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Official Mount Adoption Feedback Thread [merged]


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I bought about 10 Skins in Gemstore the last years for about 700 or 800 Gems, most of them with money. Im just more now a Casual Player and when theres a skin which looks nice, iam buying it. But 2000 Gems for One Skin is a little bit too high. AND i would never as a Casual Player touching this Gambling Lootboxes. Just Put the Skins in Gemstore for same price as the Outfits, in my oppion the best solution. (AND dont forget the Content)

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Back in the day, my good friend with an in-game name Saavo really wanted the Elemental Sword. He bought thirty keys in total with real money, and he didn't get it.Me, i got a random key from a mob drop, and got the sword, even though i didn't want it. I still don't - the consumable is still in my bank, months later.I couldn't give it to him, because it's account bound.So he quit the game out of frustration, and never returned.

Do you see what is horribly wrong with this story, and how relevant it is to the mount thing?

You could've been better than the rest of the industry, ANET. You could've been a shining example of customer friendly practices among greedy, corporatr businessmen. That is why people are upset - they, including me, thought that you were better than this.

I can't keep supporting you guys as long as this your attitude towards your loyal fanbase. I already seen way too many of my friends leave gw2 because of it, and i too am tired now.

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Did anyone stop to consider that MAYBE Anet didn't have much of a choice? If sales are declining, there is no reason not to shutter the game completely? Would you rather have lootboxes or no GW2 at all?

Because the harsh reality is that there are a LOT of games on the market. And most of them are BS mobile games that make WAY more money for WAY less effort than a game like GW2. I don't think our average forum poster understands how business works. It's not enough to just "make profit" ... but you have to be growing. You have to doing things that shows y-o-y revenue increases. Plenty of "profitable" companies have been closed because they aren't profitable enough. For those who don't know much (which I am assuming are most of these people complaining), it's called Return On Investment or ROI.

Here's a simplified example. Let's say you have $10 to invest in a game. One game will take all $10, and only return $3 more dollars. But there are four smaller mobile games that only take $1 and will return $4 each, and then two other games that need a $3 investment but will return $5 each. You can invest all $10 into the first company and make a profit -- hooray! -- but it's only a $3 profit and now you have $13. On the other hands, you could have pumped that money and time into those other games and with the same $10 you could have made $25 (a profit of $15, which is more than $3). The ROI is vastly different.

This gets even more complicated when you start talking about trends (i.e., every year, you know that big game that needed $10? well it still needs that much to develop but it has been making less and less returns, while mobile games make MORE each year).

Long story short. Anet is beholding to overlords (ncsoft). And being profitable isn't good enough. They need to show growth. Otherwise, they will get less and less support from their overlords. They won't be able to hire more people or attract new talent when people leave. And the game will die. This happens.

So, today, how about we all take a big, deep breath and thank Anet for a fun game that lets YOU choose how you spend your money on it... because it might be gone tomorrow.

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I feel like this lootbox mount skin fiasco opened my eyes. If you look at the game everything you do in the game it slowly points you to the shop at the end. Every new map they add brings like dozen new items, keys and stuff that bloats your inventory space. Hey you can craft this ascended bag after like a year of grinding (with rng plasma gamble) for a regular player OR you can buy this new bag slot right now. Same with gathering tools. Legendary armor takes monts of grind maybe more to get and you cant even dye it properly but gem outfit you CAN.

And look at PoF now. I finished it after like a week or two. I also have the griffon and all the mesteries. PoF has no endgame no good rewards to chase. We wanted new mount skins true and we got them.. but only behind the rng paywall ...now is the endgame of pof so much better right?

Maybe it is just me but the store gets into my face more and more? I know its MMO its suppose to be grindy. But still endgame of any MMO is about the cosmetics and how to get them not just buy them for money. This imbalance of quality of ingame items vs inshop items is becoming too great.

Sometimes I feel like the game is frutrating me on purpose so I end my missery in the gem store. It wasnt always like that.

But its of course just my opinion.

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But still endgame of any MMO is about the cosmetics...

Maybe to you, I have pretty much zero interest in cosmetics, end game is some form of PvP in any MMO I play, cosmetics are just optional fluff for which they can charge what they want to people who want to play dress up like my 10 year old niece.

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I had a very hard time believing the news when I first saw it. So many games falling prey to the Great Gambling Infection of 2017, but surely not GW2...?

Now I am ashamed. Completely and utterly ashamed to have been a strong defender of GW2's cash shop up to this point. I will not spend another cent on gems after this.

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@IndigoSundown.5419 said:

Over the past year or so, we have seen more and more attempts to get people to purchase things they might not want in order to get things they do want. Bundles are good for consumers if the bundle contains things they want at a price lower than the individual prices of those items. They are not good deals for consumers if the consumer only wants one of the items and cannot buy that item separately. If you examine the store offerings, ANet is probably making enough off bundling to warrant them continuing to use that tactic. What is not known is how much they might have made by selling the items separately.

Ultimately, while the business must do what the business must do, the consumer also must look to their own welfare. Since we don't know what ANet's Profit & Loss statements look like, speculating on whether they had to resort to this approach cannot be a discussion item for us. What is appropriate for consumers to discuss is what works for them.

Sometimes there are consequences for making business choices. The way the mounts are packaged was apparently a bad choice, at least if this thread is any indication. I don't condone some of the more extreme positions taken, nor the invective. However, most of what I've read has been consumers speaking out about whether they are willing to support this sales model, or whether they are willing to support a company that tries to get more out of the sale of a luxury item than the market will bear.

I would not be surprised if the adoption skins include draft versions of mounts that were later replaced by the final versions, added to several purpose built skins with particle effects, etc. I would also not be surprised if the adoption initiative, coupled with the large price for a single skin, was an attempt to see what the market would bear. If sales are great despite the negative reaction, then we might see more of the same going forward. If not, we'll likely see a different approach by ANet.

I'm looking to see what Arenanet does next as well. There's a poll thread that seems to indicate that people actually hate the RNG aspect of these stables, the pricing actually seems fine. Given how the Halloween Skins worked out, Arenanet probably felt like 400 gems per skin was appropriate even if someone got a retexture and not any remodels.

They are probably really confused at the moment because there was no doubt about the several threads weeks ago talking about customizing mounts and how the forum would throw money for said options.

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@pah.4931 said:Did anyone stop to consider that MAYBE Anet didn't have much of a choice? If sales are declining, there is no reason not to shutter the game completely? Would you rather have lootboxes or no GW2 at all?

Because the harsh reality is that there are a LOT of games on the market. And most of them are BS mobile games that make WAY more money for WAY less effort than a game like GW2. I don't think our average forum poster understands how business works. It's not enough to just "make profit" ... but you have to be growing. You have to doing things that shows y-o-y revenue increases. Plenty of "profitable" companies have been closed because they aren't profitable enough. For those who don't know much (which I am assuming are most of these people complaining), it's called Return On Investment or ROI.

Here's a simplified example. Let's say you have $10 to invest in a game. One game will take all $10, and only return $3 more dollars. But there are four smaller mobile games that only take $1 and will return $4 each, and then two other games that need a $3 investment but will return $5 each. You can invest all $10 into the first company and make a profit -- hooray! -- but it's only a $3 profit and now you have $13. On the other hands, you could have pumped that money and time into those other games and with the same $10 you could have made $25 (a profit of $15, which is more than $3). The ROI is vastly different.

This gets even more complicated when you start talking about trends (i.e., every year, you know that big game that needed $10? well it still needs that much to develop but it has been making less and less returns, while mobile games make MORE each year).

Long story short. Anet is beholding to overlords (ncsoft). And being profitable isn't good enough. They need to show growth. Otherwise, they will get less and less support from their overlords. They won't be able to hire more people or attract new talent when people leave. And the game will die. This happens.

So, today, how about we all take a big, deep breath and thank Anet for a fun game that lets YOU choose how you spend your money on it... because it might be gone tomorrow.

But why should we care how their business work. You are not their friend you are just a paying customer of their service they provide. I am more then happy to pay for the years of service they gave us but if I feel like the direction they are taking is becoming anticustomer I have the right to let me be heard.

And I think you would be suprised how much money they make.

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@zinkz.7045 said:

But still endgame of any MMO is about the cosmetics...

Maybe to you, I have pretty much zero interest in cosmetics, end game is some form of PvP in any MMO I play, cosmetics are just optional fluff for which they can charge what they want to people who want to play dress up like my 10 year old niece.

Well maybe to you also. But for the majority its all about the Fashion Wars. Why do you think are the cosmetics so popular and profitable in any game. Think about that.

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@Inferno.3217 said:Anet dont mind all these people that are complaining and want you to remove RNG. Imo this form of mount skins is acceptable the only change i would make is to let the people choose mount type(raptor griffon etc) and leave RNG part as it is because it makes you some money and is fun for some players. Luck is part of every game and even part of life so complaining about it is pretty pathetic.

Yeah... I feel like the only reason why this time it's creating all that drama is because people actually REALLY REALLY want theses skins because there is no other skin available in game.. whereas seasonal rng items... only a few people care about them (i'm one of them sadly).This backslash is a bit too extreme imho. This "concept" was already in game, for years, and it's only now that people are calling "shame" on anet, not because it's new but because this time more people want the premium skins.

if you don't want to pay that amount, you aren't the target of these premiums. Now yes you can try to discuss about getting alternative ways like paying more to select a specific mount. You can also discuss the fact that this is supposed to be a game, and there none of these mounts are actually earn able in game (this is the actual issue imho, rng isn't nearly as bad as other lootboxes).

But please, stop with the extreme language. Anet doesn't have to be ashamed for this. There is no subscription fee, these are purely cosmetic items, Anet still doesn't sell pay to win items like they always say they wouldn't.

(At Anet: Next time you do that, add a merchant and sell mounts with gold, people won't see "gems" on the price and half of them won't be complaining (aka ecto gambling)

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@Roadkill.2374 said:

@pah.4931 said:Did anyone stop to consider that MAYBE Anet didn't have much of a choice? If sales are declining, there is no reason not to shutter the game completely? Would you rather have lootboxes or no GW2 at all?

Because the harsh reality is that there are a LOT of games on the market. And most of them are BS mobile games that make WAY more money for WAY less effort than a game like GW2. I don't think our average forum poster understands how business works. It's not enough to just "make profit" ... but you have to be growing. You have to doing things that shows y-o-y revenue increases. Plenty of "profitable" companies have been closed because they aren't profitable enough. For those who don't know much (which I am assuming are most of these people complaining), it's called Return On Investment or ROI.

Here's a simplified example. Let's say you have $10 to invest in a game. One game will take all $10, and only return $3 more dollars. But there are four smaller mobile games that only take $1 and will return $4 each, and then two other games that need a $3 investment but will return $5 each. You can invest all $10 into the first company and make a profit -- hooray! -- but it's only a $3 profit and now you have $13. On the other hands, you could have pumped that money and time into those other games and with the same $10 you could have made $25 (a profit of $15, which is more than $3). The ROI is vastly different.

This gets even more complicated when you start talking about trends (i.e., every year, you know that big game that needed $10? well it still needs that much to develop but it has been making less and less returns, while mobile games make MORE each year).

Long story short. Anet is beholding to overlords (ncsoft). And being profitable isn't good enough. They need to show growth. Otherwise, they will get less and less support from their overlords. They won't be able to hire more people or attract new talent when people leave. And the game will die. This happens.

So, today, how about we all take a big, deep breath and thank Anet for a fun game that lets YOU choose how you spend your money on it... because it might be gone tomorrow.

But why should we care how their business work. You are not their friend you are just a paying customer of their service they provide. I am more then happy to pay for the years of service they gave us but if I feel like the direction they are taking is becoming anticustomer I have the right to let me be heard.

And I think you would be suprised how much money they make.

But let's keep this in perspective. To pay just ONE yearly employee salary of $80,000 (not including any other benefit, and I can guarantee you, in Seattle, most salaries are much higher than this), Anet would need to sell all 30 skins (120 bucks) to 667 players. And then there is rent, advertising, insurance, etc etc etc.

It takes a LOT of money to keep a business going. And, like I said, it doesn't matter how much money they make. They need to show growth and a decent ROI, otherwise investors money is better spent elsewhere.

Again. You don't understand how business works. It's not as simple as you think. It's not: "Hey. We made 10 million dollars and now we have 10 million more dollars to spend on GW2 development."

They have investors. They have numbers they have to hit. Otherwise, the game shuts down. And people seem OK with the game shutting down, as long as they get to choose their Mount Skin.

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@pah.4931 said:

@Roadkill.2374 said:

@pah.4931 said:Did anyone stop to consider that MAYBE Anet didn't have much of a choice? If sales are declining, there is no reason not to shutter the game completely? Would you rather have lootboxes or no GW2 at all?

Because the harsh reality is that there are a LOT of games on the market. And most of them are BS mobile games that make WAY more money for WAY less effort than a game like GW2. I don't think our average forum poster understands how business works. It's not enough to just "make profit" ... but you have to be growing. You have to doing things that shows y-o-y revenue increases. Plenty of "profitable" companies have been closed because they aren't profitable enough. For those who don't know much (which I am assuming are most of these people complaining), it's called Return On Investment or ROI.

Here's a simplified example. Let's say you have $10 to invest in a game. One game will take all $10, and only return $3 more dollars. But there are four smaller mobile games that only take $1 and will return $4 each, and then two other games that need a $3 investment but will return $5 each. You can invest all $10 into the first company and make a profit -- hooray! -- but it's only a $3 profit and now you have $13. On the other hands, you could have pumped that money and time into those other games and with the same $10 you could have made $25 (a profit of $15, which is more than $3). The ROI is vastly different.

This gets even more complicated when you start talking about trends (i.e., every year, you know that big game that needed $10? well it still needs that much to develop but it has been making less and less returns, while mobile games make MORE each year).

Long story short. Anet is beholding to overlords (ncsoft). And being profitable isn't good enough. They need to show growth. Otherwise, they will get less and less support from their overlords. They won't be able to hire more people or attract new talent when people leave. And the game will die. This happens.

So, today, how about we all take a big, deep breath and thank Anet for a fun game that lets YOU choose how you spend your money on it... because it might be gone tomorrow.

But why should we care how their business work. You are not their friend you are just a paying customer of their service they provide. I am more then happy to pay for the years of service they gave us but if I feel like the direction they are taking is becoming anticustomer I have the right to let me be heard.

And I think you would be suprised how much money they make.

But let's keep this in perspective. To pay just ONE yearly employee salary of $80,000 (not including any other benefit, and I can guarantee you, in Seattle, most salaries are much higher than this), Anet would need to sell all 30 skins (120 bucks) to 667 players. And then there is rent, advertising, insurance, etc etc etc.

It takes a LOT of money to keep a business going. And, like I said, it doesn't matter how much money they make. They need to show growth and a decent ROI, otherwise investors money is better spent elsewhere.

Again. You don't understand how business works. It's not as simple as you think. It's not: "Hey. We made 10 million dollars and now we have 10 million more dollars to spend on GW2 development."

They have investors. They have numbers they have to hit. Otherwise, the game shuts down. And people seem OK with the game shutting down, as long as they get to choose their Mount Skin.

As a business person too i have to bring the fact that you are only talking about numbers and that is a mindset of an 80's businessman.

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@Roadkill.2374 said:

@zinkz.7045 said:

But still endgame of any MMO is about the cosmetics...

Maybe to you, I have pretty much zero interest in cosmetics, end game is some form of PvP in any MMO I play, cosmetics are just optional fluff for which they can charge what they want to people who want to play dress up like my 10 year old niece.

Well maybe to you also. But for the majority its all about the Fashion Wars. Why do you think are the cosmetics so popular and profitable in any game. Think about that.

That doesn't make it the "endgame", I mean there are skins/cosmetic items for most games, so yes there is a demand for it, but it is not the end game, LOL, Overwatch, DOTA 2, etc all have far more players than this game (more than any MMORPG or in fact more than several combined in some cases), do they have cosmetic elements, yeah sure, but that is not "end game" in any of them.

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I have been playing GW2 since release and over the years I have spent a considerable amount on gems (I have never wasted them on BL keys as that is just a complete rip-off). I was happy to do this to support the game I love in this way as I could use the gems to get something I'd chosen from the gem store. I am, however, disgusted at the use of rng in these mount skin adoption contracts. If I could have bought the mount skins of my choice I would have already done so (with real money) but I will not accept this disgusting money grabbing method of attempting to get them (hoping I might get the skin i want). Let us choose the skins we want and if I like one I'll buy it if not you'll never get my money as I don't like gambling. Please Anet rethink the rng aspect you can also get rid of the useless BL chests at the same time. Gem store should allow you to buy what you want without the gamble!!!

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@Roadkill.2374 said:

@pah.4931 said:Did anyone stop to consider that MAYBE Anet didn't have much of a choice? If sales are declining, there is no reason not to shutter the game completely? Would you rather have lootboxes or no GW2 at all?

Because the harsh reality is that there are a LOT of games on the market. And most of them are BS mobile games that make WAY more money for WAY less effort than a game like GW2. I don't think our average forum poster understands how business works. It's not enough to just "make profit" ... but you have to be growing. You have to doing things that shows y-o-y revenue increases. Plenty of "profitable" companies have been closed because they aren't profitable enough. For those who don't know much (which I am assuming are most of these people complaining), it's called Return On Investment or ROI.

Here's a simplified example. Let's say you have $10 to invest in a game. One game will take all $10, and only return $3 more dollars. But there are four smaller mobile games that only take $1 and will return $4 each, and then two other games that need a $3 investment but will return $5 each. You can invest all $10 into the first company and make a profit -- hooray! -- but it's only a $3 profit and now you have $13. On the other hands, you could have pumped that money and time into those other games and with the same $10 you could have made $25 (a profit of $15, which is more than $3). The ROI is vastly different.

This gets even more complicated when you start talking about trends (i.e., every year, you know that big game that needed $10? well it still needs that much to develop but it has been making less and less returns, while mobile games make MORE each year).

Long story short. Anet is beholding to overlords (ncsoft). And being profitable isn't good enough. They need to show growth. Otherwise, they will get less and less support from their overlords. They won't be able to hire more people or attract new talent when people leave. And the game will die. This happens.

So, today, how about we all take a big, deep breath and thank Anet for a fun game that lets YOU choose how you spend your money on it... because it might be gone tomorrow.

But why should we care how their business work. You are not their friend you are just a paying customer of their service they provide. I am more then happy to pay for the years of service they gave us but if I feel like the direction they are taking is becoming anticustomer I have the right to let me be heard.

And I think you would be suprised how much money they make.

In my case: Because I want the game to succeed. So I care about their business.

This... it's not even close to be the worst thing they've done. I know this opinion is a minority, but when it comes to gambling issues (I have some) I find it far worse to lock very convenient items behind money gambling (keys and permanent bank, dyes etc) with never a guaranteed chance to get anything, getting stacks and stacks of crap you don't need (I have STACKS of bank express that I don't need, talk about wasting money...)I remember getting insane over the tickets for the fused weapons the first year. THE FIRST YEAR. You had a very low chance to get these tickets, it was really bad RNG then. That was really hurting my gambling addiction. Not this! Not a gambling that is "finished", that reduces the RNG the more you play until there's none left.This gambling is generous compared to BL keys, you can turn it into a end goal by just farming goal just fine, no stress about it, it won't go away and every time you'll get a new skin.

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@pah.4931 said:Did anyone stop to consider that MAYBE Anet didn't have much of a choice? If sales are declining, there is no reason not to shutter the game completely? Would you rather have lootboxes or no GW2 at all?

Did anyone stop to consider sales are declining because they go out of their way to make threadbare expansions specifically so they can offer them for reduced prices and overcharge you for gem store skins on the back end for increased profit while intentionally making a more frustrating game with less rewarding content?

If they'd ACTUALLY moved to the expansion model and away from the "free updates subsidized by your annoyance at how few rewards are in them so you buy gem store stuff" model that was failing before they started working on HoT... has anyone considered they might be in a better place now? I mean by and large they used this model in the first game and made enough money to make a completely new game. An undertaking that costs way more time and money than making an expansion for an existing one.

Has anyone considered "free updates" does not actually mean "free updates" and you've been relying on a fickle and transient minority of the player base buying overpriced wallet-farming loot to provide the majority of the revenue rather than focusing on making the best possible product to make it attractive to the most possible users?

Did anyone stop to consider that the sales decline might be because they go out of their way to make a game where the point is convincing players to buy gems (or become licensed gold farmers for other players) rather than creating experiences so rich and rewarding people are happy to pay 60 bucks for expansions and tell everyone how awesome the game is?

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What hurts about this decision to put desirable content behind rng is the fact that someone somewhere took the decision to deliberately exclude a portion of their players from accessing this content. I certainly couldn’t afford to spend 9600 gems chasing the few I want, and neither could a lot of people who play. We all obviously care about the game, or we wouldn’t be here posting about it. What saddens me is the feeling that Arenanet are only interested in those of us with large amounts of cash to throw at them. I know there are staff who do care. These tactics are grasping and cheap, and it does them and us a disservice.

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In my opinion mount adoption with RNG system isn't bad itself. Bad idea was to make it the ony way to posses mount skin.You have such a beutifull game, with lots of possibility to encourage players to play, but play in a good mining. Do frastals, kill world bosses, do dungeons, events or metas on maps.But no, the only think you did, is iforsing players to posess more gold, by doing only more profitable things, or spent real money.Shame on you.

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@pah.4931 said:

@Roadkill.2374 said:

@pah.4931 said:Did anyone stop to consider that MAYBE Anet didn't have much of a choice? If sales are declining, there is no reason not to shutter the game completely? Would you rather have lootboxes or no GW2 at all?

Because the harsh reality is that there are a LOT of games on the market. And most of them are BS mobile games that make WAY more money for WAY less effort than a game like GW2. I don't think our average forum poster understands how business works. It's not enough to just "make profit" ... but you have to be growing. You have to doing things that shows y-o-y revenue increases. Plenty of "profitable" companies have been closed because they aren't profitable enough. For those who don't know much (which I am assuming are most of these people complaining), it's called Return On Investment or ROI.

Here's a simplified example. Let's say you have $10 to invest in a game. One game will take all $10, and only return $3 more dollars. But there are four smaller mobile games that only take $1 and will return $4 each, and then two other games that need a $3 investment but will return $5 each. You can invest all $10 into the first company and make a profit -- hooray! -- but it's only a $3 profit and now you have $13. On the other hands, you could have pumped that money and time into those other games and with the same $10 you could have made $25 (a profit of $15, which is more than $3). The ROI is vastly different.

This gets even more complicated when you start talking about trends (i.e., every year, you know that big game that needed $10? well it still needs that much to develop but it has been making less and less returns, while mobile games make MORE each year).

Long story short. Anet is beholding to overlords (ncsoft). And being profitable isn't good enough. They need to show growth. Otherwise, they will get less and less support from their overlords. They won't be able to hire more people or attract new talent when people leave. And the game will die. This happens.

So, today, how about we all take a big, deep breath and thank Anet for a fun game that lets YOU choose how you spend your money on it... because it might be gone tomorrow.

But why should we care how their business work. You are not their friend you are just a paying customer of their service they provide. I am more then happy to pay for the years of service they gave us but if I feel like the direction they are taking is becoming anticustomer I have the right to let me be heard.

And I think you would be suprised how much money they make.

But let's keep this in perspective. To pay just ONE yearly employee salary of $80,000 (not including any other benefit, and I can guarantee you, in Seattle, most salaries are much higher than this), Anet would need to sell all 30 skins (120 bucks) to 667 players. And then there is rent, advertising, insurance, etc etc etc.

It takes a LOT of money to keep a business going. And, like I said, it doesn't matter how much money they make. They need to show growth and a decent ROI, otherwise investors money is better spent elsewhere.

Again. You don't understand how business works. It's not as simple as you think. It's not: "Hey. We made 10 million dollars and now we have 10 million more dollars to spend on GW2 development."

They have investors. They have numbers they have to hit. Otherwise, the game shuts down. And people seem OK with the game shutting down, as long as they get to choose their Mount Skin.

@pah.4931 said:

@Roadkill.2374 said:

@pah.4931 said:Did anyone stop to consider that MAYBE Anet didn't have much of a choice? If sales are declining, there is no reason not to shutter the game completely? Would you rather have lootboxes or no GW2 at all?

Because the harsh reality is that there are a LOT of games on the market. And most of them are BS mobile games that make WAY more money for WAY less effort than a game like GW2. I don't think our average forum poster understands how business works. It's not enough to just "make profit" ... but you have to be growing. You have to doing things that shows y-o-y revenue increases. Plenty of "profitable" companies have been closed because they aren't profitable enough. For those who don't know much (which I am assuming are most of these people complaining), it's called Return On Investment or ROI.

Here's a simplified example. Let's say you have $10 to invest in a game. One game will take all $10, and only return $3 more dollars. But there are four smaller mobile games that only take $1 and will return $4 each, and then two other games that need a $3 investment but will return $5 each. You can invest all $10 into the first company and make a profit -- hooray! -- but it's only a $3 profit and now you have $13. On the other hands, you could have pumped that money and time into those other games and with the same $10 you could have made $25 (a profit of $15, which is more than $3). The ROI is vastly different.

This gets even more complicated when you start talking about trends (i.e., every year, you know that big game that needed $10? well it still needs that much to develop but it has been making less and less returns, while mobile games make MORE each year).

Long story short. Anet is beholding to overlords (ncsoft). And being profitable isn't good enough. They need to show growth. Otherwise, they will get less and less support from their overlords. They won't be able to hire more people or attract new talent when people leave. And the game will die. This happens.

So, today, how about we all take a big, deep breath and thank Anet for a fun game that lets YOU choose how you spend your money on it... because it might be gone tomorrow.

But why should we care how their business work. You are not their friend you are just a paying customer of their service they provide. I am more then happy to pay for the years of service they gave us but if I feel like the direction they are taking is becoming anticustomer I have the right to let me be heard.

And I think you would be suprised how much money they make.

But let's keep this in perspective. To pay just ONE yearly employee salary of $80,000 (not including any other benefit, and I can guarantee you, in Seattle, most salaries are much higher than this), Anet would need to sell all 30 skins (120 bucks) to 667 players. And then there is rent, advertising, insurance, etc etc etc.

It takes a LOT of money to keep a business going. And, like I said, it doesn't matter how much money they make. They need to show growth and a decent ROI, otherwise investors money is better spent elsewhere.

Again. You don't understand how business works. It's not as simple as you think. It's not: "Hey. We made 10 million dollars and now we have 10 million more dollars to spend on GW2 development."

They have investors. They have numbers they have to hit. Otherwise, the game shuts down. And people seem OK with the game shutting down, as long as they get to choose their Mount Skin.

The fastest way for an MMO to shut down isn't making a little less than anticipated, it's alienating the core player-base. Players are content. In fact players are the most important content an MMO has. Every guild leader or popular commander with a certain follower-base who quits the game costs GW2 more and more players. And in contrast to mobile games or even shooters, player fluctuation in MMOs is incredibly low. MMO players tend to stick to a single game for years. Keeping the existing players happy is thus the most important thing to increase player numbers and player investment. Only a player who invested time and emotions into the game opens his wallet at all. In the long term I'd wager the RNG-boxes hurt ANet more than the short term revenue can make up for.

There is only one situation in which alienating the player base over a quick cash grab is more lucrative than keeping the players happy is if the game is scheduled to be shut down anyways. But knowing ANet and GW2 we would have had leaks about that.

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@Deihnyx.6318 said:

@Roadkill.2374 said:

@pah.4931 said:Did anyone stop to consider that MAYBE Anet didn't have much of a choice? If sales are declining, there is no reason not to shutter the game completely? Would you rather have lootboxes or no GW2 at all?

Because the harsh reality is that there are a LOT of games on the market. And most of them are BS mobile games that make WAY more money for WAY less effort than a game like GW2. I don't think our average forum poster understands how business works. It's not enough to just "make profit" ... but you have to be growing. You have to doing things that shows y-o-y revenue increases. Plenty of "profitable" companies have been closed because they aren't profitable enough. For those who don't know much (which I am assuming are most of these people complaining), it's called Return On Investment or ROI.

Here's a simplified example. Let's say you have $10 to invest in a game. One game will take all $10, and only return $3 more dollars. But there are four smaller mobile games that only take $1 and will return $4 each, and then two other games that need a $3 investment but will return $5 each. You can invest all $10 into the first company and make a profit -- hooray! -- but it's only a $3 profit and now you have $13. On the other hands, you could have pumped that money and time into those other games and with the same $10 you could have made $25 (a profit of $15, which is more than $3). The ROI is vastly different.

This gets even more complicated when you start talking about trends (i.e., every year, you know that big game that needed $10? well it still needs that much to develop but it has been making less and less returns, while mobile games make MORE each year).

Long story short. Anet is beholding to overlords (ncsoft). And being profitable isn't good enough. They need to show growth. Otherwise, they will get less and less support from their overlords. They won't be able to hire more people or attract new talent when people leave. And the game will die. This happens.

So, today, how about we all take a big, deep breath and thank Anet for a fun game that lets YOU choose how you spend your money on it... because it might be gone tomorrow.

But why should we care how their business work. You are not their friend you are just a paying customer of their service they provide. I am more then happy to pay for the years of service they gave us but if I feel like the direction they are taking is becoming anticustomer I have the right to let me be heard.

And I think you would be suprised how much money they make.

In my case: Because I want the game to succeed. So I care about their business.

This... it's not even close to be the worst thing they've done. I know this opinion is a minority, but when it comes to gambling issues (I have some) I find it far worse to lock very convenient items behind money gambling (keys and permanent bank, dyes etc) with never a guaranteed chance to get anything, getting stacks and stacks of crap you don't need (I have STACKS of bank express that I don't need, talk about wasting money...)I remember getting insane over the tickets for the fused weapons the first year. THE FIRST YEAR. You had a very low chance to get these tickets, it was really bad RNG then. That was really hurting my gambling addiction. Not this! Not a gambling that is "finished", that reduces the RNG the more you play until there's none left.This gambling is generous compared to BL keys, you can turn it into a end goal by just farming goal just fine, no stress about it, it won't go away and every time you'll get a new skin.

So we have the same goal. I want the game to secceed too. That is why I am voicing my opinion and concerns here. I would not otherwise if I would not care. I just dont think this is the right way for them to be succesfull.

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Count me among those that refuse to pay for RNG. I've picked up a BLC skin or two from the trading post for gold, but that's as close as I've ever come to supporting RNG in the gem store. I've always been against it and ignore the various forms of loot boxes. They aren't worth it for me, not even for in game gold. It's a guaranteed unlock or obtained through actual game play for me or nothing at all.

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The RNG on this is something else- even when we’ve seen account-bound skins on black lion chests (the dwayna’s messanger pet for example) they’ve been reasonably attainable for less than £20. For all these skins, it’s a 1/30 chance for the one you want, and 400 gems a roll. I dont mind rng for cosmetics, and i dont mind micro transactions for cosmetics, but micro transactions and rng, for such a high price, are a line that shouldn’t be crossed. Unless this abusive practice stops, or is at least heavily curbed, I dont see myself supporting the game again.

Ways to fix this problem have already been suggested by the community: making it a “choose a skin” for 400 gems, splitting it into 5 parts (ie get a random Griffion skin for 400), or simply lowering the price of the product to 100-125 gems, to line up with black lion chests. As it is, this is Anet indulging in the most sickening form of corporate avarice out there, and it shouldn’t be supported. I just cant wait for the ESRB to call lootboxes what they are: gambling aimed at kids

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