Why deadeye in the first place? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Why deadeye in the first place?

zengara.8301zengara.8301 Member ✭✭✭

I get that A-Net want to cater to their audience, but it was way to boring and direct knowing that people wanted a sniper class.....The class itself is understandable.....thief=sniper girl from Overwatch.......I dont know, just shows that there is not that much imagination behind it, which might follow along the whole expansion to be honest, but I am not a Gw1 player, so I would only not know.
Personally thought they would take an alternative route. Thief becoming a Samurai-ish class, that would make the transformation story deeper. A thief finding out that snipers are a thing after they got a pistol seems kinda.....meeh, even with the order of shadows, but a already written story from reality transformed into the game would honestly not only totally transform thief in every place possible (PvE, SPvP, WvW) It would also make the story deeper, of how they defended against the forged and awakened for so long...etc etc.

I dont know, I literally just wanted everything but sniper, since it is boring going from 1 high melee dps class to 1 high ranged dps class. (not something just came up btw, always spoken about this, even before HoT classes where revealed)
and yeah...I get I can just play Guard or Warrior and that I got literally over 1000 lvl up scrolls if I havent already (I have), but its simply about expanding a class all around, it would have been more fun to explorer this path, it would benefit PvE, WvW greatly, I am not a big SPvP fan, but thiefs are currently jump around classes.....so maybe? Idk how much they are used.

And finally....yes I get I can just put tanky gear on and go wvw, or SPvP and role play.......But unless if the 80^2x opponents decides to do that as well, then it might not be a good idea

Just my 2 cents, but deadeye is currently OP, I cant be too mad I guess

<1

Comments

  • It is more then a sniper though. The Deadeye is more akin to a gunslinger then a modern sniper with how it changes the steal skill to the mark. The mark allows better pistol play then it did with DD since you don't have to get close anymore. Also, if they ever fix the rifle which I do love, it will be a long range weapon dealing melee level of damage on opponents which was sorely needed for this game to move away from it's melee centricness.

    So yes, it might be a boring concept to you or to others, it was sorely needed for the balance of this game to have a good long range option for people that have wanted it for a long time. There is not enough firearm wielding classes in this game as is. It needs more in my opinion.

    If Life gives you lemons, put the lemons in a sack and beat up Life for giving you lemons in the first place.

  • zengara.8301zengara.8301 Member ✭✭✭

    Well......The sniper rifle literally is meant to be a modern sniper, even if you remove the obvious picture of a sniper, the sniper position on 1 knee (from other games, reality, of cause, is different.....but so is it with gunslinger) and the difference in gunslingers being more heavy when moving and shooting.......the name of the traits literally say Sniper covers and silent scope, but it really does not matter, you can change it to gunslinger I guess, if you remove the traits and focus on the PP play. Can not deny that the actual elite specialization is meant to be a sniper, like from Overwatch tho.

    How would you want the rifle fixed, like what would be the purpose of it? Rifle and PP even with the f1 being ranged isnt really good for anything beside picking people off in wvw (roaming), not even dungeons.
    I get that we have a difference in opinion, I generally dont know what you do in the game, I play WvW mainly and sometimes raid that is probably why I wanted thief to be part of that melee train without getting destroyed at the first push.

    Well probably not firearm classes, but there are more long ranged than close ranged classes (if we look at meta, of cause anyone can be melee, even elementalist, and anyone can use 100% of their time in Gw2 just enjoying the nature of the game while only collecting mining, like what was thought about BDO......but there is always a main way people generally play, and a main way the company moves the game on)

  • ZyniX.3589ZyniX.3589 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2017

    If you don't like it that's fine. Everyone isn't supposed to fall in love with every elite spec. Maybe the next thief elite will cater to your taste. I enjoy the Deadeye rifle even if it could use more damage. It does have decent burst and good boon sharing.

  • zengara.8301zengara.8301 Member ✭✭✭

    yeah, that part was very subjective, I believe that the "samurai thief" class would have more depht, even if saying the same words as the snipers from shadows order, other might believe otherwise, really does not matter in the end since it is very subjective.

    My focus point was the reasoning for choosing sniper, since everyone else since HoT (Even WP I think) wanted a sniper. The primary reason for choosing a frontliner was of cause because how much more worth the thiefs could be in different areas of the game.

  • zengara.8301zengara.8301 Member ✭✭✭

    @ZyniX.3589 said:
    If you don't like it that's fine. Everyone isn't supposed to fall in love with every elite spec. Maybe the next thief elite will cater to your taste. I enjoy the Deadeye rifle even if it could use more damage. It does have decent burst and good boon sharing.

    Well, if I have to be 100% transparent, instead of depending on what is written between the lines, it would be cool to know others thoughts are about the snipers.
    And I personally do not think we need more damage :b Most people are experiencing 1 shot kill in WvW and 2-3 shot in SPvP; I would recomend you to watch this youtube video that shows you how to "use" a deadeye to its full potential

  • Crossaber.8934Crossaber.8934 Member ✭✭✭

    Thief with shadow step never fit into samurai style, unless you are actually thinking about ninja.

    Samurai is a japanese warrior, they are fast and deadly warrior in heavy armor, they value honor a lot, a thief samurai with stealth and back stab is never any samurai-ish.

    Cross

  • Fipmip.7219Fipmip.7219 Member ✭✭✭

    kitten I just replayed that video a few times. Invis into deadeye's mark, a single auto then kneel + dj and 18k damage. The necro could've dodged it yeah, but kitten it would have taken some serious on the ball play to turn around what was really easy for for the de to do.

  • @zengara.8301 said:
    Well......The sniper rifle literally is meant to be a modern sniper, even if you remove the obvious picture of a sniper, the sniper position on 1 knee (from other games, reality, of cause, is different.....but so is it with gunslinger) and the difference in gunslingers being more heavy when moving and shooting.......the name of the traits literally say Sniper covers and silent scope, but it really does not matter, you can change it to gunslinger I guess, if you remove the traits and focus on the PP play. Can not deny that the actual elite specialization is meant to be a sniper, like from Overwatch tho.

    How would you want the rifle fixed, like what would be the purpose of it? Rifle and PP even with the f1 being ranged isnt really good for anything beside picking people off in wvw (roaming), not even dungeons.
    I get that we have a difference in opinion, I generally dont know what you do in the game, I play WvW mainly and sometimes raid that is probably why I wanted thief to be part of that melee train without getting destroyed at the first push.

    Well probably not firearm classes, but there are more long ranged than close ranged classes (if we look at meta, of cause anyone can be melee, even elementalist, and anyone can use 100% of their time in Gw2 just enjoying the nature of the game while only collecting mining, like what was thought about BDO......but there is always a main way people generally play, and a main way the company moves the game on)

    Yes, I know of the trait naming, but be quick or be killed is a cowboy with two pistols. It can go either way. A lot of the traits do support P/P like a gunslinger. Also, one in the chamber showing a revolver cylinder open.

    They have to increase it's damage for PvE with more piercing rounds and a lot of other stuff I don't want to cover here. There are threads all about it though on this forum on how to buff its damage. Too long and too lazy for myself to type out. I don't care about the WvW/Spvp side. I only care about the PvE side for buffing the damage. The pvp side is a whole other issue with people that actually play those modes knowing more.

    All those classes that have access to long range weapons don't really use them though because of how they buffed melee combat and those weapons, so there really isn't a long range weapon user other then Staff Ele and SB sw/torch ranger. There needs to be more then just those two which is why Deadeye was needed.

    If Life gives you lemons, put the lemons in a sack and beat up Life for giving you lemons in the first place.

  • ZyniX.3589ZyniX.3589 Member ✭✭✭

    @zengara.8301 said:

    @ZyniX.3589 said:
    If you don't like it that's fine. Everyone isn't supposed to fall in love with every elite spec. Maybe the next thief elite will cater to your taste. I enjoy the Deadeye rifle even if it could use more damage. It does have decent burst and good boon sharing.

    Well, if I have to be 100% transparent, instead of depending on what is written between the lines, it would be cool to know others thoughts are about the snipers.
    And I personally do not think we need more damage :b Most people are experiencing 1 shot kill in WvW and 2-3 shot in SPvP; I would recomend you to watch this youtube video that shows you how to "use" a deadeye to its full potential

    Oh I am coming from a PvE perspective. Stealth sniper just sounds OP for pvp heh.

  • Ohoni.6057Ohoni.6057 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah, if you don't like the concept, that's fine, everyone has their own tastes. I don't think Deadeye was a bad idea, it maybe could have waited a turn or two, but it was almost inevitable eventually. I'm only upset by the execution, which I don't think is competitive with Daredevil for my attention.

  • I like it since now I have a weapon I can engage at a reasonable distance, but now I am debating about going p/p, s/d or s/p for my secondary set.

    Would be nice to have more hybrid plant and regular clothing for fashion wars or more plant armor.

  • Ayumi Spender.1082Ayumi Spender.1082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    as a dual pistol thief, I find Deadeye making my gameplay a billion times more fun and enjoyable.
    I was really excited for the rifle... but within a week I lost interest and went right back to my pistols.

  • babazhook.6805babazhook.6805 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 22, 2017

    I had trepidations on the concept when first announced, but I have immersed myself in the new DE and find it lots of fun. The traitline is designed in such a way that all manner of builds and weaponsets can benefit off it. The Sniper as a role is one I have begun to enjoy and it very effective in its role. The Cowboy build I use with p/p and Rifle is a hoot and while I have to worry about reflects and projectile hate , I think that a fair compromise and something I can deal with.

    With SA traited using CIS I can sit on tower walls or the high ground with rifle and deliberately select my next victim in an enemy zerg using the rifle. Popping in and out of stealth makes countering hard and if they do load where I am parked with AOE the combo of shadows resilience and CIS allows me to eat some damage before I move to another location. In open field I switch to p/p when it preferable.

    In open field I decide on the fly which weapon will work better at a given time. If there high terrain that acts as a buffer between myself and the targets I seek it out and "set up shop"with the rifle . If the battle more fluid I will go to p/p and ffocus down the enemy i decided to mark. I am really enjoying this more then the dodge dodge of the DD spec. I am not saying it "better" then DD. I am saying there are all manner of reasons to like it and prefer it over DD and if a given person does not like the style, it does not mean that nobody does.

    Added to this I do not find the rifle as OP. I have fallen a few times on one of my own to a DE sniper in a single shot and just shrug it off whether on my own thief or warrior or any other builds I might play. It is generally DJ That does this to me and more often then not when I am downed in such a manner , I had plenty of tools available to avoid the hit. I was just not paying attention.

    From the side of the DE , I have noticed the very presence of a DE can change how people on the other side act when they know one around especiallywhen they are the mark. Some will start randomly dodging or blocking. Some break off froma fight they are in and might be winning to flee, others abandon the sure thing stomp of a downed that they might have pulled off before. Some will break off from their group and try to eliminate you as a threat. Others seem oblivious to your presence and become easy marks. The more skilled the enemy the harder the kill will be and that a good thing.

  • Asur.9178Asur.9178 Member ✭✭✭

    @zengara.8301 said:

    @ZyniX.3589 said:
    If you don't like it that's fine. Everyone isn't supposed to fall in love with every elite spec. Maybe the next thief elite will cater to your taste. I enjoy the Deadeye rifle even if it could use more damage. It does have decent burst and good boon sharing.

    Well, if I have to be 100% transparent, instead of depending on what is written between the lines, it would be cool to know others thoughts are about the snipers.
    And I personally do not think we need more damage :b Most people are experiencing 1 shot kill in WvW and 2-3 shot in SPvP; I would recomend you to watch this youtube video that shows you how to "use" a deadeye to its full potential

    Zerk amulet...nuff said. Any decent player, especially an opposing DD will kitten on it.

    Those pathetic auto damage is a joke. A lb SlB does a better job than this while having more sustain.

    There's a reason montages mean nothing. This is a great example of it. Big numbers mean little.

    Also, none of those players knew how to dodge/reflect/absorb/block.

  • Zacchary.6183Zacchary.6183 Member ✭✭✭

    @Asur.9178 said:

    @zengara.8301 said:

    @ZyniX.3589 said:
    If you don't like it that's fine. Everyone isn't supposed to fall in love with every elite spec. Maybe the next thief elite will cater to your taste. I enjoy the Deadeye rifle even if it could use more damage. It does have decent burst and good boon sharing.

    Well, if I have to be 100% transparent, instead of depending on what is written between the lines, it would be cool to know others thoughts are about the snipers.
    And I personally do not think we need more damage :b Most people are experiencing 1 shot kill in WvW and 2-3 shot in SPvP; I would recomend you to watch this youtube video that shows you how to "use" a deadeye to its full potential

    Zerk amulet...nuff said. Any decent player, especially an opposing DD will kitten on it.

    Those pathetic auto damage is a joke. A lb SlB does a better job than this while having more sustain.

    There's a reason montages mean nothing. This is a great example of it. Big numbers mean little.

    Also, none of those players knew how to dodge/reflect/absorb/block.

    Dodging/reflecting/absorbing/blocking means nothing when you fail to notice the Deadeye setting up. And if the Deadeye knows what they are doing, you won't notice them.

    A good player can succeed with whatever is meta. A great player can succeed with whatever they want.
    [Vial of Salt]
    PSA: Deadeye isn't bad, you're just bad at using it. Out of Date
    These DE tips are still relevant. Out of Date

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I find it pretty hard to see how one would tie a samurai to a desert that's clearly a hybrid mash of mainland Asiain nations. A desert bandit with a rifle, on the other hand, does fit the bill - gunpowder and primitive projectiles have been used in that corner of the world for thousands of years.

    Rifle is among the most underused weapons in the game (among other weapons like Shortbow). I think it's safe to assume we'll be seeing a lot more of them on other classes at some point.

  • Asur.9178Asur.9178 Member ✭✭✭

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @Asur.9178 said:

    @zengara.8301 said:

    @ZyniX.3589 said:
    If you don't like it that's fine. Everyone isn't supposed to fall in love with every elite spec. Maybe the next thief elite will cater to your taste. I enjoy the Deadeye rifle even if it could use more damage. It does have decent burst and good boon sharing.

    Well, if I have to be 100% transparent, instead of depending on what is written between the lines, it would be cool to know others thoughts are about the snipers.
    And I personally do not think we need more damage :b Most people are experiencing 1 shot kill in WvW and 2-3 shot in SPvP; I would recomend you to watch this youtube video that shows you how to "use" a deadeye to its full potential

    Zerk amulet...nuff said. Any decent player, especially an opposing DD will kitten on it.

    Those pathetic auto damage is a joke. A lb SlB does a better job than this while having more sustain.

    There's a reason montages mean nothing. This is a great example of it. Big numbers mean little.

    Also, none of those players knew how to dodge/reflect/absorb/block.

    Dodging/reflecting/absorbing/blocking means nothing when you fail to notice the Deadeye setting up. And if the Deadeye knows what they are doing, you won't notice them.

    I could break down the entire video for you, but that isn't necessary...so I'll use the very first two kills.

    There's zero reasons for that necro to have not seen the DE running far/their home. He was not in stealth while running there. Hmmmm...I wonder what that could mean. Oh, were you kitten and didn't see it? Okay...pay attention to the sound. There's more than enough sound tells in this game.

    Oh, did you respawn and noticed your node just flipped? I wonder if there's an enemy there....hmmmmmm...sure must have flipped by itself after you just died to a DE. Surely there's no enemy at the point. /s

    DJ reveals you before shooting. The telegraphs are long and big enough for anyone not blind to see and react to it.

    Like I said, anyone can make a montage, especially with low skilled players. Doesn't make that elite spec/build good though. DE may be decent at trash tier PvP and open world PvE (it's a joke), but it's trash in competitive PvP AND hardcore PvE. It is especially bad when using rifle.

    PS: A glass-cannon 1-shot build like this for DD outperforms that 1-shot-1-trick pony DE. Doesn't mean it's good though.

  • @Crossaber.8934 said:
    Thief with shadow step never fit into samurai style, unless you are actually thinking about ninja.

    Samurai is a japanese warrior, they are fast and deadly warrior in heavy armor, they value honor a lot, a thief samurai with stealth and back stab is never any samurai-ish.

    That actually depends on what era of samurai we are talking, and what kind of samurai. For example ronin, which were lordless samurai rarely wore heavy armor and would wear cloth and/or leather. They also were faster than the older era samurai due to their lack of heavy armor.
    Older eras of samurai would focus more on high precision strike in short bursts since they are capable of taking blows and are often weighed down by their armor. Those precision strikes would be focused on hitting points where the opponent is more vulnerable and the armor doesn't cover very well.

    Also most/some samurai often carried more than one sword so it could go either way when it comes to great-sword or sword/sword. If we do get a great-sword though I hope it is a condi-weapon. We have enough power great-swords as it is. Ranger, Warrior, Guardian, Mesmer, Necromancer, etc are all mainly power focused.

    I personally would like something similar to older era samurai in style, but replace the heavy armor with shadow magic. There was a popular defensive ability called Shadow Form that I liked in gw1 and would enjoy seeing return that made all incoming attacks miss at a certain percentage for its duration. Maybe have that replace our steal mechanic and to be used to give us longer periods of safety to burst and escape once we are initiative starved.

  • Deadeye rifle is the main reason why i preorder POF

  • I think the concept is absolutely fine. Thief has always been quite "stereotypical" as a profession, but with an added GW twist with the shadow magic (if you can call it that) and I think this carries on with deadeye too. I mean you are a sniper that shoots cursed bullets, with cantrips like shadow flare. It reminds me a bit of like a gunmage or something.

    I like Rifle a lot in WVW as it allows me to keep my distance but still deal damage and support the rest of the blob. Traiting for boons on steal allow me to rip boons from enemies and share them with the group. It's fun!

  • Crossaber.8934Crossaber.8934 Member ✭✭✭

    @Acheron.4576 said:

    @Crossaber.8934 said:
    Thief with shadow step never fit into samurai style, unless you are actually thinking about ninja.

    Samurai is a japanese warrior, they are fast and deadly warrior in heavy armor, they value honor a lot, a thief samurai with stealth and back stab is never any samurai-ish.

    That actually depends on what era of samurai we are talking, and what kind of samurai. For example ronin, which were lordless samurai rarely wore heavy armor and would wear cloth and/or leather. They also were faster than the older era samurai due to their lack of heavy armor.
    Older eras of samurai would focus more on high precision strike in short bursts since they are capable of taking blows and are often weighed down by their armor. Those precision strikes would be focused on hitting points where the opponent is more vulnerable and the armor doesn't cover very well.

    Also most/some samurai often carried more than one sword so it could go either way when it comes to great-sword or sword/sword. If we do get a great-sword though I hope it is a condi-weapon. We have enough power great-swords as it is. Ranger, Warrior, Guardian, Mesmer, Necromancer, etc are all mainly power focused.

    I personally would like something similar to older era samurai in style, but replace the heavy armor with shadow magic. There was a popular defensive ability called Shadow Form that I liked in gw1 and would enjoy seeing return that made all incoming attacks miss at a certain percentage for its duration. Maybe have that replace our steal mechanic and to be used to give us longer periods of safety to burst and escape once we are initiative starved.

    No matter new era or old era, it doesn't help that stealth, back stab, shadowstep from core thief doesn't go well with samurai-ish in any way. If it is the other way around, like if we have a core class named samurai with elite spec that give stealth/shadowstep/back stab to a samurai, a samurai + thiet, it will work!

    But we don't have a core named samurai, when a thief + warrior, it shouldn't give samurai as a result. I don't opposite a new elite as thief + warrior, give them enhanced armor buff and fight like a warrior to some extend, that will be great, give him another name instead of samurai, it is perfectly fine.

    Cross

  • Vornollo.5182Vornollo.5182 Member ✭✭✭

    Why? Because Thief lacked ranged options beyond 900 Range. Simple as that.
    I don't like it either though, not at all.
    But I know it fills a certain niche, and that's what the entire idea of Elite Specializations revolves around.

    [PUSH] Constant Pressure

  • @Crossaber.8934 said:

    No matter new era or old era, it doesn't help that stealth, back stab, shadowstep from core thief doesn't go well with samurai-ish in any way. If it is the other way around, like if we have a core class named samurai with elite spec that give stealth/shadowstep/back stab to a samurai, a samurai + thiet, it will work!

    But we don't have a core named samurai, when a thief + warrior, it shouldn't give samurai as a result. I don't opposite a new elite as thief + warrior, give them enhanced armor buff and fight like a warrior to some extend, that will be great, give him another name instead of samurai, it is perfectly fine.

    That isn't necessarily true. Thief as a profession is a burst type class in its core due to the initiative system. This works really well with the samurai style of fighting. They tend to use bursting strikes with emphasis on precision and/or speedy strikes. (think about skills like Iai strikes)

    Looking at utilities and weapon skills from core to determine whether or not it will suit the profession undermines the whole point of elite specs which is to give different concepts for the same or similar mechanics. Like how deadeye gives a mark for more focus on range and the use of shadow magic or the necromancer who got a new shroud and shouts with reaper. Functionality is more or less the same, but the approach is different. The same could be said for a Samurai-esque Thief elite spec. In functionality and style it clicks perfectly and would be a new approach to the bursty play-style.

    I personally think if we do get an elite spec like this, I'd hope it would be more condi-focused. Maybe even have an elite or utility skill that allows you to "detonate" your conditions to do burst damage. (Think about a scene when two samurai clash and a few moments past and they just burst all at once and blood comes out from all their injuries.) Not only is pretty much every other great-sword user power focused, but it would help deviate from the cliche samurai archetype and becomes its own thing.

  • zengara.8301zengara.8301 Member ✭✭✭

    @Crossaber.8934 said:

    @Acheron.4576 said:

    @Crossaber.8934 said:
    Thief with shadow step never fit into samurai style, unless you are actually thinking about ninja.

    Samurai is a japanese warrior, they are fast and deadly warrior in heavy armor, they value honor a lot, a thief samurai with stealth and back stab is never any samurai-ish.

    That actually depends on what era of samurai we are talking, and what kind of samurai. For example ronin, which were lordless samurai rarely wore heavy armor and would wear cloth and/or leather. They also were faster than the older era samurai due to their lack of heavy armor.
    Older eras of samurai would focus more on high precision strike in short bursts since they are capable of taking blows and are often weighed down by their armor. Those precision strikes would be focused on hitting points where the opponent is more vulnerable and the armor doesn't cover very well.

    Also most/some samurai often carried more than one sword so it could go either way when it comes to great-sword or sword/sword. If we do get a great-sword though I hope it is a condi-weapon. We have enough power great-swords as it is. Ranger, Warrior, Guardian, Mesmer, Necromancer, etc are all mainly power focused.

    I personally would like something similar to older era samurai in style, but replace the heavy armor with shadow magic. There was a popular defensive ability called Shadow Form that I liked in gw1 and would enjoy seeing return that made all incoming attacks miss at a certain percentage for its duration. Maybe have that replace our steal mechanic and to be used to give us longer periods of safety to burst and escape once we are initiative starved.

    No matter new era or old era, it doesn't help that stealth, back stab, shadowstep from core thief doesn't go well with samurai-ish in any way. If it is the other way around, like if we have a core class named samurai with elite spec that give stealth/shadowstep/back stab to a samurai, a samurai + thiet, it will work!

    But we don't have a core named samurai, when a thief + warrior, it shouldn't give samurai as a result. I don't opposite a new elite as thief + warrior, give them enhanced armor buff and fight like a warrior to some extend, that will be great, give him another name instead of samurai, it is perfectly fine.

    well, the "Samurai" (I really only call it that because I see it as being more tanky) could very well have trait systems that do cancel stealth and buff after, or just removes the stealth but gives stab/reflect/retaliation or something instead of stealth, like with the deadeye that gives you possibilities for using skill 5
    And f1 have been changed for a lot of classes, like scourges, I cant see why thief wouldnt be able to change that.
    I see it as 3 variations, like what they got going on with the weaver atm (dmg, heal or tank)

    Light high dps
    Greatsword weapon that looks like a katana if getting it from the actual specialization like other classes (Yasuo from League of Legends, maybe depends on combo, but primarily short bursts that do require movement and lock on enemy)

    ~not sure how medium tank would look like~ (but maybe uses stealth more offensively, instead of literally just being stealthy and then attack, they can use it for conditions to the enemy)

    Tanky:
    switches stealth to boons, mitigate dmg etc

    A combination of light and tanky would probably make it very interesting to use. Keep in mind, this is not a direct answer to what they should have done, but it is something I would have liked. It would give thief more variation, instead of being, and I quote from above "One shot pony". Deadeye does revolve very heavily on this fact, if you are not a 1 shot pony, you are very close to death.
    This formula for the thief/"samurai" would certainly make wvw more interesting, people wont just avoid thiefs for being annoying 1 shot ponies that cant be chased down. PvP this would give thief more meaning than just jump to the furthest contested point and possibly PvE (again, I do not PvE that often, but cant imagine it being less boring to do a Yasuo move than to snipe)

  • knyy.6427knyy.6427 Member ✭✭

    @zengara.8301 said:
    I dont know, I literally just wanted everything but sniper, since it is boring going from 1 high melee dps class to 1 high ranged dps class.

    Yea you lost me there. I get it, you play wvw where the dmg might be good, but in pve the dmg output of the ranged DPS is mediocre at very best. It is that bad.

    A lot of people wanted to snipe stuff and thieves didn't had that long range option. So it was kind of okay.

    Im not a big fan of it either, but it has something.

    Just hope the next elite spec will be melee again and we get a 2handed weapon or anything as long as it is no offhand weapon, because an offhand weapon only for a new thief spec would be so ridiculous bad (gameplay reason like uses initative instead of CDs, mostly auto attacks, no weapon swap).

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Dear everyone who wants greatsword for Thief: Please don't weeb my favorite profession.

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • Zacchary.6183Zacchary.6183 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2017

    @Asur.9178 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @Asur.9178 said:

    @zengara.8301 said:

    @ZyniX.3589 said:
    If you don't like it that's fine. Everyone isn't supposed to fall in love with every elite spec. Maybe the next thief elite will cater to your taste. I enjoy the Deadeye rifle even if it could use more damage. It does have decent burst and good boon sharing.

    Well, if I have to be 100% transparent, instead of depending on what is written between the lines, it would be cool to know others thoughts are about the snipers.
    And I personally do not think we need more damage :b Most people are experiencing 1 shot kill in WvW and 2-3 shot in SPvP; I would recomend you to watch this youtube video that shows you how to "use" a deadeye to its full potential

    Zerk amulet...nuff said. Any decent player, especially an opposing DD will kitten on it.

    Those pathetic auto damage is a joke. A lb SlB does a better job than this while having more sustain.

    There's a reason montages mean nothing. This is a great example of it. Big numbers mean little.

    Also, none of those players knew how to dodge/reflect/absorb/block.

    Dodging/reflecting/absorbing/blocking means nothing when you fail to notice the Deadeye setting up. And if the Deadeye knows what they are doing, you won't notice them.

    I could break down the entire video for you, but that isn't necessary...so I'll use the very first two kills.

    There's zero reasons for that necro to have not seen the DE running far/their home. He was not in stealth while running there. Hmmmm...I wonder what that could mean. Oh, were you kitten and didn't see it? Okay...pay attention to the sound. There's more than enough sound tells in this game.

    Oh, did you respawn and noticed your node just flipped? I wonder if there's an enemy there....hmmmmmm...sure must have flipped by itself after you just died to a DE. Surely there's no enemy at the point. /s

    DJ reveals you before shooting. The telegraphs are long and big enough for anyone not blind to see and react to it.

    Like I said, anyone can make a montage, especially with low skilled players. Doesn't make that elite spec/build good though. DE may be decent at trash tier PvP and open world PvE (it's a joke), but it's trash in competitive PvP AND hardcore PvE. It is especially bad when using rifle.

    PS: A glass-cannon 1-shot build like this for DD outperforms that 1-shot-1-trick pony DE. Doesn't mean it's good though.

    First Kill: The Deadeye was way out there and nobody in their right mind would go and chase someone 3k units out. The Deadeye also stealthed before he set up behind the point so there was no noticeable movement for the necro to catch. His Mug-traited Mark dealt barely noticeable damage to the Necro and it wasn't until the Deadeye crit for 18k that the Necro panicked. By the time he tried responding, he was put on his kitten by the Deadeye.

    Second Kill: Same kitten again. Necro's fault for trying to use the same strategy, though afterwards the necro knew the Deadeye was camping and brought a friend.

    Third and Fourth Kill: Friend made the same mistake the Necro did and was immediately put on his kitten before the Necro could reach the Deadeye. The Deadeye cast Binding Shadow on the friend which knocked him down just before he was downed by a DJ. The necro was a noob but the friend couldn't have really done much anyways regardless if they had any skill to counter or not. And again, the Deadeye is hitting for 80% of both their health bars in under a second while still having enough ini to pull off another DJ.

    The rest of the game he was staying outside of the skirmishes and putting people on their kitten, again dealing 13k+ to targets already occupied with combat. Not only did he effectively solo-defended a point but by the time the game was already decided he continued to make himself useful by +1ing. He did everything he was supposed to do as a Deadeye and ended up carrying easily.

    And in response to your PS: Apples to oranges, mate.

    • A daredevil can't start a fight with 10-20 shareable (and sometimes permanent) might. With Improv and Fire For Effect, a Deadeye can.
    • A daredevil can't range. A deadeye can with rifle.
    • A daredevil has to go glassy to deal insane damage. A deadeye can go valk/marauder and still maintain a crit rate of ~90% (Silent Scope, Fury, Signet of Agility) while pumping out 15K+ shots.
    • A daredevil has to rely on core Thief for stealthing needs. Deadeye only needs Sniper's Cover and Shadow Meld (maybe Shadow Gust).
    • A daredevil can't reliably spam stolen skills nor do those stolen skills provide much support. A deadeye can spam stolen skills and said skills do provide support in the form of boons (which can be shared through traits) and conditions.
    • A daredevil can't get much out of boon duration stats because it's access to boons is reliant on core thief. A daredevil can get more out of boon duration due to it's large access to boons, most of them gaining increased base duration based on the malice mechanic.

    • A deadeye can't really get into melee combat without going heavy on stealth. A daredevil doesn't really need stealth that much to survive.
    • A deadeye can waste precision due to the sheer amount of non-core Fury access it has and it's 20% crit rate bonus from Silent Scope's Sniper's Cover. A daredevil has to rely on core thief for fury and has no built in bonuses to increase crit rate.
    • A deadeye has to wait a little before bonuses accumulate enough for their damage to reach their max. A daredevil has their few bonuses right away and they can start a fight immediately.
    • A deadeye has to rely mostly on core thief for mobility. A daredevil is arguably the most mobile thing in the game in and out of combat with it's large access to swiftness.
    • A deadeye's stolen skill isn't as impactful as a core thief stolen skill because their utility is confined to boon/condition application. Core thief's stolen skills have a larger variety of utility that is both powerful and effective, even if it is situational.
    • Deadeye and rifle is still buggy. Daredevil is fleshed out. :P

    Also DE isn't a "1-trick pony" but the current thief meta is.

    A good player can succeed with whatever is meta. A great player can succeed with whatever they want.
    [Vial of Salt]
    PSA: Deadeye isn't bad, you're just bad at using it. Out of Date
    These DE tips are still relevant. Out of Date

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 25, 2017

    @zengara.8301 said:
    I would recomend you to watch this youtube video that shows you how to "use" a deadeye to its full potential

    "How to use deadeye to its full potential".
    ...in silver :D

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @Asur.9178 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @Asur.9178 said:

    @zengara.8301 said:

    @ZyniX.3589 said:
    If you don't like it that's fine. Everyone isn't supposed to fall in love with every elite spec. Maybe the next thief elite will cater to your taste. I enjoy the Deadeye rifle even if it could use more damage. It does have decent burst and good boon sharing.

    Well, if I have to be 100% transparent, instead of depending on what is written between the lines, it would be cool to know others thoughts are about the snipers.
    And I personally do not think we need more damage :b Most people are experiencing 1 shot kill in WvW and 2-3 shot in SPvP; I would recomend you to watch this youtube video that shows you how to "use" a deadeye to its full potential

    Zerk amulet...nuff said. Any decent player, especially an opposing DD will kitten on it.

    Those pathetic auto damage is a joke. A lb SlB does a better job than this while having more sustain.

    There's a reason montages mean nothing. This is a great example of it. Big numbers mean little.

    Also, none of those players knew how to dodge/reflect/absorb/block.

    Dodging/reflecting/absorbing/blocking means nothing when you fail to notice the Deadeye setting up. And if the Deadeye knows what they are doing, you won't notice them.

    I could break down the entire video for you, but that isn't necessary...so I'll use the very first two kills.

    There's zero reasons for that necro to have not seen the DE running far/their home. He was not in stealth while running there. Hmmmm...I wonder what that could mean. Oh, were you kitten and didn't see it? Okay...pay attention to the sound. There's more than enough sound tells in this game.

    Oh, did you respawn and noticed your node just flipped? I wonder if there's an enemy there....hmmmmmm...sure must have flipped by itself after you just died to a DE. Surely there's no enemy at the point. /s

    DJ reveals you before shooting. The telegraphs are long and big enough for anyone not blind to see and react to it.

    Like I said, anyone can make a montage, especially with low skilled players. Doesn't make that elite spec/build good though. DE may be decent at trash tier PvP and open world PvE (it's a joke), but it's trash in competitive PvP AND hardcore PvE. It is especially bad when using rifle.

    PS: A glass-cannon 1-shot build like this for DD outperforms that 1-shot-1-trick pony DE. Doesn't mean it's good though.

    First Kill: The Deadeye was way out there and nobody in their right mind would go and chase someone 3k units out. The Deadeye also stealthed before he set up behind the point so there was no noticeable movement for the necro to catch. His Mug-traited Mark dealt barely noticeable damage to the Necro and it wasn't until the Deadeye crit for 18k that the Necro panicked. By the time he tried responding, he was put on his kitten by the Deadeye.

    "dealt barely noticable damage"?? You shouldn't need to be hit with a "mug traited mark" to notice the mark in the first place and the nectro just didn't react for the whole setup, dodging after getting hit with DJ, lmao.

    The thing about DE is that, obviously, it's bursty and CAN work. The problem is that it will work mostly against bad players and that's not the way to rate a spec imo. Explaining that the enemy didn't notice mug-traited mark because it dealt low damage, please.

  • Zacchary.6183Zacchary.6183 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:
    "dealt barely noticable damage"?? You shouldn't need to be hit with a "mug traited mark" to notice the mark in the first place and the nectro just didn't react for the whole setup, dodging after getting hit with DJ, lmao.

    The thing about DE is that, obviously, it's bursty and CAN work. The problem is that it will work mostly against bad players and that's not the way to rate a spec imo. Explaining that the enemy didn't notice mug-traited mark because it dealt low damage, please.

    With a 1 inch health "orb", dealing 8.4% of one's hp will barely put any black on it. And I did mention the necro was a noob. Seeing as how Mug + DJ + Deadly Aim downed them, they were most likely glassy with some vit runes.

    While I do agree with you on most points, players will be downed regardless of their skill level if they get bursted mid-skirmish or by surprise. Unless the enemy team coordinates to keep pressure on the Deadeye, this will not change. Also it would help if the Deadeye knew what they were doing.

    A good player can succeed with whatever is meta. A great player can succeed with whatever they want.
    [Vial of Salt]
    PSA: Deadeye isn't bad, you're just bad at using it. Out of Date
    These DE tips are still relevant. Out of Date

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Asur.9178 said:

    @zengara.8301 said:

    @ZyniX.3589 said:
    If you don't like it that's fine. Everyone isn't supposed to fall in love with every elite spec. Maybe the next thief elite will cater to your taste. I enjoy the Deadeye rifle even if it could use more damage. It does have decent burst and good boon sharing.

    Well, if I have to be 100% transparent, instead of depending on what is written between the lines, it would be cool to know others thoughts are about the snipers.
    And I personally do not think we need more damage :b Most people are experiencing 1 shot kill in WvW and 2-3 shot in SPvP; I would recomend you to watch this youtube video that shows you how to "use" a deadeye to its full potential

    Zerk amulet...nuff said. Any decent player, especially an opposing DD will kitten on it.

    Those pathetic auto damage is a joke. A lb SlB does a better job than this while having more sustain.

    There's a reason montages mean nothing. This is a great example of it. Big numbers mean little.

    Also, none of those players knew how to dodge/reflect/absorb/block.

    Minor point, but this wasn't a montage, so while montages often mean nothing this is worth a little more than that. Did you actually watch the video?

    Your other points are valid tho.

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zengara.8301 said:
    yeah, that part was very subjective, I believe that the "samurai thief" class would have more depht, even if saying the same words as the snipers from shadows order, other might believe otherwise, really does not matter in the end since it is very subjective.

    My focus point was the reasoning for choosing sniper, since everyone else since HoT (Even WP I think) wanted a sniper. The primary reason for choosing a frontliner was of cause because how much more worth the thiefs could be in different areas of the game.

    You're not looking at this from a game design point of view. You're looking at it from a this is my preference, this would be cool, I'd be more interested in this point of view. What does a samurai give the thief that it doesn't already have? They can use sword. They can use staff. But the long range options for thieves have always been lacklustre.

    The purpose of elite specs is to plug holes. To give people a new way to play the class. Creativity in game creation works without the boundaries of what you need to advance the game.

  • zengara.8301zengara.8301 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @zengara.8301 said:
    I would recomend you to watch this youtube video that shows you how to "use" a deadeye to its full potential

    "How to use deadeye to its full potential".
    ...in silver :D

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @Asur.9178 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @Asur.9178 said:

    @zengara.8301 said:

    @ZyniX.3589 said:
    If you don't like it that's fine. Everyone isn't supposed to fall in love with every elite spec. Maybe the next thief elite will cater to your taste. I enjoy the Deadeye rifle even if it could use more damage. It does have decent burst and good boon sharing.

    Well, if I have to be 100% transparent, instead of depending on what is written between the lines, it would be cool to know others thoughts are about the snipers.
    And I personally do not think we need more damage :b Most people are experiencing 1 shot kill in WvW and 2-3 shot in SPvP; I would recomend you to watch this youtube video that shows you how to "use" a deadeye to its full potential

    Zerk amulet...nuff said. Any decent player, especially an opposing DD will kitten on it.

    Those pathetic auto damage is a joke. A lb SlB does a better job than this while having more sustain.

    There's a reason montages mean nothing. This is a great example of it. Big numbers mean little.

    Also, none of those players knew how to dodge/reflect/absorb/block.

    Dodging/reflecting/absorbing/blocking means nothing when you fail to notice the Deadeye setting up. And if the Deadeye knows what they are doing, you won't notice them.

    I could break down the entire video for you, but that isn't necessary...so I'll use the very first two kills.

    There's zero reasons for that necro to have not seen the DE running far/their home. He was not in stealth while running there. Hmmmm...I wonder what that could mean. Oh, were you kitten and didn't see it? Okay...pay attention to the sound. There's more than enough sound tells in this game.

    Oh, did you respawn and noticed your node just flipped? I wonder if there's an enemy there....hmmmmmm...sure must have flipped by itself after you just died to a DE. Surely there's no enemy at the point. /s

    DJ reveals you before shooting. The telegraphs are long and big enough for anyone not blind to see and react to it.

    Like I said, anyone can make a montage, especially with low skilled players. Doesn't make that elite spec/build good though. DE may be decent at trash tier PvP and open world PvE (it's a joke), but it's trash in competitive PvP AND hardcore PvE. It is especially bad when using rifle.

    PS: A glass-cannon 1-shot build like this for DD outperforms that 1-shot-1-trick pony DE. Doesn't mean it's good though.

    First Kill: The Deadeye was way out there and nobody in their right mind would go and chase someone 3k units out. The Deadeye also stealthed before he set up behind the point so there was no noticeable movement for the necro to catch. His Mug-traited Mark dealt barely noticeable damage to the Necro and it wasn't until the Deadeye crit for 18k that the Necro panicked. By the time he tried responding, he was put on his kitten by the Deadeye.

    "dealt barely noticable damage"?? You shouldn't need to be hit with a "mug traited mark" to notice the mark in the first place and the nectro just didn't react for the whole setup, dodging after getting hit with DJ, lmao.

    The thing about DE is that, obviously, it's bursty and CAN work. The problem is that it will work mostly against bad players and that's not the way to rate a spec imo. Explaining that the enemy didn't notice mug-traited mark because it dealt low damage, please.

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @zengara.8301 said:
    yeah, that part was very subjective, I believe that the "samurai thief" class would have more depht, even if saying the same words as the snipers from shadows order, other might believe otherwise, really does not matter in the end since it is very subjective.

    My focus point was the reasoning for choosing sniper, since everyone else since HoT (Even WP I think) wanted a sniper. The primary reason for choosing a frontliner was of cause because how much more worth the thiefs could be in different areas of the game.

    You're not looking at this from a game design point of view. You're looking at it from a this is my preference, this would be cool, I'd be more interested in this point of view. What does a samurai give the thief that it doesn't already have? They can use sword. They can use staff. But the long range options for thieves have always been lacklustre.

    The purpose of elite specs is to plug holes. To give people a new way to play the class. Creativity in game creation works without the boundaries of what you need to advance the game.

    No, it is the other way around. A-Net stated several times that it was not to give purpose or plug holes, but just because they find it interesting in several of their videos, and also I believe ive read it on these forum chats as well.
    Beside, that second part is the one that is not subjective "looking at it from a this is my preference" as you wrote. As mentioned above, only part of the game that does benefit thief for having sniper traits, is roaming in WvW. All the other modes at the very least suffer from it, you could argue that SPvP does not, but others on higher tiers do highly recommend not going Dead Eye if you are serious about SPvP.

    In short, deadeye is simply worse in every game mode beside roaming 1v1 since you are just ranged thief with less stealth and runaway tactics (if you are going after best builds, you can of cause still make 100 different builds, but it would just mean you lack other stuff, I only write this because I might need to repeat this, even though it should be fairly obvious and should not require a respond)
    I should also make this very clear:
    Samurai would plug most holes in most game modes, ONLY reason why they made snipers, is because people really wanted a rifle, they simply did it to cater to the fans (also a bit led by woodenpotatoes when he wrote it, more people wrote it on the forums, until it kinda came up every 3 threads, which is kinda annoying.....personally not a fan of using once position to change a game, specially if it is just for something that wont really benifit the game or make it more interesting)

  • oopsie, someone barrely touch deadeye is trying to make point over here
    If you play correctly, Deadeye rifle by far is the most stealthiest spec that thief could have. By utilizing this aspect, you could n0scope everything that move and killable on PvE, sPvP, and WvWvW. Stop rolling and start spamming stealth, that's how you utilize Deadeye properly

    Also there is no "samurai" type of weapon gw 2 btw (probably one of the greatsword mode, but it still count as greatsword, not a katana or smth)

  • zengara.8301zengara.8301 Member ✭✭✭

    @Barzah.8019 said:
    oopsie, someone barrely touch deadeye is trying to make point over here
    If you play correctly, Deadeye rifle by far is the most stealthiest spec that thief could have. By utilizing this aspect, you could n0scope everything that move and killable on PvE, sPvP, and WvWvW. Stop rolling and start spamming stealth, that's how you utilize Deadeye properly

    Also there is no "samurai" type of weapon gw 2 btw (probably one of the greatsword mode, but it still count as greatsword, not a katana or smth)

    Well based on weapon....if you just look at thief alone that is not really a reason. Daredevil is basically Wukong or monk, before that staffs were used for long range only. There are probably a lot of examples in the game.
    As mentioned, Deadeye rifle is bad for most if not all matches on high tier, of cause anyone can again make a tank thief and go into PvP, but that does not make them effective unless if carried or opponent decided to do something like that as well. WvW roaming is the only option, and there you have to be lucky not to meet a group of people, you can of cause go full stealth utillity, but it wont hold as much stealth as others like DD or normal thief, even if you do go all out stealth, it will decrease your dmg by A LOT. As mentioned above, only "noobs" use shadow refuge, and there is a reason why that person said that, you lose a lot, and it will rarely help you, beside the fact that "you only play to stop others from playing", ganking people who are going to their wvw group while having enough stealth to get out if that person was actually also wanting to gank (a mesmer or something)
    I didnt mention the PvE scene yet, because it is obvious, you either die by AOE, since you are locked in a position, or it is a fight where you really never needed anything to fight with more than having a lvl 30...w/e weapon, like Tequatle. But for fractals, raids etc it is a lost cause.
    You can come up with a lot of niche moment that might have happend to you in the past 4 years, but it wont neglect that this class apparently is somewhat of a waste if you think about usability.....it is fun

  • Grimheart.2853Grimheart.2853 Member ✭✭✭

    Edgy out-of-place weeb instead of an edgy completely authentic sniper? No, thanks.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2017

    @zengara.8301 said:
    Well, if I have to be 100% transparent, instead of depending on what is written between the lines, it would be cool to know others thoughts are about the snipers.
    And I personally do not think we need more damage :b Most people are experiencing 1 shot kill in WvW and 2-3 shot in SPvP; I would recomend you to watch this youtube video that shows you how to "use" a deadeye to its full potential

    Stopped watching when I saw the necro putting all 4 marks at his feet (can be negated with one single dodge). What is this? Bronze T3?

    And of course he did not notice:

    • he got marked
    • the super obvious telegraph of DJ (soundeffect and red beam)

    Players eating a DJ with a full endurance bar are the same players that are eating a Grave Digger with a full endurance bar. At this "skill"-level there is no room for balance talks.

  • zengara.8301zengara.8301 Member ✭✭✭

    yeaaah, thats very subjective again. I personally find it the other way around. Though the out of place part is a good touch, since I personally havent dwelled into that in the comments. But I probably do not need to dwell way into it, because most who wanted a sniper usually got the response of it being way out of place, that the scope would not make any sense in this fantasy game, and why even have a stealthy ranger etc.
    Furhter undeniable truth would be that gw1 showcased "samurais", hairdo and all:

  • zengara.8301zengara.8301 Member ✭✭✭

    @KrHome.1920 said:

    @zengara.8301 said:
    Well, if I have to be 100% transparent, instead of depending on what is written between the lines, it would be cool to know others thoughts are about the snipers.
    And I personally do not think we need more damage :b Most people are experiencing 1 shot kill in WvW and 2-3 shot in SPvP; I would recomend you to watch this youtube video that shows you how to "use" a deadeye to its full potential

    Stopped watching when I saw the necro putting all 4 marks at his feet (can be negated with one single dodge). What is this? Bronze T3?

    And of course he did not notice:

    • he got marked
    • the super obvious telegraph of DJ (soundeffect and red beam)

    Players eating a DJ with a full endurance bar are the same players that are eating a Grave Digger with a full endurance bar. At this "skill"-level there is no room for balance talks.

    Just to stop the responses of this video, this video was posted literally 10 days after Path of Fire came out, which of cause indicates that he must have played vs these opponents 10 or less days after every class came out, most likely before the 10 days, since I find it hard to imagine recording, editing and posting on the same day

  • Crossaber.8934Crossaber.8934 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2017

    @Acheron.4576 said:

    @Crossaber.8934 said:

    No matter new era or old era, it doesn't help that stealth, back stab, shadowstep from core thief doesn't go well with samurai-ish in any way. If it is the other way around, like if we have a core class named samurai with elite spec that give stealth/shadowstep/back stab to a samurai, a samurai + thiet, it will work!

    But we don't have a core named samurai, when a thief + warrior, it shouldn't give samurai as a result. I don't opposite a new elite as thief + warrior, give them enhanced armor buff and fight like a warrior to some extend, that will be great, give him another name instead of samurai, it is perfectly fine.

    That isn't necessarily true. Thief as a profession is a burst type class in its core due to the initiative system. This works really well with the samurai style of fighting. They tend to use bursting strikes with emphasis on precision and/or speedy strikes. (think about skills like Iai strikes)

    Looking at utilities and weapon skills from core to determine whether or not it will suit the profession undermines the whole point of elite specs which is to give different concepts for the same or similar mechanics. Like how deadeye gives a mark for more focus on range and the use of shadow magic or the necromancer who got a new shroud and shouts with reaper. Functionality is more or less the same, but the approach is different. The same could be said for a Samurai-esque Thief elite spec. In functionality and style it clicks perfectly and would be a new approach to the bursty play-style.

    I personally think if we do get an elite spec like this, I'd hope it would be more condi-focused. Maybe even have an elite or utility skill that allows you to "detonate" your conditions to do burst damage. (Think about a scene when two samurai clash and a few moments past and they just burst all at once and blood comes out from all their injuries.) Not only is pretty much every other great-sword user power focused, but it would help deviate from the cliche samurai archetype and becomes its own thing.

    What you described sound more or less like an Ninja instead of Samurai. Samurai is best made as elite for Rev or War, while ninja, a more condi dps focused elite spec is perfect match with thief. Samurai don't stealth, but stealth is very thief-like and ninja-ish mechanic.

    Since you mentioned Deadeye, it has different steal mechanic, and different play style, but a deadeye still require a lot of stealth in order to be effective, it is still very thief-ish. To make a thief into a samurai, unless lockout self stealth as a samurai, with a heavy reworked samurai mechanic like reduce damage received, some block etc. And it seems very unlikely....

    Cross

  • Crossaber.8934Crossaber.8934 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 29, 2017

    @zengara.8301 said:
    yeaaah, thats very subjective again. I personally find it the other way around. Though the out of place part is a good touch, since I personally havent dwelled into that in the comments. But I probably do not need to dwell way into it, because most who wanted a sniper usually got the response of it being way out of place, that the scope would not make any sense in this fantasy game, and why even have a stealthy ranger etc.
    Furhter undeniable truth would be that gw1 showcased "samurais", hairdo and all:

    It is actually reminds me Ninja instead of Samurai. I always think he is a ninja/assassin since faction.

    Cross

  • zengara.8301zengara.8301 Member ✭✭✭

    @Crossaber.8934 said:

    @Acheron.4576 said:

    @Crossaber.8934 said:

    No matter new era or old era, it doesn't help that stealth, back stab, shadowstep from core thief doesn't go well with samurai-ish in any way. If it is the other way around, like if we have a core class named samurai with elite spec that give stealth/shadowstep/back stab to a samurai, a samurai + thiet, it will work!

    But we don't have a core named samurai, when a thief + warrior, it shouldn't give samurai as a result. I don't opposite a new elite as thief + warrior, give them enhanced armor buff and fight like a warrior to some extend, that will be great, give him another name instead of samurai, it is perfectly fine.

    That isn't necessarily true. Thief as a profession is a burst type class in its core due to the initiative system. This works really well with the samurai style of fighting. They tend to use bursting strikes with emphasis on precision and/or speedy strikes. (think about skills like Iai strikes)

    Looking at utilities and weapon skills from core to determine whether or not it will suit the profession undermines the whole point of elite specs which is to give different concepts for the same or similar mechanics. Like how deadeye gives a mark for more focus on range and the use of shadow magic or the necromancer who got a new shroud and shouts with reaper. Functionality is more or less the same, but the approach is different. The same could be said for a Samurai-esque Thief elite spec. In functionality and style it clicks perfectly and would be a new approach to the bursty play-style.

    I personally think if we do get an elite spec like this, I'd hope it would be more condi-focused. Maybe even have an elite or utility skill that allows you to "detonate" your conditions to do burst damage. (Think about a scene when two samurai clash and a few moments past and they just burst all at once and blood comes out from all their injuries.) Not only is pretty much every other great-sword user power focused, but it would help deviate from the cliche samurai archetype and becomes its own thing.

    What you described sound more or less like an Ninja instead of Samurai. Samurai is best made as elite for Rev or War, while ninja, a more condi dps focused elite spec is perfect match with thief. Samurai don't stealth, but stealth is very thief-like and ninja-ish mechanic.

    Since you mentioned Deadeye, it has different steal mechanic, and different play style, but a deadeye still require a lot of stealth in order to be effective, it is still very thief-ish. To make a thief into a samurai, unless lockout self stealth as a samurai, with a heavy reworked samurai mechanic like reduce damage received, some block etc. And it seems very unlikely....

    Just wanted you to read what I wrote about this subject, as mentioned above. Though there are already classes like ranger that have been totally reworked from a high dmg "pew pew" class to the beast healer in the game, I am not a programmer, but based on a objective stand of what have been changed, it doesnt seem like a huge change as these other classes, some "like necro" only had a f1 on suddenly got up to f5 now, the rest is a copy paste that again do very much touch on your response:

    well, the "Samurai" (I really only call it that because I see it as being more tanky) could very well have trait systems that do cancel stealth and buff after, or just removes the stealth but gives stab/reflect/retaliation or something instead of stealth, like with the deadeye that gives you possibilities for using skill 5
    And f1 have been changed for a lot of classes, like scourges, I cant see why thief wouldnt be able to change that.
    I see it as 3 variations, like what they got going on with the weaver atm (dmg, heal or tank)

    Light high dps
    Greatsword weapon that looks like a katana if getting it from the actual specialization like other classes (Yasuo from League of Legends, maybe depends on combo, but primarily short bursts that do require movement and lock on enemy)

    ~not sure how medium tank would look like~ (but maybe uses stealth more offensively, instead of literally just being stealthy and then attack, they can use it for conditions to the enemy)

    Tanky:
    switches stealth to boons, mitigate dmg etc

    A combination of light and tanky would probably make it very interesting to use. Keep in mind, this is not a direct answer to what they should have done, but it is something I would have liked. It would give thief more variation, instead of being, and I quote from above "One shot pony". Deadeye does revolve very heavily on this fact, if you are not a 1 shot pony, you are very close to death.
    This formula for the thief/"samurai" would certainly make wvw more interesting, people wont just avoid thiefs for being annoying 1 shot ponies that cant be chased down. PvP this would give thief more meaning than just jump to the furthest contested point and possibly PvE (again, I do not PvE that often, but cant imagine it being less boring to do a Yasuo move than to snipe)

  • Crossaber.8934Crossaber.8934 Member ✭✭✭

    @zengara.8301 said:

    @Crossaber.8934 said:

    @Acheron.4576 said:

    @Crossaber.8934 said:

    No matter new era or old era, it doesn't help that stealth, back stab, shadowstep from core thief doesn't go well with samurai-ish in any way. If it is the other way around, like if we have a core class named samurai with elite spec that give stealth/shadowstep/back stab to a samurai, a samurai + thiet, it will work!

    But we don't have a core named samurai, when a thief + warrior, it shouldn't give samurai as a result. I don't opposite a new elite as thief + warrior, give them enhanced armor buff and fight like a warrior to some extend, that will be great, give him another name instead of samurai, it is perfectly fine.

    That isn't necessarily true. Thief as a profession is a burst type class in its core due to the initiative system. This works really well with the samurai style of fighting. They tend to use bursting strikes with emphasis on precision and/or speedy strikes. (think about skills like Iai strikes)

    Looking at utilities and weapon skills from core to determine whether or not it will suit the profession undermines the whole point of elite specs which is to give different concepts for the same or similar mechanics. Like how deadeye gives a mark for more focus on range and the use of shadow magic or the necromancer who got a new shroud and shouts with reaper. Functionality is more or less the same, but the approach is different. The same could be said for a Samurai-esque Thief elite spec. In functionality and style it clicks perfectly and would be a new approach to the bursty play-style.

    I personally think if we do get an elite spec like this, I'd hope it would be more condi-focused. Maybe even have an elite or utility skill that allows you to "detonate" your conditions to do burst damage. (Think about a scene when two samurai clash and a few moments past and they just burst all at once and blood comes out from all their injuries.) Not only is pretty much every other great-sword user power focused, but it would help deviate from the cliche samurai archetype and becomes its own thing.

    What you described sound more or less like an Ninja instead of Samurai. Samurai is best made as elite for Rev or War, while ninja, a more condi dps focused elite spec is perfect match with thief. Samurai don't stealth, but stealth is very thief-like and ninja-ish mechanic.

    Since you mentioned Deadeye, it has different steal mechanic, and different play style, but a deadeye still require a lot of stealth in order to be effective, it is still very thief-ish. To make a thief into a samurai, unless lockout self stealth as a samurai, with a heavy reworked samurai mechanic like reduce damage received, some block etc. And it seems very unlikely....

    Just wanted you to read what I wrote about this subject, as mentioned above. Though there are already classes like ranger that have been totally reworked from a high dmg "pew pew" class to the beast healer in the game, I am not a programmer, but based on a objective stand of what have been changed, it doesnt seem like a huge change as these other classes, some "like necro" only had a f1 on suddenly got up to f5 now, the rest is a copy paste that again do very much touch on your response:

    well, the "Samurai" (I really only call it that because I see it as being more tanky) could very well have trait systems that do cancel stealth and buff after, or just removes the stealth but gives stab/reflect/retaliation or something instead of stealth, like with the deadeye that gives you possibilities for using skill 5
    And f1 have been changed for a lot of classes, like scourges, I cant see why thief wouldnt be able to change that.
    I see it as 3 variations, like what they got going on with the weaver atm (dmg, heal or tank)

    Light high dps
    Greatsword weapon that looks like a katana if getting it from the actual specialization like other classes (Yasuo from League of Legends, maybe depends on combo, but primarily short bursts that do require movement and lock on enemy)

    ~not sure how medium tank would look like~ (but maybe uses stealth more offensively, instead of literally just being stealthy and then attack, they can use it for conditions to the enemy)

    Tanky:
    switches stealth to boons, mitigate dmg etc

    A combination of light and tanky would probably make it very interesting to use. Keep in mind, this is not a direct answer to what they should have done, but it is something I would have liked. It would give thief more variation, instead of being, and I quote from above "One shot pony". Deadeye does revolve very heavily on this fact, if you are not a 1 shot pony, you are very close to death.
    This formula for the thief/"samurai" would certainly make wvw more interesting, people wont just avoid thiefs for being annoying 1 shot ponies that cant be chased down. PvP this would give thief more meaning than just jump to the furthest contested point and possibly PvE (again, I do not PvE that often, but cant imagine it being less boring to do a Yasuo move than to snipe)

    I understand your point of view, if Samurai is made like "Berserker", which is a "Samurai mode" to thief, there are still out of samurai mode that allow a "Samurai" to use skill to go stealth (besides using finisher), it is a very unhonorable action for being a samurai. Unless the mechanic is not a mode, instead it block out all stealth skill for the thief to be a Samurai. Otherwise, you can name such a new thief elite whatever you want but samurai.

    Cross

    1. you don't need to be a "tank" in order to properly use deadeye
    2. stop trying to jam "daredevil" tactic to DE since both has different way of play
    3. you can mark some random guy and farm malice for a bit, then use DJ on the other guy that doesn't pay attention to u
    4. since rifle spec got that annoying "out of range" and "obstructed" debug, i suggest not to relying on DJ all the time. Try switching between deadly aim and triple tap for flushing your enemy while forcing them to use their precious cooldown skill.
  • zengara.8301zengara.8301 Member ✭✭✭

    @Crossaber.8934 said:

    @zengara.8301 said:
    yeaaah, thats very subjective again. I personally find it the other way around. Though the out of place part is a good touch, since I personally havent dwelled into that in the comments. But I probably do not need to dwell way into it, because most who wanted a sniper usually got the response of it being way out of place, that the scope would not make any sense in this fantasy game, and why even have a stealthy ranger etc.
    Furhter undeniable truth would be that gw1 showcased "samurais", hairdo and all:

    It is actually reminds me Ninja instead of Samurai. I always think he is a ninja/assassin since faction.

    ohh sorry, posted actually time on video, but the whole video came up. It was actually the people bursting in (time; 1:23) I was thinking about, I very much agree that he would be a ninja

  • Cynz.9437Cynz.9437 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Anyone remember commando April joke? Well we got April joke for elite spec. Instead of giving thief another role, they gave the joke.

    GW is P2Win. We are always lied to.

  • Zacchary.6183Zacchary.6183 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cynz.9437 said:
    Anyone remember commando April joke? Well we got April joke for elite spec. Instead of giving thief another role, they gave the joke.

    Commando was overpowered though.

    A good player can succeed with whatever is meta. A great player can succeed with whatever they want.
    [Vial of Salt]
    PSA: Deadeye isn't bad, you're just bad at using it. Out of Date
    These DE tips are still relevant. Out of Date

  • @Zacchary.6183 said:

    @Cynz.9437 said:
    Anyone remember commando April joke? Well we got April joke for elite spec. Instead of giving thief another role, they gave the joke.

    Commando was overpowered though.

    I still want the costumes they used and the ability to call in an air strike.

    If Life gives you lemons, put the lemons in a sack and beat up Life for giving you lemons in the first place.

  • Leo G.4501Leo G.4501 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Asur.9178 said:

    @zengara.8301 said:

    @ZyniX.3589 said:
    If you don't like it that's fine. Everyone isn't supposed to fall in love with every elite spec. Maybe the next thief elite will cater to your taste. I enjoy the Deadeye rifle even if it could use more damage. It does have decent burst and good boon sharing.

    Well, if I have to be 100% transparent, instead of depending on what is written between the lines, it would be cool to know others thoughts are about the snipers.
    And I personally do not think we need more damage :b Most people are experiencing 1 shot kill in WvW and 2-3 shot in SPvP; I would recomend you to watch this youtube video that shows you how to "use" a deadeye to its full potential

    Zerk amulet...nuff said. Any decent player, especially an opposing DD will kitten on it.

    Those pathetic auto damage is a joke. A lb SlB does a better job than this while having more sustain.

    There's a reason montages mean nothing. This is a great example of it. Big numbers mean little.

    Also, none of those players knew how to dodge/reflect/absorb/block.

    That wasn't a montage.

  • Why? Because I like the feel of it. Because I enjoy the playstyle. Because I am the most under geared member of my guild and still come out no less than 3rd on DPS meter in parties.

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