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Official Mount Adoption Feedback Thread [merged]


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@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:You did a nice job of paraphrasing what I said: the game gives a lot of loot; it can't possibly be "good" loot as other games have, because we don't need special gear to succeed; and we dismiss the coin-value of "trash" loot as different from collectible tokens.

But there is plenty of "good loot" that is in the game already, it's just poorly distributed. Right now there are hundreds of items that people might consider "good loot" that are either A: omega rarity drops that most people will never see in the wild, or B: only earnable through completing specific content that not everyone cares to do. They could add a lot of value to the game by presenting better paths to save up for those sorts of items via more practical ingame activities. Let people save up for Black Lion Keys. Let people save up for PvP/WvW specific armors via PvE play. Let people save up for Envoy Armors and similar items through general activities.

And before you suggest that in at least some cases gold could fill this role, remember that gold is subject to the whims of the market, so the more people have, the less it is worth. This needs to be a non-market currency that retains full value regardless of how much of it exists.

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Buy a bunch of skins for US$100/EU$120/AU$175 when you wont use most cause they look pretty bland & you can only use one at a time... After the shitstorm that occurred with HOT release you would think you guys would have learnt to not shit on your customers. You get players returning to play POF & then you pull this stunt.

There is literally only two benefits from screwing your players like this.The first is a lot of them are just copy paste models with minor changes so nice & easy to make (after the time consuming first one). Many people (the most vocal at least) would rather just buy 1 skin for each mount. By doing this way the ones noone wants will still sell & the ncsoft report will have higher number of prem store items sold which may bring some bargaining power depending on how well pof sold. The second is by screwing your players with gambling you create fear they may miss the skins they want & it pushes them towards buying the slightly discounted packs.

So to the disadvantages. Well it is obvious you have really really pissed off many people from the countless threads & comments in them. You havent really responded cause you are waiting for the sales & player reports to see if it was successful regardless of the rage. You also miss out on people who wont gamble on principle or dont want to risk getting stuck with crap looking skins. Then the people who dont have the ingame gold & cant afford to drop $100+ on nothing more than some eye candy.Then there is the rng issue. If people dont buy the discounted packs & decide to try their luck they might get the couple they want in the first say 4 & wont buy any more which makes the scam less effective. That seems like a big risk & only way I can see you could have avoided that is if you secretly rigged the rng so the best looking ones wouldnt drop unless account licenses ownership was say more than 10 or you did what you do with the blc chests & made the chances of getting the best looking ones super super low compared to the rest. Sure you can deny it & say that it's all equal chance but you reaaly think people will believe you after seeing you pull a stunt like this?

The alternatives?

  1. Companies like Amazon & walmart rely on selling cheaper but selling more instead. As I said many just want the ones they like best so by itself this wouldnt work. It would have rely on something like 300-400gems for each mount & if you complete the "collection" by buying them all then you unlock a good looking exclusive skin.
  2. You sell them in predefined packs & I dont mean like Halloween pack. I mean like packs of say 5 with the obvious most popular ones spread across groups.
  3. You sell them singular at 600-800 & let people buy the few they want. Selling a singular skin for 2000gems ($20-25) is stupid & only the rich, ocd & addicted will purchase it. However I do suspect that was put there purely to help sell the licenses to stupid people who compare the two & believe the licenses are a great deal despite all prices being artificially created/inflated.
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I do not mind BL chests because there is a way to earn keys through gameplay. I find the lootbox gambling of the new mount skins very disappointing. Despite the fact that I indulge in a bit of fashion wars, buying skins with irl money once a month, I will not be partaking in this instance.

How would I like to see you guys fix this? Add some mount skin collections. The legendary collections had me spending lots of gems to buy gold to get the materials to make it. Remove the RNG element from the skin purchases, and keep that limited to BL chests, which are achievable through gameplay.

Thank you for your time and your great game.

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Make packs of all the same type mounts, and packs with different effects like fire and celestial etc, charge the 1600 gems like the Halloween pack. Sell each skin individually for 400-800 gems and let people pick and pay the price accordingly. Keep the 30 pack up longer for those who cannot get the cash within 7 days to purchase it but would like to, maybe they need more time to work some overtime to get it. If it’s rng then lower the price to 200 gems per license so players are more apt to buy the gems.

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Make packs of all the same type mounts, and packs with different effects like fire and celestial etc, charge the 1600 gems like the Halloween pack. Sell each skin individually for 400-800 gems and let people pick and pay the price accordingly. Keep the 30 pack up longer for those who cannot get the cash within 7 days to purchase it but would like to, maybe they need more time to work some overtime to get it. If it’s rng then lower the price to 200 gems per license so players are more apt to buy the gems.

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The logic that the game can not survive on box purchases alone is false. We'd be paying a lower distributed cost in more frequent expansions at the cost of having as many free updates. We'd be paying full box price for these expansions. We'd be getting the full result of an entire development effort in once chunk. Actual cost of hosting servers in 2017 is DRASTICALLY lower than the days of the subscription model. Actual cost of developing games has not changed as drastically as you are led to believe, as the labor market in the industry is much more competitive and it is far easier to acquire better talent for less investment.

Microtransactions effectively monetize a minority of a game's player base for the majority of their revenue by specifically targeting so-called "whales"

Effective expansion models effectively monetize every player by distributing the income across the entire player base, and encourage the developers to release high value content loaded with whatever the players find desirable rather than specifically building their games in such a way as to withold content in order to drive cash shop sales under the guise of "free updates"

The cost of developing and hosting an MMO in 2017 is not drastically dissimilar than the cost of maintaining online services for the plethora of shooters and sports games that offer these services for free, release iterative games once a year, and did not adopt microtransaction models until very recently although their business model was already so sustainable it bootstrapped multiple other projects. Very little of the added value from embracing a microtransaction model is actually reinvested in developing the game you buy them in.

The idea that "they have to have a cash shop" is a myth. Offering discreet large chunks of complete content for direct pricing and placing all of the rewards within that package is very much a sustainable business model. If I had to choose between buying slightly more expensive expansions with no free updates that have all the rewards in the game, or having more free single map updates with two skins and being saddled with a cash shop and living in an environment where playing the game is not sufficient to access whatever reward mechanisms exist, I would most certainly choose the former. The problem is that without those people who "should know better" or "have the money anyway" spending hundreds and hundreds of collars more than the average on "optional" cash shop items, the profits do not keep pace with the rest of the industry. Making enough to continue making your game and paying your developers well is not the objective of such systems. Making as much as the rest of the industry that is exploiting their players for piles of money to deliver to cranky shareholders is.

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@Nikal.4921 said:Mount skins should be sold and priced like glider skins. 400 gems for basic, 500 gems for those with effects. Perhaps room for premium skins for 700 gems. Anything more is a rip-off IMO.

They prefer 2k gems for the one u get to choose. Lets sell the expansion without any obtainable mount skins, wait a few weeks and start cashing in at 25euro/skin.

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I don't like presence of real money gambling in a game. A lot of people in the gaming world have expressed hate for this business model. You chose to implement this exactly while everyone is heated about this issue. Are you guys trying to make people hate you? I came back to play GW2 after taking a break from it a few years ago. I find some comfort in it knowing that it didn't have any loot box bs cancer affecting the games today. Well, that didn't last long.

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@Dianekas.4359 said:

@Nikal.4921 said:Mount skins should be sold and priced like glider skins. 400 gems for basic, 500 gems for those with effects. Perhaps room for premium skins for 700 gems. Anything more is a rip-off IMO.

They prefer 2k gems for the one u get to choose. Lets sell the expansion without any obtainable mount skins, wait a few weeks and start cashing in at 25euro/skin.

Now imagine if you want 1 skin for each mount. At 2k gems per skin that's 10k gems. Even more expensive than the unlock-all-package!

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Zzz I got baited in buying 1 box and I got the most boring skin for the most boring mount... Yaaay! 5 bucks down the drain! This is the exact reason I don't buy games that focus on loot boxes and I avoid the black lion chest.

Path of Fire was to good to be true. They had to get negative attention someway.

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I love how everyone panics so much about mounts, when in fact there are more BL skins, Glider skins you'd be getting for a much more expensive way if you want to collect them all. just because they released them all at ones doens't mean they are more expensive then other skin like things from the BLTP.

i think anet did a fine job making OPTIONAL skins for the fashion wars and yes, the game is 5 years old, wil probably not sell as much as it did at launch, and yet they have the heart to keep developing and creating stories and expansions and every other feature and bug that is currently in game. Have some decency for them since all they want to do is make a living creating something we all love... ffs 9600 gems for 30 mount skins... THIRTY!! get your act together because Nothing in life is free. These are optional and if you want them, you'll have to gamble for it.

Anet devs. Nice work on the skins, tho the coloration might be a bit too horrible xD. But i bought a few adopt licenses and got a nice jackal one. I like it, keep this up ^^

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The RNG mount skins that everybody is freaking out about are a perfect example of my earlier point (i.e. that the game is not rewarding, and that skins don't matter). I decided to just go ahead and get all the mount-skins yesterday, because, why not? So the first one I got was the "Reforged Warhound." But I was disappointed to see that it runs like it has arthritic hips, and makes a top of the line gaming-machine freeze and hitch when it teleports... Not so impressive. But, SURELY, the other 30 mounts are pretty cool. right? So I settled on the flaming raptor, the frosty rabbit, the light-up skimmer, and the flaming griffon. And, in the end... it was a gigantic basket of, "WHO THE FUCK CARES?"

-The first problem, is that getting these mounts has no connection to actually playing the game.-The second problem is that these mounts add nothing but visual-clutter to what you already had to begin with-The third problem is that they literally CAUSE lag.

So, I ran past the bank, and saw everyone clustered in a group... showing off their new lag-machines to the "have nots." And it was literally embarrassing. This, in a nutshell, is the entire game right now... people working for nothing (e.g. skins), in order to show off their nothing to strangers who don't care.

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My post will most probably be overlooked because come on, it's page 44, but here I go.

You delivered us a game in 2012, that broke out of shackles of typical MMO genre, you improved on so many systems and we all learned to love it all. You built trust with your players and gained not only a lot of positive feedback and reviews all over the internet, but also respect of entire player community. We were always known for being the nicest entry MMO because of how friendly players tend to behave on regular basis.

At first, you had big dreams with bi-weekly updates. We understood the need of a change, we embraced it and then HoT came out and things were getting back on track. Not soon after, we started to realize that major gameplay mechanic of gliding, has ZERO customization options that are available through normal gameplay - until first legendary backpiece was released. Things started to go downhill from there, gameplay-like rewards started to be added into gemshop (Xera mask, Slothasor backpiece, ect.), there was a negative feedback about it, nonetheless nothing has changed.

Then you try out the waters with account-bound weapon skins (Privateer), this lesson you learned though and that is good.Boom, exclusive RNG based skins in Black Lion Chests arrive, massive negative feedback is received, but ultimately players understand that it's just one small thing and you can earn keys by playing too, we swallowed our rage and let you keep these things inside boxes, fine...

Time skip to PoF, we all knew that mount skins will be in gemshop sooner or later. It was understandable to keep the game running and pay employees for all their hard work. But guys, when you release THIRTY skins at once, ALL of them gemshop-only and locked behind an expensive RNG, plus one that is clearly overpriced as seven hells...First question I would have is: who the hell even thought this is gonna be a good idea or good pricing?Second question: Do you even read feedback from the past? Do your community managers and public relations even work at all? For me it seems like they are either interns or sleeping on the job. In first case - educate them properly and motivate them to learn their profession, in second case (as much as I hate to say it) - fire the ones who are working with fingers up their noses and hire new motivated professionals.Same goes for economist team who slaps prices on items. Are you serious? First you release only mount packs, then you release RNG mounts where all of them are 400 gems... Look at gliders, you pay 700 gems for a combo with a backpiece, and gliders are used a looooot. Now look at mounts, you use one of five at a time, and in many cases you forget about them whatsoever, they are 1 skin based and always have same skeletons so far, or even models for most of them, thay are at most worth 200 gems each, and 400 maybe for the heavy particle ones.

Wake up arenanet, time to go back to the game you created originally and stay away from corporate trendy RNG bullshit pachinko.

If not for the fact that I'm living in Europe, I would literally go to your HQ, apply for a job, get hired and teach you how to do public relations and economics of the game.

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@Dukotje.4382 said:I love how everyone panics so much about mounts, when in fact there are more BL skins, Glider skins you'd be getting for a much more expensive way if you want to collect them all. just because they released them all at ones doens't mean they are more expensive then other skin like things from the BLTP.

i think anet did a fine job making OPTIONAL skins for the fashion wars and yes, the game is 5 years old, wil probably not sell as much as it did at launch, and yet they have the heart to keep developing and creating stories and expansions and every other feature and bug that is currently in game. Have some decency for them since all they want to do is make a living creating something we all love... kitten 9600 gems for 30 mount skins... THIRTY!! get your act together because Nothing in life is free. These are optional and if you want them, you'll have to gamble for it.

Anet devs. Nice work on the skins, tho the coloration might be a bit too horrible xD. But i bought a few adopt licenses and got a nice jackal one. I like it, keep this up ^^

wow finally a word from an arenanet employee . lol.....

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@Dukotje.4382 said:I love how everyone panics so much about mounts, when in fact there are more BL skins, Glider skins you'd be getting for a much more expensive way if you want to collect them all. just because they released them all at ones doens't mean they are more expensive then other skin like things from the BLTP.

i think anet did a fine job making OPTIONAL skins for the fashion wars and yes, the game is 5 years old, wil probably not sell as much as it did at launch, and yet they have the heart to keep developing and creating stories and expansions and every other feature and bug that is currently in game. Have some decency for them since all they want to do is make a living creating something we all love... kitten 9600 gems for 30 mount skins... THIRTY!! get your act together because Nothing in life is free. These are optional and if you want them, you'll have to gamble for it.

Anet devs. Nice work on the skins, tho the coloration might be a bit too horrible xD. But i bought a few adopt licenses and got a nice jackal one. I like it, keep this up ^^

I literally laughed out loud. Thanks for that ?

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So much entitlement. It's only been A DAY.

They could have trickled the skins as "single buy" - starting with the simple ones that are just "more dyes" and every few weeks releasing slighly more complex ones. Many would buy the "simple" skins if that was all there was, and then 4 weeks later a set of more "complex" ones and one and on etc... People would have paid 400 for many skins over time, probably bought a dozen or more.

They chose to make them all available at once which I think is cool. More diversity.

But once they did that, they could either make the super fancy skins very expensive (people would complain there too, yes?) or try something else. I think Arenanet tried to think of a mechanism that would feed mount skins in the system slowly, give people something to look forward to over a bit of time, so as to not have the same mount for everyone at the same time. They came up with this one. Giving people things to look forward to and grow over time, as people are always complaining there's not enough new skins etc.

I'd say give it time. Right now they are all on tickets but I suspect perhaps the plan is to have the option to buy single mount skin, perhaps as time specials.

"If I can't get exactly the skin I want right now I will quit the game" - seriously? But you would have paid 400 for the 4 dye "simple" skin if that is all they had released. But somehow just knowing there's other skins you might not get makes you fume? How vicious everyone is over skins when mounts are so great? This is "fear of missing out" gone mad.

Just wait, there will be more ways to get them eventually, I am sure!

Disclaimer: I am not a gambler and I am not a completist so I can resist many of the sink mechanics in games, like mini collections etc.

I love this game and I really respect that they try to get their income without selling distinct in-game advantage. So I now and then buy gems and spend them. Roughly twice a year, in a way I do it instead of "subscription" to keep the machine running. It's still cheap comparing to all the steam games I would buy if I didnt remember I am so hooked on GW2 I don't play them. GW2 remains a cheap gaming hobby.

I maxed out on useful things and I don't fancy wing skins (they make it harder to be precise in flight, usually) or outfits as I like to mix and match for originality, but I have bought some outfits, skins, and I even bought keys once or twice. I bought 2 mounts. Got the simple ones but not upset, i can dyes to match my characters and that is already fun. Though I might wait until I have the griffin to get more than a couple.

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Playing since headstart, still waiting for a precursor drop ?

Loot at all haven't been really rewarding for me.I know people with more then 8 precursor drops for example or people who got 3 touch of madness drops during Halloween.Would like if they increase the chance of really good drops with play time and then reset that chance when you get one.

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I seriously do not see an issue with the state they implemented. They have a good way to introduce even more mount skins to the roster and for more mounts in the future. It can clearly be build upon and the price is fine. People need to seriously remind themselves that they can also convert in-game gold into gems. and 400 isn't an outlandish goal.. This even gives people who don't want to pay for these skins with real money a decent farm long term goal. AND on top of all that, they ensured you will not get duplicate skins, This is RNG and lootboxing done right. and Anet should honestly be thanked for how this was done. If anet didnt do the RNG thing they likely would've made the costs on the mounts different. you think the for example, electric raptor, celestial jackal and the starbound griffon would cost 400 gems or less you gotta be kidding yourself.

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