Official Mount Adoption Feedback Thread [merged]

[BlakThornArrow.2389]

I've seen this thread evolve with a lot of negative complaints... And I do agree that this is just ridicules. I bought 3 adopt licenses and I gained 3 springer skins. 1 I will actually use AND two I don't even wanted. Also the forged mount in the gem store for 2000 gems?! are you kidding me? with halloween you gave us 5 skins for 1600.... Then to make matters worse, you make it so we have to gamble in order to actually get what we want, Hell I'd rather spend 600-800 gems on 1 mount skin I will actually use then having to spend my money on skins I don't care about. I would really like the Inu like dog skin for the Jackel but hey I've got 1 in 30 chance of getting that.. and let me guess if you add new mounts those will also be added to that RNG Loot box.

Arenanet. I would very much like to hear a response in this thread about how and what you are going to do to keep your players happy.I love this game and I really liked the mounts. But something like this simply ruins it.

Also as some simple solutions:

• Sell individual mount skins at a fixed price in the gem store
• Make it that when you buy and adopt license you can actually choose which type of mount you want to adopt (giving you more chances to get what you want)
• Or make it that you simply buy a license and get to choose a skin.
• Or make it that if you get a skin you don't like you can trade it in for another.

[Shaaba.5672]

@Rococo.8347 said:

1. Ive been around the block, I was there for the Great Ascended Backlash, The Great HoT (rewards/meta/Item acquisition/difficulty) Backlash and the Veterans HoT Price Backlash, the latter was handled with swift rethink and positive action on Anets part, the former two not so much a couple of times with issues that layers are unhappy with we have been asked for feedback, then the htread has been shut down and then? ...nothing happens - I recall one thread on the old forum going for OVER A YEAR ( i wish I could remember which) and resulting in little to no change. If you are asking for feedback it needs to be acted on and it needs to be quickly, or at least a clear concise game plan of how long it will take to action.

I think the one you're thinking of was the thread about traits. Basically that the system of unlocking them through specific events, etc was flawed.

I'll aslo add another PR disaster to that list - changing the TP interface, specifically the gold to gem exchange rate. At that point the lowest amount of gems you could exchange for was 400. People were furious and vocal about this change. I believe the only thing that made them reverse their decision on that particular change was the PR from gaming magazines reporting on it. I'd like to think it was concern for the customers and listening to their feedback, but sadly it was pretty immediately reversed when it began to be reported on.

So the Jim Sterling video was great. What I think we need to do is contact other gaming journalism sites to spread the word about how unhappy we are.

[Grey Moon.6531]

My issue with this is more about the direction that the whole gaming industry is moving towards with loot boxes and games that are paid for. Its one thing with the freemium models (which I try to avoid), but games that we pay for in advance it leaves a bad taste in my mouth and is frankly worrying.Personally I would like to not support a game that encourages people to gamble (especially children, won't someone think of the children!!!!). I know that there has been elements of gambling in GW (even in 1 with the Zaishen chests), but it never felt that intrusive to me. My concern is RNG creep... What would happen if the people who make the money decisions see that they get a better payout by RNGing items? If this model works would they start putting legendary items in loot boxes?
Unlike BF2 or SoW where I can see the kitten kitten going on in the media (and some surprising reversals) I can just not buy the games. With GW2's unique model I'm already invested. I sank many a hour in GW and GW2 and I've always tried to support the great work of the devs other members of the team by buying gems when I can. The amount of skins I have which I hardly ever use isn't about owning the skin as much it is about saying thank you for making a great game.
Please please don't go down the path that was forged by mobile games (and other gacha games) using tactics that is only helpful to society in the data it provides drug addiction study groups.I really want to play SoW and BF2, but I won't because of how the loot boxes are implemented. I really hope that ANet doesn't bring more gacha elements into the game as I would hate to not play this game too.

[Ed Log.7480]

We all knew mount skins were going to be on the Gem Store, and that's fine.At Halloween we couldn't buy just one mount skin, we had to buy the entire box with all five mounts skins, and that is okay too I guess. (It's the festival's skin after all)But now with the Black Lion Stables, it's RNG ?

A lot of people were looking forward to update their mounts skins, but doing this and preventing us from choosing the skins we want to get is SO FRUSTRATING.

So please, raise the price if you want, but at least let us choose.

[Afro Dude.8423]

Honestly, I would buy one of the mounts if I could choose the one I want for 400 gems. But when it's a 1 in 30 chance, or having to pay over $120 I feel insulted as a consumer. The forged skin also costing almost as much as Path of Fire itself is crazy too. Granted, it's not as distasteful as dropping lootboxes onto the beaches of Normandy, but still just as insidious.

This is a rated Teen game pushing gambling on it's players using real money. Would the developers at Anet want someone pushing their 13 year old kid to gamble with real money? Sure you could use gold, but the amount you would need is out of reach for the vast majority of the playerbase.

As a player of 5 years, I definitely won't be supporting this game financially if this keeps up. I also feel like a charlatan for telling my friends that GW2 isn't the kind of game to exploit it's players.

[Nahlaas.8029]

I'm 100% against the RNG factor on anything related to skins. There's enough RNG in the black lion chests and the dye packs already. A game like Guild Wars 2 which revolves around making your character look unique can't have skins thrown in the RNG bucket. I cannot, and will not support evil practices like these. It's clearly a decision made my heartless corporate suits who've never touched the game before. To those saying we're blowing this out of proportion, remember things will probably escalate when the corporate suits in Arenanet find out how weak the community is and how easy it is to sell and profit from Lootboxes.

Until the RNG factor is completely removed from the skins, I will not support Arenanet any further.

On a darker note: How shameful it is to see Arenanet in the news outlets bundled together with the likes of EA and Activision as just another blind greedy and soulless company. To see Arenanet in the media as some evil corporation who fell to the lootbox fever. What a sad day.

[DeviantShark.6548]

@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:There are a lot of conversations about the mount adoption option that was released today. Many of the comments in the individual threads repeat ones made by the same person in another thread. We very much want to hear your feedback, but have found that a single feedback thread offers the best opportunity for you to share your thoughts and for us to review it in the context of a wider set of feedback.

So here's a thread into which you're invited to post your thoughts on the subject of the Black Lion Stables Mount Skins.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Next time you shop for groceries, just give the store 20 bucks, carry back home your bag, and open it up at home. If you have the things you needed, hey, that's good for you, but if you don't you have to go shopping again. By the time I have the buffalo-mozarella you wanted, you need to figure out what to do with 90 gallons of pepsi cola, because you most certainly didn't ask for it, and you are not going to drink it either. It's just stuff some people like, but certainly not everyone. And no, you are not allowed to resell that pepsi.

The same goes for your products. Don't force the stuff on us we don't care about to justify it's existence.

[mediocrelinguist.7013]

Same as a lot of people have said. I like that there's new Mount skins, but I don't want to gamble to get them (especially if that's the ONLY way to get them). There's more than a few that aren't really my taste, and with my terrible RNG luck I'd get one I don't like, thus wasting gems on something I'm not going to use. It just doesn't really make sense when glider skins can be bought individually. There's a few of these I'd like to buy now if they were available separately. Most people can't fork out the $100+ for all of them, or however much it takes to get the ones you want. But I guess that's a good way to get more money out of people.

[SkyFallsInThunder.8257]

This was a huge dissapointment to me. I thought ANet couldn't let me down more after the borefest PoF is, but they really outdid themselves. One of the stupidest ways to acquire mount skins and I won't be spending a single gem on this rng crap. Not to mention that a good deal of the skins are generic boring skins, with only a few cool ones. But hey, gotta play that rng.

Or you can drop 2000 gems and get a single skin for one mount - ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha no.

Sad to see GW2 heading in this direction.

EDIT: Also, they are not actually new skins, except a few. They are new PAINT JOBS! If someone actually thinks new paint jobs are as hard to make as actual new skins, please go ahead and slap yourself.

[Nero DarkSlayer.9206]

This video gives an in-depth analysis of this kind of lootbox system.

[Xerethas.4139]

ANet, since I'm inept at writing in general, please consider the following from an outside perspective: Jim [redacted] Sterling, Son:

"This game was selling expansions at a premium. This game was already making money from micro-transactions. But, because this is the year of the [redacted] lootbox, it seems no company, no matter how customer-friendly they may outwardly appear, is safe from succumbing to their seduction."

"Once you start emulating casinos, once you start emulating gambling and using your little [redacted] virtual currencies to duck around the regulations, once you use entirely predatory game mechanics, you lose even the flimsy excuse you had that games are so expensive to make and maintain. You're greedy. You're chasing a trend that's making a lot of money now simply because it's making a lot of money now."

We're not just angry in this case. We're let down. You, ANet, stepped away from your consumer-friendly reputation and expanded on a sales technique that preys on those with gambling addictions, OCD, or a lack of financial literacy.

Shame on you.

[creepyXtina.2560]

How is that different from spending 100 gems for a chance at an exclusive dye]? Or 80 gems (in bulks) for BL keys, with a random chance of skins? Like any lotto, play if you think you'll get lucky, otherwise hang tight and buy the specific skin(s) you want when they show up at a discount later.

You can simply buy the dye you want from the TP, you can't buy the specific mount skins you would like to have, cause you gotta you buy a liscence for 400 gems and have to pray you get the mounts skin you'd like to have, if you're lucky you get it, it not it might take you 30 liscences to get the one you want. 400 gems for a Mount skin is actually ok, but 400 gems on a random mount skins you might not even like, is not ok imo :(

[Zeem.2564]

I have no issue with the 400 gems for a random skin - thats a good price. But 2000 for an individual skin is waaaaay too high. I'd at least -consider- it at 1000 gems.

I personally won't be buying any random skins though as the risk of a boring skin or a mount I don't care for is too high. I trust we'll be able to buy each skin individually at a respectable price at a point in the future, with the random option being a risk people have to take if they want it early.

[RDarken.2495]

I don't really get why people are suddenly outraged at this: This has been ANet's MO since launch (see: Black Lion Chests). I'll buy an outfit and I'll deal with in-game RNG, but I'm not paying for RNG.

So, yeah, this is a stupid product and it was rolled out in a dumb way (especially given how lazy some of those skins are - imo), but just don't buy it. This isn't new.

[Zephyria.6103]

I don't like that the 2000 gem one is unobtainable in the pool of mounts from the adoption licenses. The adoption licenses should work like the guaranteed wardrobe unlock....that way if I spend a ton of money I at least have the chance to get super lucky and snag the fancy schmancy reforged dog. (yes...I bought tickets to get all the mounts, and the reforged dog is still locked, despite me having a spare license).

[Olmega.4965]

The thing ppl are missing here is the way it's setup currently means that all new skins will go into the rng table, meaning the more skins they put in the less likely you are to get the one you want. It only took a month before they released 30 skins what's to say next month they add another 30 all being just repatterns meaning if you want 1 skin you have 1/60 of a chance of getting it. Honestly I think it would be better if the stable worked like the black lion claim tickets. you get 400 per ticket and most the skins cost 1 ticket but the real good ones cost 2.

[Licht Sieger.8496]

I would personally like to say I love the work on the various mount skins and thank the team for their work. I support Anet a lot and would like to support the teams that made these skins by getting some. That said, I don't think I personally will be spending any gems on these the way they are now. I think that it is a combination of the randomness and the $5 price per random pull that I find distasteful.

I play Magic the gathering and buy booster packs for it, which have randomized cards and cost about the same, maybe a little less. The difference to me is that in something like a booster pack like that you get more than one thing AND you are guaranteed rares and uncommons. In the mount skins that were released there are obviously some that could be likened to a higher 'rarity' purely in the fact that you have some that are different patterns and some that are that plus body shape redesigns, and then some with those things plus various particle effects. As far as we know, in the odds of the Mount Adoption License, you have odds of getting any of these skins equally, there are none actually rarer than others. However in all likelihood the majority of the playerbase will perceive some as more desirable than others. And I can't help but think a lot of the time, someone is going to be outright disappointed if they get one of the less complex ones without particle effects and such. I think all of the designs are good and should be appreciated. The current system just lends itself to the less shiny of these mount skins getting regarded as trash drops or useless and I think that is a shame.

I think if the skins are going to be randomized in which one you get, I would like the price to go down. I think 200 or 250 is not unreasonable, but I'd be much more likely to buy a few pulls if they were about half the current price they are. On the other hand, I would definitely also like it if you could buy a selectable version of the Adoption Contract that allows you to choose a specific skin. I'd even say the price could go up maybe as high as 600 gems and be fine with me if there was a version where you could outright choose which skins you wanted. I would even say that the game would be fine with both of these methods. I know that if I could, I would definitely buy three or so pulls of a random mount for 200 gems or so, and then spend 600 gems once or twice to get some specific skins that I didn't get that I might like. As the Adoption Contract system currently stands, I bought the spooky mount pack back when it was introduced and will happily stick with those and the default skins until something changes, and have advised my friends and guildmates to do the same.

Related note- charging 2000 gems for the single reforged Jackal skin when the Spooky pack of 5 was 1600 is a bit exoribitant. If it was a pack of all five mounts with a skin like that for that price, sure I could see it. However there is absolutely no reason for a single mount skin individually to be that much more than a glider skin or outfit in cost. I just want to reiterate that I love the work you all have done in designing these new mount skins, but I and many others simply will not be supporting with our wallets at these prices, and will happily change that stance if you consider at least halving the current prices, especially if the RNG element is kept to the Adoption Contract.

*Edit for one last thought, I think that if a random version is kept in game, something needs to be done about the fact that people can get griffon skins when they do not have and possibly were not planning on getting the griffon mount. Whether it is those who do not have it simply do not get drops of it, or people can actually select which of the five mounts they want a random roll from, at the very least something needs to be changed here.

[Caristinn.7935]

Spent $60 on mount skins and I'm very satisfied with my purchase. I enjoyed the feeling of gambling and exclusivity that comes with not being able to attain them through individual purchases.

[Zyrhan.3180]

I love mounts and want more customization options for them.

I'm the type of player who is happy to throw you guys some money to get a skin I like, because it's usually a pretty reasonable transaction in lieu of a monthly fee, and it gets me something I can use for my character right then and there. That said, for a single mount skin, it's going to have to be phenomenal and exactly what I want before I'll be willing to spend $20.00 on it.

Further, this business model turns me off from not only spending any money on mounts, but from spending money on the game altogether. It feels predatory, and I'm not comfortable spending money in a gem store where the stable is seen as an acceptable way to distribute what is now almost the entire roster of mount skins. I've been here since Beta Weekend 2. I'm willing to compromise on this a lot because this is a B2P MMO with no subscription fee, but every time you enforce gambling as a necessary way to get something out of the gem store (which is where the vast majority of cosmetic items are obtained in this game that explicitly called out skins and cosmetics as its end-game), I get closer to checking out of the game completely and feeling like I'm playing a gachapon machine with a nice action RPG as a mere wrapper. You guys need to make money, but I need to respect ANet as a company to be willing to give you my money. And as someone who wants maybe 1 skin out of the entire Stable, telling me I have to spend somewhere between $5 and $100+ dollars to unlock it is completely unacceptable. Just because you guys put a cap on the amount of gambling we have to do to get a certain reward doesn't mean that you aren't making us gamble upwards of $100 for them.

Let us buy specific skins for $10. Make the skins tradeable on the TP. Let us trade in skins we don't want for tokens to buy a specific skin at a 2-to-1 or 3-to-1 rate, but whatever you do, do something. I was really excited about the direction of PoF and was looking forward to seeing where things go from here and supporting you monetarily along the way. I was looking forward to buying mount skins. But not like this. I can't buy gems in good conscience if this is the new standard for distributing rewards.

[akcsl.8501]

I've bought glider skins previously because they fit with my my characters and I'd do the same with mount skins if I were to be given the option to choose which skin I wanted, but rng or pay £125 for the entire set beggars belief. I'm a big fan of Guild Wars 2, having played since launch, and I've NEVER seen the community this upset, even when we were promised a full set of new legendary weapons that never appeared/got delayed.

To my mind we should be able to pick which mount skin we want and pay a reasonable price. For instance, you might want the fire skins for all your mounts, so make it available as a set for the five mounts, like you did with the Halloween skins, you want just one, fine, make that one available but to open up Guild Wars 2 to the loot box mentality isn't the way to encourage the customer base, especially when we've only just bought the expansion.

It smacks of greed on the part of ArenaNet and I honestly believe the company is better than that.

[Lyger.5429]

To be honest folks, this ship has already sailed and in Anet's financial eyes this release was a success. I mean just look at the gems-to-gold prices after yesterday and how many people already have these skins in game.

What can they do at this point if they remove the RNG they would have to offer refunds to a lot of people.

If they want to regain the trust of their customers again, they have to release the next set of skins to be obtainable in game and not the gemstore.

It's quite sad because of all the positive rep they built with the expansion release is pretty much gone due to this PR nightmare.

[Snowskau.4369]

I think by now you all know perfectly well what is wrong. You've asked for feedback and suggestions though, so I'll make the following:

1. Have an official message apologise for this blunder, retract the Mount Adoption License system, and allow players to return unwanted mounts for a refund.
2. Add one of each mount's skin as a high-end purchase for one of the PoF map/meta-event currencies - the simpler reskins would be entirely fair. Players have pined for more value and replayability out of the PoF metas, so it would be so perfect. You would have gained so much confidence and favor from the playerbase if they could unlock mount skins outside of the cash shop.
3. For the love of god and all that is good in the world just let us choose which skin we want. Charge more for them if you want, I'd be entirely happy with 600 gems each. I was even expecting a price of 700 myself before I found out about this utterly atrocious RNG ticket scheme.

And while I don't think it will affect much, I want you to be aware that I refuse to support Arenanet or any of it's products monetarily until this mount skin monetisation has been unfucked and I can actually purchase the item I want from your store without subjecting myself to this scummy-as-hell barely legal gambling crap. I was actually excited to purchase mount skins from your gem store back when PoF launched, but with the current situation I sure as hell aren't.

[Crescelle.9783]

Interesting. I agree with the general sentiment I'm seeing here.

The dye packs work because you can buy and sell them on the trading post. Black lion chest keys can be found normally playing the game, and make for a fun surprise, especially as most of the items in them are available on the TP anyway. Black Lion Chests already cover the "fun random chance at expensive skins" mechanic without forcing themselves as the ONLY way to get black lion weapon skins. We don't need more of that, we need more guaranteed customer satisfaction.

Mounts should be done similarly to how glider skins were, sold individually in the gem store for reasonable prices (although I think a few mount skins that you could get through in-game achievements and the like would be quite welcome)! I think I started out with all of about one glider skin I wanted? Then, as more were released that I liked, sales came and went, and as I designed characters that I realized would look much better with a certain correspondingly themed glider skin, I bought more and more skins. There's just something satisfying about finally deciding to make that investment to buy that glider skin you really love. Something exhilarating about clicking the button and seeing your mailbox light up, knowing that yes! You just finally got that cool item you've been drooling over!

Loot boxes entirely rob you of that experience. If I see a cool item that I want, then see it's only available from a random loot box drop, I'm going to instantly forget about it. I have neither the time, nor money, to continually spend gems on a random chance at an item, and though some players might, most don't. I'll probably see other players running around with cool mount skins, and I'll wish I had them, but I'm not going to buy the adoption certificates if I don't know what I'm actually getting.

Other games may pull all sorts of shenanigans like loot boxes and subscription fees to keep draining money out of their players, but Guild Wars 2 players are here because we don't want that kind of game. I want a game where when I pay for something, I get it, whether that be my account itself being mine and not needing constant monthly fees to stay so, or the mount skin I paid for actually being the one I want.

I love Guild Wars 2 and will continue to play it, but I'm not exactly rich and won't be spending money on it unless I'm sure I'll get what I want.

However, the gw2 devs are awesome and clearly want to know how their player-base feels about all this, so I expect we'll soon end up being given the option to choose which mount skins we're buying!

[Darkstorm.9346]

I'm a disabled man on a limited budget. I've supported this game since it first was available for purchase. It is my primary hobby to engage with online. I tend to buy a gem card every couple of months (even though I really don't have much discretionary money) to further support your company because I believe you provide me with that much entertainment. I buy a lot of stuff in the gem shop. I own more gliders and outfits than I have characters to use them. If you had made mount skins directly purchasable, I would have bought the ones I wanted. But I will not spend what little money I have on a gamble. Gambling is unethical. I've never purchased a single Black Lion Chest for that reason. And I won't be spending any money for mounts skins that are either way overpriced or locked behind a gamble. If you wish for me to stop purchasing items from the gem shop, then keep locking it behind a chance to get what I want.

[Misan.5980]

I dont like the rng aspect of it. Id rather be able to buy the skins individually. I think the pricing is fine per skin. Maybe some more or less than others.