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Eater of Souls fight is too difficult.


Bloodtau.4672

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@flog.3485 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Vyrulisse.1246 said:Well it's been nerfed. A real shame I think as such things only promote people not learning to play or learning mechanics. It's okay for story content to be challenging. Just because it's story mode doesn't mean you should faceroll everything on the first try. Some of the responses in this thread are truly disheartening to see.

2 simple questions:what is the purpose of a STORY?how do you measure the success/failure of said story?drowning the story in annoying mechanics/mobs actually makes the story less effective, as it diverts attention from said storyif i want story , i go to the media that were made for them..books , movies etcfurthermore , the story is so far out, that the cheesiest star trek episode would blush

Easy answer: if the boss fight is too easy then the story being the player character fighting his way back to become alive becomes irrelevant.

You said it yourself, if you want story you are going out of your way to watch a movie or whatever. Here we are not watching a movie, we are playing a game with active combat and specific mechanics that are soooo easy to execute because every professions share the same core mechanics and utilities that are necessary to kill the death eater.

Furthermore, I am wondering. If it is not in open world (HoT complains), nor in fractal (fractal observatory complains), nor in raids to some extent (easy mode requests), nor in personal story, at what point should a solo player get accustomed to simple mechanics to make fights more interesting than easy core gameplay ?

you mentioned different ways to experience a story..not the purpose of itfurthermore, easy is subjective..we are different persons with different skills and motivationsAFAIK PoF only sold 200k copies, that shows the effects of this mentalityi can do most of the open world stuff , but these stories are huge difficulty spikes and disrupting a smooth experiencekeep the hardcore stuff where it belongsim playing in tyria on my 6th year, and i havent completed a story chapter since zhaitanevery effing story they go full horde modejust tried one of the older stories..my warrior and a npc against 30+ flame legions on a tiny mapthey just rush me and kill metry to dodge...out of instanceGG anet
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@Rhanoa.3960 said:

It's nothing more than a situational fight and you had to adjust your playstyle and this is far from being unfair. What is unfair are folks who think they have tried when they actually didn't. The fight was easy at first and a joke now. ANET didn't have to accomidate others when others should make their own accommodation.

The game does not penelize or punish you for adjusting your build as needed.Believe me I tried defending this, but the main argument of these people is that they shouldn't ever have to change a build, and basically, the game should have options for all kinds of play, down to the very "Telltale" level of content (which is close to that now).Necro strats were given (don't use minions, duh?), as well as strats for all other classes. But no matter the help, it's always too hard."Not everyone like raid difficulty". Yes, certainly. But to the point of not knowing what they're talking about and comparing everything to raids as soon as there's one layer of difficulty...

Games today aren't about playing anymore, they're barely interactive movies, no more joy for beating a game since they have to always be easier to finish them as fast as possible and move on to the next thing. Make sure to give them achievements at every step of their journey, remind them that they're awesome, that their character defeated the most powerful foes of this fantasy world, all that praise given away with no effort.

And all at the same time, the attraction for repeatable, farmed content is growing. Gate items behind golds, behind farms, rather than challenge. Make it actually be like a job where all you always do is repeating the same tasks, since it's easy anyway and keep people online.

This isn't a critic towards Anet. I know they've been trying to propose more content that requires half a brain for the story and that would actually teach the mass to play better, effectively leading to more interesting meta and content down the road. However the submission to this diktat of the "always easier" and the doubtful confession about it "being too hard in the first place" makes me a bit worried for the future of the game.

Why are "we" (by we I mean, players new and vets who actually like using the mechanics for what they've been made for) fighting so much about this specific instance?Because PoF was released with absolutely no other challenging content. While yes it's relaxing and enjoyable for most (me included), there's already a TON of that in vanilla, HoT and PoF games. There was still SOME hope in the story, some interesting concepts to fight, just like Caudecus in LS3.And all of that is wiped away, there is no longer a way to play that fight as originally intended, I will never experience Caudecus as it was intended. My character keeps being praised for fights that are ridiculously easy, that most NPC could go through without even dying.Not only was there no balance between casual content and veteran content in this extension, but because some people are refusing to try to learn their classes and change their build, we're left with literally nothing worthy of challenge now.

Until next raids, hopefully, that people will complain about because there will be no middle ground left in PoF for them to train and get better.

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@Deihnyx.6318 said:@Rhanoa.3960 said:

It's nothing more than a situational fight and you had to adjust your playstyle and this is far from being unfair. What is unfair are folks who think they have tried when they actually didn't. The fight was easy at first and a joke now. ANET didn't have to accomidate others when others should make their own accommodation.

The game does not penelize or punish you for adjusting your build as needed.Believe me I tried defending this, but the main argument of these people is that they shouldn't ever have to change a build, and basically, the game should have options for all kinds of play, down to the very "Telltale" level of content (which is close to that now).Necro strats were given (don't use minions, duh?), as well as strats for all other classes. But no matter the help, it's always too hard."Not everyone like raid difficulty". Yes, certainly. But to the point of not knowing what they're talking about and comparing everything to raids as soon as there's one layer of difficulty...

Games today aren't about playing anymore, they're barely interactive movies, no more joy for beating a game since they have to always be easier to finish them as fast as possible and move on to the next thing. Make sure to give them achievements at every step of their journey, remind them that they're awesome, that their character defeated the most powerful foes of this fantasy world, all of that praise given away with no effort. Here's a beautiful example of our consumerist society.

And all at the same time, the attractive for repeatable, farmed content is growing. Gate items behind golds, behind farms, rather than challenge. Make it actually be like a job where all you always do is repeating the same tasks, since it's easy anyway and keep people online.

This isn't a critic towards Anet. I know they've been trying to propose more content that requires half a brain for the story and that would actually teach the mass to play better, effectively leading to more interesting meta and content down the road. However the submission to this diktat of the "always easier" and the doubtful confession about it "being too hard in the first place" makes me a bit worried for the future of the game.

Why are "we" (by we I mean, players new and vets who actually like using the mechanics for what they've been made for) fighting so much about this specific instance?Because PoF was released with absolutely no other challenging content. While yes it's relaxing and enjoyable for most (me included), there's already a TON of that in vanilla, HoT and PoF games. There was still SOME hope in the story, some interesting concepts to fight, just like Caudecus in LS3.And all of that is wiped away, there is no longer a way to play that fight as originally intended, I will never experience Caudecus as it was intended. My character keeps being praised for fights that are ridiculously easy, that most NPC could go through without even dying.Not only was there no balance between casual content and veteran content in this extension, but because some people are refusing to try to learn their classes and change their build, we're left with literally nothing worthy of challenge now.

Until next raids, hopefully, that people will complain about because there will be no middle ground left in PoF for them to train and get better.

most mmos have made the mistake of such difficulty spikes in their levelling content, sometimes with dire consequences1: this is a mmo, more players is better for us all..so you want as many players to use the EXISTING content, as possible2:in normal mmos i could just outlevel the content and return..they turned that off3:i can solo a 10 point champ challenge, but i cant be allowed to progress the story? makes total sense....notthis is way out of proportions , and now they have the numbers to show for it

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:@Rhanoa.3960 said:

It's nothing more than a situational fight and you had to adjust your playstyle and this is far from being unfair. What is unfair are folks who think they have tried when they actually didn't. The fight was easy at first and a joke now. ANET didn't have to accomidate others when others should make their own accommodation.

The game does not penelize or punish you for adjusting your build as needed.Believe me I tried defending this, but the main argument of these people is that they shouldn't ever have to change a build, and basically, the game should have options for all kinds of play, down to the very "Telltale" level of content (which is close to that now).Necro strats were given (don't use minions, duh?), as well as strats for all other classes. But no matter the help, it's always too hard."Not everyone like raid difficulty". Yes, certainly. But to the point of not knowing what they're talking about and comparing everything to raids as soon as there's one layer of difficulty...

Games today aren't about playing anymore, they're barely interactive movies, no more joy for beating a game since they have to always be easier to finish them as fast as possible and move on to the next thing. Make sure to give them achievements at every step of their journey, remind them that they're awesome, that their character defeated the most powerful foes of this fantasy world, all of that praise given away with no effort. Here's a beautiful example of our consumerist society.

And all at the same time, the attractive for repeatable, farmed content is growing. Gate items behind golds, behind farms, rather than challenge. Make it actually be like a job where all you always do is repeating the same tasks, since it's easy anyway and keep people online.

This isn't a critic towards Anet. I know they've been trying to propose more content that requires half a brain for the story and that would actually teach the mass to play better, effectively leading to more interesting meta and content down the road. However the submission to this diktat of the "always easier" and the doubtful confession about it "being too hard in the first place" makes me a bit worried for the future of the game.

Why are "we" (by we I mean, players new and vets who actually like using the mechanics for what they've been made for) fighting so much about this specific instance?Because PoF was released with absolutely no other challenging content. While yes it's relaxing and enjoyable for most (me included), there's already a TON of that in vanilla, HoT and PoF games. There was still SOME hope in the story, some interesting concepts to fight, just like Caudecus in LS3.And all of that is wiped away, there is no longer a way to play that fight as originally intended, I will never experience Caudecus as it was intended. My character keeps being praised for fights that are ridiculously easy, that most NPC could go through without even dying.Not only was there no balance between casual content and veteran content in this extension, but because some people are refusing to try to learn their classes and change their build, we're left with literally nothing worthy of challenge now.

Until next raids, hopefully, that people will complain about because there will be no middle ground left in PoF for them to train and get better.

most mmos have made the mistake of such difficulty spikes in their levelling content, sometimes with dire consequences1: this is a mmo, more players is better for us all..so you want as many players to use the EXISTING content, as possible2:in normal mmos i could just outlevel the content and return..they turned that off3:i can solo a 10 point champ challenge, but i cant be allowed to progress the story? makes total sense....notthis is way out of proportions , and now they have the numbers to show for it

GW1 was also an MMO (Okay, CORPG whatever) and wasn't filled with constant requests for nerfing everything (while having some hardcore story instances). This game being an mmo doesn't mean it has to be filled with quests that requires a single key to finish, especially not in its second extension. Not everyone could beat Shiro, oh well, then what? Let's dumb it down and punish everyone who beat it and enjoyed it this way?

You can solo -some- hero points. Most in PoF that's true, but not in HoT. This is just another example that shows the obvious imbalance between easy content and challenge content.

If people want to get something nerfed as soon as they don't get it first try, I have no problem telling them to try harder. Most games outside of AAA modern crap (so Indie excluded) don't let you beat a game to the very end without at least a retry or two. That's perfectly normal.No side has more legitimacy than the other. But the imbalance in the case of PoF is obvious. There's a ton of casual content, but there's nothing worth of Challenge in PoF, no sign of raids (although I'm sure they're coming) dungeons were abandoned, no CM for story...Well yeah. pretty normal people complain here.

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@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:@Rhanoa.3960 said:

It's nothing more than a situational fight and you had to adjust your playstyle and this is far from being unfair. What is unfair are folks who think they have tried when they actually didn't. The fight was easy at first and a joke now. ANET didn't have to accomidate others when others should make their own accommodation.

The game does not penelize or punish you for adjusting your build as needed.Believe me I tried defending this, but the main argument of these people is that they shouldn't ever have to change a build, and basically, the game should have options for all kinds of play, down to the very "Telltale" level of content (which is close to that now).Necro strats were given (don't use minions, duh?), as well as strats for all other classes. But no matter the help, it's always too hard."Not everyone like raid difficulty". Yes, certainly. But to the point of not knowing what they're talking about and comparing everything to raids as soon as there's one layer of difficulty...

Games today aren't about playing anymore, they're barely interactive movies, no more joy for beating a game since they have to always be easier to finish them as fast as possible and move on to the next thing. Make sure to give them achievements at every step of their journey, remind them that they're awesome, that their character defeated the most powerful foes of this fantasy world, all of that praise given away with no effort. Here's a beautiful example of our consumerist society.

And all at the same time, the attractive for repeatable, farmed content is growing. Gate items behind golds, behind farms, rather than challenge. Make it actually be like a job where all you always do is repeating the same tasks, since it's easy anyway and keep people online.

This isn't a critic towards Anet. I know they've been trying to propose more content that requires half a brain for the story and that would actually teach the mass to play better, effectively leading to more interesting meta and content down the road. However the submission to this diktat of the "always easier" and the doubtful confession about it "being too hard in the first place" makes me a bit worried for the future of the game.

Why are "we" (by we I mean, players new and vets who actually like using the mechanics for what they've been made for) fighting so much about this specific instance?Because PoF was released with absolutely no other challenging content. While yes it's relaxing and enjoyable for most (me included), there's already a TON of that in vanilla, HoT and PoF games. There was still SOME hope in the story, some interesting concepts to fight, just like Caudecus in LS3.And all of that is wiped away, there is no longer a way to play that fight as originally intended, I will never experience Caudecus as it was intended. My character keeps being praised for fights that are ridiculously easy, that most NPC could go through without even dying.Not only was there no balance between casual content and veteran content in this extension, but because some people are refusing to try to learn their classes and change their build, we're left with literally nothing worthy of challenge now.

Until next raids, hopefully, that people will complain about because there will be no middle ground left in PoF for them to train and get better.

most mmos have made the mistake of such difficulty spikes in their levelling content, sometimes with dire consequences1: this is a mmo, more players is better for us all..so you want as many players to use the EXISTING content, as possible2:in normal mmos i could just outlevel the content and return..they turned that off3:i can solo a 10 point champ challenge, but i cant be allowed to progress the story? makes total sense....notthis is way out of proportions , and now they have the numbers to show for it

GW1 was also an MMO (Okay, CORPG whatever) and wasn't filled with constant requests for nerfing everything (while having some hardcore story instances). This game being an mmo doesn't mean it has to be filled with quests that requires a single key to finish, especially not in its second extension. Not everyone could beat Shiro, oh well, then what? Let's kitten it down and punish everyone who beat it and enjoyed it this way?

You can solo -some- hero points. Most in PoF that's true, but not in HoT. This is just another example that shows the obvious imbalance between easy content and challenge content.

If people want to get something nerfed as soon as they don't get it first try, I have no problem telling them to try harder. Most games outside of AAA modern crap (so Indie excluded) don't let you beat a game to the very end without at least a retry or two. That's perfectly normal.No side has more legitimacy than the other. But the imbalance in the case of PoF is obvious. There's a ton of casual content, but there's nothing worth of Challenge in PoF, no sign of raids (although I'm sure they're coming) dungeons were abandoned, no CM for story...Well yeah. pretty normal people complain here.

GW1 was a totally different game, and if it was that much better, WHY DIDNT YOU STAY THERE???GW2 was clearly made for a diffrent audience, and a much bigger scaledo the math: 300.000 copies x 25 $ = 7,5 mio $i have been in a game with that kind of numbers before..and it was owned by the same company , as this one isguess what happened to that game?they closed it down to make this

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@Vyrulisse.1246 said:Well it's been nerfed. A real shame I think as such things only promote people not learning to play or learning mechanics. It's okay for story content to be challenging. Just because it's story mode doesn't mean you should faceroll everything on the first try. Some of the responses in this thread are truly disheartening to see.

2 simple questions:what is the purpose of a STORY?how do you measure the success/failure of said story?drowning the story in annoying mechanics/mobs actually makes the story less effective, as it diverts attention from said storyif i want story , i go to the media that were made for them..books , movies etcfurthermore , the story is so far out, that the cheesiest star trek episode would blush

It is not a story, it is a story mission in a GAME. You are required by the game to show competence at playing and understanding the mechanics to progress, if you want a story without this you can go to the cinema or read a book.

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@Coulter.2315 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Vyrulisse.1246 said:Well it's been nerfed. A real shame I think as such things only promote people not learning to play or learning mechanics. It's okay for story content to be challenging. Just because it's story mode doesn't mean you should faceroll everything on the first try. Some of the responses in this thread are truly disheartening to see.

2 simple questions:what is the purpose of a STORY?how do you measure the success/failure of said story?drowning the story in annoying mechanics/mobs actually makes the story less effective, as it diverts attention from said storyif i want story , i go to the media that were made for them..books , movies etcfurthermore , the story is so far out, that the cheesiest star trek episode would blush

It is not a story, it is a story mission in a GAME. You are required by the game to show competence at playing and understanding the mechanics to progress, if you want a story without this you can go to the cinema or read a b> @Coulter.2315 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Vyrulisse.1246 said:Well it's been nerfed. A real shame I think as such things only promote people not learning to play or learning mechanics. It's okay for story content to be challenging. Just because it's story mode doesn't mean you should faceroll everything on the first try. Some of the responses in this thread are truly disheartening to see.

2 simple questions:what is the purpose of a STORY?how do you measure the success/failure of said story?drowning the story in annoying mechanics/mobs actually makes the story less effective, as it diverts attention from said storyif i want story , i go to the media that were made for them..books , movies etcfurthermore , the story is so far out, that the cheesiest star trek episode would blush

It is not a story, it is a story mission in a GAME. You are required by the game to show competence at playing and understanding the mechanics to progress, if you want a story without this you can go to the cinema or read a book.

come on, the difference between the normal content and story content is mind blowingi can go from almost faceroll to ragequit in a minute, that is very poor pacingi get, that you hardcores want as much content as possiblebut, putting it in the levelling content will hurt us all in the endme...i cant progressthe devs..they will get firedyou...you will literally have beat the game to deathi guess we all can be happy with that solution, yes?

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I'm glad they relaxed the CC window. It makes the CC mechanic more reliable for a broad spectrum of the player base. Having it too hard just meant people use no CC workarounds to complete the boss, and I feel that detracts from the game's mechanics. I think everyone should have a hard or soft CC skill equipped, but not all CC skills are instant cast so the defiance bar changes makes a broader set of CC viable in this fight.

As for making the defiance bar mechanic unnecessary by decreasing the life steal? I'm not sure if people here were even asking for that, but that is what Anet did :confused: Anet nerfed it in the full sense, but maybe they have more data on players and where scared enough to nerf it outright instead of slowly try to adjust it.

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:@Rhanoa.3960 said:

It's nothing more than a situational fight and you had to adjust your playstyle and this is far from being unfair. What is unfair are folks who think they have tried when they actually didn't. The fight was easy at first and a joke now. ANET didn't have to accomidate others when others should make their own accommodation.

The game does not penelize or punish you for adjusting your build as needed.Believe me I tried defending this, but the main argument of these people is that they shouldn't ever have to change a build, and basically, the game should have options for all kinds of play, down to the very "Telltale" level of content (which is close to that now).Necro strats were given (don't use minions, duh?), as well as strats for all other classes. But no matter the help, it's always too hard."Not everyone like raid difficulty". Yes, certainly. But to the point of not knowing what they're talking about and comparing everything to raids as soon as there's one layer of difficulty...

Games today aren't about playing anymore, they're barely interactive movies, no more joy for beating a game since they have to always be easier to finish them as fast as possible and move on to the next thing. Make sure to give them achievements at every step of their journey, remind them that they're awesome, that their character defeated the most powerful foes of this fantasy world, all of that praise given away with no effort. Here's a beautiful example of our consumerist society.

And all at the same time, the attractive for repeatable, farmed content is growing. Gate items behind golds, behind farms, rather than challenge. Make it actually be like a job where all you always do is repeating the same tasks, since it's easy anyway and keep people online.

This isn't a critic towards Anet. I know they've been trying to propose more content that requires half a brain for the story and that would actually teach the mass to play better, effectively leading to more interesting meta and content down the road. However the submission to this diktat of the "always easier" and the doubtful confession about it "being too hard in the first place" makes me a bit worried for the future of the game.

Why are "we" (by we I mean, players new and vets who actually like using the mechanics for what they've been made for) fighting so much about this specific instance?Because PoF was released with absolutely no other challenging content. While yes it's relaxing and enjoyable for most (me included), there's already a TON of that in vanilla, HoT and PoF games. There was still SOME hope in the story, some interesting concepts to fight, just like Caudecus in LS3.And all of that is wiped away, there is no longer a way to play that fight as originally intended, I will never experience Caudecus as it was intended. My character keeps being praised for fights that are ridiculously easy, that most NPC could go through without even dying.Not only was there no balance between casual content and veteran content in this extension, but because some people are refusing to try to learn their classes and change their build, we're left with literally nothing worthy of challenge now.

Until next raids, hopefully, that people will complain about because there will be no middle ground left in PoF for them to train and get better.

most mmos have made the mistake of such difficulty spikes in their levelling content, sometimes with dire consequences1: this is a mmo, more players is better for us all..so you want as many players to use the EXISTING content, as possible2:in normal mmos i could just outlevel the content and return..they turned that off3:i can solo a 10 point champ challenge, but i cant be allowed to progress the story? makes total sense....notthis is way out of proportions , and now they have the numbers to show for it

GW1 was also an MMO (Okay, CORPG whatever) and wasn't filled with constant requests for nerfing everything (while having some hardcore story instances). This game being an mmo doesn't mean it has to be filled with quests that requires a single key to finish, especially not in its second extension. Not everyone could beat Shiro, oh well, then what? Let's kitten it down and punish everyone who beat it and enjoyed it this way?

You can solo -some- hero points. Most in PoF that's true, but not in HoT. This is just another example that shows the obvious imbalance between easy content and challenge content.

If people want to get something nerfed as soon as they don't get it first try, I have no problem telling them to try harder. Most games outside of AAA modern crap (so Indie excluded) don't let you beat a game to the very end without at least a retry or two. That's perfectly normal.No side has more legitimacy than the other. But the imbalance in the case of PoF is obvious. There's a ton of casual content, but there's nothing worth of Challenge in PoF, no sign of raids (although I'm sure they're coming) dungeons were abandoned, no CM for story...Well yeah. pretty normal people complain here.

GW1 was a totally different game, and if it was that much better, WHY DIDNT YOU STAY THERE???GW2 was clearly made for a diffrent audience, and a much bigger scaledo the math: 300.000 copies x 25 $ = 7,5 mio $i have been in a game with that kind of numbers before..and it was owned by the same company , as this one isguess what happened to that game?they closed it down to make this

Can we stop now with the non-argument "you have nothing to do here" whenever someone doesn't agree?

Why leaving an old game after the sequel was released and most of its players moved to the new game... Hmm... Should I state the obvious?Because I actually like GW2, enough to be a complete whale for its developers. Does it mean I'm not allowed to criticize anything?And why exactly can't it be compared to GW1? GW2 is a sequel to GW1. GW2 was sold with dungeons, supposedly implying end game challenging content, and holding the same name that SUPPOSEDLY meant vet players were welcome and their tastes would be respected (and yes GW1 was hard). Since the past year, Anet has shown a clear interest at making fights more interesting, more diversified and less dumb, and has brought back lots of GW1 lore.So okay, there's a different audience, but it's not incompatible with the former's game audience and the most loyal players are also important in keeping the game alive.

Also how having seen another game failing has anything to do with the topic? Did you come to the conclusion that because a game didn't work, it was necessarily too hard? These shortcuts don't prove a theory.

It's not like I was alone to criticize these decisions to casualize games. I'm not the creator of this thread, nor the one before that. There's a LOT of people -at least as much as people ok with nerfing here- agreeing that players should LEARN a game instead of blaming it and asking for nerf. It seems like common sense for most players, but apparently not from some people in that MMO audience you're talking about.

I'm sorry - again - but I consider that dumbing down a game for the "most amateurish" part of the population is hurting it in the long term. Having a portion of the story easy in the core game is okay, it let players actually learn the game, but the argument just doesn't hold so late within the story and players who have been supporting the game for so long and like intelligent fights have the right to get some content for them too.More tutorials? Okay ! Difficulty modes? Why not! BUT Plain nerfing a fight for the casuals who most likely will never do it again is not gonna help the game in the long term and it's a slap in the face for some players too (and their voices also count). What If I wanted to replay it? What If I want to fight Caudecus and what if I want to feel GOOD for actually beating something?

I am in a guild of casual and even though some people had issues, everyone who tried went through eventually. Unlike here, they know that a game is supposed to be a game and not a movie.

@battledrone.8315 said:come on, the difference between the normal content and story content is mind blowingi can go from almost faceroll to ragequit in a minute, that is very poor pacingi get, that you hardcores want as much content as possiblebut, putting it in the levelling content will hurt us all in the endme...i cant progressthe devs..they will get firedyou...you will literally have beat the game to deathi guess we all can be happy with that solution, yes?Not "as much as possible" but at least SOME content. There is almost NO challenging content in PoF, and you guys are defending REMOVING more.

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@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:@Rhanoa.3960 said:

It's nothing more than a situational fight and you had to adjust your playstyle and this is far from being unfair. What is unfair are folks who think they have tried when they actually didn't. The fight was easy at first and a joke now. ANET didn't have to accomidate others when others should make their own accommodation.

The game does not penelize or punish you for adjusting your build as needed.Believe me I tried defending this, but the main argument of these people is that they shouldn't ever have to change a build, and basically, the game should have options for all kinds of play, down to the very "Telltale" level of content (which is close to that now).Necro strats were given (don't use minions, duh?), as well as strats for all other classes. But no matter the help, it's always too hard."Not everyone like raid difficulty". Yes, certainly. But to the point of not knowing what they're talking about and comparing everything to raids as soon as there's one layer of difficulty...

Games today aren't about playing anymore, they're barely interactive movies, no more joy for beating a game since they have to always be easier to finish them as fast as possible and move on to the next thing. Make sure to give them achievements at every step of their journey, remind them that they're awesome, that their character defeated the most powerful foes of this fantasy world, all of that praise given away with no effort. Here's a beautiful example of our consumerist society.

And all at the same time, the attractive for repeatable, farmed content is growing. Gate items behind golds, behind farms, rather than challenge. Make it actually be like a job where all you always do is repeating the same tasks, since it's easy anyway and keep people online.

This isn't a critic towards Anet. I know they've been trying to propose more content that requires half a brain for the story and that would actually teach the mass to play better, effectively leading to more interesting meta and content down the road. However the submission to this diktat of the "always easier" and the doubtful confession about it "being too hard in the first place" makes me a bit worried for the future of the game.

Why are "we" (by we I mean, players new and vets who actually like using the mechanics for what they've been made for) fighting so much about this specific instance?Because PoF was released with absolutely no other challenging content. While yes it's relaxing and enjoyable for most (me included), there's already a TON of that in vanilla, HoT and PoF games. There was still SOME hope in the story, some interesting concepts to fight, just like Caudecus in LS3.And all of that is wiped away, there is no longer a way to play that fight as originally intended, I will never experience Caudecus as it was intended. My character keeps being praised for fights that are ridiculously easy, that most NPC could go through without even dying.Not only was there no balance between casual content and veteran content in this extension, but because some people are refusing to try to learn their classes and change their build, we're left with literally nothing worthy of challenge now.

Until next raids, hopefully, that people will complain about because there will be no middle ground left in PoF for them to train and get better.

most mmos have made the mistake of such difficulty spikes in their levelling content, sometimes with dire consequences1: this is a mmo, more players is better for us all..so you want as many players to use the EXISTING content, as possible2:in normal mmos i could just outlevel the content and return..they turned that off3:i can solo a 10 point champ challenge, but i cant be allowed to progress the story? makes total sense....notthis is way out of proportions , and now they have the numbers to show for it

GW1 was also an MMO (Okay, CORPG whatever) and wasn't filled with constant requests for nerfing everything (while having some hardcore story instances). This game being an mmo doesn't mean it has to be filled with quests that requires a single key to finish, especially not in its second extension. Not everyone could beat Shiro, oh well, then what? Let's kitten it down and punish everyone who beat it and enjoyed it this way?

You can solo -some- hero points. Most in PoF that's true, but not in HoT. This is just another example that shows the obvious imbalance between easy content and challenge content.

If people want to get something nerfed as soon as they don't get it first try, I have no problem telling them to try harder. Most games outside of AAA modern crap (so Indie excluded) don't let you beat a game to the very end without at least a retry or two. That's perfectly normal.No side has more legitimacy than the other. But the imbalance in the case of PoF is obvious. There's a ton of casual content, but there's nothing worth of Challenge in PoF, no sign of raids (although I'm sure they're coming) dungeons were abandoned, no CM for story...Well yeah. pretty normal people complain here.

GW1 was a totally different game, and if it was that much better, WHY DIDNT YOU STAY THERE???GW2 was clearly made for a diffrent audience, and a much bigger scaledo the math: 300.000 copies x 25 $ = 7,5 mio $i have been in a game with that kind of numbers before..and it was owned by the same company , as this one isguess what happened to that game?they closed it down to make this

Can we stop now with the non-argument "you have nothing to do here" whenever someone doesn't agree?

Why leaving an old game after the sequel was released and most of its players moved to the new game... Hmm... Should I state the obvious?Because I actually like GW2, enough to be a complete whale for its developers. Does it mean I'm not allowed to criticize anything?And why exactly can't it be compared to GW1? GW2 is a sequel to GW1. GW2 was sold with dungeons, supposedly implying end game challenging content, and holding the same name that SUPPOSEDLY meant vet players were welcome and their tastes would be respected (and yes GW1 was hard). Since the past year, Anet has shown a clear interest at making fights more interesting, more diversified and less kitten, and has brought back lots of GW1 lore.So okay, there's a different audience, but it's not incompatible with the former's game audience and the most loyal players are also important in keeping the game alive.

Also how having seen another game failing has anything to do with the topic? Did you come to the conclusion that because a game didn't work, it was necessarily too hard? These shortcuts don't prove a theory.

It's not like I was alone to criticize these decisions to casualize games. I'm not the creator of this thread, nor the one before that. There's a LOT of people -at least as much as people ok with nerfing here- agreeing that players should LEARN a game instead of blaming it and asking for nerf. It seems like common sense for most players, but apparently not from some people in that MMO audience you're talking about.

I'm sorry - again - but I consider that dumbing down a game for the "most amateurish" part of the population is hurting it in the long term. Having a portion of the story easy in the core game is okay, it let players actually learn the game, but the argument just doesn't hold so late within the story and players who have been supporting the game for so long and like intelligent fights have the right to get some content for them too.
More tutorials? Okay ! Difficulty modes? Why not! BUT Plain nerfing a fight for the casuals who most likely will never do it again is not gonna help the game in the long term and it's a slap in the face for some players too (and their voices also count).
What If I wanted to replay it? What If I want to fight Caudecus and what if I want to feel GOOD for actually beating something?

I am in a guild of casual and even though some people had issues, everyone who tried went through eventually. Unlike here, they know that a game is supposed to be a game and not a movie.

@battledrone.8315 said:come on, the difference between the normal content and story content is mind blowingi can go from almost faceroll to ragequit in a minute, that is very poor pacingi get, that you hardcores want as much content as possiblebut, putting it in the levelling content will hurt us all in the endme...i cant progressthe devs..they will get firedyou...you will literally have beat the game to deathi guess we all can be happy with that solution, yes?Not "as much as possible" but at least SOME content. There is almost NO challenging content in PoF, and you guys are defending REMOVING more.

and im telling you that mixing the content like this is a bad ideaif they had kept it separate, you could have much harder contentand i could do my casual stuff, and we could both be happy in the same gamehell i financed a good portion of WoWs raids , without ever seeing onei didnt mind, because blizzard always gave some content for casuals toohave you seen how WoW is doing, after they stopped doing that?they already have the content, they just need to open it for more peopleit shouldnt be hard to do something with the scaling mechanism and add a difficulty settingyes..a difficulty slider, that can go UP as well

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@Coulter.2315 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Vyrulisse.1246 said:Well it's been nerfed. A real shame I think as such things only promote people not learning to play or learning mechanics. It's okay for story content to be challenging. Just because it's story mode doesn't mean you should faceroll everything on the first try. Some of the responses in this thread are truly disheartening to see.

2 simple questions:what is the purpose of a STORY?how do you measure the success/failure of said story?drowning the story in annoying mechanics/mobs actually makes the story less effective, as it diverts attention from said storyif i want story , i go to the media that were made for them..books , movies etcfurthermore , the story is so far out, that the cheesiest star trek episode would blush

It is not a story, it is a story mission in a GAME. You are required by the game to show competence at playing and understanding the mechanics to progress, if you want a story without this you can go to the cinema or read a b> @Coulter.2315 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Vyrulisse.1246 said:Well it's been nerfed. A real shame I think as such things only promote people not learning to play or learning mechanics. It's okay for story content to be challenging. Just because it's story mode doesn't mean you should faceroll everything on the first try. Some of the responses in this thread are truly disheartening to see.

2 simple questions:what is the purpose of a STORY?how do you measure the success/failure of said story?drowning the story in annoying mechanics/mobs actually makes the story less effective, as it diverts attention from said storyif i want story , i go to the media that were made for them..books , movies etcfurthermore , the story is so far out, that the cheesiest star trek episode would blush

It is not a story, it is a story mission in a GAME. You are required by the game to show competence at playing and understanding the mechanics to progress, if you want a story without this you can go to the cinema or read a book.

come on, the difference between the normal content and story content is mind blowingi can go from almost faceroll to ragequit in a minute, that is very poor pacingi get, that you hardcores want as much content as possiblebut, putting it in the levelling content will hurt us all in the endme...i cant progressthe devs..they will get firedyou...you will literally have beat the game to deathi guess we all can be happy with that solution, yes?

The devs don't get fired if you cannot progress. PoF story is not "leveling content." The Eater of Souls is a boss halfway through the second expansion balancing it for people incapable of interupting or dodging does a disservice to the community (if you haven't grasped breakbars and dodging by now you have no right to kill Balthazar).

You have failed to adapt or learn, and the game is well within its rights to reject your access to future story until you improve (this is what separates a game from a movie).

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@Coulter.2315 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Vyrulisse.1246 said:Well it's been nerfed. A real shame I think as such things only promote people not learning to play or learning mechanics. It's okay for story content to be challenging. Just because it's story mode doesn't mean you should faceroll everything on the first try. Some of the responses in this thread are truly disheartening to see.

2 simple questions:what is the purpose of a STORY?how do you measure the success/failure of said story?drowning the story in annoying mechanics/mobs actually makes the story less effective, as it diverts attention from said storyif i want story , i go to the media that were made for them..books , movies etcfurthermore , the story is so far out, that the cheesiest star trek episode would blush

It is not a story, it is a story mission in a GAME. You are required by the game to show competence at playing and understanding the mechanics to progress, if you want a story without this you can go to the cinema or read a b> @Coulter.2315 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Vyrulisse.1246 said:Well it's been nerfed. A real shame I think as such things only promote people not learning to play or learning mechanics. It's okay for story content to be challenging. Just because it's story mode doesn't mean you should faceroll everything on the first try. Some of the responses in this thread are truly disheartening to see.

2 simple questions:what is the purpose of a STORY?how do you measure the success/failure of said story?drowning the story in annoying mechanics/mobs actually makes the story less effective, as it diverts attention from said storyif i want story , i go to the media that were made for them..books , movies etcfurthermore , the story is so far out, that the cheesiest star trek episode would blush

It is not a story, it is a story mission in a GAME. You are required by the game to show competence at playing and understanding the mechanics to progress, if you want a story without this you can go to the cinema or read a book.

come on, the difference between the normal content and story content is mind blowingi can go from almost faceroll to ragequit in a minute, that is very poor pacingi get, that you hardcores want as much content as possiblebut, putting it in the levelling content will hurt us all in the endme...i cant progressthe devs..they will get firedyou...you will literally have beat the game to deathi guess we all can be happy with that solution, yes?

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:@Rhanoa.3960 said:

It's nothing more than a situational fight and you had to adjust your playstyle and this is far from being unfair. What is unfair are folks who think they have tried when they actually didn't. The fight was easy at first and a joke now. ANET didn't have to accomidate others when others should make their own accommodation.

The game does not penelize or punish you for adjusting your build as needed.Believe me I tried defending this, but the main argument of these people is that they shouldn't ever have to change a build, and basically, the game should have options for all kinds of play, down to the very "Telltale" level of content (which is close to that now).Necro strats were given (don't use minions, duh?), as well as strats for all other classes. But no matter the help, it's always too hard."Not everyone like raid difficulty". Yes, certainly. But to the point of not knowing what they're talking about and comparing everything to raids as soon as there's one layer of difficulty...

Games today aren't about playing anymore, they're barely interactive movies, no more joy for beating a game since they have to always be easier to finish them as fast as possible and move on to the next thing. Make sure to give them achievements at every step of their journey, remind them that they're awesome, that their character defeated the most powerful foes of this fantasy world, all of that praise given away with no effort. Here's a beautiful example of our consumerist society.

And all at the same time, the attractive for repeatable, farmed content is growing. Gate items behind golds, behind farms, rather than challenge. Make it actually be like a job where all you always do is repeating the same tasks, since it's easy anyway and keep people online.

This isn't a critic towards Anet. I know they've been trying to propose more content that requires half a brain for the story and that would actually teach the mass to play better, effectively leading to more interesting meta and content down the road. However the submission to this diktat of the "always easier" and the doubtful confession about it "being too hard in the first place" makes me a bit worried for the future of the game.

Why are "we" (by we I mean, players new and vets who actually like using the mechanics for what they've been made for) fighting so much about this specific instance?Because PoF was released with absolutely no other challenging content. While yes it's relaxing and enjoyable for most (me included), there's already a TON of that in vanilla, HoT and PoF games. There was still SOME hope in the story, some interesting concepts to fight, just like Caudecus in LS3.And all of that is wiped away, there is no longer a way to play that fight as originally intended, I will never experience Caudecus as it was intended. My character keeps being praised for fights that are ridiculously easy, that most NPC could go through without even dying.Not only was there no balance between casual content and veteran content in this extension, but because some people are refusing to try to learn their classes and change their build, we're left with literally nothing worthy of challenge now.

Until next raids, hopefully, that people will complain about because there will be no middle ground left in PoF for them to train and get better.

most mmos have made the mistake of such difficulty spikes in their levelling content, sometimes with dire consequences1: this is a mmo, more players is better for us all..so you want as many players to use the EXISTING content, as possible2:in normal mmos i could just outlevel the content and return..they turned that off3:i can solo a 10 point champ challenge, but i cant be allowed to progress the story? makes total sense....notthis is way out of proportions , and now they have the numbers to show for it

GW1 was also an MMO (Okay, CORPG whatever) and wasn't filled with constant requests for nerfing everything (while having some hardcore story instances). This game being an mmo doesn't mean it has to be filled with quests that requires a single key to finish, especially not in its second extension. Not everyone could beat Shiro, oh well, then what? Let's kitten it down and punish everyone who beat it and enjoyed it this way?

You can solo -some- hero points. Most in PoF that's true, but not in HoT. This is just another example that shows the obvious imbalance between easy content and challenge content.

If people want to get something nerfed as soon as they don't get it first try, I have no problem telling them to try harder. Most games outside of AAA modern crap (so Indie excluded) don't let you beat a game to the very end without at least a retry or two. That's perfectly normal.No side has more legitimacy than the other. But the imbalance in the case of PoF is obvious. There's a ton of casual content, but there's nothing worth of Challenge in PoF, no sign of raids (although I'm sure they're coming) dungeons were abandoned, no CM for story...Well yeah. pretty normal people complain here.

GW1 was a totally different game, and if it was that much better, WHY DIDNT YOU STAY THERE???GW2 was clearly made for a diffrent audience, and a much bigger scaledo the math: 300.000 copies x 25 $ = 7,5 mio $i have been in a game with that kind of numbers before..and it was owned by the same company , as this one isguess what happened to that game?they closed it down to make this

Can we stop now with the non-argument "you have nothing to do here" whenever someone doesn't agree?

Why leaving an old game after the sequel was released and most of its players moved to the new game... Hmm... Should I state the obvious?Because I actually like GW2, enough to be a complete whale for its developers. Does it mean I'm not allowed to criticize anything?And why exactly can't it be compared to GW1? GW2 is a sequel to GW1. GW2 was sold with dungeons, supposedly implying end game challenging content, and holding the same name that SUPPOSEDLY meant vet players were welcome and their tastes would be respected (and yes GW1 was hard). Since the past year, Anet has shown a clear interest at making fights more interesting, more diversified and less kitten, and has brought back lots of GW1 lore.So okay, there's a different audience, but it's not incompatible with the former's game audience and the most loyal players are also important in keeping the game alive.

Also how having seen another game failing has anything to do with the topic? Did you come to the conclusion that because a game didn't work, it was necessarily too hard? These shortcuts don't prove a theory.

It's not like I was alone to criticize these decisions to casualize games. I'm not the creator of this thread, nor the one before that. There's a LOT of people -at least as much as people ok with nerfing here- agreeing that players should LEARN a game instead of blaming it and asking for nerf. It seems like common sense for most players, but apparently not from some people in that MMO audience you're talking about.

I'm sorry - again - but I consider that dumbing down a game for the "most amateurish" part of the population is hurting it in the long term. Having a portion of the story easy in the core game is okay, it let players actually learn the game, but the argument just doesn't hold so late within the story and players who have been supporting the game for so long and like intelligent fights have the right to get some content for them too.
More tutorials? Okay ! Difficulty modes? Why not! BUT Plain nerfing a fight for the casuals who most likely will never do it again is not gonna help the game in the long term and it's a slap in the face for some players too (and their voices also count).
What If I wanted to replay it? What If I want to fight Caudecus and what if I want to feel GOOD for actually beating something?

I am in a guild of casual and even though some people had issues, everyone who tried went through eventually. Unlike here, they know that a game is supposed to be a game and not a movie.

@battledrone.8315 said:come on, the difference between the normal content and story content is mind blowingi can go from almost faceroll to ragequit in a minute, that is very poor pacingi get, that you hardcores want as much content as possiblebut, putting it in the levelling content will hurt us all in the endme...i cant progressthe devs..they will get firedyou...you will literally have beat the game to deathi guess we all can be happy with that solution, yes?Not "as much as possible" but at least SOME content. There is almost NO challenging content in PoF, and you guys are defending REMOVING more.

and im telling you that mixing the content like this is a bad ideaif they had kept it separate, you could have much harder contentand i could do my casual stuff, and we could both be happy in the same gamehell i financed a good portion of WoWs raids , without ever seeing onei didnt mind, because blizzard always gave some content for casuals toohave you seen how WoW is doing, after they stopped doing that?they already have the content, they just need to open it for more peopleit shouldnt be hard to do something with the scaling mechanism and add a difficulty settingyes..a difficulty slider, that can go UP as well

I am not against a difficulty setting. I am against pure removal of content in favor of some players that also negatively impacts others.Also, I don't think "middle ground" difficulty is asking for too much. When we do meta (typically KotJ... which WAS NERFED even though it's not story) we have to deal with this population of players who have no idea how anything work and who are only there to scale up an event. That's another reason why some form of teaching through story has to remain.

For this fight, just adding a checkpoint could have been enough for people to fail, change their build or get a gold/exotic long range weapon, and come back, there was no need for baby carry this fight.

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How very bizarre. I noticed in the patch notes that they tweaked the difficulty of this. I am not quite sure why because, a glass-Firebrand, I did not struggle with this fight at all. I will see how I get on with my more defensive yet condition-based Weaver but I doubt I shall have any issues now that they've nerfed it.

Such a shame. Most of the Path of Fire story was easy. I enjoyed the slight difficulty during this step. Oh well!

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@Deihnyx.6318 said:That's another reason why some form of teaching through story has to remain.

This boss wasn't teaching anyone. It was a very simple gimmick fight where if you had something like permanent cripple, you could casually facetank it without trying. If they actually wanted to teach people how to do the break bar or something, they would have made it last for ~5 seconds, then do a zone wide inhale that only siphoned 50% of your health and healed it to full. They only made it appear overpowered and impossible by making the break bar last 1 second, siphon deal ~5000 DPS, requiring double dodge to get out and having it sprint to you to make it appear as if you couldn't get away.

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@battledrone.8315 said:

@flog.3485 said:

@battledrone.8315 said:

@Vyrulisse.1246 said:Well it's been nerfed. A real shame I think as such things only promote people not learning to play or learning mechanics. It's okay for story content to be challenging. Just because it's story mode doesn't mean you should faceroll everything on the first try. Some of the responses in this thread are truly disheartening to see.

2 simple questions:what is the purpose of a STORY?how do you measure the success/failure of said story?drowning the story in annoying mechanics/mobs actually makes the story less effective, as it diverts attention from said storyif i want story , i go to the media that were made for them..books , movies etcfurthermore , the story is so far out, that the cheesiest star trek episode would blush

Easy answer: if the boss fight is too easy then the story being the player character fighting his way back to become alive becomes irrelevant.

You said it yourself, if you want story you are going out of your way to watch a movie or whatever. Here we are not watching a movie, we are playing a game with active combat and specific mechanics that are soooo easy to execute because every professions share the same core mechanics and utilities that are necessary to kill the death eater.

Furthermore, I am wondering. If it is not in open world (HoT complains), nor in fractal (fractal observatory complains), nor in raids to some extent (easy mode requests), nor in personal story, at what point should a solo player get accustomed to simple mechanics to make fights more interesting than easy core gameplay ?

you mentioned different ways to experience a story..not the purpose of itfurthermore, easy is subjective..we are different persons with different skills and motivationsAFAIK PoF only sold 200k copies, that shows the effects of this mentalityi can do most of the open world stuff , but these stories are huge difficulty spikes and disrupting a smooth experiencekeep the hardcore stuff where it belongsim playing in tyria on my 6th year, and i havent completed a story chapter since zhaitanevery effing story they go full horde modejust tried one of the older stories..my warrior and a npc against 30+ flame legions on a tiny mapthey just rush me and kill metry to dodge...out of instanceGG anet

To me, the purpose of a story is to experience it, to feel and really get behind the character you play. There is no way you can feel it and get behind your character if the fight is too easy. Reducing the health drain was overkill and was not needed, since they significantly made it easier to not have the death eater drain your life. I just can't agree with you battledrone.

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Fight was dumb.

Core Guardian you will lose every time basically.

Switch 1 trait line to DH (For me I changed Zeal), use a bow and just spam 12345 while running around and pressing f2 occasionally. He will die in < 3 min with zero effort or skill required because you are ranged.

Now, what is most annoying about this? NO BUILD TEMPLATES. So I had to sit there, click all these different buttons to get to DH and then change my utility bars. Then remember what I used to have, and click everything back how it was. PITA ... just really sloppy having to setup bars and stuff constantly. C'mon even WoW saves action bars and has build templates for 5+ years.

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They need to create a separate "instance", which takes the bosses out of the story..once you've beaten them and places then in..say an instanced arena of sorts.

With an increase in difficulty...or even settings "original fight" and "hard".

This would do two things. ..take away the repetitive side of the story when aiming for achievements and adds a harder fight separately for those who want it.Would also put all bosses in one place, which would be cool.

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@Malediktus.9250 said:The nerf is lame and unnecessary. A story about godlike enemies (be it balthasar or the elder dragons) can never be truly epic without difficult encounters. If they are easy you think "Why did not just any of the NPCs in the game world do this before me?"It is beyond me why Anet keeps wasting resources on story instances that make you nearly fall asleep (read: tab out of the game frequently).

That doesn't work. See the player has no agency. So the player isn't allowed to choose how they approach the fight. If you want godlike enemies then you need to give your players the ability to form an army to take on this enemy with or to become a godlike being themself. We are denied both of those options. So the only reason why this fight is hard is because we aren't allowed to play our character. We are forced to play an idiot with no power who never tries to acquire power.

Imagine this like a PnP game. Some players will just run up to the dragon and try to stick it with a sword. Some players will prepare for the fight ahead of time, studying and learning about their enemy, preparing, laying traps, hiring NPCs, filling up their spellbooks with utility spells, acquiring fire resistant armor, etc. Now imagine the DM in the game with the players who want to prepare just straight up says, "NOPE. Your characters do no preparation and run up to the dragon with their sword and try to stab it. The dragon kills you. You should have prepared."

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@Daffan.8924 said:Fight was kitten.

Core Guardian you will lose every time basically.

Switch 1 trait line to DH (For me I changed Zeal), use a bow and just spam 12345 while running around and pressing f2 occasionally. He will die in < 3 min with zero effort or skill required because you are ranged.

Now, what is most annoying about this? NO BUILD TEMPLATES. So I had to sit there, click all these different buttons to get to DH and then change my utility bars. Then remember what I used to have, and click everything back how it was. PITA ... just really sloppy having to setup bars and stuff constantly. C'mon even WoW saves action bars and has build templates for 5+ years.

WoW also used to let you be an unkillable self healing tank before they nerfed Death Knights into the dirt in Cataclysm. That took all the fun out of the game for me. Being a Titan of Destruction is fun for me, being a peon is the antithesis of fun.

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@castlemanic.3198 said:

@Rhanoa.3960 said:It's nothing more than a situational fight and you had to adjust your playstyle and this is far from being unfair. What is unfair are folks who think they have tried when they actually didn't. The fight was easy at first and a joke now. ANET didn't have to accomidate others when others should make their own accommodation.

The game does not penelize or punish you for adjusting your build as needed.

First of all, that's entirely not the case, just because you're good at something doesn't mean other people wouldn't have difficulties with it. Get out of the mindset that all players must play like you otherwise "they aren't trying". It is a toxic attitude and the entire gaming community at large needs to drop toxic attitudes such as this.

Secondly, it has become apparent (through my own personal experience etc.) that depending on the game connection and the type of computer played on, The very speed of the game can vary, meaning what's 2 seconds to one player is one second to another player in certain instances. I've been presented a video of a pre-nerf fight, where the eater of souls leap breakbar lats 1.42 seconds. The experience I had was a breakbar that flashed for less than a second, with a leap animation that seemed to have been sped up unnaturally. So there's more elements than simply 'experience' at play here. I only have anecdote to go on at the moment, especially because I no longer have access to the circumstances that I first played the instance in, but there is
something
that's not making sense about how the same instance can have wildly varying speeds depending on computer spec, ping and i'm sure other aspects. Some sort of experiment is required here, and I believe experimentation beyond simply using a vpn is necessary.

Not ready to file a bug report or anything of the like just yet, as I can't quite go back and forth across two continents to test this out, but it's something that I feel everyone should possibly be aware of, especially with regards to the eater of souls, as that has the most drama at the moment.

EDIT: grammar.

The toxic attitude/mindset would have been, if you had a Meter you would succesfully killed EOS in .08 secs. DPS is how everything is measured in game.

Adjusting your gameplay is hardly a toxic mindset, it's an option that is available to you and I. If you are not willing to take advantage of switching your build as needed then other players shouldn't be penalized for successfully completing it.

Many of have more than one toon and face rolling a pinata is hardly worth replaying. Replay value however is subjective.

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@Rhanoa.3960 said:The toxic attitude/mindset would have been, if you had a Meter you would succesfully killed EOS in .08 secs. DPS is how everything is measured in game.

Adjusting your gameplay is hardly a toxic mindset, it's an option that is available to you and I. If you are not willing to take advantage of switching your build as needed then other players shouldn't be penalized for successfully completing it.

Many of have more than one toon and face rolling a pinata is hardly worth replaying. Replay value however is subjective.

The toxic mindset that I had mentioned is thinking that simply because you had no problems with it, other people shouldn't, not that the toxic mindset is "people should change their builds". It's clearly what I said, but for whatever reason you twisted my words. Here's my exact quote:

First of all, that's entirely not the case, just because you're good at something doesn't mean other people wouldn't have difficulties with it. Get out of the mindset that all players must play like you otherwise "they aren't trying". It is a toxic attitude and the entire gaming community at large needs to drop toxic attitudes such as this.

Nothing at all about calling on people to change their build, because your post wasn't entirely about asking people to change builds.

It's nothing more than a situational fight and you had to adjust your playstyle and this is far from being unfair. What is unfair are folks who think they have tried when they actually didn't. The fight was easy at first and a joke now. ANET didn't have to accomidate others when others should make their own accommodation.

The game does not penelize or punish you for adjusting your build as needed.

The highlighted part is the toxic attitude I was talking about. Even with a changed build, people can still have problems and it absolutely is toxic to dismiss those people out of hand, citing how "face rolly" it is to you. It's entirely toxic. The devs changing how long the breakbar lasts and having the eater of souls not snack on minions and pets is absolutely 100% the right move, lowering how much health was regained was not the right move. You also 'conveniently' missed the fact that the fight performed at different speeds, meaning that even if some people adjusted their build, had meta gear etc., the game could have bugged out making it much more difficult than the devs ever intended. As I said, I only have anecdote to go on at this point, my own personal experience of the eater of souls fight being exaggeratingly difficult vs someone else's recorded experience of a much more reasonably paced fight. I can't test this out as I have moved continents and changed computers, so I can't recreate the scenario as I first played it, but there is a huge difference between what I experienced and what I played with myself, pre-nerf.

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@castlemanic.3198 said:

@Rhanoa.3960 said:The toxic attitude/mindset would have been, if you had a Meter you would succesfully killed EOS in .08 secs. DPS is how everything is measured in game.

Adjusting your gameplay is hardly a toxic mindset, it's an option that is available to you and I. If you are not willing to take advantage of switching your build as needed then other players shouldn't be penalized for successfully completing it.

Many of have more than one toon and face rolling a pinata is hardly worth replaying. Replay value however is subjective.

The toxic mindset that I had mentioned is thinking that simply because you had no problems with it, other people shouldn't, not that the toxic mindset is "people should change their builds". It's clearly what I said, but for whatever reason you twisted my words. Here's my exact quote:

First of all, that's entirely not the case, just because you're good at something doesn't mean other people wouldn't have difficulties with it. Get out of the mindset that all players must play like you otherwise "they aren't trying". It is a toxic attitude and the entire gaming community at large needs to drop toxic attitudes such as this.

Nothing at all about calling on people to change their build, because your post wasn't entirely about asking people to change builds.

It's nothing more than a situational fight and you had to
adjust
your playstyle and this is far from being unfair.
What is unfair are folks who think they have tried when they actually didn't. The fight was easy at first and a joke now.
ANET didn't have to accommodate others when others should make their own accommodation.

The game does not penelize or punish you for adjusting your build as needed.

The highlighted part is the toxic attitude I was talking about. Even with a changed build, people can still have problems and it absolutely is toxic to dismiss those people out of hand, citing how "face rolly" it is to you. It's entirely toxic. The devs changing how long the breakbar lasts and having the eater of souls not snack on minions and pets is absolutely 100% the right move, lowering how much health was regained was not the right move. You also 'conveniently' missed the fact that the fight performed at different speeds, meaning that even if some people adjusted their build, had meta gear etc.,
the game could have bugged out making it much more difficult than the devs ever intended
. As I said, I only have anecdote to go on at this point, my own personal experience of the eater of souls fight being exaggeratingly difficult vs someone else's recorded experience of a much more reasonably paced fight. I can't test this out as I have moved continents and changed computers, so I can't recreate the scenario as I first played it, but there is a huge difference between what I experienced and what I played with myself, pre-nerf.

The term I used is ADJUST: modify, adopt, fine tune your playstyle, the manner of which you play. This includes and not limited to your movement, weapons, armor, runes, & traits.

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@Rhanoa.3960 said:The term I used is ADJUST: modify, adopt, fine tune your playstyle, the manner of which you play. This includes and not limited to your movement, weapons, armor, runes, & traits.

I addressed that. In the quote you have in your post.

Here it is again:

Even with a changed build, people can still have problems and it absolutely is toxic to dismiss those people out of hand, citing how "face rolly" it is to you. It's entirely toxic.

Even if you used the term adjust, you still, in the end, said this:

What is unfair are folks who think they have tried when they actually didn't. The fight was easy at first and a joke now.

Which is absolutely toxic, because it entirely dismisses the notion that people could have difficulty even when adjusting their build.

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