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How to balance every single thing that's bad on Engineer [PvP]


Chaith.8256

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@Rezzet.3614 said:Turretz do need a sustain buff though sure they shouldnt tank focused damage but they shouldnt explode before they visibly spawn to indirect attacks either

I have proposed that turrets just be balanced around getting an overcharge off and going on a global 20s CD. No need to keep them alive past the first few seconds except to set up a blast finisher/knockback or reach the 10s lifespan if you run Experimental Turrets to get the last tick of boons.

With a balance like this, (without autoattack) the health of Turrets can be increased to avoid accidental instant death.

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@Rezzet.3614 said:Turretz do need a sustain buff though sure they shouldnt tank focused damage but they shouldnt explode before they visibly spawn to indirect attacks either

Turrets should act like a weaker version of scourge shades imo ( great area control and utility, but no condi dps please ) , right now the only good turrets are the elite and healing turret>

@Chaith.8256 said:

I have proposed that turrets just be balanced around getting an overcharge off and going on a global 20s CD. No need to keep them alive past the first few seconds except to set up a blast finisher/knockback or reach the 10s lifespan if you run Experimental Turrets to get the last tick of boons.

With a balance like this, (without autoattack) the health of Turrets can be increased to avoid accidental instant death.

those turret changes are uncreative dude, you can think of how to make everything on core engi broken as hell but you can't figure out how to "fix" turrets?

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I think the overcharging system and the auto-attack system is too complicated to work properly with. I'd like to see turrets changes like that :

  • turrets cooldown = 5 + 20x % health of the turret
  • each turret attack every 5s

Healing Turret would proc healing mist every 5s, yes, so maybe it's time to nerf it in order to stop its supremacy nadof allow space for the other heals.

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@Coolguy.8702 said:

those turret changes are uncreative dude, you can think of how to make everything on core engi broken as hell but you can't figure out how to "fix" turrets?

Everything I say is wrong cause you're just butt hurt, yet you have no objectively better ideas. "Like sand shades," ok 4Head

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@RedSPINE.7845 said:I think the overcharging system and the auto-attack system is too complicated to work properly with. I'd like to see turrets changes like that :

  • turrets cooldown = 5 + 20x % health of the turret
  • each turret attack every 5s

Healing Turret would proc healing mist every 5s, yes, so maybe it's time to nerf it in order to stop its supremacy nadof allow space for the other heals.

Not sure I understand what you're saying. Turret cooldown = 5 + (20*%HP) ? Can you elaborate more on how that'd work

"Each turret attack every 5s, so Healing turret would proc healing mist every 5s" Dude, nobody lets Healing Turret auto attack, it's just an overcharge and pick it up/detonate it. In fact, that's a nerf to Rifle with a 2s firing rate, Thumper with a 3s firing rate, and a big buff to Net Turret with a 10s firing rate. I don't get what the point is.

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@Rezzet.3614 said:i hope we get something like wildstar robots maybe , i dont see turrets ever being proper balanced unless made with manually trigger skills also the nerf to flame turret oc was stupid it should pulse blinds every second instead of 2 or have wider radius

They will never work as a pet class because of improper scaling. The easiest way they'll be usable without adding stat scaling to auto attacks and so forth, that's just to make them shorter cooldown overcharge, then detonate as fodder. They can be balanced and require skill/timing if they're just used used at the right moment, and detonated quickly at the right moment, for example.

Edit: I know for certain that as I proposed, Thumper Turret "Thump" overcharge on a 20s CD, Rocket Turret's Explosives Rocket on a 20s CD, and with Experimental Turrets being able to give base 50% uptime of Prot to allies, and Rocket Turret's 50% uptime of retal respectively - if it lives for the full 10s to get the second "Experimental Turrets" tick, that's pretty nice. With Advanced Turrets, they'd all have an instant reflect bubble and be able to knock back on death, too. Core Engineer could use them and be in a "Great" tier build in PvP.

They've been un-usable crap for so long, I think they just need the simplest fix possible, even though adding stat scaling would be better, it's been called impossible by ArenaNet

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@Chaith.8256 said:

Everything I say is wrong cause you're just butt hurt, yet you have no objectively better ideas. "Like sand shades," ok 4Head

You yourself said your not sure how to balance turrets (which i agree are really bad and need a buff) but those changes arent going to make em good, i can come up with plenty of good ideas that are much better than "thumper turret thump overcharge on 20cd" . Im not butt hurt at all, im feeling quite ok actually :)

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@Coolguy.8702 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:

Everything I say is wrong cause you're just butt hurt, yet you have no objectively better ideas. "Like sand shades," ok 4Head

You yourself said your not sure how to balance turrets (which i agree are really bad and need a buff) but those changes arent going to make em good, i can come up with plenty of good ideas that are much better than "thumper turret thump overcharge on 20cd" . Im not butt hurt at all, im feeling quite ok actually :)

Eh, I put some thought into it. I have suggestions to update all turrets, Experimental Turrets trait, and Advanced Turrets. You want them to be a weaker version of sand shades, how would that work? :trollface:

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@Chaith.8256 said:

Eh, I put some thought into it. I have suggestions to update all turrets, Experimental Turrets trait, and Advanced Turrets. You want them to be a weaker version of sand shades, how would that work? :trollface:

I didnt actually mean turrets should be like sand shades, i ment that that since they dont move, they should be great at area control (like shades, you see that red circle you get tf outta there) and have some effects to them, ( you only suggested cc and knockback). How to fix, im not sure yet, but when i get an idea it'll be much better than yours.

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@Coolguy.8702 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:

Eh, I put some thought into it. I have suggestions to update all turrets, Experimental Turrets trait, and Advanced Turrets. You want them to be a weaker version of sand shades, how would that work? :trollface:

I didnt actually mean turrets should be like sand shades, i ment that that since they dont move, they should be great at area control (like shades, you see that red circle you get tf outta there) and have some effects to them, ( you only suggested cc and knockback). How to fix, im not sure yet, but when i get an idea it'll be much better than yours.

Personally I'm tired of red circles that make the entire point impossible to stand on, it already exists and is called Scourge.

Turrets should be about clutch overcharge timing, clutch detonation knockbacks. It should not be about A.I autoattacks or inflicting cancer in an AoE.

Ok, well don't think too hard on your idea, I bet it'll be great and NOT give everyone.... Nvm :trollface:

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@Chaith.8256 said:

Personally I'm tired of red circles that make the entire point impossible to stand on, it already exists and is called Scourge.

Turrets should be about clutch overcharge timing, clutch detonation knockbacks. It should not be about A.I autoattacks or inflicting cancer in an AoE.

Ok, well don't think too hard on your idea, I bet it'll be great and NOT give everyone.... Nvm :trollface:

So you want turrets to be cc basically, got it. Your changes are even worse than mine since turrets would be like the old overpowered engi build that could hold and decap a point against anything. Man i gotta see you ingame some time, you look like a fun guy to be around.... :trollface:

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@Coolguy.8702 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:

Personally I'm tired of red circles that make the entire point impossible to stand on, it already exists and is called Scourge.

Turrets should be about clutch overcharge timing, clutch detonation knockbacks. It should not be about A.I autoattacks or inflicting cancer in an AoE.

Ok, well don't think too hard on your idea, I bet it'll be great and NOT give everyone.... Nvm :trollface:

So you want turrets to be cc basically, got it. Your changes are even worse than mine since turrets would be like the old overpowered engi build that could hold and decap a point against anything. Man i gotta see you ingame some time, you look like a fun guy to be around.... :trollface:

It's not a new idea for turrets to knock back on death and I didn't suggest to change overcharge skills. Better trait interaction, appropriate cooldowns, and no auto attacking - all player controlled pressure.

Turrets = better as skill based instead of red circle based. You're the one suggesting turrets should insta decap points with red circles, not me.

Flame turret and rifle turret are not CC

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@Chaith.8256 said:

It's not a new idea for turrets to knock back on death and I didn't suggest to change overcharge skills. Better trait interaction, appropriate cooldowns, and no auto attacking - all player controlled pressure.

Turrets = better as skill based instead of red circle based. You're the one suggesting turrets should insta decap points with red circles, not me.

Flame turret and rifle turret are not CC

This is literally what you just said about turrets

@Chaith.8256 said:.

Turrets should be about clutch overcharge timing, clutch detonation knockbacks.

You cant just change what you said like that, also i again never said turrets should be as op as sand shades (specifically desert shroud and neracious flavor that need to be toned down), i just said to add utility to the turrets instead of more knockback spam ( seriously this game has more than enough cc as is). If you thought by me saying to add red circles to turrets would make them the same as skills that can apply nearly every condi in the game on you and almost insta down you than your surely mistaken, buddy.

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@Coolguy.8702 said:

@Chaith.8256 said:

It's not a new idea for turrets to knock back on death and I didn't suggest to change overcharge skills. Better trait interaction, appropriate cooldowns, and no auto attacking - all player controlled pressure.

Turrets = better as skill based instead of red circle based. You're the one suggesting turrets should insta decap points with red circles, not me.

Flame turret and rifle turret are not CC

This is literally what you just said about turrets

@Chaith.8256 said:

Turrets should be about clutch overcharge timing, clutch detonation knockbacks.

You cant just change what you said like that, also i again never said turrets should be as op as sand shades (specifically desert shroud and neracious flavor that need to be toned down), i just said to add utility to the turrets instead of more knockback spam ( seriously this game has more than enough cc as is). If you thought by me saying to add red circles to turrets would make them the same as skills that can apply nearly every condi in the game on you and almost insta down you than your surely mistaken, buddy.

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Something came to my mind, what do you think about the idea of improving the toolkit AA even further, when the turret is hitted, their damage is signficantly enhanced and the reload for the next turret attack reduced to a 50% less from his normal fire ratio.

The third aa hit, along with this, fully condi cleanses the turret.

This would still keep turrets awful went left doing stuff alone, but if the engi wants to do active play with the turret, it gets rewarded for it.

Perhaps also add critical chance allowance if it isnt enough.

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@Ivantreil.3092 said:Something came to my mind, what do you think about the idea of improving the toolkit AA even further, when the turret is hitted, their damage is signficantly enhanced and the reload for the next turret attack reduced to a 50% less from his normal fire ratio.

The third aa hit, along with this, fully condi cleanses the turret.

This would still keep turrets awful went left doing stuff alone, but if the engi wants to do active play with the turret, it gets rewarded for it.

Perhaps also add critical chance allowance if it isnt enough.

It would have to like, SUPER power up the turret, at least equal or greater to what the Engineer can do by himself. Like Med Blaster, Tool Kit Autos will take your entire focus away from combat. Turrets only do static damage, like, 500-1400 a hit, so, how do you scale static damage in a fair way by whacking the turret? Is it engaging gameplay to run in circles whacking turrets while A.I kills players for you? I think the idea is not worth pursuing, although an interesting mechanic on paper. Seems not fun to play or play against.

Also, I think Turrets should move away from auto-attacks and trying to keep turrets alive to do the pressure for them - IF they're to be ever buffed and made viable.

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@Ivantreil.3092 said:I still feel theres something else that could be done, what about buff the condi damage of toolkit #2?

Improvements to Elixir gun #2, 3?

Look again, my first 4 changes to kits are:

Kits1.) Toolkit #3: Damage increased by 15%.

2.) Toolkit #2. 1 Torment added to ticks, same duration as cripple.

3.) Elixir Gun #2: Damage increased by 15%. Velocity increased by 50%.

4.) Elixir Gun #3: Poison duration increased from 2 to 4 seconds.

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