Mounts unhealthy for core player experience ?

[zeronatras.3280]

Oh holly molly!How could they make a feature of an expansion not avaible to the people who didn't bought it!I'm triggered and I think every f2p player should get a full ascended gear with every stat they wish, gliding with spawnable under player updrafts and being allowed to raid with 200% bonus... This gama is totally p2w!Ok. I can't be sarcastic this much, this thread is stupid, OP is whiny, buy expansion and don't cry you casual.

[TEKnowledgy.1760]

@zeronatras.3280 said:Oh holly molly!How could they make a feature of an expansion not avaible to the people who didn't bought it!I'm triggered and I think every f2p player should get a full ascended gear with every stat they wish, gliding with spawnable under player updrafts and being allowed to raid with 200% bonus... This gama is totally p2w!Ok. I can't be sarcastic this much, this thread is stupid, OP is whiny, buy expansion and don't cry you casual.

Problem is Op bought expansion haha.

[dusanyu.4057]

wow someone complains about mounts being a Unfair advantage over core only and FTP players, if those are unfair wait until you get a load of these https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Specialization#Elite_specializations they offer a a real advantage in combat but I understand mounts are more flashy and more drool worthy. Dont worry I understand the power of the green eyed monster.

[TEKnowledgy.1760]

@dusanyu.4057 said:wow someone complains about mounts being a Unfair advantage over core only and FTP players, if those are unfair wait until you get a load of these https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Specialization#Elite_specializations they offer a a real advantage in combat but I understand mounts are more flashy and more drool worthy. Dont worry I understand the power of the green eyed monster.

Right, it wouldn't be as bad as it sound with mounts if it was a legitimate argument say based on PvP and WvW ya know but PvE content haha it's laughable and sad at the same time.

[Veprovina.4876]

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@Veprovina.4876 said:

@Cristalyan.5728 said:

Exactly this. I'm worried about this also.But it seems that the others are not. They

bought

the expansion to have an

advantage

over the others (but this is not pay to win). To keep this advantage they don't care about the future. Even if this is the future of the game they play.

What advantage do people have with mounts over those without mounts? Come on, tell me an example... Not just an imaginary one, a real one.People didn't buy PoF to have an advantage over f2p players, they bought it because most of them already did the content you're complaining about now (and are enjoying for free while the majority of the players had to pay for what you're playing free now). So since most players already did 100% map completion in core tyria and probably also HoT, they bought it for some new game content which happen to be mounts among other things. They certainly didn't buy it just to "win" at core tyria maps.

There is actually an advantage .. it's much easier to get around and do map completion. Remember all those hard to jump to vistas? Not anymore ... just break our the Rabbit. Remember the days when Guardian had to take Traveler's runes? not anymore, any mount get's you whereever you want fast.

It's also super easy to avoid areas in OW packed with mobs with mounts. Running through some places was just not an option, now mounts ignore immobilize, etc.... you can go whereever you want with impunity.

Don't get me wrong though ... even though there are advantages, i don't think the OP is correct in thinking they shouldn't be available outside a paid expansion.

That is not an advantage, that's a "quality of life" improvement if anything. There are no unreachable areas on core Tyria that require mounts. Some are even designed to not be reachable easily to make it fun to look for paths to them. That's what we did when we had no mounts and everyone did map completion regardless of mounts. I did mine a week or two before i actually bought the expansions. It's not hard to youtube a vista or something you don't know how to get to and look at the path instead of jumping to it with a rabbit.

You can also go wherever you want in core Tyria too. Running is an option, aggro radius is not that huge like in PoF. And if some earea is giving someone trouble then perhaps they're not leveled enough or geared enough to be there yet. So instead of using mounts, those players could go level some more. That's the game's way of telling people "yo, level or gear up or you'll have your kitten handed to you in later content". If they bypass that with mounts, they'll never learn. :wink:

An advantage would be if players with mounts have get bigger XP, karma and loot rewards for using mounts in events and map completion over those that don't. Since the rewards are the same for everyone, there's no advantage to speak of there. Mounts in core tyria are just a QoL improvement for people that already did that content.

If i'm being honest, i'd personally lock mounts and the whole PoF if you didn't finish your personal story and are lvl 80. That way core Tyria still has relevance (if people think it's not relevant anymore) and no one can QQ that someone has cool toys and they don't.

No, it is an advantage. Some of these things trivalize the game as it was intended. As just one example ... before there were hard vistas ... and they were designed that way. Now with mounts there are none. Another example ... you could be controlled by mobs as you ran past them, now you are immune to these effects. These are definitely advantages, as they save you time ... saving time in any MMO is an advantage.

No, those are not QoL improvements. Mounts making content irrelevant is not QoL.

Are you intentionally daft or just trolling? Or did you just convince yourself that, because reasons, logic suddenly doesn't work?There is nothing preventing you from getting to hard vistas the way they were designed by walking. If you couldn't get to some places in core tyria without mounts, then it would be a disadvantage not to own a mount. But there is no place in core Tyria that you cannot access without a mount, therefore you are not at a disadvantage for now owning a mount!!!

You can use speed boosts your character has (haste) to run past mobs like everyone has been doing since forever and mount's aren't immune to mobs. Sure, the core tyria ones are no big deal, but then again, i can kill anything in core tyria with spamming 1 in 2-3 hits. So what's your point? You're so overwhelmed by mobs that you can't get past them? Go level. Mounts aren't going to help you there, even if you get past them, there's content you can't do if you're not geared and leveled enough.

Content is not irrelevant. As long as it's there and available for someone to play it, it is not irrelevant. It servers, if nothing else, for new players to explore the game, to do map completion, to level your character in case you haven't boosted it already and a lot of people need to do content there where mounts aren't permitted (fractals, dungeons, etc.), WvW, PvP, for various rewards and reasons. Where's the advantage in WvW? Who has it? Or in PvP. Are players somehow better with mounts than the ones without?

And if PvE content and time is your competition, and you are at a disadvantage for that reason, then there is a price to pay, it's called the Path of Fire expansion and it costs 30€. Deal with it and stop pretending like mounts suddenly hurt everyone who don't own them.

Want a mount to "trivialize" your core tyria content? Buy Path of Fire.You'll be disappointed at how little difference core tyria is with a mount.You can get places faster. Yaaayy....

EDIT: Reading your other posts it seems like you're going out of your way to convince yourself that you have personally been victimized somehow by a game adding mounts and that anet did this to hurt you and players like you. It doesn't work that way. People presented you with good arguments that what you say isn't what you think it is, yet you persistently think you are the victim and that everyone has an advantage over you because mounts...

I finished half my ascended armor without Heart of Thorns. I did map completion without mounts. What's stopping you to slow down and enjoy the scenery and immersion? It's still there, you just have to look past the jealousy you so obviously have for players with mounts, and just chill out, take in the scenery, and just play the game at your own pace. There is no competition here.

[Obtena.7952]

@TEKnowledgy.1760 said:

@Obtena.7952 said:

@TEKnowledgy.1760 said:i don't take mounts as an advantage over me, i can do things certain things just as quickly on foot with swiftness.

That's not what I'm talking about. You might be fixated on some kind of race concept; I have never eluded to anything of the sort. I'm talking about real advantages you can't get without a mount, like avoiding mob control or gaining easy location access. For instance I completed a mastery in Orr easily because of a mount. Perhaps Anet will fix that but for now, it exists. Those are REAL advantages over someone who is on foot.

maybe it's way you word things you come accross as sounding out of favor of mounts because people can do this or that. I can evade mobs run every map using swiftness not from advantage of swiftness maybe advantage of knowledge but thats something you can't put a rule on.

Yes you can, but you need to 'pay' for that by making your build have swiftness somehow ... with mounts you don't; with mounts you simply gain a free 'gear' slot to get more advantages. There is no way to deny that mounts offer the advantages I've referred to. The question here is if those advantages should be in the F2P package of the game. I don't believe they should, because they aren't necessary for F2P players in the parts of the game they can access.

@Veprovina.4876 said:

Are you intentionally daft or just trolling? Or did you just convince yourself that, because reasons, logic suddenly doesn't work?There is nothing preventing you from getting to hard vistas the way they were designed by walking.

Neither. Whether you can get to hard vistas without mounts or do other stuff without mounts has NOTHING to do with mounts giving players advantages over players that don't have them. If there is logic here, it's evading you, not me. There is TONS of stuff you can do without 'things' but that doesn't mean that having 'things' doesn't give you advantages. The main problem is that having mounts allows you to do things that you shouldn't be able to do .. like get that Mastery point at the top of Malchor's Leap JP ... and a WHOLE bunch of other places I've been using it in Core Tyria. That IS an advantage over players that don't have mounts ... whether you like to admit it or not. It's borderline obtuse at this point to not see the advantage that the extra mount gear slot gives you. This is simply another gear slot ... highly specialized, but it is exactly that.

[castlemanic.3198]

I think it's hilarious how people are trying to justify saying mounts aren't an advantage. By the very definition of advantage, having a mount is having an advantage over those who don't. The ability to run past mobs you'd otherwise have to spend a non-trivial amount of energy dealing with or getting past is an advantage. Going to hard to reach places with ease via mounts are an advantage. Being able to reach an event faster than others, especially from halfway across the map, is an advantage. Mounts, in every definition of the word, are an advantage.

However, simply because mounts are objectively advantages, it does not mean they trivialize content. Nor, would I say, does it mean they put players without mounts at a disadvantage in most scenarios. Barring the overtuned engage abilities, I think it's unreasonable to say that mounts should entirely be removed from central tyria because they trivialize content or put other players at a disadvantage. There is a slight problem with players reaching places faster and preventing players from even getting event contribution, but that more has to do with the overtuned engage abilities than something in general about mounts. The problem of perhaps not getting event contribution has always existed from the beginning and is not something mount exclusive, nor do mounts overly exaggerate those concerns. There are perhaps some scenarios which mounts may prove overpowered, but i've yet to experience that myself. Once the mount engage skills in non-level 80 zones are nerfed, I think most of the complaints will go away. All the content is still doable, jumping puzzles remove the ability for mounts and gliders to be used and as a whole, mounts are unnecessary for successful world completion.

[TEKnowledgy.1760]

Well, guess ya'll have 3 options.

1. get used to it
2. buy the expansion
3. quit the game.

With all due respect.Anet had plenty of time to prevent it before PoF was released. They had to know people would use them in core tyria i fail to believe they had no idea or future insight considering the game is 5 years old and lasted this long. If they had no idea or didn't mean for it to be used on any other content advantage or not period, they would have prevented it just like they did with jumping puzzles, PvP side and WvW side. Same goes for gliders.

So on topic do I think "Mounts unhealthy for core player experience?"Big fat NO i never felt that way before I bought PoF and i don't think so after I bought it.

If F2P players and i mean specifically those that never plan on supporting the devs or anet on the game left, nobodies feelings will be hurt. Anet nor anyone else wont lose anything in the long term. For every 1 that quits today, tomorrow will be 5 people to replace them you can bet least 2 out of that 5 will buy into the game. The entire intention behind gw2 even going free 2 play was more like a trial, it's to suck you in, to get you into the game, to where you will invest into it with $. All free to play games are based on this marketing concept, it's why so many MMO's past, present and future do it. Either by starting out that way or eventually switching to it. Because they make more money that way.

It's nothing new, it's not a new concept or a new marketing idea, if people haven't learnt how it works by now for atleast the past 12 years of this marketing practice then they've got alot to learn. Also will be very disappointed when they can't have what those who pay real money have.F2P peeps may not like this fact or this truth of it, but like I said you have 3 options pick one.

Just remember this, lets say anet goes in makes a patch prevents PoF buyers from using mounts in core, the people that caused this patch to happen can kiss there ability good bye in the future for possible core mounts just because the patch now prevents it. Also because all those who bought PoF will no longer back the idea of it, i know i wont.Life taught me alot in 37 years don't help those who run it over you once, because they'll do it again until you stand up for yourself and for what you truly believe in.Why would I help people that wanted to see me suffer and or be limited with something I paid for?Personally, I probably would have supported the idea of core mounts in the future, but give it atleast a year, let people get there money out of it
Let anet profit from it its win/win for both players and development.

Also if such a patch was pushed because of said complainers, the ability to do it themselves in the future, if they ever bought into PoF would vanish.They will cut their own throats so to speak.I guarantee, those same people will be right back here moaning & complaining they can't do core tyria on mounts and the things they themselves complained about other people doing in the first place.
Wouldn't be the first time I seen it, probably wouldn't be the last.

Anyways, that's my bottom line, I've said all i got to say on the subject. You need to think about the future, not just the present on this subject. You might regret what you complain about today, a year from now.

[hellsqueen.3045]

@castlemanic.3198 said:I think it's hilarious how people are trying to justify saying mounts aren't an advantage. By the very definition of advantage, having a mount is having an advantage over those who don't. The ability to run past mobs you'd otherwise have to spend a non-trivial amount of energy dealing with or getting past is an advantage. Going to hard to reach places with ease via mounts are an advantage. Being able to reach an event faster than others, especially from halfway across the map, is an advantage. Mounts, in every definition of the word, are an advantage.

However, simply because mounts are objectively advantages, it does not mean they trivialize content. Nor, would I say, does it mean they put players without mounts at a disadvantage in most scenarios. Barring the overtuned engage abilities, I think it's unreasonable to say that mounts should entirely be removed from central tyria because they trivialize content or put other players at a disadvantage. There is a slight problem with players reaching places faster and preventing players from even getting event contribution, but that more has to do with the overtuned engage abilities than something in general about mounts. The problem of perhaps not getting event contribution has always existed from the beginning and is not something mount exclusive, nor do mounts overly exaggerate those concerns. There are perhaps some scenarios which mounts may prove overpowered, but i've yet to experience that myself. Once the mount engage skills in non-level 80 zones are nerfed, I think most of the complaints will go away. All the content is still doable, jumping puzzles remove the ability for mounts and gliders to be used and as a whole, mounts are unnecessary for successful world completion.

It may be an advantage but it is ever so slight in core tyria because THERE ARE THAT MANY WAY POINTS.

[castlemanic.3198]

@hellsqueen.3045 said:

@castlemanic.3198 said:I think it's hilarious how people are trying to justify saying mounts aren't an advantage. By the very definition of advantage, having a mount is having an advantage over those who don't. The ability to run past mobs you'd otherwise have to spend a non-trivial amount of energy dealing with or getting past is an advantage. Going to hard to reach places with ease via mounts are an advantage. Being able to reach an event faster than others, especially from halfway across the map, is an advantage. Mounts, in

every

definition of the word, are an advantage.

However, simply because mounts are objectively advantages, it does not mean they trivialize content. Nor, would I say, does it mean they put players without mounts at a disadvantage in most scenarios. Barring the overtuned engage abilities, I think it's unreasonable to say that mounts should entirely be removed from central tyria because they trivialize content or put other players at a disadvantage. There is a slight problem with players reaching places faster and preventing players from even getting event contribution, but that more has to do with the overtuned engage abilities than something in general about mounts. The problem of perhaps not getting event contribution has always existed from the beginning and is not something mount exclusive, nor do mounts overly exaggerate those concerns. There are perhaps some scenarios which mounts may prove overpowered, but i've yet to experience that myself. Once the mount engage skills in non-level 80 zones are nerfed, I think most of the complaints will go away. All the content is still doable, jumping puzzles remove the ability for mounts and gliders to be used and as a whole, mounts are unnecessary for successful world completion.

It may be an advantage but it is ever so slight in core tyria because THERE ARE THAT MANY WAY POINTS.

I don't think you read the entirety of my post.

[Swagger.1459]

The only thing “unhealthy” is giving more free stuff to free players... “Free” doesn’t fund continued development, and that hurts the paying players.

Players want mounts? Buy the xpac, get the mounts and show support for the future of the game.

[Lunarlife.5128]

I love mounts.

[Faaris.8013]

Mounts unhealthy for core player experience?

Like to all articles that end with a question mark, the answer is no.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines

I'm having a ball with my characters on mounts in Core Tyria.

[Dezzie.5903]

@hellsqueen.3045 said:There is no problem with mounts in core tyria other than the current strength of the initiation skills being scaled incorrectly which is going to be fixed.

As someone still working my way through to 80 this has really been my only concern with mounts. Having been shut out of some Events by players on mounts using the mount attack is extremely frustrating. Other than that I feel pretty neutral about them. With the plethora of Waypoints I don't feel particularly slow getting around.

[TEKnowledgy.1760]

@Jaquelidor.2618 said:

@hellsqueen.3045 said:There is no problem with mounts in core tyria other than the current strength of the initiation skills being scaled incorrectly which is going to be fixed.

As someone still working my way through to 80 this has really been my only concern with mounts. Having been shut out of some Events by players on mounts using the mount attack is extremely frustrating. Other than that I feel pretty neutral about them. With the plethora of Waypoints I don't feel particularly slow getting around.

Try that https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Event_timers as example. There is sites all over the internet that track timers and spawn points for events and bosses.It's called research, those that complain about it should probably consider researching a little more into them. Most of this advantage you think that exist based on mounts is actually caused by other things, people taking out event bosses etc before any get there have had advantages from the 1st day static timers was invented and the websites that track them.I don't see nobody concerned about the timer website on wiki or the rest of the fan sites before pre-pof or even as we speak.

What I'm trying to point out here, most people that want to do said events get there before they even start. Only reason you notice they even had a mount is because once they beat said bosses or events is because they activating them after its complete and/or sitting on mounts when you arrive. As for completely random spawns and events they have always been first come first serve basis, hell when i was core only before any expac ever dropped i'd be out n about doing my thing, an event would trigger. I would lay that event out before any body else got there, just how it is. No rules saying i have to wait for other people.

The solution i see that might make everyone happy, is put a grace period on events and bosses (champs w/e) so say first 5 mins after they trigger or spawn theres immunity for events and champs. win/win for both payers and f2p. If you can't get there in 5 mins with the abundance of wps and timer websites that come FREE then tuff luck your fault entirely for not keeping track of said events.

Let me touch on other things like vistas, jp, hps and mastery points. There has been guides since the first day of gw2 that help short cut them for people to abuse these guides are no more or less an advantage than using said mount to skip a hard part, if you want people to do them naturally as intended you need start banning guides to. (personally i don't support banning guides even if I prefer not to use them be hard to anyways) It's the same point in the end though. Gonna point out all advantages of mounts, It is fair I point out all the advantage that FREE guides give everyone that uses them. If we gonna lay it on the table then lets lay it all on the table, lets be fair about it. Why you picking an choosing which items or things give advantage are ok and not ok?

[Cyndercat.7615]

The only possible problem with mounts in core tyria is people rushing to event spawns on mounts and finishing it before you can get there on foot, and thats more a problem with scaling than mounts themselves.

Otherwise mounts make 0 difference to an individuals core tyria experience so theres no issue with them unless you are someone who gets all angry about how other people play the game in ways which have no impact at all on you.

[TEKnowledgy.1760]

@zombyturtle.5980 said:The only possible problem with mounts in core tyria is people rushing to event spawns on mounts and finishing it before you can get there on foot, and thats more a problem with scaling than mounts themselves.

Otherwise mounts make 0 difference to an individuals core tyria experience so theres no issue with them unless you are someone who gets all angry about how other people play the game in ways which have no impact at all on you.

read the post i made above yours, there is no advantage over anyone. because of all that information i linked and told you about. F2P players have no solid ground or proof that mounters get there first its speculation and misleading or false information.once you prove mounters get there first you also disprove they did because you a non mounter was there to get said proof.....Tell me how the argument can stand then?

What I'm saying here is if a non-mount user got to said event or boss to get this proof. Why are the other f2p players unable to do the same?This argument from a F2P players side has no facts or proof backing it. None what so ever. it's speculation and/or assumption, thats it.Lets say a mount rider gets there and proves it, just because they can, still who is to blame the mount or the one using it? If he chose to use a mount to get there first it isn't the mounts fault it's the player being unfair himself.

Ok you go get mounts stopped in tyria guess what those people know nothing about the timer websites are still at disadvantage because now we just go back to old ways to get to event start 5 mins or 10 mins some people even wait 30 mins to get first dibs on the event/champs. probably still are.

So with now all the available information timers guides on the table, tell me how mounts have any more advantage over said information? That is readily available and has been available since the 1st day gw2 was released. (except for timers, that came with release of the api access)Lets not pick and choose based on envy with this subject.

[tekfan.3179]

If the movementspeed would be any argument, then even the core game shows the same imbalances. Why? The +25% movementspeed some classes have.While certain classes have signets and traits to increase their movementspeed passively by 25%, the guardian has to spam skills or equip a special runeset.Then there's also the mesmer with its' portal, which is a total advantage in jumping puzzles.Speaking of jumping puzzles: Small characters have less problems with the camera in jp areas. So should the game also hand out free makeover kits to f2p-players who filled up their character slots with charr and norn? Or even free character slots while we're at it?

F2p-players get the entire base game as a trial experience. While I sure can get behind the point of expanding the player base, somewhere there has to be an incentive to actually buy the game.There is but one thing I could get behind: A mount race track in Lions Arch(raptor or skimmer).There was a moa racetrack in the old Lions Arch, so there is a tradition of racing in the city. All players could participate in the race, f2p-users could get a whiff at the mounts and it would be limited enough, I guess.

[Drecien.4508]

If you just bought the core game and want free stuff get in line. We all do. The difference is we bought it and HOT/POF and support the continued game. You have no disadvantage that you cannot fix yourself. F2p is like a demo, you like it, buy. This mentality of trying Nerf the mounts/gliders so people can have a "fair chance" is out of hand. If you remain a core only player no one will fix that but you. I know it sounds entitled and it should. I probably have funded a large map myself in gemstore expenditures over the years lol. I purchased the expansions because the game is great and I'm willing to see it continue. I wanted the shines offered in the expacs so it's very easy to drop some money on anything I enjoy.

[SlateSloan.3654]

i dont think hot or pof players have any advantage as there is no competitive gameplay connected to mounts. its like using a train or car in real life. you pay for it you got a ride, you dont you walk by foot.

[Dezzie.5903]

@TEKnowledgy.1760 said:

@Jaquelidor.2618 said:

@hellsqueen.3045 said:There is no problem with mounts in core tyria other than the current strength of the initiation skills being scaled incorrectly which is going to be fixed.

As someone still working my way through to 80 this has really been my only concern with mounts. Having been shut out of some Events by players on mounts using the mount attack is extremely frustrating. Other than that I feel pretty neutral about them. With the plethora of Waypoints I don't feel particularly slow getting around.

What I'm trying to point out here, most people that want to do said events get there before they even start. Only reason you notice they even had a mount is because once they beat said bosses or events is because they activating them after its complete and/or sitting on mounts when you arrive. As for completely random spawns and events they have always been first come first serve basis, hell when i was core only before any expac ever dropped i'd be out n about doing my thing, an event would trigger. I would lay that event out before any body else got there, just how it is. No rules saying i have to wait for other people.

When I speak of being shut out of Events I'm not referring to getting to an Event after it had ended. I had that happen before mounts were added. I'm talking about arriving at an Event in progress and being shut out of participating in the Event by players using the mount attack skill. For example, "Find the escaped experiments and bring them back to Zaxis" in Caldeon Forest. I was on my Mesmer and arrived at the Event with it about 1/3 in progress. Present were three players with the Raptor mount. Between the three of them I was unable to kill/collect even one of the experiments. It wasn't simply their ability to cover ground more quickly but that the attack let them one-shot the minis before I could even act. I'd done the Event over a dozen times prior to PoF and never once been so thoroughly locked out. Even when it was running as part of the Completionist with a dozen or so high players participating.

[kharmin.7683]

I've had fairly good success at events asking others to not mount-kill things so that others have a chance. Granted, it shouldn't fall to some players to ask others to not wipe events. I'm hopeful that ANet will reduce the dismount damage in lower tier zones.

[phys.7689]

@Coulter.2315 said:Mounts in Core Tyria are a massive nudge for F2P to buy PoF, this is a good thing. You cannot expect a company, which needs to employ people to make new content for you and me, to survive on the good feelings F2P players get.

the main reason for f2p in general isnt because its nice, its because it enhances the game.

That said, each monetization policy/plan is different, and gw2 primary purpose for having f2p players in pve is to create supply and demand for gold, and to encourage people to eventually buy the game. So yeah mount advantage in core fits perfectly with their plan.

in pvp, f2p serves a different purpose, so if they decide to add mounts or something to pvp, they will probably need a solution for that.

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

OK, so another problem with the mounts being allowed into core tyria is currently the labyrinth. I was running around in there without using my mount and found that I couldn't get to a single door closing event in there before a bunch of people got there and shut it all while i was pulling aggro to get through the maze. Basically if you don't have a mount, don't even bother since the labyrinth events aren't meant for you. Seriously. There's no point. And before people try to say boo about this, please remember that F2P players are plentiful and there could be reasons why they are F2P for now. Having an event like this basically exclude them by virtue of them not having a mount to keep up will increase the chance of them never buying the game out of frustration. It gives the impression of pay to win. Furthermore some people probably still weren't sold on the idea of getting PoF and this will further alienate them. (And no that's not just conjecture as I know a few people personally that fall into this category.)

I'm just trying to figure out why Anet allowed mounts into the place at all. They serve no purpose in there and if they are keeping them out of core story steps they could have kept them out of the labyrinth and kept new players on the same field as vets that own PoF.

[Tatori.7938]

@PookieDaWombat.6209 said:OK, so another problem with the mounts being allowed into core tyria is currently the labyrinth. I was running around in there without using my mount and found that I couldn't get to a single door closing event in there before a bunch of people got there and shut it all while i was pulling aggro to get through the maze. Basically if you don't have a mount, don't even bother since the labyrinth events aren't meant for you. Seriously. There's no point. And before people try to say boo about this, please remember that F2P players are plentiful and there could be reasons why they are F2P for now. Having an event like this basically exclude them by virtue of them not having a mount to keep up will increase the chance of them never buying the game out of frustration. It gives the impression of pay to win. Furthermore some people probably still weren't sold on the idea of getting PoF and this will further alienate them. (And no that's not just conjecture as I know a few people personally that fall into this category.)

I have managed to get to the doors in time, and the bosses by joining those massive squads who scale up all the mobs (so I have enough time to run there). I do agree with the core point that the Labyrinth is insanely alienating for those who do not own Path of Fire. I have 5/6 of the Exotic armor pieces, and I am missing the "Complete the race in the Labyrinth in under 2 minutes" achievement to earn my last piece of Exotic armor towards the set. Have you tried to complete the race on foot? You can barely make it to the finish line let alone that fast! This was an achievement and piece of armor designed for mounts in mind, no one else. Everyone on their mounts drag all the mobs forward, then lose aggro because of how fast they move. Everyone on foot? Takes all aggro and has to deal with somehow staying out of combat. Yeah, that's fair...

I want to end on two points:1- I am NOT free to play. Do not give me "this is what free players should deal with" crap that I've seen posted throughout this thread. I own the base game, and have Heart of Thorns and was undecided on Path of Fire until I had read some reviews first.2- I am sure as hell not going to buy the expansion pack through force tactics. I remember only buying Heart of Thorns because I could no longer participate in PvP since my class was underpowered without the expansion pack, and everyone told me "Get it for the gliders". I refuse to buy a second expansion in a row for the gimmick of "Get it for the mounts". I don't think Firebrand looks better than Dragonhunter for my play-style, and from the reviews I have read, the new maps are great once, but not re-playable.