Official Mount Adoption Feedback Thread [merged]

[thequeenofbees.4250]

I honestly think a lot of the problems people have with the system would be changed if it was possible to sell the skins you got on the trading post. I am not at all a fan of rng systems like this and the fact that there's only a 1 in 30 chance to actually get any given skin is so so frustrating. From the reaction to this feature it's clear that a lot of the community agree with me on this. In a perfect world I would love a system where you could just buy individual skins in the gem store, and I would be willing to pay a higher price, even potentially around 1000 gems for a skin that I really like. But, considering this system has already been added I honestly think it would be a good idea to just add the ability to trade the skins on the trading post from here on out. I think that would be a good compromise that would keep the main part of the system intact while still giving people who might only want a couple of the skins the ability to get them for a marked up price from the trading post.

[Fallesafe.5932]

@inriver.9813 said:Since there is no way to reach you other than than through a forum (i dislike public drama myself) -> here is my first (well, second, i discouraged someone from buying PoF in another thread 10 minutes ago) and likely last post:

I have used an amount of real life money on your gemstore that my friends/colleagues would consider a sign of addiction. I have gifted gemstore stuff for other players and financed my guildies with less disposable income to obtain HoT and PoF. There has been a slow decline in quality since vanilla GW2. Now with your latest patch demonstrating that i am clearly not one of the customers you care about (not to mention your recent shenanigans in WvW on SoS), I will no longer be making any purchases from your gemstore and will be gradually withdrawing from the game (i unfortunately still have good friends in game so i cant do an abrupt disappearance).

I hope the people whom you supported through this patch make up for the income loss.

Yea, ok. See you in 2 weeks.

[Exosferatu.2961]

Arena Net, you should've tried a different approach to the Mount Adoption content. Getting these mount skins should be similar to Precursor Crafting. You also have to keep in mind that you have to reward your playerbase for spending time playing your game.

[Suziana.3759]

Let's talk about the new mount skins, available from the Black Lion Trading Co. for 9500 gems, or $120 US, or $153 CDN.

Here's the deal with gem store purchases. I'm not against them, but I have a problem when new content is only available through them; and things like new mount skins, which gets everybody excited, is new content. Like I said, it's cool if ANET releases new skins in the store to get some revenue, but they haven't released a single mount skin (as of Nov 7, 2017) that you can earn in game through questing or otherwise. That's a problem.

1. It doesn't feel good to take out my cc and pay for a skin like it does to earn it. Then I can say," yeah I just spent the last hour on this cool quest line that gave me this skin at the end, or this repeatable heart quest NPC has cool mount skins I can purchase with the trade contracts I accumulated from playing the game." It sounds stupid in my head to say, "yeah I just spent $153 CDN to buy the 30 license mount skin pack because I really wanted this particular one but it's random number generated. I didn't want to gamble, and paying for them individually costs even more in the long run so...."

2. It's not "just aesthetics." No one wants to look basic while playing a fantasy game. If every new aesthetic they release is just something you need to buy, it gets old real quick. Guild Wars 2 is, sans core version, a buy to play MMORPG game. To me this means I'd like some rewarding content to incite me to keep playing; to have goals to work towards. I don't mind spending a reasonable amount of money here and there (let's say $10-20 a month) on cosmetic things in the gem store to show my love and support for the game and all the effort put into developing it, but I will never spend $153 all in one go; that's more than the Ultimate Edition of their newest expansion and then some. Don't think I haven't noticed these skins are available for "only 7 days," creating an artificial urgency to impulse buy.

Add some skins acquirable through playing your game to off set the ones purchasable through the gem store.
Yours truly,

Player, Emissary of the Mad King Who Won't Indulge These Ridiculous Prices

PS - On a relatable note, glider skins are in the same boat. There are currently only 3 available glider skins, not including basic glider, that are available to earn in game as of Nov 7, 2017: Warbringer (PVP rank 6), Ad Infinitum and The Ascension. Heart of Thorns released in 2015. Let that sink in.

[Zaklex.6308]

First off, stop COMPLAINING, IT IS NOT GAMBLING, since you are GUARANTEED to win something, and since you WILL NOT get duplicates there's nothing to worry about. Plus, NO one is FORCING you to buy gems to get the BLS mount skins...it's entirely OPTIONAL, just like everything else from the gem store...it is ALL OPTIONAL, you CHOOSE to purchase items from the store, no one makes you except yourself.

P.S. - REAL consumers(those that work for a living) SPEND their money to support the economy, those that don't would rather not see the economy grow...it's all based on consumer spending.

[StonedCat.3518]

This has been a brutal year for companies shoving gambling mechanics into otherwise promising games. I hope legislators come down on the practice like a ton of bricks in the near future. Not only is adding gambling-like mechanics to games exploitative of anyone who's struggling with gambling problems already, but it also feels sleazy as hell.

Up until now GW2's buyable loot boxes were either low-value (Black Lion Chests) or could be avoided by trading (dyes). The mounts are the first full-on "you have to gamble premium currency to get what you want" system in the game which is why I think everyone is so upset. Personally, I find it very disappointing. Path of Fire was such a good expansion and I was thoroughly enjoying it but this addition leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I was expecting paid mount skins - I wasn't expecting this.

Have I been deprived of anything? No. But it feels really sleazy and I've lost a lot of trust in ANet as a result.

[Erasculio.2914]

Some suggestions:

• Remove the RNG entirely and instead sell each skin individually. Make the prices go from 400 gems (the most basic skins) to 800 (the middle ground) to 1600 (the ones with the most particle effects).

• Add some of the simplest skins to the game as in-game rewards. Right now there's not much to be done in PoF, being able to get a single skin with four dye channels in game would be a nice incentive for players to remain in the PoF maps.

• Or, at least sell licences for each type of mount separatelly. Instead of having a chance of 1/30 to get the skin someone wants, players would have a chance of 1/6 (considering how each type of mount has at most 6 skins). Players who don't have the griffon and don't plan to unlock it any time soon wouldn't have to pay to end with skins for a mount they don't have, for example.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

I think an actual response might've been nice than just piling all of the comments into one.It's fine though. No problems here.

[Shocktor.4570]

Looks like I'm late to this party... For those people saying that ANet is suddenly getting into the lootbox business: ANet was one of the pioneers! The Black Lion chests are a loot box and has been here since 2012!

I'm just curious how this is suddenly news that everyone is getting upset about?

Here's my feedback: Just put the mount skins on the market as time limited skins and slowly release them over the year. Just like you do for gliders. Apparently, having two different loot boxes makes people angry.

[Niobium.7392]

I've yet to meet someone who says the mounts aren't beautiful.However the acquisition implementation is cynical, manipulative and artless.

I know these descriptors don't thaw the hearts of marketing departments, so I'll put it in terms that address your interests.

Your company has spent over a decade trying to construct a particular image for your brand, a fun loving developer that unlike its contemporaries does not treat its customers like livestock. This image has served your financial interests immeasurably, it allows gem store customers to not regret nor scorn purchasing the delights you proffer them. They're happy to support you.

This descent into gambling madness does nothing to enhance the mount skin experience for the end-user, it only obstructs an item from their immediate consumption. Your users know this, they are not blind. The only conclusion they can reach is that greed has possessed the company hierarchy.

This threatens to self-destruct the premise of your gemstore. Now the end-user equates your company to that of every other loot-box copycat that has sprouted in the last year. This can only negatively consequence your long term fiscal stability. Users are less likely to remain enthusiastic consumers and will search for the door.

Don't let unethical marketing trends poison your blood. You're not built for it.

[Shogun.6870]

1. Nobody enjoys gambling for a skin they want.
2. The Jackal skin is WAY OVERPRICED! Seriously, nice skin but I wouldn't pay more then $5 for it.
3. Let us choose what we want to buy, for future skins and mounts, at reasonable fee. Like most Gliders.
4. Also stop putting unique skins in the BL Chest, it sucks.

My 2 Cents.

[Moonlit.6421]

@Jordan.5930 said:

@Moonlit.6421 said:If the worst problem you have is that unrequired visual items are not easily available to you than I think you'll be fine lol. I don't see why everyone's throwing such a fit over this, you don't need these things to enjoy the game and plenty of f2p players have fun here with minimal stuff. Don't get me wrong I'm an altoholic with a passion for fashion but I recognize and accept there's cool items out there I may never get, but that doesn't mean there aren't a ton of cool items I can acquire. Make the most of it and have fun, if you can't do that then maybe you just need to take a break from this game and try out some others.

At what point did people start forgetting this is an MMORPG? Emphasis on RPG. If you want to create an immersive setting, a roleplay setting if you will, where you play as the mighty warrior, the wise and powerful elementalist, the stealthy thief, cosmetic options are key to that. Your armor, your mount, what sword you wield or magic you use is paramount to that experience. We've all had the experience when we beat the boss and said holy kitten, look at this kitten new sword that I got, that's what makes a game exciting, the sense of reward, and now that's being taken away because if I want a cool mount I can just pay $25 for it. Guild Wars 2 has always tried to stick with the notion of "play your way". I'm the kitten commander and slayer of two dragons in my personal story, so why the hell would I have the same kitten mount as every other common person in the game. My mount should be unique and special to ME, and now because I can't afford to buy $40 worth of mount skins you're telling me I just have to live with it? Well, screw you. Yes, I'll make a fit, yes this affects my gameplay experience and the experience of the player base as a whole, no I will not sit down and just take it.

I'm actually quite aware of this point. As I said in my post I'm quite fond of cosmetics myself in this game, and at this current moment I have 40 characters each with their own unique looks and back stories and more I'm planning in the works once I can save up for some more character slots. I've sent more money on this game than I can keep track of and even went far enough to buy I think it was 97 bl keys to get the dang zaishen helm skin to use on just one of my characters because it looked cool and it fit and gosh darn it I wanted it. All my characters have their own little back stories that I enjoy and personalities I keep in mind when I play them, and I'm fairly attached to them all. I'm well aware of the part it plays and as I said in my second post, I'm not overly fond of the system Anet decided on for their acquisition. However, no matter how much I agree with you or think it would be better your way, "pitching a fit" and whining about it makes me loathe to agree with you and support your argument. It's like if I saw a protests on the street and I maybe agreed with their cause, but the main guy leading the protest is stomping around, getting in people's faces and yelling, and acting like some angry man child. I'm not gonna go pair up with that. If I see a similar petition down the road though, and people can actually control themselves and keep level headed, then there's no reason for me not to voice my agreement with them. That's my personal take on it, make of it what you will.

(Also just noticed this thread got merged into oblivion lol)

[Scarran.9845]

RNG mount skins is an awful route to go and buying skins outright is always what I prefer. I really do not know who thought this would be a good idea considering the amount of public outrage loot boxes have been getting lately.

I refuse to buy into loot boxes and the mount adoption is no different and as a company I expected better from ArenaNet. This stinks of NCSoft pressuring you into what they think you should be selling in the store.

[StonedCat.3518]

I've noticed a few comments basically saying that 1/30 is not that bad of odds and 400 gems per roll is not terrible as a result.

Even granting this is true at the moment - what do you think the situation will look like in a year? ArenaNet will be adding more new mount skins throughout the year. Your odds of getting the skin you want will be decreasing the whole time, unless you spend the ~$100 now and get all the current skins immediately.

This exact situation is playing out in Overwatch. Each new or repeated special event adds new items to the mix. Unless you're playing 20-40 hours a week to keep up with the new items you're screwed in the long run. (But at least in Overwatch you can save up gold and buy the skin you want).

[Aerlen.5326]

Kay. So....

Totally okay with this except for one thing...

You should not get mount skins for mounts you have locked - especially if the mount you have locked is the Griffon. Out of the six contracts I bought, I got two Griffon skins. Griffon is locked for me, I'm not even done with PoF story. While I do plan to get the Griffon and hope that Griffon runs will still exist when I'm ready, it's sort of garbage to have those skins in the pool if the player has Griffon locked. What if they never plan to get it? It's a secret mount that costs 250 gold and has a ton of requirements, it's not like the skimmer, springer, jackal or raptor that you just get handed to you for a story step or a heart quest.

So now I have two Griffon skins and no raptor one.. which is what I wanted.. so all my mounts could be dyed. No complaints about the RNG because honestly, I just wanted mounts with 4-3 dye channels that weren't the spooky ones.

[Drew.1865]

I didn’t read the tooltip before purchasing my gems thinking I would be able to pick out the specific skins I wanted and skins for the only two mounts I use.

Unfortunately for me Anet decided to add RNG gambling to the selection.

If I want to gamble I’ll go to Las Vegas and gamble at an actual casino.

I would love to be able to support the game and purchase items I want but I will never pay for a gambling item again and I will not purchase any gems if this practice continues.

[Timberin Landsend.8370]

I use gems a lot, but I won't waste gems on the chance of getting a mount skin I might want! Show me a mount skin I want and let me buy that.

What's the deal with trying to lure people into spending thousands of gems for the chance to get a specific skin, anyway? Any gambler will tell you that if the odds of getting an item is one in say, thirty, the odds are going to be 1 in 30 every single time you try. It's not like if the odds are one in thirty you'll get what you want after thirty tries. You could go a thousand times and never get what you were looking for.

This is a poor marketing practice, Anet. It's a sucker bet wrapped up in a convenient term ("lootbox").

We admire and respect GW2, show us the same respect. Don't market to us a sales scheme that you yourselves would not stand for.

[Sillytune.1580]

I understand that as a non-monthly subscription MMO game company you NEED to make income

However - this is not the way to do it.I have no problems with mount skins being available for gems purchase only [at least currently until you sneak in a mount skin via CM achi in raids - which's going to be so much awesome]

However, if you're making most of the skins for gems - only purchaseMake a damn catalogue, you've overpriced the living frak out the "forged one" for jackal, however that is "fine" considering that, a player knows for what he's either buying, or saving up gems for.

The randomness part is to be blunt disafrakinpointing.I myself have received the celestial gryphon on a second 400gem purchase, - that does not change the fact, that the mount skin itself should have costed 800gems, and be put in a separate catalogue.

[Zoltar MacRoth.7146]

Phew..... I read as far as I could stand, but 17 pages is a lot. Is there any way to filter this so I can read just anet's responses on this thread? (if any yet)

[Asum.4960]

@Fallesafe.5932 said:-50 will just buy them and not care.-30 will buy them with some apprehension.-10 will scream bloody murder, and buy them anyway.-8 will vow to quit, but come back in a week, and buy them.-and 2 will actually boycott the gem-store or quit.

So, they made a great decision here.

And 50 will be unsatisfied customers in a game that depends on Word-of-mouth marketing.

Sure, it's a short term boost of cash, no doubt. But let's see how long that profit margin surge lasts.

If they want Guild Wars to stick around for a long time still, I'm just not sure trampling on consumer good will is the way to go.While the publishers survive, the game devs usually don't last long when this process starts.

Maybe Anet should learn from the recent death of studios like Visceral Games, or watch what's going on with Bioware atm, or many other of EA's victims, after they forced microtransactions and lootboxes into their previously successful games.

Eventually word gets around, new players dry up and veteran players leave all the time for various reasons.

If I have to choose between a mount skin I like, or two games like The Witcher 3 and Stellaris (easily 500h+ of content) for the same price, I can say without a doubt I won't recommend GW2 to people anymore every chance I get without being obnoxious.

I'm playing Guild Wars since 2005 and I have never been more disappointed with ArenaNet.If that's a great decision and they plan of making more great decisions like it, then I guess I rather be one of the 2.

[PirateSpice.8735]

@Timberin Landsend.8370 said:What's the deal with trying to lure people into spending thousands of gems for the chance to get a specific skin, anyway? Any gambler will tell you that if the odds of getting an item is one in say, thirty, the odds are going to be 1 in 30 every single time you try. It's not like if the odds are one in thirty you'll get what you want after thirty tries. You could go a thousand times and never get what you were looking for.

While I don't agree with Anet's decision here, this isn't entirely true. The system guarantees no duplicates. So after 30 tries, you'll have every skin.

Nevertheless, RNG is a predatory practice and should end. Black Lion chests/keys are bad enough. But this is ridiculous.

[StonedCat.3518]

@Sillytune.1580 said:I understand that as a non-monthly subscription MMO game company you NEED to make income

However - this is not the way to do it.I have no problems with mount skins being available for gems purchase only [at least currently until you sneak in a mount skin via CM achi in raids - which's going to be so much awesome]

However, if you're making most of the skins for gems - only purchaseMake a kitten catalogue, you've overpriced the living frak out the "forged one" for jackal, however that is "fine" considering that, a player knows for what he's either buying, or saving up gems for.

The randomness part is to be blunt disafrakinpointing.I myself have received the celestial gryphon on a second 400gem purchase, - that does not change the fact, that the mount skin itself should have costed 800gems, and be put in a separate catalogue.

I don't mean to judge but it sounds like you hated this change, then went ahead and spent at least 800 gems on contracts anyways :(

This is why we're screwed. I think this will be profitable enough for ANet to leave it in. Proper legislation for this kind of gambling in games can't come soon enough.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

@Zoltar MacRoth.7146 said:Phew..... I read as far as I could stand, but 17 pages is a lot. Is there any way to filter this so I can read just anet's responses on this thread? (if any yet)

They didn't. This is literally all of the topics made today about the mount skins that Arenanet piled into one.If they ever respond, it would be past page 17. The only part of Arenanet in this is the 1st post explaining that there's been too many topics and they piled them all into one.

[Nandafowfa.4295]

I would gladly buy for the first time ever gems to get some of the new skins (which are all amazing and gorgeous, mostly the new Husky Jackal) but I hate gambling and what it brings to a game. It was not needed and It's totally unfair to sell something that maybe, in the end, the customer will not get, but still paid for it. I just hope next time the method to get the skins will be not RNG. I always had such faith and always said to all my friends that Gw2 was super worth to buy and play but things like that make me super sad and the words I always used to praise the game questionable. That's the first time in pretty much 5 years that this game failed me.

[StonedCat.3518]

@PirateSpice.8735 said:

@Timberin Landsend.8370 said:What's the deal with trying to lure people into spending thousands of gems for the chance to get a specific skin, anyway? Any gambler will tell you that if the odds of getting an item is one in say, thirty, the odds are going to be 1 in 30

every single time you try

. It's not like if the odds are one in thirty you'll get what you want after thirty tries. You could go a thousand times and

never

get what you were looking for.

While I don't agree with Anet's decision here, this isn't entirely true. The system guarantees no duplicates. So after 30 tries, you'll have every skin.

By the end of 2018 it'll be 50+ tries. The insidious part is that this train never stops.