Soulbeast is weak

[Aomine.5012]

@Vitali.5039 said:

@Aomine.5012 said:Have fun killing anyone with bear transformation lolz.

That don't prevent the weapon set usage unlike reaper's/death shroud. Its not like you'll go biting to death foes..

Yep you get your resistance, hurray, with long cd and no damage.

And a 3s cd Damage immunity, it could be handy in many situations

You think Spellbreaker works only cuz of sustain? Their Full Counter doing 8k Aoe damage, aoe stun, and transfer 5 conditions bombed by Scourge to the enemy's team , with so many access to resistance and large passive healing while dodging/ blocking is the main reason why they're so strong.

No, and I don't read anywhere where you could have read so. Soulbeast don't play as SB and comparing it to a dedicated PvP class is like to compare a PvP reaper with a PvP scrapper.

Your theory of Bear Soulbeast will work only when they add in swap pet during beast mode, or removal of Soulbeast unmerged CD, or else you'd be stuck with Bear for too long to do anything meaningful within the time you get access to resistance.

Sure it can work in WvW because there'll be someone covering you up, and your personal dps doesn't matter cuz other can carry you, but in pvp you're just a liability with low pressure and still subpar sustain.

[Mutaatti.2789]

@Vitali.5039 said:No, and I don't read anywhere where you could have read so. Soulbeast don't play as SB and comparing it to a dedicated PvP class is like to compare a PvP reaper with a PvP scrapper.

Dedicated? Well it feels dedicated atm, but there shouldnt be "dedicated" PvP classes and PvE classes. Builds maybe, but not entire class.

[Vitali.5039]

@Aomine.5012 said:

@Vitali.5039 said:

@Aomine.5012 said:Have fun killing anyone with bear transformation lolz.

That don't prevent the weapon set usage unlike reaper's/death shroud. Its not like you'll go biting to death foes..

Yep you get your resistance, hurray, with long cd and no damage.

And a 3s cd Damage immunity, it could be handy in many situations

You think Spellbreaker works only cuz of sustain? Their Full Counter doing 8k Aoe damage, aoe stun, and transfer 5 conditions bombed by Scourge to the enemy's team , with so many access to resistance and large passive healing while dodging/ blocking is the main reason why they're so strong.

No, and I don't read anywhere where you could have read so. Soulbeast don't play as SB and comparing it to a dedicated PvP class is like to compare a PvP reaper with a PvP scrapper.

Your theory of Bear Soulbeast will work only when they add in swap pet during beast mode, or removal of Soulbeast unmerged CD, or else you'd be stuck with Bear for too long to do anything meaningful within the time you get access to resistance.

Sure it can work in WvW because there'll be someone covering you up, and your personal dps doesn't matter cuz other can carry you, but in pvp you're just a liability with low pressure and still subpar sustain.

My vote goes to make twice as vicious also refresh Beast Mode on pet swap. A 5%p+5%c modifier for 4 seconds is kinda poor, more effects are needed.Bear's heal+resistance is mainly for buy time for Bear's Stance to restore huge HP to the Soul Beast and the allies within range with a traited Leader of the Pack.Essence of Speed can turn the resistance from a "meh" to an "ok" duration with Agility sigil (I use it like this).

Its not like sustained damage isn't important but burst is better for PvP, sure in a WvW zerg you'll be running another build.

@Mutaatti.2789 said:

@Vitali.5039 said:No, and I don't read anywhere where you could have read so. Soulbeast don't play as SB and comparing it to a dedicated PvP class is like to compare a PvP reaper with a PvP scrapper.

Dedicated? Well it feels dedicated atm, but there shouldnt be "dedicated" PvP classes and PvE classes. Builds maybe, but not entire class.

I feel the same but that is, a dedicated PvP e-spec.

[LughLongArm.5460]

Soulbeast is an exceptional unique status, it's to buggy, unfinished, premature, unpolished, for us to even judge if it's weak or strong. Kinda reminds me revenants at their first beta weekend release. It's not ready for the PvP forum, after A.net will complete development for this specialization, we can discuss about it's place and performance at the pvp environment and meta. Lots of discussion on the ranger forum, you are welcome to contribute.

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

@LughLongArm.5460 said:Soulbeast is an exceptional unique status, it's to buggy, unfinished, premature, unpolished, for us to even judge if it's weak or strong. Kinda reminds me revenants at their first beta weekend release. It's not ready for the PvP forum, after A.net will complete development for this specialization, we can discuss about it's place and performance at the pvp environment and meta. Lots of discussion on the ranger forum, you are welcome to contribute.

Yeah, well, they should have finished the spec before selling it to their players.

Anyway, Soulbeast in PvP right now is a bit of a gimmick. It can be pretty strong, but only because everything revolves around Scourges (which Soulbeasts can take down from long range pretty easily on certain maps). As soon as it's possible to contest a Scourge-held point with a bruiser without instantly melting, that niche will disappear.

[snh.7091]

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@LughLongArm.5460 said:Soulbeast is an exceptional unique status, it's to buggy, unfinished, premature, unpolished, for us to even judge if it's weak or strong. Kinda reminds me revenants at their first beta weekend release. It's not ready for the PvP forum, after A.net will complete development for this specialization, we can discuss about it's place and performance at the pvp environment and meta. Lots of discussion on the ranger forum, you are welcome to contribute.

Yeah, well, they should have finished the spec before selling it to their players.

They had a deadline. It's obvious. The expac is grossly unfinished.

[pcgamefreak.5208]

The concept of Condi doesn't work.  It doesn't even really surprise me that the developers can't even see their own concept is broken.

 

Pure condi builds are fun but will not get you a win in WvW(pvp).  Why?  Because there's too much cleansing and condi damage reduction in WvW.

 

Consider this....

 

If you are hit by a power build player, even after all resistance to damage is calculated, you still get a final value of high damage that is subtracted from your total health.  You can not cleanse this damage because it's is not damage over time (ticks).  So if you're struck with a crit hit and your health drops 7k, the player that hit you just extremely lowered you health if you're not even at 30k overall health.  Players that are power builds can win any one on one encounter with a condi build and this is where the developers messed up....

 

As a condi only damage player (because you're not going to have any real power while stacking conditional damage), your damage is spread out over slow ticks.  The problem with that is, THERE'S NO BASE DAMAGE THAT CAN'T BE WASHED OUT!  Hello..."Devs!"

 

If a condi Necro (for example) inficts 10k worth of damage on a player, from multiple corruptions, the Necro will never see that 10k because the enemy player will either cleanse, block, dodge or immune to all damage.  Throw in condi damage reductions from toughness, etc etc and you're now seeing little ticks of damage on screen like 150, 250, 300, 398, etc etc (sometimes 1k from fear damage).  You will NEVER win like that!  The developers have not even given pure condi builds a chance!  Keep in mind, players are moving targets,  they are not going to stand there and let you place multiple corruptions on them, so you're not going to get those enormous stacks on a player to begin with.  They're not NPCs!

 

Pure condi builds need a base damage that can not be  cleansed or immuned to in anyway!  Just dodge or block but if it hits, NO!  One tick of 70% of the damage (guaranteed) and the last 30% placed in ticks.  The condi player may never even see the last 30% but at least they have a chance to win against a power player who will get theirs every time they land a hit.

 

By pure condi build, I mean a conditional attribute of at least 1650 to 1800 because if you're stacking that high on condi, your power is going to be weak.  The developers can determine if a player is fighting with conditions versus fighting with power just by those values.  Players that are power builds but inflict corruptions should not received the base condi damage, that's how you make it balanced, condi vs power and give condi players a chance to live in WvW on a(n) random attack by a power player.

 

Of course power build players will NOT want to see condi damage get cleaned up in this way because they'll be afraid of having condi only players competitive.  Let me ease your fear power players.  For staters, the developers are never going to do this because that's too much like right.  Secondly, you will still have the edge because even if a condi player is getting 70 percent of corruptions as base damage guaranteed (with the 30% not guaranteed), you power players are getting 100 percent of the damage you're going to deal and if you can't win against a condi with that kind of gap in damage, then the condi player did a good job at staying alive long enough to win.

 

The way it stands now...it doesn't work for condi players.  All damage is being blocked, dodged, cleansed, immuned to.  This is coming from experience by playing a pure condi damage build character so this is feed back, not criticism and if anyone claims to be pure condi and deny this, you're telling a lie because the concepts of damage over time being cleansed versus damage that's final speaks for itself.  I really don't understand how the developers could even make such a bad decision to begin with because for me, that right thing would have been common sense.

 

Right now, there is only one attribute and one kind of build if you want to win in WvW(pvp) (which is so boring)....

 

POWER!!!!!

 

You're not going to cleanse that...  That's not going to "dot" damage over time either.  If I land it, I'm going to get it with power!

 

 

Forgive 'typos',

 

Peace.

 

 

[Khalisto.5780]

yes, the eod classes are more powerful, plus all the projectile hate going on doesnt help

 

once they nerf earth shield only ele mains will be running tempest and cata, also the uber bunker warrior won't be able to facetank all your highest dmg skills and stay alive.

 

On the other hand you'll face more untamed that also have projectile blocks and do more dmg than you and virtuoso that are sort of a natural counter since you need that target to land your lb skills

 

despite all those things I still come across some hybrid soulbeasts doing well, high mobility they burst you from far when you ready yourself to for the gs burst they go invis and fill your kitten with condis, which you prolly not ready for.

 

Soulbeast has the dmg numbers, it's just a bad meta for it 

[Myror.7521]

@Horace.8524 ah well good then that conditions somtimes been able to let u die in like 3 seconds if you not clean them. Or they just kill ya while you cleanes them before cause you dont wait long enough for the full Stacks comb been on you. Or they kill ya even while the enemy just play a Power build. I get your point of course conditions are weak. Letz be real the only reason Power is meta are classes like untamed /Herald / thief where most builds could 100%-0% life ya in 2 seconds out of port/stealth. Just nerf those builds and we will get a condi meta again for sure. But no one want that happen cause of how spamy most condi builds are naturaly xd