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Official Mount Adoption Feedback Thread [merged]


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meh, 400 gem is cheap, you can easily get it with 120 ish gold.

there's only 30 of the skins and you get no duplicate, you can easily farm your way to get the skins you like. because the loot table gets smaller as you progress.so it's whatever, ill pay 10 dollar do some RNG gamble and support the company and the rest i'll be buying with the gold i earned from playing PvP or tournament.

RNG keeps the skins from being too overused, any skin that can be bought for 600 straight out of the gem store has no value at all. not to mention some of the skins are too over the top compare to others. i don't want my game to be filled with starbound griffon like it's dirt. hurt my eyes too

like it's time gated skins, it's hey, you have spare 120 gold, try to get a new skin, oh its not the skin you want, try again later.it's just like prescusor dropds, or whatever drops you get, or like time gated skins which you can skip if you have enough money/gold. so it's ok

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@Sykper.6583 said:I'm going to say this.

I think there's just a bit too much overreaction going on. I've read comments everything from 'This has ruined my gambling addiction avoidance for 5 years' to 'This game should be labeled A for Adult now for the gambling influence'. I'm aware these are fringe cases, but I can't help but feel like many folks are really, really taking this too far with their reactions. I personally didn't mind the price or even RNG, sure it would be nice if skins were released that required in-game work to gain, or if skins cost a flat amount on the gemstore.

The thing is, none of us can pass judgement on if this was the only answer to allowing Arenanet to make a profit or not. I'm not going to underestimate anyone here, I'm willing to gander that at one point Arenanet saw that putting 30 skins on the Gemstore for flat costs would be a huge negative in their gains. This could have been the only option for these skins. Or perhaps you guys are correct, that Arenanet is simply going more predatory.

Imho, for a company that still has one of the most flexible and customer friendly 'in-game stores' across all the MMOs, I'm willing to give them more credit given all the advantages they've given us so far. And while I can understand frustrations, I'm a little bit disappointed in the community right now than Arenanet.

Over the past year or so, we have seen more and more attempts to get people to purchase things they might not want in order to get things they do want. Bundles are good for consumers if the bundle contains things they want at a price lower than the individual prices of those items. They are not good deals for consumers if the consumer only wants one of the items and cannot buy that item separately. If you examine the store offerings, ANet is probably making enough off bundling to warrant them continuing to use that tactic. What is not known is how much they might have made by selling the items separately.

Ultimately, while the business must do what the business must do, the consumer also must look to their own welfare. Since we don't know what ANet's Profit & Loss statements look like, speculating on whether they had to resort to this approach cannot be a discussion item for us. What is appropriate for consumers to discuss is what works for them.

Sometimes there are consequences for making business choices. The way the mounts are packaged was apparently a bad choice, at least if this thread is any indication. I don't condone some of the more extreme positions taken, nor the invective. However, most of what I've read has been consumers speaking out about whether they are willing to support this sales model, or whether they are willing to support a company that tries to get more out of the sale of a luxury item than the market will bear.

I would not be surprised if the adoption skins include draft versions of mounts that were later replaced by the final versions, added to several purpose built skins with particle effects, etc. I would also not be surprised if the adoption initiative, coupled with the large price for a single skin, was an attempt to see what the market would bear. If sales are great despite the negative reaction, then we might see more of the same going forward. If not, we'll likely see a different approach by ANet.

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@Hodori.1068 said:I say almost never because I miss getting cool stuff from achievements and even as drops by playing the game like we did in the first year of Guild Wars 2. . . Pretty much all the skins and stuff linked to achievements and defeating bosses. Ever since LS1, everything has been equipment like accessories that have no effect on our unique look (looking at you LS2 and Heart of Thorns Story content, and all those ascended accessories for completing the story achievements). There have been so many missed opportunities in rewarding players for completing feats, as well as Achievements, in the game. For example, the Fallen Balthazar outfit should have been a reward for defeating Balthazar without Sohothin instead of locked behind a Black Lion Chest. I dropped a bundle of keys to get that skin, and didn't get it; and yes I am regretting wasting my money on BLC keys . . . completing "Reins of the Raptor" could have rewarded a Raptor skin with 4 dye channels . . . but in the end, we are just left with achievements that give us between 1 to 5 points that adds up to nothing; not even enough to get us over the hump for an Achievement Chest.

Its even worse that we are still dealing with diminishing rewards, and have the risk of our accounts being suspended or banned for grinding/farming for materials and gold. Sucks working towards Legendaries, ascended gear, and pretty much everything that is cool looking that is a material sink, while combating the stated risk and diminishing rewards, along with RNG.

Hopefully devs see this comment and take a step back and look how broken their game is in the aspect of being "rewarding." Still love Guild Wars 2 in the end despite its set backs in terms of rewards and the gem store. I play it with my wife, and we are having a blast exploring Elona, as well as the rest of what we currently have in Tyria.

Wow, I totally agree with this. I can already see myself looking at someone and saying to myself, "Wow he got the fallen Balthazar outfit, he must have defeated him without Sohothin! What a feat!" But now when I look at someone, all I can think is "He paid $10 for that." It really takes away from that air of wonder in a game.

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Just wanted to clarify something and to remind folks of an important fact after reading 43 pages of protests against lootboxes :

What ANET proposes here with mount skins IS NOT what other games referenced in this thread are proposing (Shadow of War, BF2 to name a few). I can't stress that enough.The huge difference being those games are proposing lootboxes containing PROGRESSION ITEMS inside. ANET only gives you cosmetics, as they already have in previous RNG boxes (on a different scale, I'll give you that).If you feel truly disgusted by this, then you should feel EVEN WORSE for those single-player games (which don't have the maintenance cost and update necessity of an MMORPG) forcing you into buying RNG boxes to prevent hours of boring farming. Because where ANET sells only cosmetics, those single player games are now entirely designed around tricking you into buying those boxes, by fixing impossible farming objectives in-game or whatever. Those boxes are necessary because otherwise you can't progress in the game. Here in GW2, as lame as it sounds, if you don't want to buy those mount skins for whatever reason , you don't buy it. You can still finish the game and enjoy the Pvp without being two-shot by folks you have bought hundreds of boxes.

So drop your pitchforks for a bit about that, because ANET is definitely not the worse company around these days. Reminder, they are developing a subscription free MMO, not a single player game with small server maintenance costs.

And I don't think the whole "you can't earn it through gameplay" is relevant because of the gold into gems thing. Yes, you can eventually convert enough gold into gems to buy yourself a mount skin, by just playing the game the way you want.

Now back to those mount skins, I think the main issue here is that people should be able to buy the skin they want. Even if you sell it for a higher price tag, which would be fine in that particular case. ANET has already been doing that with gliders for one year (which are selling at a higher price : up to 600 gems for a specific glider, 400 for a random mount). Take WoW for example, you already pay a 13$/month subscription, yet you have a cash shop full of cosmetics items, with mount skins you can buy for 20$. People are buying it because they know what skin they're going to get, even though it's already overpriced for a subscription based MMO.

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Imagine walking into a real store. You find the perfect running shoes of the brand and look you want. Instead of paying and get the what you pay for, the store gives you a random pair of shoes (high heal pink ones). They say "If you want that particular pair of shoes you will have to gamble. If you want them cheaper, you can pay for 30 pair of shoes and you MIGHT get the shoes you want. You will get a discount per pair. Another option is that you pay for 5 pairs and get the shoes you want. But not today. Sometime in the next coming 30-60 weeks. Maybe"

Why would Anet, or any other greedy MMORPG, think that it's a great way to treat their customers? If they don't expect to be treated like this in a normal store, they shouldn't do it to us.

I work for my money and i never gamble. Why would i start to gamble with something that isn't even real but purely cosmetic in a virtual world?

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A random mount skin for 400 gems is not an acceptable investment. I like some of the skins, absolutely. But I will not leave it to chance that I will get what I want when I am spending gems,(which let's be honest, probably came from real world money). I don't want to gamble on skins. I want to be able to feel accomplished when I acquire a skin, an item, a feature. You can spend money and feel this way, because you get the item and you're left feeling secure in your choice. But you cannot get that with an RNG unlock. If you have expectations to get something you want, you have a higher chance of being disappointed and as a result you move away from what makes you feel this way.

GW2 has made me feel this way for a while. Adding more for me to spend on, and less to play, earn, and enjoy, is only making matters worse.

About the Warhound. A single mount skin for 2,000 gems. While I truly do understand the time to create, from concept to finaling - and I do notice how different the skin is from the Jackal's base form that it wouldn't be as easy as retexturing. I can't accept this price. With complete honesty, 1000 is barely cceptable. It's on par with outfits but has other cosmetic functions that surpass an outfit. This is the high end that as a consumer I'd be willing to accept.

If it was a different mount, with new attacks, new movement, I'd pay 2,000 gems.

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And as the rage continues, that person that drops the money makes up for ten of the people taking the time to comment on this thread.

Ah yes, and those folks who claim their gambling addition suddenly -reawakened-. Hm, is that so? All of these examples and complaints coming out of the woodwork now.

Let's face it. You are gonna cry loud enough, Anet is going to give in, and you will still be paying 10 or 20 dollars more because you are 'satisfied'. As long as the RNG goes poof, everyone will be cooing and all of this hassle goes away.

And here we have almost struggling modes like PVP and WvW, trying to get some sort of response, but no, you guys rather scream about cash than the ACTUAL gameplay that all of you could be playing.

Dungeons, tune-ups, quality of life changes across all modes. You wish to cry about the #Mounts. I am honestly baffled that people would cry more about this, then trying to improve the game overall.

Sad, sad and dark days. Anet, I hope you use this money to improve what you already have implemented instead of buying into the crapstorm and pitchforks people are trying to get from this 15 minutes of fame.

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Hey Arena net,Randomised loot is generally a bad thing. Turn back while you still can.

At this current time, I only want one of the new mount skins, which means that I only have a 1/30 chance to pull it out of the contract. (since there are 30 new skins)I just want to straight up buy it like the rest of my skins. I think it is rather awful the way this was done.

If I could pick the mount then get a randomized skin for that mount only it wouldn't be as bad, but preferabley just choosing the skin for the mount would be better.

Knowing my luck I'll take more then 1 try the for the springer skin I want that and i'll end up get skins for other mounts before I get one for springer, and even then I know it won't be the right skin that I want, or other case will get lots of skins for 1 mount, since I only can have 1 skin active, it makes it pointless to have a lot of skins if you know you won't use, meaning I've just wasted my money. Perhaps money could have used/spent on different items.

It could take 1 try it (if I am super lucky) or could take 17 tries or 24 tries to get the one skin I want.so at mininum, it'll take 400 gems, if i am unlucky it'll 6800 - 10,200 gems (£85 - £110 gbp) to get one skin, which is awful.Like me, a lot of people don't have much money to be burning through to get one cosmic skin.It wouldn't be so bad but after a while you're going to add more mount skins to the ones that are there which means it's going to be very hard or extermely COSTLY to get the thing we want.To add insult to injury I can't sell the skins I don't want on the Trading post or just buy the skin I want on the trading post either.Which means I'm just stuck with something random that I paid for THAT I DON'T WANT!! After awhile this might actually make players not purchase the item as nobody wants to be stuck with something they don't want, or they feel like there is no chance of them getting that item that they want, so they won't try.

This random paid loot system wasn't a nice thing to throw at players (especially long term ones),You NEED to make alternate way that we can get the skins that we want WITHOUT the randomization.You can keep this randomization thing, BUT offer the mount skins on the store, like normal as well, as an alternate way of getting/purchasing the mount skins right away.Having the option to grab what we want, is what we need.

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Many players(myself included) would happily buy 1 if not 2 of the skins for each mount if it was choice based hell I'd even pay more gems per skin if u changed it to choice of which one. Make it a multi ticket thing instead like black lion tickets. 1 ticket for reskins 2 for the model+reskin and 3 for the particle effects re adjust the price to 250-300 per ticket and Im willing to bet it would please most people seeing as other games regularly charge 10-30 per skin.

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I really thought you guys wouldn't buy into the gambling addiction trend at this level. I mean just wow... I never thought I'd be calling for regulations in gaming but maybe it is time for the government to step in and regulate this gambling loot box garbage. So the virtual currency stops letting games side step the law.

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@PopeUrban.2578 said:I've been saying the same thing about black lion chests for quite a while. Hilariously nobody cared about the exploitative real money RNG until it walled off something they actually wanted and they had to pay for it themselves in stead of getting some other anonymous player to do it for them.

Truth be told, I've steered clear from the Black Lion Chests because that had alarm bells all over. Sure, I would get a surprise key now and then via drop or after a story step, but I wouldn't spend money on RNG like that. I saw exclusive special skins that I liked in those boxes, and just faced the fact that I couldn't have them and moved on. I honestly don't understand those that do buy Black Lion Chest keys in a dogged attempt to get that one item. It is bad, and maybe I was naive to think that people couldn't possibly cave and throw tons of money at Black Lion Keys simply because I wasn't doing the same.

I guess I just didn't come to the forums and say anything about the fact I couldn't get skins I wanted cos they were gated behind RNG, but I honestly didn't feel it was important enough. Maybe I should have? I don't know.

I've made my statement about the mounts though, but when I look at it, I am just a bit disappointed - it will pass and I will move on. At the end of the day, my opinion / wants / needs are just a drop in that very vast ocean, and I have been reminded of that with things far more important to me than exclusive gliders in a Black Lion Chest.

(On a side note: my last line took things to a very dark place I realised. O_o After living the past couple of years fighting to have your voice heard over some big issues and being told you're just fussing or a minority so who cares, speaking about what I think about mount skin RNG and black lion chests feels so small... :'( I think I need a hug... )

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It seems the playerbase is very passionate about this issue.

It's a perfect example of how this forum desperately needs the up/down arrows on Dev posts, as each time a forum-user walks away and comes back to this thread, they must scroll through every page to see if there are any new Dev posts. I'm afraid I don't trust the carousel to show (or keep) every Dev post, and the Dev Tracker is useless.

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@Lilyanna.9361 said:

And here we have almost struggling modes like PVP and WvW, trying to get some sort of response, but no, you guys rather scream about cash than the ACTUAL gameplay that all of you could be playing.

Dungeons, tune-ups, quality of life changes across all modes. You wish to cry about the #Mounts. I am honestly baffled that people would cry more about this, then trying to improve the game overall.

To fix these areas they will need to spend time coming up with a plan to bring players back to these areas. Unfortunately, there's not a lot of incentive for people to play PvP or WvW anymore, so what you have now is a community of people who truly enjoy the game mode (leaning more on my WvW love here).

Dungeons, I used to do a daily dungeon run of all the dungeons. I have zero reason to do a dungeon again except for nostalgia. The only thing that would bring me back to them is CONTENT.

Only content can swing the player base. And a lot of the content players enjoy are cosmetic. Which a very large pile of it exists inside of the gemstore, rather than through gameplay.

Anyway, the gripes you seem to have have nothing to do with this thread, and should probably be taken elsewhere since it seems your contribution was only to complain that other people are complaining about what you feel is the wrong area of the game to complain about.

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@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:There are a lot of conversations about the mount adoption option that was released today. Many of the comments in the individual threads repeat ones made by the same person in another thread. We very much want to hear your feedback, but have found that a single feedback thread offers the best opportunity for you to share your thoughts and for us to review it in the context of a wider set of feedback.

So here's a thread into which you're invited to post your thoughts on the subject of the Black Lion Stables Mount Skins.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Ok,

This is my stance. I buy a lot of gem store items. I love gw2 and see nothing wrong with spending my money on bits I want. I work full time and I shouldn't feel guilty. No different to me buying a new golf club if I had that as a hobby.

I'm one of those people that bought the spooky mount pack, copper fed, perm tools, dye packs, mini's and more. I've bought glider after glider skin, but not every one.

I would have quite easily bought 2k-4k gems on the 7th November and treated myself to one or two of each mount skin type so I could change each one of my mount skins. Us as players are quite diverse. Some like really glowly stuff, some like plainer stuff. So each of us would have bought different types of skins.

But the business model that was released with these skins is wrong, you are milking your player base and you know it. You would have made LOADS of money from mount skins if they were implemented normally where we could pick, so I feel there is no need for this model.

You are blatantly trying to encourage your customers to spend 2 to 3 times in what they originally wanted to spend to keep rolling for a skin they want or what some could only afford. You then release all 30 at once with the option to avoid RNG to try and make the other option look like a better deal.

Knowing my luck I would have got three crap raptor skins in a row, where you know the majority of people would want at least one per mount type. Or at least a few for thier favourite mount.

This the bit that angers me. So you didn't get my purchase the other night. I like many others would have purchased skins and then some more as and when they were released if I liked the theme etc.

I'm not even going to waste my breath discussing the 2k SINGLE MOUNT skin.....

I was quite vocal on Reddit and Twitter and this is only because I am passionate about this game and I love you guys, I rarely say anything bad about you, untill this week :(

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I bought two certificates because I happened to have $10 to spend, but I won't be buying more. If I could choose which skin I wanted I would, and if I could choose which mount I wanted a random skin for I might, but I can't excuse the potential expense of a totally randomized skin when I only use two mounts on a regular basis and currently have no intention of buying the griffon.

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Hello ArenaNet,

This update has left me outraged. I am not going to accept gambling for mount skins with real money and I refuse to play the game until the gambling element is removed.

I bought the full version of this game for a reason, because it seemed like one of the few customer friendly games out there. With a fair purchasing and trading system and no subscriptions required. But adding loot-box style gambling to your game is a business practice that is frowned upon in the community and it feels like an insult to me and the rest of your customers after I trusted you to be better than the other businesses in the video game industry. The BL chests were acceptable as it is possible to get keys without paying and getting its items for gold but under no circumstances am I going to accept this.

Gambling real money in a video game is wrong and should be restricted to things like casinos only. Please change this system so that it doesn't require you to fork out money to get what you want as it is predatory and manipulative on the minds of your customers, it also doesn't make any sense in terms of gameplay immersion. If this is changed, I will happily play again, albeit with a slightly damaged reputation of you but making better business decisions in the future should heal that.

For example, I would happily pay more than 400 gems for a non-randomised purchase rather than an RNG purchase with little chance of getting what I actually want.

Thank you.

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400g for a random chance feels incredibly predatory and disappointing, as a lot of people have said, especially since there's a chance to get skins for mounts you don't have. This is not such an issue with the three main mounts which are easy enough to obtain, but the griffon is a lot of gold and work to get, and many people may not have had time to complete the quest in time (myself included!

The skins are beautiful, but I don't understand why they weren't released in smaller batches where you can choose exactly what you want, much like the glider skins. Releasing all 30 at once in an RNG just feels like further encouragement to make people spend more as their chances of getting the skin they want are massively low. I felt a similar twinge of worry about the gambling direction the game is taking when the Black Lion Chests were updated to usually only have two BL store item slots, and the new "fixed" item slot, and when keys became less and less accessible through means other than paying with gems (admittedly though at least there ARE options to get the keys outside of gems from PvP, story and random drops etc.)

My suggestion would be if it really must be RNG based, make the contracts cheaper and allow people to sell them in the trading post (much like exclusive dyes) so it's fairer and opens up the skins to more of the community, otherwise have the contracts give you the choice of skins you want, so you don't end up with a skin for a mount you don't own and will have to do a lot of work to get, as in that case it's essentially paying $5 for a completely useless item.

Thank you for reaching out though.

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I'm going to come in with an unpopular opinion and maybe I'll get harassed over in game mail like the last time I posted on the forums! Looking forward to it! Sarcasm is great.

But honestly, I don't mind this because I played games like FFXIV where you pay a subscription and then farm trials for a chance that RNG will favour you and give you the rare mount that everyone in an 8 man party wants. This doesn't bug me, and while I can kind of understand why people are whining over not getting the exact mount skin they want, at least I am guaranteed SOMETHING for my money. This isn't a case where I take a gamble and get absolutely nothing in return for it. You don't even have to pay with a credit card for gems and it's not as difficult to get gold in game as it was 5 years ago so I honestly can't bring myself to complain about this.

Still, if you're that concerned about the amount of whiners among the playerbase, maybe putting in the option for them to pay a tiny bit more to get the skin they want guaranteed will be a good enough compromise to help ease the sounds of public outcry over an item in a game.

unpopularopinion

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@Tekoneiric.6817 said:

@Smoaking.6125 said:There are ZERO mount skins able to earned via gameplay. Z E R O.

The kick in the face is the default skins with only 2 dye channels and they make you gamble to get almost the same ones with 4 dye channels.

2 Dye Channels for the default mounts? Wow, I must have the paupers package as I can only dye my mounts a single colour :angry:

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(On a side note: my last line took things to a very dark place I realised. O_o After living the past couple of years fighting to have your voice heard over some big issues and being told you're just fussing or a minority so who cares, speaking about what I think about mount skin RNG and black lion chests feels so small... :'( I think I need a hug... )

hugs

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