Eater of Souls fight is too difficult.

[Coulter.2315]

@castlemanic.3198 said:

@Rhanoa.3960 said:Ok, I see how it is.

Your whole statement now shows that you are not willing to make any effort to take the time and learn.YOU and I are still given the same informative tools to execute in game content.We all started where you are at, we were not taught how the mechanics work, we had figured it out, and some folks have taken the time to write guides to help out folks like yourself.

Again, ignoring what is already available to you and myself.

So rather make any effort you would rather have someone else do all the homework for you.You are playing an MMO, you can't play it without internet access.

Break Bars

Please don't blame the connectivity, the lag, the game card, or PC. You and I are given the system requirements before purchasing the game.

This is not a toxic attitude as my original statement has just now been proven.

I beat the eater of souls pre nerf first try without dying, why are you giving me details on what breakbars are? And I said the game doesn't give you enough information.

But managed to give enough information for you.. If you can manage it so can others and it is extremely condescending to cry out "These peasants are unable to conquer this fight, only I, the mighty, could prevail! Nerf it, lest they cry themselves to sleep over their inadequecies."

Other GW2 players are gamers too and should be extended the respect of believing in their ability to problem solve - or at least google. Games should push you and make you better, and this "push" is a break bar ffs, every djinn in the desert has one!

[castlemanic.3198]

@Deihnyx.6318 said:I'm only gonna comment on that since I doubt we will ever agree on the rest.But that, yes. Let's make a deal, once (if) Anet ever make once that summarize all the core game mechanics (so CC, dodge, block, combo fields etc), let's NEVER talk about nerf of anything that's part of said tutorial.

As someone said earlier in this thread, an issue that I'm willing to accept is that a lot of these "fights" that teaches these mechanics are found in LS3... which is locked behind gems.

I don't think it's fair to say never nerf anything that's part of the tutorial. If you mean "never ask to remove those mechanics", sure i'll agree to that, but I think tweaking numbers should still be allowed (to an extent).

Also yeah, it's weird that the Aurene combo has NO introduction in path of fire, so people will inevitably get confused until they guess they should stand in the friendly blue circle. Also the hot key that pops up under certain circumstances too. It would definitely be strange from a players perspective who never played season 3, as well as other mechanics season 3 showcased.

EDIT: I felt like we were coming closer to an agreement on some stuff. Perhaps not total agreement, but at least a form of understanding.

[Deihnyx.6318]

@castlemanic.3198 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:I'm only gonna comment on that since I doubt we will ever agree on the rest.But that, yes. Let's make a deal, once (if) Anet ever make once that summarize all the core game mechanics (so CC, dodge, block, combo fields etc), let's NEVER talk about nerf of anything that's part of said tutorial.

As someone said earlier in this thread, an issue that I'm willing to accept is that a lot of these "fights" that teaches these mechanics are found in LS3... which is locked behind gems.

I don't think it's fair to say never nerf anything that's part of the tutorial. If you mean "never ask to remove those mechanics", sure i'll agree to that, but I think tweaking numbers should still be allowed (to an extent).

Also yeah, it's weird that the Aurene combo has NO introduction in path of fire, so people will inevitably get confused until they guess they should stand in the friendly blue circle. Also the hot key that pops up under certain circumstances too. It would definitely be strange from a players perspective who never played season 3, as well as other mechanics season 3 showcased.

EDIT: I felt like we were coming closer to an agreement on some stuff. Perhaps not total agreement, but at least a form of understanding.

I expressed that poorly, what I meant is once a proper tutorial is made, all the fights (story or not) following said tutorial will be expecting players to know what to do.

[castlemanic.3198]

@Deihnyx.6318 said:I expressed that poorly, what I meant is once a proper tutorial is made, all the fights (story or not) following said tutorial will be expecting players to know what to do.

Yeah, I can get behind that.

[Tenrai Senshi.2017]

Perhaps I am late to the party here, but this fight is actually very easy once you understand its mechanics. I think what most people would struggle with is the mechanic where the boss drains your life and replenishes itself, but it's actually very simple to stop it from doing that.

All you do, is fight it as per usual, either in melee or range, and when you see an orange aoe circle, it means it's about to leap at you and then start using a channeled life drain attack. When you see the circle, just dodge away from the boss, and keep running away from it. As long as you keep a reasonable distance, the attack will not cause any damage, nor give the boss any life. Once it has finished, it will perform another AoE attack that does high damage in the area around itself, after which you can jump back in again and resume damage.

I've done this fight with multiple characters, a Revenant, a Guardian and a Thief, and I never had to adjust builds or swap weapons or anything. I used melee most of the time and just went ranged where needed. I also did the instance with a friend playing a weaver and when I explained the mechanics to him, he completed the boss easily on the first try. Sometimes people just need to look at a situation and evaluate it properly, to find a solution. Once the solution is clear, the task becomes simple.

If the battle did one thing wrong, perhaps it would be that it didn't highlight these mechanics clearly enough for some players, but honestly, I actually like that some battles require you to figure them out to progress, rather than just feeding you with a silver spoon.

[battledrone.8315]

@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Cuddy.6247 said:A lot to respond to. Way I see it is that it wasn't awful, but it needed to be tuned down. It's a story instance. Who actually cares how easy or difficult the story is? The story should be easy enough to finish blindfolded. Add challenge motes for achievements as necessary.

The game's a lot bigger than a handful of story instances.

If nobody cared there wouldn't be 9 pages about it (and other threads).I doubt people care about this specific instance itself but more about the message it sends to the playerbase that it's always gonna be easy.

• For players who enjoy challenging content, they aren't providing a way to keep the original content (Caudecus, KotJ, now eater of souls, im sure im forgetting more)
• Keeping the playerbase generally "bad" is affecting everyone during events, you can clearly see it during bounty trains with some specific fights that requires CCing or the boss heal... or simply standing in a specific zone.
• PoF has no "hard" content and is getting nerfs to be even easier.

People care for a lot of reasons that are beyond this simple fight.

anet have the numbers, and they didnt agree with youi think they nerfed open world too, aggro range seems to be reduced

[battledrone.8315]

@castlemanic.3198 said:

@Deihnyx.6318 said:I expressed that poorly, what I meant is once a proper tutorial is made, all the fights (story or not) following said tutorial will be expecting players to know what to do.

Yeah, I can get behind that.

they already have a dodging tutorial, and that didnt seem to help muchthe best thing to do , is to make the gameplay intuitive

[Zaltys.7649]

@Deihnyx.6318 said:I expressed that poorly, what I meant is once a proper tutorial is made, all the fights (story or not) following said tutorial will be expecting players to know what to do.To know what to do? Absolutely.But knowing and actually being able to do it are two different things, as has been said.

For example, I'm not good at discerning the tells. There's so much visual clutter and flashy effects in this game that I tend to even lose track of where the enemy is. So managing to pull off ccs is pretty much blind luck. The Balthazar fight in The Departed and the final one in LS3 are examples of battles where I cannot tell at all what's going on. Red-green color blindness (which has frequency of 8% among the male population here in northern Europe) certainly doesn't help. Red aoe on greenish background? Too blurry, can't see where the effect ends.

But gimme a black and white wireframe mode, and I'd manage just fine. Had quite a few hi-scores back in the day that are still standing.

[PseudoNewb.5468]

If the game is going to have short attack windows, and have a very fast action response time for attacks, then there really shouldn't be pre-cast times on the corresponding abilities. I don't know exactly how many cc abilities have pre-cast, but it does seem it is quite pervasive. I know that things like shouts and mantras don't tend to have them, but not every class has CC shouts or mantras. Telegraph windows for enemy attacks, are quite short, but the current dodge is instant, making it feel good and responsive to pull off a dodge during a heavy attack. Having an CC attack window that closes before your pre-cast finishes just makes things feel sluggish, and to some unfair. This is just a poor design and tuning for that mechanic. Also because of how varied CCs are, It seems like it is quite difficult to tune break bars properly for all classes. Unfortunately this means that the mechanic needs quite a bit of leeway to make it work well and feel good for players. The tight window that it used to have, didn't do that. And as you can see, in this very thread, this makes a lot of people simply ignore and work around the mechanic. With a more generous approach, making the mechanic more viable, will hopefully let more people approach it and think to use CC instead of going, hell no that is too short, because I can't even cast my CC in the time that it up, not to mention having the time for the couple of ticks any soft CCs need to deplete the bar.

[mazut.4296]

How is it to difficult... o.O You need to dodge once and then walk away... seriously...

[Cuddy.6247]

@Deihnyx.6318 said:For players who enjoy challenging content, they aren't providing a way to keep the original content

How many raid bosses are there again? Get over yourself.

And no, I never saw "keeping the playerbase bad" as all that detrimental. The only places where I can say it matters, I have my own prerogative of association. PvE is easy, especially open world PvE. I led a 4-man squad against the Corrupted Facet. We won (albeit with literally 1 second to spare). Most of the time we only had 3 people.

Way I see it, if you imagine that it's hurting the bounty train by any means, you might just be bad yourself.

[Ardid.7203]

Did this boss got nerfed? I did the mission for the first time yesterday, and it wasn't hard at all, and I killed it with a very basic strategy. That's why I ask.

I died twice, but I seriously could have made it without dying at all If I had grasped the basic mechanic before. With core engie, my solution was to kite with rifle AA until the white circle for the jumping attack (wich is followed by the soul eating thing) appeared in the ground. The moment I see that, I used Overcharged Shot on the guy, interrupting him. When you interrupt this specific attack, the boss is dazed for a quite long period, and you can burst him. Then you run again and repeat with another hard CC, or just avoid the next white circle and the soul sucking effect while your CC gets off cool-down.

[castlemanic.3198]

@Ardid.7203 said:Did this boss got nerfed? I did the mission for the first time yesterday, and it wasn't hard at all, and I killed it with a very basic strategy. That's why I ask.

I died twice, but I seriously could have made it without dying at all If I had grasped the basic mechanic before. With core engie, my solution was to kite with rifle AA until the white circle for the jumping attack (wich is followed by the soul eating thing) appeared in the ground. The moment I see that, I used Overcharged Shot on the guy, interrupting him. When you interrupt this specific attack, the boss is dazed for a quite long period, and you can burst him. Then you run again and repeat with another hard CC, or just avoid the next white circle and the soul sucking effect while your CC gets off cool-down.

The boss was indeed nerfed a while back. The mechanics didn't change (apart from stealing life from pets and minions), just the numbers (like how long the breakbar lasts for the leap and how much health the boss regained).

[castlemanic.3198]

@Coulter.2315 said:But managed to give enough information for you.. If you can manage it so can others and it is extremely condescending to cry out "These peasants are unable to conquer this fight, only I, the mighty, could prevail! Nerf it, lest they cry themselves to sleep over their inadequecies."

Other GW2 players are gamers too and should be extended the respect of believing in their ability to problem solve - or at least google. Games should push you and make you better, and this "push" is a break bar kitten, every djinn in the desert has one!

I discovered the trick by accident, because when I was playing it, the eater of souls leap was half a second long, meaning I didn't have much of an opportunity to even see the breakbar. After hopelessly fighting against it for 10 minutes, banging my head against a brick wall, I happened to cast a CC at the right time and broke the breakbar. This is not the first time I've expressed that in this thread, though it's become 10 pages long.

That's not good information. It's the very reason I got into this debate over multiple threads. It does seem I ran into some sort of bug, as someone posted a video of the length of time the eater of souls breakbar was actually up, which was objectively not the amount of time I experienced.

Thus, it's not condescending, because defeating a boss by mere chance does not make me a god amongst mortals. I have also, too many times, advocated for the breakbar to be extended, that was the only nerf I was asking for. It's been the only nerf I've ever asked for because, as I've mentioned multiple times in this thread and others, the mechanics of the fight are fine. The nerf then came, and other stuff was adjusted too.

However, advocating for people who have a hard time is not some "look at me, I managed but no one else can", it's me analytically thinking about the situation, realising some people may not be able to adjust, personally having a friend who has had difficulty with this fight and realising that things can be changed for the better to suit everyone.

Don't put words in my mouth, don't even try to imply that I'm being condescending for looking out for fellow gamers. The game itself does not provide a tutorial for some of the most important aspects of the game, one that was introduced in an expansion that the devs only talked about in news media but have never truly expressed within the terms of the game. I am speaking from some of my own habits and my own psychology when saying that a tutorial is a good idea (i've even said in this thread that I could benefit from a tutorial), I also realise other people could be like me and have the same issues as me and, more importantly, may have missed something I discovered by accident (though again, I should stress that what I played against does not seem representative of the pre nerf fight).

Asking for information to be explicitly mentioned in game is not being condescending in the slightest. I am not asking for a full screen "CC NOW" whenever a breakbar appears in game, I'm asking for an optional side tutorial that explains all the mechanics, something I myself could benefit from.

It absolutely annoys me to no end when people falsely suggest I'm condescending when I've objectively done no such thing.

[Sondergaard.8469]

I'm a little late to the party, but for any of you other late comers, here's some tips.He can actually be quite easy... if you bring some CC for right after he does his leap attack. You'll see his break bar go up and just hit him with one or two CCs and his break bar is down. You never have to deal with the leech. In the event you miss a break bar, double dodge roll through his leech to avoid healing him and taking damage.Hope that helps!

[olleandersson.4352]

Am I the only one who actually enjoyed a bit of a challenge in the story for once? Reminded me of some of the fights in Guild Wars 1! More of this, please!

[pah.4931]

@olleandersson.4352 said:Am I the only one who actually enjoyed a bit of a challenge in the story for once? Reminded me of some of the fights in Guild Wars 1! More of this, please!

I think the problem was that for certain classes / builds (especially with pets triggering the heal) the fight SEEMED unbeatable, without any real clue as to why it was working the way it was. Difficult isn't /really/ the issue. It was not properly balanced. I know on my reaper, I kept dodging the attack and he'd still heal to full ... I didn't realize my horrors from Rise! were triggering it. (In no MMO ever did dumb pet AI ever work like that)

EDIT: also, the fact that it came after a long prelude without checkpoints, and you couldn't switch weapons (I know you could, but it wasn't intuitive nor common knowledge) made for very sour first experiences for people accustomed to certain playstyles. Again, especially for a game marketed pretty heavily as "play however you want."

[flog.3485]

@pah.4931 said:

@olleandersson.4352 said:Am I the only one who actually enjoyed a bit of a challenge in the story for once? Reminded me of some of the fights in Guild Wars 1! More of this, please!

I think the problem was that for certain classes / builds (especially with pets triggering the heal) the fight SEEMED unbeatable, without any real clue as to why it was working the way it was. Difficult isn't /really/ the issue. It was not properly balanced. I know on my reaper, I kept dodging the attack and he'd still heal to full ... I didn't realize my horrors from Rise! were triggering it. (In no MMO ever did kitten pet AI ever work like that)

EDIT: also, the fact that it came after a long prelude without checkpoints, and you couldn't switch weapons (I know you could, but it wasn't intuitive nor common knowledge) made for very sour first experiences for people accustomed to certain playstyles. Again, especially for a game marketed pretty heavily as "play however you want."

"Play however you want" has never been about how easy/hard the game should be.....for the gazillon time.

[pah.4931]

@flog.3485 said:

@pah.4931 said:

@olleandersson.4352 said:Am I the only one who actually enjoyed a bit of a challenge in the story for once? Reminded me of some of the fights in Guild Wars 1! More of this, please!

I think the problem was that for certain classes / builds (especially with pets triggering the heal) the fight SEEMED unbeatable, without any real clue as to why it was working the way it was. Difficult isn't /really/ the issue. It was not properly balanced. I know on my reaper, I kept dodging the attack and he'd still heal to full ... I didn't realize my horrors from Rise! were triggering it. (In no MMO ever did kitten pet AI ever work like that)

EDIT: also, the fact that it came after a long prelude without checkpoints, and you couldn't switch weapons (I know you could, but it wasn't intuitive nor common knowledge) made for very sour first experiences for people accustomed to certain playstyles. Again, especially for a game marketed pretty heavily as "play however you want."

"Play however you want" has never been about how easy/hard the game should be.....for the gazillon time.

Then read the rest of my comment. The issue here was not difficulty. The issue was that it was EASY for some builds and damn near impossible for others, without any warning before going in (long prelude), no checkpoints, no access to bank/inventory, no help from friends, and no hints as to WHY it was so difficult (e.g., minions triggering the heal). So the encounter, which was a forced solo encounter, made it so it might be VERY hard for someone to beat it with a build they've been playing since 2012. This was made even worse by the fact that it blocked story progression. Imagine if you've played, let's say, Thief since launch and a certain encounter was almost impossible for thieves to beat for reasons that aren't very clear to you, while other classes are saying how easy the fight was. I think you'd be upset.

It was bad design and it was a good decision to fix it (whether or not they overcompensated is a different conversation and one worth having).

[inaho.2046]

EDIT - on try #102 I finally beat him. The trick it to run from him until he drops the yellow circle, immediately press v twice then face him and shoot your bow at him, rinse and repeat ad nauseam. He will eventually die. Damn if thats not the most evil boss in a story.

I'm playing a dragon hunter guardian. I just cannot keep my distance. he is twice as fast as me walking and faster still running. I set traps and only one of the traps I have stops him. Dodging does not stop the health drain but it does let me do somersaults trapped in his beam. All exotic armor and weapons - and I cannot dent him without him sucking me dry and filling himself up. I've died over 100 times on this one fight - and I finished the Tyria missions, and HoT. This is just beyond frustrating. I have tried everything suggested. If I couldn't play, as many have said then I wouldn't have finished the other 2 and killed Zhaitan and Mordremoth. And for the record the battle in Mordremoths mind was a pain with Eir most vulnerable when her pooch was down - but there were speedboost mushrooms everywhere that let me kite effectively and I cleared it on the 4th try with the grace of God and a few instant repair canisters. But unless I want to build another character just to beat this boss and shepherd them through everything I've already done all over again - then it's unplayable. A game really starts to lose it's enjoyment factor on the 100th+ death. Just allowing my guild mates to help me and themselves through this mission would make it playable. I could get a group together like I did to kill Zhaitan which required five anyway. This just kills the story by stopping it dead in it's tracks. I can't skip this and finish the story, and I cannot get past it. The PoF story comes to an abrupt dead end here and I am not alone - unless you can bring in other players to help actually fight - I'm done here. Making me think I shouldn't splurge on the new expansion either since I can't finish this one. It's not good for business long term to leave so many people that frustrated and stuck unable to complete the story.

[Haishao.6851]

@inaho.2046 said:I'm playing a dragon hunter guardian. I just cannot keep my distance. he is twice as fast as me walking and faster still running. I set traps and only one of the traps I have stops him. Dodging does not stop the health drain but it does let me do somersaults trapped in his beam. All exotic armor and weapons - and I cannot dent him without him sucking me dry and filling himself up. I've died over 100 times on this one fight - and I finished the Tyria missions, and HoT. This is just beyond frustrating. I have tried everything suggested. If I couldn't play, as many have said then I wouldn't have finished the other 2 and killed Zhaitan and Mordremoth. And for the record the battle in Mordremoths mind was a pain with Eir most vulnerable when her pooch was down - but there were speedboost mushrooms everywhere that let me kite effectively and I cleared it on the 4th try with the grace of God and a few instant repair canisters. But unless I want to build another character just to beat this boss and shepherd them through everything I've already done all over again - then it's unplayable. A game really starts to lose it's enjoyment factor on the 100th+ death. Just allowing my guild mates to help me and themselves through this mission would make it playable. I could get a group together like I did to kill Zhaitan which required five anyway. This just kills the story by stopping it dead in it's tracks. I can't skip this and finish the story, and I cannot get past it. The PoF story comes to an abrupt dead end here and I am not alone - unless you can bring in other players to help actually fight - I'm done here. Making me think I shouldn't splurge on the new expansion either since I can't finish this one. It's not good for business long term to leave so many people that frustrated and stuck unable to complete the story.

I can come do it for you if you're in NA and want to.

[Majic.4801]

Run, dodge twice, shoot.

Got it. ;)

[Coulter.2315]

@Majic.4801 said:Run, dodge twice, shoot.

Got it. ;)

Just interupt him.

[Majic.4801]

@Coulter.2315 said:

@Majic.4801 said:Run, dodge twice, shoot.

Got it. ;)

Just interupt him.

Too complicated. :p

[Dondarrion.2748]

@inaho.2046 said:EDIT - on try #102 I finally beat him. The trick it to run from him until he drops the yellow circle, immediately press v twice then face him and shoot your bow at him, rinse and repeat ad nauseam. He will eventually die. kitten if thats not the most evil boss in a story.

Liadri says hi!Liadri 8-orbs says hi even louder! ;)