Kralkatorrik’s Powers (Spoilers) — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Kralkatorrik’s Powers (Spoilers)

Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

So it seems from the first Episode Kralkatorrik is using new powers he acquired after eating Balthazar’s energy. Looks like his minions are able to make Brandstorms or is Kralkatorrik doing this from a distance? Seems to be able conquer meteorites, power obtained from Jormag maybe? Also noticed that there’s branded Risen as well now.

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Comments

  • @Tyson.5160 said:
    So it seems from the first Episode Kralkatorrik is using new powers he acquired after eating Balthazar’s energy. Looks like his minions are able to make Brandstorms or is Kralkatorrik doing this from a distance? Seems to be able conquer meteorites, power obtained from Jormag maybe? Also noticed that there’s branded Risen as well now.

    What do you mean by conquering meteorites? I saw everything else you mentioned, but not that.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Sorry conjuring meteorites.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Seems very similar to the large Jormag meteors that Claws of Jormag create. Also doesn’t Jormag create Blizzards in areas away from him as well?

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭

    First off, it's practically stated in Daybreak that he's creating the Brandstorm from the mountain top that he's perched on. The Brandstones are meteors that have either passed through a Brandstorm or the Fury of the Brand(though that seems more unlikely as it doesn't reach that high into the atmosphere), they're not conjured, they are literally branded meteorites. That is something you find out on Istan, but you need to talk to the right NPC's and it's a vague description. As for raising Branded from the dead(that is what they are, you could call them Branded Risen, but I haven't seen that name yet) it's because when we killed Balthazar and the magic that was absorbed by Kralkatorrik it contained both Zhaitan's and Jormag's "magical powers".

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I recall during the final battle with Balthazar that Kralkatorrik was hurling meteors at the platform, that’s why I thought he was just creating them, as for the Branded Risen, the reason I said that was because of the comment that Canach said about getting your Risen killing boots on that and the Branded Thrall are red tinted Risen Thralls.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Oh and didn’t Kralkatorrik gain Zhaitan’s powerbwhen Zhaitan as well as when he gained magic from Mordremoth?

  • Sir Alric.5078Sir Alric.5078 Member ✭✭✭

    When Zhaitan and Mordremoth died, their spheres of influence (death magic, shadow magic, mind magic, and plant magic) went to the other elder dragons. It wasn't just Primordus and Jormag, but Kralkatorrik and the Deep Sea Dragon as well. Then afterwards Kralkatorrik also gain a huge power up by absorbing most of Balthazar's released energy (which contained his own magic plus the bloodstone magic, plus the energy he stole from Primordus and Jormag).

  • @Tyson.5160 said:
    Seems very similar to the large Jormag meteors that Claws of Jormag create. Also doesn’t Jormag create Blizzards in areas away from him as well?

    We see crystals falling out of the sky in Iron Marches, and the Searing is heavily hinted to have been using Kralkatorrik's power. So I'd say the meteors are Kralkatorrik's own magic, and not a domain of another Elder Dragon.

    @Zaklex.6308 said:
    First off, it's practically stated in Daybreak that he's creating the Brandstorm from the mountain top that he's perched on. The Brandstones are meteors that have either passed through a Brandstorm or the Fury of the Brand(though that seems more unlikely as it doesn't reach that high into the atmosphere), they're not conjured, they are literally branded meteorites. That is something you find out on Istan, but you need to talk to the right NPC's and it's a vague description. As for raising Branded from the dead(that is what they are, you could call them Branded Risen, but I haven't seen that name yet) it's because when we killed Balthazar and the magic that was absorbed by Kralkatorrik it contained both Zhaitan's and Jormag's "magical powers".

    I'm going to have to say they're conjured.

    It feels like the frequency is way too common to be common meteorites that just get corrupted mid-fall. Kralkatorrik also has a history of making crystals fall from the sky.

    @Sir Alric.5078 said:
    When Zhaitan and Mordremoth died, their spheres of influence (death magic, shadow magic, mind magic, and plant magic) went to the other elder dragons. It wasn't just Primordus and Jormag, but Kralkatorrik and the Deep Sea Dragon as well. Then afterwards Kralkatorrik also gain a huge power up by absorbing most of Balthazar's released energy (which contained his own magic plus the bloodstone magic, plus the energy he stole from Primordus and Jormag).

    Technically, Mordremoth's and Zhaitan's magic went to the world which could be absorbed by the others. This is why Jormag has only one notable minion influenced by Zhaitan's amd Mordremoth's magic. Primordus had so much because he moved to where the magic was building up.

    Kralkatorrik likely got a big amount of Zhaitan's magic due to his proximity. And we know he got some of Mordremoth's, but this was likely a small amount like Jormag (though he is closer and in a more direct path from the four directions we saw Mordy's magic move).

    But since we don't know the location of the DSD, we cannot be certain he got any of Zhaitan's or Mordremoth's magic.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Konig, we have had discussions before on the Dragons and their powers, what are your thoughts on the new Branded Thralls which are rose coloured Risen human Thralls. It seemed that from the Small Victory cinematic, Kralkatorrik flew over the corpse of a devourer that it became a regular branded devourer with a bit of green smoke, yet we have these rose coloured Branded Thralls, shouldn’t they be regular branded humans?

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    Konig, we have had discussions before on the Dragons and their powers, what are your thoughts on the new Branded Thralls which are rose coloured Risen human Thralls. It seemed that from the Small Victory cinematic, Kralkatorrik flew over the corpse of a devourer that it became a regular branded devourer with a bit of green smoke, yet we have these rose coloured Branded Thralls, shouldn’t they be regular branded humans?

    A possible distinction is that the dead devourer was Branded directly, while the thralls were created by lieutenants. So it's possible that Kralkatorrik has used his absorption of death magic to grant his champions the power to raise Risen - possibly because being able to raise Risen on the spot is more efficient than Branding, which in the absence of Kralkatorrik or a large concentration of Kralkatorrik's energy seems to require that the victim be sealed within a crystal for an extended period of time, while basic Risen seem to be able to be animated fairly quickly and easily.

    Branded humans and charr do seem to be noticeably more powerful than Thralls (game mechanics such as level scaling aside), so it's entirely possible that regular Branding is the preferred means of claiming a minion, while raising Thralls is simply something that is kept in reserve for when a lieutenant needs reinforcements now.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Interesting, I did notice that they were strictly coming from the lieutenants only. I believe Canach also mention this as well. I’m curious of what other minion powers are now available.

  • Sir Alric.5078Sir Alric.5078 Member ✭✭✭

    X Konig Des Todes

    True, but i am assuming that he did. We have seen all the other elder dragons becoming more powerful. Poor DSD can't be the only one who didn't get any stronger than he already was.

  • Out of interest, did we see any branded Awakened in Vabbi? I can't distinctly remember seeing any, though I may be misremembering, and if we don't physically see any (this could have just been minimal resources on creating new monster assets), is there any in-game lore on Awakened and corruption?

    The only reason I ask is if now Kralk has some more 'abilities' specifically related to death, does that change things? Is Joko about to walk into the biggest trap of his own making?

  • cNd.1096cNd.1096 Member ✭✭✭

    I didn't see any branded Awakened through whole expansion

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @cNd.1096 said:
    I didn't see any branded Awakened through whole expansion

    Neither did I. It is possible, though, that branding an Awakened simply produces a similar result to a branded human.

    Joko was supposed to have been legitimately skirmishing with Zhaitan's forces before the fall of Zhaitan, so one can presume he has some countermeasure to Zhaitan simply seizing control of his Awakened.

  • Athrenn.9468Athrenn.9468 Member ✭✭✭

    I've never seen Zhaitan seize control of a necromancer's own minions so I'd have to guess that his dominion over the living dead is limited.

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    So it seems from the first Episode Kralkatorrik is using new powers he acquired after eating Balthazar’s energy. Looks like his minions are able to make Brandstorms or is Kralkatorrik doing this from a distance? Seems to be able conquer meteorites, power obtained from Jormag maybe? Also noticed that there’s branded Risen as well now.

    Rytlock says that we're in real danger because Kralkatorrik can brand people in Amnoon from Kourna. Also the 2 storms that we saw at the end of PoF and at the beginning of Season 4 were created from this far distance...

    What interests me the most is that Kralkatorrik sits in the mountains instead of just flying throughout Tyria and brand everything...

    Seek, and you shall find.

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    @JayMack.8295 said:
    Out of interest, did we see any branded Awakened in Vabbi? I can't distinctly remember seeing any, though I may be misremembering, and if we don't physically see any (this could have just been minimal resources on creating new monster assets), is there any in-game lore on Awakened and corruption?

    The only reason I ask is if now Kralk has some more 'abilities' specifically related to death, does that change things? Is Joko about to walk into the biggest trap of his own making?

    We didnt see what happened to the awakened generals or soldiers when we killed Balthazar. There is no proofs to the theory that Awakened are immuned to the dragons' corruption.

    Seek, and you shall find.

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Athrenn.9468 said:
    I've never seen Zhaitan seize control of a necromancer's own minions so I'd have to guess that his dominion over the living dead is limited.

    Jormag and Primordus also took Zhaitan's magic, so Kralkatorrik doesn't have all the death magic.

    Seek, and you shall find.

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    @Sir Alric.5078 said:
    X Konig Des Todes

    True, but i am assuming that he did. We have seen all the other elder dragons becoming more powerful. Poor DSD can't be the only one who didn't get any stronger than he already was.

    Mordremoth's magic spread out in 4 directions- to Primordus (south)/ to Aurene (north)/ and to Jormag and Kralkatorrik (east), so another amount of his magic went to the west, right?

    So perhaps DSD is somewhere in the eastern western Tyria.

    Seek, and you shall find.

  • Sir Alric.5078Sir Alric.5078 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    @Arden.7480 said:

    @Sir Alric.5078 said:
    X Konig Des Todes

    True, but i am assuming that he did. We have seen all the other elder dragons becoming more powerful. Poor DSD can't be the only one who didn't get any stronger than he already was.

    Mordremoth's magic spread out in 4 directions- to Primordus (south)/ to Aurene (north)/ and to Jormag and Kralkatorrik (east), so another amount of his magic went to the west, right?

    So perhaps DSD is somewhere in the eastern Tyria.

    You meant western Tyria, right?
    Well, that's what i think too. And west (and south) of the Maguuma jungle is the unending ocean, so that portion of Mordremoth's magic should have gone to the DSD.

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    Sorry yes. XD I wrote that "another amount of his magic went to the west" I have no idea why I wrote eastern after xD

    Seek, and you shall find.

  • Tamias.7059Tamias.7059 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    Are we certain that it's Kralkatorrik that is causing the Brandstorms? I mean, I know that NPC's believe this to be the case, but I'd note that in both instances where we see remote Brandstorms (in Amnoon and later throughout Istan), Aurene is actually present. What if it's not Kralkatorrik causing the storms but Aurene, using power inherited from her grandsire? She would have absorbed more of Mordremoth's energy than Kralkatorrik, and any power that Balthazar gained from Primordus and Jormag was shared between both Kralkatorrik and Aurene.

    Two points against this theory:
    1. If Aurene inherited the power to create Brandstorms from Kralkatorrik, then why don't we ever observe Glint or Vlast creating Brandstorms? (possible answer: they have the power but learned to control it due to its destructiveness)
    2. Although we'd expect Aurene to have some of Zhaitan's magic, from absorbing it via Zhaitan->Mordremoth->Glint's Egg, or Zhaitan->Mordremoth->Primordus/Jormag->Balthazar->Aurene, or possibly just Zhaitan->Primordus/Jormag->Balthazar->Aurene, we'd still expect Kralkatorrik to have more of Zhaitan's magic than Mordremoth ever had, given that it was much closer geographically to Zhaitan at the time of its death. On the other hand, maybe Kralkatorrik wasn't located near a ley line nexus like the dormant Mordremoth was. We don't see Kralkatorrik using death magic until after absorbing Balthzar's magic, after all.

    One thing that's been bothering me: given that Balthazar absorbed magic off both Primordus and Jormag (and by extension, vestiges of Zhaitan and Mordremoth), why is it that the only magic we ever see him using resembles that of Primordus?

  • Sir Alric.5078Sir Alric.5078 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    @Tamias.7059 said:
    Are we certain that it's Kralkatorrik that is causing the Brandstorms? I mean, I know that NPC's believe this to be the case, but I'd note that in both instances where we see remote Brandstorms (in Amnoon and later throughout Istan), Aurene is actually present. What if it's not Kralkatorrik causing the storms but Aurene, using power inherited from her grandsire? She would have absorbed more of Mordremoth's energy than Kralkatorrik, and any power that Balthazar gained from Primordus and Jormag was shared between both Kralkatorrik and Aurene.

    Two points against this theory:
    1. If Aurene inherited the power to create Brandstorms from Kralkatorrik, then why don't we ever observe Glint or Vlast creating Brandstorms? (possible answer: they have the power but learned to control it due to its destructiveness)
    2. Although we'd expect Aurene to have some of Zhaitan's magic, from absorbing it via Zhaitan->Mordremoth->Glint's Egg, or Zhaitan->Mordremoth->Primordus/Jormag->Balthazar->Aurene, or possibly just Zhaitan->Primordus/Jormag->Balthazar->Aurene, we'd still expect Kralkatorrik to have more of Zhaitan's magic than Mordremoth ever had, given that it was much closer geographically to Zhaitan at the time of its death. On the other hand, maybe Kralkatorrik wasn't located near a ley line nexus like the dormant Mordremoth was. We don't see Kralkatorrik using death magic until after absorbing Balthzar's magic, after all.

    One thing that's been bothering me: given that Balthazar absorbed magic off both Primordus and Jormag (and by extension, vestiges of Zhaitan and Mordremoth), why is it that the only magic we ever see him using resembles that of Primordus?

    If it was Aurene creating the brandstorm, than said brandstorm would stick to her body and follow her wherever she goes (just like Kralkatorrik's body is permanently enveloped by his brandstorm). Even more so if she is unable to control it as you say. Yet, the brandstorm was only present in Amnoon where Kralkatorrik's minions were, and did not follow Aurene to Istan.
    So no, creating brandstorms is a power unique to Kralkatorrik, and will remain that way unless someone kills the elder dragon and Aurene absorbs his magic power. Which won't happen since if Kralk dies, the world goes boom.

    EDIT: P. S. - Balthazar is the god of war and fire, that's why he uses fire magic. I don't think anyone but dragons is capable of asborbing and using different types of magic at the same time.

  • @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @cNd.1096 said:
    I didn't see any branded Awakened through whole expansion

    Neither did I. It is possible, though, that branding an Awakened simply produces a similar result to a branded human.

    Joko was supposed to have been legitimately skirmishing with Zhaitan's forces before the fall of Zhaitan, so one can presume he has some countermeasure to Zhaitan simply seizing control of his Awakened.

    There were Branded Awakened in the mission where you're going back into Amnoon Oasis and you find Aurene. One of the NPCs makes a comment about how the Awakened are deliberately being targeted and branded.

    Leader of The Hardcore Caravan [HC]
    Played Necromancer since Prophecies Launch
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  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    In the Sacrifice mission Canach or Kasmeer makes mention that there are crystal shards that look like branded, however they are kinda greeny clear. If Aurene could make brandstorms it probably would not look the same. The crystals Vlast was using were purified.

    Canach: Commander, look at this.
    Canach: Scorch marks. More intense than the rest.
    : The sand here has melted to glass.
    Lady Kasmeer Meade: So it's the same effect as Kralkatorrik's Branding, only with Vlast it's not corrupted.
    Rytlock Brimstone: So...not as bad as Kralkatorrik. But still a kitten dragon.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    @Tamias.7059 said:
    Are we certain that it's Kralkatorrik that is causing the Brandstorms? I mean, I know that NPC's believe this to be the case, but I'd note that in both instances where we see remote Brandstorms (in Amnoon and later throughout Istan), Aurene is actually present. What if it's not Kralkatorrik causing the storms but Aurene, using power inherited from her grandsire? She would have absorbed more of Mordremoth's energy than Kralkatorrik, and any power that Balthazar gained from Primordus and Jormag was shared between both Kralkatorrik and Aurene.

    Two points against this theory:
    1. If Aurene inherited the power to create Brandstorms from Kralkatorrik, then why don't we ever observe Glint or Vlast creating Brandstorms? (possible answer: they have the power but learned to control it due to its destructiveness)
    2. Although we'd expect Aurene to have some of Zhaitan's magic, from absorbing it via Zhaitan->Mordremoth->Glint's Egg, or Zhaitan->Mordremoth->Primordus/Jormag->Balthazar->Aurene, or possibly just Zhaitan->Primordus/Jormag->Balthazar->Aurene, we'd still expect Kralkatorrik to have more of Zhaitan's magic than Mordremoth ever had, given that it was much closer geographically to Zhaitan at the time of its death. On the other hand, maybe Kralkatorrik wasn't located near a ley line nexus like the dormant Mordremoth was. We don't see Kralkatorrik using death magic until after absorbing Balthzar's magic, after all.

    One thing that's been bothering me: given that Balthazar absorbed magic off both Primordus and Jormag (and by extension, vestiges of Zhaitan and Mordremoth), why is it that the only magic we ever see him using resembles that of Primordus?

    Perhaps Balthazar can’t use the dragon power through corruption, but can consume the power to power himself up like a battery. You would think if Balthazar had four of the dragons power at his disposal he would be able to make minions and would not need the Forged at all, however this doesn’t seem to be the case.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 4, 2017

    @JayMack.8295 said:
    Out of interest, did we see any branded Awakened in Vabbi? I can't distinctly remember seeing any, though I may be misremembering, and if we don't physically see any (this could have just been minimal resources on creating new monster assets), is there any in-game lore on Awakened and corruption?

    The only reason I ask is if now Kralk has some more 'abilities' specifically related to death, does that change things? Is Joko about to walk into the biggest trap of his own making?

    I heard comments that if you sided with the Awakened in Blazing a Trail, awakened - and branded awaken - show up during Eye of the Brandstorm.

    @Tamias.7059 said:
    Are we certain that it's Kralkatorrik that is causing the Brandstorms? I mean, I know that NPC's believe this to be the case, but I'd note that in both instances where we see remote Brandstorms (in Amnoon and later throughout Istan), Aurene is actually present. What if it's not Kralkatorrik causing the storms but Aurene, using power inherited from her grandsire?

    So... Aurene is the one creating the branded and fighting those very creations?

    That doesn't seem right. Furthermore, her fire is a different hue entirely from Branded's fire.

    We're also told in Istan that Kralkatorrik is sending corrupted meteorites and brandstorms even to Istan. We even see branded in Fahranur where Aurene is not.

    Not to mention that Kralkatorrik is purpose and makes purple crystals, while Glint is blue and makes blue crystals, and Vlast was gold and made gold crystals. Aurene, being blue, by these examples, should be making blue crystals.

    @Tamias.7059 said:
    One thing that's been bothering me: given that Balthazar absorbed magic off both Primordus and Jormag (and by extension, vestiges of Zhaitan and Mordremoth), why is it that the only magic we ever see him using resembles that of Primordus?

    We don't even see that. His fire is different from Primordus' fire.

    And by all interpretation, absorbing an Elder Dragon's magic doesn't mean you're forced to using that magic in the way the Elder Dragon did. Kralkatorrik very obviously absorbed Mordremoth's magic (we're outright told this) but we never see any vines or the like.

  • @Arden.7480 said:

    @Tyson.5160 said:
    So it seems from the first Episode Kralkatorrik is using new powers he acquired after eating Balthazar’s energy. Looks like his minions are able to make Brandstorms or is Kralkatorrik doing this from a distance? Seems to be able conquer meteorites, power obtained from Jormag maybe? Also noticed that there’s branded Risen as well now.

    Rytlock says that we're in real danger because Kralkatorrik can brand people in Amnoon from Kourna. Also the 2 storms that we saw at the end of PoF and at the beginning of Season 4 were created from this far distance...

    What interests me the most is that Kralkatorrik sits in the mountains instead of just flying throughout Tyria and brand everything...

    It does make me wonder if Kralk's wake is intentional or he just produces so much raw crystaline energies that he simply flies around not really caring what gets branded or not. The storms however might be intentional to some degree, maybe the crystal spikes we have to break in Amnoon as well as his lieutenants are capable of conjuring branded storms without his explicit instructions. Which would mean he hasn't recognized the damage he can lay waste to lands, so why isn't he doing bombing runs? Hahaha

    That being said, Woodenpotatoes did point out that in hooking West, there is an area that was a cemetery in GW1 that Kralk has potentially strafed through. Since we've seen branded thralls, imagine that entire cemetery being risen up from the dirt.

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tamias.7059 said:
    Are we certain that it's Kralkatorrik that is causing the Brandstorms? I mean, I know that NPC's believe this to be the case, but I'd note that in both instances where we see remote Brandstorms (in Amnoon and later throughout Istan), Aurene is actually present. What if it's not Kralkatorrik causing the storms but Aurene, using power inherited from her grandsire? She would have absorbed more of Mordremoth's energy than Kralkatorrik, and any power that Balthazar gained from Primordus and Jormag was shared between both Kralkatorrik and Aurene.

    Two points against this theory:
    1. If Aurene inherited the power to create Brandstorms from Kralkatorrik, then why don't we ever observe Glint or Vlast creating Brandstorms? (possible answer: they have the power but learned to control it due to its destructiveness)
    2. Although we'd expect Aurene to have some of Zhaitan's magic, from absorbing it via Zhaitan->Mordremoth->Glint's Egg, or Zhaitan->Mordremoth->Primordus/Jormag->Balthazar->Aurene, or possibly just Zhaitan->Primordus/Jormag->Balthazar->Aurene, we'd still expect Kralkatorrik to have more of Zhaitan's magic than Mordremoth ever had, given that it was much closer geographically to Zhaitan at the time of its death. On the other hand, maybe Kralkatorrik wasn't located near a ley line nexus like the dormant Mordremoth was. We don't see Kralkatorrik using death magic until after absorbing Balthzar's magic, after all.

    One thing that's been bothering me: given that Balthazar absorbed magic off both Primordus and Jormag (and by extension, vestiges of Zhaitan and Mordremoth), why is it that the only magic we ever see him using resembles that of Primordus?

    On top of what's already been said, if you get smacked with the lightning, the combat log reads 'Kralkatorrik hits you'. I know, I know, mechanics aren't lore and all that, but that same log was the only source we had on Mordremoth's name for years.

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Went back to the first mission with a character that allied Amnoon to Joko. There are indeed branded Awakened, which means Joko are susceptible to Kralkatorrik’s corruption.

  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    I heard comments that if you sided with the Awakened in Blazing a Trail, awakened - and branded awaken - show up during Eye of the Brandstorm.

    I can confirm this. I sided with the Awakened, and there were Branded Awakened. The NPCs make a note that whoever is doing the branding is specifically targetting the Awakened: the Awakened were doing a good job fighting the Branded off and were even winning for a bit, but then they were specifically targeted for branding..

    Leader of The Hardcore Caravan [HC]
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  • Athrenn.9468Athrenn.9468 Member ✭✭✭

    You know what's a scary thought? All Kralkatorrik needs to do is Brand one lich and every Awakened undead in his service would then belong to the dragon. Kralkatorrik could keep Joko as a puppet ruler and effectively govern an empire through him.

  • Sir Alric.5078Sir Alric.5078 Member ✭✭✭

    @Athrenn.9468 said:
    You know what's a scary thought? All Kralkatorrik needs to do is Brand one lich and every Awakened undead in his service would then belong to the dragon. Kralkatorrik could keep Joko as a puppet ruler and effectively govern an empire through him.

    I don't think Kralkatorrik cares about ruling though. He just moves from one place to another bringing nothing but destruction in his wake.

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Athrenn.9468 said:
    You know what's a scary thought? All Kralkatorrik needs to do is Brand one lich and every Awakened undead in his service would then belong to the dragon. Kralkatorrik could keep Joko as a puppet ruler and effectively govern an empire through him.

    I think that's our last hope to defeat Joko, because as an awakened he is invincible (even Balthazar's powers were not enough to just kill him, he had to imprison him instead), so if he will be corrupted by Kralkatorrik or Aurene that will already consume his powers, then we'll be able to kill him.

    But what if Joko is immuned of being branded? If yes, we can just /gg

    Seek, and you shall find.

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2017

    @Sir Alric.5078 said:

    @Athrenn.9468 said:
    You know what's a scary thought? All Kralkatorrik needs to do is Brand one lich and every Awakened undead in his service would then belong to the dragon. Kralkatorrik could keep Joko as a puppet ruler and effectively govern an empire through him.

    I don't think Kralkatorrik cares about ruling though. He just moves from one place to another bringing nothing but destruction in his wake.

    Bringing the destruction is also some kind of ruling over somebody. Look at Kim Jon-un- he brings the waste in his country and it's all because of his willingness to rule. Or H itler- he just moved from Germany to Poland then to other countries to destroy everybody he didn't like, and don't say he didn't want to rule over everybody...

    Seek, and you shall find.

  • @Ronin.7381 said:
    It does make me wonder if Kralk's wake is intentional or he just produces so much raw crystaline energies that he simply flies around not really caring what gets branded or not. The storms however might be intentional to some degree, maybe the crystal spikes we have to break in Amnoon as well as his lieutenants are capable of conjuring branded storms without his explicit instructions. Which would mean he hasn't recognized the damage he can lay waste to lands, so why isn't he doing bombing runs? Hahaha

    He might be hunting Aurene and doesn't care about the rest at all.

  • Athrenn.9468Athrenn.9468 Member ✭✭✭

    Kralkatorrik could be a brutally intelligent animal who knows his kind is being hunted to extinction. He might realize the benefit of having the God Emperor of Elona as his champion. That could be enough to make Joko a high priority target.

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arden.7480 said:

    @Athrenn.9468 said:
    You know what's a scary thought? All Kralkatorrik needs to do is Brand one lich and every Awakened undead in his service would then belong to the dragon. Kralkatorrik could keep Joko as a puppet ruler and effectively govern an empire through him.

    I think that's our last hope to defeat Joko, because as an awakened he is invincible (even Balthazar's powers were not enough to just kill him, he had to imprison him instead), so if he will be corrupted by Kralkatorrik or Aurene that will already consume his powers, then we'll be able to kill him.

    But what if Joko is immuned of being branded? If yes, we can just /gg

    Why do you think that a Branded Joko would be vulnerable? Not calling you out specifically, but this is a sentiment I've seen coming up often. We know that creatures succumbed to dragon corruption can keep their powers- the risen priests of Balthazar called on his hounds, the modrem Itzel fight like flesh-and-blood Itzel, the branded Priests of Kormir in Daybreak use the same special hexes as the non-branded ones, etc. The specifics might be warped a bit- a lot of the Orrian risen spellcasters got death effects mixed in- but the core was often left intact, particularly in circumstances where it proved useful.

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aaron Ansari.1604 said:

    @Arden.7480 said:

    @Athrenn.9468 said:
    You know what's a scary thought? All Kralkatorrik needs to do is Brand one lich and every Awakened undead in his service would then belong to the dragon. Kralkatorrik could keep Joko as a puppet ruler and effectively govern an empire through him.

    I think that's our last hope to defeat Joko, because as an awakened he is invincible (even Balthazar's powers were not enough to just kill him, he had to imprison him instead), so if he will be corrupted by Kralkatorrik or Aurene that will already consume his powers, then we'll be able to kill him.

    But what if Joko is immuned of being branded? If yes, we can just /gg

    Why do you think that a Branded Joko would be vulnerable? Not calling you out specifically, but this is a sentiment I've seen coming up often. We know that creatures succumbed to dragon corruption can keep their powers- the risen priests of Balthazar called on his hounds, the modrem Itzel fight like flesh-and-blood Itzel, the branded Priests of Kormir in Daybreak use the same special hexes as the non-branded ones, etc. The specifics might be warped a bit- a lot of the Orrian risen spellcasters got death effects mixed in- but the core was often left intact, particularly in circumstances where it proved useful.

    Furthermore, while the Order of Whispers couldn't find a way to permanently kill Joko in GW1, it's possible that a way will be found in GW2. Or we'll just have to resort to sealing him away again or driving him out of the settled parts of Elona, making him a potential recurring villain for the future.

  • Aaron Ansari.1604Aaron Ansari.1604 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @Aaron Ansari.1604 said:

    @Arden.7480 said:

    @Athrenn.9468 said:
    You know what's a scary thought? All Kralkatorrik needs to do is Brand one lich and every Awakened undead in his service would then belong to the dragon. Kralkatorrik could keep Joko as a puppet ruler and effectively govern an empire through him.

    I think that's our last hope to defeat Joko, because as an awakened he is invincible (even Balthazar's powers were not enough to just kill him, he had to imprison him instead), so if he will be corrupted by Kralkatorrik or Aurene that will already consume his powers, then we'll be able to kill him.

    But what if Joko is immuned of being branded? If yes, we can just /gg

    Why do you think that a Branded Joko would be vulnerable? Not calling you out specifically, but this is a sentiment I've seen coming up often. We know that creatures succumbed to dragon corruption can keep their powers- the risen priests of Balthazar called on his hounds, the modrem Itzel fight like flesh-and-blood Itzel, the branded Priests of Kormir in Daybreak use the same special hexes as the non-branded ones, etc. The specifics might be warped a bit- a lot of the Orrian risen spellcasters got death effects mixed in- but the core was often left intact, particularly in circumstances where it proved useful.

    Furthermore, while the Order of Whispers couldn't find a way to permanently kill Joko in GW1, it's possible that a way will be found in GW2. Or we'll just have to resort to sealing him away again or driving him out of the settled parts of Elona, making him a potential recurring villain for the future.

    Possible, but I'm hoping not. ANet doesn't have a track record of gracefully introducing their magical McGuffins. I'd like to see old capabilities used in creative ways for a while, instead of new ones cropping up every time we bump up against something remotely challenging.

    A pity that we just rid ourselves of the Ender of All and Death Inevitable...

    R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.

  • Athrenn.9468Athrenn.9468 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aaron Ansari.1604

    That is unfortunately true for the GW2 story so far, and something I've always regretted. Taking a trip down memory lane, many of the major big bad deaths we've seen in the story have involved McGuffins introduced moments before their deaths—being handed the silver bullet instead of discovering it ourselves, if you will.

    Zhaitan: Zojja's dragonslaying laser gun was foreshadowed by Professor Gorr early on, then forgotten until an airship flew onto the scene with a giant version of the device which happened to be Zhaitan's main weakness. What's worse, this foreshadowing could be completely missed if you never played the asura storyline or chose a different branching path in the Pact story. For many players, the resolution would have come out of left field.

    Mordremoth: The Commander realized only moments before entering Mordremoth's mind that Trahearne was the one person who could grant them access through the Dream, which nobody quite understood at the time. Nor was it understood that his mind was his only weakness, only that the Novans did some research that said, "All dragons have a weakness." Then they pulled that answer out of thin air.

    Lazarus: Introduced to us minutes before his death, the sword that killed him was also handed to us halfway through the episode. We were also told shortly before the final fight that we, the Commander, were Chosen... Which was the only reason we could see Lazarus. Of course, in GW1 you needed to be both Chosen and Ascended. What happened to that?

    Balthazar: Magic sword, literally handed to us during the final mission by Rytlock who said, "Of course... It all makes sense now. Only this special sword can defeat Balthazar. Why's that? Grr... Later, cub."

    The execution has been quite lacking so far, but that might be because they only just hired an editor for Living World and nobody was specifically in charge of managing pacing and continuity. Judging by Daybreak's surprisingly good structure, that might be all they really needed from the start.

  • Tamias.7059Tamias.7059 Member ✭✭✭

    @Athrenn.9468 said:
    @Aaron Ansari.1604

    That is unfortunately true for the GW2 story so far, and something I've always regretted. Taking a trip down memory lane, many of the major big bad deaths we've seen in the story have involved McGuffins introduced moments before their deaths—being handed the silver bullet instead of discovering it ourselves, if you will.

    Zhaitan: Zojja's dragonslaying laser gun was foreshadowed by Professor Gorr early on, then forgotten until an airship flew onto the scene with a giant version of the device which happened to be Zhaitan's main weakness. What's worse, this foreshadowing could be completely missed if you never played the asura storyline or chose a different branching path in the Pact story. For many players, the resolution would have come out of left field.

    Mordremoth: The Commander realized only moments before entering Mordremoth's mind that Trahearne was the one person who could grant them access through the Dream, which nobody quite understood at the time. Nor was it understood that his mind was his only weakness, only that the Novans did some research that said, "All dragons have a weakness." Then they pulled that answer out of thin air.

    Lazarus: Introduced to us minutes before his death, the sword that killed him was also handed to us halfway through the episode. We were also told shortly before the final fight that we, the Commander, were Chosen... Which was the only reason we could see Lazarus. Of course, in GW1 you needed to be both Chosen and Ascended. What happened to that?

    Balthazar: Magic sword, literally handed to us during the final mission by Rytlock who said, "Of course... It all makes sense now. Only this special sword can defeat Balthazar. Why's that? Grr... Later, cub."

    The execution has been quite lacking so far, but that might be because they only just hired an editor for Living World and nobody was specifically in charge of managing pacing and continuity. Judging by Daybreak's surprisingly good structure, that might be all they really needed from the start.

    See, I enjoyed Daybreak, but I still have my reservations on the direction of the story, especially when it comes to differing approaches between PoF and LWS4. In PoF, the first thing we hear when we get into Vabbi is about how integrated into peoples' lives the Awakened are, and that things won't be as easy as just getting rid of Joko. In Daybreak, we don't really get that complicated picture at all, we just have Nightfalll Mk. II.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2017

    @Athrenn.9468 said:
    Zhaitan: Zojja's dragonslaying laser gun was foreshadowed by Professor Gorr early on, then forgotten until an airship flew onto the scene with a giant version of the device which happened to be Zhaitan's main weakness. What's worse, this foreshadowing could be completely missed if you never played the asura storyline or chose a different branching path in the Pact story. For many players, the resolution would have come out of left field.

    The giant laser was never Zhaitan's weakness, let alone his main weakness. Zhaitan's weakness was the fact we killed his eyes, killed his mouths, cleansed the source, and destroyed his armies, greatly liming the amount of power he could take in. Which resulted in him being basically anemic by the time we fought him. The laser was just a big gun we used to shoot at him.

    @Athrenn.9468 said:
    Balthazar: Magic sword, literally handed to us during the final mission by Rytlock who said, "Of course... It all makes sense now. Only this special sword can defeat Balthazar. Why's that? Grr... Later, cub."

    Well, to be fair, Kormir did hint at it earlier when she said the power was in your hands or w/e. Which Rytlock even mentions when he gives you the sword.

  • Daniel.5428Daniel.5428 Member ✭✭✭

    The legend says that even with his new power, Kralkatorrik still cannot controll that broken orb from Wing 5.

  • Athrenn.9468Athrenn.9468 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2017

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:
    The giant laser was never Zhaitan's weakness, let alone his main weakness. Zhaitan's weakness was the fact we killed his eyes, killed his mouths, cleansed the source, and destroyed his armies, greatly liming the amount of power he could take in. Which resulted in him being basically anemic by the time we fought him. The laser was just a big gun we used to shoot at him.

    While I see nothing inherently wrong with the logic of that argument, my counterpoint is that in terms of dramatic impact ... it feels cheap. In Heart of Thorns, Act 3: Buried Insights, Taimi said this: "Based on their extensive research on Primordus, the Rata Novans determined that each Elder Dragon had a weakness. A unique respective weakness." That is a huge Chekov's Gun. When I read that as a student of writing, I say, "Okay, you've already established that there are six Elder Dragons in your universe and you've just told me that each one has a unique respective weakness. It's now your job to surprise me with six interesting ways of defeating these dragons—six unique weaknesses that are fun to explore and full of narrative potential. If you deliver on that promise in a way that is wonderful and amazing then I will be impressed." If Zhaitan's unique respective weakness was killing his minions then that promise would fall flat on its face. That's like telling the audience that the Krytan army has a unique respective weakness. What could it be?! Turns out, their weakness is that if you kill all their soldiers ... that weakens them. That's just such low-hanging fruit that it would be anti-climactic and disappointing. They need to show us six unique and interesting weaknesses because they've promised us that they exist and this is an action/adventure fantasy narrative so their story needs to deliver on that sense of wonder for it to satisfy their audience.

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:
    Well, to be fair, Kormir did hint at it earlier when she said the power was in your hands or w/e. Which Rytlock even mentions when he gives you the sword.

    While entirely true, I also don't like contrived mysteries that shouldn't have been a mystery to begin with. What was Kormir's motivation for being cryptic? If they had established that Kormir was forbidden from interfering in mortal affairs and therefore couldn't give the protagonist a straight answer then I would have said fine, she was forced to be cryptic and that's how it needed to be. But that's not how it was presented to us..

    What was her motivation for not telling the Commander, "Look, Balthazar's weakness is that sword. Literally, that flaming magical sword in your charr friend's hand. If you stab him with that, he's going to die because of the way it was made." That was all she needed to say, and if she wanted Balthazar defeated then she would have told us straight up. If a character is being cryptic for no other reason than to create an artificial sense of suspense, then that's shoddy writing.

    Characters who behave stupidly such as withholding important information that could potentially save the world when they have no reason not to are not behaving like people, they're just slaves to the plot outline which says, "The Commander isn't allowed to know that Rytlock's magic sword is the key to defeating Balthazar until the very last minute before the big fight in Act 3." What the writers should have done (if they really felt like the suspense was necessary) was give Kormir a reason for not being able to share that information with the Commander. If there was no good plot reason for the information being concealed then they should have allowed Kormir to reveal it to us because it just makes sense.

  • Athrenn.9468Athrenn.9468 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tamias.7059 said:

    @Athrenn.9468 said:
    @Aaron Ansari.1604

    That is unfortunately true for the GW2 story so far, and something I've always regretted. Taking a trip down memory lane, many of the major big bad deaths we've seen in the story have involved McGuffins introduced moments before their deaths—being handed the silver bullet instead of discovering it ourselves, if you will.

    Zhaitan: Zojja's dragonslaying laser gun was foreshadowed by Professor Gorr early on, then forgotten until an airship flew onto the scene with a giant version of the device which happened to be Zhaitan's main weakness. What's worse, this foreshadowing could be completely missed if you never played the asura storyline or chose a different branching path in the Pact story. For many players, the resolution would have come out of left field.

    Mordremoth: The Commander realized only moments before entering Mordremoth's mind that Trahearne was the one person who could grant them access through the Dream, which nobody quite understood at the time. Nor was it understood that his mind was his only weakness, only that the Novans did some research that said, "All dragons have a weakness." Then they pulled that answer out of thin air.

    Lazarus: Introduced to us minutes before his death, the sword that killed him was also handed to us halfway through the episode. We were also told shortly before the final fight that we, the Commander, were Chosen... Which was the only reason we could see Lazarus. Of course, in GW1 you needed to be both Chosen and Ascended. What happened to that?

    Balthazar: Magic sword, literally handed to us during the final mission by Rytlock who said, "Of course... It all makes sense now. Only this special sword can defeat Balthazar. Why's that? Grr... Later, cub."

    The execution has been quite lacking so far, but that might be because they only just hired an editor for Living World and nobody was specifically in charge of managing pacing and continuity. Judging by Daybreak's surprisingly good structure, that might be all they really needed from the start.

    See, I enjoyed Daybreak, but I still have my reservations on the direction of the story, especially when it comes to differing approaches between PoF and LWS4. In PoF, the first thing we hear when we get into Vabbi is about how integrated into peoples' lives the Awakened are, and that things won't be as easy as just getting rid of Joko. In Daybreak, we don't really get that complicated picture at all, we just have Nightfalll Mk. II.

    My interpretation is that the political dynamic is different in each Elonian province and we're going to explore the nuance of each situation so that we know which provinces are strongly pro-Joko and which ones are against him. In Vabbi, the Awakened are clearly more integrated with the living populace. For better or for worse, they worship Joko in Vabbi and the number of citizens residing happily south of the Bone Wall seem to be numerically superior to the dissenters who are brutally exiled north of the Wall for speaking out against the king. On the island of Istan, the Istani people have a close connection to their Sunspear heritage. That makes them harder to win over for Joko and there's always been a divide between the living and the dead which is why more violent solutions are brought in to stomp the rebels under the iron heel of the empire. Kourna is more likely to be the province that could fall to either side of the fence and it will be their vote that decides whether Joko wins or loses the civil war against the Sunspear rebels. They're soldiers, a province with a rich military heritage. They're more accustomed to following orders, even when those orders involve pacifying and enslaving non-humans (In the 11th century, the Kournans took centaurs as slaves) and may be more willing to accept Joko's brutal government policies just as they seemed to accept Varesh's. That means we're going to see less extremely polarized political views and more straddling-the-fence ones.

  • Sajuuk Khar.1509Sajuuk Khar.1509 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2017

    @Athrenn.9468 said:
    snip

    The difference is that Zhaitan was unique among the Elder Dragons(that we have seen) in that he had specially designed Eye and Mouth minions, which allowed him greater control over his armies, and greater means to eat magic, without having to actually BE THERE, then the other Elder Dragons did. It isn't that you just killed his minions, it's that you killed unique minions, only he had, that served a vital function in keeping him functioning, gave him a unique advantage of mobility, and also served as a weakness as, once killed, he was unable to really do much of anything.

    As for Kormir, she was cryptic the same reason why the gods were cryptic during Nightfall about how to beat Abbadon. The whole point is that the gods can't just keep giving mortals all the answers, and that mortal have to figure things out on their own, even if it means possibly dying in case they fail. You can't have your parent holding your hand through life all the time. Especially when those parents are gods whose power can nuke entire oceans. It was part of the reason why they left in the first place. This is common of god-like entities in most fictional universes. The Ancients from Stargate, the Aedra from Elder Scrolls, the Q from Star Trek, all of them give only cryptic hints at how to solve problems, and leave mortals to figure it out on their own, even if failure means death for an entire species or world. And they do so for no real reason beyond knowing that people have to figure out things for themselves.

  • Athrenn.9468Athrenn.9468 Member ✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2017

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509

    I've never been big into the Elder Scrolls universe so I can't speak for that, but I've watched just about every episode of Stargate SG-1, Atlantis and the movies Continuum and Ark of Truth so I feel confident saying that the Ancients and the Six Gods are soooooo different that you can't even compare them.

    The Ancients seeded humanity across the Universe before they ascended their physical forms so they did create humans and could be considered the gods of the Stargate universe, but they never ruled over humanity and had as much emotional investment in our race as we might have in some living organisms that we might seed a million lightyears across the galaxy from Earth. They don't care about humans because they're happy being powerful ascended beings doing whatever ascended beings do. They never owed humanity anything. There were, however, a few Ancients who remained on Earth such as Morgan le Fay and Merlin who cared deeply about humans and did interfere to "set things right" from their perspective. They believed that the Ancients owed us a debt in creating us and couldn't just wash their hands of moral responsibility. Merlin died protecting humanity from the invasive Ori and Morgan le Fay locked herself in eternal combat with another equally powerful being to save us from the same threat, so you can't say that all Ancients didn't care. Some of them made heroic sacrifices on behalf of humanity and that's why they stood out as powerful characters.

    Also, can you name any story where a child calls their parent up in desperate need because someone is trying to kill them only to get turned down? Balthazar was on the warpath doing the equivalent of threatening to burn our house down and Kormir just said, "The answer is in your hands..." No loving parent would be so apathetic about the potential death of their child.

  • Pax.3548Pax.3548 Member ✭✭✭

    I think joko's defeat involves dealing with his inmortality, which, I assume, is of magical nature, my solution? beat him, tie him up and then throw him to a dragon's maws to be digested, or something among those lines.

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