Why can mesmers insta-down people? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Why can mesmers insta-down people?

Why is there not much talk about this? Instant kill abilities with no counter-play should not exist in a game. There should be skillful counter-play to everything.

Right now, a mesmer can instant down you from stealth and there's absolutely nothing that can be done about it. You don't see it coming as there is no animation or sound warning. We ran a test and my buddy can hit my warrior with 1400 toughness for 24k damage instantly with no animation from stealth. Auto endure pain doesn't even kick in on time. Any other class with less health dies instantly. Where's the fun in this? Honestly, it's only fun for the mesmer and is that good for the game? I gave it a shot on my mesmer and I can teleport onto 3 people and instantly down them all from stealth.

Most huge damage abilities in the game have obvious telegraphs. You can dodge deadeye's big damage because you see and hear an obvious projectile. You can see a killshot from a warrior coming because it's obvious. There's counter play to all of these.

Is this getting nerfed or what? I don't mind being outplayed in duels and small fights but being instantly downed out of nowhere feels like you're cheated.

<13456710

Comments

  • Galmac.4680Galmac.4680 Member ✭✭✭

    Yep, after Scrouge, nerf all other classes to the same level (as scrouge), then nobody can complain anymore. :)

    Praise Joko!

  • Defy Pain only works if you take a hit below 50% that doesn't down you, so if you have 20k hp, and you're at 11k hp, and you get hit for 15k damage, you go down because the trait doesn't proc because you were above 50% hp the entire time, the same logic applies to a 25k Death's Judgement hitting that same Warrior. I've never had a berserker mesmer one shot me anytime I've been playing warrior with Defy Pain, it's extremely unlikely to happen, less defensive stats could actually help you in that same situation as a Mind Wrack would hit after the Defy Pain procs, doing no damage anymore.

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  • MUDse.7623MUDse.7623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    i didnt get oneshot by a mesmer for ages but i allways run builds that wouldnt survive a successful try. so i dont have a problem with it. and this has been possible for ages dunno why you come up with it now, your opening post reads to me a bit like you want to justify deadeyes DJ with mesmer having a 'better' oneshot.

    and mind i dont have an issue with DJ, i use that one alot myself.

    read this, become a better player now.

  • Kirin.7306Kirin.7306 Member ✭✭✭

    same way engineers can CC you to death =D

  • Jeknar.6184Jeknar.6184 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kirin.7306 said:
    same way engineers can CC you to death =D

    How exactly tha works? I cannot remember the last time a engineer actually beat me. Even less by CC'ing me to death.

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  • Some mirages can down you extremely fast but I think thats more of people not being used to new class mechanics and just facetanking damage. Ive been victim to that twice in the last few days of simply not reacting and wanting to see what it actually did. The damage was good but it wast ridiculously overpowered. Still yes they can hit hard and do, but thats more an issue of passive protections the class has allowing them to build full glass and run away.

  • Jeknar.6184Jeknar.6184 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Malachi.1836 said:
    Some mirages can down you extremely fast but I think thats more of people not being used to new class mechanics and just facetanking damage. Ive been victim to that twice in the last few days of simply not reacting and wanting to see what it actually did. The damage was good but it wast ridiculously overpowered. Still yes they can hit hard and do, but thats more an issue of passive protections the class has allowing them to build full glass and run away.

    This isn't specific of Mirage... any mesmer running Mental Anguish + Superity Complex with a Full Glass Cannon setup will do this kind of damage...

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  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2017

    Because builds that require 10 buttons to do 20k damage and 5 buttons to 20k damage are not on the same level of cancer in Anet's eyes. The former should be allowed to stay apparently.

    RIP gazelle

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @EvilSardine.9635 said:

    @Hiraldo.7954 said:

    @EvilSardine.9635 said:
    I gave it a shot on my mesmer and I can teleport onto 3 people and instantly down them all from stealth.

    Really? You're new to the build and you can pull off the gs combo perfectly on 3 people at once? Never mind the fact that a large part of the burst comes from blinking into mirror blade making it hit the same (single) target multiple times.
    Let's see some footage of that hmm?

    Anyone who has played mesmer at all can pull off any mesmer combo. You just described how easy it is to do most of the burst......blink in and let it bounce between you and target. Those are two button presses. LOL.

    Sure, but how does this explain the other 2 targets going down? You mentioned 3 people going instantly down (well you didn't mention their health so I guess 3 low life targets?).

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    My only real frustration with the build (notably chrono enabling it) is that it can go go into distortion immediately after the burst if it wants to continue to follow-through or run away unscathed.
    Aside from these situations, such builds usually aren't that amazing. DP warrior/SoS trait ranger among others don't really need to be scared at all since the MW damage is multiple hits which means they can't be one-combo-killed. If anything, the more valid complaint is how the combo can work on nearly any build and still fairly safely chunk most people to like 25% while retaining full kit functionality, which is mostly just a result of frustrations yet again coming from chrono with s/sh allowing so much in terms of defenses.

    Raw damage? An all-in glass power shatter mesmer easily has the best burst in the game, but it's probably one of the more mechanically-demanding kits to play with little margin for error. Basically, it iswhat old signet thief was before it was effectively removed from the game somewhat recently, except that they just had different rewards and different capacities of being able to outplay people in different types of encounters.

    I don't mind that the damage exists at all. The stealth-burst nonsense is still nonsense, but I've been saying that even as an ex-thief for years. Unfortunately GW2 devs seem to like the concept of Build Wars on failed concepts more than anything else.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.
    Quit/Inactive. No, you can't have my stuff.

  • mulzi.8273mulzi.8273 Member ✭✭✭

    Is this the mesmer build where you get cc'd locked and burnt in 2 seconds? Fought a few today, where the elite well drop on me, and i was cc'd into obvilion and then ~22k burnt in less then 2 seconds. Granted i was on a glass SB, but i didnt even have time to pop SoS (and i was paying attention), which is kinda crappy .

  • I got also one shotted be a mesmer today. So we have 1Shot Mesmers & 1Shot Waeavers...hmm =( An both is worse because mesmer comes out of stealth so u don't see them and weaver blinks in + it is AoE.

  • Kovu.7560Kovu.7560 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2, 2017

    I have a shortlist of issues with the potency of roaming Mesmer builds, but power damage is not on that list.
    While the damage may seem instantaneous, there are usually several attacks in quick succession involved with that burst. Therefore Endure Pain will work most of the time.

    ~ Kovu

    Ranger main before it was viable.
    Fort Aspenwood.

  • If this is the case, then this would be the answer to Scourges.. no? So people can now stop complaining about them? Get a few of these insta-down mesmers in the group and call it a day. It's that lovely game of rock/paper/scissors

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DeceiverX.8361 said:
    My only real frustration with the build (notably chrono enabling it) is that it can go go into distortion immediately after the burst if it wants to continue to follow-through or run away unscathed.
    Aside from these situations, such builds usually aren't that amazing. DP warrior/SoS trait ranger among others don't really need to be scared at all since the MW damage is multiple hits which means they can't be one-combo-killed. If anything, the more valid complaint is how the combo can work on nearly any build and still fairly safely chunk most people to like 25% while retaining full kit functionality, which is mostly just a result of frustrations yet again coming from chrono with s/sh allowing so much in terms of defenses.

    Raw damage? An all-in glass power shatter mesmer easily has the best burst in the game, but it's probably one of the more mechanically-demanding kits to play with little margin for error. Basically, it iswhat old signet thief was before it was effectively removed from the game somewhat recently, except that they just had different rewards and different capacities of being able to outplay people in different types of encounters.

    I don't mind that the damage exists at all. The stealth-burst nonsense is still nonsense, but I've been saying that even as an ex-thief for years. Unfortunately GW2 devs seem to like the concept of Build Wars on failed concepts more than anything else.

    Id say Scepter ele beats mesmer in pure raw damage burst, blink, triple hit Phoenix, air attunement, lightning strike, blind follow up and arcane blast, will easily hit for 20-30k, course you would need extremely good reactions or most likely a macro to hit it all off in the blink of an eye. I’ve run very glassy, saw a single mind wrack hit for 7k on some thief the other day but that really is the upper end of viable builds where you’re starting to go into scholar, force, impact sigil all chasing that one perfect hit.

    Still the argument boils down to should one shot builds exist? I’m mostly in agreement with OriOri’s criteria, it basically has to one shot you or it will essentially be dead and that goes for any class regardless. Once again I guess stealth is the issue here, it’s just not great for the game but at least mesmers can’t camp it so much now after the pledge change and PU being in a line that would cost you a lot in burst.

  • It's just a learning curve with new builds. You'll get it.

    What you sacrifice for mirage isn't worth it to me.

  • Jeknar.6184Jeknar.6184 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SugarCayne.3098 said:
    It's just a learning curve with new builds. You'll get it.

    What you sacrifice for mirage isn't worth it to me.

    I wouldn't call picking Mirage a Sacrifice tbh... Jaunt deals a respectable damage and it will proc a extra clone if you pull it after the mirror blade hit your target. It in fact make pulling the 3 clone Mind Wrack much easier without the need of running mirror image.

    Also, the big damage from Mesmer come from dueling (Superiority Complex) and domination (Mental Anguish)... What would be your "sacrifice" for Mirage? Chrono? Illusions? None of these traitlines really add anything to your damage. They are utility lines, just like Mirage. And that's why this build work with any setup of mesmer. As long you take the first two, the third line don't really matter (Unless you really consider the 25% Crit chance from Master of Fragmentation game breaking).

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  • Titan.3472Titan.3472 Member ✭✭✭

    @Azamanaza.5740 said:
    The one gross thing about GW2 WvW is how these glass canon builds can 1 shot full tank heavy armor builds..

    That's the reason why it is called glass canon ... It kills fast and can die fast as well.

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zero.3871 said:

    @Titan.3472 said:

    @Azamanaza.5740 said:
    The one gross thing about GW2 WvW is how these glass canon builds can 1 shot full tank heavy armor builds..

    That's the reason why it is called glass canon ... It kills fast and can die fast as well.

    in gw2 there are no "glass cannon"-builds, because every of this "fake-glass-cannon" builds run thousands of invuls and blocks that makes their builds very tanky. for example warrior can play full berzerk and still live minimum of 15 secs just because of invuls, blocks, dodges...in this 15 secs you can kill a lot of enemies with your massive dmg bombs without risk to die. for mesmer its the same...

    Idk I feel pretty glass cannon on hammer rev.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Shirlias.8104Shirlias.8104 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Grebcol.5984 said:
    Funny that people now complain about 1Shottie Mesmer because that build exist since months.

    In WvWvW it is even more lul and it getting more popular now.
    Here the one i think most saw

    First video thief wearing zerk instead of marauder.
    Cleary legit.

  • @EvilSardine.9635 said:

    Is this getting nerfed or what? I don't mind being outplayed in duels and small fights but being instantly downed out of nowhere feels like you're cheated.

    A.) See if a mesmer is on the opposing team
    B.) Be ready to react when you see power lock.
    C.) Keep camera on a swivel to see if mesmer is approaching from behind or the side.
    D.) Congrats you now have the advantage.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • mulzi.8273mulzi.8273 Member ✭✭✭

    on a related note, thank you for posting the videos and whatnot. this morning i've run across at least 8 different kiddies who have to use the latest troll/cheese mesmer build due to their lack of success with any legitimate builds/classes.

  • @mulzi.8273 said:
    on a related note, thank you for posting the videos and whatnot. this morning i've run across at least 8 different kiddies who have to use the latest troll/cheese mesmer build due to their lack of success with any legitimate builds/classes.

    Like Firebrand or Spellbreaker or Deadeye or Scourge or Hammer Rev for instance

  • So far I am seeing the same defense for this Mesmer build as for stealth/Sniper DE.

    This defense is, a player or small group of players tailoring their entire WvW experience around avoiding 2 specific builds...common theme being these builds can one shot a player, stealth and reset to do it again relatively shortly after.

    I feel like maybe that logic deserves some more thought.

  • OriOri.8724OriOri.8724 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @mulzi.8273 said:
    on a related note, thank you for posting the videos and whatnot. this morning i've run across at least 8 different kiddies who have to use the latest troll/cheese mesmer build due to their lack of success with any legitimate builds/classes.

    To be fair, a lot of mesmers been running that setup ever since Superiority Complex was added to the game... In fact, even though I am a mesmer main myself, back at that time I did complain that I thought Superiority Complex was a overtuned trait and that I shouldn't be allowed to "oneshot" (More like one-combo in the case of mesmer) a full Trailblazer Necro simply because he wasn't running Unholy Sanctuary (Keep in mind that a Full Trailblazer Necro have 26k HP and 3,2k Armor)... The end result was me being shot down by everyone and their mother calling me a idiot, saying I was overreacting, and that people not being able to dodge a mesmer burst need to l2p.

    So now, unless you can press a stunbreaker and dodge in half a second after you are stuned by Confounding Suggestions, you better have a Invulnerability trait or accept that people decided that this should be a thing.

    Superiority complex is quite strong as a trait, but its not what makes this burst possible. I'm not saying it shouldn't be looked at, but its not the reason mesmers can pull this off, so if you want to nerf the ability to do this combo look elsewhere for nerfs

    Eyyyy I unlocked signatures

  • Yea superiority complex isnt the main reason mes has been pretty much like this in wvw since release.

  • BeepBoopBop.5403BeepBoopBop.5403 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 2, 2017

    @Vambrace.8675 said:
    So far I am seeing the same defense for this Mesmer build as for stealth/Sniper DE.

    This defense is, a player or small group of players tailoring their entire WvW experience around avoiding 2 specific builds...common theme being these builds can one shot a player, stealth and reset to do it again relatively shortly after.

    I feel like maybe that logic deserves some more thought.

    Here's some ez logic: balance is not done on a WvW small scale fight level :) also unlike PvP, ranged and stealth kiting are practically rewarded in WvW since there's no point to stand on.

    People have been using builds that hit hard and reset forever, it's called thief and just because you and some others don't like it doesn't mean it gets deleted from the game.

    Can power mesmers and thieves contribute in a zerg very well? No? Then dominating small scale fights is all they really have. That's really the best "balance" and "logic" to the situation.

  • Inoki.6048Inoki.6048 Member ✭✭✭

    Let's face it - this expansion is a total failure.

    Mesmers that are inescapable - can port 9 times in a row and stealth almost as much as thieves while stealth should remain primarily a thief mechanic, perform a constant daze combo that is impossible to counter since during daze all skills are non-functional; perma-damage-immune warriors, twice-touch-kill condi necros with super high toughness and vitality pool and then, ofc, snipers. This all began with the introduction of HoT specs, those were a joke too but this,

    this is by far the worst joke ever.

  • @Inoki.6048 said:
    Let's face it - this expansion is a total failure.

    Mesmers that are inescapable - can port 9 times in a row and stealth almost as much as thieves while stealth should remain primarily a thief mechanic, perform a constant daze combo that is impossible to counter since during daze all skills are non-functional;

    You can like...stunbreak. If you were caught off guard, that's something else entirely. But if you were aware and ready for it like you should always be in WvW ideally...you can stunbreak.

  • KrHome.1920KrHome.1920 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2, 2017

    Every complaint about a Power Mesmer oneshot is just an indicator about the complainant's skill level - which in this case is nonexistent.

    Been there, done that! 5 years ago. Today I know that I was just an incredible bad player.

    It is a oneshot, yes - but it's the most easy to avoid oneshot in the game. At the same time a power mesmer is easier to kill than any other oneshot build/class. Well played Mirages are a threat, but even these builds have multiple counters besides autoproc invulnerabilities.

  • Inoki.6048Inoki.6048 Member ✭✭✭

    @BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

    @Inoki.6048 said:
    Let's face it - this expansion is a total failure.

    Mesmers that are inescapable - can port 9 times in a row and stealth almost as much as thieves while stealth should remain primarily a thief mechanic, perform a constant daze combo that is impossible to counter since during daze all skills are non-functional;

    You can like...stunbreak. If you were caught off guard, that's something else entirely. But if you were aware and ready for it like you should always be in WvW ideally...you can stunbreak.

    if I could I wouldn't mention it, but I do recall hitting that stun break yet still remain dazed. How do you explain that? Bug? Intent?

  • @Jeknar.6184 said:

    @Kirin.7306 said:
    same way engineers can CC you to death =D

    How exactly tha works? I cannot remember the last time a engineer actually beat me. Even less by CC'ing me to death.

    Build heat, invis, rifle 4, Rifle 2, engage Photon forge, Holographic Shockwave, Prime Lightbeam elite.

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