A Message About the Mount Adoption License
Mike O Brien.4613
ArenaNet › ArenaNet
Hi,
We made a commitment to you in March 2012 that we’d fund GW2 live development through non-pay-to-win microtransactions. We try different ideas, but we always hold true to that commitment. We’ve been collecting and discussing your feedback on the Mount Adoption License, and today I’d like to acknowledge and respond to the concerns you’ve raised, and to share our perspective with you.
You have valid concerns about random boxes. We hoped that the design of the Mount Adoption License would be reassuring. In this case, we made some missteps:
- At a time when there’s a lot of debate about random boxes in gaming, we should have anticipated that a new system with a random element would cause alarm.
- We released mount skins with three different purchase models, but with the majority of skins released so far through the Adoption License. It’s easy to perceive this as intentionally channeling you toward randomization.
- The Adoption License is a large set at 30 skins. We stand by the work our artists put into each skin, but it’s understandable to see this as pushing down the odds of acquiring any one skin, and to worry that we might add more skins to lower the chances further.
Here are some of the benefits we had in mind when designing the Mount Adoption License:
- You get a brand-new, unique mount skin every time, for a substantial discount versus an individual purchase price.
- It uses a progressive mechanic. Every license gives you a new skin to use and increases the odds of acquiring any remaining skins.
- You’ve requested variety, and this is a way to support variety. Individual sale is a mechanic that works with a few, flashy skins. Using a grab bag mechanic gives us leeway to create skins to suit a wide range of player tastes while offering a lower price per skin.
Microtransactions can be polarizing, and we’ve received both positive and negative feedback on the license. We won’t change the existing license in a way that would invalidate the investment players have made, but I want to confirm to you that our next planned mount skin releases will focus on individual sales like the Reforged Warhound and bundles like the Spooky Mounts Pack. We will not add any skins to the currently available Adoption License, thus not pushing down the odds of acquiring any one skin in that set.
We appreciate the thoughtful feedback many of you have provided, and that you hold us to high standards for monetization. It’s been a challenging but wonderful goal to support live development and Living World purely through optional microtransactions, and it’s your support that’s made that possible. Thank you.
~ MO
Comments
So pretty much this adoption thing not getting changed at least, but something different in the future?
That's fine, but that just mean I won't spend a dime personally on that adoption thing. Guess I'll see how it turns out on the next one.
So if we want any of the skins currently available through the mount adoption licence, but are not willing to gamble for them we should forget about them and hope there's others coming in future we'll like just as much?
Well...it's certainly not the answer I was hoping for (since I do like quite a few of these skins), but it's better than nothing. I'll keep my fingers crossed for the next batch.
Danielle Aurorel - Desolation EU. Mini Collector.
"Vengence is her art, oaths and victories taken, Soulkeeper's Vigil remains unshaken!"
Support for changing things in the future but it's a little disappointing that these 30 skins are still trapped behind the RNG.
Thank you for the statement MO. It is much appreciated.
Good luck with that plan
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I really don't know if I'm going to keep playing, or buying, when you guys are still gouging folks with this mount pack. I'll have to think about it. I'm really concerned that if I do purchase this, you'll continue to use RNG to distribute mounts, and I will have just been gullible again, and encouraged the problem.
If I take you guys at your word and buy this pack on faith that you guys will offer non-RNG mounts in the cash shop, if you guys go back to RNG, I am done.
Thank you for looking at all the posts, threads, and discussions. Thank you also, for realizing that this was a big deal, that things are out of tune, and producing a ridiculous amount of skins.
The Halloween skins were vibrant and unorthodox but they were from Halloween; Such things can be expected from Holiday events. The skins released in the pack are gaudy, rainbow filled, distracting, and feel like they upset the balance of the world's art as a whole and to an extent; should be harder to get.
Things that look awesome or fancy like achievement point gear, legendaries, cool effects that shade your character (Koda's Warmth, Gors drop, etc), among other cool things usually require high levels of time, gold, etc and you know they're epic because there was legendary effort behind them. Please keep this in mind for future releases, that things should have value.
Glad to see a response in the least here.... not happy with the whole cave this one time, we promise we wont do it again vibe I'm getting tho.... How about you offer the 30 skins and allow us to pick the ones we want from them at a set price rather then try to keep it the same and squeeze it dry? I wont buy the random packs so you can forget that nonsense all together. You have the ability, capability to fix and change this..... just do it.
So we listend to your feedback and decided you are wrong. Good news we won't add more though so that is a plus and you can now look forward to more 2k skins and 2k bundles in the future. thanks.
At least you acknowledged you didnt correctly anticipate the backlash desite realising you should have. Hopefully this situation help focus a bit more forward thinking.
A shame we cannot buy directly, but I didnt expect that to happen anyway given those who already invested would then be screwed. Hopefully the next round of direct purchases will be priced sensibly and not the same as an expac nearly for 1 skin. You pretty much got glider skins right with the communitu, so where the change came from feedback is baffling to me.
Thanks for the update though and at least you came back to us. Not every game developer makes that effort
What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .
"we're not going to fix it, but we won't make it any worse"
better than I expected at least
My advice is to wait and see what happens when the next mount/s come out. It might well be that there's skins you like just as much as the ones in the RNG boxes which can be purchased directly (either on their own or as a bundle). Then there will be no need for you to buy the RNG boxes.
Danielle Aurorel - Desolation EU. Mini Collector.
"Vengence is her art, oaths and victories taken, Soulkeeper's Vigil remains unshaken!"
I'm a bit disappointed that you guys aren't offering a way to individually and directly purchase the cheaper skins available through the Mount License items, and I would rather not see every individually-crafted mount skin end up at 2000 gems like the Reforged Warhound, but I'm glad that you're not going to be inflating the problem by adding more skins to the current list you can get from the licenses. Thank you for listening to our concerns here on the forums and elsewhere.
Thank you for the response although I find it extremely disappointing. Too much of a gamble. Also, you did not address those players who randomly drew, say, a Griffon skin, and have no Griffon nor plan to get it. I don't have a dog in this fight but have seen some upset players.
I think microtransaction in GW2 are the fairest in the market and dont have a problem with randon drops - its not pay to win and we get to play for free, but i get how it could be annoying if there is a large drop table because in reality a player will usually see a particular skin they really fancy having. What about offering multiple skin licenses with smaller drop tables (but still random and no duplicates) at a lower price so people feel like they are a bit more in control?
"Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.
Beware the meta!
I think that the license isn't as bad as people make it out to be. The difference between this and other RNG lootboxes from other MMOs is that there is a 100% chance of obtaining a unique mount skin, for a pretty cheap price, and best of all you do not need to pay IRL money, if you don't want to to obtain the skins. Other MMOs put in filler items, or bad items that nobody needs at all in lootboxes, while the mount license guarantees a unique item that is worth the Gem cost IMO. All the new skins are fully dyeable so it's a win for me.
The Reforged Warhound on the other hand is overpriced. 2k Gems in contrast to your typical 500 Gem glider? Nearly 4x the price compared to a glider.
Personally, I have no real issue with the skins being random, the problem is the size of the set. If they were broken up into smaller sets for each type of mount, so for example an adopt a raptor box that contained only raptor skins, that would be more palatable, especially if the rest of the functionality remained, so that you didn't have a chance of getting one you already had. Furthermore, possibly reduce the cost slightly for a random skin, but give an alternate cost (lets say 2x or 3x that cost) to pick a specific skin.
Oh I agree that it's not as bad as some RNG boxes, even some fairly common versions used in many different games. But that still doesn't mean it's ok. Having my lunch break interrupted repeatedly by people asking quick questions isn't as bad as having to cancel it completely because something urgent came up, but that doesn't mean I'm happy to be badgered by everyone walking into the office when I'm eating.
Danielle Aurorel - Desolation EU. Mini Collector.
"Vengence is her art, oaths and victories taken, Soulkeeper's Vigil remains unshaken!"
Well I`m still not really satisfied with this. GG
What about a "golden adoption ticket" that allows a person to select the specific skin they are looking for?
I haven't unlocked the griffon yet so I'm also wondering if the adoption works on mount skins that aren't available to you yet? If you don't have the jackal will you still receive jackal skins? or reroll for one of the other three you have available to you?
"That's what" -- She
I would second this notion.
Also to those interpreting "like the Reforged Warhound" as meaning 2000 gem individual skins, I seriously doubt every individual skin will be that much. I am sure the intention is to release a multitude of skin types/packs for varying price ranges.
thank you, this is a step back to the right direction. i have no problem with microtransactions. if something tickles my fancy i will buy it. but i wont gamble real money for the chance to get something with the larger chance i will get something i dont want.
I hope this is a we-tried-one-time-and-i-didnt-work-never-again. I bought the most expensive version of the Expansion to help Anet and investing in the future of the game but not to fund implementing rng-methods. I will hand have to refuse to invest in this system what so ever and i hope enough will follow suit. I will have to consider spending so much money on the next expansion to come. This is not the Anet i like spending Gems on.
You can get any skin, regardless of which mounts you have unlocked. There's been quite a few posts from people who are unhappy because they got a griffon skin and aren't planning to ever get the griffon.
Danielle Aurorel - Desolation EU. Mini Collector.
"Vengence is her art, oaths and victories taken, Soulkeeper's Vigil remains unshaken!"
This just means that my $ remains in my wallet until the RNG games stop. Thanks for the response!
Thanks for the statement, Mo. I'm glad to hear that you guys won't be adding any more mount skins to the adoption licenses, and I'll be happy to support anet by purchasing the next set of non-RNG mount skins. We all criticize certain design decisions sometimes, but it's because the players love the game and want it to be the best that it can possibly be. Thank you for listening to our feedback.
Yes, you can get skins for mounts you don't have including the Griffon.
Just don't do another 2k gems skin okay for that is not okay when there is not even a glider that's 1k
I'm glad you guys aren't caving into the backlash. This is almost the same thing as black lion scraps and skins, and it doesn't seem like most people have a major issue with them. I love that we don't have to pay monthly fees (even though i've probably spent my monthly fee twice over with no regrets) so i fully support the business model thus far. thanks for keeping in touch with us
this is the only thing i'd say is a problem. if those players could get a refund or the skins for mounts you don't have are impossible to get, that would be a lot better for those people.
Not gonna lie, I didn’t care for the whole randomness at first. I wanted the cosmic skin on any mount. I got the lightning raptor one with my first box, and I absolutely love it. I have yet to see anyone else with the same mount. Now I see them similar to Pokémon cards. Someday, I’ll get that cosmic “charizard”
Supporting development through microtransactions is fine. But guys, please remember that 2000 gems is not 'micro' anything, okay? If it translates to more than five dollars in Actual Cash Moneys, it is not 'micro'.
Thanks, I'm ok with that. Loved the Spooky bundle because I knew what I paid for. But I don't waste money on random stuff I might not like.
Thanks for the response and for your honesty. It's been a good five years but this is where we part ways. I wish you the best of luck.
death to lootboxes
think of it this way: they wont re-release these rng skins as single purchases or copy these old skins next time as that will annoy the previous buyers. so the next skins will have to be better looking than the old skins and they will be single purchases.
Thank you for the response. I will be looking for the next, non-RNG batch, or a single skin. (But FYI, 2000 gems is too much for one skin.)
Now I know that this isn't the game to play if I want good rewards by playing the content. Thanks!
The black lion skins are different for 2 reasons:
1) You don't get a skin as a drop (you used to, in the 1st few months of the game but they changed that because of the negative backlash from players) - you get a ticket, or ticket scraps, which you can use to buy a weapon of your choice.
2) The skins are tradable, so you don't have to gamble at all if you don't want to - you can simply buy the weapon you want with gold.
Danielle Aurorel - Desolation EU. Mini Collector.
"Vengence is her art, oaths and victories taken, Soulkeeper's Vigil remains unshaken!"
We can purchase most black lion weapon skins on the trading post, while we can't do so with mounts, is one main reason for the backlash.
I really liked 3-4 skins individually, but I really don't want to take a chance for something I don't want/need. Future drops maybe. At least the team has acknowledged the concern the community has, which I appreciate.
Thanks for the response but it doesn't really address one of the concerns people had which was that they were upset that no mount skins can be acquired in-game. It would go a long way to earning back the trust of your consumers if you did that, or at least made some way to add dye channels to the base mounts.
could the mounts work on a ticket system like Black Lion Claim tickets? like each Adoption License is a one ticket, and less popular mounts cost only one, with the most popular costing three. This would be a way to allow players a choice rather than an RNG but still necessitate multiple purchases for certain mounts that are more sought after.
idk just a thought, though I can respect your unwillingness to change the current system since some players have already spend $120 through the RNG system.
Well, yeah, the idea is to make multiple smaller sets.
signature
Thank you MO, it's wonderful to see that you listened to our feedback, even when alot of people were way out of line with their comments. I sincerely hope this 'negative press' didn't hurt the game or Arenanet as a company too badly.
I hope y'all at Anet enjoy the rest of the year, and see you on Wintersday!
True but have you looked at some of the skins, especially the raptor and skimmer ones? Several of the raptor skins are unique only in that they have some very minor changes to scale patterns and maybe a few of the horns. But for the most part they don't stand out as different skins much at all. I think that was another thing that made people mad about the RNG thing. "Thanks for your 400 gems here is a raptor skin most can't tell from the generic one unless they look closely." But instead several of the mount skins in the table were more like getting a revive orb or trading post express from a BLC.
Thanks for your explanation and direction for the future. Appreciated.
Have you put any consideration in the suggestion to make the skins tradable? I still think this would fix most of the problems while still providing a solid stream of revenue for you.
Ascalon Will Prevail!
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Honestly idk why people complain about the mount skins. I did wish would could colorize the mount without skins with our own dye but let's stick to topic. First of all gems can be earned so it's ok. What is the difference in pricing for regular skins, or gliders? Nothing really actually 400 gems is a good price. Some gliders are 700 gems a piece. So idk why people are mad. How come people are mad about this but not the dyes that are 125 gems a piece? Same way. You buy it, and get a random dye. When you buy it and get a random skin.
I do like the fact that even though they are random you will never get a duplicate. So basically it's honestly like buying a Yu-Gi-Oh booster pack. Or Pokemon booster pack or magic. But the better part is no duplicates.
400 is a reasonable price for the mount adoption. So basically buy one, get a random mount skin. And you can 1 out of 30 of the right one. Later on the ratio diminishes till you get the right one you want. It's not bad. Just different.
I wish they did that for gilder's. Made a butt load of gliders. Pay the same price for each and get 1 random glider.
Well look at that.
As I expected.
Pfftt, I am laughing way too hard.
So I get my 400 gem mounts and a choice next time?
Oh, happy days you are gonna make my Christmas lit.
Thanks Anet!
I told people this would happen and y'all didn't listen. Seems like a lot people don't look too hot now.
Bahaha!
BackToCollecting
the could have put the good skins on the cashshop for 700gems and the boring ones on pof heart vendors for 4k trade certificates or something like that
(2000) I hope so. He could have said that, however, and did not.
"We won’t change the existing license in a way that would invalidate the investment players have made" - ArenaNet PR
Oh, like they did with Town Clothes? Remember when they took out an entire feature and replaced it with something that made our purchases completely worthless? They took out all the mix and match customization and dying of them and gave us clothing tonics of fixed outfits and colors to replace the items. They gave us the option of gem refunds for the investment they invalidated if we wanted that instead of the tonics. So.... why can't they do that here? I know why. It's because they want us to gamble for the ones we want, or fork over the $120 to get all of them. It's not our investment they're worried about, it's theirs.
It's hard to take this halfhearted PR jargon seriously after reading that line.