Making Scourge Heavy Support in PVE — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Making Scourge Heavy Support in PVE

Maunzi.3764Maunzi.3764 Member ✭✭✭
edited October 18, 2017 in Necromancer

First things first: This is not about PvP. The changes for PvP are fine, and I don't mind us being drastically weaker there.

This topic is entirely about PVE. Karl confirmed here that we will NOT be getting competitive DPS, because we are heavy support.

Here is the problem: This is only accurate in PVP. In PVE, our support is poor, and usable only for terrible groups.
This topic is about constructive suggestions for the next balance patch to ensure that we remain "Heavy Support" in PVE as well, so it is justified that we lack the DPS other professions can bring to the table. It is apparently design intent that Scourge cannot do as much DPS, so this is the avenue we have left.

Scourge vs cPS, Druid and Chrono
In PvE, any "Heavy Support" spec needs to be able to contribute as much as either a Chrono, a Druid, or a cPS Warrior. This is why almost every serious group throughout PVE uses this group composition - it is by far the strongest comp available in nearly every PvE situation. High-CM fractals, raids, you name it. There is no content in the game that isn't made easier with this group.

SCOURGE VS cPS
Scourge: Can generate 25 might, in a small radius (<300). Can cleanse conditions, boons, can heal apply barrier if giving up all DPS.
cPS: Empower Allies, Banner, 25 might in a huge radius, 30k+ benchmark DPS

This is an almost comically unfair comparison. Warrior has several team buffs, and warrior might generation is much less finnicky than Scourge: Not only is the radius much larger (allowing the team to be spread more), there's also less of a problem with the need to be turned towards the target. The only way Scourge offers additional utility (barrier, blood revive) is by giving up the DPS. Scourge is a huge group DPS loss if replacing a cPS. A group needs to be REALLY struggling with constant wipes and downed people for this to be worth it.

SCOURGE VS DRUID
Scourge: Can generate 25 might, in a small radius (<300). Can cleanse conditions, boons, can heal apply barrier if giving up all DPS.
Druid: Spirit of the Sun, Spirit of Frost, Spotter, Grace of the Land, massive healing, cleansing conditions

This is another unfair comparison. 25might is not relevant, because the group will already have a cPS warrior. The condi cleanse is slightly in the scourge's favor, but the healing is SO much stronger on the druid. The druid cannot provide barrier against spikes, but instead adds a HUGE dps buff (~7% from GOTL, both spirits, AND spotter)
If a Scourge replaces both the druid AND the warrior, you have healing and might, but lose so much DPS that it's like running with one person less. Awesome!

SCOURGE VS CHRONO
Scourge: Can generate 25 might, in a small radius (<300). Can cleanse conditions, boons, can heal apply barrier if giving up all DPS.
Chrono: Alacrity, Quickness, Blur, Reflectss

Alacrity and quicktime are too important to replace by themselves, because they allow both protective and offensive skills to be used much more often. And even barrier compares very poorly. Much like blur, barrier needs to be timed, but blur prevents damage outright, negating the attack utterly. If Scourge had Alacrity instead of might generation, we might be able to replace the off-chrono still, but without, nope.

Why do I keep pointing out the huge DPS loss for bringing a Scourge`
Why is DPS so important? Am I a speedrunner? NO.
But offense is the best defense. If you can take keep construct to the next phase with only one set of orb pushing, you have a much higher chance of success. The longer a fight takes, the more mechanics allow a chance to fail. A scourge may be able to prevent a wipe by reviving people, but so can a warrior with a well-placed banner. At the same time, warrior, druid and chrono prevent wipes by ensuring the fight does not keep dragging on. The sooner a boss dies, the less the party is at risk.

With this being established, Scourge needs something to help us in PVE, to attain the "Heavy Support" we are supposed to have. This something needs to be PVE exclusive, to not risk balancing in PVP. I propose the following:

  1. Barrier gets an increased duration if you attribute for it. Concentration would be a good fit, as would vitality
  2. New Trait: Barriers apply a damage buff while they last to anyone they are applied to [PVE Only]
  3. New Trait in a core necro line: Skills with boon corruption do not corrupt boons any longer. Instead, they apply a [take X% more damage] debuff for 10 seconds. [THIS WOULD BE A CORE NECRO BUFF]

OR

  1. Add a Boon Conversion -> Alacrity for group swap trait. A group can then replace the off chrono (the most difficult to find character usually) with a Scourge, as long as a Firebrand provides the quickness. [THIS WOULD BE A CORE NECRO BUFF]

Suggestion 1 and 2 allow a Scourge to strongly spec support, increase the viability of their support, and BUFF their allies while doing so (which, as Druid or Warrior show, is incredibly important). The flavor is different from the way a druid does so, but the concept is the same. 3, meanwhile, allows both scourge and core necro to benefit from boon corrupting skills in PVE. This would be a buff for all necros, giving all of them additional utility that they give up boon corruption for.

Suggestion 4 helps Firebrand utility at the same time, and gives another use for boon conversion in PVE as well.

Just my thoughts. I feel we really need this HEAVY SUPPORT Karl mentioned - and we need it in PVE, not just PVP.

Comments

  • If a scourge replaces both a Druid and a Warrior you ARE playing with one less person lol.

    Scourge really does have a lot of support and there are a few things that I feel like you're either intentionally glossing over or missing.


    Barrier isn't "healing". It's a bubble that prevents you from taking damage allowing a person to heal. In my mind, a Scourge's access to barriers compliments any healing abilities extremely well because it makes group wide healing EASIER. Raising the effective HP on everybody is a big deal. If you think of Barrier as heals you're looking at it in too simple of a light imho.

    The gameplay of Barriers reminds me a little of Prot Monks in GW1 and how they complimented Healy Monks. It's not exactly the same, by any means, but the basic idea is similar.

    I disagree about losing all our damage in order to be supportive.

    For starters, how does giving somebody a barrier, while simultaneously giving them might and removing conditions, count as not contributing damage. Heck, with one click of simply placing my Manifest Shade (something I would do ANYWAYS), I can grant somebody a barrier, remove a condition, grant 2 stacks of might, do damage, and apply burning, cripple, & torment. It's LITERALLY the definition of doing damage while giving support.


    tl;dr Scourge isn't lacking support. It's not about replacing any one spec, but about how does a Scourge compliment other professions and coming up with a group comp that works well together. Personally, I love having a scourge with any regen heavy comp.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Interesting.

    So do you guys think then that a support scourge necro is viable as a support raid team? what about for high level fractals?

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Exqq.7451Exqq.7451 Member ✭✭✭

    Get DPS up to 33k and reduce barrier max to 25% HP but no longer degrade and I'll be happy. Then for training groups or when you want some wiggle room you choose to lose SOME dps by bringing a Scourge but provide the team with a huge bump in sustain.

  • Maunzi.3764Maunzi.3764 Member ✭✭✭

    Make our increased expertise and concentration apply to others who are affected by our barriers or/and stand in our shades.

    The problem with this is that the classes that care are usually capped, meaning that it'd not do as much :( Otherwise it'd be a great idea to give the shades some proper support for PVE.

  • Remember about a year or so ago when nobody ever cleared any raids because the highest dps in the meta was ~30k and people routinely used 23k dps builds? Good thing we were all saved by power creep. Top dps or trash! No necros or revs! Condi or gtfo! Support your local Ele! (Seriously, he can’t do anything for himself. He needs a lot of support.)

    Wait, people still cleared raids then? All of them? Without any issues? Huh... that’s, umm... inconvenient.

  • @Amenon.9126 said:

    @mygamingid.5816 said:
    Remember about a year or so ago when nobody ever cleared any raids because the highest dps in the meta was ~30k and people routinely used 23k dps builds? Good thing we were all saved by power creep. Top dps or trash! No necros or revs! Condi or gtfo! Support your local Ele! (Seriously, he can’t do anything for himself. He needs a lot of support.)

    Wait, people still cleared raids then? All of them? Without any issues? Huh... that’s, umm... inconvenient.

    So what you are saying is that while everyone got a huge boost, its ok for necro to pull the same numbers as 2 years ago. AMIRITE?

    Nah, what I’m saying is that the golem dps chart doesn’t and shouldn’t matter for balance and that it shouldn’t matter for dps-based comp decisions. Raiders need to stop being elitist kittens and just play the game. If 23k can do it - and easily - then you can suck it up and play with a profession that doesn’t top the charts.

    Necro needs buffed. I agree, power particularly. What it doesn’t need is theoretical large-hitbox Staff Weaver DPS (significantly lower in practice and laughably lower against small hitbox) because Necros of all types offer a lot more than Staff Weaver. Whether those things are useful under the current raid meta is moot. They exist and are part of the Necro profession and shouldn’t be ignored when discussing balance. Golem dps charts ignore everything except theoretical dps under conditions even more restricted than the dps-focused raid mode. Those charts should be wholly ignored in balance passes because of the limited scope.

    If I had to choose a single game mode to balance from, it’d be WvW. Gameplay is active and all aspects of builds are important and you can see a range of performance for comps running from solo to massive zergs. Start tweaking PvE to more closely resemble that dynamic and you get a much more complete experience.

  • Aww I really miss my protect GW1 monk :(. I was over the moon when I saw the Scourge idea... But After playing with him it is.... Caca 💩

    In my opinon I don't think so the class has a problem is the whole game design and philosophy behind.

    The original idea (very bad idea) GW2= full dps clases (PVE) = piňata bosses = avoid red areas. After that they saw a lot of people like play with another roles and the idea of all dps avoid red area was and is a caos then, they have tried to add a very soft healers and tanks in PVE.

    A now the problem is there is the option to be tank or healer in PVE but the game has been not designed for that. Also with this soft trinity you cannot really shine in one role.

    And it is my sad opinion.

    If you want to play as support Healer or tank in PVE go to play World of Warcraft or sit down in your chair and wait for gw3 and maybe it will be more similar than GW1 that this DPS Wars.

    Gw2 has a good potential bad a very bad caos development. Also the Devs don't help.. With no really feedback or take any consideration about their community. ArenaNet used to be cool before 2013

  • Lexan.5930Lexan.5930 Member ✭✭✭

    @TheLastNobody.8319 said:
    Hell, give us a trait that makes it whenever we apply barrier, we apply protection.

    A trait that turns barrier into a delayed heal (when barrier starts to degen, people are healed based on the degenerated amount).

    A trait that makes it so the longer you stand in a shade, you gain a stacking buff of increased damage or reduced damage taken.

    Make our increased expertise and concentration apply to others who are affected by our barriers or/and stand in our shades.

    I’m just spit balling really but hey, better than nothing.

    made a post all about the protection.

    Would love a trait that makes it so that 5% of the barrier you put out becomes healing when it comes off

  • Kiroshima.8497Kiroshima.8497 Member ✭✭✭

    1st off, we need to make the Grace of the Land buff a generic one applied by the trait. Then we can give this buff to other classes, such as Scourge.

    My tweaks would be as follows:

    Introduce a Barrier Grandmaster, (move the corrupt boon steal to the corrupt life force trait), it would be something like:
    "Barriers you apply pulse Grace of the Land, 1 stack per second."

    To fit this new grandmaster, combine Feed from Corruption (boon steal on corrupt) with Nourishing Rot (life force on corrupt).

    Then change Abrasive Grit to "Grant barrier whenever you remove or convert a condition from allies or yourself."

    Also, as a slight change to Blood Magic, alter Unholy Sanctuary to this:
    "Transfer conditions from allies to yourself when you enter shroud and every couple of seconds (2) while in shroud. Anytime you remove or convert conditions on allies, gain life force. (1%)"

    Reasoning: Scourge needs options outside of Curses/Soul Reaping. Some combos with these changes could involve Plague Signet to automatically grant barrier to allies (double if traited), and then barrier yourself when you send them to an opponent (since it removes them from you). Well of Power becomes more useful, as it can become a pulsing barrier field if enemies are applying conditions while you or allies stand in it. For Death Magic, Necromantic Corruption can grant you a barrier whenever it removes a condition on you and puts it on a minion, and then the minion gains a barrier whenever it removes it from itself and puts it on an opponent. Shrouded Removal can be a pulsing barrier boost for yourself when you active Desert Shroud.

    And that's just a few interesting things we can do with these kinds of trait changes.

  • Sarrs.4831Sarrs.4831 Member ✭✭✭

    I really like the breakdown between Scourge and other classes.

    To be entirely honest I don't think the issue is the Scourge (though the clunky mightgranting between Torch 5 and BiP is an issue). I think it hurts much more that the Warrior support package does so much, and the Druid package is great as well.

    EA+Banners? Nobody can compete with that. 320 Power for the party that can't be given in any other way.
    Spotters+GotL? Same deal.

    How are Scourge or any other healer or any other mightstacker supposed to compete? Actually useful classbuffs & proven effectiveness v Vampiric Aura and unproven effectiveness?

  • I think Scourge needs a trait that causes Allies in the radius of Manifest Sand Shade to inflict Torment on their next attack.

  • Increase healing power coefficient on barrier and increase barrier decay time, increase might given on barrier. Lets go full support, its an easy fix.

  • Knox.8962Knox.8962 Member ✭✭✭

    @Maunzi.3764 said:
    You are utterly clueless. It IS about replacing a spec, because groups have a limited size. You cannot bring six people to a fractal, and you cannot bring 11 people to a raid.

    IF you replace one of the DPS roles with a scourge, you gain nothing: Might is covered, condi cleanse is covered, and chrono has abilities that do what barrier does, just better. This means the only possible place for a scourge is as a replacement for either druid, cPS, or Chrono.

    And as I've demonstrated, it fails at replacing all of them. it's a worse choice.

    You are of course fine to do a raid group with four bear bows, a scourge, a power reaper, and four celestial revenants. And while you're still trying to get past the first phase of VG, other groups are already done with wing 2 and moving to wing 3.

    Just gonna throw this qT boss kill out there. They seem to have managed to use 1 chrono, 1 Soulbeast, and 3 scourges to cover a subsquad with sufficient might and healing. You should probably explain to them that such a comp cannot work. They clearly didn't get the memo.

  • Sephylon.4938Sephylon.4938 Member ✭✭✭✭

    That video was published on Oct 16, the day before the bug fixes. Scourges were stacking more than the intended amounts of conditions at that point.

    I am a giant tomato filled with love. I have come to sell you a house made out of pancakes.

  • squallaus.8321squallaus.8321 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 19, 2017

    If u really want to make scourge support, barrier decay rate should be inversely proportional to boon duration.
    How can barriers be useful when they decay after 1 second when aegis that you typically get from gaurdians last for 5s or more without having any boon duration?
    Doesn't make sense does it anet?

    Anet, if u dont want your developers spending alot of time playing the actual game, then get respected players from the community for the different areas of the game to give u feedback. Atm the decisions made by the balancing team has been pretty farcical.

  • Knox.8962Knox.8962 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sephylon.4938 said:
    That video was published on Oct 16, the day before the bug fixes. Scourges were stacking more than the intended amounts of conditions at that point.

    Which would absolutely reduce the DAMAGE that they do, but shouldn't impact the ability to stack might or heal, which is what this thread was ostensibly about.

  • Sephylon.4938Sephylon.4938 Member ✭✭✭✭

    But those might stacks came with competitive damage. We lost the competitive damage with the bug fix. Also, outside of transfusion, or taking well of blood, scourges can't really heal allies. There's also using staff 2 for regen, but then you'd really be cutting in to your personal dps and competing with druids and chronos for that. And the less said about healing power scaling on barriers the better.

    I am a giant tomato filled with love. I have come to sell you a house made out of pancakes.

  • Knox.8962Knox.8962 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 19, 2017

    If you think damage is low, make a thread about low DPS, or better yet, post in one of the 20 other threads about low DPS. Don't just straw man "not enough support" to be useful in a raid as a proxy for poor damage.

    The spec clearly has a lot of baked in support. Things like "oh, I have a scourge helping with might, I can run zerker runes instead of aristocracy runes" or "I would normally use a magi druid on matthias, but since I have a scourge here, I should be safe using condi druid" are almost certainly going to happen because the support is there.

    The few times I've been in a group with a "full heal" necro, they have mitigated with barrier far more than the magi druid has healed. (Comparing absorbed damage to damage taken via logs).

  • i had a thought about how i would like to improve the necro's support.... (Raid perspective)
    I do agree with some of the suggestions about having barriers affected by concentration, that makes you sacrifice damage for support. and that's a good thing imo.
    however i do not agree with adding another unique buff, that will only add to the problem. and i think the game needs less of it.

    what i would suggest is to add a function to the barriers so that they allow unique buffs to be copied... (lets say with the GM trait)
    how it would work is:
    * when you give someone a barrier that has a unique buff (lets say Spotter). that spotter buff is then applied to all other allies also affected by your barrier. the buff lasts
    the duration of that barrier.

    it will not affect boons, so you still need classes for that job.
    but what that can do is to free up the group composition a little. you are still going to bring the WAY to OP druid/cPS/chrono. But it can free up some spots in the second group. if your chrono #2 is tiered of playing chrono because no one else bothers to gear one up, replace him with some guardian main who wants to try a quickness build. alacrity is provided by chrono #1, and copied to the second group via barrier...

    Pro's:

    • Free's up the composition from the mandatory 2x3 supp + 2 dps.
    • no need to add yet another unique buff to the game to be able to contribute to the group via support.
    • you still need to bring what ever class that can provide the unique buffs you want, so it wont throw anything else out the window

    Cons:

    • barriers need to last longer, ideally have it be affected by concentration so that you have to specc for this to work.
    • Up-time on these buffs copied by barrier may not be as good as in group #1, maybe that is the compensation for bringing more dps specs?
    • your noob friend that got carried by Mesmer distorts will face tank every hit from the boss and loose all his barrier = no buffs.
    • that same friend decides to pick flowers on the other side of the arena. no barrier = no buffs.

    Maybe this this wont work in practice, instead have the buffs copied a set amount of seconds every tome you provide the barrier, but the copy functions the same way...
    this is just some thoughts i had about how you can support in a unique way, without adding more stupid unique buffs...

    i would like to hear you'r thoughts on this. to OP? to kitten?
    (keep the salt to a minimum plz, :))

  • maxwelgm.4315maxwelgm.4315 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm not sure this discussion is going to be profitable. As one of the people above said, Scourge does have support, plenty of it in fact, so much that you can mitigate damage so fast in Fractals so as to not require a Tempest healer in CMs (your group still can't sit on damage of course). Problem is, this is defensive support, and defensive support in the form of barrier is very underwhelming in GW2 PvE (it was very useful back in GW1 but certainly not here).

    Whenever you think of having more HP, consider that HP is hardly the problem in any form of boss or enemy whatsoever. The problem is always being able to attack through a certain mechanic that knocks you down, or blinds you, or lifts you up, or tick so fast that barrier wouldn't matter anyway. Unless Anet develops a raid, fractal or bounty that specifically requires the barrier, then just about any other defensive support skill such as Distortion, is better than putting barriers up. Having stability + being healed is better than having a barrier because you can keep attacking. Having a reflect up and healing is better than having a barrier because you know the healing can keep up longer and so you can keep up attacking. Even being overhealed by a druid is better than having a barrier because you know you'll be healed faster than a centaur runs as long as you can dodge key attacks. As long as Scourge is only barrier-based and has no offensive support or more damage, this is not going anywhere. And as others believe, the problem with Necro damage lies in core necro, not otherwise.

  • reikken.4961reikken.4961 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017

    eh, you only need 1 warrior in a group. Banners affect 10 people. 1 warrior gives might to 5 people and can take both banners, and a scourge can give might to the other 5. Scourge replacing a warrior isn't fighting against banners, it's fighting against EA and the warrior's missing utility skill.

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017

    @Maunzi.3764 said:

    1. Barrier gets an increased duration if you attribute for it. Concentration would be a good fit, as would vitality
    2. New Trait: Barriers apply a damage buff while they last to anyone they are applied to [PVE Only]
    3. New Trait in a core necro line: Skills with boon corruption do not corrupt boons any longer. Instead, they apply a [take X% more damage] debuff for 10 seconds. [THIS WOULD BE A CORE NECRO BUFF]

    The last one in particular is a nice idea. Here are some possibilities for discussion starters based on your suggestions:

    NAME1
    Recharge: 1s

    • When you grant barrier to an ally, you also grant NAME1 (effect stacks up to 5 times).
    • NAME1 (8s): +60 Power, +60,Condition Damage

    NAME2

    • Corrupting a boon on a foe inflicts damage. If you would corrupt a boon on a foe that has no boons to corrupt, you instead inflict NAME2 (effect stacks up to 10 times).
    • Boon Corrupt Damage: (1.5)
    • NAME2 (10s) 1% Incoming Damage, 1% Incoming Condition Damage
      PvP version of the boon corrupt damage has a modifier of (0.3) and an internal cool down per target of 1s.

    Sand Savant

    • In addition to this trait's current effects, Shade skills no longer trigger a PBAoE effect at the user's location (only the Sand Shade itself will apply Shade skill effects) and the total affected target count for the Greater Shade will be raised from 5 to 10. Now also grants +10% outgoing damage to allies within a Sand Shade's AoE (similar to how banners apply their bonuses).
  • Swiftwynd.1685Swiftwynd.1685 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017

    @Axl.8924 said:
    Interesting.

    So do you guys think then that a support scourge necro is viable as a support raid team? what about for high level fractals?

    It works in Raids, its one of my favorite builds.

    The group "anchoring" it provides on the harder fights, like Mathias and Sloth, is fantastic because:

    • Constant heal over time, wide area (600 radius)
    • 25 Might Stacking from the Healer Role
    • Long Lasting Regenerations from staff 2 (If Minstrels full build with Leadership)
    • 5-target AoE revive - pull in to get people instantly back into the fight if downed.
    • Over-healing of barrier can soften the blow of attacks more frequently than a Chrono can Distort, so they complement each other. You can perma maintain full barrier on group if you have Alacrity up time. You stagger it with Heal - F1 as it begins to Decay, F3 as it begins to Decay, F1, F3, and then another F1 eventually or the Heal is back up. By staggering it like this, you give yourself a LARGE window of "well i know the BIG HIT is coming soon im going to prep for it.)
    • Best group condition cleansing in the game. Keeping Chill and Poison off people in Mathias is a very large indirect damage contribution, and saving lives on a missed Distortion during Sloth's shake is fabulous. Can also convert the Fear into Stability.

    Less useful, but the in combat Sand Swell Portal is actually SUPER useful for coordinated groups on Mathias, getting people back from dropping off the corruption at the well is a huge damage boost AND makes them less likely to get downed by ranged, and keeps mathias more stationary in the middle as he likes to run after the furthest person.

    It also brings great break bar potential with:

    F4 Fear
    Staff 5 Fear
    Warhorn 4
    Flesh Golem Elite's charge.

  • Swiftwynd.1685Swiftwynd.1685 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017

    Duplicate post meh.

  • Let's be honest: necro support is nonsense, the whole class is utterly selfish. We want to deal dmg!

  • @Ashyri.5426 said:
    Let's be honest: necro support is nonsense, the whole class is utterly selfish. We want to deal dmg!

    I want to be necro support to dmg there a lot of classes and also the rapper

  • If they made vampiric presence 10x stronger necro support would be useful. Barriers could prevent damage and VP could heal it back(along with transfusion) while boosting the damage of the team.

  • support hum? With all those amount of condi? Give scourge more acces to barrier at last for calling him a support. Vampiric presence would need a buff too if we speak about support.

  • Vrita.7846Vrita.7846 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't get why people aren't fighting for both a support build and a dps build. Are we just going to accept what a dev said about Scourge being "heavy support" so therefore we can't have competitive dps with other dps classes? Look at ele for example, they can play Tempest as a dps spec or a support spec depending on the gear and traits they take. Why can't Scourge be the same way? Why does it HAVE to be a support spec? Scourge has traits for dps and traits for a support role. If you take the dps traits, you're not as supportive to your group, if you take the support traits, you hit way less dmg. To be a proper support, you would need to wear the right gear, in the case of Scourge you would need lots of healing power to stack a lot of barrier which makes you deal less dmg. I don't understand why we're being pushed into a support role that will never be meta when we have the ridiculously broken class known as Chronomancer already. Barrier is irrelevant when a Chrono can distort big attacks, doing a whopping 0 dmg to the entire sub-squad. If people want Scourge to have a support role than fine, but we need a competitive dps option to go with it if we don't want to play as a support.

  • Galmac.4680Galmac.4680 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 20, 2017

    What support??? I don't get it. Eles can do have REAL heavy support AND damage, and necros can add a little barrier for the time of a blink. Why does everyone come then with "but if we have a group of necros, that stacks" and such kitten. Eles in groups make more damage and a kittenload of more boons/support! Or take spellbreakers, a group of them will melt you, too. Why has just the necro to accept that poor damage?? I won't accept that as fate.

    Praise Joko!

  • @Vrita.7846 said:
    I don't get why people aren't fighting for both a support build and a dps build. Are we just going to accept what a dev said about Scourge being "heavy support" so therefore we can't have competitive dps with other dps classes? Look at ele for example, they can play Tempest as a dps spec or a support spec depending on the gear and traits they take. Why can't Scourge be the same way? Why does it HAVE to be a support spec? Scourge has traits for dps and traits for a support role. If you take the dps traits, you're not as supportive to your group, if you take the support traits, you hit way less dmg. To be a proper support, you would need to wear the right gear, in the case of Scourge you would need lots of healing power to stack a lot of barrier which makes you deal less dmg. I don't understand why we're being pushed into a support role that will never be meta when we have the ridiculously broken class known as Chronomancer already. Barrier is irrelevant when a Chrono can distort big attacks, doing a whopping 0 dmg to the entire sub-squad. If people want Scourge to have a support role than fine, but we need a competitive dps option to go with it if we don't want to play as a support.

    Well, the devs are under the impression it is a strong support spec, so it would be nice if that were actually the case.
    Given Scourge would require some skill/trait redesigns to be a good support spec (Serpent Siphon tops the list for "skills that need a redesign," since it doesn't have a real use), most people are hinging their hopes on DPS being competitive. Then, at least, Scourge would be wanted for Slothasaur and Matthias as what little support they do have as a DPS spec actually has a use there.

    But, since devs have basically told us that we won't be getting high DPS back, we should be focusing our efforts more on getting the support side to actually be worth the slot.

    Plague Signet is the only skill in the game that is worse when traited.

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.