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Official Mount Adoption Feedback Thread [merged]


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@Kimmy.9146 said:I'd like to remind Arenanet and NCsoft that GW2 has a reputation as a customer-friendly game that it is squandering for short-term gains. Many people play this game because they feel that they aren't being milked, and this new course will drive customers away. Most of my friends have decided to stop buying gems until Arenanet reverses course.

Don't squander this community's goodwill.

I am one of them. Not a cent until this is fixed. The only reason I haven't quit outright is my guild.

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@Cyto.9401 said:fun fact: to have a 50% chance of getting the 1 skin for every of the 5 mounts you want, you would have to spend gems on 2 10-license packs and 7 1-license packs. this totals 9600 gems, or exactly the price of the 30 pack.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15AnFt7VYRkmeX8SbvQ-rKg7m1a0d7cVrDX_8MTZlhIA/edit?usp=sharing

Do you? It is assuming that every mount from lootbox has a 3.33% chance to be rolled. But are the chances of getting mount skins equal? We can never know with the lootboxes. The chances of getting skins for undesirable mounts (bunny, skimmer) can be higher than 1/30. The chances of flashy (and generally more wanted) skins like fire griffon can be lower than 1/30. After all, we already have rarity tiers in BLC's. Why not make that shiny griffon a 1% chance, and that ugly bunny 5% just to squeeze a little bit more of cash? The house always wins, you know.

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Someone has taken the time to put together a pretty comprehensive and well balanced multiple choice survey about the mount skin RNG factor and pricing. There are options for and against the acquisition system and associated pricing - the link was posted on the Mount Skins Serious Poll Thread originally. As of a few minutes ago nearly 500 have answered and the results are pretty interesting. It only takes about 2 minutes to answer so please take a look and add your voice. https://survey.zohopublic.com/zs/xHB0fQ

Me personally? I'm not upset about the 'adoption system' as such...but rather a little disappointed because there is really only 1 skin at the moment I'd really, REALLY like for my raptor - the disappointment is that I'd have to gamble to get it and my RNG luck in this game seriously sucks. I won't be gambling for it just because I don't want to be disappointed and then have buyers remorse over and over and over again. That just sucks the fun out of the game so I'd rather leave it out if you know what I mean.

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@Ider.1276 said:

@Cyto.9401 said:fun fact: to have a 50% chance of getting the 1 skin for every of the 5 mounts you want, you would have to spend gems on 2 10-license packs and 7 1-license packs. this totals 9600 gems, or exactly the price of the 30 pack.

Do you? It is assuming that every mount from lootbox has a 3.33% chance to be rolled. But are the chances of getting mount skins equal? We can never know with the lootboxes. The chances of getting skins for undesirable mounts (bunny, skimmer) can be higher than 1/30. The chances of flashy (and generally more wanted) skins like fire griffon can be lower than 1/30. After all, we already have rarity tiers in BLC's. Why not make that shiny griffon a 1% chance, and that ugly bunny 5% just to squeeze a little bit more of cash? The house always wins, you know.

it is true, i did assume each skin was as likely to pop out of the license as any other skin. regardless though, if there are indeed rarities in between mount skins, and we assume they did the rational thing and on average more people would desire these skins, the numbers are even more outrageous!

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i updated the mount math spreadsheet to include a introduction where i explain what exactly is going on, and i also added extra pages that calculate the odds if you want:

5 skins out of 304 skins out of 303 skins out of 302 skins out of 301 skin out of 30

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15AnFt7VYRkmeX8SbvQ-rKg7m1a0d7cVrDX_8MTZlhIA/edit?usp=sharing

turns out, if you just want 1 skin, you will spend 5400 gems to get "ok" odds (read 50/50 chances) of getting that one skin.

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@Cyto.9401 said:i updated the mount math spreadsheet to include a introduction where i explain what exactly is going on, and i also added extra pages that calculate the odds if you want:

5 skins out of 304 skins out of 303 skins out of 302 skins out of 301 skin out of 30

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15AnFt7VYRkmeX8SbvQ-rKg7m1a0d7cVrDX_8MTZlhIA/edit?usp=sharing

turns out, if you just want 1 skin, you will spend 5400 gems to get "ok" odds (read 50/50 chances) of getting that one skin.

Funny enough, there's only 1 skin I want.Could get that ugly mecha ram for cheaper if that's the odds/chances.

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@"Gaile Gray.6029" said:There are a lot of conversations about the mount adoption option that was released today. Many of the comments in the individual threads repeat ones made by the same person in another thread. We very much want to hear your feedback, but have found that a single feedback thread offers the best opportunity for you to share your thoughts and for us to review it in the context of a wider set of feedback.

So here's a thread into which you're invited to post your thoughts on the subject of the Black Lion Stables Mount Skins.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

No money for random mounts textures.

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I haven't read through a lot of the feedback or suggestions made in this thread yet, but just to put out my thought on the theme:

I think the Mount Adoption Sytem is a good idea. The only problem is the implementation. Yeah, a price of 400 gems per mount skin is fine. It's not too expensive and not too cheap. The only problem is the complete RNG System behind it. I also bought several Mount Adoption Licenses and after 12 or so I got all griffon skins and some simple ones of the other ones. I don't say anything against what I got, but other people also only got skimmer or springer skins and they don't like that and I really understand why.

Depending on the range of skins added with this, I would be fine, if those are added every quarter of the year every 4 months or half a year(in addition to "special" themed skins). But for the future I think an acceptable System for this would be the following:

Those skins get added in packs of 30, so 6 skins per mount. But 1 Skin per Mount can be unlocked by a collection, an achievement or through a certain other currency(Living World Season 4 maps maybe?) . This Skin will mostly be a different pattern and 2-4 dye slots, or has minor changes. At the same time the other 25 Mounts can be bought seperated by the Mount. So you get a Raptor Adoption License, Springer Adoption license and so on. Those will also be RNG, but it's easier to know what you will get. The anti-duplicate system that's already added should be kept. Maybe also add a package of 5 Licenses(1 for each mount) that has a 15-20% discount. But this way, I think it's better for most players.

I know not everything about this seems good or possible, but that's just my opinion :P

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just brainfood for the people who think the system is okay, because there is gold to gem conversation:

what the whole system did and ever does, is that it veils what really happens. not everyone in this game is a reasonable adult, keep that in mind.there are kids arround, who probably also spend money on it, also for gold to gem conversation. or to gamble it on lootboxes...but here i rather have the black lion chests in mind then the mount skins, which are also a part of the gambeling.so, with that in mind, i have a honest question, probably even to the anet devs or whoever manages this side of the game:

would you convert your gold to gems, if you know some child used up their pocket money to get some ingame gold with exactly those gems?or saying it in a more direct way: would you sell your gold to a child in return of money? (as a person, you do that already in terms of the gw2 business)

if there was a market, would you buy a black lion weapon skin directly from a child which gambled away the pocket money with black lion chests (if the child even got enough scrapts that is)?

because that is what the system currently does: veiling everything up. you don't know who paid for it. you don't know if it was a child, someone who has a gamble addiction, or maybe it was a reasonable adult who knows what he is doing.

honestly, it is a big shame how arena net is going more and more the predator way in the game industry and to be honest, i am not sure if this negative aspect is good for them...they live off "mount to mount" advertisement and stuff like this makes me not telling anyone of gw2.

also saying it is just "skins" doesn't do any good. this is a big part of the endgame in any mmo. fashion was always present. its a social aspect...if you can't sell mechanics because it takes long to develop them, you sell skins in the meanwhile. and all the guys going on about how this is no mechanic and these are just "skins" & "optimal" are doing exactly what the devs want.

how many bl weapon sets do we have. 43 if i can count right. how many do we have which are available ingame? which are not level up weapons and other trash skins?when was the last time some super cool armor came out ig which was not a black lions skin? raid armor? lol, i can't even dye it right.

i always loved to play guildwars and i was with you since the days of gw1 and right now, i don't feel good anymore. i always had critic for the game, like where are the ig rng drops in dungeons or stuff like this. well, they did the right thing at least in raids in the end.but i always loved to log in, even if it was just a bit for running arround, not doing anything serious. or doing serious stuff like speedrunning dungeons, high level fractals and later raids....but right now, it simply doesn't feel good anymore.

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@wolfyrik.2017 said:

@MailMail.6534 said:I urge everyone to watch WP’s video on the issue. Logic, integrity and rationality in the midst of this embarrassingly dramatic time is needed. Shame on the gw2 community for pushing a nasty narrative against anet devs, fellow players etc.

Shame on you for your hasty generalisation of everybody who's against the Gambling mount skins as "pushing a nasty narative".

That's an act of propaganda.

Shame on you.

Overblown false outrage because you think anything less than that wouldn't get noticed and you desperately want to get your own way is also an act of propaganda.

Getting youtubers with very little personal ties to the game but a large audience to weigh in on something they know very little about is also an act of propaganda.

Bullying people in-game who disagree with your view point is also an act of propaganda.

All these things are way more shameful than the comment you quoted.

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@Draco.5014 said:

(On a side note: my last line took things to a very dark place I realised. O_o After living the past couple of years fighting to have your voice heard over some big issues and being told you're just fussing or a minority so who cares, speaking about what I think about mount skin RNG and black lion chests feels so small... :'( I think I need a hug... )

hugs

Thanks ^_^ I needed that.

@therapite.3645 said:I'm going to chime in here with:

I spent a little real money on something that made me happy for about an hour. I didn't do the math, I just wanted a chance at something shiny and I actually got one. The RNG Gods hate me and I actually got the thing that I wanted and I was running around on it and got told by multiple people what an awful person I was, how stupid I looked, how I was feeding the beast or whatever, and how I should be ashamed of myself.

People messaging you like that is horrid. You should be ashamed of yourself??? Excuse me? Like someone else mentioned, please just report these people and block them. While I'm not in favour of the RNG aspect and won't be buying the mounts (unless there is some fat special and I'm feeling lucky - which I never really feel with RNG. Hahaha.), me not having the mounts doesn't then give me a license to be a git to others who do want them. Shame, my SO and I got so upset and worked up hearing this story that I had to respond to it.

Just know that they're probably angry and jealous, so the fault is all with them for being so nasty at you instead of coming here and telling Anet directly.

Oh, and congrats on getting the one you want first time. ^_^

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You know a video game company fudged up when Jim Sterling does a video on it, more so about a game he doesn't really care about.

Congrats Anet you are now in the same category with other video game companies with predatory behavior towards their customers who are more than happy to exploit their players for as much money as they can get out of them, such as making something like mount skins then locking them away in a loot box where players have a 1 in 30 chance of getting the skin or skins they actual want. Oh and if we want to guarantee to get the skin(s) we want we have to pay over $100. When you could have sold each separate and made a crap ton of money while while keeping your customer friendly reputation intact.

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@Oglaf.1074 said:Has Anet done anything other than merge the threads like this? Any response in this thread? Their social media? Anything?

Or are they just bunkering down and praying that this will blow over?

Companies need time to process such massive feedback and prepare the response. Still, I hope for official statement before weekend.

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There are several issues that came up with the release of the Mount Stables. The following lines are a collection of comments and suggestions I have heard from friends, guild members or people in map chats:

  1. They were released really very soon after the first mount skin release, not even a whole month passed before the Spooky mount skins were released. It's understandable that people really wanted to see mount skins, but flooding them with 30 of them at once definitely doesn't help. I bet there are way too many disappointed players who wish they hadn't spent those 20 dollars/euros to buy the spooky skins, myself included. Can we even ask for a refund, I wonder?
  2. The skins came in the form of RNG model, ultimately forcing a player to purchase up to 30 licenses if they are unlucky enough to not get that one particular skin they want for that specific mount. It's always hated by any gaming community, to involve real-money with gambling. If it was anything with in-game currencies, there wouldn't be any complaints at all. The licenses should allow the choice of a specified skin. Or at least allow the choice of a specified mount, then give a random skin for it. Let's be honest, no one really uses the Skimmer unless required (damaging field on the ground, hover over water, etc.); other mounts are more widely used.
  3. The skins come at a heavily expensive price, even for one individual skin. 5 dollars/euros for one mount skin is really a lot. I know players in my guild who received help from other guild members to even purchase the PoF expansion. The gems price has been too expensive since launch, and that price would only be justified if there were ways to earn gems in-game, apart from the 5K AP milestone chests. I was so sad to see people wanting to give up on GW2 and seek entertainment elsewhere. Such "marketing" moves repel the community.
  4. There are no other methods of acquiring glider and mount skins in-game, through achievements, collections, scavenger hunts, or simply purchasing them with in-game currencies. I am not suggesting that the same skins available in the gem store should also be obtainable in-game. But some other ones could be. And some gem store ones could also be. There are dozens of armor and weapon skins that be unlocked in the wardrobe just by playing the game. Why not have some skins for gliders, mounts, outfits to unlock just by playing the game? Some people will be pleased with just having those, some will want to also unlock skins from the gem store, some will not bother unlocking anything because skins is not their thing. With this skin pack release you only targeted players who "can afford" to purchase them. The company sure needs to make money, but this crossed the line by far. A balance needs to be brought to both sides.
  5. Apart from the RNG model in this release, you also added the 30-license pack for a cheaper price, and made it available for only 7 days. I am sorry but... you really cannot hide your greed for money this way. It's evident that the path you've taken with the gem store does not leave a lot of players pleased. In the past you used to release new items that were purchasable both invididually but as well as a bundle, for a cheaper price. Lately we see new additions coming only as a bundle, starting from certain outfits being exclusive to a 2000 gems bundle, then glider+backpack combo bundles-only, leading up to the Spooky mount skins being only a bundle and not sold separately. Selling items individually guarantees more freedom to choose and ultimately more players buying exactly what they want/need, creating a bigger money profit.
  6. Every time you released something new in the gem store, you always let players have a "taste" of it, by allowing a free purchase per account, for 0 gems. Why did we not get this now? And mind you, provided the licenses were divided on a per-mount basis, we should be allowed to get a free license for a random skin per mount. Now THAT would keep almost everyone pleased, and motivate them to buy more licenses if they didn't get the skin they wanted. Sometimes it's worth sacrificing a portion of the intended profit to keep the customers satisfied. Give them a bite to taste, and eventually they'll buy a whole slice of the cake, if not the whole cake itself.
  7. Worth mentioning that you released new mount skins when a critical bug regarding the camera when mounted has not been fixed in over 3 weeks, has been going on even since the Halloween event was launched. Do you consider this acceptable? I, we.. do not.
  8. Last but not least, among this chaos of 30 new RNG-based mount skins, you also released a Jackal skin worth... 2000 gems. No, just no. No matter how much work has been put on it, just no. I watched a video presentation of this Reforged Warhound skin, really still no. No skin is worth 25 dollars/euros. You do realise that's almost the same price as the expansion itself cost? Halve its price, if not more than that, and refund the difference to those who were naive enough (sorry guys, but you are) to already purchase it.

I think you've reached a point where you need to humbly apologise to the community and compensate the players who have been supporting you all these years. Please, do not allow greed to destroy the game we loved -and still love, for now- so much.

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After reading through some replies and thinking on it a while, I have decided that all I really want is the opportunity to choose what skins I get. Even if it costs a little more. I'd be happy with 500-700 gems per skin if I meant I got exactly what I wanted.Like hey, RNG can be fun but not like this. If the RNG adoption had been a drop or collection reward (like for the treat collections) the fact that it was RNG aspect wouldn't matter to me because it cost me nothing but fun and time.But uh, yeah. That's my two cents. Hope this gets sorted out somehow.

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@Kheldorn.5123 said:

@Oglaf.1074 said:Has Anet done anything other than merge the threads like this? Any response in this thread? Their social media? Anything?

Or are they just bunkering down and praying that this will blow over?

Companies need time to process such massive feedback and prepare the response. Still, I hope for official statement before weekend.

No they don't. For example, if some deeply offensive image was on a skin by mistake and there was an uproar about it they would act far more hastily and issue an apology almost instantly.The price of gems spiked immediately when they released the mount skins, it has not yet gone back to the level it was before. This may well be a factor in when and if they choose to make a statement on the current situation.

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Random luck, no way. I've playing GW2 since beginning and never get a precurser, so my Account is definitely no luck Account. And now i should gamble if i want the stardust jackal? ??? Best joke ever.I've spent about 130€ for diamonds since i play GW2. As long as the mounts are only random packages, anet won't see any of my €.

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@dagrdagaz.4913 said:And any future mount skin will simply be added to the Licence.

This is probably my largest concern. Right now, it's 30 skins. But I could see that any 'basic' skin gets added to this pool along with the occasional 'shiny' skin. Any stand-alone skin(s) would be like the Warforged and be much higher in price.

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