A Message About the Mount Adoption License - Page 8 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

A Message About the Mount Adoption License

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  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sartharina.3542 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @StaggerLee.6397 said:
    Is a mount skin being $5 really considered discounted?

    Considering blizzard sells their skins for 25$ id say yes.

    You forgot that 90% of WoW's skins can be obtained in-game.

    Yeah i know i have expressed my annoyance that theres no skins obtainable in game. But still this doesnt justify having the mounts be at those prices. It does justify tho that the means of purchase shouldnt be scammy.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Khisanth.2948 said:

    @Freakshow.1809 said:
    I'm content with this. I still wish they would just do away with the RNG feature of the current adoption licences and allow you to pick and choose, but at least they will not being doing this again.......hopfully

    Also I will be screenshoting the OP for the future.

    Forgive, but never forget.

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Critwrench.8432 said:
    This doesn't address any of the concerns at all.

    People want to buy the skins. They do not want to GAMBLE for the skins. Take the RNG off and raise the price of the skins IF YOU MUST, but I don't think you have to. Gliders were all 400 gems, more if it included a backpiece, I see no reason to deviate from that model.

    Furthermore, this controversy has raised ancillary concerns from "nitpicks" to "actual issues" amongst your playerbase, and you have addressed none of them.

    WHY are all default mounts 1 dye channel, when all the skins conveniently have 4?
    WHY are there no mount skins earnable as in-game rewards, in an expansion sorely lacking in medium- or long-term reasons to keep playing the maps?
    WHY do you have the resources to release thirty skins at once for the gemstore, but you can't throw one or two into a box that people like myself have paid up to eighty dollars for? I'm not saying I don't want to work for them, I'm not even saying I don't want to buy them. I'm saying that the current situation is the absolute worst for everyone involved, except perhaps your yarn-pawing kitten bottom line.

    It's greed, blatant and putrid, and your customers expect better than that from you.

    I dont believe its fair for the mounts to be on the same price as the glider since theres more work going into them.

    Many of them are just texture/fur pattern changes. That wouldn't have required much more work than the similarly retextured gliders(all the different colored hawk wings for example)

    We didnt start getting crazy glider like way down hot. Its been a month since the expac launched and the mounts themselves have alot of detail. Some ppl would prefer pattern changes and maybe some small changes to the model rather than a crazy rework.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @JaddynnStarr.5201 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @JaddynnStarr.5201 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @StaggerLee.6397 said:
    Is a mount skin being $5 really considered discounted?

    Considering blizzard sells their skins for 25$ id say yes.

    I disagree as this is not WoW... furthermore typical skins IN OUR GAME usually run the gambit of 400-800 gems which is $5-$10. Discounted... no. on the cheaper side of things yes.

    I disagree. I believe a price around 800-1000 gems is a fair price for 1 mount with 1.6k gems for a full set of mounts.

    well regardless of what you think they should be at.... they have been selling past and present at 400 gems for all mounts but the single jackal one, so no that isn't a discount, that's the normal price of them currently and on the cheaper side as gliders and regular char skins run 500-700 gems. As for future sales, I could tolerate 800 gems for a mount skin if it wasn't just a recolor... 1600 would be good for a standard 5 pack of skins.

    Buying a pack for 1600 doesnt mean that a seperate purchase sould be 1/5 or 1/4rth of that. Like with some many things that are sold sererately or in a bundle the bundle is cheaper to make it more aprealing.

  • Lyger.5429Lyger.5429 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2017

    @Mike O Brien.4613 said: We won’t change the existing license in a way that would invalidate the investment players have made, but I want to confirm to you that our next planned mount skin releases will focus on individual sales like the Reforged Warhound

    At the very least consider lowering the price of skins such as the warhound, having to buy over $20 USD worth of gems just for a standalone mount seems ridiculous. Perhaps consider a price point of 1600 gems (or even lower) for similar re-models being released in the future. Additionally, keeping the mount adoption license 30-pack around indefinitely might demonstrate an act of good will towards the costumer that feels like they must purchase the pack before time is up, else they lose out on the discount. Another act of good will would be to toss a few of the next basic skins that you release into the game, to be earned through various methods.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ohoni.6057 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @StaggerLee.6397 said:
    Is a mount skin being $5 really considered discounted?

    Considering blizzard sells their skins for 25$ id say yes.

    It bears repeating, Blizzard is Blizzard. Don't try to be Blizzard, because you ain't Blizzard.

    Its not about being blizzard its about asking mounts to cost 400gems and how i find that unreasonable. God forbid if they sold skins at that price and yes the reforged thingy is too exp.

  • Deimos.4263Deimos.4263 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2017

    I'm not really sure how I feel. As expected, you said you wouldn't change the existing set (it'd be somewhat problematic to undo), and you're going to "focus" on selling them direct for the next while individually or in theme packs. But I what I don't hear is a promise that you won't resort to the RNG tactic again. And that's troubling.

  • zeptimus.3641zeptimus.3641 Member
    edited November 11, 2017

    Thank you for the response.

    For me however not the response I was hoping for. As long as the system stays in the game the way it is I wont be spending any money in the item store.

    I will be playing. But I will stop paying.

  • @zealex.9410 said:

    @Daralii.8940 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @StaggerLee.6397 said:
    Is a mount skin being $5 really considered discounted?

    Considering blizzard sells their skins for 25$ id say yes.

    WoW has hundreds of mounts obtainable through gameplay, and the majority of store mounts have unique skeletons. The forgehound is the closest thing to any Blizzard store mount(unique model, reused skeleton), and it's... $25. Don't pretend that ANet is any less predatory than Activision, EA, or any of their subsidiaries.

    No the store mounts are legit more flashy versions of existing mounts in game.

    Heart of the Aspects, Armored Bloodwing, and Grinning Reaver are unique skeletons. The rest are unique models on an existing skeleton, frequently with some extra animations- the Fey Dragon preening itself, the Iron Skyreaver doing a roll, etc. The forgehound is exactly the same as the store mounts, and were this WoW, all the gachapon mount skins are the kind that would be obtainable ingame. The fact that they put them in the gem store, instead of adding them as endgame rewards that the game desperately lacks that aren't just gold, shows where their priorities lie.

  • Sartharina.3542Sartharina.3542 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2017

    @urieldhynne.2743 said:
    "We won’t change the existing license in a way that would invalidate the investment players have made"

    We need to understand that they are tied to a compromise with people who invested money in this system, a bad system, buy a lot of people already spended money on it and they need to protect them. Imagine if you spend money in another item that sell in certain way, and later they change it to a cheaper one because a lot of people (right or wrong) complain about it, you are going to lose trust in the company.

    What he said was: They CAN'T change it now, but they know the people don't want/like it and they are going to sell new skins in a more traditional way

    Well, if they were to actually put these in-game, it would do a hell of a lot more good than letting those who let themselves get fleeced (Note - I am sort of one of these people - I bought almost all the mount skins because I wanted them) keep their investment while screwing over absolutely everyone who bought the game (Or were even just thinking of buying the game)

    I had multiple friends interested in checking this game out, but as soon as they heard about this kitten, they backed away immediately. And it's spread all over the kitten internet..

    At this point, the game crashing and burning will be a liberation.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bopha Debs.3290 said:

    @Mike O Brien.4613 said:

    • You get a brand-new, unique mount skin every time, for a substantial discount versus an individual purchase price.

    OK, consider this...
    1) PoF expansion - new maps, 5 mounts, new story, new elite specializations, new armor and weapon skins, new foods, new stat combos and plenty of other things I cant think of right now.
    Value - 30 USD

    2) Individual jackal mount skin, purely cosmetic.
    Value - 25 USD

    Does that REALLY seem right to you?

    Its not even that. Its the fact that the "brand-new, unique mount skin" has a solid chance to not be the one i want.

  • MakubeC.3026MakubeC.3026 Member ✭✭✭

    Thank you Mike. Your words are much appreciated.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sartharina.3542 said:

    @urieldhynne.2743 said:
    "We won’t change the existing license in a way that would invalidate the investment players have made"

    We need to understand that they are tied to a compromise with people who invested money in this system, a bad system, buy a lot of people already spended money on it and they need to protect them. Imagine if you spend money in another item that sell in certain way, and later they change it to a cheaper one because a lot of people (right or wrong) complain about it, you are going to lose trust in the company.

    What he said was: They CAN'T change it now, but they know the people don't want/like it and they are going to sell new skins in a more traditional way

    Well, if they were to actually put these in-game, it would do a hell of a lot more good than letting those who let themselves get fleeced (Note - I am sort of one of these people - I bought almost all the mount skins because I wanted them) keep their investment while screwing over absolutely everyone who bought the game (Or were even just thinking of buying the game)

    I had multiple friends interested in checking this game out, but as soon as they heard about this kitten, they backed away immediately. And it's spread all over the kitten internet..

    At this point, the game crashing and burning will be a liberation.

    Yeah i agree with this but i dought the majority of ppl that bought the skins will see it like that.

  • Ohoni.6057Ohoni.6057 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @urieldhynne.2743 said:
    We need to understand that they are tied to a compromise with people who invested money in this system, a bad system, buy a lot of people already spended money on it and they need to protect them.

    No. They do have to make things right with those players, either via refunds or bonus gifts, but that does NOT mean that they are incapable of fixing the existing 30 mount skins for everyone else.

  • usnedward.9023usnedward.9023 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2017

    So, what you are saying is RNG is RNG and the end user takes the risk as it has always been and is the same in every MMO I have played? It took me close to five years to get a TT ascended drop and since then two more (not complainging at all, pointing out RNG). Yet in TEQ I have acquired 12 or so ascended chests. Some in WvW. As for all the games I have played that has some type of "store" GW2 IMO has offered the most variety to get the glitter and glam.

    I do not think those that come here to complain AFTER they purchase something KNOWING ahead of time that they may not get what they want, actually realize that the complaint is a mute point due to the RNG and it is the gamble they take. It's a buyer's remorse and that is sad. As for those that want mount skins or other items that are usually GEM store bound to be found in game... it goes against the business model of having a store to either buy what you want or roll the dice while funding a game that has NO MONTHLY PREMIUM. Is this a rich man's game? Nah... farm some gold and trade for GEMS... never have to spend a dime if you don't want to.

    Thanks for the clarification though, as always trying to smooth icing on a cake with a spatula to many is like doing it with a rake. and that is truly sad.

  • I appreciate you reaching out to us but I do think you knew what a big thing this would be , you just hoped it would cull itself over. The fact that you said you do not want to lower the prices because people already bought them is not a good reason. You could just as easily refund gems to those for the difference. If you want to make any money off of this you should really try to lower the prices for these otherwise all the artists and game designers hard work is for next to nothing.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ThunderRonn.7615 said:
    I appreciate you reaching out to us but I do think you knew what a big thing this would be , you just hoped it would cull itself over. The fact that you said you do not want to lower the prices because people already bought them is not a good reason. You could just as easily refund gems to those for the difference. If you want to make any money off of this you should really try to lower the prices for these otherwise all the artists and game designers hard work is for next to nothing.

    Theres also the fact that these are cheaper because you arent garandeed the one you want. If you were to buy them eperately ther price would be higher. So ppl who bought previously get their gems back but now cant buy because they are more exp.

  • @Darcness.2408 said:
    I can honestly say I have lost all consumer faith for this game over this and I don't think I'm going to buy gems of any variety for a long, long time.

    Sure you will. I always say I won't and then a new shiny I like comes out and off to PayPal I go. RNG stuff I use gold to GEM trade because it is a risk.

  • DaveNic.5098DaveNic.5098 Member
    edited November 11, 2017

    Very disappointing answer. No direct sale at a reasonable price. No money from me!! I will not support these rng loot boxes under any circumstances. I only wanted a few of the skins and refuse to gamble on getting those few i like. I will never purchase an item from the gem store again after this attempted money grab. I've been playing without a break for over 5 years and I've invested a considerable amount through buying gems. Not another penny will you get!!

  • Oldirtbeard.9834Oldirtbeard.9834 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vanity Flare.8539 said:
    Stick your non apology up your kitten hole. You will not see another red cent from me until you remove this rng GARBAGE from the game. I will NEVER recommend your game to ANYONE again. I've played both gw games for like a decade and this is the pathetic excuse of an apology you give? This is the beginning of the end for your company you have just pissed off entirely too many people to EVER recover from whoever's idiotic idea this was. You have so many great idea's for how to remedy this DISGUSTING PREDATORY TACTIC and you're going to choose to do nothing instead? Your company cannot actually be that stupid to ever think this lame kitten attempt to "fix" things would work. I'm am sitting here aghast at how willfully ignorant you're choosing to be.

    Every. Single. Gamer. On the earth knows about how ALL of us DESPISE RNG BS/loot boxes and not one person in the company said "hey wait guys everyone is going to hate us for this you really think it's a good idea" . They probably did and you fired them for not wanting to GOUGE your playerbase. You have effectively signed the death warrant of this game so good kitten job guys. The whole company needs to go look in a kitten mirror until you FEEL the shame you deserve.

    Thank you for destroying a decade of my life with this asinine SCAMMY SCUMMY kitten.

    A lot of us are angry, as are you, just speak with your wallet and save your energy.

    “The only watchmaker is the blind forces of physics.”
    ― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

  • endirasae.3015endirasae.3015 Member
    edited November 11, 2017

    I knew mount skins would be the new monetisation strat for GW2 and was ok with that, but I am frankly astounded you guys thought this RNG lootbox method was the way to go about it. I would have happily spent a bit of money on a skin for each of my mounts and was even looking into doing so when I logged in this morning, and then I learned you couldn't just buy the ones you want.

    I like the skins, but I hate this strategy of selling content via RNG and am extremely skeptical that no one in charge thought there might be a backlash considering the current climate with stuff like this being shoved into games.

  • @usnedward.9023 said:

    @Darcness.2408 said:
    I can honestly say I have lost all consumer faith for this game over this and I don't think I'm going to buy gems of any variety for a long, long time.

    Sure you will. I always say I won't and then a new shiny I like comes out and off to PayPal I go. RNG stuff I use gold to GEM trade because it is a risk.

    :V I didn't say I never would- just a loooooong time. If I get a gem card as a gift (which my family knows was a way to my heart) I won't have a problem using it- just none of my own money for a while.

  • Frostfang.5109Frostfang.5109 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2017

    Can we who have bought contracts already (And got skins we wont/cant use) get the ability to trade in any of our aquired skins ONCE for a skin of our choice? Please!

  • Devildoc.6721Devildoc.6721 Member ✭✭✭

    @StaggerLee.6397 said:
    Is a mount skin being $5 really considered discounted?

    Unfortunately yes if you compare it to similar items in other MMO's. WoW sells $25 mount skins and it's a subscription game. ESO has mounts between $9-$30. LotRO between $10-$25.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aelyn.7954 said:

    @Mike O Brien.4613 said:

    • You get a brand-new, unique mount skin every time, for a substantial discount versus an individual purchase price.

    Mike, it saddens me to say this, but there's nothing "brand-new" in about 10 out of 30 skins. Have you ever seen them with your own eyes? It's the same mounts, they just have different dye patterns. Here's an example (2 new skins + the default one): https://i.imgur.com/IE7lJHP.gif

    A lot of people are complaining about Path of Fire being "unrewarding" - do you really think that it was a good idea to put all 30 mounts into this adoption system? It could've been just 25 instead of 30, with the other 5 added as a bunch of in-game rewards. This is what you did wrong. Not the price, not even the RNG.

    They could be considered diff breeds as the quote suggests. But your point is valid.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Elyssa.8307 said:
    You can't call it a microtransaction when the bundle costs twice as much as the game! Also, why have you not addressed the main issue e.g not a single one acquired through gameplay?

    Why? You are buying 30 diff skins why wouldnt that be exp? The microtransactions part is for the 1 on 1 purchase for those who want all of them theres a discounted but still high price.

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I didn't like gamble, hence I bought the 30 pack bundle. there are half the skins there which I will never ever use. I felt that I am being forced to purchase a pack of stuff with some junk in it that I didn't want and had to pay for it. I absolutely adore some of the skins and that I must have it. but having to pay for the other skins which I didn't want I felt that I am being cheated. well people say if you don't like the system you don't take part of it. but it has the skins that I like and the fact that I had to pay all of it and being told yeah you are paying for 30 skins not 10 but really, I only will be using that 5 to 10 skins. what do I do with the others?
    yes I have invested the mount, but sadly I am not a happy customer tho. trying to still get over this sickly feeling.

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
    Envoy's Herald, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • Kapax.3801Kapax.3801 Member ✭✭✭

    warhound skin= $ 25 :s
    Cuphead= $ 19,99 (and they had to mortgage their house :o )

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2017

    would appreciate some new mount skins even if it is ugly to be provided as part of a collection or a story line.. would love to see that as part of the game content not from Gem store. honestly... after this I felt really sick entirely anything to do with gemstore.
    Cheers

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
    Envoy's Herald, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • enidcomplex.2597enidcomplex.2597 Member
    edited November 11, 2017

    Thank you for responding to all of this feedback. As someone who has loved this game for several years and is a software design veteran, not only do I get how tough this week must have been, but I also need you to know that your team has created some of my favorite gaming experiences and has had a huge positive impact on my real life in tough times. I especially appreciate that you are addressing that we have high expectations for the team, and that there will be additional avenues/options for mount skins, just as we've seen for other high-end purchasable content; that goes a long way. Please - stay true to your words...and maybe hire like, a Marketing intern with passion and ideas - seriously. It's more expensive to continue not to do so. Thanks for the hard work and the adventures! We believe in you, don't let us down! <3

  • @Frostfang.5109 said:
    Can we who have bought contracts already (And got skins we wont/cant use) get the ability to trade in any of our aquired skins ONCE for a skin of our choice? Please!

    Nooo. But you can buy more lootboxes! This time you will get lucky, I'm sure.

  • Oldirtbeard.9834Oldirtbeard.9834 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Novus.1509 said:
    A huge FU to the fans. Thanks for your sorry but not sorry message. I'll be making sure to spread the word that this game is toxic now and no one should play. Your sell out scheme will backfire when you realize you took a quick payday and killed off your game. Explain that to all the employees there that will have to find new jobs. GW 2 is ruined.

    LMAO any one you talk to about this is just going to say its no different than half the other MMOS, just spend your money on none RNG stuff and enjoy the game. You remind me of a Necromancer.

    “The only watchmaker is the blind forces of physics.”
    ― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

  • Deihnyx.6318Deihnyx.6318 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2017

    A very honest and respectful answer, Thank you Mike.

    I didn't have problem with this system personally (much better than BL keys) but I do understand why some people had it.

    However one question remain: Are we going to get "legendary mount" skins obtainable in game?
    I think that would make your statement about your original intentions even more valuable.

    Also Im curious to know, what are you going to do about seasonal account bound RNG items? Are they going to be removed too?

  • Oldirtbeard.9834Oldirtbeard.9834 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Deihnyx.6318 said:
    A very honest and respectful answer, Thank you Mike.

    I didn't have problem with this system personally (much better than BL keys) but I do understand why some people had it.

    However one question remain: Are we going to get "legendary mount" skins obtainable in game?
    I think that would make your statement about your original intentions even more valuable.

    Also Im curious to know, what are you going to do about seasonal account bound RNG items? Are they going to be removed too?

    Probably for Raiders only with special trait lines added that would be specific for the new Raid Wings, in other words only something to enjoy if you play Mesmer, Ranger, Warrior, Elementalist, and Firebrand.

    “The only watchmaker is the blind forces of physics.”
    ― Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

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