What's the future of raids in GW2? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

What's the future of raids in GW2?

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  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zoda Slayer.4176 said:
    With no rewards for challenge mote for those who have done their weekly clears/shard capped/achievements done, the future looks pretty grim. Seems like a lot of wasted effort making a challenge mode for each boss that only gets played once by a player and then nobody wants to do it again.

    This is one of the problems, however there are both benefits and drawbacks in adding rewards to those.

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just more legendary, the trinkets legendary not completed yet.

    Founder & Retired Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi
    https://discord.gg/P5dj7fd

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Malediktus.9250 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:
    Rewards wont matter if a new wing takes a year to come out.

    Glad I am not the only one who is annoyed by the slow release shedule. They said they could make upto 6 raid wings per year. The reality seems to be more like 1, if lucky 2 per year.

    IIRC, I thought they said something more along the lines of 1 every six months, but none the less, just because they 'could' do something, does not mean they will do it.

    Maybe if they sold the raid wings as their own private content, like a Mini-Expansion, that might inspire faster/more development.

    I doubt there's enough raiders to pay for raids though. In the end it's mostly paid for by the money from people that do not raid (or raid, but not consider that content to be essential enough to specifically pay for it).

    That goes for everything is this game. I prob paid for the wvw update we had pre pof and i rarely if ever do wvw.

    Ya can't sell a "balance patch" as no one would buy a nerf.

    But I could see a WvW Adventure pack, with additional maps, reward tracks, vendors, and the like. The main problem I see, is how to do that without breaking up the existing system. It would kind of need to be, where everyone that wanted to WvW would need to buy the upgrade, unlike PvE, where they can separate the zones, WvW does not have that.

    My point is moneybwent to updates and content aditions to modes i dont play. Saying its bad or not worth for only one part of the game is unfair.

    Dude, if it meant that WvW got more love.. I'd buy packs for people that don't even play this game.

    Prob same if it meant the game would got better.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Zoda Slayer.4176 said:
    With no rewards for challenge mote for those who have done their weekly clears/shard capped/achievements done, the future looks pretty grim. Seems like a lot of wasted effort making a challenge mode for each boss that only gets played once by a player and then nobody wants to do it again.

    This is one of the problems, however there are both benefits and drawbacks in adding rewards to those.

    The benefits outweight the drawbacks.

  • I'm assuming there will be some sort of exclusive mount skins available only in raids. They would be the big selling point "drop wise" for the enxt wing.

  • The challenge motes are great, but it's insane to me that after they added repeatable challenge motes to fractals, that they failed to do so for W4. Adding something for high level players to consistently shoot for for an extra reward would be a great start.

    I think just an extra good roll, or guaranteed mats, or some shots at other good payouts would go a long way to push people harder. As someone who's full cleared almost every week for almost 2 years, it's all just rote, mostly just a way to easily gear up new chars and earn some cash.

    The other side of this coin is increasing rewards for repeat clears. All they need to do is toss in an extra rare and decent shots at exotics, to make it feel more worthwhile to help friends and keep doing raids throughout the week. A handful of bags just feels crummy. I think small steps like these 2 would go a long ways to just getting more bodies in there, other reliable means for some decent cash. If they're worried about people farming the easiest quickest boss over and over like Mursaat Overseer, just make it daily rewards. It seems all pretty straightforward.

  • Mega Skeleton.8259Mega Skeleton.8259 Member ✭✭
    edited November 2, 2017

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Zoda Slayer.4176 said:
    With no rewards for challenge mote for those who have done their weekly clears/shard capped/achievements done, the future looks pretty grim. Seems like a lot of wasted effort making a challenge mode for each boss that only gets played once by a player and then nobody wants to do it again.

    This is one of the problems, however there are both benefits and drawbacks in adding rewards to those.

    The benefits outweight the drawbacks.

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Zoda Slayer.4176 said:
    With no rewards for challenge mote for those who have done their weekly clears/shard capped/achievements done, the future looks pretty grim. Seems like a lot of wasted effort making a challenge mode for each boss that only gets played once by a player and then nobody wants to do it again.

    This is one of the problems, however there are both benefits and drawbacks in adding rewards to those.

    The benefits outweight the drawbacks.

    Yeah, I think making bonus rewards for challenge modes weekly or daily is an easy easy control mechanism to prevent something from being overly farmable.

    Another option is adding some kind of daily challenge reward for bonus magnetite and a chest that semi-randomly picks a challenge mote to do. A daily challenge would be a good way to reinvigorate ALL previous challenge motes without making them abusable, and they can reuse the current system.

    Long story short they have a ton of systems in place to increase the rewards without being abusable, I just must think the teams must not be communicating well.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    I doubt there's enough raiders to pay for raids though. In the end it's mostly paid for by the money from people that do not raid (or raid, but not consider that content to be essential enough to specifically pay for it).

    Found this on reddit:
    BGDM is fairly popular, at the moment there are 16,000(!!!) active users using BGDM, that means users that have been active within a period of one week, the BGDM server has 2k concurrent users on average with peaks of 4-5k users at which point the data sent/received by the server is an astounding 80MB/50MB respectively.
    Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/661kll/bgdm_semiannouncement_about_current_statefuture/

    It's a 6 months old post by the creator of BGDM. 16k active users within a week and 4-5k concurrent users at peak time (probably Monday when Raids reset)
    The game had maximum 460k concurrent users at some point during the first year (with those 3.5 million sales)
    Link: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-the-first-year/
    That's nearly 1% (0.86%) of the RELEASE concurrent players. I wonder how many concurrent players the game has now, to compare with the 4-5k peak BGDM users.

    I think the amount of Raiders in the game is way higher than these forums say :)

    Do you have any data about how many of those players actually raid though? A lot of people i know are using dps meters. Most of them either don't raid, don't raid anymore, or raid very sporadically. Most of them (even those that do raid) would definitely not buy Raids if they were offered as a DLC.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Do you have any data about how many of those players actually raid though? A lot of people i know are using dps meters. Most of them either don't raid, don't raid anymore, or raid very sporadically. Most of them (even those that do raid) would definitely not buy Raids if they were offered as a DLC.

    Once again, it's a count of concurrent players at peak time. It's an actually useful metric that shows how many users were online at peak time using that 3d party tool (it's no longer available btw, been banned), the "raid sporadically, don't raid anymore arguments would be valid if it counted "active" users, which is what I want to avoid, because what is an "active" user in Guild Wars 2 is up for debate.

    As for Raids as DLC it depends. If they also add world maps, wvw maps, pvp maps, elite specs, new gear types, fractals, dungeons and so on as DLC and a player can pick and choose what to make their game like, it can work.

    Of course asking a Raider to buy an expansion to get elite specs and/or new gear stats, then pay more just to buy a Raid wouldn't work.
    Either the entire game given as DLC in pieces, so a player can pick a choose what they want to support, or we stay in the current model.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Do you have any data about how many of those players actually raid though? A lot of people i know are using dps meters. Most of them either don't raid, don't raid anymore, or raid very sporadically. Most of them (even those that do raid) would definitely not buy Raids if they were offered as a DLC.

    Once again, it's a count of concurrent players at peak time.

    Sure. But you used BGDM numbers when replying about my doubts about raider population size (and their willingness to support that type of content on their own). So, do you have any info about how the data you supplied is related to the point you were replying to, or was it just some completely unrelated info you just wanted to share with us?

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Do you have any data about how many of those players actually raid though? A lot of people i know are using dps meters. Most of them either don't raid, don't raid anymore, or raid very sporadically. Most of them (even those that do raid) would definitely not buy Raids if they were offered as a DLC.

    Once again, it's a count of concurrent players at peak time.

    Sure. But you used BGDM numbers when replying about my doubts about raider population size (and their willingness to support that type of content on their own). So, do you have any info about how the data you supplied is related to the point you were replying to, or was it just some completely unrelated info you just wanted to share with us?

    High concurrent players = more players it's rather obvious isn't it?

  • maxwelgm.4315maxwelgm.4315 Member ✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    I doubt there's enough raiders to pay for raids though. In the end it's mostly paid for by the money from people that do not raid (or raid, but not consider that content to be essential enough to specifically pay for it).

    Found this on reddit:
    BGDM is fairly popular, at the moment there are 16,000(!!!) active users using BGDM, that means users that have been active within a period of one week, the BGDM server has 2k concurrent users on average with peaks of 4-5k users at which point the data sent/received by the server is an astounding 80MB/50MB respectively.
    Link: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/661kll/bgdm_semiannouncement_about_current_statefuture/

    It's a 6 months old post by the creator of BGDM. 16k active users within a week and 4-5k concurrent users at peak time (probably Monday when Raids reset)
    The game had maximum 460k concurrent users at some point during the first year (with those 3.5 million sales)
    Link: https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-the-first-year/
    That's nearly 1% (0.86%) of the RELEASE concurrent players. I wonder how many concurrent players the game has now, to compare with the 4-5k peak BGDM users.

    I think the amount of Raiders in the game is way higher than these forums say :)

    I just want to point out, as a frequent WvW player, that a large portion of WvW guilds use BGDM , among other DPS meter tools. I'd wager that the lion's share of DPS measuring actually goes on in WvW even. It is also very frequent in Fractals. I have serious doubts about the raiding population but, as you put it very well, it is merely personal evidence that wouldn't justify any argument (I try to raid here and there during the whole week and always see the same people).

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maxwelgm.4315 said:
    I just want to point out, as a frequent WvW player, that a large portion of WvW guilds use BGDM , among other DPS meter tools. I'd wager that the lion's share of DPS measuring actually goes on in WvW even. It is also very frequent in Fractals. I have serious doubts about the raiding population but, as you put it very well, it is merely personal evidence that wouldn't justify any argument (I try to raid here and there during the whole week and always see the same people).

    I hope they don't use BGDM anymore j/k
    I've been a lot in WvW even during that era and never encountered dps meters, not in a single squad. I guess it was in organized guild squads or something? Those doing GvG? Since we have number of servers and the number of approximately players in a GvG (10-20), we could count the number of GvG guilds too and get how many of those players are WvWers but obviously it wouldn't help with concurrency numbers. I'm just pointing out that I don't think dps meter users in WvW were so many.

    Truth of the matter is the number of that peak concurrency is a rather huge one (1% of the release total) Btw other games release when they get 100k+ concurrent players - BDO did, B&S did and if I recall ESO did too. 100k concurrent players as a number is a reason to rejoice and advertise, it's a number other MMORPGs boast, yet Guild Wars 2 doesn't. Could it be that it doesn't reach that number? Or just don't want to because the game reached 460k at release.

    Who knows.

  • @Zenith.7301 said:
    They could start with improving the gold payouts. It's pathetic how little raids pay for the effort they take. Putting t6 materials and leather/cloth/metal/wood boxes for trade for magnetite shards would also be nice.

    you get 30+ gold out of it as is, you get 13 rares and 13 exotics and there's quite a high chance that you'll drop at least one ascended item from the bosses all that for 2h of work is fine

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2017

    @kujc.9843 said:

    @Zenith.7301 said:
    They could start with improving the gold payouts. It's pathetic how little raids pay for the effort they take. Putting t6 materials and leather/cloth/metal/wood boxes for trade for magnetite shards would also be nice.

    you get 30+ gold out of it as is, you get 13 rares and 13 exotics and there's quite a high chance that you'll drop at least one ascended item from the bosses all that for 2h of work is fine

    You get 30+ gold from 1 hour of fractals that only takes 4 other people and less running costs to do. Fractals also don't have a weekly lockout....

    And then there's the 4 people I've ran with all getting infusion drops that sell for 1.2k gold.

    Raid rewards are pathetic.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Do you have any data about how many of those players actually raid though? A lot of people i know are using dps meters. Most of them either don't raid, don't raid anymore, or raid very sporadically. Most of them (even those that do raid) would definitely not buy Raids if they were offered as a DLC.

    Once again, it's a count of concurrent players at peak time.

    Sure. But you used BGDM numbers when replying about my doubts about raider population size (and their willingness to support that type of content on their own). So, do you have any info about how the data you supplied is related to the point you were replying to, or was it just some completely unrelated info you just wanted to share with us?

    High concurrent players = more players it's rather obvious isn't it?

    Yes, but it's not clear how the number of BGDM users compares to the raider population.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2017

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Most of them (even those that do raid) would definitely not buy Raids if they were offered as a DLC.

    Why not?

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Do you have any data about how many of those players actually raid though? A lot of people i know are using dps meters. Most of them either don't raid, don't raid anymore, or raid very sporadically. Most of them (even those that do raid) would definitely not buy Raids if they were offered as a DLC.

    Once again, it's a count of concurrent players at peak time.

    Sure. But you used BGDM numbers when replying about my doubts about raider population size (and their willingness to support that type of content on their own). So, do you have any info about how the data you supplied is related to the point you were replying to, or was it just some completely unrelated info you just wanted to share with us?

    High concurrent players = more players it's rather obvious isn't it?

    Yes, but it's not clear how the number of BGDM users compares to the raider population.

    I already explained earlier about the BGDM WvW users. We have the number of servers, we probably have the number of Guilds doing GvGs too, they aren't so many.
    Regular pug WvW raids never used BGDM, I mean what's the point anyway. At the very least a commander could use it to spy on the enemy team (it showed number of players around). From my time in Fractals ArcDPS was preferred over BGDM

    But you are right it's not exactly showing the raider population because not every raider ever used BGDM so the population is likely much larger, not to mention there were already loads using ArcDPS even back then.

    If you do not accept that at the very least it shows the number of players doing high end fractals, raids and high end GvGs, ie: the more hardcore part of the community. That on its own is also a very valuable statistic when we hear a lot about how much the casual players outnumber the hardcore player population.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Most of them (even those that do raid) would definitely not buy Raids if they were offered as a DLC.

    Why not?

    Unless they offer the rest of the game as DLCs too then Kheldorn is right.
    Why would a raider be required to spend $30 to get the elite specs and then another $10 to buy the Raid?

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Most of them (even those that do raid) would definitely not buy Raids if they were offered as a DLC.

    Why not?

    Unless they offer the rest of the game as DLCs too then Kheldorn is right.
    Why would a raider be required to spend $30 to get the elite specs and then another $10 to buy the Raid?

    ESO sells the whole package as dlc. That includes raids new zones quest and maybe dungeons. Making only 1 side of the content b2p on a game that work differently for everything else is bad. Either go the whole way or go home.

  • If I had to use real money to buy new raid wings I would just change my main game to something else. If the raids were in the gemstore it would depend on the gem costs and release interval, but that's me since I don't have much problem making gold in this game but newer or less active players would probably need to spend real money and this could make them turn away from the game.

    As for raid rewards, they are pretty bad for anyone who has been playing the game for a while but I can't really say they are unfair considering the difficulty of the encounters after the optimal compositions and sustained dps rotations were figured out. Maybe adding some repeatable challenge mote rewards (not as good as the first time, but good enough that it can be felt) would be a nice start to improve the quality of rewards while pushing the difficulty for the players who are up to the challenge.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm going to disagree with all of you, because I have played games that sold Large Scale DLC, like expansions, and Smaller "Adventure Pack" style DLC.

    It works quite well for games overall, as expansions, as the same implies, expand the game, often in the form of Power Creep (Mounts, Gliding, Elite Specs, New Armor Combos, Etc)

    Where Adventure Packs, simply just provide something to do.

    Now selling Instance based content (Dungeon/Fractal/Raid) has no impact on the rest of the game, like say a Mount, Gliding, or Elite Spec, does. So things that are wider in impact, should be saved for Expansions. Things that just occupy time, are fine to sold on their own.

    In this case, they already sell Living Story to anyone that wants to buy it, (Because it does not change the game) as such, Selling Raids, Dungeons, Fractals, and even things like Obsidian Sanctum, would be good.

    Imagine.. everything you want. Raids, Hard Mode Maps, Challenging Jumping Puzzles, all of it, would get made, simply because you put your money where your mouth is.

    Equally so, to everyone saying that you would not pay for it.. think how that sounds, I mean really, if you are not willing to pay for it... why should Anet make it then?

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I'm going to disagree with all of you, because I have played games that sold Large Scale DLC, like expansions, and Smaller "Adventure Pack" style DLC.

    Single player games and MMORPGs are very different

  • If the quality of these dlc raids is even remotely the same then they are just not worth the money. If they are high quality and are released frequently then it will segregate tiny community that is already pretty much dead.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I'm going to disagree with all of you, because I have played games that sold Large Scale DLC, like expansions, and Smaller "Adventure Pack" style DLC.

    Single player games and MMORPGs are very different

    Dude.. I AM talking about MMO's..

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2017

    @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:
    If the quality of these dlc raids is even remotely the same then they are just not worth the money. If they are high quality and are released frequently then it will segregate tiny community that is already pretty much dead.

    Ok fair enough.. Well, then you all need to come to terms with the fact that if they are not worth the money to buy, then they are not worth the money to make.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I'm going to disagree with all of you, because I have played games that sold Large Scale DLC, like expansions, and Smaller "Adventure Pack" style DLC.

    Single player games and MMORPGs are very different

    Dude.. I AM talking about MMO's..

    Like? Which MMORPG added Raids and only Raids as DLC?

  • @STIHL.2489 said:

    @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:
    If the quality of these dlc raids is even remotely the same then they are just not worth the money. If they are high quality and are released frequently then it will segregate tiny community that is already pretty much dead.

    Ok fair enough.. Well, then you all need to come to terms with the fact that if they are not worth the money to buy, then they are not worth the money to make.

    Yup. Quality went way down after w1. I would pick a fractal every 2 months over another w4 any time.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:
    If the quality of these dlc raids is even remotely the same then they are just not worth the money. If they are high quality and are released frequently then it will segregate tiny community that is already pretty much dead.

    Ok fair enough.. Well, then you all need to come to terms with the fact that if they are not worth the money to buy, then they are not worth the money to make.

    Keep in mind raids were funded and are kept alive by whales. Raiding community wouldnt be able to fund single dev payment

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I'm going to disagree with all of you, because I have played games that sold Large Scale DLC, like expansions, and Smaller "Adventure Pack" style DLC.

    Single player games and MMORPGs are very different

    Dude.. I AM talking about MMO's..

    Like? Which MMORPG added Raids and only Raids as DLC?

    Dungeons and Dragons Online.

    Was that your only question?

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I'm going to disagree with all of you, because I have played games that sold Large Scale DLC, like expansions, and Smaller "Adventure Pack" style DLC.

    Single player games and MMORPGs are very different

    Dude.. I AM talking about MMO's..

    Like? Which MMORPG added Raids and only Raids as DLC?

    Dungeons and Dragons Online.

    Was that your only question?

    You mean gw2 should look for ideas from dead games?

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:
    If the quality of these dlc raids is even remotely the same then they are just not worth the money. If they are high quality and are released frequently then it will segregate tiny community that is already pretty much dead.

    Ok fair enough.. Well, then you all need to come to terms with the fact that if they are not worth the money to buy, then they are not worth the money to make.

    Yup. Quality went way down after w1. I would pick a fractal every 2 months over another w4 any time.

    Perhaps they can sell fractals as well. I am all for that. In fact, Instance based grind content is the perfect stuff to chop into small packages and sell by the piece.

    Honestly, if they made dungeons like AC, that gave comparable to the old style rewards with 4 - 5 gold for just the 3 paths, and tokens that I could use to get a armor/weapon set, I'd pay at least 15 cash, for it, and if it was right in my skill range, I'd have another 15 waiting for the next one.

    You say openly that what you want more of, is not worth paying for, yet you expect Anet to pay for it (it ain't free to make it)

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Miellyn.6847Miellyn.6847 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:
    If the quality of these dlc raids is even remotely the same then they are just not worth the money. If they are high quality and are released frequently then it will segregate tiny community that is already pretty much dead.

    Ok fair enough.. Well, then you all need to come to terms with the fact that if they are not worth the money to buy, then they are not worth the money to make.

    Keep in mind raids were funded and are kept alive by whales. Raiding community wouldnt be able to fund single dev payment

    And where is the proof for that statment other than your hate for raids?

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I'm going to disagree with all of you, because I have played games that sold Large Scale DLC, like expansions, and Smaller "Adventure Pack" style DLC.

    Single player games and MMORPGs are very different

    Dude.. I AM talking about MMO's..

    Like? Which MMORPG added Raids and only Raids as DLC?

    Dungeons and Dragons Online.

    Was that your only question?

    Dungeons and Dragons Online is free to play isn't it?
    And the adventure packs are how they do their content, they look more like Living World episodes, like selling Living World episodes for cash (or rather gems, because you can buy them with in-game currency too) which is exactly what Arenanet is doing too.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:
    If the quality of these dlc raids is even remotely the same then they are just not worth the money. If they are high quality and are released frequently then it will segregate tiny community that is already pretty much dead.

    Ok fair enough.. Well, then you all need to come to terms with the fact that if they are not worth the money to buy, then they are not worth the money to make.

    Keep in mind raids were funded and are kept alive by whales. Raiding community wouldnt be able to fund single dev payment

    And where is the proof for that statment other than your hate for raids?

    Raid rewards are not monetized.

  • Miellyn.6847Miellyn.6847 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2017

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:
    If the quality of these dlc raids is even remotely the same then they are just not worth the money. If they are high quality and are released frequently then it will segregate tiny community that is already pretty much dead.

    Ok fair enough.. Well, then you all need to come to terms with the fact that if they are not worth the money to buy, then they are not worth the money to make.

    Keep in mind raids were funded and are kept alive by whales. Raiding community wouldnt be able to fund single dev payment

    And where is the proof for that statment other than your hate for raids?

    Raid rewards are not monetized.

    Raids need the current expansion to play the next raids. So they actually cost money. Unlike fractals, WvW or sPvP.
    My point still stands. It's just pure hate on your part.

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I'm going to disagree with all of you, because I have played games that sold Large Scale DLC, like expansions, and Smaller "Adventure Pack" style DLC.

    Single player games and MMORPGs are very different

    Dude.. I AM talking about MMO's..

    Like? Which MMORPG added Raids and only Raids as DLC?

    Dungeons and Dragons Online.

    Was that your only question?

    Dungeons and Dragons Online is free to play isn't it?
    And the adventure packs are how they do their content, they look more like Living World episodes, like selling Living World episodes for cash (or rather gems, because you can buy them with in-game currency too) which is exactly what Arenanet is doing too.

    So is this game. You pay for an expansion box that merely brings open world PvE maps. The raids have never come with the expansion box, and neither have fractals.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I'm going to disagree with all of you, because I have played games that sold Large Scale DLC, like expansions, and Smaller "Adventure Pack" style DLC.

    Single player games and MMORPGs are very different

    Dude.. I AM talking about MMO's..

    Like? Which MMORPG added Raids and only Raids as DLC?

    Dungeons and Dragons Online.

    Was that your only question?

    Dungeons and Dragons Online is free to play isn't it?
    And the adventure packs are how they do their content, they look more like Living World episodes, like selling Living World episodes for cash (or rather gems, because you can buy them with in-game currency too) which is exactly what Arenanet is doing too.

    No.. not at all like what Anet is doing. and from what you are saying, It's not something I will be able to explain to you. But, you are right, it is F2P, so, give it a try and see what I am talking about. The First Raid is free! How great is that!

    Tell Sorjek "Galvanized" said Hi..

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:
    If the quality of these dlc raids is even remotely the same then they are just not worth the money. If they are high quality and are released frequently then it will segregate tiny community that is already pretty much dead.

    Ok fair enough.. Well, then you all need to come to terms with the fact that if they are not worth the money to buy, then they are not worth the money to make.

    Keep in mind raids were funded and are kept alive by whales. Raiding community wouldnt be able to fund single dev payment

    And where is the proof for that statment other than your hate for raids?

    Raid rewards are not monetized.

    Raids need the current expansion to play the next raids. So they actually cost money. Unlike fractals, WvW or sPvP.
    My point still stands. It's just pure hate on your part.

    current expansion would be created and sold even if raids never existed, raids would never happen if not for whole community funding this mode

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zenith.7301 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I'm going to disagree with all of you, because I have played games that sold Large Scale DLC, like expansions, and Smaller "Adventure Pack" style DLC.

    Single player games and MMORPGs are very different

    Dude.. I AM talking about MMO's..

    Like? Which MMORPG added Raids and only Raids as DLC?

    Dungeons and Dragons Online.

    Was that your only question?

    Dungeons and Dragons Online is free to play isn't it?
    And the adventure packs are how they do their content, they look more like Living World episodes, like selling Living World episodes for cash (or rather gems, because you can buy them with in-game currency too) which is exactly what Arenanet is doing too.

    So is this game. You pay for an expansion box that merely brings open world PvE maps. The raids have never come with the expansion box, and neither have fractals.

    Well, in like their First Expansion, which was Forgotten Realms, that came with 1 new City Zone, 2 Outdoor Zones, about a dozen individual dungeons, and one big kitten raid, facing Lloth. along with like a metric kitten tone of Power Creep, added levels and the typical BS that comes from an expansion (all of which was advertised as part of the expansion, and fully available on day 1 live of the Expansions release) . Then they added like 3 or 4 more raids and a dozen or so dungeon packs, that you needed the Expansion to Access, in fact, if you did not have the expansion, you could not even buy the other content associated with it.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    I'm going to disagree with all of you, because I have played games that sold Large Scale DLC, like expansions, and Smaller "Adventure Pack" style DLC.

    Single player games and MMORPGs are very different

    Dude.. I AM talking about MMO's..

    Like? Which MMORPG added Raids and only Raids as DLC?

    Dungeons and Dragons Online.

    Was that your only question?

    You mean gw2 should look for ideas from dead games?

    It's more alive then GW1. so.. since they did not need to make a DDO2, they may be on to something.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    It's more alive then GW1. so.. since they did not need to make a DDO2, they may be on to something.

    Apples to Oranges here.

    GW1 isn't dead for lack of support and in-fact it's still in a very playable state. GW1 just doesn't have new content due to them shifting from GW:Eutopia/Next into designing GW2 because the scope of what they wanted to do shifted. It happens just look at Overwatch (Project Titan).

    Also if we use your logic here we may as well be calling it DDO6 considering the breadth of single player games like Icewind Dale, NWN/NWN2 that DDO steals from.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2017

    @TexZero.7910 said:
    Also if we use your logic here we may as well be calling it DDO6 considering the breadth of single player games like Icewind Dale, NWN/NWN2 that DDO steals from.

    Did you know those games had Totally different developers?

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • STIHL.2489STIHL.2489 Member ✭✭✭✭

    However.. I have read enough. Pretty much when all ya came out and said you wouldn't pay for more raids.. well.. that right there.. answers what's the future of raids.

    There are two kinds of Gamers, Salty, and Extra Salty.
    Ego is the Anesthesia that dullens the pain of Stupidity.

  • Joxer.6024Joxer.6024 Member ✭✭✭

    ESO has gone FTP but you have to pay for the DLC, i.e. raids and such.

  • Miellyn.6847Miellyn.6847 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:
    If the quality of these dlc raids is even remotely the same then they are just not worth the money. If they are high quality and are released frequently then it will segregate tiny community that is already pretty much dead.

    Ok fair enough.. Well, then you all need to come to terms with the fact that if they are not worth the money to buy, then they are not worth the money to make.

    Keep in mind raids were funded and are kept alive by whales. Raiding community wouldnt be able to fund single dev payment

    And where is the proof for that statment other than your hate for raids?

    Raid rewards are not monetized.

    Raids need the current expansion to play the next raids. So they actually cost money. Unlike fractals, WvW or sPvP.
    My point still stands. It's just pure hate on your part.

    current expansion would be created and sold even if raids never existed, raids would never happen if not for whole community funding this mode

    Raids were advertised as an expansion feature in HoT. And they get content the same way living story works with the current expansion. They are not founded by whales.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Joxer.6024 said:
    ESO has gone FTP but you have to pay for the DLC, i.e. raids and such.

    The "DLC" of ESO has more than Raids.

    @STIHL.2489 said:
    However.. I have read enough. Pretty much when all ya came out and said you wouldn't pay for more raids.. well.. that right there.. answers what's the future of raids.

    Why would anyone pay for something double the price?
    Make the Living World paid, make the new zones paid (separately), make the festivals paid, make every new collection paid, make jumping puzzles paid. How do you think that would work?

  • Kheldorn.5123Kheldorn.5123 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @Miellyn.6847 said:

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @TheRandomGuy.7246 said:
    If the quality of these dlc raids is even remotely the same then they are just not worth the money. If they are high quality and are released frequently then it will segregate tiny community that is already pretty much dead.

    Ok fair enough.. Well, then you all need to come to terms with the fact that if they are not worth the money to buy, then they are not worth the money to make.

    Keep in mind raids were funded and are kept alive by whales. Raiding community wouldnt be able to fund single dev payment

    And where is the proof for that statment other than your hate for raids?

    Raid rewards are not monetized.

    Raids need the current expansion to play the next raids. So they actually cost money. Unlike fractals, WvW or sPvP.
    My point still stands. It's just pure hate on your part.

    current expansion would be created and sold even if raids never existed, raids would never happen if not for whole community funding this mode

    Raids were advertised as an expansion feature in HoT. And they get content the same way living story works with the current expansion. They are not founded by whales.

    Everything is funded by them. If anet made raids into seperate wallet funded by raiders only you would never see new raid again

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kheldorn.5123 said:
    Everything is funded by them. If anet made raids into seperate wallet funded by raiders only you would never see new raid again

    How about making all living world releases paid? Would we see any of those again?
    How about making jumping puzzles paid?
    World Bosses? Meta events? Collections? New mounts? Guild Halls? New Elite specs?

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @STIHL.2489 said:

    @TexZero.7910 said:
    Also if we use your logic here we may as well be calling it DDO6 considering the breadth of single player games like Icewind Dale, NWN/NWN2 that DDO steals from.

    Did you know those games had Totally different developers?

    Does it matter ?

    You wanted to compare CoRPG to MMO, so why is comparing your tRPG to your fabled MMO any worse an analogy when we're talking about sequels and original concepts.

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