Suggestions to the Balance Team towards the PVE — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Suggestions to the Balance Team towards the PVE

Draco.9480Draco.9480 Member ✭✭✭
edited October 24, 2017 in Fractals, Dungeons, and Raids

Before I start, I just want to point out that I don't want to hear any kitbag answers like "don't like the game? don't play!" or "form your own group and play what you want" or "just give up on useless class/build and move on" or "it's not wow" or "compain cuz can't play your favorite" etc. It's not because I want necro to be good but EVERYONE to be good on POWER and CONDI. Also have few optiosn for TANKs and HEALERS.

Now for the topic!
I like the hardcore pve content but for some reason I can't do it with my favorite class for 5 years. I could play it only when it was "unintended".
Now look at the qT benchmark https://qtfy.eu/guildwars/benchmarks-path-of-fire/
and look at the WoW 7.3 benchmark https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#aggregate=amount
I ask myself. how come ALL the DPS SPECS in WOW are good more or less, depends what boss and the skill of the player and in GW2 it's not.
First of all PvE and PVP/WVW should be separated from each other in order to actually balance the game in all modes.

  • Boons and Modified Buffs should be for 10 people in PvE!
  • Since HoT and PoF we have too much of a Power Creep: Chrono, Berserker Phalanx Strength and Condition Druid are like must in all groups all the time maybe for some exceptions for magi druids for some healing but it leads to 3 total support with one of 'em to lead a damage close to an actual DPS build (Condition Berserker Phalanx Strength).
    Those have too much unique buffs that raids or fracs can't be done in an efficient and fun way which eats the fun later if used 'em all the time.
    Chrono provides quickness and alacrity all the time and protects the group with his distortions to continue DPSing.
    Warriors grants over 2000 stats: 750 power, and 750 condition damage with 25 stacks of might. EA grants 150 Power, Banners grant 170 of the 4 main offensive stats. It also leads to 29-30k damage at golem.
    Druid grants: Frost Spirit 70% chance to deal 10%+ damage, GoE 10% damage for 6s a cd of 15s, Sun Spirit also a chance to inflict burning, Spotter 150 Precision, GotL grants 10% damage and condition damage and it also heals. 2 more spots left for the 2 DPS which most cases are Weaver. Weaver does a 47k dps on golem while necro doesn't exist in the benchmark anymore, not in power, not in condition, not in support and not in any of the 3 specs (base, reaper, scourge). What's going on? Anet said scourge are going to be support but they don't support anything. all they did is give some awkward barriers for 2 seconds that no one cares that was stolen from WoW which like at least 5 classes in WoW can grant bubbles and last like way way longer.

Too many unique modified buffs that can't be replaced by others.
So why not fix the build system a bit. My solution is to have those Unique buffs if the same stat buffs so can't be stacked and only have 1 at the time while in combat.
(Same stat buff can't be stacked in order to balance the team so condi team rely on 150 condi, precision buffs and power builds rely on 150 power, ferocity, precision buffs).

  • Warrior Power, Guardian Power and Elementalist to grant 150 Power modified buff.
  • Revenant and Thief to grant 150 Ferocity modified buff.
  • Engineer and Necromancer to grant 150 Condition Damage modified buff.
  • Ranger and Mesmer to grant 150 Precision modified buff.
  • Guardian Tank, Warrior Tank and Revenant Tank to grant 150 Toughness.

Banners of warrior should be replaceable with at least 2 classes like Engineer turrets that do the same and Also aren't stacked with the Banners but to replace, even if ya see the buff going on then not add the effective if turret and banner at the same time. To change guardians Spirit Weapons since no one uses 'em to Spirit Sword which grants 170 prec/fero and spirit Axe to grant 170 condi damage/power, spirit shield to give toughness/whatever. Also necro can have something like Totems or something that grants the same thing.
Ele to have elementals to replace the spirits of rangers.

Also to remove GoE and make it do something else and same for the GotL since druid is the only good healer because of that buff that empowers and heals at the same time. It leads to others to be irrelevant. Make few healer specs that are useful in their own way like druid heals if people are near the target. Necro to change his skills to a healing weapon since his skills on staff look horrible and replace it to green dark beam that steals life from enemies and give it to allies that close to the necro instead close to the enemy!

To start actually balancing the damage between the others. I still think power builds should always have the handicap because of enemy's toughness, however, there aren't any much of options besides weaver. So sometimes ya use DH and Holosmith but still they can't be as effective as a weaver. Most hc people they use weavers to make a smooth and efficient experience.
Why there're no Power Necros, Power Druid/Ranger/Soulbeast, Power Revenant, Power Warrior, Power Thief, Power Mesmer That can actually be close to a Weaver or be as strong as Tempest? Like 30k necro condi and 25k necro power compared to 38k weaver condi and 47k weaver power. what in the world the devs were thinking about implementing something without checking all the possibilities. Do they just Throw numbers and make flashy skills in the air and hope people won't break the game and make the game that leads to toxicity and not allowing players to enjoy their favorite class cuz their class is ineffective at all?
Those specs aren't going to be used in any hardcore content in a video to showcase their competitive side and I'm not talking about "joke" videos like 10 thieves p/p at Sabetha or something. I'm talking about serious competitive clears, videos, runs, and tournaments.
I can understand a difference of From Top to Bottom in benchmark about 4-5k difference Since 1 is harder and will fail more compared to the easy one that does like but can do more in harder bosses.
All Classes Should have the option to be good in Power and Condition Damage more or less equally with their own unique rotation like in WoW. All Classes have like between 1 to 3 Specs of DPS and mostly all are good. So maybe 2-1 dps specs are ineffective in some class but he has the 3rd spec to be strong and competitive with others like rogues or hunters for example.
they have at least like 5 classes that can heal and at least 5 that can tank, almost half and half.
So in GW2 should be like at least all the heavy classes to be able to tank and grant buffs, while armor of clothes to actually matter in the game way more.
Healers should be at least Guardian, Druid, Elementalist, Engineer, Necro.
Might share should be to at least 1000 radius and give it to other classes like Elementalist, Guardian (remove the ICD of 1 second), Necro (since he mights himself in power builds), Engineer and Warrior.
Revenant and Chrono should grant alacrity equally and not too much.
Others should grant good quickness uptime like chrono.

Ya'll see a lot of different classes and builds in a raid group and many compositions with a healthy variation and a spot for everyone.
If the player fails it means he fails with his class/rotation/mechanics/etc which is a different story. But in hardcore content every class should be available for something he can do. Pretty sure thief isn't suited for healer/tank or any kind of that support. Just to be DPS either power or condition with a unique modified buff that isn't stackable with other unique modified buffs like same 150 fero so shoulsn't be 300 for example.

So the least for each class and roles I suggest :
Elementalist - Power, Condi, Heal.
Mesmer - Power, Condi, Tank.
Necromancer - Power, Condi, Heal.
Ranger - Power, Condi, Heal.
Thief - Power, Condi.
Engineer - Power, Condi, Heal, Tank.
Guardian - Power, Condi, Heal, Tank.
Warrior - Power, Condi, Tank.
Revenant - Power, Condi, Tank.

About bosses in Raids and Fractals:
All fractals can be done without a healer at all. just take 3 support and 2 dps which is really unhealthy. Fractals should have aggro system as well for the tank to actually take the mobs and boss attention and save the group from huge damage. To have a healer or support that provides enough heals for the tank and the group. The other 3 To be DPS. 5 people to have 1 to grant 150 precision, 150 power, 150 fero and 1 guy to grant 150 condi if the group uses condi builds in the fractal. 1 of the DPS or Support or Heal to grant what's called the Banners or the replaceable banners such as totems or turrets. To evolve the bosses to do damage that actually can't be distorted nor dodged so it'll actually demand a healer in hard fractals.

Same for raids. You can do bosses without any healer at all, for example: Gorseval, Mursaat Overseer, Vale Guardian, Xera, Keep Construct.
People shouldn't pass raids if they don't invest time in their build/class or don't give a kitten. To invest more mechanics to the bosses.
have 2 chronos, 2 warriors, 2 druids and 4 dps which mostly of the dpsers are just weavers looks really unhealthy.
Bosses should have the requirement of 1 or 2 tanks., at least 1-2 healers, and rest DPS regardless of class but should be considered about boss mechanics and its value like armor or phases and certain more mechanics to decide which type of damage dealers ya want such as condition damage or power damage.
All tanks should have taunt skills to switch between the tanks if need cuz of the special invulnerability stacks the boss applies for each special hit of his.
Or like 2 bosses at the same time that requires 2 tanks. Or Boss that spawns adds all the time that actually deal damage and needed to be cleaved and damage asap if not then will empower the boss or wipe the group or something.
To make raid bosses that have mechanics that will make people to get hang of it and pass it like after few weeks. NOT like on the first day like the HoT Raids!

<13

Comments

  • good thinking draco

  • deltaconnected.4058deltaconnected.4058 Member ✭✭
    edited October 22, 2017

    1) Why base balance decisions on comparing boss aggregate to training golem maximum?
    2) Didn't Legion remove unique buffs instead of adding more of them?

    I'm not suggesting the current buffing trio of chrono+warrior+druid occupying 6/10 slots in optimal comps is a good thing, and I understand you want necro to be considered a candidate for optimal in PvE, but I don't think more bad decisions are going to correct previous bad decisions.

  • Walhalla.5473Walhalla.5473 Member ✭✭✭

    Good points. But I would say. Instead of giving different classes different modifier buffs, I would suggest to merge them and make it that they don't stack with each other. We need less unique buffs, not more. So Spotter, EA, PPD should do the same. Give out Condi and Power damage buffs, like what Banner of Strenght is doin but passive and less powerful. For balance reasons we could make the individual numbers smaller. We could do the same for Spirits and Banners ( well they need to be reworked for this so they are basically doing the same ), buffing 10 people and not stacking of each other ( why are the spirits still buffing only 5 people ? )

    Also Anet should pump out Balance Updates for PvE more often. Right now, if they mess up one class in one of the big balance patches then that class can say good bye for 3 to 4 months, and even then its just a chance that Anet will do something to revert the changes, so you busted class stays on life support for quite a long time. They should hire a team for this if needed. And PvE balance should be done with high end PvE in mind.

    @ Draco: Some changes feel like there was no thought put into them but other changes are more like reactions from situations half a year ago, which then had changed ( remember nerfing Condi Ranger while buffing condi thief even if ranger did less damage? ) So I would say its combination about not giving two kitten and being understaffed.

  • Draco.9480Draco.9480 Member ✭✭✭

    @Walhalla.5473 said:
    Good points. But I would say. Instead of giving different classes different modifier buffs, I would suggest to merge them and make it that they don't stack with each other. We need less unique buffs, not more. So Spotter, EA, PPD should do the same. Give out Condi and Power damage buffs, like what Banner of Strenght is doin but passive and less powerful. For balance reasons we could make the individual numbers smaller. We could do the same for Spirits and Banners ( well they need to be reworked for this so they are basically doing the same ), buffing 10 people and not stacking of each other ( why are the spirits still buffing only 5 people ? )

    Also Anet should pump out Balance Updates for PvE more often. Right now, if they mess up one class in one of the big balance patches then that class can say good bye for 3 to 4 months, and even then its just a chance that Anet will do something to revert the changes, so you busted class stays on life support for quite a long time. They should hire a team for this if needed. And PvE balance should be done with high end PvE in mind.

    @ Draco: Some changes feel like there was no thought put into them but other changes are more like reactions from situations half a year ago, which then had changed ( remember nerfing Condi Ranger while buffing condi thief even if ranger did less damage? ) So I would say its combination about not giving two kitten and being understaffed.

    I want same 150 precision from different class shouldn't stack. only one 150 precision buff can be on while use other buff like ea from warr for example to give 150 power.

  • zoomborg.9462zoomborg.9462 Member ✭✭✭

    If i saw this post b4 the bug fixes to scourge i would upvote. Posting this right after scourge got nerfed screams of hypocrisy, what the OP wants is scourge to get buffed and be competitive which will happen according to Anet. But srsly asking the whole meta to change so people who wanna play necro can have their day is just nonsense. The same could be said for every other spec that is not popular in PvE and the only solution would be to homogenize every single class in the game crashing their main characteristics and making them basically the same class with different names. Necro has always shined better in WvW/PvP because of the condi burst, tankability and boon corruption. That was the nature of the very class from the very beginning of core necro to reaper to scourge.
    Every single decent player i know always changes classes for different encounters and that includes necro, doesnt just stick to one spec and call it a day. I'd also like to play condi mirage everywhere but it is definitely counter productive for the rest of the group for either fractals or raids. U just deal with it and move on.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Are you seriously comparing the balance of an expansion which is out for over 1 year (August 30th, 2016. Legion release), with one that is out for 4 weeks (Sept. 22nd, 2017).

    Wow, just wow. That's bias right there.

    How about you pull some benchmarks from WoW 4 weeks post launch of Legion as comparison?

    That's not even getting into all the issues of how streamlined and normalised all of WoWs classes are by now as well as itemisation, etc. etc.

  • Draco.9480Draco.9480 Member ✭✭✭

    @zoomborg.9462 said:
    If i saw this post b4 the bug fixes to scourge i would upvote. Posting this right after scourge got nerfed screams of hypocrisy, what the OP wants is scourge to get buffed and be competitive which will happen according to Anet. But srsly asking the whole meta to change so people who wanna play necro can have their day is just nonsense. The same could be said for every other spec that is not popular in PvE and the only solution would be to homogenize every single class in the game crashing their main characteristics and making them basically the same class with different names. Necro has always shined better in WvW/PvP because of the condi burst, tankability and boon corruption. That was the nature of the very class from the very beginning of core necro to reaper to scourge.
    Every single decent player i know always changes classes for different encounters and that includes necro, doesnt just stick to one spec and call it a day. I'd also like to play condi mirage everywhere but it is definitely counter productive for the rest of the group for either fractals or raids. U just deal with it and move on.

    dude, i gave an example about necro, it's not just about necro. i listed other specs. and i was talking about pve only but why gw2 fanboys will care as long as they can do high dps on weaver blabla. why don't ya want to play condi mirage on condi favor bosses? just move on? give up? why the weak mentality for not standing for what ya desire. just give anet to do what they want? no wonder the community is the way it's. ya were just mad that scourge was top before with some bug but now happy.
    ya didn't get the point of it. i wanted all the 18 options of dps to be more or less balanced and be chosen via the mechanics of the boss. also to have more healing options and tank options.

  • Draco.9480Draco.9480 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Are you seriously comparing the balance of an expansion which is out for over 1 year (August 30th, 2016. Legion release), with one that is out for 4 weeks (Sept. 22nd, 2017).

    Wow, just wow. That's bias right there.

    How about you pull some benchmarks from WoW 4 weeks post launch of Legion as comparison?

    That's not even getting into all the issues of how streamlined and normalised all of WoWs classes are by now as well as itemisation, etc. etc.

    still each 1 day expansion in wow was more balanced than gw2 way way more. more options were for dps and still 4 tanks were good and same for healers like 5 option for healers. HoT was like 2 years and didn't manage to balance the necro or other specs which were useless. legion had balance on the first day than HoT after 2 years and GW2 core of 3 years all together.

  • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    All unique buffs/effects should affect 10 players in instanced PvE. I get why it would be a bad idea for general PvE, with the zergs at world bosses. But it needs to happen in raids. We should never have got to a place where we need to double up on our buffers to spread the buffs to the entire raid squad. That should be the top priority. Building the tech to allow these skills to affect 10 people only in instanced PvE, where you know the number of people will be extremely limited.

    After that, the unique trait buffs need to be standardized. Strength in Numbers, Pinpoint Distribution, Spotter, and Empower allies all give 150 stats, assassins presence gives 225. It should be brought down to 150 to match the others (and for consistency Strength in numbers should be updated to a 9 second effect to match the others).

    Find a way to give GotL to other elite specs outside of Druid. Alacrity was deemed too powerful to be a unique buff, and GotL is a flat 10% damage/condition damage increase. That is also too powerful to be 100% unique to druid, so share it around. Druid should keep its spot as the spec with the easiest way to apply permanent GotL (or even the only spec that is capable of applying permanent GotL), but another spec needs access to it.

    This isn't "balancing" in the traditional spec, but it would open up more spots in raid groups without meaning you end up with some people who don't have all of the unique buffs on them. And with more spots available for DPS roles, it makes it even easier to take a not so great DPS build, if your group is ok with it, since you have more DPS spots to compensate for it.

    Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Are you seriously comparing the balance of an expansion which is out for over 1 year (August 30th, 2016. Legion release), with one that is out for 4 weeks (Sept. 22nd, 2017).

    Wow, just wow. That's bias right there.

    How about you pull some benchmarks from WoW 4 weeks post launch of Legion as comparison?

    That's not even getting into all the issues of how streamlined and normalised all of WoWs classes are by now as well as itemisation, etc. etc.

    still each 1 day expansion in wow was more balanced than gw2 way way more. more options were for dps and still 4 tanks were good and same for healers like 5 option for healers. HoT was like 2 years and didn't manage to balance the necro or other specs which were useless. legion had balance on the first day than HoT after 2 years and GW2 core of 3 years all together.

    You are so biased, it's insulting to WoW players (and uninformed at that, which is even worse).

    How balanced was warrior tank at release of Legion? Compared to Death Knight?

    How balanced is resto druid compared to other healers?

    I could go on but honestly, why bother. You have already shown you have 0 clue of WoW meta and how it works.

    Blizzard does a balance roulet which let's every class be on top for a while. WoW is nothing but unbalanced, and that's by design.

  • Draco.9480Draco.9480 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    If you remove grace of the land from druids, they'll be a flat out inferior version of heal ele and revenant.

    Druid heals are proximity based, they suck on moving or spread out targets, and they're locked behind a transformation which requires build up of resources unlike an ele who just farts out healing and condi clear right and left with way longer ranges of effectiveness.

    Just play 100cm and notice the effectiveness of a water ele and druid in healing. People just take the druid for the offensive buffs. There's a reason Irenio had to give druid grace of the land. Otherwise people were just going to run tempests with heal shouts and blast water fields.

    Druid is a spec with zero options other than healing. Tempest can build for both DPS and healing.

    Unless you expand druid to also be a spec that can specialize in DPS, then there's no reason why druid shouldn't be king of support.

    Same goes for mesmer. You make chrono interchangeable, and then mesmer disappears from the meta as mesmer has no competitive DPS specs whatsoever, and core mesmer has zero utility worth a kitten outside portal if they're not chrono spec. At the same time, chrono can't build for DPS either, the DPS of the spec is abysmal.

    I can't believe people want more of this homogenization of buffs.

    Guild Wars 1 worked in a strict role system. Nobody could interrupt like mesmers. Nobody could quite heal like a monk. Ritualist and Paragon support were exclusive in their own supportive abilities.

    You want to make GW2 where everybody has access to consolidated buffs.

    That's exactly what has led to the supremacy of some DPS classes.

    When all classes have access to the same conditions and boons, people just bring the class that's most efficient at putting out those consolidated boons and conditions. Phalanx Strength Warrior is an example of that. Same goes for protection and stability. Why bring anything but a guardian for those when the guardian is the best at applying those to a group? That's why guardians dominate in WvW.

    Removing uniqueness from the classes just makes it so you optimize which to bring down to who can stack best.

    Pinpoint distribution is the best thing that could have happened to engineer. Yet if you make that a shared aura between engineer and necro, guess what. People will just bring whichever of the two does the better DPS.

    well. in wow paladin can be tank, healer, dps. why bring anything else if he can do everything? just bring 10 paladins! but no one does it cuz others also have unique buffs like dk, hunters, shaman etc etc. there's no efficient cuz each class plays its own style of rotation. some are more sustain and some are more bursty which each boss has it's shining spots.

  • Draco.9480Draco.9480 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2017

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Are you seriously comparing the balance of an expansion which is out for over 1 year (August 30th, 2016. Legion release), with one that is out for 4 weeks (Sept. 22nd, 2017).

    Wow, just wow. That's bias right there.

    How about you pull some benchmarks from WoW 4 weeks post launch of Legion as comparison?

    That's not even getting into all the issues of how streamlined and normalised all of WoWs classes are by now as well as itemisation, etc. etc.

    still each 1 day expansion in wow was more balanced than gw2 way way more. more options were for dps and still 4 tanks were good and same for healers like 5 option for healers. HoT was like 2 years and didn't manage to balance the necro or other specs which were useless. legion had balance on the first day than HoT after 2 years and GW2 core of 3 years all together.

    You are so biased, it's insulting to WoW players (and uninformed at that, which is even worse).

    How balanced was warrior tank at release of Legion? Compared to Death Knight?

    How balanced is resto druid compared to other healers?

    I could go on but honestly, why bother. You have already shown you have 0 clue of WoW meta and how it works.

    Blizzard does a balance roulet which let's every class be on top for a while. WoW is nothing but unbalanced, and that's by design.

    so 2 years of HoT was more balanced than 1 day of legion or cataclysm right????????
    also you throw red hairings. i compare about wow balance in general compared gw2 in all those years in general about class options. in wow ya could play all classes as dps and here ya can't. and i'm baised. keep saying it to yourself.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2017

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Are you seriously comparing the balance of an expansion which is out for over 1 year (August 30th, 2016. Legion release), with one that is out for 4 weeks (Sept. 22nd, 2017).

    Wow, just wow. That's bias right there.

    How about you pull some benchmarks from WoW 4 weeks post launch of Legion as comparison?

    That's not even getting into all the issues of how streamlined and normalised all of WoWs classes are by now as well as itemisation, etc. etc.

    still each 1 day expansion in wow was more balanced than gw2 way way more. more options were for dps and still 4 tanks were good and same for healers like 5 option for healers. HoT was like 2 years and didn't manage to balance the necro or other specs which were useless. legion had balance on the first day than HoT after 2 years and GW2 core of 3 years all together.

    You are so biased, it's insulting to WoW players (and uninformed at that, which is even worse).

    How balanced was warrior tank at release of Legion? Compared to Death Knight?

    How balanced is resto druid compared to other healers?

    I could go on but honestly, why bother. You have already shown you have 0 clue of WoW meta and how it works.

    Blizzard does a balance roulet which let's every class be on top for a while. WoW is nothing but unbalanced, and that's by design.

    so 2 years of HoT was more balanced than 1 day of legion or cataclysm right????????

    That's beside the point. The games are completely different. Blizzard gets to reinvent and remake their class balance and fix the issues they create with each expansion. They've also normalised and taken all uniquness out of their class system to streamline and provide content faster ever since WotlK. Also no, every single expansion there has huge outliers in balance, and that's with a team and financial means which are far beyond Arenanets.

    GW2 actually has unique classes with unique playstyles and buffs/mechanics and due to its not increasing level cap and gear cap is a way more difficult monster to balance.

    Those are the things you are leaving out in your rant which make a huge difference.

  • Draco.9480Draco.9480 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Are you seriously comparing the balance of an expansion which is out for over 1 year (August 30th, 2016. Legion release), with one that is out for 4 weeks (Sept. 22nd, 2017).

    Wow, just wow. That's bias right there.

    How about you pull some benchmarks from WoW 4 weeks post launch of Legion as comparison?

    That's not even getting into all the issues of how streamlined and normalised all of WoWs classes are by now as well as itemisation, etc. etc.

    still each 1 day expansion in wow was more balanced than gw2 way way more. more options were for dps and still 4 tanks were good and same for healers like 5 option for healers. HoT was like 2 years and didn't manage to balance the necro or other specs which were useless. legion had balance on the first day than HoT after 2 years and GW2 core of 3 years all together.

    You are so biased, it's insulting to WoW players (and uninformed at that, which is even worse).

    How balanced was warrior tank at release of Legion? Compared to Death Knight?

    How balanced is resto druid compared to other healers?

    I could go on but honestly, why bother. You have already shown you have 0 clue of WoW meta and how it works.

    Blizzard does a balance roulet which let's every class be on top for a while. WoW is nothing but unbalanced, and that's by design.

    so 2 years of HoT was more balanced than 1 day of legion or cataclysm right????????

    That's beside the point. The games are completely different. Blizzard gets to reinvent and remake their class balance and fix the issues they create with each expansion. They've also normalised and taken all uniquness out of their class system to streamline and provide content faster ever since WotlK. Also no, every single expansion there was huge outliers in balance, and that's with a team and financial means which are far beyond Arenanets.

    GW2 actually has unique classes with unique playstyles and buffs/mechanics and due to its not increasing level cap and gear cap is a way more difficult monster to balance.

    Those are the things you are leaving out in your rant which make a huge difference.

    it's easier to balance something that doesn't goes up with the level and stuck on barely any pve content compared to what blizzard does. look how much content blizzard releases compared to anet. look how many class. 12. all are more less playable in competitive, but in gw2 isn't not the case. can't be competitive with necro or power thief.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2017

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Are you seriously comparing the balance of an expansion which is out for over 1 year (August 30th, 2016. Legion release), with one that is out for 4 weeks (Sept. 22nd, 2017).

    Wow, just wow. That's bias right there.

    How about you pull some benchmarks from WoW 4 weeks post launch of Legion as comparison?

    That's not even getting into all the issues of how streamlined and normalised all of WoWs classes are by now as well as itemisation, etc. etc.

    still each 1 day expansion in wow was more balanced than gw2 way way more. more options were for dps and still 4 tanks were good and same for healers like 5 option for healers. HoT was like 2 years and didn't manage to balance the necro or other specs which were useless. legion had balance on the first day than HoT after 2 years and GW2 core of 3 years all together.

    You are so biased, it's insulting to WoW players (and uninformed at that, which is even worse).

    How balanced was warrior tank at release of Legion? Compared to Death Knight?

    How balanced is resto druid compared to other healers?

    I could go on but honestly, why bother. You have already shown you have 0 clue of WoW meta and how it works.

    Blizzard does a balance roulet which let's every class be on top for a while. WoW is nothing but unbalanced, and that's by design.

    so 2 years of HoT was more balanced than 1 day of legion or cataclysm right????????

    That's beside the point. The games are completely different. Blizzard gets to reinvent and remake their class balance and fix the issues they create with each expansion. They've also normalised and taken all uniquness out of their class system to streamline and provide content faster ever since WotlK. Also no, every single expansion there was huge outliers in balance, and that's with a team and financial means which are far beyond Arenanets.

    GW2 actually has unique classes with unique playstyles and buffs/mechanics and due to its not increasing level cap and gear cap is a way more difficult monster to balance.

    Those are the things you are leaving out in your rant which make a huge difference.

    it's easier to balance something that doesn't goes up with the level and stuck on barely any pve content compared to what blizzard does. look how much content blizzard releases compared to anet. look how many class. 12. all are more less playable in competitive, but in gw2 isn't not the case. can't be competitive with necro or power thief.

    Actually no, it's not. Horizontal progression is far more difficult than vertical (which again goes to show how little you actually understand about MMO balance). Vertical progression allows for mistakes because once the new level cap hits, you can start from scratch. Developing interesting and unique horizontal options next to each other is far more complex.

    Blizzard has:

    A.) far deeper Pockets and far more people working on WoW than Arenanet has on GW2
    B.) have 95% obsolete content which is streamlined and useless. Everything besides the newest expansion is useless endgame wise. Enemies of same level will have the same amount of hitpoints, damage, etc.
    C.) WoW works on the basis of repeatedly making gear obsolete and forcing people to regear within its item threadmill. It's far easier to create content this way

    You are correct on the more or less, most of the classes are less playable, especially in WoWs arena where metas exist and have existed. Same goes for WoW raids on mythic level. The classes and builds taken on that level are quite fixed.

    EDIT:
    D. WoWs classes are streamlined. There is literally not 1 buff or skill which is not available to multiple classes in order to balance them against each other. Copy pasting and removing uniqueness makes it far easier to balance as well

  • Rennie.6750Rennie.6750 Member ✭✭✭

    Except that wow does the exact opposite of what you suggest, and what you suggest would only make things worse for everyone. What the game needs is less unique buffs. Not more. Also, all specs of all class are good enough to kill a raid boss with a fair margin on the enrage timer. All of them. Including the weird ones, as long as the build makes sense. If you play with idiots who can't help but invite the class and not the player, it's not the devs fault.

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Are you seriously comparing the balance of an expansion which is out for over 1 year (August 30th, 2016. Legion release), with one that is out for 4 weeks (Sept. 22nd, 2017).

    Wow, just wow. That's bias right there.

    How about you pull some benchmarks from WoW 4 weeks post launch of Legion as comparison?

    That's not even getting into all the issues of how streamlined and normalised all of WoWs classes are by now as well as itemisation, etc. etc.

    still each 1 day expansion in wow was more balanced than gw2 way way more. more options were for dps and still 4 tanks were good and same for healers like 5 option for healers. HoT was like 2 years and didn't manage to balance the necro or other specs which were useless. legion had balance on the first day than HoT after 2 years and GW2 core of 3 years all together.

    You are so biased, it's insulting to WoW players (and uninformed at that, which is even worse).

    How balanced was warrior tank at release of Legion? Compared to Death Knight?

    How balanced is resto druid compared to other healers?

    I could go on but honestly, why bother. You have already shown you have 0 clue of WoW meta and how it works.

    Blizzard does a balance roulet which let's every class be on top for a while. WoW is nothing but unbalanced, and that's by design.

    so 2 years of HoT was more balanced than 1 day of legion or cataclysm right????????

    That's beside the point. The games are completely different. Blizzard gets to reinvent and remake their class balance and fix the issues they create with each expansion. They've also normalised and taken all uniquness out of their class system to streamline and provide content faster ever since WotlK. Also no, every single expansion there has huge outliers in balance, and that's with a team and financial means which are far beyond Arenanets.

    GW2 actually has unique classes with unique playstyles and buffs/mechanics and due to its not increasing level cap and gear cap is a way more difficult monster to balance.

    Those are the things you are leaving out in your rant which make a huge difference.

    I'm sorry, but that's beyond ignorant.

    WoW has more classes total with as much as 3 viable specs per class, which play completely differently from each spec. I can't believe you would make a statement like this.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2017

    I didnt know wow had the rights over barriers.

  • xDudisx.5914xDudisx.5914 Member ✭✭✭

    I dislike the idea of copying banner like effects to turrets and other skills. IMO they should convert "special effects" to boons. Make a banner pulse might/fury and spotter pulse fury. We need less special effects and not more.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zenith.7301 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Are you seriously comparing the balance of an expansion which is out for over 1 year (August 30th, 2016. Legion release), with one that is out for 4 weeks (Sept. 22nd, 2017).

    Wow, just wow. That's bias right there.

    How about you pull some benchmarks from WoW 4 weeks post launch of Legion as comparison?

    That's not even getting into all the issues of how streamlined and normalised all of WoWs classes are by now as well as itemisation, etc. etc.

    still each 1 day expansion in wow was more balanced than gw2 way way more. more options were for dps and still 4 tanks were good and same for healers like 5 option for healers. HoT was like 2 years and didn't manage to balance the necro or other specs which were useless. legion had balance on the first day than HoT after 2 years and GW2 core of 3 years all together.

    You are so biased, it's insulting to WoW players (and uninformed at that, which is even worse).

    How balanced was warrior tank at release of Legion? Compared to Death Knight?

    How balanced is resto druid compared to other healers?

    I could go on but honestly, why bother. You have already shown you have 0 clue of WoW meta and how it works.

    Blizzard does a balance roulet which let's every class be on top for a while. WoW is nothing but unbalanced, and that's by design.

    so 2 years of HoT was more balanced than 1 day of legion or cataclysm right????????

    That's beside the point. The games are completely different. Blizzard gets to reinvent and remake their class balance and fix the issues they create with each expansion. They've also normalised and taken all uniquness out of their class system to streamline and provide content faster ever since WotlK. Also no, every single expansion there has huge outliers in balance, and that's with a team and financial means which are far beyond Arenanets.

    GW2 actually has unique classes with unique playstyles and buffs/mechanics and due to its not increasing level cap and gear cap is a way more difficult monster to balance.

    Those are the things you are leaving out in your rant which make a huge difference.

    I'm sorry, but that's beyond ignorant.

    WoW has more classes total with as much as 3 viable specs per class, which play completely differently from each spec. I can't believe you would make a statement like this.

    Yes, keep focusing on quantity over quality. I've experienced Blizzards balance skills often enough both in a high end pve enviroment and pvp enviroment.

    Coming to a different game and braggin abaout how good it is is beyond ignorant. Want me to share a link to the Blizzard official forums?

    Put off the rose tinted glasses. They make you talk funny.

  • As far as standardizing the support buffs to grouped/nonstacking +150 buffs I´ve been thinking that for years. Unique buffs being standardized would be just about the best thing which could happen in this game.

  • Draco.9480Draco.9480 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Zenith.7301 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Are you seriously comparing the balance of an expansion which is out for over 1 year (August 30th, 2016. Legion release), with one that is out for 4 weeks (Sept. 22nd, 2017).

    Wow, just wow. That's bias right there.

    How about you pull some benchmarks from WoW 4 weeks post launch of Legion as comparison?

    That's not even getting into all the issues of how streamlined and normalised all of WoWs classes are by now as well as itemisation, etc. etc.

    still each 1 day expansion in wow was more balanced than gw2 way way more. more options were for dps and still 4 tanks were good and same for healers like 5 option for healers. HoT was like 2 years and didn't manage to balance the necro or other specs which were useless. legion had balance on the first day than HoT after 2 years and GW2 core of 3 years all together.

    You are so biased, it's insulting to WoW players (and uninformed at that, which is even worse).

    How balanced was warrior tank at release of Legion? Compared to Death Knight?

    How balanced is resto druid compared to other healers?

    I could go on but honestly, why bother. You have already shown you have 0 clue of WoW meta and how it works.

    Blizzard does a balance roulet which let's every class be on top for a while. WoW is nothing but unbalanced, and that's by design.

    so 2 years of HoT was more balanced than 1 day of legion or cataclysm right????????

    That's beside the point. The games are completely different. Blizzard gets to reinvent and remake their class balance and fix the issues they create with each expansion. They've also normalised and taken all uniquness out of their class system to streamline and provide content faster ever since WotlK. Also no, every single expansion there has huge outliers in balance, and that's with a team and financial means which are far beyond Arenanets.

    GW2 actually has unique classes with unique playstyles and buffs/mechanics and due to its not increasing level cap and gear cap is a way more difficult monster to balance.

    Those are the things you are leaving out in your rant which make a huge difference.

    I'm sorry, but that's beyond ignorant.

    WoW has more classes total with as much as 3 viable specs per class, which play completely differently from each spec. I can't believe you would make a statement like this.

    Yes, keep focusing on quantity over quality. I've experienced Blizzards balance skills often enough both in a high end pve enviroment and pvp enviroment.

    Coming to a different game and braggin abaout how good it is is beyond ignorant. Want me to share a link to the Blizzard official forums?

    Put off the rose tinted glasses. They make you talk funny.

    I played WoW for like 2 years and I've never experienced big difference in balance or uselessness in any class. All could play DPS and all were welcome even in competitive. ya're just defending zis primitive system we have right now, which shows that ya don't want any change in this game and like zis ridiculous imbalance in this game which most of the specs in zis game aren't useful at all in competitive.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Zenith.7301 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Are you seriously comparing the balance of an expansion which is out for over 1 year (August 30th, 2016. Legion release), with one that is out for 4 weeks (Sept. 22nd, 2017).

    Wow, just wow. That's bias right there.

    How about you pull some benchmarks from WoW 4 weeks post launch of Legion as comparison?

    That's not even getting into all the issues of how streamlined and normalised all of WoWs classes are by now as well as itemisation, etc. etc.

    still each 1 day expansion in wow was more balanced than gw2 way way more. more options were for dps and still 4 tanks were good and same for healers like 5 option for healers. HoT was like 2 years and didn't manage to balance the necro or other specs which were useless. legion had balance on the first day than HoT after 2 years and GW2 core of 3 years all together.

    You are so biased, it's insulting to WoW players (and uninformed at that, which is even worse).

    How balanced was warrior tank at release of Legion? Compared to Death Knight?

    How balanced is resto druid compared to other healers?

    I could go on but honestly, why bother. You have already shown you have 0 clue of WoW meta and how it works.

    Blizzard does a balance roulet which let's every class be on top for a while. WoW is nothing but unbalanced, and that's by design.

    so 2 years of HoT was more balanced than 1 day of legion or cataclysm right????????

    That's beside the point. The games are completely different. Blizzard gets to reinvent and remake their class balance and fix the issues they create with each expansion. They've also normalised and taken all uniquness out of their class system to streamline and provide content faster ever since WotlK. Also no, every single expansion there has huge outliers in balance, and that's with a team and financial means which are far beyond Arenanets.

    GW2 actually has unique classes with unique playstyles and buffs/mechanics and due to its not increasing level cap and gear cap is a way more difficult monster to balance.

    Those are the things you are leaving out in your rant which make a huge difference.

    I'm sorry, but that's beyond ignorant.

    WoW has more classes total with as much as 3 viable specs per class, which play completely differently from each spec. I can't believe you would make a statement like this.

    Yes, keep focusing on quantity over quality. I've experienced Blizzards balance skills often enough both in a high end pve enviroment and pvp enviroment.

    Coming to a different game and braggin abaout how good it is is beyond ignorant. Want me to share a link to the Blizzard official forums?

    Put off the rose tinted glasses. They make you talk funny.

    I played WoW for like 2 years and I've never experienced big difference in balance or uselessness in any class. All could play DPS and all were welcome even in competitive. ya're just defending zis primitive system we have right now, which shows that ya don't want any change in this game and like zis ridiculous imbalance in this game which most of the specs in zis game aren't useful at all in competitive.

    2 years?

    I played Wow from vanilla up to the end of WotlK with return playing every expansion besides panda trash. You are either lying, never participated in the highend content you are talking about or blissfully ignorant.

  • Monster.4802Monster.4802 Member
    edited October 23, 2017

    Please dont make GW2 a WoW clone...

    The qT benchmark even says:
    Remember, don’t be a class kitten and have fun!

    The raids can be done with all classes. There is no need to even try to max your dmg output. Necro is a fun class. Dont change how the whole game works just because you do lower dps. You can do other things. The good thing about gw2 is that its not only about maxing dps you can do all the things in the game and finish it all with other builds.

    And standardizing buffs means some classes wont be played anymore cuz the unique buff would be gained with another class that might do something better.
    Lets say necro and warrior both give +150 toughness. And you want that but the warrior can do something else slightly better. Elitists will only pick warriors...

  • Btw whats the hate against thief?

    So the least for each class and roles I suggest :
    Elementalist - Power, Condi, Heal.
    Mesmer - Power, Condi, Tank.
    Necromancer - Power, Condi, Heal.
    Ranger - Power, Condi, Heal.
    Thief - Power, Condi.
    Engineer - Power, Condi, Heal, Tank.
    Guardian - Power, Condi, Heal, Tank.
    Warrior - Power, Condi, Tank.
    Revenant - Power, Condi, Tank.

    They only get 2 options from you where the rest get 3 or even 4?
    Lets keep the game diverse and lets not take unique things from a class away and put them on others.

    I can see you would like a sandbox game. Where you can pick your own stats and skills. There are no classes and you can pick anything you want... There are games like that GW2 is not one of them. The reason I like GW2 is that when I log on my thief I have a completely different playstyle than when I log on my necro. Both are fun but each in their own way.

  • LadyKitty.6120LadyKitty.6120 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2017

    @Monster.4802 said:
    Thief - Power, Condi.
    They only get 2 options from you where the rest get 3 or even 4?

    Get some Knight's and Cavalier's trinkets and you have a rather good tank thief (as long as some mechanism doesn't require a mandatory block). Dem Invigorating Precision heals...

    It's Kitty. The young lady who streams and records videos playing various (non-)metabuilds. Raid/fractal videos at youtube.com/LadyKitty, Kittymarks test results at youtube.com/Kittymarks and tinyurl.com/Kittymarks and streams at twitch.tv/ladykittygw2 .

  • Walhalla.5473Walhalla.5473 Member ✭✭✭

    If a class would be only brought because of a unique buff that gives you 150 points of one stat than the class itself has a problem. Lets say, PPD and EA are both giving 150 points in power and condition damage and don't stack off each other and it results that no group is accepting engi anymore. Is the problem the buff or the class itself?

    And to the WoW argument. While WoW has a better class diversity, the balancing itself is quite meh and sometimes its even worse than GW2 PvE balancing. Some specs have weird scaling with the stats and some are flawed by design ( Fury Warrior ). Which means that one spec can be trash tier at the beginning of the raid progression but top tier at the end thanks to the stats that are dropping and vice versa.

  • Sethorus.9231Sethorus.9231 Member ✭✭
    edited October 23, 2017

    So in short OP wants GW2 to become WOW. It's comparing bananas with potatoes tbh, both games have different playstyles, and aside from the tech suggestion about having boons to apply to squads instead of groups to give other spot to other roles in the raid, I couldn't find anything else more useful.

    Ironic though is the fact that GW2 always stated it was a game without the holy trinity and a pseudo trinity had to be assembled so raids could be doable as they are of now
    cof cof chronos and druids cof cof

  • Scipion.7548Scipion.7548 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2017

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    2 years?

    I played Wow from vanilla up to the end of WotlK with return playing every expansion besides panda trash. You are either lying, never participated in the highend content you are talking about or blissfully ignorant.

    I have to defend Draco. I played I played WoW easily 8 cumulated years, from vanilla to now. Between WOTLK and MoP, I was an hardcore player, and during WOTLK I was member of the first guild of my server which was also the 10th best french guild (yes ok, the average french player isn't known to be the best player, but the top french players are more or less as good as the top german players) and then I was the best geared shaman of the server. Some of my guild mates were hardcore theorycrafters. I don't write this to impress you but to demonstate I have a good knowledge of WoW.

    I played only one character in raid, never had to switch. Except during vanilla and BC, WoW hardcore PvE was far more balanced than GW2. When my class & spec was on the bottom, the difference with the top classes wasn't high enough for my guild to force me to switch. My skill was enough to compensate. For Blizzard, the creed is "bring the player, not the class". Maybe Blizzard was too far on this way, but I see clearly a room for improvement for Anet.

    GW2 has two problems :

    • the biggest problem is the fact that Anet originally tried to avoid dedicated roles, which is impossible I think. If Anet decides now to set 2-3 roles for each classes (while bringing solid tools for each classes to fill their roles), it would be more easy to balance and it would create less frustration for players ("i'm a heavy armor class, why i can't tank ?"). At WoW if I create a shaman I know that I will be accepted as a dps or a healer in at least 90% of the raiding groups/guilds. Can I say that when creating a guardian (or another class) on GW2 ?
    • this problem is aggravated by a the fact that it's too easy to create a new character instantly ready to raid. Because of that, the cost to force a member of your guild to switch to a more optimal class is close to 0. Why playing an engineer when creating a druid ready to raid would take only few minutes (if you have enough xp tomes and gear) ? On WoW you have to wait he tilts max lvl and then you have to gear it. And then a new patch comes which could waste all this effort.

    Solutions :

    • All gears and weapons, except legendaries, are now character bound. Maybe the possibily the send just one time an equipment to an other character if you loot something on the "wrong" character.
    • each classes have 2-3 roles (from power, condi, tank, support, and maybe healer differenciated from support and controller from tank).
  • Joxer.6024Joxer.6024 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Zenith.7301 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Are you seriously comparing the balance of an expansion which is out for over 1 year (August 30th, 2016. Legion release), with one that is out for 4 weeks (Sept. 22nd, 2017).

    Wow, just wow. That's bias right there.

    How about you pull some benchmarks from WoW 4 weeks post launch of Legion as comparison?

    That's not even getting into all the issues of how streamlined and normalised all of WoWs classes are by now as well as itemisation, etc. etc.

    still each 1 day expansion in wow was more balanced than gw2 way way more. more options were for dps and still 4 tanks were good and same for healers like 5 option for healers. HoT was like 2 years and didn't manage to balance the necro or other specs which were useless. legion had balance on the first day than HoT after 2 years and GW2 core of 3 years all together.

    You are so biased, it's insulting to WoW players (and uninformed at that, which is even worse).

    How balanced was warrior tank at release of Legion? Compared to Death Knight?

    How balanced is resto druid compared to other healers?

    I could go on but honestly, why bother. You have already shown you have 0 clue of WoW meta and how it works.

    Blizzard does a balance roulet which let's every class be on top for a while. WoW is nothing but unbalanced, and that's by design.

    so 2 years of HoT was more balanced than 1 day of legion or cataclysm right????????

    That's beside the point. The games are completely different. Blizzard gets to reinvent and remake their class balance and fix the issues they create with each expansion. They've also normalised and taken all uniquness out of their class system to streamline and provide content faster ever since WotlK. Also no, every single expansion there has huge outliers in balance, and that's with a team and financial means which are far beyond Arenanets.

    GW2 actually has unique classes with unique playstyles and buffs/mechanics and due to its not increasing level cap and gear cap is a way more difficult monster to balance.

    Those are the things you are leaving out in your rant which make a huge difference.

    I'm sorry, but that's beyond ignorant.

    WoW has more classes total with as much as 3 viable specs per class, which play completely differently from each spec. I can't believe you would make a statement like this.

    Yes, keep focusing on quantity over quality. I've experienced Blizzards balance skills often enough both in a high end pve enviroment and pvp enviroment.

    Coming to a different game and braggin abaout how good it is is beyond ignorant. Want me to share a link to the Blizzard official forums?

    Put off the rose tinted glasses. They make you talk funny.

    I played WoW for like 2 years and I've never experienced big difference in balance or uselessness in any class. All could play DPS and all were welcome even in competitive. ya're just defending zis primitive system we have right now, which shows that ya don't want any change in this game and like zis ridiculous imbalance in this game which most of the specs in zis game aren't useful at all in competitive.

    2 years?

    I played Wow from vanilla up to the end of WotlK with return playing every expansion besides panda trash. You are either lying, never participated in the highend content you are talking about or blissfully ignorant.

    Lol, I wasn't going to comment but I agree Cyninja.....2 years!? I too was a vanilla player up to Legion and left because it all just got to homogenized. And to the OP, I know you asked us not to but after reading all this, mate, go back to WOW, you obviously miss it.
    This game needs to be so far away from WOW but sadly ANET is getting sucked into the hype and I hope they pull their heads out and get back on track. Yea Cyninja.....panda was painful as!!! ;)

  • Daffan.8924Daffan.8924 Member ✭✭
    edited October 23, 2017

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Are you seriously comparing the balance of an expansion which is out for over 1 year (August 30th, 2016. Legion release), with one that is out for 4 weeks (Sept. 22nd, 2017).

    Wow, just wow. That's bias right there.

    How about you pull some benchmarks from WoW 4 weeks post launch of Legion as comparison?

    That's not even getting into all the issues of how streamlined and normalised all of WoWs classes are by now as well as itemisation, etc. etc.

    But you can play any class, any spec and still raid high level. Just because World Firsts asks for stacking Balance Druids (WoD?) doesn't mean everyone does it, same story with Guardian Druids later on.

    In GW2, you get kicked if your not even playing the right spec and 75% of weapons/specs are garbage, specifically weapon combos which are unusable. In fact, I will go as far to say that many weapons have actual abilities that are unusable or completely stupid, e.g Guardian Torch 5 is a dps LOSS LOL and everything in GW2 to do with projectiles is laughable, my favorite is the PvP abilities like Ranger LB 3, making 1/5 of your abilities useless in PvE.

  • Draco.9480Draco.9480 Member ✭✭✭

    @Monster.4802 said:
    Btw whats the hate against thief?

    So the least for each class and roles I suggest :
    Elementalist - Power, Condi, Heal.
    Mesmer - Power, Condi, Tank.
    Necromancer - Power, Condi, Heal.
    Ranger - Power, Condi, Heal.
    Thief - Power, Condi.
    Engineer - Power, Condi, Heal, Tank.
    Guardian - Power, Condi, Heal, Tank.
    Warrior - Power, Condi, Tank.
    Revenant - Power, Condi, Tank.

    They only get 2 options from you where the rest get 3 or even 4?
    Lets keep the game diverse and lets not take unique things from a class away and put them on others.

    I can see you would like a sandbox game. Where you can pick your own stats and skills. There are no classes and you can pick anything you want... There are games like that GW2 is not one of them. The reason I like GW2 is that when I log on my thief I have a completely different playstyle than when I log on my necro. Both are fun but each in their own way.

    Since when thief can heal others or tank monsters? all the point is to be sneaky and deliver deadly damage.

  • Draco.9480Draco.9480 Member ✭✭✭

    @Monster.4802 said:
    Please dont make GW2 a WoW clone...

    The qT benchmark even says:
    Remember, don’t be a class kitten and have fun!

    The raids can be done with all classes. There is no need to even try to max your dmg output. Necro is a fun class. Dont change how the whole game works just because you do lower dps. You can do other things. The good thing about gw2 is that its not only about maxing dps you can do all the things in the game and finish it all with other builds.

    And standardizing buffs means some classes wont be played anymore cuz the unique buff would be gained with another class that might do something better.
    Lets say necro and warrior both give +150 toughness. And you want that but the warrior can do something else slightly better. Elitists will only pick warriors...

    It won't happen that 1 is better. there's no better cuz boss mechanics if they're balanced but when no balanced at all ya take the best cuz too much difference.
    Elitists were born cuz of thoe big differences, if there wasn't a gap they wouldn't even notice it and let 'em even both in.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2017

    @Scipion.7548 said:

    I played only one character in raid, never had to switch. Except during vanilla and BC, WoW hardcore PvE was far more balanced than GW2. When my class & spec was on the bottom, the difference with the top classes wasn't high enough for my guild to force me to switch. My skill was enough to compensate. For Blizzard, the creed is "bring the player, not the class". Maybe Blizzard was too far on this way, but I see clearly a room for improvement for Anet.

    You mean just like here where your guild won't mind if you run necromancer or basically any damage spec as long as you can perform on it in GW2? Especially since raids here are far more lenient and less hardcore?

    Blizzard creed has always been:"bring the gear". Let's keep it honest.

  • Draco.9480Draco.9480 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Zenith.7301 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Are you seriously comparing the balance of an expansion which is out for over 1 year (August 30th, 2016. Legion release), with one that is out for 4 weeks (Sept. 22nd, 2017).

    Wow, just wow. That's bias right there.

    How about you pull some benchmarks from WoW 4 weeks post launch of Legion as comparison?

    That's not even getting into all the issues of how streamlined and normalised all of WoWs classes are by now as well as itemisation, etc. etc.

    still each 1 day expansion in wow was more balanced than gw2 way way more. more options were for dps and still 4 tanks were good and same for healers like 5 option for healers. HoT was like 2 years and didn't manage to balance the necro or other specs which were useless. legion had balance on the first day than HoT after 2 years and GW2 core of 3 years all together.

    You are so biased, it's insulting to WoW players (and uninformed at that, which is even worse).

    How balanced was warrior tank at release of Legion? Compared to Death Knight?

    How balanced is resto druid compared to other healers?

    I could go on but honestly, why bother. You have already shown you have 0 clue of WoW meta and how it works.

    Blizzard does a balance roulet which let's every class be on top for a while. WoW is nothing but unbalanced, and that's by design.

    so 2 years of HoT was more balanced than 1 day of legion or cataclysm right????????

    That's beside the point. The games are completely different. Blizzard gets to reinvent and remake their class balance and fix the issues they create with each expansion. They've also normalised and taken all uniquness out of their class system to streamline and provide content faster ever since WotlK. Also no, every single expansion there has huge outliers in balance, and that's with a team and financial means which are far beyond Arenanets.

    GW2 actually has unique classes with unique playstyles and buffs/mechanics and due to its not increasing level cap and gear cap is a way more difficult monster to balance.

    Those are the things you are leaving out in your rant which make a huge difference.

    I'm sorry, but that's beyond ignorant.

    WoW has more classes total with as much as 3 viable specs per class, which play completely differently from each spec. I can't believe you would make a statement like this.

    Yes, keep focusing on quantity over quality. I've experienced Blizzards balance skills often enough both in a high end pve enviroment and pvp enviroment.

    Coming to a different game and braggin abaout how good it is is beyond ignorant. Want me to share a link to the Blizzard official forums?

    Put off the rose tinted glasses. They make you talk funny.

    I played WoW for like 2 years and I've never experienced big difference in balance or uselessness in any class. All could play DPS and all were welcome even in competitive. ya're just defending zis primitive system we have right now, which shows that ya don't want any change in this game and like zis ridiculous imbalance in this game which most of the specs in zis game aren't useful at all in competitive.

    2 years?

    I played Wow from vanilla up to the end of WotlK with return playing every expansion besides panda trash. You are either lying, never participated in the highend content you are talking about or blissfully ignorant.

    I played WotLK and Cataclysm. I liked how they evolved form expansion to expansion to more friendly systems, however I felt only gear grind in the end. I still won't forget the good raids in cataclysm that made many people wipe and I was with low gear outdpsing people with less gear cuz I choose the right stats for my spec while others just loaded item level without looking at the stats. People that actually understood better in their class than me understanding in my class out dpsed me regardless what class it was. I still felt useful with the edgy class DK and I liked it. But in GW2 I like necro but can't be useful at all. If I use it now I become lowest dps in my guild and drag the team down. I've even a friend played WoD and Legion and says everything is organized while gw2 everything is messed up.

  • Draco.9480Draco.9480 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Scipion.7548 said:

    I played only one character in raid, never had to switch. Except during vanilla and BC, WoW hardcore PvE was far more balanced than GW2. When my class & spec was on the bottom, the difference with the top classes wasn't high enough for my guild to force me to switch. My skill was enough to compensate. For Blizzard, the creed is "bring the player, not the class". Maybe Blizzard was too far on this way, but I see clearly a room for improvement for Anet.

    You mean just like here where your guild won't mind if you run necromancer or basically any damage spec as long as you can perform on it in GW2? Especially since raids here are far more lenient and less hardcore?

    Blizzard creed has always been:"bring the gear". Let's keep it honest.

    ya played for so long and yet ya're the most ignorant of all of us. Took 2 monthes to kill a boss in mythic in WoD. what in gw2? 1 day to kill a boss and like few days on CM?
    gear is for ya to have a goal to progress because they don't have much options like skins and other casual things in gw2.
    The thing that actually made people progress in the game was before the expansion with the dungeons that people needed to learn how to blast smoke fields and fire fields to skip and burst bosses but the content was so kitten people started to do it while asleep and grinded gold from it.
    Ya totally ignored all of my points and claim wow isn't balanced while gw2 is ok compared to first day of any WoW expansion. But who I do argue with, with someone with a biased player who thinks others are wrong and he's ok.

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Zenith.7301 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Are you seriously comparing the balance of an expansion which is out for over 1 year (August 30th, 2016. Legion release), with one that is out for 4 weeks (Sept. 22nd, 2017).

    Wow, just wow. That's bias right there.

    How about you pull some benchmarks from WoW 4 weeks post launch of Legion as comparison?

    That's not even getting into all the issues of how streamlined and normalised all of WoWs classes are by now as well as itemisation, etc. etc.

    still each 1 day expansion in wow was more balanced than gw2 way way more. more options were for dps and still 4 tanks were good and same for healers like 5 option for healers. HoT was like 2 years and didn't manage to balance the necro or other specs which were useless. legion had balance on the first day than HoT after 2 years and GW2 core of 3 years all together.

    You are so biased, it's insulting to WoW players (and uninformed at that, which is even worse).

    How balanced was warrior tank at release of Legion? Compared to Death Knight?

    How balanced is resto druid compared to other healers?

    I could go on but honestly, why bother. You have already shown you have 0 clue of WoW meta and how it works.

    Blizzard does a balance roulet which let's every class be on top for a while. WoW is nothing but unbalanced, and that's by design.

    so 2 years of HoT was more balanced than 1 day of legion or cataclysm right????????

    That's beside the point. The games are completely different. Blizzard gets to reinvent and remake their class balance and fix the issues they create with each expansion. They've also normalised and taken all uniquness out of their class system to streamline and provide content faster ever since WotlK. Also no, every single expansion there has huge outliers in balance, and that's with a team and financial means which are far beyond Arenanets.

    GW2 actually has unique classes with unique playstyles and buffs/mechanics and due to its not increasing level cap and gear cap is a way more difficult monster to balance.

    Those are the things you are leaving out in your rant which make a huge difference.

    I'm sorry, but that's beyond ignorant.

    WoW has more classes total with as much as 3 viable specs per class, which play completely differently from each spec. I can't believe you would make a statement like this.

    Yes, keep focusing on quantity over quality. I've experienced Blizzards balance skills often enough both in a high end pve enviroment and pvp enviroment.

    Coming to a different game and braggin abaout how good it is is beyond ignorant. Want me to share a link to the Blizzard official forums?

    Put off the rose tinted glasses. They make you talk funny.

    That you would even say a demonhunter plays the same as a death knight or a shadow priest to an elemental shaman or a combat rogue to a survival hunter tells me how little you actually know of what you're talking about.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zenith.7301 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Zenith.7301 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Are you seriously comparing the balance of an expansion which is out for over 1 year (August 30th, 2016. Legion release), with one that is out for 4 weeks (Sept. 22nd, 2017).

    Wow, just wow. That's bias right there.

    How about you pull some benchmarks from WoW 4 weeks post launch of Legion as comparison?

    That's not even getting into all the issues of how streamlined and normalised all of WoWs classes are by now as well as itemisation, etc. etc.

    still each 1 day expansion in wow was more balanced than gw2 way way more. more options were for dps and still 4 tanks were good and same for healers like 5 option for healers. HoT was like 2 years and didn't manage to balance the necro or other specs which were useless. legion had balance on the first day than HoT after 2 years and GW2 core of 3 years all together.

    You are so biased, it's insulting to WoW players (and uninformed at that, which is even worse).

    How balanced was warrior tank at release of Legion? Compared to Death Knight?

    How balanced is resto druid compared to other healers?

    I could go on but honestly, why bother. You have already shown you have 0 clue of WoW meta and how it works.

    Blizzard does a balance roulet which let's every class be on top for a while. WoW is nothing but unbalanced, and that's by design.

    so 2 years of HoT was more balanced than 1 day of legion or cataclysm right????????

    That's beside the point. The games are completely different. Blizzard gets to reinvent and remake their class balance and fix the issues they create with each expansion. They've also normalised and taken all uniquness out of their class system to streamline and provide content faster ever since WotlK. Also no, every single expansion there has huge outliers in balance, and that's with a team and financial means which are far beyond Arenanets.

    GW2 actually has unique classes with unique playstyles and buffs/mechanics and due to its not increasing level cap and gear cap is a way more difficult monster to balance.

    Those are the things you are leaving out in your rant which make a huge difference.

    I'm sorry, but that's beyond ignorant.

    WoW has more classes total with as much as 3 viable specs per class, which play completely differently from each spec. I can't believe you would make a statement like this.

    Yes, keep focusing on quantity over quality. I've experienced Blizzards balance skills often enough both in a high end pve enviroment and pvp enviroment.

    Coming to a different game and braggin abaout how good it is is beyond ignorant. Want me to share a link to the Blizzard official forums?

    Put off the rose tinted glasses. They make you talk funny.

    That you would even say a demonhunter plays the same as a death knight or a shadow priest to an elemental shaman or a combat rogue to a survival hunter tells me how little you actually know of what you're talking about.

    I never said so, but since we are comparing: are you implying GW2 classes play similar?

    I said they normalised skills accross multiple classes (especially healing and support). There is a difference there. There is no unique skills for any WoW class any longer. It makes balance a lot easier.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Scipion.7548 said:

    I played only one character in raid, never had to switch. Except during vanilla and BC, WoW hardcore PvE was far more balanced than GW2. When my class & spec was on the bottom, the difference with the top classes wasn't high enough for my guild to force me to switch. My skill was enough to compensate. For Blizzard, the creed is "bring the player, not the class". Maybe Blizzard was too far on this way, but I see clearly a room for improvement for Anet.

    You mean just like here where your guild won't mind if you run necromancer or basically any damage spec as long as you can perform on it in GW2? Especially since raids here are far more lenient and less hardcore?

    Blizzard creed has always been:"bring the gear". Let's keep it honest.

    ya played for so long and yet ya're the most ignorant of all of us. Took 2 monthes to kill a boss in mythic in WoD. what in gw2? 1 day to kill a boss and like few days on CM?
    gear is for ya to have a goal to progress because they don't have much options like skins and other casual things in gw2.
    The thing that actually made people progress in the game was before the expansion with the dungeons that people needed to learn how to blast smoke fields and fire fields to skip and burst bosses but the content was so kitten people started to do it while asleep and grinded gold from it.
    Ya totally ignored all of my points and claim wow isn't balanced while gw2 is ok compared to first day of any WoW expansion. But who I do argue with, with someone with a biased player who thinks others are wrong and he's ok.

    I never said GW2 was okay. I was calling you out on your bs that WoW is balanced when it is not.

  • Rain.7543Rain.7543 Member ✭✭

    Reading some points in your post OP I have to wonder... do we play the same game? What taunt skills? The only instance when CC is used is to break CC bars. Such taunt mechanic doesnt even exist in raids, so you genarally ask the devs to completely rework some of the basic mechanics and how raids function at its core, which alone will require a MASSIVE amount of work. No, thanks. I rather have the small raid and fractals teams focus on getting new content out. Also what bosses are there that would require 2 tanks at the same time and even if they did how is that going to help at all with build diversity, considering the monopoly chronos have on tanking and for good reason? Consider that even if alacrity and quickness gets nerfec, chronos will still be laregely prefered as tanks. They arent just alacrity/quickness bots. They bring much more on the table, as far as utility and team support goes. Are we again playing the same game? Mind also explain to me how you will kill Xera without any healer at all, or any boss at all for that matter?

    As far, as Weaver goes 47k dps on golem is a qT benchmark. Outside of the hardcore raiding groups a large percent of the Ele's fail to reach even half that number and thats on golem, let alone in real raid scenario, so Weaver is far from the most prefered dps option at the moment. Quite the opposite - the dps spots now are more devirsed then ever - you can either take guardians, eles, rangers, even necros if you want and you will still be able to clear raids no problems (excluding Sloth and KC, where power burst dps classes are prefered naturally)

    You dont really ask for balance, no. From what I've gathered from your post you are asking for complete rework on how raids and fractals function, so you can play your necro. I've seen a lot of people asking for massive changes and balances, so they can play whatever they want in raids. The reality is... that really cant happen in high level challenging content, because no matter what balances Anet do, players will always come up with most effecient team comps, and that will inevitably leave some classes out of the meta. META's arent something unique to Guild wars 2 either, you have those in almost any MMO that ever existed. But also META is not the only way to play, its the way to go if you want to be most efficient in your gameplay, but you can do pretty smooth raid clears with a lot of different raids setups, which arent META.

  • Miellyn.6847Miellyn.6847 Member ✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    From a game without a trinity, to a game with one of the strictest versions of it.
    In other mmorpgs you need a tank, but many builds fit the role, in gw2 you need a chronomancer.
    In other mmorpgs you need a healer, but many builds fit the role, in gw2 you need a druid

    I know that it's very possible to finish Raids without those, and for example Tempest healer is better healer than Druid.
    But this is the most optimal way to play and unfortunately we've seen nothing from the developers to change it, even after adding 9 new elite specs to the game.

    WoW is exactly the same. From the first 20 Sargeras Mystic kills 19 of them used druids as tanks (not the first raid of the expansion). There will be always an optimal way to play. You can change it but you can't remove it. Removing unique buffs just makes it worse. With unique buffs you have a reason to take classes even if they are not on the top. Without it just pick the best and rotate whatever the best of the current patch is.

  • Draco.9480Draco.9480 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Zenith.7301 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Zenith.7301 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Draco.9480 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Are you seriously comparing the balance of an expansion which is out for over 1 year (August 30th, 2016. Legion release), with one that is out for 4 weeks (Sept. 22nd, 2017).

    Wow, just wow. That's bias right there.

    How about you pull some benchmarks from WoW 4 weeks post launch of Legion as comparison?

    That's not even getting into all the issues of how streamlined and normalised all of WoWs classes are by now as well as itemisation, etc. etc.

    still each 1 day expansion in wow was more balanced than gw2 way way more. more options were for dps and still 4 tanks were good and same for healers like 5 option for healers. HoT was like 2 years and didn't manage to balance the necro or other specs which were useless. legion had balance on the first day than HoT after 2 years and GW2 core of 3 years all together.

    You are so biased, it's insulting to WoW players (and uninformed at that, which is even worse).

    How balanced was warrior tank at release of Legion? Compared to Death Knight?

    How balanced is resto druid compared to other healers?

    I could go on but honestly, why bother. You have already shown you have 0 clue of WoW meta and how it works.

    Blizzard does a balance roulet which let's every class be on top for a while. WoW is nothing but unbalanced, and that's by design.

    so 2 years of HoT was more balanced than 1 day of legion or cataclysm right????????

    That's beside the point. The games are completely different. Blizzard gets to reinvent and remake their class balance and fix the issues they create with each expansion. They've also normalised and taken all uniquness out of their class system to streamline and provide content faster ever since WotlK. Also no, every single expansion there has huge outliers in balance, and that's with a team and financial means which are far beyond Arenanets.

    GW2 actually has unique classes with unique playstyles and buffs/mechanics and due to its not increasing level cap and gear cap is a way more difficult monster to balance.

    Those are the things you are leaving out in your rant which make a huge difference.

    I'm sorry, but that's beyond ignorant.

    WoW has more classes total with as much as 3 viable specs per class, which play completely differently from each spec. I can't believe you would make a statement like this.

    Yes, keep focusing on quantity over quality. I've experienced Blizzards balance skills often enough both in a high end pve enviroment and pvp enviroment.

    Coming to a different game and braggin abaout how good it is is beyond ignorant. Want me to share a link to the Blizzard official forums?

    Put off the rose tinted glasses. They make you talk funny.

    That you would even say a demonhunter plays the same as a death knight or a shadow priest to an elemental shaman or a combat rogue to a survival hunter tells me how little you actually know of what you're talking about.

    I never said so, but since we are comparing: are you implying GW2 classes play similar?

    I said they normalised skills accross multiple classes (especially healing and support). There is a difference there. There is no unique skills for any WoW class any longer. It makes balance a lot easier.

    Yer opinion doesn't matter. fact is in competitive in WoW ya can use any dps spec and be as much as effective as others while in GW2 isn't the case. So yer statements is useless basically if ya just call my flaws and nothing else. Is my argument pointing at the dev's work not relevant anymore just cuz ya think WoW isn't balanced like I said? Why did ya come here just to trash on people that actually want improvement and not stay in the same cave of druids, chronos and berserkers.

  • Draco.9480Draco.9480 Member ✭✭✭

    @Rain.7543 said:
    Reading some points in your post OP I have to wonder... do we play the same game? What taunt skills? The only instance when CC is used is to break CC bars. Such taunt mechanic doesnt even exist in raids, so you genarally ask the devs to completely rework some of the basic mechanics and how raids function at its core, which alone will require a MASSIVE amount of work. No, thanks. I rather have the small raid and fractals teams focus on getting new content out. Also what bosses are there that would require 2 tanks at the same time and even if they did how is that going to help at all with build diversity, considering the monopoly chronos have on tanking and for good reason? Consider that even if alacrity and quickness gets nerfec, chronos will still be laregely prefered as tanks. They arent just alacrity/quickness bots. They bring much more on the table, as far as utility and team support goes. Are we again playing the same game? Mind also explain to me how you will kill Xera without any healer at all, or any boss at all for that matter?

    As far, as Weaver goes 47k dps on golem is a qT benchmark. Outside of the hardcore raiding groups a large percent of the Ele's fail to reach even half that number and thats on golem, let alone in real raid scenario, so Weaver is far from the most prefered dps option at the moment. Quite the opposite - the dps spots now are more devirsed then ever - you can either take guardians, eles, rangers, even necros if you want and you will still be able to clear raids no problems (excluding Sloth and KC, where power burst dps classes are prefered naturally)

    You dont really ask for balance, no. From what I've gathered from your post you are asking for complete rework on how raids and fractals function, so you can play your necro. I've seen a lot of people asking for massive changes and balances, so they can play whatever they want in raids. The reality is... that really cant happen in high level challenging content, because no matter what balances Anet do, players will always come up with most effecient team comps, and that will inevitably leave some classes out of the meta. META's arent something unique to Guild wars 2 either, you have those in almost any MMO that ever existed. But also META is not the only way to play, its the way to go if you want to be most efficient in your gameplay, but you can do pretty smooth raid clears with a lot of different raids setups, which arent META.

    Who cares about bad players not adapting to the class. I'm talking about competitive and not casuals! People in my guild hit the benchmark of qT and do way more DPS than they did on Tempest on power favored bosses which are the most bosses in raids and 95% of the fractals. Ya have no idea what ya're talking about when ya tell me I don't have to go META. META=most efficient tactics available. In WoW there's not much of META.
    Ya just said ya can clear raids but "(excluding Sloth and KC, where power burst dps classes are prefered naturally) ". so yer argument goes to trashcan. Those bosses are part of the game and ya can't ignore 'em. Can ya do KC mid with 4 Necros? Can ya do Sloth 3 Mushrooms Sloth with DD Power? Can ya do Xera middle with 2 rangers and 2 engineers? Why can't I do perform hardcore tactics with those classes? ya know why? cuz NO BALANCE BETWEEN CLASSES AND BUILDS!
    Also about xera I killed Xera middle with any healer. 4 tempest f/a staff, 2 condi druids, 1 minstrel chrono, 1 power chrono and 2 CPS. So don't tell me ya need healers for faceroll content.
    Why would the devs actually do a massive load of work when they can design some useless skin in the gemstore and sell it for money. Gemstore is more important than balance and healthy gameplay in both hardcore and casual PvE.
    aslo " you can either take guardians, eles, rangers, even necros if you want and you will still be able to clear raids no problems"????????? are ya kidding me? necro prefered over tempest? It was maybe prefered in W4, Matthias and Sabetha yes before the "fix" now it's just completely useless and no one takes it anymore. even qT removed it from benchmark and necro doesn't even exist as valid PvE choice anymore. Power any ranger, thief, warr, mesmer and rev don't exist at all. Even LFG won't take 'em since they're useless and can't perform any significant DPS.
    Ya clearly don't know what ya're talking about when ya said necro is prefered over weaver on most bosses. Do yer homework before saying such BS.

  • Of course WoW is more balanced. Do you have meaningfull gear choices, stats and skill there? No, so there is way easier to balance. As a warrior I can use mace, hammer, GS, axe... choose from many traits, stats, runes, sigils... in WoW i can choose between 3 specs, and everyone in that spec is the same. Way boring and way easier to balance, thank god GW isnt like that.

  • Draco.9480Draco.9480 Member ✭✭✭

    @OnizukaBR.8537 said:
    Of course WoW is more balanced. Do you have meaningfull gear choices, stats and skill there? No, so there is way easier to balance. As a warrior I can use mace, hammer, GS, axe... choose from many traits, stats, runes, sigils... in WoW i can choose between 3 specs, and everyone in that spec is the same. Way boring and way easier to balance, thank god GW isnt like that.

    Thanks the imaginary friend made zis game less diverse and less choice and more boring about choosing yer spec for being optimal.

  • I am actually looking for how the next balance and raid patch might level everything. At the moment PoF specs are somwhat overtuned and some older specs are still underperforming, while others basically always overperforming due to their kits (looking at you guardians) The raid environment could use some fresh air with more builds variety in it.

  • Miellyn.6847Miellyn.6847 Member ✭✭✭

    @Scipion.7548 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:
    WoW is exactly the same. From the first 20 Sargeras Mystic kills 19 of them used druids as tanks (not the first raid of the expansion). There will be always an optimal way to play. You can change it but you can't remove it. Removing unique buffs just makes it worse. With unique buffs you have a reason to take classes even if they are not on the top. Without it just pick the best and rotate whatever the best of the current patch is.

    On WoW, 1% of the raid groups use the very optimal way to play.
    On GW2, 99% of the raid groups use the very optimal way to play.
    On WoW, the 36 specs are allowed to raid (in all difficulties).
    On GW2, sometimes even some classes aren't allowed to raid.

    Stop comparing the average raid group of GW2 and the raid group of WoW participating to the first kill server race. I was an hardcore player in an hardcore guild and we never refused someone because of his class, even when we were first of the server. And this was during WOTLK, today it is even more balanced.

    Stop throwing around percentages especially when everyone knows that they are wrong....

    Class discrimination during the first race is WAY harder in WoW than in Guild Wars. The classes just change more frequently because of the item scaling. There are servers that get their server firsts in the next expansion. It says nothing about the setup if you are overgeared. Not a thing in Guild Wars.

    There are no classes that are not allowed to raid. There are pugs that kick you, but pugs are nothing a raid is measured. Most PUGs in WoW search for a itemlevel to outgear the raid, of course it doesn't matter then what you take. The balancing is as bad in WoW as in Guild Wars it just doesn't show as much in PUGs because of the item spiral. It is not comparabel.

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