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Mounts unhealthy for core player experience ?


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@Tasida.4085 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Tasida.4085 said:

@Bloodstealer.5978 said:

@Tasida.4085 said:

Wow why not go back and actually read what I said. Slowly this time. I was pointing out turnover rates are always high in mmo's. It wasn't about why F2P is brought in but why it doesn't matter if F2p players stay or go. LOL. And advocates for F2P getting mounts etc is daft. If you advocate them getting everything paying customers do then by all means buy each 1 the game n xpacs out of your own pocket (advocates). Then they can have all the toys as well :)

Maybe take some of that same advice.. I know what you said and in answer I just disagreed with you ideology.Perhaps you could show me where I advocate F2P having the goodies.. look up, read very, very slowly and you might see where on several occasions I state F2P have no argument in this thread because they are merely on a trial not a B2P player who purchased the core or HoT but are yet to purchase PoF.

It 's ok though, apology accepted.. ..

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@"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:I’m leaning towards nonexpansion/f2p being able to buy from the gemstore both a basic mount (PvE only) and basic glider where the basic mount is only at 33% speed and the basic glider has only half the glide distance of a regular first level glider. For one thing this will allow ANet to sell glider and backpack/glider combos in the gem store to more people. They can also sell the basic 33% speed boost mount in the gemstore to these people. If they want to upgrade to a regular glider or mount they’ll need to buy the expansion.

Or they could create a couple of "borrow mount" sites, perhaps one per zone. You can grab a raptor in HoT, a skimmer in Maguuma, a springer for talk shows Shiverpeaks. You wouldn't be able to use the special action keys and you'd lose the mount upon interact/combat. It would give F2P, Core-only, and HoT-only a chance to try them out, without offering all the convenience that purchasing PoF would unlock.

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@Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

@"Just a flesh wound.3589" said:I’m leaning towards nonexpansion/f2p being able to buy from the gemstore both a basic mount (PvE only) and basic glider where the basic mount is only at 33% speed and the basic glider has only half the glide distance of a regular first level glider. For one thing this will allow ANet to sell glider and backpack/glider combos in the gem store to more people. They can also sell the basic 33% speed boost mount in the gemstore to these people. If they want to upgrade to a regular glider or mount they’ll need to buy the expansion.

Or they could create a couple of "borrow mount" sites, perhaps one per zone. You can grab a raptor in HoT, a skimmer in Maguuma, a springer for
talk shows
Shiverpeaks. You wouldn't be able to use the special action keys and you'd lose the mount upon interact/combat. It would give F2P, Core-only, and HoT-only a chance to try them out, without offering all the convenience that purchasing PoF would unlock.

That’s a thought. However my suggestion also doesn’t have all the conveniences of purchasing PoF as the mount would only have 33% speed, not super speed, and wouldn’t have any of the other abilities. In addition, other than getting and riding around once in a zone, losing it on combat would be annoyance and make not worth using once you’ve tried it. It would be on ignore for those who are going more than a few feet and stopping to kill things, do Hearts, etc.

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@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:I’m leaning towards nonexpansion/f2p being able to buy from the gemstore both a basic mount (PvE only) and basic glider where the basic mount is only at 33% speed and the basic glider has only half the glide distance of a regular first level glider. For one thing this will allow ANet to sell glider and backpack/glider combos in the gem store to more people. They can also sell the basic 33% speed boost mount in the gemstore to these people. If they want to upgrade to a regular glider or mount they’ll need to buy the expansion.

Or they could create a couple of "borrow mount" sites, perhaps one per zone. You can grab a raptor in HoT, a skimmer in Maguuma, a springer for
talk shows
Shiverpeaks. You wouldn't be able to use the special action keys and you'd lose the mount upon interact/combat. It would give F2P, Core-only, and HoT-only a chance to try them out, without offering all the convenience that purchasing PoF would unlock.

That’s a thought. However my suggestion also doesn’t have all the conveniences of purchasing PoF as the mount would only have 33% speed, not super speed, and wouldn’t have any of the other abilities. In addition, other than getting and riding around once in a zone, losing it on combat would be annoyance and make not worth using once you’ve tried it. It would be on ignore for those who are going more than a few feet and stopping to kill things, do Hearts, etc.

Right, my idea is to offer a taste for free, not the convenience. Your idea is complementary: it offers some of the convenience, at a cost. It's entirely possible for ANet to do both.

I don't have a strong feeling about either idea, really. I'm not sure that it's important that F2P get mounts, seeing as they've played successfully for 2 years without gliders. On the other hand, I can see how a lack of mounts might discourage some people from staying long enough to consider converting to a paid account.

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The thing you must remember is that a single $30 expansion upgrades your account features alone by more than $80 worth of gem upgrades, never mind the expanded content you can access along with access to either gliders or mounts.

A limited version of the core game exists to bring in new paying customers, full stop. Are you disadvantaged even in core by not having a mount? Yes, of course you are, you're also disadvantaged by limited character slots, limited bag slots, inability to post in map chat, and inability to access the guild bank. Further, you lack access to many of the more profitable areas. So, even if you were a grind monkey for farming and using the market for raising gold to convert to gems, you would still need to farm 1600 gold just to catch up with the utility of the bag and character slots available to someone who just buys the basic Path of Fire. Again, never mind the expanded content AND mounts they gain.

If you refuse to (or can't for whatever reason afford to) buy at least one expansion to support the game, you're not part of their equation for good reason.

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@Chip H.3951 said:The thing you must remember is that a single $30 expansion upgrades your account features alone by more than $80 worth of gem upgrades, never mind the expanded content you can access along with access to either gliders or mounts.

A limited version of the core game exists to bring in new paying customers, full stop. Are you disadvantaged even in core by not having a mount? Yes, of course you are, you're also disadvantaged by limited character slots, limited bag slots, inability to post in map chat, and inability to access the guild bank. Further, you lack access to many of the more profitable areas. So, even if you were a grind monkey for farming and using the market for raising gold to convert to gems, you would still need to farm 1600 gold just to catch up with the utility of the bag and character slots available to someone who just buys the basic Path of Fire. Again, never mind the expanded content AND mounts they gain.

If you refuse to (or can't for whatever reason afford to) buy at least one expansion to support the game, you're not part of their equation for good reason.

I heard you can't convert gold to gems if you're a completely free account.

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@Irreverent.3594 said:

@Ayumi Spender.1082 said:I heard you can't convert gold to gems if you're a completely free account.Free to play can only gems > gold.

That's what I thought. So they couldn't even turn gold into gems to try and get those extras of someone who bought GW2 before it went free to play.They would still have to buy gems... or the expansion... or gems to buy the expansion.

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With the horrible exchange rates, I'm surprised anyone does it either way.

But on topic--I remember when I started out as a free player. I saw people gliding, and thought, "Whoa, how do I do that? What, only with the expansion? Awwww..." That more than anything was what convinced me to buy HoT when I finished the core content. (Well, that and the fact that they lowered the price from 50 bucks to 30.)

I bought PoF right away. I have mounts, but I still go on foot sometimes when I'm not in a hurry or the distance is short. I have to admit, when someone blasts past me on a raptor, there's a slight moment of annoyance and the urge to mount up myself to prove I have one, too.

But seeing a raptor leap from a distance is a beautiful thing. (Fabulous job they did with that!) And I feel that the visuals of seeing the mounts running around adds a HUGE amount to the visual appeal of the game--just as funky gliders did. Even when I couldn't have one.

I would love to suggest a new mechanic added to mounts, if it were at all possible....the ability to give a ride to a passenger!

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@Ayumi Spender.1082 said:

@Chip H.3951 said:If you refuse to (or can't for whatever reason afford to) buy at least one expansion to support the game, you're not part of their equation for good reason.

I heard you can't convert gold to gems if you're a completely free account.

Heh, didn't know that. Had the digital deluxe preordered April 2012 after playing GW1 since 2007, what I know about the FTP limitations are what I've picked up here and on the wiki. So it's even more insane that you would worry about mounts of all things when you don't even have the option of actually doing anything of note for free. Can't even imagine trying to play with just 3 bag slots and 2 character slots.

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WoW is pay to win because you have to pay a monthly fee and pay for the game in order to get past level 20.

Seriously. . .how do people even come up with topics like this? FtP, as was mentioned before -many- times is a demo or a trial version of the game. Anet decided to, out of the goodness of their hearts, release one of the best MMO trial schemes to date in order to let people not only experience the game, but also a portion of the end-game (which is the real game) to let people better decide if they want to pay for the full experience. Its not meant to allow you to be fully competitive with the buyers, that is what the full game is for.

They gave you ALL the pre-HoT content with little to no restrictions. For free! And none the less, OP decides to complain. They didn't limit the max level, the gear you can get, or the activities you can partake in. What others paid for in full at release was given for free (with some extremely minor level-based restrictions for certain activities). Why would anyone complain about that kind of business model? Rarely does an MMO developer for a paid MMO do that.

If you want access to the xpac material, pay for it. Don't beg for a handout. If you can't pay for it, get a job or wait for your birthday/Christmas/gift giving day. If you feel jealous every time someone bounds around on their pet, that is your problem. Own your problem, don't try to pawn it off and say its a flaw in the game. If you had the full version of the game, then you wouldn't have a reason to be jealous of people who did buy the full version. If you want it, buy it and support anet and their team. Its well worth it, I've only just scratched the surface and its pretty amazing. And since you are FtP, you can get HoT and PoF packaged together for a fairly cheap price.

Also, these forums are for serious discussion and feedback. Its pretty inconsiderate to dilute it with these kinds of topics. Use your head, its not that hard to figure this kind of stuff out. Most other posters seem to have been able to.

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@Zedek.8932 said:

Excelsior.They are pay2play actually, a different thing. Also, since you get the core game with HoT, basically a great bundle deal, which is available since 2 years, I think they are paid off already with a lot of gametime and should consider either leaving or spending a few bucks on it. If they bought the actual core game, they have access to the game for over 2.5years now, up to 5 years (!). Do you think players being here for 2.5 - 5 years stay in the freebie zone that long if they find the time and money worthwile spend?

Well, as per what I know, you pay once for the game and then you play it as long as you want or you can. For a Highlander's relative, this can be translated by "eternity". =) I intended to play the game for at least 50 years. How did you come to the conclusion that for me a 2,5 years of play covers the value of a game advertised to be played without limit of time? Why do you think that if for you translating the time of play in money is OK, this should be OK for all?I even don't remember how much I payed for the game when I bought it. But I remember I payed the price ANet asked for a game you can play forever. And I remember also that no mounts were in Tyria. What I have now? Mounts. In a product they sold me to play forever and having no mounts.

@Just a flesh wound.3589 said:That’s a thought. However my suggestion also doesn’t have all the conveniences of purchasing PoF as the mount would only have 33% speed, not super speed, and wouldn’t have any of the other abilities. In addition, other than getting and riding around once in a zone, losing it on combat would be annoyance and make not worth using once you’ve tried it. It would be on ignore for those who are going more than a few feet and stopping to kill things, do Hearts, etc.

Well, - in my opinion at least - this is not solving the problem. Giving a mount to all players is not changing the fact that (again - my opinion) they affects gameplay in core Tyria. This is the bad thing - the impact of the mounts in a zone designed without mounts in mind. A solution may be the use of the mounts only in PoF.

@"Aryan Arlande.6184" said:There's no need to give core-players some whatever - mount.There's really no need for everybody to run around in "God-Mode"God-mode is boring, you'll learn soon enough.

Indeed :-)) The mounts should be only for the players who bought them - for the God-Mode. But not for the advantage - because is boring =) Should we show some compassion for your suffering?

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The issue here is you're thinking in terms of how a subscription based game (Consistent guaranteed income) and how a free game works.

Anet is here to make money. They're not here to cater to the players that don't make them any. Their goal is to make you buy things that either expand your gaming experience, or just improve the quality of life.

Think of it this way, if you ran your own business and a person complained that a paying customer got something, and that person was just walking by the store, would you give them the free product or tell them if they want it they have to buy it?

On the other hand, if free accounts get mounts and gliders am I going to get a refund for those in real money because why did I pay for an expansion based around gliders and mounts if someone is getting them for free all of a sudden?

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I disagree that not having access to mounts in core Tyria (if you are on a f2p account) is a punishment or that players with mounts who have the latest expac shouldn't be allowed to use mounts in core Tyria because it puts others at a disadvantage.

Core Tyria had neither gliding nor mounts for years. It isn't a punishment - it was how the game was designed and these are things that were not available at the time. As a long time player, one of the ideas which brought me excitement was to return to Core Tyria with the new mounts (as I did with gliding) to see how it was different. I could replay old material with a new flare. That isn't intended to make a f2p person feel bad - it is nostalgic fun for the players who still have Core Tyria burned into their memory when it was all we had.

I also hope that f2p people who see the gliders and mounts that are available at their disposal if they too decide to purchase an expansion feel encouraged to do so! This isn't some micro transaction that is allowing some to get ahead of others... it is a full expansion with new maps, stories, collections, etc of which the mounts and gliders are just a taste of what they can see while in the f2p maps.

I am really glad ANET has not locked the gliders to HOT or the mounts to POF. I hope they continue with this structure.

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@Cristalyan.5728 said:

@Zedek.8932 said:

Excelsior.They are pay2play actually, a different thing. Also, since you get the core game with HoT, basically a great bundle deal, which is available since 2 years, I think they are paid off already with a lot of gametime and should consider either leaving or spending a few bucks on it. If they bought the actual core game, they have access to the game for over 2.5years now, up to 5 years (!). Do you think players being here for 2.5 - 5 years stay in the freebie zone that long if they find the time and money worthwile spend?

Well, as per what I know, you pay once for the game and then you play it as long as you want or you can. For a Highlander's relative, this can be translated by "eternity". =) I intended to play the game for at least 50 years. How did you come to the conclusion that
for me
a 2,5 years of play covers the value of a game advertised to be played without limit of time? Why do you think that if
for you
translating the time of play in money is OK, this should be OK for all?I even don't remember how much I payed for the game when I bought it. But I remember I payed the price ANet asked for a game you can play forever. And I remember also that no mounts were in Tyria. What I have now? Mounts. In a product they sold me to play forever and having
no mounts
.

Seriously, whine more. I also paid the full price for the game and and i'm in no way entitled to any of the content of the expansions the things that expand on the core game. That's why i didn't whine on the forums that i won't be able to get mounts, but instead bought the expansions to get mounts and gliding.

Go to bethesda's forum and whine why they didn't give you the Dragonborn expansion for free because they advertised that you can play Skyrim forever and now all of a sudden there's more content in skyrim that other people play but you don't... The only difference is that you can't see the people playing the content you don't own so you can't be jealous like you are now.

Seriously what kind of a dumb argument is that? You CAN play the game forever, but only the core game you paid for. Not the expansions.The fact that the core content is now free is another thing, but even compared to free players you have more benefits than they have.You're entitled to nothing, anet ows you nothing because you bought the original game so suck it up and buy the expansions if you want that expansions content.

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@Omar Aschi Popp.7496 said:

@ThePlayMaker.1058 said:Core player experience? You mean F2P players, aka free demo players? Listen, a business can't survive on just love and happiness from its playerbase, it needs money to survive. In a game where you pay no subscription fee, the least you can do is pull out $30 for an expac every 2 years. It's absolutely nothing. People spend more than that on parties, dinners, etc each month/week! $30 across two years = $0.04 a day. The only way Anet survives as a company is with expac sales and gem purchases from its large playerbase.

What about people who litetally only bought the core game. They are not f2p.

Yes, people keep forgetting core-only before ftp. Especially us multiple-account types. I bought ultimate for both expansions (as well as the highest-cost download only of core for both of my accounts) but I am not about to buy the expansions twice. My other account is not a freeloader, anet made more money that they do now for that core-only account.

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Mounts adds some freshness in core Tyria for vet players who've already returned every stone, but believe me it is so much more valuable to discover your own way to the hidden places. The landscapes, the atmosphere, sometimes I just took a break at the top of a mountain after a hard climb for no reason at all.

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Wait there are mounts in pvp?if not then ftp players can't really be at a disadvantage because there isn't supposed to be competition in pve. You lose nothing by not having mounts when others do. You just might get through content slower which is a good thing as long as it doesn't force you to feel like grinding.

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