Official Mount Adoption Feedback Thread [merged]

[pah.4931]

@SmirkDog.3160 said:

@pah.4931 said:Hi, Anet. Thanks for making a fun game. I'm sorry you're families have grown accustomed to having homes and food. I don't work 4 to 5 hard hours per 8-hour day to earn money just to give it to you for also working hard. Also, I have no idea how businesses or the economy works. I don't understand why, as a company, you are so concerned with making money. GREED. Why don't you grow a conscience and stop worrying about growth and profits and stuff. Gosh!

Have a good day.

Suck up to them more, please. Have you bought all the skins yet, or are you just missing one or two?

Ain't bought a single one. Don't plan to. Don't care to. And my characters still move the same as everyone else; they do as much damage, jump just as high, etc. That's what I love about Anet's cash shop and game design. You buy what you want. And your life changes none at all because of it. They broke 0 promises and are in breach of 0 contracts with its players. If you think this is appalling, then why not go to work for free for the next few days. Maybe then you'll realize that businesses need to make money or they close down.

Go to Lion's Arch. People obviously don't mind this "cash grab" (read: business trying to make money from customers FOR SHAME) as much as you think.

[Wolfheart.7483]

@Roadkill.2374 said:

@SmirkDog.3160 said:

@Wolfheart.7483 said:Obviously, y'know, I mean for the future, not just right this second. And, y'know, there were Halloween mount skins and the Reforged Warhound. So, y'know, the adoption contracts haven't actually bee the

only

way to get new mount skins. Y'know.

Except it would be nice to, oh I don't know, maybe acquire them some other way by like, uh......... hm................... maybe

playing the game

? Instead of just buying them?

Exactly what I was saying few pages back. Let us earn them ingame! They gave us only one dye channel mounts so they can milk us on them later.

They gave you a basic, one-dye channel, mount and offered upgraded (cosmetic upgrade only) versions for sale. How is that not ok? They can't force you (i.e. milk you) to buy them. It's not like they said you have to buy the skins or your mounts cease to function.

[NecroSummonsMors.7816]

Ah RNG and lootboxes what a lovely greedy thing to see again...I hate RNG never bought anything involved with it, I've bought gems with gold in game and real cash but i bought them for the exact item I wanted in my case especially outfits and armor skins. Here's the problem Anet I would gladly buy gems for a skin if I know that I get what I want otherwise what's the point on buying something that has some % of rate to get an item?Logic says there's no point.Wanna sell a lot of skins? Because it's clear more than ever you need cash from mounts, and I get it, a game it's business and after all you make money with it.Advice: Lower the prices and let the people choose what item they want, you'll see people will buy a ton of them simply because they don't feel forced/scammed to waste money on it.So you tried to put a single defined skin which is the Reforged Warhound, which I think it's really really cool. Wanna know why I don't buy it? Because it's 2000 gems which is 25 euros. In my mind I basically do this confront: Does a skin for 25 eur equal almost the value for your expasion PoF (29,99 eur)? And as you can understand the answer is simply no.

Anet I get it you want to make money with mounts, all the playerbase saw it miles away, but this is not the way you do it. This way only upset players and make you look really like another greedy company. As I said lower prices, defined item and you'll get all the cash you want from players.

[Danikat.8537]

At the risk of being redundant ( ;) ) here's all my feedback in one, hopefully constructive, post:

I like the new mount skins - I think they're well made and the detail on some of them is wonderful. I also like the fact that they're dyable because it adds even more opportunity to get the mount that's exactly right for you and adds extra value by allowing you to customise them for each character. I also like that there's a good mix of 'plain' skins and flashy ones with particle effects, extra animations and so on.

I'm also happy with the price - I think 300-400 gems for a mount skin is very reasonable. Based on what I've spent on mounts in other games and on other cosmetics in GW2 I'd be willing to go as high as 1000 gems for the right skin. ('Right' is entirely subjective - it's one which looks amazing to me and is also perfect for one or more of my characters.)

However there are a few skins I do not personally like and would not choose to buy or use (in my case that's mainly the fire/lava ones). Normally that would be a non-issue because I simply wouldn't buy those skins. However in this case it's a complete deal-breaker because I do not get to choose which skin I buy. Instead I have to gamble for them and if I get one I don't like and won't use I've wasted the money and my only option is to keep trying, and trying until I get the ones I do want - likely resulting in me spending far more than I normally would to buy the skins I want.

I have no objection to gambling in general. If other people want that option then they're welcome to it. However I personally refuse point-blank to engage in any form of gambling with real money. Which means it's very important to me that it is an option. In this case it is not because the only way to get these skins is to gamble for them. (Or to buy the entire set, for about £106, way above what I'd be willing to pay, especially since I don't like some of them. (I'm aware I could buy gems with gold to circumvent the real money aspect of this - but I don't want to do that because I doubt Anet keeps track of gem store sales in this much detail so that would just register as me buying the RNG mount unlock and count as a 'vote' in favour of the system.)

There are 2 ways this could be 'fixed' and make the system perfectly fine for me:1) Remove the random aspect - either sell the skins directly in the gem store or when we buy and use an Adoption Licence let us choose which mount we get.2) Make the skins tradable. Instead of being added to your wardrobe immediately they could be an item you can use or sell (like mini pets and some weapon skins). That way someone still has to gamble for them and Anet still gets their inflated sale price, but those of us who would rather not participate in that system can buy the ones we want directly. (This has the added bonus that people who choose to gamble and then get a skin they don't like can get a 'compensation prize' by selling it for gold.)

[Wolfheart.7483]

@pah.4931 said:

@SmirkDog.3160 said:

@pah.4931 said:Hi, Anet. Thanks for making a fun game. I'm sorry you're families have grown accustomed to having homes and food. I don't work 4 to 5 hard hours per 8-hour day to earn money just to give it to you for also working hard. Also, I have no idea how businesses or the economy works. I don't understand why, as a company, you are so concerned with making money. GREED. Why don't you grow a conscience and stop worrying about growth and profits and stuff. Gosh!

Have a good day.

Suck up to them more, please. Have you bought all the skins yet, or are you just missing one or two?

Ain't bought a single one. Don't plan to. Don't care to. And my characters still move the same as everyone else; they do as much damage, jump just as high, etc. That's what I love about Anet's cash shop and game design. You buy what you want. And your life changes none at all because of it. They broke 0 promises and are in breach of 0 contracts with its players. If you think this is appalling, then why not go to work for free for the next few days. Maybe then you'll realize that businesses need to make money or they close down.

Go to Lion's Arch. People obviously don't mind this "cash grab" (read: business trying to make money from customers FOR SHAME) as much as you think.

Absolutely.

[Shadowzerk.4715]

@Jaquelidor.2618 said:I'm a returning player after several years away from the game so I'm not all that familiar with how common the use of lootboxes is in the game. I do know that other than the Black Lion Chests thus far the only RNG I've been exposed to in the Gem store have been the dyes. I'm not a fan of RNG lootboxes and rarely buy one. I know what I want and that's what I want to pay for. Same reason I don't buy blind boxes or subscribe to things like Loot Crate. So while I do find a couple of the skins something I would buy outright none are enough to get me to buy lootboxes or to spend $120 for the license to get a tonne of skins I don't care for.

BL Chests, Dyes, Minis and other things like memories box.the most evil are the BLChest, i bought all my keys (and sometimes got it from drop, storyline and few free ones from ANet), and i have NEVER got anything good from those chests. if u r after wild magic backpack/glider, u need luck and/or a lot of money, if u r lucky 1 BL key is all u need, if u r unlucky u might need 170+ keys.

[SmirkDog.3160]

@pah.4931 said:Go to Lion's Arch. People obviously don't mind this "cash grab" (read: business trying to make money from customers FOR SHAME) as much as you think.

Actually they do mind as much as I think, because this thread (or these merged redundant threads) blew up and all the polls have at least 80% of voters saying 'no' or 'take out the RNG'. The only people you'll see in Lion's Arch showing off their mounts are the gullible whales that will buy any and every item from the gem store because they want it first and want to feel special. There will always be mindless supporters who never stop to think, but it's pretty clear that the majority of players are extremely displeased.

[WingedLass.7456]

@pah.4931 said:

If you think this is appalling, then why not go to work for free for the next few days. Maybe then you'll realize that businesses need to make money or they close down.

Except no one is saying not to sell them. In fact, some are saying to feel free to sell them for more gems per piece, and we'll still buy them. We don't need them for free. People are saying that they would like to be able to pick what to spend their money on, not that they're not willing to spend money on cosmetics.

For Anet, this is probably a viable way to make the most possible money out of it, and it's entirely likely they'll put out more skins later (whether individually or also via the stables). But for part of the playerbase, the randomized aspect is where they object, as I am.

Yes, they're free to make money. They're even free to make this decision, as much as I may not like it. But it's not as if everyone is telling them not to sell them at all, or not to make money at all. The danger in the approach they've taken is that, while they may make more money instantly this way, it also makes for a lot of dissatisfied players. The same players they want encouraging others to play GW2.

[Aya.6321]

So are we going to get any news or feedback from ANET about the atrocity of this or are we just going to let them watch us mangle each other and wait for it to blow over? THIS IS BS. Why can't they ever just talk to us. Coddle us. Explain to us the situation. Come up with a solution.

None of that is happening. When there is quite a kitten storm right in front of them and they're going to just pretend it's not happening.They don't care. They're ignoring us all the way to the bank.

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

Oh fun, the first merge of the threads. Get ready for this to disappear on the boards now. Seriously, this is a bad idea Anet. You have made a huge mistake here and changing the mount skins to a pay for what you actually want method is your only course out of this one.

[Roadkill.2374]

@Wolfheart.7483 said:

@Roadkill.2374 said:

@SmirkDog.3160 said:

@Wolfheart.7483 said:Obviously, y'know, I mean for the future, not just right this second. And, y'know, there were Halloween mount skins and the Reforged Warhound. So, y'know, the adoption contracts haven't actually bee the

only

way to get new mount skins. Y'know.

Except it would be nice to, oh I don't know, maybe acquire them some other way by like, uh......... hm................... maybe

playing the game

? Instead of just buying them?

Exactly what I was saying few pages back. Let us earn them ingame! They gave us only one dye channel mounts so they can milk us on them later.

They gave you a basic, one-dye channel, mount and offered upgraded (cosmetic upgrade only) versions for sale. How is that not ok? They can't force you (i.e. milk you) to buy them. It's not like they said you have to buy the skins or your mounts cease to function.

So you play the game to look average? You can spent hours chasing achievements and better loot, running dungeons and tunning your skills. And than you return to LA and next to you would stand some newbie with lots of money in glorious flaming outfit and awesome greatsword you cant get anywhere in the game other than to just buy it with zero effort. Did you hear about Fashion Wars 2. Its a thing why do you think theres such an outrage now, people care about cosmetic stuff its an MMO.

[pah.4931]

@SmirkDog.3160 said:

@pah.4931 said:Go to Lion's Arch. People obviously don't mind this "cash grab" (read: business trying to make money from customers FOR SHAME) as much as you think.

Actually they do mind as much as I think, because this thread (or these merged redundant threads) blew up and all the polls have at least 80% of voters saying 'no' or 'take out the RNG'. The only people you'll see in Lion's Arch showing off their mounts are the gullible whales that will buy any and every item from the gem store because they want it first and want to feel special. There will always be mindless supporters who never stop to think, but it's pretty clear that the majority of players are extremely displeased.

Quoting 1,000 people in a game that has hundreds of thousands isn't a great argument. Try again.

(A great majority of players never go to forums)

[SmirkDog.3160]

@Aya.6321 said:So are we going to get any news or feedback from ANET about the atrocity of this or are we just going to let them watch us mangle each other and wait for it to blow over? THIS IS BS. Why can't they ever just talk to us. Coddle us. Explain to us the situation. Come up with a solution.

None of that is happening. When there is quite a kitten storm right in front of them and they're going to just pretend it's not happening.They don't care. They're ignoring us all the way to the bank.

They have, however, argued on a different thread because I made a joke about one of them saying our comments were redundant. They're handling this whole debacle as best they can.

[SmirkDog.3160]

@pah.4931 said:Quoting 1,000 people in a game that has hundreds of thousands isn't a great argument. Try again.

(A great majority of players never go to forums)

Okay well, there are people who are coming to the forums to both praise it and complain about it. Of those that care, most hate it. You can move the goal posts all you want, but it's a fact that this has pissed players off more than anything they've done in a long time.

[Vegeta.2563]

@WingedLass.7456 said:

@pah.4931 said:

If you think this is appalling, then why not go to work for free for the next few days. Maybe then you'll realize that businesses need to make money or they close down.

Except no one is saying not to sell them.

In fact, some are saying to feel free to sell them for more gems per piece, and we'll still buy them

. We don't need them for free. People are saying that they would like to be able to pick what to spend their money on, not that they're not willing to spend money on cosmetics.

For Anet, this is probably a viable way to make the most possible money out of it, and it's entirely likely they'll put out more skins later (whether individually or also via the stables). But for part of the playerbase, the randomized aspect is where they object, as I am.

Yes, they're free to make money. They're even free to make this decision, as much as I may not like it. But it's not as if everyone is telling them not to sell them at all, or not to make money at all. The danger in the approach they've taken is that, while they may make more money instantly this way, it also makes for a lot of dissatisfied players. The same players they want encouraging others to play GW2.

Halloween we got 5 skins for 1600 gems. Then they throw out 1 skin for 2000 gems ... given the skin looks sick, but it would be nice if it was for all 5 mounts.

[teut.7918]

I don't go on the forums much, but I came here now to register how disappointed I am with the RNG system for the mounts. A system of just buying which mount you want seems to a much better way of doing it, I won't be spending more money on this game if this continues.

[Exsul.5803]

Im not a fan of random loot boxes for something I paid gems for. I would rather they did them in themes bundles like the Halloween mount skins.

Also, that 2000 gem mount is way over priced - if it's just a skin and not a new mount it should cost the same as an outfit.

[Hooglese.4860]

@"Pi Slinger.5801" said:Here's what we as a player base are seeing that is honestly disturbing us and make us question the integrity of ArenaNet:

• Mounts released with single-dye channel. Made to think that it was time/design constraint. Large number of mounts then sold less than 1.5 months later that look like the standard mounts, but with the 4 dye channels the originals should have had at release. And the cherry on top is that they're gated behind RNG.
• Increasing number of awesome skins being placed into BLC. They're account bound on acquire. Drop rate of items appears to have been made very small to exploit the hypothetical 5% in attempt to artificially boost sells to be like the 60% buying the item once. People would have definitely purchased these from Gemstore if not for RNG.
• Single mount skin sold for same price as account upgrades, almost the same price as even buying the game. Is ArenaNet saying that this one item has as much value as buying the game? Is it being sold at this price to make the RNG mount item not seem as bad by comparison?

ArenaNet is the company that sold us a game based on respecting a player's time. However, based on the RNG, I'm starting to feel as though they don't respect my money, which took time to earn.Let the quality of the product drive sales. Not desperate RNG purchases. Happy customers have looser wallets than those that feel cheated. If we can't trust the Gemstore for getting the items we want from it, then we'll inevitably stop using it.

Some pretty solid points, depressing ones at that. It implies they no longer value the player base as people and equals (ex of player base respect), but instead see the player base as a source of income/inferiors and are willing to prey on the ones of them who have addictive personalities, but what kind of person that plays a video game for 5 years has an addictive personality?

[Zephyria.6103]

I have no problem with the current setup.

I like the cheaper price with rng. I rather suspect that if there were an element of choice involved it would cost more....and I want to collect them all eventually anyway so the adoption license works out nicely.

That being said, I'd like it if they added more costly license with ability to choose mount type (jackal, raptor, griffin, skimmer etc) for maybe 500 gems per.

If they posted something saying there'd be the chance to individually buy skins rotated through the shop, as well as the rng route then I think it'd smooth some ruffled feathers.

[Exstazik.5847]

Price is fine but RNG-aspect is terrible. Let us choose WHAT we want to buy and problem solved. I'll gladly buy mount's skins which i LIKE and want for 400-600 gems no problem. But i refuse to gamble.And it's not only about mount's skins, you guys starting to put even costumes and gliders in RNG-chests. So low. Wanna sell smthn? Put it in store with actual price and i'll buy it. But i'll never pay real money for just a CHANCE to get something.

[Luvshyne.8697]

This randomization of the mount skins are terrible. The price would be fine if we could choose which skin we got when turning in a contract but because it's random it's just outrageous.

The other things people have said concerning the BS this is has already been stated, but i'm making a comment anyway due to the concern of repeat posters. This is my first post concerning this and thus not a repeat.

I am just... incredibly disappointed. I have been with gw2 since original beta and have argued to many, many people as to why this game is so awesome and wonderful and fun. I love the story, the area, the vistas, the raids, fractals, the character and personality behind npcs. But this just takes all of that and cheapens it. I avoid games with expensive RNG because I think it's unethical for all the reasons that have been described by previous people. And, though it sounds melodramatic in the extreme, a part of me still cannot help but feel betrayed. A slap to the face.

[starlinvf.1358]

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:

@Asum.4960 said:

@Sodeni.6041 said:

@Rawr.9467 said:Unfortunately you only need a few people to buy them. Boycotts don't work very well when you have whales that give in and purchase everything, further solidifying the benefits of this marketing model.

I strongly believe that if there are enough people that also

don't

buy those skins, Anet will have to change it since everyone counts as a source of money and they make less money if people don't buy those skins because of RNG aspects.

Considering gambling cash shop games get up to 90% of their revenue from around 0.2% of their player base, so called "whales", if ArenaNet want's to transition to that business model, loosing some "Dolphins" and "Minnows" or especially "non-monetizers" won't matter to them.

That doesn't mean outcry's or boycotts don't matter though, especially before it's to late, at this phase they might still turn around if public perception of Anet gets bad enough.Shame though, since I rather would have just bought the one or two mount skins I really like for a reasonable price and recommend the game to everybody thinking about getting into a new MMO instead.

But what does this small fish know?

Not sure if 100 a month makes me a whale or not but I refuse to spend any of it on RNG.

See this article from 2011, which considered $20 a month as whale territory.....

http://www.gamesbrief.com/2011/11/whales-dolphins-and-minnows-the-beating-heart-of-a-free-to-play-game/http://www.gamesbrief.com/2011/09/whales-true-fans-and-the-ethics-of-free-to-play-games/

Reading it now, in today's market, that whole bit about the difference between whales and true fans has been largely, if not entirely blurred, when you consider how polarizing people's opinions have become whenever the subject gets brought up. The fact I even feel the need to clarify this is why it bothers me..... its become increasingly difficult to have a proper discussion on a subject, when the most extreme opposing groups are trying to be as loud as possible to decry or affirm view points as irrefutable facts. There is also a problem where there is an increasing lack of empathy, or even the statement of false empathy, to dismiss issues that may had been minor before, but are now front and center. The phrases "it doesn't affect X" or "only affects Y" are no longer valid once you realize that EVERYTHING is becoming intertwined. The process may be slow, but it is happening.

As for the situation with the Mount skins....... this was an unnecessary move, as the player base was more then ready, even eager to buy mount skins that they liked, so long as the gem cost fell into similar price ranges as gliders and outfits. 700 Gems (or ~$8) is the upper limit people I believe people are willing to go for a single item like that. As pricey as that is, Mounts were popular enough to get away with it with little push back. There is pretty much no way to spin this situation with the RNG Unlock, as there was no reason to implement a system like that; other then ensuring as many people would put in the maximum possible investment, with no other incentive then to remove uncertainty that didn't need to exist.

[Wolfheart.7483]

@Wolfheart.7483 said:

@Roadkill.2374 said:

@SmirkDog.3160 said:

@Wolfheart.7483 said:Obviously, y'know, I mean for the future, not just right this second. And, y'know, there were Halloween mount skins and the Reforged Warhound. So, y'know, the adoption contracts haven't actually bee the

only

way to get new mount skins. Y'know.

Except it would be nice to, oh I don't know, maybe acquire them some other way by like, uh......... hm................... maybe

playing the game

? Instead of just buying them?

Exactly what I was saying few pages back. Let us earn them ingame! They gave us only one dye channel mounts so they can milk us on them later.

They gave you a basic, one-dye channel, mount and offered upgraded (cosmetic upgrade only) versions for sale. How is that not ok? They can't force you (i.e. milk you) to buy them. It's not like they said you have to buy the skins or your mounts cease to function.

So you play the game to look average? You can spent hours chasing achievements and better loot, running dungeons and tunning your skills. And than you return to LA and next to you would stand some newbie with lots of money in glorious flaming outfit and awesome greatsword you cant get anywhere in the game other than to just buy it with zero effort. Did you hear about Fashion Wars 2. Its a thing why do you think theres such an outrage now, people care about cosmetic stuff its an MMO.

Looking "average" is a matter of opinion. Eye of the beholder and all that. I love cosmetics and all my characters look very different from each other. However, I don't give a kitten what they guy next to me has. I care about what I have. So, no it doesn't bother me when I see someone with something I don't have, not in the least. I play the game and customize my characters for my own enjoyment, not to compete with others.

None of my posts are meant to imply I think this implementation was ideal. I am saying that there are some terrible overreactions. I think it should have been done differently or at a later date after more direct-purchase options were available to players. There are many ways they could have done it differently and better. I simply don't think it's the end of the world. Despite what many people on the forum claim, Anet has learned from many of their mistakes that upset a large number of players in the past. They have revised their approach when significant backlash occurs. Anet isn't completely in the dark here. I am quite sure they knew there would be backlash to this but they gambled on how much there would be. There is probably more than they anticipated. The talk of them stabbing players in the back or not deserving our trust, etc. is simply overreacting in my opinion.

I still believe they are testing the waters with different delivery methods for new mount skins to see what works and what doesn't. Was this adoption contract the best approach? I certainly don't think so. Could it have been far worse? Yes, absolutely. Can they rectify it? Most likely not since many people have purchased already. They might be able to put a band-aid on it somehow, time will tell. Can they learn from this and do far better next time? Without a doubt and I hope, and believe, that they will.

[SmirkDog.3160]

@Wolfheart.7483 said:

@SmirkDog.3160 said:Suck up to them more, please. Have you bought all the skins yet, or are you just missing one or two?

Your response to his post means nothing.

You're right, I was just being redundant again.

[Dust Errant.3081]

As someone who doesn't actually mind the RNG aspect of the mount skins, those who are trying to claim that other's complaints aren't warranted are being ridiculous. People have a right to be upset, and the amount who are clearly show that this is a problem for people.