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Mounts unhealthy for core player experience ?


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Having mounts and gliders is not game changing for F2P people. I like everyone else ran around , and doing the content which you don't need mounts for. Mounts and gliders are a perk for people who purchased HOT and POF. These mounts just help get across content that most have already done on other characters. The only thing I have seen is when people on raptors tail swipe lower level mobs during events, which can get frustrating. If they want a mount buy POF like the rest of us.

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@EpicBanHammer.7521 said:Is it unfair? Absolutely. Is the solution to just pay for the xpacs, because everything is locked behind them? Absolutely.

How is it unfair? You want a toy you should have to pay for it. Standing outside of a toy store with your hand out isn't going to get you that special matchbox or whatever is hot these days. Go in and buy it otherwise do without.

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There is nothing wrong or unhealthy about having aspects of the game only available if you purchase the expansions. This makes sense in terms of players and developers. If I start playing a game that has been out for a while and buy only the part of the game I don't expect to have access to part that I didn't purchase, that makes no sense.

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@AdFinitum.1976 said:Hi,

players with mounts have a huge advantage over F2P players that is way beyond the previous limitations and way more noticable. One could argue that free players should take it as is since they play for free.

That's exactly what I argue,as a veteran player who bought the game+expansions I PRETEND to have huge advantages over F2P players, I don't care if they'll be discouraged to play anymore.

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@Danikat.8537 said:Mounts definitely provide some advantages in the base game, in certain situations.But there is absolutely nothing in the base game that requires gliders or mounts, .....

So, let's translate:

  1. The mounts provide some advantage - if you buy PoF and after that you buy the mounts. What is the definition of pay to win?
  2. "But there is absolutely nothing in the base game that requires gliders or mounts, ....." So, even if the mounts were absolutely not necessary in core Tyria, the developers introduced them in the game. Hm - I try to find a definition for persons doing unnecessary things and then forcing them to the others.Pff - and I asked myself why the story sounds so irrational. But by reading the AMA for PoF where someone says that every story team member had contribution to the content too (and I guess vice-versa is true also) the things started to explain itself.

Ah - an even funnier thing: even if the players don't need mounts in core Tyria, they use it. In order to trivialize the content. In this way they have more time to complain they have nothing to do in game :)

GW2 is (or is intended to be) a long game. And in a long game, any unnecessary move is a bad move.

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Of course mounts provide an advantage... it goes without saying.Do I have one.. yesDo I use it in core maps... yesDoes that make it right... maybe/ maybe not

This could be a double edged sword for ANET .. it could push players into upgrading to HoT / PoF but equally it may frustrate those players especially if they are unable to purchase upgrades for whatever reason... so using that argument is just plain stupid.

That said core maps don't require mounts or even gliders until maybe dry top or silverwastes but speed is a much more noticeable issue especially when considering events, dailies and champagne trains like after silverware meta... the amount of ground speed covered is insanely OP and often mean players miss out.. when that happens players get frustrated and often don't bother comING back, which helps no one.

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@Cristalyan.5728 said:

@Danikat.8537 said:Mounts definitely provide some advantages in the base game, in certain situations.But there is absolutely nothing in the base game that requires gliders or mounts, .....

So, let's translate:
  1. The mounts provide some advantage - if you
    buy
    PoF and after that you
    buy
    the mounts. What is the definition of pay to win?

Mounts are not pay to win. They are part of the game which is buy to play. This has nothing to do with the free TRIAL people can chose to try out.

@Cristalyan.5728 said:

  1. "But there is absolutely nothing in the base game that requires gliders or mounts, ....." So, even if the mounts were absolutely not necessary in core Tyria, the developers introduced them in the game. Hm - I try to find a definition for persons doing unnecessary things and then forcing them to the others.Pff - and I asked myself why the story sounds so irrational. But by reading the AMA for PoF where someone says that every story team member had contribution to the content too (and I guess vice-versa is true also) the things started to explain itself.

Ah - an even funnier thing: even if the players don't need mounts in core Tyria, they use it. In order to trivialize the content. In this way they have more time to complain they have nothing to do in game :)

GW2 is (or is intended to be) a long game. And in a long game, any unnecessary move is a bad move.

Free to play TRIAL (best repeat this as often as needed until it sinks in: trial trial trial) players have the ability to experience the game as it was as vanilla version. Expansions obviously enhance the game experience. By your definition every single expansion for other MMOs is pay to win. The only difference is in other MMOs you get an increased level cap and have to regear. Here since the level cap stays the same and you can even get the same gear in the core game (quality wise, some stat combinations are locked to expansions) suddenly an expansion is pay to win. Hilarious.

The entitlement in some people is strong, very strong.

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Core player experience? You mean F2P players, aka free demo players? Listen, a business can't survive on just love and happiness from its playerbase, it needs money to survive. In a game where you pay no subscription fee, the least you can do is pull out $30 for an expac every 2 years. It's absolutely nothing. People spend more than that on parties, dinners, etc each month/week! $30 across two years = $0.04 a day. The only way Anet survives as a company is with expac sales and gem purchases from its large playerbase.

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The main argument seems to be that there is no issue with F2P players doing things slower without actually being limited in what they can do in core Tyria. This is correct. However the main issue I wanted to express is based on my experience :

I was a core / F2P player at the time of PoF release. I already played core GW2 for a while and knew I like the game and realized that mounts and the power creep introduced with PoF leave me with one of two choices - stop playing altogether or buy the expacs. To be more precise - everytime I moved to the next heart and someone flew by me at roughly 3 times my movement speed it felt bad - so bad that I left the game several times. This - never - was the case before mounts. Crouching from Heart to heart was fine since everyone had to do it. But an expansion that nullifies this one huge downside is actually a game changer - so core players don't actually play / test the current game anymore.

The issues is that : if that happens to new players testing the game and they come to the conclusion they either have to stop playing the game because they can't participate / compete at all or buy the expacs they will just stop playing. Because unlike me they didn't stay long enough to get to know GW2 for its beaty and fun sides.

And when core players don't stay they won't buy which could lead to too few people populating expansion areas. One must not forget that every expac has a lower player base I am sure. It is like a series - viewerbase will drop over time. Same with expacs - every new expac will get less buyers ( especially since new customers have to buy all previous expansions to get the full game ). I am pretty sure no one has as much fun anymore when there aren't enough players anymore to populate all areas. To be honest expac areas already feel slightly underpopulated - especially in deeper areas.

My concern is not the disadvantages F2P have ( I played with that for quiet a while and it was enjoyable - which is not neccessarily the case anymore ) - my concern is that they won't join our precious world but instead abandon it.

The game won't sell if F2P testers abandon it. And mounts passing by would have tipped me off during my testing phase if I hadn't started playing way before. Having a base mount with less movement speed would be more motivation to stay and eventually buy the expac IMHO.

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@Cyninja.2954 said:

Mounts are not pay to win. They are part of the game which is buy to play. This has nothing to do with the free TRIAL people can chose to try out.

Free to play TRIAL (best repeat this as often as needed until it sinks in: trial trial trial) players have the ability to experience the game as it was as vanilla version. Expansions obviously enhance the game experience. By your definition every single expansion for other MMOs is pay to win. The only difference is in other MMOs you get an increased level cap and have to regear. Here since the level cap stays the same and you can even get the same gear in the core game (quality wise, some stat combinations are locked to expansions) suddenly an expansion is pay to win. Hilarious.

The entitlement in some people is strong, very strong.

Well, maybe you are new in this game so you discovered the core game as a f2p game. But, if you don't know, in the beginning the core game was not f2p. It was a buy to play. And a major selling point was that no annoying things from other games will pollute it - one of that "bad" things was the "pay to win" aspect.Now, if what you say is true, I mean: "Mounts are not pay to win. They are part of the game which is buy to play. This has nothing to do with the free TRIAL people can chose to try out.", and taking into account the fact that lot of players bought the core game (more than 11 millions according to ANet) - that means for them the core is buy to play- it seems that ANet gave them all some mounts. Or is not so? HM?

It seems your statement is a little bit inaccurate. The correct statement may be: "Mounts are not pay to win. They belong to a part of the game which is buy to play". Well, this is what OP said - the mounts have no place in Tyria. They belong to another part of the game.

And about your free to play TRIAL obsession: I have nothing against the mounts in the expansion - this is what you bought. But in Tyria ... this damages the game experience for all the players who bought the vanilla GW2.

@AdFinitum.1976 said:

My concern is not the disadvantages F2P have ( I played with that for quiet a while and it was enjoyable - which is not neccessarily the case anymore ) - my concern is that they won't join our precious world but instead abandon it.

The game won't sell if F2P testers abandon it. And mounts passing by would have tipped me off during my testing phase if I hadn't started playing way before.

Exactly this. I'm worried about this also.But it seems that the others are not. They bought the expansion to have an advantage over the others (but this is not pay to win). To keep this advantage they don't care about the future. Even if this is the future of the game they play.

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Take this nicely. If you enjoy the game, then support it so they have a future of further developing. You get plenty for free, more than enough than most MMOs, and at some point you have to decide if you want to buy the xpacs, otherwise you can't expect people who decided to support the game to agree with you wanting paid content to be delivered to you. You're playing for free to try, not to have everything and of course those who've upgraded are going to have an advantage, what else do you expect? Also people actually had to BUY what you get now for free. There's plenty given for you to make a decision, everyone else did it, so can you.

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Plain and simple you want something special added to the core game for f2p players then they can pay the cost. They can pay the full price for the core game like lots of other players did when it first came out($49.99). Gliders ,and mounts are gimmicks added to HoT ,and PoF to get around those maps. As an added bonus they let us use them in core game ,but we payed to play with them so why would they limit us. The game went a little over 3 yrs before releasing HoT ,and it took some time after that before those who bought HoT could use gliders on core maps. No disadvantage is present just f2p looking for more free stuff even though they are already getting the core game experience for nothing.

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@Cristalyan.5728 said:

@Cyninja.2954 said:

Mounts are not pay to win. They are part of the game which is
buy to play
. This has nothing to do with the free
TRIAL
people can chose to try out.

Free to play
TRIAL
(best repeat this as often as needed until it sinks in: trial trial trial) players have the ability to experience the game as it was as vanilla version. Expansions obviously enhance the game experience. By your definition every single expansion for other MMOs is pay to win. The only difference is in other MMOs you get an increased level cap and have to regear. Here since the level cap stays the same and you can even get the same gear in the core game (quality wise, some stat combinations are locked to expansions) suddenly an expansion is pay to win. Hilarious.

The entitlement in some people is strong, very strong.

Well, maybe you are new in this game so you discovered the core game as a f2p game. But, if you don't know, in the beginning the core game was not
f2p
. It was a
buy to play
. And a major selling point was that no annoying things from other games will pollute it - one of that "bad" things was the "pay to win" aspect.Now, if what you say is true, I mean: "Mounts are not pay to win. They are part of the game which is
buy to play
. This has nothing to do with the free
TRIAL
people can chose to try out.", and taking into account the fact that lot of players bought the core game (more than 11 millions according to ANet) - that means for them the core is
buy to play
- it seems that ANet gave them all some mounts. Or is not so? HM?

It seems your statement is a little bit inaccurate. The correct statement may be: "Mounts are not pay to win. They
belong to a
part of the game which is
buy to play
". Well, this is what OP said - the mounts have no place in Tyria. They belong to another part of the game.

And about your
free to play TRIAL
obsession: I have nothing against the mounts in the expansion - this is what you bought. But in Tyria ... this damages the game experience for all the players who
bought
the vanilla GW2.

@AdFinitum.1976 said:

My concern is not the disadvantages F2P have ( I played with that for quiet a while and it was enjoyable - which is not neccessarily the case anymore ) - my concern is that they won't join our precious world but instead abandon it.

The game won't sell if F2P testers abandon it. And mounts passing by would have tipped me off during my testing phase if I hadn't started playing way before.

Exactly this. I'm worried about this also.But it seems that the others are not. They
bought
the expansion to have an
advantage
over the others (but this is not pay to win). To keep this advantage they don't care about the future. Even if this is the future of the game they play.

I'm not new to the game. I've been with the game ever since the 3 day headstart and had it preordered even far bevor that (on the day it became available).

The core game is not available for purchase, it's been converted to a free to play trial (with some less restrictions).

If you purchased the core game 5 years ago, you've gotten your moneys worth many many many times over. People meet, marry and start families in 5 years, they finish their education in 5 years, they might even buy a new car every 5 years. You've gotten your moneys worth.

Those 60 bucks you spent back then are worth 1.5 developer hours of pay. The game has not been running on your purchse ever since then. It's been funded and payed for by people who have been spending money on the game regularly and voluntarily. You are welcome. Stop feeling entitled.

That aside though, TC was specifically talking about free to play players. You kinda missed the ball on that point.

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@Cristalyan.5728 said:

@Danikat.8537 said:Mounts definitely provide some advantages in the base game, in certain situations.But there is absolutely nothing in the base game that requires gliders or mounts, .....

So, let's translate:
  1. The mounts provide some advantage - if you
    buy
    PoF and after that you
    buy
    the mounts. What is the definition of pay to win?
  2. "But there is absolutely nothing in the base game that requires gliders or mounts, ....." So, even if the mounts were absolutely not necessary in core Tyria, the developers introduced them in the game. Hm - I try to find a definition for persons doing unnecessary things and then forcing them to the others.Pff - and I asked myself why the story sounds so irrational. But by reading the AMA for PoF where someone says that every story team member had contribution to the content too (and I guess vice-versa is true also) the things started to explain itself.

Ah - an even funnier thing: even if the players don't need mounts in core Tyria, they use it. In order to trivialize the content. In this way they have more time to complain they have nothing to do in game :)

GW2 is (or is intended to be) a long game. And in a long game, any unnecessary move is a bad move.

I'm going to assume you're a f2p player. Correct me if i'm wrong, this is just an assumption based on your reactions.

  1. You don't win anything with mounts. Like, at all, you gain some movement speed and options but that's it. Compared to free players, you're not in any advantage over getting from A to B faster and it's not a competition so there's nothing to win. Mounts are disabled in competitive areas and most jumping puzzles, just like gliders.
  2. No there isn't anything in the base game that requires mounts, and what you have now for free, 99% of us had to pay for when it launched so be grateful that you have huge amount of content (and well done content) for free. Nobody is forcing you to buy PoF if you don't want to explore the story further or visit the crystal desert. The same goes for gliders and HoT. They were introduced as PoF content and are reqiured to traverse those maps just like gliders and masteries are required to traverse HoT maps. This gives the game that metroidvania feel which me and a lot of people like.
  3. You're forgetting one thing. Most of the people who come to core tyria with mounts already have 100% map completion which means they did all of it without it and are now just doing a daily thing (forager, miner, events). So if it trivializes content, fine, we did this all already, now after getting to max level and working on our masteries, having the first content be trivial is a good thing. It's called progression.

So to translate further:

"Someone else has something shiny! I want that shiny but i don't want to pay for it!"

If you want mounts buy PoF like the rest of people.

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@Suziana.3759 said:The free to play player base are not at a disadvantage because there is no area in core Tyria that can't be reached without a mount. Mounts are a mechanic in PoF due to the structure of the new maps, and needing mounts to transverse the landscape and reach these areas. We've been playing GW2 for years without mounts; there is nothing mounts provide that is an advantage over anything in core Tyria. It just gives players better quality of life of not having to walk everywhere. The F2P version is more of a trial to try out the game with an indefinite time limit. I don't think anyone is meant to play GW2 for free without upgrading at some point.

Exactly! Plus once you decide you want more of the game (and/or can afford to do so) it is not a huge investment to get the current expansion to upgrade, do it whenever you want. Compare it to a popular buy+sub game and it is a puzzlement why a B2P game went F2P in the first place.

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@Cristalyan.5728 said:

Exactly this. I'm worried about this also.But it seems that the others are not. They bought the expansion to have an advantage over the others (but this is not pay to win). To keep this advantage they don't care about the future. Even if this is the future of the game they play.

What advantage do people have with mounts over those without mounts? Come on, tell me an example... Not just an imaginary one, a real one.People didn't buy PoF to have an advantage over f2p players, they bought it because most of them already did the content you're complaining about now (and are enjoying for free while the majority of the players had to pay for what you're playing free now). So since most players already did 100% map completion in core tyria and probably also HoT, they bought it for some new game content which happen to be mounts among other things. They certainly didn't buy it just to "win" at core tyria maps.

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Minus a few business practices, I find GW2 set up for things are almost perfect.No subscription, no "premium accounts", you get to experience the whole game (game, not expansion) to your whim.

The most restrictions are like shouts in chat, mailing items, certain AH items, and so on and so forth.If you give a little (as in buy the upgraded core game), you gain something... or if you get either of the expansions you gain something PLUS more of the game that was... well expanded on.

I felt the same with glider (Well not THIS bad) where I would see people with a glider and I wish I had one because I had to try and find my way down from things without dying or certain jumps/gaps were not possible for me.Hell, I still feel the same way in places like WVW as I have no glider there and I only play WvW like once every coming of Jesus or so... but I know that if I wanted it badly, I would go and get it.

I haven't bought a game in a long time (think the last game I bought was a year or 2 ago), so I see no problem simply spending a little money onto this game that I know I'm playing quite a bit lately.And if "Core Players" been playing for quite a while too, you can't expect upgrades to come for free.

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ANet is in the business of making money. In a virtual online world, that's all about creating scarcity. If a f2p player saw someone on a mount and said to themselves "I don't want one of those, seems like a huge hassle, hitting x all the time.", that doesn't make ANet money. They could easily have enabled mounts on PoF maps only, no great mystery why they didn't do that.

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@ThePlayMaker.1058 said:Core player experience? You mean F2P players, aka free demo players? Listen, a business can't survive on just love and happiness from its playerbase, it needs money to survive. In a game where you pay no subscription fee, the least you can do is pull out $30 for an expac every 2 years. It's absolutely nothing. People spend more than that on parties, dinners, etc each month/week! $30 across two years = $0.04 a day. The only way Anet survives as a company is with expac sales and gem purchases from its large playerbase.

I can see some people not being able to afford a game but having the time to play it, students or someone who is unemployed. The fact is though up until the game went f2p everyone had bought it (well, I am guessing not anet employees and reviewers, but they are hardly the norm). People who are f2p are already getting free content.

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@Lambent.6375 said:With everyone zooming around on mounts, it would be difficult for people without mounts to keep up. No, waypoints aren't enough, with mounts like the springer you can literally jump over walls/"mountains" that you use to have to run around, greatly reducing the time it takes to get some places.

Isn't it a great idea to either buy the expansions and/or proceed into the game in that matter?You could also project this on literally anything. I, for example, would not mind the Predator, but I do not craft nor farm, so I go with my trustworthy default Rifle. Do you want to remove legendary things now, too, because all the newbies could get sad and/or angry because others have it?

Sorry, this game is not a cellphone minigame made for Millienials with instant gratification just because someone could start cry over it..Back when I started to play MMO(RPG)s, I saw something awessome and looked forward to get there by myself by playing the game, the whole point of it. Like college for a better paid job. A motivation to do things, to get up and getthing things done.

If you are here on a freebie, please don't ruin the feel for everyone else.

Excelsior.

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