Official Mount Adoption Feedback Thread [merged]

[Djinn.9245]

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@GreyWolf.8670 said:How is it NOT gambling? It's a slot machine just like the BLCs. The

only

difference is that you will eventually get all of the skins if you keep buying.

A key facet of gambling is that winning is never guaranteed.

Yep, same as this system. I want ONE particular skin. Anything else I get is a loss.

[Wolfheart.7483]

@Djinn.9245 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@GreyWolf.8670 said:How is it NOT gambling? It's a slot machine just like the BLCs. The

only

difference is that you will eventually get all of the skins if you keep buying.

A key facet of gambling is that winning is never guaranteed.

Yep, same as this system. I want ONE particular skin. Anything else I get is a loss.

Which makes it a gamble for you. It is not a gamble for every player.

I am absolutely in agreement that people should be able to directly buy skins they want. 100%. But equating these boxes to being identical to any other type of gambling is incorrect.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

@Djinn.9245 said:

@Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

@GreyWolf.8670 said:How is it NOT gambling? It's a slot machine just like the BLCs. The

only

difference is that you will eventually get all of the skins if you keep buying.

A key facet of gambling is that winning is never guaranteed.

Yep, same as this system. I want ONE particular skin. Anything else I get is a loss.

Just a note, just because the milestone for winning is farther than you are willing to venture does not mean it doesnt exist. I think this is the breaking point for the majority of the community, understandably.

[Frostfang.5109]

2000 gems for a SKIN is way too much. The endless gathering tools have a function and cost half of an exlusive mountSKIN!!!!800 would be fine!

[Galactic.6453]

@AnodicShadow.3647 said:There have been so many people who are trying to paint Anet in the worst possible light over this. There have been players in Map chat telling others to not team up with people who are buying the mount skins because to them, apparently people who buy them don't deserve respect. There are people who are actively out there trying to encourage others to not play/support GW2 anymore because of this decision. If that's not unnecessary hatred and anger, I don't know what is. This isn't something that warrants a cease of support for Anet for all of time. The fact that they're asking for feedback shows that they see that people aren't liking the decision and they can adjust it accordingly. I doubt that they sat there in a meeting and said "OK, let's worm more money out of people by exploiting and preying upon their unhealthy habits." like I have seen many people in an out of game say that was Anet's train of thought on this release That just makes Anet seem like an evil company that doesn't care about the people that play the game. Yeah, the whole concept of loot boxes might have a bad rep/history as of late, but again, Anet is not trying to become a Gacha game where you get tons upon tons of trash loot before getting that one ultra rare unit that's actually viable to use to progress the game. Someone could've thought getting two random mount skins for 10$ sounded like a genuinely fun and worthwhile idea. You never know. Everyone makes mistakes sometimes, people just need the space/time to fix them instead of being constantly harped on about it. They know that the majority does not agree with this adoption situation at this point already so here on Day 3, it's probably time to let the hate die down a bit because the stress probably isn't going to help. Associating the company as a whole with negative words/treating them as something that shouldn't be supported isn't fair to the people that work on the game who are genuinely passionate about the content that they release in it. You don't have to buy the mount skins if you don't agree with them, but "donating" 10$ at least once a year even just to have 800 gems to sit on won't hurt anyone and collectively, could provide more funding for content to be developed. Even then, it's still up to the player if they want to even do that. Once again, there's no need to hate Anet for this so much. Things will get better, have faith. :)

Goodwill is something you earn, not something you deserve from the get go. If everyone was like you they'd just get stepped on at every corner and nothing would change because "surely it's a mistake they will change next time :)". If they change it, then they will have earned goodwill. Until then, having faith is useless. And it's not like this is just the doing of one person who made a honest mistake. This stuff goes through multiple people and multiple companies and its effects are thoroughly researched and profits are estimated. And there's no way they didn't know about all the hubbub in the industry about lootboxes right now.

[GreyWolf.8670]

@Rashagar.8349 said:

@GreyWolf.8670 said:

@Rashagar.8349 said:

@GreyWolf.8670 said:

@neven.3785 said:This is not gambling as some people like to yell. They simply can't get exactly what they want some are pissed off at anet for sticking to their chosen business model for this game. I love that they offer skins now and am glad they didn't chose to lock away certain mounts behind an account upgrade , rather it is only about how pretty you can make our mount.

Now I would say that there have been much truer forms of gambling in this game for a long time. You have the mystic toilet, black lion chests and those oriann boxes at the start of this game. Then came ecto gambling and races. People didn't complain much about it then.

Instead they choose to try to take this out of proportion because they want a pretty and they want it now. This is a pretty childish reaction. If they matter to you, then buy them, if you feel it's a rip off, then use the free skin you get with your mastery unlock. The choice is yours and it is your responsibility to manage your finances responsibly.

For those with kids worried they will take advantage of your credit cards, then rid the accounts of your info and make sure you don't use auto fill.

When my child bought $100 worth of robox because my autofill synced to the tablet from my phone, I didn't blame roblox or Google, I blamed myself and made him pay back every cent and donated all that currency to his brother as punishment. Then I removed all that information and disabled synchronization like a responsible person should.

So yes I like this concept, I like you don't get doubles and I like that you don't have to buy them. Only change that would have been better would be for anet to break up the bundles into mount types as that full bundle price is a hard pill to swallow for the common folk. As a side note I bought myself one and gifted one to my wife, this will likely take place of the odd black lion key purchases we make every month or two to support anet until we get all the mounts we want

How is it NOT gambling? It's a slot machine just like the BLCs. The

only

difference is that you will eventually get all of the skins if you keep buying.

Which is a fairly big difference. I don't know of any slot machine that will eventually give me all of the money if I keep playing.

Nope, that's not what that means.

gam·ble[ˈɡambəl]VERBgambling (present participle)

1. play games of chance for money; bet:"she was fond of gambling on cards and horses"synonyms: bet · place/lay a bet on something · stake money on something · [more]
2. bet (a sum of money) on a game of chance:"he was gambling every penny he had on the spin of a wheel"
3. take risky action in the hope of a desired result
   :"the British could only gamble that something would turn up"synonyms: take a chance · take a risk · stick one's neck out · go out on a limb

You said it's a slot machine with a difference.I said the difference is important.The above copy/paste does not refute my claim.

Yes it does. It is most certainly gambling by the third meaning. But go ahead, you buy them while everyone else doesn't and see how long it keeps the game afloat.

[Witch of Doom.5739]

@Wolfheart.7483 said:

@Andryej.4609 said:Oh, and by the way - I was under the impression, that when I go to the shelter to adopt an animal I get to choose which one exactly I want to adopt? It's not like: 'Hi, I wanted some cute little kitten for my little sister...', 'Well, sir, you're in luck. Here, have Brutus, the traumatized guard dog.' Yeaaaaaaaah, right...

If you insist on calling it "adoption", then at least make it look like one.

EDIT: Plus, you could always make it work like miniature claim tickets, that one "slip" unlocks you one basic skin of your choice, and two or three allows to pick one of the "shiny" ones.

Can we please stop using real living things that need a real home as the equivalent to this? It's absurd. There are so many more factors that go into adopting an animal than getting a mount skin in a video game.

Then perhaps that should start with ANet themselves, who went the marketing-puffery route by advertising the new mount skins license as "The Reforged Warhound and friends are looking for homes! Adopt a new best friend from the Black Lion Stables!"

[Iason Evan.3806]

To even have implemented this in the first place was tone deaf at best, and shows blatant disregard, contempt and greed at worst. The last month in all of gaming has been the community at large saying they abhor this exact type of thing.

[Wolfheart.7483]

.> @Galactic.6453 said:

@AnodicShadow.3647 said:There have been so many people who are trying to paint Anet in the worst possible light over this. There have been players in Map chat telling others to not team up with people who are buying the mount skins because to them, apparently people who buy them don't deserve respect. There are people who are actively out there trying to encourage others to not play/support GW2 anymore because of this decision. If that's not unnecessary hatred and anger, I don't know what is. This isn't something that warrants a cease of support for Anet for all of time. The fact that they're asking for feedback shows that they see that people aren't liking the decision and they can adjust it accordingly. I doubt that they sat there in a meeting and said "OK, let's worm more money out of people by exploiting and preying upon their unhealthy habits." like I have seen many people in an out of game say that was Anet's train of thought on this release That just makes Anet seem like an evil company that doesn't care about the people that play the game. Yeah, the whole concept of loot boxes might have a bad rep/history as of late, but again, Anet is not trying to become a Gacha game where you get tons upon tons of trash loot before getting that one ultra rare unit that's actually viable to use to progress the game. Someone could've thought getting two random mount skins for 10$ sounded like a genuinely fun and worthwhile idea. You never know. Everyone makes mistakes sometimes, people just need the space/time to fix them instead of being constantly harped on about it. They know that the majority does not agree with this adoption situation at this point already so here on Day 3, it's probably time to let the hate die down a bit because the stress probably isn't going to help. Associating the company as a whole with negative words/treating them as something that shouldn't be supported isn't fair to the people that work on the game who are genuinely passionate about the content that they release in it. You don't have to buy the mount skins if you don't agree with them, but "donating" 10$ at least once a year even just to have 800 gems to sit on won't hurt anyone and collectively, could provide more funding for content to be developed. Even then, it's still up to the player if they want to even do that. Once again, there's no need to hate Anet for this so much. Things will get better, have faith. :)

Goodwill is something you earn, not something you deserve from the get go. If everyone was like you they'd just get stepped on at every corner and nothing would change because "surely it's a mistake they will change next time :)". If they change it, then they will have earned goodwill. Until then, having faith is useless. And it's not like this is just the doing of one person who made a honest mistake. This stuff goes through multiple people and multiple companies and its effects are thoroughly researched and profits are estimated. And there's no way they didn't know about all the hubbub in the industry about lootboxes right now.

They have earned it.

You are dismissing anything good they have done in the past. So from the point where they made this mistake, you just dismissed any good will they already had and reset it to zero so that they have to earn it again. Naturally, how much good will they have earned in the past varies from player to player but the general consensus has been that Anet/GW2 has been one of the most customer/player friendly games/companies out there. So your point has no validity. You are trying to use the "good will" argument by inverting it and implying they are only allowed to earn good will after making a mistake and everything they have done prior is irrelevant.

[Riatha Hawke.2903]

I was excited about the new mount skins until I saw how they were being sold. Only available through the gems store and then locked behind RNG? No thank you.

[killermanjaro.5670]

I'd kind of ignored this whole mount skin issue as I wasn't really interested in getting any. But I've just discovered there is actually one out of the batch that I would want and use. So I'm just adding to the complaints that I think this is a pretty terrible way of providing mount skins. Had I been able to just buy the mount skin of my choice, then I would be buying some gems right now to do so, but as it stands there's no way in hell I'm going to be buying any of the licence things, as I'm not going to go through the possibility of spending a tonne of gems to get a load of skins that would effectively be expensive, useless, trash to me, before eventually getting the only one that I actually want. (on potentially the 30th try?)

I'm often keen to defend the gem store and point out that golds obtainable at a reasonable rate to convert for most items on there, but in this case it could mean changing 3000-3500ish gold (depending on if you try one at a time to get what you want, or just bite the bullet and buy all) just to try for one skin. With the others just being expensive junk that you have no way of getting money back on should you have no interest in them. (or the alternative of however much real money) That's just insanity! I can understand BLC, as (far as I'm aware) all weapon skins are tradable on the TP, so you can at least get some gold back for unwanted ones to put towards trying again. (or just buy the one you want directly off the TP). But as these are all account bound, it really screws people over should they only have interest in one! (or even just a few). It's basically gamble or go without, there needs to be another option!

Could we not have the option of buying our chosen mount skin directly, even if it's say 100 gems more than the current licences? That way people could still gamble at the lower price with random skins if they wanted, but people would have the option of paying a little more to just directly get the one they want. Or could you not add an item for 100ish gems or so, that would allow people to exchange an unwanted skin for the desired one? (that way people who have already brought some of them would have the choice to change some too)

In the meantime, a question for Anet, if there is just one skin someone wants out of the batch, then would it be possible for customer support to change the skin to the desired one? (even if for a small fee). Or is it really going to be a case where players wanting one skin will just never have the option unless we play the gambling game?

[Rashagar.8349]

@GreyWolf.8670 said:

@Rashagar.8349 said:

@GreyWolf.8670 said:

@Rashagar.8349 said:

@GreyWolf.8670 said:

@neven.3785 said:This is not gambling as some people like to yell. They simply can't get exactly what they want some are pissed off at anet for sticking to their chosen business model for this game. I love that they offer skins now and am glad they didn't chose to lock away certain mounts behind an account upgrade , rather it is only about how pretty you can make our mount.

Now I would say that there have been much truer forms of gambling in this game for a long time. You have the mystic toilet, black lion chests and those oriann boxes at the start of this game. Then came ecto gambling and races. People didn't complain much about it then.

Instead they choose to try to take this out of proportion because they want a pretty and they want it now. This is a pretty childish reaction. If they matter to you, then buy them, if you feel it's a rip off, then use the free skin you get with your mastery unlock. The choice is yours and it is your responsibility to manage your finances responsibly.

For those with kids worried they will take advantage of your credit cards, then rid the accounts of your info and make sure you don't use auto fill.

When my child bought $100 worth of robox because my autofill synced to the tablet from my phone, I didn't blame roblox or Google, I blamed myself and made him pay back every cent and donated all that currency to his brother as punishment. Then I removed all that information and disabled synchronization like a responsible person should.

So yes I like this concept, I like you don't get doubles and I like that you don't have to buy them. Only change that would have been better would be for anet to break up the bundles into mount types as that full bundle price is a hard pill to swallow for the common folk. As a side note I bought myself one and gifted one to my wife, this will likely take place of the odd black lion key purchases we make every month or two to support anet until we get all the mounts we want

How is it NOT gambling? It's a slot machine just like the BLCs. The

only

difference is that you will eventually get all of the skins if you keep buying.

Which is a fairly big difference. I don't know of any slot machine that will eventually give me all of the money if I keep playing.

Nope, that's not what that means.

gam·ble[ˈɡambəl]VERBgambling (present participle)

1. play games of chance for money; bet:"she was fond of gambling on cards and horses"synonyms: bet · place/lay a bet on something · stake money on something · [more]
2. bet (a sum of money) on a game of chance:"he was gambling every penny he had on the spin of a wheel"
3. take risky action in the hope of a desired result
   :"the British could only gamble that something would turn up"synonyms: take a chance · take a risk · stick one's neck out · go out on a limb

You said it's a slot machine with a difference.I said the difference is important.The above copy/paste does not refute my claim.

Yes it does. It is most certainly gambling by the third meaning. But go ahead, you buy them while everyone else doesn't and see how long it keeps the game afloat.

Well now I'm forced to believe that you're being wilfully intransigent in the hopes of some kind of personal gain.

[PopeUrban.2578]

@neven.3785 said:This is not gambling as some people like to yell.

For the sake of argument, lets say we don't call this or the BLCs "gambling"

Without using the terms gambling, I'll describe what these are.

These are purchases mathematically designed to disappoint the buyer and use that negative experience to encourage them to spend more money.

These are purchases designed to randomly inflate the cost of a desired product beyond that which the user would pay for it were it offered to them for direct sale for the majority of buyers.

These are purchases designed to monetize players unable or unwilling to participate in the gem market directly by turning them in to an officially sanctioned gold farming service for wealthier players that may have otherwise stopped buying gems after acquiring what they personally desire from the gem store.

These are purchases designed to add and directly profit from frustration and tedium in a product with the stated goal of providing entertainment to its customers.

These are systems similar to loot rewards for playing the game, that actively draw resources away from adding to the loot pool of the game, and that actively reward paying more to play the game less.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

I feel like a lot of people confuse "rewarding" with "I got something worth a lot of money on the TP" (which, by definition requires the item to be rare, in high demand, or usually both).

[Wolfheart.7483]

@Witch of Doom.5739 said:

@Wolfheart.7483 said:

@Andryej.4609 said:Oh, and by the way - I was under the impression, that when I go to the shelter to adopt an animal I get to choose which one exactly I want to adopt? It's not like: 'Hi, I wanted some cute little kitten for my little sister...', 'Well, sir, you're in luck. Here, have Brutus, the traumatized guard dog.' Yeaaaaaaaah, right...

If you insist on calling it "adoption", then at least make it look like one.

EDIT: Plus, you could always make it work like miniature claim tickets, that one "slip" unlocks you one basic skin of your choice, and two or three allows to pick one of the "shiny" ones.

Can we please stop using real living things that need a real home as the equivalent to this? It's absurd. There are so many more factors that go into adopting an animal than getting a mount skin in a video game.

Then perhaps that should start with

ANet themselves

, who went the marketing-puffery route by advertising the new mount skins license as "The Reforged Warhound and friends are looking for homes! Adopt a new best friend from the Black Lion Stables!"

That is absurd.

[Witch of Doom.5739]

@GreyWolf.8670 said:

Your very words; this is gambling. Spending 400 gems is risky in that I would hope for a desired result, and it is risky in that I would most likely end up with a skin I don't want and cannot gift or sell.

[beltaguise.3451]

You know I don't mind an RNG loot box, and I like a lot of the skins. The price even seems reasonable. I don't mind the gamble sometimes when I'm bored and just want to throw some money down and see if I get something shiny. My problem is when it comes at a cost to actual in-game rewards.Why weren't some of these added as in game event drops? It'd make a ton of sense to have them drop from races or have some of the fancier ones as achievement rewards. Maybe for getting first, second, winning a race on a certain mount etc. That would give me actual reason to PLAY THE GAME instead of just logging in to buy something, then logging off. If you did that I wouldn't even mind keeping the loot box in the gem store.

[Darktooth.1078]

@Galactic.6453 said:Goodwill is something you earn, not something you deserve from the get go. If everyone was like you they'd just get stepped on at every corner and nothing would change because "surely it's a mistake they will change next time :)". If they change it, then they will have earned goodwill. Until then, having faith is useless. And it's not like this is just the doing of one person who made a honest mistake. This stuff goes through multiple people and multiple companies and its effects are thoroughly researched and profits are estimated. And there's no way they didn't know about all the hubbub in the industry about lootboxes right now.

Like what Wolfheart said, Anet has already done so much good and you've just completely ignored it. Plus, are you really ignoring the fact that people are -separating- those who buy the mounts? To me that is completely destroying what was in my opinion one of the best online-gaming communities out there, but that is something I cant agree with. And the fact that they're actually asking for feedback shows that they are not 'money grubbing' like some people suddenly thought up, they want to listen and truly see if this was a bad idea on their part.

[Wolfheart.7483]

@Witch of Doom.5739 said:

@GreyWolf.8670 said:

Your very words; this is gambling. Spending 400 gems is risky in that I would hope for a desired result, and it is risky in that I would most likely end up with a skin I don't want and cannot gift or sell.

Which will be different for every player. It is a gamble if you won't be happy with any skin possibly being the outcome. If you will be happy with any of the skins, then it isn't a gamble. It is not 100% black and white gambling.

[Irrwahn.7269]

I wish I could return those mount skins... Q___Q They make me sad, everytime I see them. I feel like I've paid too much for it.Most of them look all the same, but with small varieties in patterns - that's noth worth it at all. Please sell them cheaper or let us select the mounts we want for that horrendous amount of real money!

[Rashagar.8349]

@Witch of Doom.5739 said:

@GreyWolf.8670 said:

Your very words; this is gambling. Spending 400 gems is risky in that I would hope for a desired result, and it is risky in that I would most likely end up with a skin I don't want and cannot gift or sell.

Haha! You've made the same mistake I was making for ages there thinking GreyWolf and WolfHeart are the same person.

It made the conversation between the two of them particularly confusing to follow.

Edit Also, using that definition of gambling to define the things that gambling addiction etc. refers to and equate it to slot machines (not something I'm accusing you of doing but GreyWolf and others were trying to make that point) isn't accurate, because that definition is broad enough to fit almost every activity imaginable inside it. Driving to work, for example, is a gamble ie. a risky action in the hope of a desired result. But it's not equivalent to "predatory" loot boxes or slot machines, just as these randomised mount skins aren't equivalent to predatory loot boxes and slot machines.*Note: since I can't follow your previous comment thread this reply isn't intended to refute whatever you were previously saying in some unquoted comment somewhere, it's just a general answer to the people who have been trying to swing this argument of late.

[BunjiKugashira.9754]

@AnodicShadow.3647 said:I doubt that they sat there in a meeting and said "OK, let's worm more money out of people by exploiting and preying upon their unhealthy habits." like I have seen many people in an out of game say that was Anet's train of thought on this release That just makes Anet seem like an evil company that doesn't care about the people that play the game.

Only that this is exactly what happened. Usually ANet places items directly for sale. So something must've happened to change this. And I doubt ANet changed the system to RNG boxes because they think those are fun. RNG boxes pop up whenever someone asks "How do we make the players spend more than they're comfortable with?" or "How do we make sure players keep spending instead of just buying what they want?".

400 gems for a 1/30 chance to get the skin with some consolidation prizes thrown in is a pretty bad deal. So how do we make the bad deal look good? By adding an even more obvious worse deal. What do you think the 2k gems skin is there for? For you to buy? Think again! It's there to make the 400 gems seem like a cheap alternative. It's there to set a point of reference, to create the illusion that each RNG ticket is only 1/5 the price of a skin. It's far from a coincidence that these two items appeared in the gem shop at the same time.

[Witch of Doom.5739]

@Wolfheart.7483 said:

@Witch of Doom.5739 said:

@GreyWolf.8670 said:

Your very words; this is gambling. Spending 400 gems is risky in that I would hope for a desired result, and it is risky in that I would most likely end up with a skin I don't want and cannot gift or sell.

Which will be different for every player. It is a gamble if you won't be happy with any skin possibly being the outcome. If you will be happy with any of the skins, then it isn't a gamble. It is not 100% black and white gambling.

And I'm sure there are many people who sit in casinos, hour after hour, pulling that handle, saying, "I'm not gambling; I'm socializing with my best friend Mr. Slot Machine." Rationalization at its finest. Whatever. Not arguing over whether or not RNG in games is gambling, as I clearly think it is but you do not.

[deatine.2498]

I'm not that much into the mount skins so I'm not greatly affected on a personal level.
But I think the system looks not so great. I don't feel very much connected to a game whose owners make expensive and random loot boxes for the most popular recent stuff. I mean, the thought that went into that is so obvious, and it's so blatant and bold, that just feels kinda bad. Makes me think this thread was also just created to analyse whether the level of "resistance" is low enough.
Leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Don't know how to describe it, English is not my native language.

Imagine this kind of business tactics for anything else than games (where we almost don't expect anything else anymore). It would look kind of hilarious.

[Stormcrow.7513]

I spend over 100 cdn on gambling for a skin. Lesson learned, never again. Looking for a new game as I am sure others are as well. No you cannot have my stuff :)