counter does.

    Yes...We are on the same level as condi/aoe spammers that do damage to people they dont even know they were there,great kitten comparison.

    Why do some people randomly complain about "This one guy that ran bla bla and no one could kill them !" Ever stop to think that some people might actually know what theyre doing instead of crying on the forum to nerf this and that ?

    then why do people complain about scourge that deals aoe damage when that is their role in wvw?
    You can't deny that spellbreakers are only getting better and better in 1v1, 1v2, 1v3 fights in wvw. The truth is, he was not only running "bla bla" and nobody could kill him, he could kill people who ran to duel him as well. Spellbreakers are op in wvw roaming and needs nerf.

  • coglin.1496coglin.1496 Member ✭✭✭

    Because they get to overpoweringly fill more the one role. They also fill the role of AoE boon stripping, and the role of AoE CC. Yet the Nerf engineers, rangers, and thieves for doing even one of those well, on only single targets.

    Do not confuse your objective opinion with that of objective fact. Remember, what you say matters, not what you meant to say.

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