How time consuming are raids? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

How time consuming are raids?

Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭
edited October 30, 2017 in Fractals, Dungeons, and Raids

Hello!

I mostly play fractals and open world content, gearing my character and just doing whatever, but i'd like to try raiding.
The problem is, i have no idea how raiding works and if i even have time for that. I can do fractal dailies in an hour or so and move on, but i'm quite sure raids don't work like that.
I'm currently studying at college, and during the week i have a lot of work to do, so i don't have a lot of time to play, but when i do, i'm struggling to focus on what to do. If it's gathering mats, meta maps, fractals, dailies. I can't fit all of it into my play time and i don't know what to focus on. Maybe focusing on raids would be a good thing if i can jam it into my free time. That depends on how time consuming raids are so...

Can someone explain raids to me please? Not in depth as in what i have to do when in them, but generally, how long do they take, if i have to commit to a certain time to do them and just some general info about them.

I play a Mirage, currently just experimenting with builds, but i can easily switch to a meta build if i have to. I can pretty much also switch to a Chronomancer with a gear tune up, i hear they're quite sought after in raids. Will that help me have an easier time raiding?

Help a total newb out!

EDIT: I also need some kind of a long term goal to keep me going in the game, maybe working towards a legendary would help that. I understand it takes a really long time, but still... Long term and all that.

Comments

  • Sephylon.4938Sephylon.4938 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Depends on the group you're with. Some take 2+ hours to clear all 4 wings, some take 2+ hours to kill 1 boss. As for whether or not chrono will help you get in, that depends; how well can you keep alacrity and quickness up, and how well do you feel you can distort the group? Pugs are generally not where you want to start to get into raids. Look for a training guild to make it easier on yourself.

    I am a giant tomato filled with love. I have come to sell you a house made out of pancakes.

  • Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭

    Well i'd certainly need someone to show me how raids work and what my role is, but what do you mean 2+ hours. 2+ hours each day?

  • Sephylon.4938Sephylon.4938 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Raids are on a weekly reset, any boss killed will be saved until reset, Monday 3:30 am est. You have until then to kill as many bosses as you please. There are 2 things specific to raids: Magnetite shards and legendary insight. Magnetite shard, is capped at 150 per week. You can kill the same boss over and over to get this cap. Magnetites are used to but asc weapons, armors, and accessories, as well as raid specific skins. Legendary insight, or Li, is limited to once per boss per week and is needed for legendary armor and is asked by some people for show of experience when pugging. (they can also ask for kill proof which basically means either minis, weapon skins specific to the boss, or more likely, guild decoration drops from the boss.)

    I am a giant tomato filled with love. I have come to sell you a house made out of pancakes.

  • Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭

    So my best bet would be to join a raiding guild that's willing to teach me? Since i can't show any of that as proof when i'm a beginner.
    But since raids are on a weekly reset, that's cool, means i can probably stretch the schedule over a week to then clear raids.
    Depends on other people's schedule though but i'd have to coordinate that with others that i join.

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Depends on the group and how good you are.

    Good group will finish everything within 3-4hrs.

    Starter with starter group most likely to struggle a lot more, to maybe 5x more hours. Depending on individual learning capability, it can varies a lot.

    Founder & Retired Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi
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  • As an added bonus, when you kill your first raid boss you'll unlock and finish the the raid mastery. So there's that.

  • Joxer.6024Joxer.6024 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 31, 2017

    Sucks the life out of me.................... ;)

    But...what server you on? We currently rebuilding our static as many left for silly real life stuffs (I know right?!) so if you NA give me a holler!!

  • Sigfodr.9576Sigfodr.9576 Member ✭✭
    edited October 31, 2017

    Generally people will experience that the first kills take alot longer then later on. This is both due to not having kill proffs (and therefore more joining less exp groups) and more importently you will be lacking the experiense yourself in the beginning and therefore make more mistakes = less kills. Therefore, start slowly and raid for the fun, and be happy when you get a kill, and not sad if you spend an hour without anything to show for it (besides having gotten better).

    Later on, you will be able to join a group and get a kill in 10-20 min. Or do a full run in 2-4 hours (full run = 13 bosses).

    Weither you deside to join a guild to learn or do it purely with lfg is up to you and both can be done. Just be warned, some pugs are very friendly and very skilled. And others hate everyone and play awful. Thats just how it is and the 2 things rarely correlate.

    Edit: If you are EU whisper me ingame, we do training runs every wed. at 19h server time. In case I dont respond, I missed your whisper, then just whisper me again ^^

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Starting with the tanking role = setting yourself up to fail.
    I really recommend starting with healer or dps that way you can see the fights first while you let someone else with a tad bit more experience tank.

  • chrono not always = tank, 2 chronos in the squad and many of the fights dont have a tank. That said, chrono is generally not the easyest to play (not the hardest either imo) and being DPS is often a good way to learn the fight. If you pick healer, then pls go full magi druid, and focus 100% on healing, nothing is worse then having a "noob" as healer who is auto attacking only :D

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭

    currently doing only once a week pug raid during reset - 2 hours + 15 mins full clear, I currently have around 800li.
    before this, I spent lots more hours depending on pug group. good group 2 hours (3 wings before w4 came) up to 4 to 6 hours attempt if bad group for full clear (broken down to clearing with different groups)
    in the early days.. moreeeeee hours.. when I was new... we spent hours and hours on wiping without killing any bosses.

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
    Envoy's Herald, EAoA, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • Joxer.6024Joxer.6024 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sigfodr.9576 said:

    Later on, you will be able to join a group and get a kill in 10-20 min. Or do a full run in 2-4 hours (full run = 13 bosses).

    LOL, I just cant get my head around this! WOW raids took 2-3 hours and it was like 4 Bosses maybe......crazy. But the trash in Blizzard raids really sucked at times whereas here it almost at zero, just Boss to Boss to Boss, so yea, maybe that's the key. :astonished:

  • Joxer.6024Joxer.6024 Member ✭✭✭

    @Talindra.4958 said:
    in the early days.. moreeeeee hours.. when I was new... we spent hours and hours on wiping without killing any bosses.

    Ah the joy of raiding...lol!!!! ;)

  • Starting out, it's very time consuming.
    For average people learning and killing here and there, I'd say 20 hours a week.

  • Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭

    Thank you all for your advice and replies. I'll see if i can find someone in game to show me the ropes. If not, oh well. I really can't play 6 hours daily just to raid, that's too hardcore for me.

    I know you said it takes about 3 hours to clear wverythi g with an expreienced group but i can't expect that in the beginning.

    It's too bad anet made this game into a hardcore grid, but there's other fun stuff i can do anyway so if i don't raid, it's not a big deal. I'll try though, see what happens.

    Thanks!

  • @Veprovina.4876 said:
    Thank you all for your advice and replies. I'll see if i can find someone in game to show me the ropes. If not, oh well. I really can't play 6 hours daily just to raid, that's too hardcore for me.

    I know you said it takes about 3 hours to clear wverythi g with an expreienced group but i can't expect that in the beginning.

    It's too bad anet made this game into a hardcore grid, but there's other fun stuff i can do anyway so if i don't raid, it's not a big deal. I'll try though, see what happens.

    Thanks!

    Check out the raid training discord if you have no where else to start,
    https://discord.gg/CqeejJ3

    Or you can also try the raider's inn though they a fair bit smaller for some reason,
    https://discordapp.com/invite/raQE5fZ

  • Shard.4791Shard.4791 Member ✭✭✭

    As far as I know casual guild raids take from about 2 to 3 hours a day with maybe 1-3 raiding sessions a week 2 sessions being the most common option. Pugging takes anywhere from 15 minutes (single boss) to multiple hours (more bosses/clown fiesta).

  • If you don't get a group to carry you through the first time you're most likely gonna spend time failing at bosses. This process varies from person to person and guild to guild but don't expect a lot of rewards in the beginning, just enjoy the experience of developing your skill and discovering/learning the boss mechanics. When you're a seasoned veteran getting a full clear in 2,5 hours is doable and you won't have to touch raids again in a week.

    From a personal experience I haven't cared much about the rewards in a long time as I have excess ascended chests and weapons lying around doing nothing and every meta role geared up in ascended. Nowadays it's just a time slot for me when I enjoy the static group coming together and killing some big baddies.

  • Kal Bhairav.6589Kal Bhairav.6589 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 1, 2017

    I play and kill same boss over and over.
    If no raid, there is not much stuff interest me to keep me in game over 15 mins, lol.
    And I carry all kinda new players depending on mood.
    At this point, failing is more fun that speed clearing to me. Hence, if anyone needs carry, shout at me in game.

  • My static runs full clears at the beginning of the week, but then we also offer training raid runs for an hour and a half on one day of a week. We will teach a boss, and work on it for the allotted time, and either beat it, or leave it for another day. Sometimes we go back to it again the next week, or we do an easy boss so they can get the satisfaction of a kill, and then go back to the boss we were working on before. It's a slow, but steady system that we've been doing. If you are on the NA server, mail me in game and maybe we can help you get into the raiding scene.

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'd also say they are time consuming in another way:

    The fact that each boss is capped at one "proper" kill per week. There's like, what, 12-13 "bosses" in raids that can - once per week - drop a Legendary Insight each.

    You need 25 LI per Legendary Armour piece.

    This alone means that to get anything out of raids proper, you must invest many maaaany weeks of raiding. Not to mention all the stuff you have to do for the first and second Collection for Legendary Armour that is also time-gated (the pre-Gorseval chests come to mind).

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • Feanor.2358Feanor.2358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    I'd also say they are time consuming in another way:

    The fact that each boss is capped at one "proper" kill per week. There's like, what, 12-13 "bosses" in raids that can - once per week - drop a Legendary Insight each.

    You need 25 LI per Legendary Armour piece.

    This alone means that to get anything out of raids proper, you must invest many maaaany weeks of raiding. Not to mention all the stuff you have to do for the first and second Collection for Legendary Armour that is also time-gated (the pre-Gorseval chests come to mind).

    Meh, just don't obsess over LIs. You'll get these eventually, what's the rush? Enjoy the process. Raiding can be a lot of fun.

  • Sephylon.4938Sephylon.4938 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I personally found getting the faction provisioner tokens more exasperating than the li. Li you get by doing the thing you want, the tokens you have to go out of your way to craft items specific to each npc and pray that the ones in auric and the one in td are open for business, other wise you'll be sticking around to do meta events you don't want to.

    I am a giant tomato filled with love. I have come to sell you a house made out of pancakes.

  • Cynn.1659Cynn.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    Depends on the group and how good you are.

    Good group will finish everything within 3-4hrs.

    Starter with starter group most likely to struggle a lot more, to maybe 5x more hours. Depending on individual learning capability, it can varies a lot.

    Good groups clear everything in 2hours on average.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2017

    @Veprovina.4876 said:
    Thank you all for your advice and replies. I'll see if i can find someone in game to show me the ropes. If not, oh well. I really can't play 6 hours daily just to raid, that's too hardcore for me.

    No reason to. Unless you're doing full clears (which likely you won't be doing at the beginning, unless you'll find a group to carry you), ~2 hours (3 at most) should be your limit. After 2-3 hours people in that group will start making bigger and bigger mistakes, which will reduce the chances of doing a succesful kill (below any acceptable levels, if the players won't be really experienced). At the beginning you'll likely be doing 2-hour long training sessions, with few attempts per week.

    Yes, it takes a lot of time, but there's no way around it. If your group will want to learn the boss (bosses), you'd need to keep trying and trying many times over. And you'd need to do that regularly and often, so you won't keep forgetting half of what you learned inbetween attempts. So, 2 hours per attempt, 2-3 attempts per week. Depending on the overall skill of the group, and the individual learning capability of the players invovled, training to kill the first boss (i don't count escort here) can take anywhere between a week to few months. Learning new bosses will likely be faster and faster the more experience on raiding in general you'll accrue.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭

    Well as i said, i'm in no hurry, and i don't expect to be pro at it from the start. I'll just have to organize my schedule so i can see when i can play without interruption. Then i'll see about getting a raid group.

    On the bright side. Today i did the labyrinth and a precursor for the flameseeker prophecies dropped. :smiley: I'll take that as a sign that i need to switch to chronomancer, and work on my legendary! :smile:

    It could actually be a good thing maybe if i start doing fractals with the chrono to practice rotations. Cause Mirage is fun, but it's kinda mindless too, just spam clones and shatter, or in the meta build, spam phantasms and do stuff...

    Maybe this really is the sign that i should switch to chronomancer. :wink:

  • Oglaf.1074Oglaf.1074 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    I'd also say they are time consuming in another way:

    The fact that each boss is capped at one "proper" kill per week. There's like, what, 12-13 "bosses" in raids that can - once per week - drop a Legendary Insight each.

    You need 25 LI per Legendary Armour piece.

    This alone means that to get anything out of raids proper, you must invest many maaaany weeks of raiding. Not to mention all the stuff you have to do for the first and second Collection for Legendary Armour that is also time-gated (the pre-Gorseval chests come to mind).

    Meh, just don't obsess over LIs. You'll get these eventually, what's the rush? Enjoy the process. Raiding can be a lot of fun.

    I'm not.

    Just saying that you're not going to get instant rewards from raiding> @Feanor.2358 said:

    @Oglaf.1074 said:
    I'd also say they are time consuming in another way:

    The fact that each boss is capped at one "proper" kill per week. There's like, what, 12-13 "bosses" in raids that can - once per week - drop a Legendary Insight each.

    You need 25 LI per Legendary Armour piece.

    This alone means that to get anything out of raids proper, you must invest many maaaany weeks of raiding. Not to mention all the stuff you have to do for the first and second Collection for Legendary Armour that is also time-gated (the pre-Gorseval chests come to mind).

    Meh, just don't obsess over LIs.

    I'm not.

    Just adding that the time-gating in raids is something to also consider when it comes to discussing how time consuming raiding is.

    Please Anet give us a hide Chest Armour-option. Tattoo-clad Norns everywhere beg of you.

  • @Veprovina.4876 said:
    Well as i said, i'm in no hurry, and i don't expect to be pro at it from the start. I'll just have to organize my schedule so i can see when i can play without interruption. Then i'll see about getting a raid group.

    On the bright side. Today i did the labyrinth and a precursor for the flameseeker prophecies dropped. :smiley: I'll take that as a sign that i need to switch to chronomancer, and work on my legendary! :smile:

    It could actually be a good thing maybe if i start doing fractals with the chrono to practice rotations. Cause Mirage is fun, but it's kinda mindless too, just spam clones and shatter, or in the meta build, spam phantasms and do stuff...

    Maybe this really is the sign that i should switch to chronomancer. :wink:

    Just mentioning that I find the meta-build for condi mirage to be insanely more fun than the chronobuild. I did some raiding back when it was new, got burned out from practicing bosses 3 hours a day every day of the week with my guild, and now I'm in a new guild (the old one dispatched while I was away), and we do advanced raids on wednesdays (know mechanics and hit certain dps benchmarks), and practice on sundays (have a metabuild ready, no need to know mechanics and no-one is looking at your dps). It's fun and exciting, and each session is capped to 2,5 hours for advanced and 1,5 hours for practice. I've never done a full clear, but this way I at least get some kills and have a fun time while I'm at it. :)

    Tl;Dr: If you're not in a guild, look for a friendly one and they'll most likely accept you into their raid runs. Looking on lfg can be a hassle as I don't often see training runs there.

  • Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ildrid Ildhjertet.2489 said:

    @Veprovina.4876 said:
    Well as i said, i'm in no hurry, and i don't expect to be pro at it from the start. I'll just have to organize my schedule so i can see when i can play without interruption. Then i'll see about getting a raid group.

    On the bright side. Today i did the labyrinth and a precursor for the flameseeker prophecies dropped. :smiley: I'll take that as a sign that i need to switch to chronomancer, and work on my legendary! :smile:

    It could actually be a good thing maybe if i start doing fractals with the chrono to practice rotations. Cause Mirage is fun, but it's kinda mindless too, just spam clones and shatter, or in the meta build, spam phantasms and do stuff...

    Maybe this really is the sign that i should switch to chronomancer. :wink:

    Just mentioning that I find the meta-build for condi mirage to be insanely more fun than the chronobuild. I did some raiding back when it was new, got burned out from practicing bosses 3 hours a day every day of the week with my guild, and now I'm in a new guild (the old one dispatched while I was away), and we do advanced raids on wednesdays (know mechanics and hit certain dps benchmarks), and practice on sundays (have a metabuild ready, no need to know mechanics and no-one is looking at your dps). It's fun and exciting, and each session is capped to 2,5 hours for advanced and 1,5 hours for practice. I've never done a full clear, but this way I at least get some kills and have a fun time while I'm at it. :)

    Tl;Dr: If you're not in a guild, look for a friendly one and they'll most likely accept you into their raid runs. Looking on lfg can be a hassle as I don't often see training runs there.

    Well i do already have some of the gear for the Mirage meta build, but i can't get the rest (trinkets) because i don't have LS3. Meanwhile, i can easily switch to chrono for like, 20g or something when i craft commander insignias, i already have full viper's ascended armor. It's just that, i'm not using the meta build for open world or fractals, i'm using the shatter build.

    So idk... I'm not doing anything yet anyway, i won't be switching to chrono just now.

    As for guilds, i am in a guild but it's.... weird... I don't know where most people are, and those who wanted to raid are representing another guild so idk. I'll ask them when i see them online.

  • @Veprovina.4876 said:
    Well i do already have some of the gear for the Mirage meta build, but i can't get the rest (trinkets) because i don't have LS3. Meanwhile, i can easily switch to chrono for like, 20g or something when i craft commander insignias, i already have full viper's ascended armor. It's just that, i'm not using the meta build for open world or fractals, i'm using the shatter build.

    So idk... I'm not doing anything yet anyway, i won't be switching to chrono just now.

    As for guilds, i am in a guild but it's.... weird... I don't know where most people are, and those who wanted to raid are representing another guild so idk. I'll ask them when i see them online.

    Seems you're in a lenient guild when it comes to repping, so you could probably look for another one to interact with :) And yeah, aquiring several ascended sets is a hassle, I have 3 light sets (2 on mesmer) and are considering gearing for chrono just to have more raid options, although I currently can run Magi Druid, Condi Mirage, and Power Dragonhunter. Done kills with all 3 (most with druid but that should change soon as I love my Mirage).

    Damagewise, running around with LS 2 Sinister trinkets is a decent option to viper accessory, at least until you get around to getting LS3. I recently tested the ArcDPS (I'm still mostly against 3rd party dps-meters), and in viper gear I usually just get outdps'd by meta weavers. Kinda depends on the boss, but I was highest damage on 2 bosses so far (in a decent group).

  • Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ildrid Ildhjertet.2489 said:

    @Veprovina.4876 said:
    Well i do already have some of the gear for the Mirage meta build, but i can't get the rest (trinkets) because i don't have LS3. Meanwhile, i can easily switch to chrono for like, 20g or something when i craft commander insignias, i already have full viper's ascended armor. It's just that, i'm not using the meta build for open world or fractals, i'm using the shatter build.

    So idk... I'm not doing anything yet anyway, i won't be switching to chrono just now.

    As for guilds, i am in a guild but it's.... weird... I don't know where most people are, and those who wanted to raid are representing another guild so idk. I'll ask them when i see them online.

    Seems you're in a lenient guild when it comes to repping, so you could probably look for another one to interact with :) And yeah, aquiring several ascended sets is a hassle, I have 3 light sets (2 on mesmer) and are considering gearing for chrono just to have more raid options, although I currently can run Magi Druid, Condi Mirage, and Power Dragonhunter. Done kills with all 3 (most with druid but that should change soon as I love my Mirage).

    Damagewise, running around with LS 2 Sinister trinkets is a decent option to viper accessory, at least until you get around to getting LS3. I recently tested the ArcDPS (I'm still mostly against 3rd party dps-meters), and in viper gear I usually just get outdps'd by meta weavers. Kinda depends on the boss, but I was highest damage on 2 bosses so far (in a decent group).

    Well if i'm switching to chrono i'm not going to get a whole new set of ascended, that'll take too long, i'll just convert the viper armor in the mystic forge. I already have maguuma burls, it'll be pretty cheap to convert it to commander's. And i already have berserker trinkets that chrono requires so it's easier for me to get the meta gear for chrono than it is for mirage. Oh, and i don't have LS2 either. :tongue:

    I suppose i couold WvW for trinkets, but i don't really want to do that.

    So if i'm switching to chrono, it's permanent lol, switching back to mirage costs a hell of a lot (black diamonds), and don't get me started on trailblazer's which is actually perfect for a confusion shatter build.

    Both chrono and mirage are fun in their own way anway, so i'll just have to see...

    If i switch to chrono, how is the open world damage? Cause mirage can beat the living kitten out of everything in open world, can chrono do some decent damage so that i can solo some open world stuff now and then?

  • @Veprovina.4876 said:
    Well if i'm switching to chrono i'm not going to get a whole new set of ascended, that'll take too long, i'll just convert the viper armor in the mystic forge. I already have maguuma burls, it'll be pretty cheap to convert it to commander's. And i already have berserker trinkets that chrono requires so it's easier for me to get the meta gear for chrono than it is for mirage. Oh, and i don't have LS2 either. :tongue:

    Makes sense.. I have a celestial light set that I'm only using on ele in wvw, but it's too time gated for me to restat it :p

    I suppose i couold WvW for trinkets, but i don't really want to do that.

    So if i'm switching to chrono, it's permanent lol, switching back to mirage costs a hell of a lot (black diamonds), and don't get me started on trailblazer's which is actually perfect for a confusion shatter build.

    Both chrono and mirage are fun in their own way anway, so i'll just have to see...

    True, I prefer Mirage but that's obviously individual :)

    If i switch to chrono, how is the open world damage? Cause mirage can beat the living kitten out of everything in open world, can chrono do some decent damage so that i can solo some open world stuff now and then?

    I'm not sure as I've only played as chrono with assassin armor and berserker trinkets, but at some point in LS3 I stopped playing my mesmer because I failed to progress due to low survivability and not enough damage. Picked it up again in preparation for PoF and I died a fair bit but I managed somehow (think I went back to core power mesmer tbh). Might want to post in the Mesmer forum and ask there about chrono damage. :) Now on Mirage I still die occasionally but I feel powerful! :D

  • Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ildrid Ildhjertet.2489 said:

    I'm not sure as I've only played as chrono with assassin armor and berserker trinkets, but at some point in LS3 I stopped playing my mesmer because I failed to progress due to low survivability and not enough damage. Picked it up again in preparation for PoF and I died a fair bit but I managed somehow (think I went back to core power mesmer tbh). Might want to post in the Mesmer forum and ask there about chrono damage. :) Now on Mirage I still die occasionally but I feel powerful! :D

    But this thread is about raiding, so in that context, i can't be meta with mirage, i don't have LS2 and LS3 to get the full trinkets, and the core ones are not really good for that either (plus i'm not wasting laurels or guild commendations on amulets and trinkets with non meta stats if i'm going to raid). So in context of raiding, i'm 20-30 gold from a meta build for chronomancer, but about 800+ gems and what not for a meta build for mirage. So understandably, it's easier to switch to chrono.

    But yeah, mirage is amazing in a lot of content. I do feel powerful when playing it. I die on legendaries or something if i'm too lazy to pay attention, but generally, it's really good damage. When i played chrono, i didn't clear trash mobs so fast like i do with mirage. But chrono was better to play in fractals, mirage is good in fractals, but i like chrono's control skills better.

    One thing i'll miss like hell if i switch to chrono is going to be mirage cloak. This is the best ability ever. xD

  • @Veprovina.4876 said:
    But this thread is about raiding, so in that context, i can't be meta with mirage, i don't have LS2 and LS3 to get the full trinkets, and the core ones are not really good for that either (plus i'm not wasting laurels or guild commendations on amulets and trinkets with non meta stats if i'm going to raid). So in context of raiding, i'm 20-30 gold from a meta build for chronomancer, but about 800+ gems and what not for a meta build for mirage. So understandably, it's easier to switch to chrono.

    Yeah I totally get that. I would still advertise spending the 800 gems though, as LS2 and 3 are great (imo).

    But yeah, mirage is amazing in a lot of content. I do feel powerful when playing it. I die on legendaries or something if i'm too lazy to pay attention, but generally, it's really good damage. When i played chrono, i didn't clear trash mobs so fast like i do with mirage. But chrono was better to play in fractals, mirage is good in fractals, but i like chrono's control skills better.

    And people will probably always expect the mesmer to play chrono :( At least having a high damage spec as an alternative is really good, inb4 balance patch next tuesday :p

    One thing i'll miss like hell if i switch to chrono is going to be mirage cloak. This is the best ability ever. xD

    Haha yeah, Mirage cloak has saved me so many times! Also the superspeed is amazing for getting out of AoE :D

  • Syktek.7912Syktek.7912 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 4, 2017

    For most, it's pretty time consuming. The only way to make it smooth is to find a core group and gain experience with them, record your DPS and performances, learn together. Eventually you will be able to clear all four wings in under three hours.

    Or you say "DPS meters and core groups are elitist they should carry me while I put in no effort and lie about everything" and repeatedly get kicked from PUGs for it. Then complain on the forums instead of attempting to improve. All while saying "GW2 is easy" while failing miserably at it.

    F̖͎̜̪̎ͩ̃̍͜ő̠̿͐̾͐r̤̙͎̯͍̋̔̚u̬̮̺̒͒̔ͤͬm̷̪̳̝̮ ̰͔̖̩̬̯̀̑͆D̞̩̤̣̈̉̑̀ͧr͎̪̞͍͉ͬ́̌̈ͩ̿͜a̴̭m̴̠̓̀ͫ͗ͯ̒aͯͦ͝

  • @Syktek.7912 said:
    For most, especially folks on this forum, it's pretty time consuming. The only way to make it smooth is to find a core group and gain experience with them, record your DPS and performances, learn together. Eventually you will be able to clear all four wings in under three hours.

    Or you say "DPS meters and core groups are elitist they should carry me while I put in no effort and lie about everything" and repeatedly get kicked from PUGs for it. Then complain on the forums instead of attempting to improve. All while saying "GW2 is easy" while failing miserably at it.

    Yeah I agree with this. Many players seem to think they deserve to just be carried or something. Tho the people who do raids in a timely manner are often the ones who play with select static groups. Now I do not think that DPS meters are needed as GW2 is easy. They are nice tho.

  • Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭

    @FiveOne.8451 said:

    @Syktek.7912 said:
    For most, especially folks on this forum, it's pretty time consuming. The only way to make it smooth is to find a core group and gain experience with them, record your DPS and performances, learn together. Eventually you will be able to clear all four wings in under three hours.

    Or you say "DPS meters and core groups are elitist they should carry me while I put in no effort and lie about everything" and repeatedly get kicked from PUGs for it. Then complain on the forums instead of attempting to improve. All while saying "GW2 is easy" while failing miserably at it.

    Yeah I agree with this. Many players seem to think they deserve to just be carried or something. Tho the people who do raids in a timely manner are often the ones who play with select static groups. Now I do not think that DPS meters are needed as GW2 is easy. They are nice tho.

    Umm, who are you two mad at? :tongue: I never asked to be carried, i just asked if it's viable for me to learn raids and play them in a limited time frame. I don't expect people to carry me, that's boring, if i'm going to raid, then i'm going to actually play raids, what's the point otherwise? I'm not interested in raiding for rewards, i want to play some new content.

    I mean, of course i'm not going to be perfect the first time, and someone will have to teach me raiding, show me how the mechanics work, what to do and when. But beyond that, i wanna play, not sit in the corner while others play for me.

    Also, what's a core group? :tongue:

  • @Veprovina.4876 said:

    @FiveOne.8451 said:

    @Syktek.7912 said:
    For most, especially folks on this forum, it's pretty time consuming. The only way to make it smooth is to find a core group and gain experience with them, record your DPS and performances, learn together. Eventually you will be able to clear all four wings in under three hours.

    Or you say "DPS meters and core groups are elitist they should carry me while I put in no effort and lie about everything" and repeatedly get kicked from PUGs for it. Then complain on the forums instead of attempting to improve. All while saying "GW2 is easy" while failing miserably at it.

    Yeah I agree with this. Many players seem to think they deserve to just be carried or something. Tho the people who do raids in a timely manner are often the ones who play with select static groups. Now I do not think that DPS meters are needed as GW2 is easy. They are nice tho.

    Umm, who are you two mad at? :tongue: I never asked to be carried, i just asked if it's viable for me to learn raids and play them in a limited time frame. I don't expect people to carry me, that's boring, if i'm going to raid, then i'm going to actually play raids, what's the point otherwise? I'm not interested in raiding for rewards, i want to play some new content.

    I mean, of course i'm not going to be perfect the first time, and someone will have to teach me raiding, show me how the mechanics work, what to do and when. But beyond that, i wanna play, not sit in the corner while others play for me.

    Also, what's a core group? :tongue:

    I dont think they where referring to you, but it was a more general statement. Anyone who have done alot of training runs have meet people that seem surprised by the fact that they cant just afk and get loot. Not many of them, but we meet them. And its easy to remember the 5 bad ables and forget the 200 good raiders that you have meet (human nature).

    core group = static group = same group of 10 (or fewer) that meet and raid every week toghether

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭

    These are the shortest raids you will experience in any game. Most fights are over in 5 minutes or less. They're incredibly easy compared to WoW/FFXIV/Wildstar raids.

  • Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2017

    @Sigfodr.9576 said:

    @Veprovina.4876 said:

    @FiveOne.8451 said:

    @Syktek.7912 said:
    For most, especially folks on this forum, it's pretty time consuming. The only way to make it smooth is to find a core group and gain experience with them, record your DPS and performances, learn together. Eventually you will be able to clear all four wings in under three hours.

    Or you say "DPS meters and core groups are elitist they should carry me while I put in no effort and lie about everything" and repeatedly get kicked from PUGs for it. Then complain on the forums instead of attempting to improve. All while saying "GW2 is easy" while failing miserably at it.

    Yeah I agree with this. Many players seem to think they deserve to just be carried or something. Tho the people who do raids in a timely manner are often the ones who play with select static groups. Now I do not think that DPS meters are needed as GW2 is easy. They are nice tho.

    Umm, who are you two mad at? :tongue: I never asked to be carried, i just asked if it's viable for me to learn raids and play them in a limited time frame. I don't expect people to carry me, that's boring, if i'm going to raid, then i'm going to actually play raids, what's the point otherwise? I'm not interested in raiding for rewards, i want to play some new content.

    I mean, of course i'm not going to be perfect the first time, and someone will have to teach me raiding, show me how the mechanics work, what to do and when. But beyond that, i wanna play, not sit in the corner while others play for me.

    Also, what's a core group? :tongue:

    I dont think they where referring to you, but it was a more general statement. Anyone who have done alot of training runs have meet people that seem surprised by the fact that they cant just afk and get loot. Not many of them, but we meet them. And its easy to remember the 5 bad ables and forget the 200 good raiders that you have meet (human nature).

    core group = static group = same group of 10 (or fewer) that meet and raid every week toghether

    Yeah i figured it was kinda general. :tongue:
    Same thing happens in fractals too, it's beyond me how people got to tier 3 and still don't know the mechanics. And fractals unlike raids have tiers, you level up and get tons of practice due to how levels and agony works lol. And somehow people still fail the simplest bosses...

    Oh well, happens i guess. Personally, i have no problem "carrying" tier 1 newbies, i consider that mentoring for later. But you shouldn't have to mentor someone in tier 3 or 4...

    Same with raids i suppose. It should be fine when someone's new, but after a few runs, you should start to have a grasp at least on what to do and how and attempt to get better. Not everything has to be a speedrun, but still. I get where you're coming from. When someone repeatedly fails and makes no effort to improve it's not fun.

  • Zenith.7301Zenith.7301 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Veprovina.4876 said:

    @Sigfodr.9576 said:

    @Veprovina.4876 said:

    @FiveOne.8451 said:

    @Syktek.7912 said:
    For most, especially folks on this forum, it's pretty time consuming. The only way to make it smooth is to find a core group and gain experience with them, record your DPS and performances, learn together. Eventually you will be able to clear all four wings in under three hours.

    Or you say "DPS meters and core groups are elitist they should carry me while I put in no effort and lie about everything" and repeatedly get kicked from PUGs for it. Then complain on the forums instead of attempting to improve. All while saying "GW2 is easy" while failing miserably at it.

    Yeah I agree with this. Many players seem to think they deserve to just be carried or something. Tho the people who do raids in a timely manner are often the ones who play with select static groups. Now I do not think that DPS meters are needed as GW2 is easy. They are nice tho.

    Umm, who are you two mad at? :tongue: I never asked to be carried, i just asked if it's viable for me to learn raids and play them in a limited time frame. I don't expect people to carry me, that's boring, if i'm going to raid, then i'm going to actually play raids, what's the point otherwise? I'm not interested in raiding for rewards, i want to play some new content.

    I mean, of course i'm not going to be perfect the first time, and someone will have to teach me raiding, show me how the mechanics work, what to do and when. But beyond that, i wanna play, not sit in the corner while others play for me.

    Also, what's a core group? :tongue:

    I dont think they where referring to you, but it was a more general statement. Anyone who have done alot of training runs have meet people that seem surprised by the fact that they cant just afk and get loot. Not many of them, but we meet them. And its easy to remember the 5 bad ables and forget the 200 good raiders that you have meet (human nature).

    core group = static group = same group of 10 (or fewer) that meet and raid every week toghether

    Yeah i figured it was kinda general. :tongue:
    Same thing happens in fractals too, it's beyond me how people got to tier 3 and still don't know the mechanics. And fractals unlike raids have tiers, you level up and get tons of practice due to how levels and agony works lol. And somehow people still fail the simplest bosses...

    Oh well, happens i guess. Personally, i have no problem "carrying" tier 1 newbies, i consider that mentoring for later. But you shouldn't have to mentor someone in tier 3 or 4...

    Same with raids i suppose. It should be fine when someone's new, but after a few runs, you should start to have a grasp at least on what to do and how and attempt to get better. Not everything has to be a speedrun, but still. I get where you're coming from. When someone repeatedly fails and makes no effort to improve it's not fun.

    They don't learn by tier 3 or 4 because the mechanics are not punishing enough to force them to learn.

    It's why WoW/FFXIV work with their dungeons. The starter experience can involve critical points of failure. The lower tier fractals do no damage to the group whatsoever, and in the case of shattered observatory and nightmare many of the mechanics are absent.

    The game is also wholly incompetent at teaching newcomers high end PvE because most of what they do while leveling is braindead open world events and hearts that don't teach them any mechanics.

    Most other games also have leveling dungeons for learning group content mechanisms, but as you well know Anet completely abandoned dungeons.

    So are you really surprised when the vast majority of the game lets you facetank most kitten because even if you do go down the zerg will rez you or you can afk defeated while others do the kill, that you get people in instanced PvE who think they can get away with the same lack of effort and attention?

  • Rennie.6750Rennie.6750 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 5, 2017

    Very.

    Here's a quick 'to do' list:

    1 - the quest for some training runs: several hours/days looking for them in game or on the forums.
    2 - the training runs: don't expect to achieve anything with less than 1h/1h30 for the easiest bosses. Not counting forming the group and initial chitchat.
    3 - watching youtube videos and reading guides for more complicated bosses. Of course, none of them are comprehensive so that's even longer.
    4 - several hours wiping on more complex bosses and no kill to show for it while learning.
    5 - once you're ready, finding a suitable static group. Probably several days/weeks.

    So if you have limited time, I would advise not to raid. First you're not missing on anything except some gold and some very confusing encounters, then it's first and foremost a social experience, so unless that's what you're looking for, it's probably not a good idea. Don't imagine you have a grasp on it because you play fractals. Raiding is about people, not about bosses.

  • Neutra.6857Neutra.6857 Member ✭✭✭

    My group spends about 4 hours a week doing bosses. 2 hours on Friday and 2 on Saturday. we normally get through everything but Deimos since we only recently began learning about Deimos and still working on getting hand kiting right.

  • Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭

    Thank you all for your input and advice. It seems like i won't be doing raids just yet since i barely have time to play Gw2 let alone find a core group, and be available and online at a very specific time so that i can do this properly. And i guess doing raids randomly isn't going to work so i'll sadly have to postpone this indefinitely, until i have more time. My main problem is, i've been trying to normalize my schedule but i can't consistently find any hours in the week that i'm 100% uninterrupted and available, and even then, i'd have to find a group of people that are the same so yeah... :disappointed:

  • @Veprovina.4876 said:
    Well as i said, i'm in no hurry, and i don't expect to be pro at it from the start. I'll just have to organize my schedule so i can see when i can play without interruption. Then i'll see about getting a raid group.

    On the bright side. Today i did the labyrinth and a precursor for the flameseeker prophecies dropped. :smiley: I'll take that as a sign that i need to switch to chronomancer, and work on my legendary! :smile:

    It could actually be a good thing maybe if i start doing fractals with the chrono to practice rotations. Cause Mirage is fun, but it's kinda mindless too, just spam clones and shatter, or in the meta build, spam phantasms and do stuff...

    Maybe this really is the sign that i should switch to chronomancer. :wink:

    @Veprovina.4876 said:

    @Ildrid Ildhjertet.2489 said:

    I'm not sure as I've only played as chrono with assassin armor and berserker trinkets, but at some point in LS3 I stopped playing my mesmer because I failed to progress due to low survivability and not enough damage. Picked it up again in preparation for PoF and I died a fair bit but I managed somehow (think I went back to core power mesmer tbh). Might want to post in the Mesmer forum and ask there about chrono damage. :) Now on Mirage I still die occasionally but I feel powerful! :D

    But this thread is about raiding, so in that context, i can't be meta with mirage, i don't have LS2 and LS3 to get the full trinkets, and the core ones are not really good for that either (plus i'm not wasting laurels or guild commendations on amulets and trinkets with non meta stats if i'm going to raid). So in context of raiding, i'm 20-30 gold from a meta build for chronomancer, but about 800+ gems and what not for a meta build for mirage. So understandably, it's easier to switch to chrono.

    But yeah, mirage is amazing in a lot of content. I do feel powerful when playing it. I die on legendaries or something if i'm too lazy to pay attention, but generally, it's really good damage. When i played chrono, i didn't clear trash mobs so fast like i do with mirage. But chrono was better to play in fractals, mirage is good in fractals, but i like chrono's control skills better.

    One thing i'll miss like hell if i switch to chrono is going to be mirage cloak. This is the best ability ever. xD

    Best to stay away from mirage in this meta cause in burst fights (pretty much all fractals /raids) the ramp up time is ridiculous.

  • Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭

    @DutchRiders.2871 said:

    @Veprovina.4876 said:
    Well as i said, i'm in no hurry, and i don't expect to be pro at it from the start. I'll just have to organize my schedule so i can see when i can play without interruption. Then i'll see about getting a raid group.

    On the bright side. Today i did the labyrinth and a precursor for the flameseeker prophecies dropped. :smiley: I'll take that as a sign that i need to switch to chronomancer, and work on my legendary! :smile:

    It could actually be a good thing maybe if i start doing fractals with the chrono to practice rotations. Cause Mirage is fun, but it's kinda mindless too, just spam clones and shatter, or in the meta build, spam phantasms and do stuff...

    Maybe this really is the sign that i should switch to chronomancer. :wink:

    @Veprovina.4876 said:

    @Ildrid Ildhjertet.2489 said:

    I'm not sure as I've only played as chrono with assassin armor and berserker trinkets, but at some point in LS3 I stopped playing my mesmer because I failed to progress due to low survivability and not enough damage. Picked it up again in preparation for PoF and I died a fair bit but I managed somehow (think I went back to core power mesmer tbh). Might want to post in the Mesmer forum and ask there about chrono damage. :) Now on Mirage I still die occasionally but I feel powerful! :D

    But this thread is about raiding, so in that context, i can't be meta with mirage, i don't have LS2 and LS3 to get the full trinkets, and the core ones are not really good for that either (plus i'm not wasting laurels or guild commendations on amulets and trinkets with non meta stats if i'm going to raid). So in context of raiding, i'm 20-30 gold from a meta build for chronomancer, but about 800+ gems and what not for a meta build for mirage. So understandably, it's easier to switch to chrono.

    But yeah, mirage is amazing in a lot of content. I do feel powerful when playing it. I die on legendaries or something if i'm too lazy to pay attention, but generally, it's really good damage. When i played chrono, i didn't clear trash mobs so fast like i do with mirage. But chrono was better to play in fractals, mirage is good in fractals, but i like chrono's control skills better.

    One thing i'll miss like hell if i switch to chrono is going to be mirage cloak. This is the best ability ever. xD

    Best to stay away from mirage in this meta cause in burst fights (pretty much all fractals /raids) the ramp up time is ridiculous.

    Yeah, if and when i get into raiding i'm switching to chronomancer, but as i said, i just don't have the time now. Too bad... Oh well. Life, priorities and kitten... :confused:

  • Just join in any pug group in your free time in LFG and try to learn the mechanic first, don't expect to kill any boss if all of the pugs are inexperience xD
    Enjoy the "wiping" experience first.

  • Exciton.8942Exciton.8942 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 7, 2017

    Have you tried fractal 99&100CM? Difficulty wise, they are very close to typical raid bosses.

    Finding a static group is definitely the best. Overall, I suggest two 2 to 3-hour sessions per week, which should be enough for progression.

    The time investment is very front loaded. It takes a lot of practice to get good at each boss encounter. But once you are there, it takes 30-40min to clear a full raid wing.

  • Veprovina.4876Veprovina.4876 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm at T3 fractals. It's kinda hard to find groups that do them, even for the dailies .

    Well, if i find the time i'll try some pugs, if not, there's still a lot of the game i haven't done.

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