Every SPVP related nerf should be applied to WvW — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Every SPVP related nerf should be applied to WvW

Nuka Cola.8520Nuka Cola.8520 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited October 23, 2017 in WvW

Because its PVP, and with food etc the power creep is just too strong. It doesn't make sense letting weapons such as Revs staff completely unbalanced with insane burst when it was toned down (for good reasons) in spvp a while back. In spvp you pvp. In wvw you pvp. So why is balanced split between the two???

Comments

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ya so many power revs running around crushing people with staff 5 in wvw...

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Nuka Cola.8520Nuka Cola.8520 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Ya so many power revs running around crushing people with staff 5 in wvw...

    You don't get the point. The staff was an example. I'm talking about every nerf/balance weapons/utitlies/traits have received in spvp, should be applied to wvw.

    And since you mention the staff sarcastically, i dunno if all you do is zerg or wut, but the large majority of revs i play against while roaming use the Staff...

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nuka Cola.8520 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Ya so many power revs running around crushing people with staff 5 in wvw...

    You don't get the point. The staff was an example. I'm talking about every nerf/balance weapons/utitlies/traits have received in spvp, should be applied to wvw.

    And since you mention the staff sarcastically, i dunno if all you do is zerg or wut, but the large majority of revs i play against while roaming use the Staff...

    Of the 1 in 30 players using rev in wvw, most of them are probably not even hitting 5k with surge of the mists. But sure, cut the damage in half so there is no answer to thieves and mesmers...

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Nuka Cola.8520Nuka Cola.8520 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Nuka Cola.8520 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Ya so many power revs running around crushing people with staff 5 in wvw...

    You don't get the point. The staff was an example. I'm talking about every nerf/balance weapons/utitlies/traits have received in spvp, should be applied to wvw.

    And since you mention the staff sarcastically, i dunno if all you do is zerg or wut, but the large majority of revs i play against while roaming use the Staff...

    Of the 1 in 30 players using rev in wvw, most of them are probably not even hitting 5k with surge of the mists. But sure, cut the damage in half so there is no answer to thieves and mesmers...

    And who said mes/thief nerfs wouldn't be a thing? If it was nerfed in spvp, it was too powerful. A "too powerful" skill(s) become even more OP in wvw. That shouldn't be a thing.

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nuka Cola.8520 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Nuka Cola.8520 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Ya so many power revs running around crushing people with staff 5 in wvw...

    You don't get the point. The staff was an example. I'm talking about every nerf/balance weapons/utitlies/traits have received in spvp, should be applied to wvw.

    And since you mention the staff sarcastically, i dunno if all you do is zerg or wut, but the large majority of revs i play against while roaming use the Staff...

    Of the 1 in 30 players using rev in wvw, most of them are probably not even hitting 5k with surge of the mists. But sure, cut the damage in half so there is no answer to thieves and mesmers...

    And who said mes/thief nerfs wouldn't be a thing? If it was nerfed in spvp, it was too powerful. A "too powerful" skill(s) become even more OP in wvw. That shouldn't be a thing.

    Here I help you not get wrecked by this skill,
    Trait: Mirror of Anguish

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Israel.7056Israel.7056 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2017

    Because spvp and WvW are completely different in terms of stats available. I mean imagine if they allowed trailblazer scourges in SPvP. Or trailblazer anything really. That'd be a completely different game mode.

  • Nuka Cola.8520Nuka Cola.8520 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Nuka Cola.8520 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Nuka Cola.8520 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Ya so many power revs running around crushing people with staff 5 in wvw...

    You don't get the point. The staff was an example. I'm talking about every nerf/balance weapons/utitlies/traits have received in spvp, should be applied to wvw.

    And since you mention the staff sarcastically, i dunno if all you do is zerg or wut, but the large majority of revs i play against while roaming use the Staff...

    Of the 1 in 30 players using rev in wvw, most of them are probably not even hitting 5k with surge of the mists. But sure, cut the damage in half so there is no answer to thieves and mesmers...

    And who said mes/thief nerfs wouldn't be a thing? If it was nerfed in spvp, it was too powerful. A "too powerful" skill(s) become even more OP in wvw. That shouldn't be a thing.

    Here I help you not get wrecked by this skill,
    Trait: Mirror of Anguish

    And you still don't get it, or simply main Rev and want it as op as possible. You don't need to trait anything, use blink and that's it, but that wasn't even the point. You tunnel vision Rev's staff as if Staff 5 is the only broken skill in wvw lmao.

  • Nuka Cola.8520Nuka Cola.8520 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Israel.7056 said:
    Because spvp and WvW are completely different in terms of stats available. I mean imagine if they allowed trailblazer scourges in SPvP. Or trailblazer anything really. That'd be a completely different game mode.

    Yeah, wvw is much more unbalanced with additional stats, runes etc. So at least apply spvp nerfs so wvw gets a little more balanced? Or is wvw supposed to be a mess (balance wise) for the years to come?

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2017

    @Nuka Cola.8520 said:
    Because its PVP, and with food etc the power creep is just too strong. It doesn't make sense letting weapons such as Revs staff completely unbalanced with insane burst when it was toned down (for good reasons) in spvp a while back. In spvp you pvp. In wvw you pvp. So why is balanced split between the two???

    "Every SPVP related nerf should be applied to WvW"

    I completely agree. Whenever i see a PVP Only nerf, i do not take Anet seriously to take serious action. Seriousness is making no exceptions.....**.PERIOD!!. **

    "Your Action Must Be Taken Seriously, With No Exceptions, If Not, You Will Be Put To Shame"
    "Exceptions Are Excuses To Not Take Matters Serious"

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nuka Cola.8520 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Nuka Cola.8520 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Nuka Cola.8520 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Ya so many power revs running around crushing people with staff 5 in wvw...

    You don't get the point. The staff was an example. I'm talking about every nerf/balance weapons/utitlies/traits have received in spvp, should be applied to wvw.

    And since you mention the staff sarcastically, i dunno if all you do is zerg or wut, but the large majority of revs i play against while roaming use the Staff...

    Of the 1 in 30 players using rev in wvw, most of them are probably not even hitting 5k with surge of the mists. But sure, cut the damage in half so there is no answer to thieves and mesmers...

    And who said mes/thief nerfs wouldn't be a thing? If it was nerfed in spvp, it was too powerful. A "too powerful" skill(s) become even more OP in wvw. That shouldn't be a thing.

    Here I help you not get wrecked by this skill,
    Trait: Mirror of Anguish

    And you still don't get it, or simply main Rev and want it as op as possible. You don't need to trait anything, use blink and that's it, but that wasn't even the point. You tunnel vision Rev's staff as if Staff 5 is the only broken skill in wvw lmao.

    Ok lets try this differently,

    How many pvp only changes would affect your play if brought to wvw,
    aka, List everything You, for your current builds, are willing to give up.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • zinkz.7045zinkz.7045 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2017

    Erm, maybe think it through it a bit, they are two different game modes with different balance requirements, so what is strong (and gets nerfed) in sPVP is often actually weak in WvW (and vice versa), e.g - look at engy for much of the game, for the first 15 months it was nerfed nearly every balance patch because of sPvP, meanwhile in WvW it was not even recruited by fight orientated guilds (large scale) because it offered nothing so actually needed buffs/design changes for WvW.

    What WvW actually needs is balance changes made for WvW, but apparently this is too much work for Anet, meanwhile there are other games that have a balance patch every month, with often a minor patch in between on top of that.

  • xDudisx.5914xDudisx.5914 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2017

    Not splitting skills would make it harder for anet to do class balance. A perfect balance for 5v5 conquest can make several builds and skills be useless in wvw and pve. They would also think twice before nerfing op specs in spvp for the fear of hurting wvw.

    A skill can be be OP in conquest mode where people are forced to sit on points and totally useless in wvw at the same time.

    Anet started splitting skills because the community asked for it.

  • Nuka Cola.8520Nuka Cola.8520 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Nuka Cola.8520 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Nuka Cola.8520 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Nuka Cola.8520 said:

    @Justine.6351 said:
    Ya so many power revs running around crushing people with staff 5 in wvw...

    You don't get the point. The staff was an example. I'm talking about every nerf/balance weapons/utitlies/traits have received in spvp, should be applied to wvw.

    And since you mention the staff sarcastically, i dunno if all you do is zerg or wut, but the large majority of revs i play against while roaming use the Staff...

    Of the 1 in 30 players using rev in wvw, most of them are probably not even hitting 5k with surge of the mists. But sure, cut the damage in half so there is no answer to thieves and mesmers...

    And who said mes/thief nerfs wouldn't be a thing? If it was nerfed in spvp, it was too powerful. A "too powerful" skill(s) become even more OP in wvw. That shouldn't be a thing.

    Here I help you not get wrecked by this skill,
    Trait: Mirror of Anguish

    And you still don't get it, or simply main Rev and want it as op as possible. You don't need to trait anything, use blink and that's it, but that wasn't even the point. You tunnel vision Rev's staff as if Staff 5 is the only broken skill in wvw lmao.

    Ok lets try this differently,

    How many pvp only changes would affect your play if brought to wvw,
    aka, List everything You, for your current builds, are willing to give up.

    Give up? So a balanced skill is supposed to be so bad that i'm supposed to give it up? What are you on???

  • Jana.6831Jana.6831 Member ✭✭✭

    The damage in pvp is calculated differently since they removed the stats from the traitlines. They have been different game modes since then.
    It was different before that patch, wvw, pve and pvp were about the same and one balance for all worked back then.

    the gentle art of making enemies.

  • BeepBoopBop.5403BeepBoopBop.5403 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 23, 2017

    Nah. Mostly because if non hammer power rev gets another nerf, it just means there's no hope for his game.

    You sure you're not just mad you got nuked by a staff 5 when you could've blinked, distorted, mirage mirrored, mirror of anguished, phase retreated, or evaded?

    While we're at it can revenant get 15k instant bursts like power Mesmer GS2 F1? We save 50 of our energy for a measly 4-5k Equilibrium burst, and seems like you want to nerf that to 2-3k by bringing over PvP changes.

    TLDR: another person is mad that people are still playing power rev, wants it to get nerfed instead of learning to play 2 years after class release, uses PvP skill splitting as an excuse.

  • A lot of sPvP nerfs exist because of the serious gear differences (level 78 exotics all around) that make some skills way better than others. That's totally irrelevant in WvW.

    You also have the amulet restriction, and many nerfs around that restriction - I.E., a lot of power burst was nerfed hard in sPvP since you couldn't build naturally tanky. That's hardly relevant in a game mode where you do need tank busting (and, perhaps, tank busting isn't strong enough).

    Plus there's a lot of stuff in sPvP that's only in sPvP because it wasn't going to affect the rest of the game and thus didn't get the regular amount of scrutiny.

    There are a handful of changes from sPvP that I would migrate to WvW, but they are a small minority of those splits.

  • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    While most PvP nerfs need to hit WvW as well, for me the biggest thing is forcing WvW to use the same stats that are available to PvP. No more trailblazer, no more dire. No more any stat that isn't in PvP itself. I don't yet know how this would be implemented, because I can't agree with the amulet system for WvW, but definitely any stat set that is deemed too powerful for sPvP is most definitely too powerful in WvW.

    Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

  • Israel.7056Israel.7056 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2017

    @Nuka Cola.8520 said:

    @Israel.7056 said:
    Because spvp and WvW are completely different in terms of stats available. I mean imagine if they allowed trailblazer scourges in SPvP. Or trailblazer anything really. That'd be a completely different game mode.

    Yeah, wvw is much more unbalanced with additional stats, runes etc. So at least apply spvp nerfs so wvw gets a little more balanced? Or is wvw supposed to be a mess (balance wise) for the years to come?

    What makes you think Spvp nerfs would make WvW any more balanced? Nerf rev enough and that guy just switches weapon sets or maybe just hops on a spellbreaker or maybe he goes full trailblazer aids rev. You might have an easier matchup against those builds I couldn't say but my point is that there's always going to be the next strong thing. And if everything else but what you're playing gets nerfed then everyone just swaps to whatever you're currently playing and the cycle begins again. My advice is to just swap classes if you really feel something is overpowered and just play that thing until it gets nerfed. If you insist on sticking with a class because you love it then accept that some things are gonna be annoying to fight. Personally I think SoTM was fine pre nerf in pvp and I think it's fine in WvW. SoTM isn't even on my top 20 list of stuff that annoys me in WvW.

  • Nuka Cola.8520Nuka Cola.8520 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Nah. Mostly because if non hammer power rev gets another nerf, it just means there's no hope for his game.

    You sure you're not just mad you got nuked by a staff 5 when you could've blinked, distorted, mirage mirrored, mirror of anguished, phase retreated, or evaded?

    While we're at it can revenant get 15k instant bursts like power Mesmer GS2 F1? We save 50 of our energy for a measly 4-5k Equilibrium burst, and seems like you want to nerf that to 2-3k by bringing over PvP changes.

    TLDR: another person is mad that people are still playing power rev, wants it to get nerfed instead of learning to play 2 years after class release, uses PvP skill splitting as an excuse.

    I give one example of a skill that is untouched in wvw, and with the very intelligent forum logic, it must be because i have trouble against the build/skill lol. Not only running into a good rev who knows what's up is extremely rare (while roaming), but if there was a class i had the less trouble against, that would be Rev. Has nothing to do with me l2p bs. And it would also apply to other spam such as Pistol Whip, Bound etc etc. You can say whatever about the game modes being different, but both are pvp centered, and if those skills were toned down, there's a reason for that. Like, don't try to tell me that the skills mentioned were only nerfed in spvp because they were too good in spvp. No, they're not too good in spvp, but everywhere. I feel like most of you disagreeing are scared of your mains receiving dat balance, five years later.

  • Nuka Cola.8520Nuka Cola.8520 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Israel.7056 said:

    @Nuka Cola.8520 said:

    @Israel.7056 said:
    Because spvp and WvW are completely different in terms of stats available. I mean imagine if they allowed trailblazer scourges in SPvP. Or trailblazer anything really. That'd be a completely different game mode.

    Yeah, wvw is much more unbalanced with additional stats, runes etc. So at least apply spvp nerfs so wvw gets a little more balanced? Or is wvw supposed to be a mess (balance wise) for the years to come?

    What makes you think Spvp nerfs would make WvW any more balanced? Nerf rev enough and that guy just switches weapon sets or maybe just hops on a spellbreaker or maybe he goes full trailblazer aids rev. You might have an easier matchup against those builds I couldn't say but my point is that there's always going to be the next strong thing. And if everything else but what you're playing gets nerfed then everyone just swaps to whatever you're currently playing and the cycle begins again. My advice is to just swap classes if you really feel something is overpowered and just play that thing until it gets nerfed. If you insist on sticking with a class because you love it then accept that some things are gonna be annoying to fight. Personally I think SoTM was fine pre nerf in pvp and I think it's fine in WvW. SoTM isn't even on my top 20 list of stuff that annoys me in WvW.

    Spellbreaker won't be broken for the years to come, so he can jump on it, whatever. Also, is balancing staff 5 on rev supposed to kill the class or something? Some of you rely too much on one skill.

  • Titan.3472Titan.3472 Member ✭✭✭

    This suggestion is total BS.

  • Nuka Cola.8520Nuka Cola.8520 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Titan.3472 said:
    This suggestion is total BS.

    Reason being?

  • Titan.3472Titan.3472 Member ✭✭✭

    pvp is not wvw (gameplay & size)

  • Jana.6831Jana.6831 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2017

    @Nuka Cola.8520 said:
    You can say whatever about the game modes being different, but both are pvp centered, and if those skills were toned down, there's a reason for that.

    Alright, then I'll try to type real slow: If you take dameg from skill x in pvp it might be balanced in pvp but in wvw you accidently took double the damage, so you need to buff either that or another skill to make up for it. I get where you coming from, just that anet threw all of that overboard. It would just lead to another mess.

    ETA: I don't play pvp, maybe deceiver will come along, he's the expert on what exactly is calculated differently. As far as I remember it's the crits. Warriors seem to have some traits which let them crit really often. Still they get buffs in pvp which are often also implemented in wvw. I think it's pretty safe to say that WvW warriors are beasts. And in need of a good ol nerf. PvP warriors seem different though, that's why they need buff after buff. Get where I'm coming from and why your idea might not be the best?

    the gentle art of making enemies.

  • Israel.7056Israel.7056 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nuka Cola.8520 said:

    Spellbreaker won't be broken for the years to come, so he can jump on it, whatever. Also, is balancing staff 5 on rev supposed to kill the class or something? Some of you rely too much on one skill.

    Well there's only 5 skills on staff and one is an auto that does mediocre damage and two are defensive oriented skills. Punishing sweep can hit hard but it has no mobility attached to it. SoTM is the big mobile nuke/cc on staff. If you miss SoTM the staff burst goes way down so yeah it's a pretty important skill for revenant. I would even argue that it's one of the defining skills for the class as a whole so a 50 percent nerf to its damage is a huge change.

    Rev doesn't have big multi skill wombo combo chains like some classes do, you basically dump your energy into a couple skills and then auto attack or swap legends and blow your energy again. That's just the way they designed the class.

  • Zephyra.4709Zephyra.4709 Member ✭✭✭

    I disagree OP... PvP balance is different to WvW as they are two separate and varying game modes. One is small-scale 5 man the other caters to upwards of 50+ massive blobs. Not every 'nerf' in PvP would be beneficial in WvW.

    What we need is more skill splitting, not borderline parallel nerfs across two different game modes.

  • Exciton.8942Exciton.8942 Member ✭✭✭

    Most of PvP nerfs should have been applied to WvW as well.

    Just to list a few:
    Deathly chill bleed stacks.
    Mesmer shatter heal.
    Thief endurance regen.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Sigh, he used staff 5 as an example. Let's try other things then. Signet of agilty removed 50% of endurance in spvp and kept it in wvw, but changed it months later, pretty sure there was a buff to sword #2 thief only in pvp but left wvw out of it. Bound dodger reduced dmg in pvp only. Endura/defy pain nerf only in spvp... the list goes on.

  • BeepBoopBop.5403BeepBoopBop.5403 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 24, 2017

    @Nuka Cola.8520 said:

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Nah. Mostly because if non hammer power rev gets another nerf, it just means there's no hope for his game.

    You sure you're not just mad you got nuked by a staff 5 when you could've blinked, distorted, mirage mirrored, mirror of anguished, phase retreated, or evaded?

    While we're at it can revenant get 15k instant bursts like power Mesmer GS2 F1? We save 50 of our energy for a measly 4-5k Equilibrium burst, and seems like you want to nerf that to 2-3k by bringing over PvP changes.

    TLDR: another person is mad that people are still playing power rev, wants it to get nerfed instead of learning to play 2 years after class release, uses PvP skill splitting as an excuse.

    I give one example of a skill that is untouched in wvw, and with the very intelligent forum logic, it must be because i have trouble against the build/skill lol. Not only running into a good rev who knows what's up is extremely rare (while roaming), but if there was a class i had the less trouble against, that would be Rev. Has nothing to do with me l2p bs. And it would also apply to other spam such as Pistol Whip, Bound etc etc. You can say whatever about the game modes being different, but both are pvp centered, and if those skills were toned down, there's a reason for that. Like, don't try to tell me that the skills mentioned were only nerfed in spvp because they were too good in spvp. No, they're not too good in spvp, but everywhere. I feel like most of you disagreeing are scared of your mains receiving dat balance, five years later.

    Receiving dat balance?

    Can we only use amulets in WvW too? I mean if we're gonna balance the skills how can we not balance the stats! It's almost like, idk, the PvP-only nerfs were made to accommodate for the limited stats available in PvP, like most builds lacking toughness. But you don't want to bring the amulets to WvW? Well without bringing the amulets, you would just be arbitrarily punishing currently split skills in an environment that their PvP-only version was not designed to be in.

    So which skill is it? Which split skill hurt you? :(

  • Suggestions like this are why this forums are not taken seriously.

  • Caedmon.6798Caedmon.6798 Member ✭✭✭

    I wouldn;t mind that.I think its time to make warris get the same endure pain effect as in pvp, 2 sec on a 30 sec cd.Think it would stop alot of complaining which seems to be directed mostly at counter but imo its 50/50 with endure pain.

  • Swamurabi.7890Swamurabi.7890 Member ✭✭✭

    Does anybody ever remember a Dev coming on the WvW forums and discussing a skill pre or post change???

    The biggest issue with skill balance in WvW is that some skills that are OP in 1v1 scenarios are rendered useless in 20v20 or 50v50 or blob v blob.
    Likewise there are some skills that are UP in 1v1 scenarios that are OP in 20v20, 50v50 or blob v blob.

    You would all be better off not trying to take WvW so seriously and just have fun with what you have.

    WvW is not nor ever will be what you want it to be.

  • Aetatis.5418Aetatis.5418 Member ✭✭✭

    @Exciton.8942 said:
    Most of PvP nerfs should have been applied to WvW as well.

    Just to list a few:
    Deathly chill bleed stacks.
    Mesmer shatter heal.
    Thief endurance regen.

    this !

  • sacredninja.5236sacredninja.5236 Member ✭✭
    edited October 27, 2017

    Bringing PvP Nerfs to WvW? are you serious? or just trolling now?

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:
    Receiving dat balance?

    Can we only use amulets in WvW too? I mean if we're gonna balance the skills how can we not balance the stats! It's almost like, idk, the PvP-only nerfs were made to accommodate for the limited stats available in PvP

    Exactly!!! and let's lower the player cap to 5 player per world!

    That seems more balanced!

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