[Suggestion] Stop making Story Bosses Hard (LS4 Spoilers)

[Cerioth.7062]

I think the story difficulty is fine as it is and I hope they dont change it to easier direction.

Just yesterday someone in my guild was struggling with a HoT story instance (the jungle provides). They were playing a ranger and I gave them few specialization and skill suggestions - so no major build tweaking, just trying out different traits and skills. No gear changes. They tested it out and told me they were able to beat the story, and thanked me for the advice.

I am friends with plenty of average/casual players who have been able to do all of the story on their own and they have not found it too hard or frustrating.

Gameplay should be situational, even in story instances. What is the point of having a skill set and traits if you are unwilling and too stubborn to adjust them? I change my skill/trait set up constantly - for story, open world, raids, fractals, PVP, every content really. Even jumping puzzles. It makes the game more diverse and gives you tons of ways to explore the world. It will also improve your skill as a player and prepare you for team content, should you ever be interested in doing that. Regardless, story is not comparable to raids and raids do not certainly introduce any bullethell or lot of AOE telegraphs. I suggest you watch a video or two about raid mechanics before comparing them to story content.

As for length... I havent had issues with that either but I can see people with unoptimized stats taking a little while with it. However the bosses shouldnt be killed as fast as in Personal Story.

[Ashantara.8731]

As usual, it depends on the profession you play. I found it fairly easy to master with my Scourge, but can imagine it being rather tedious with low-health professions.

[Lexi.1398]

I think that while the fights are hard in..all of the stories except PS & LS2, including PoF and LS4, they're generally something you can get the hang of over a short time. Plus, there's always the option to group up for personal story.

The exception is that generally, all the PoF balthazar fights are exceedingly hard and something it doesn't give you a chance to learn, and i'd argue the same is true for one or two LS3 fights but tbh the hardest LS3 fight i've had (caudecus) only and SOLELY came from too much visual effects going on all the time, ie less visual effects and bright effects in particular and i wouldn't complain about that fight, it'd still be hard but it'd be manageable. That's...only slightly true for PoF Balth fights, while they do have significant clutter PoF balth fights difficulty comes from both the high damage he deals in a short time if you don't evade the right attacks (and high damage in general makes it difficult to know which thing killed you), and the long instances making it impossible to leave the fight and rethink and replan without losing significant progress- esp as the hardest bosses, including yes all Balth fights, trap you in place in constant combat (aside for one). These are the only fights which are hard and I think should be altered in some way to reduce the difficulty - OR provide more breaks between instances and a safe place (without losing health progress on the boss) where you can change your characters build (utilities mainly) a little for PoF.

Aside from that, the only two fights in the game so far as i've done them that i'd argue should have less health- is Scruffy 2.0 and Balthazar in The Departed. Both fights take an obscene amount of time, Scruffy 2.0 is pretty good on the difficulty as long as you actually are moving around and attempting to avoid being attacked, Balthazar is difficult but see above for why that is, but the issue is they both have an insanely high amount of health to deplete which, more than anything, just makes them so boring and really make you lose any care you had for the story if any at all, you just want those fights to be over. :/

I only died once for Scruffy 2.0...and thats because i missed a jump and fell to my death. xD

[RoseofGilead.8907]

I don't think there was anything in this fight that was particularly difficult, once you've figured out what to do. However, it does have waaaaaay to much HP, in my opinion. I also hate forced invulnerability phases, especially when they're done multiple times (like in this particular boss fight). The HP could do with some tweaking.

[Lunarlife.5128]

@Erasculio.2914 said:

@Lunarlife.5128 said:While I'm not super experienced with the game (Maybe 500 hours) it seems really off that certain bosses & events destroy some but not others.

That's the idea. If you see a boss that you cannot defeat, try changing your build to something more suited to fighting that boss.

The only way for all builds to defeat all enemies equally would be if everything died in one hit.

I do change builds (Chrono vs. mirage. Tempest vs Weaver. Vipers vs bezerkers vs minstrels etc).

It's however, the fact that changing the entire class that I'm playing is a solution.

[Biff.5312]

I can see offering an option to skip a boss if it's too hard for a particular player. I don't want them to nerf the difficulty of bosses - that's the point. It's also some of the only really challenging/fun content. BUT, if I run into one I simply can't beat, I wouldn't want to have to just quit the story. So again - offering a bypass would be okay.

[DedTreeJig.3245]

I'm not going to comment on the difficulty, but I agree that the companions are mostly useless (looking at you Braham).

[Menadena.7482]

@Nikal.4921 said:This is story content. To tell a story, not prepare you for raids. I am thoroughly discouraged by the difficulty of story bosses and so hardly bother with them. I'd like to get the story line, so it's a real disappointment.

Exactly. Stories used to be something fun to do when I had time to do them and could enjoy things. Now between the various things they have done lately (like locking content behind part of the story) they are no longer a casual thing. Honestly anet, if I wanted to stress out I would do a fractal or a raid. Make stories casual again.

[Menadena.7482]

@MokahTGS.7850 said:It just would be nice if they added a story mode to PS stuff that toned down the raid mechanics for those solo players that just want to see the story unfold.

Bingo!!!!!

I do stories as much as possible by myself. So that means when something assumes a party I do not get to enjoy the story, I am running around like a chicken with its head cut off and it becomes work rather than fun. They can even keep the rewards as long as the story unlocks the new map.

[Umut.5471]

They weren't hard for me, I defeated them easily. But, high hp pool and long fights were clearly boring.

[Michael.8562]

I agree with the OP. I finished the PoF Balthazar fight in my panties because I had died so many times and I wasn't about to start it over. I LOVE the story and hate the fights. Sorry, that's just how I am. I think players that enjoy the fight and the mechanics SHOULD be able to continue to enjoy that part of the game. I also think that people that want to progress the story without having to slog through monster battles have a point too. I really liked the way the developers of Mass Effect allowed the player to select the difficulty mode - people who just wanted the story could choose story mode - not breezing past the bosses but not having to work too hard either. Then the player could ratchet up to "nightmare" mode or some such if that was their thing. I don't know why it has to be an either/or thing and not both. And make the rewards scale for people that are into that. I couldn't care less if I don't get the latest fancy thing as long as I can get through the fight so I can find out what's going on in the darn story.

[Zohane.7208]

I'll have to disagree with the OP, at least in part.

Sure, the story is not to prepare for raids or other high-end stuff, but it's also not meant to be facerolled. While the scruffy fight was tedious and it required a bit of movement I can't really say that it was hard. I was downed once during the fight, and of course died once during the massive unload phase, but for a first try I don't think that's too bad. I hadn't researched the fight at all so I just played it as it came. I didn't change my build at all. All it took was to move out of the aoes and I was just fine.And no, I'm in no way an expert player; I consider myself quite average.

[Chickenooble.5014]

@Michael.8562 said:I agree with the OP. I finished the PoF Balthazar fight in my panties because I had died so many times and I wasn't about to start it over. I LOVE the story and hate the fights. Sorry, that's just how I am. I think players that enjoy the fight and the mechanics SHOULD be able to continue to enjoy that part of the game. I also think that people that want to progress the story without having to slog through monster battles have a point too. I really liked the way the developers of Mass Effect allowed the player to select the difficulty mode - people who just wanted the story could choose story mode - not breezing past the bosses but not having to work too hard either. Then the player could ratchet up to "nightmare" mode or some such if that was their thing. I don't know why it has to be an either/or thing and not both. And make the rewards scale for people that are into that. I couldn't care less if I don't get the latest fancy thing as long as I can get through the fight so I can find out what's going on in the darn story.If you like the story and hate the fights just go watch some Youtube of someone else complete the content? I don't get how you guys think it's okay to r etard the content (and difficulty progression) just because you don't know how to play your class or take instant repair canisters. That's not the games fault.

[Lemondrop.5216]

@TheUndefined.1720 said:" I'm currently sitting in the active fight with Scruffy 2.0, dead, having died at least a dozens times, and I honestly just want to throw my hands up. "

Lol, I hear you. There are several times I was alone with no armor, naked and continually dying and nobody would help me. Took me hours to finally succeed, but I'd never want to do it again.

[Solvar.7953]

I don't mind story bosses being hard, but I find some of the fights excessively long. Its gotten to the point where I expect that every 25%, the boss will become immune, you'll have to do some special thing to make it non immune, and you'll need to repeat that sequence 2 more times. This is hardly interesting.Also, most stories have pretty crap loot - just a set of a few items when you complete it. So except for collections or specific skins, stories probably have near the lowest form of item or wealth game per time of any play mode.So in many cases, reducing the HP of the boss monster would make the story faster, and not really mess anything up. While some people may have optimum/high DPS builds, at this points, that almost seems like a requirement, since the player is really the only one doing damage.Maybe for those who really want the challenge, put it some bonus for killing the boss in under some time limit or something, and make that the aspect that is hard to achieve.

[Ayrilana.1396]

I kind of wish there was a way to watch those saying “it’s like playing a raid” or that it’s “too difficult” play the content. It’d make it easier to point out what they’re doing wrong and give advice on what to do to improve their situation.

[Michael.8562]

@Chickenooble.5014 said:

@Michael.8562 said:I agree with the OP. I finished the PoF Balthazar fight in my panties because I had died so many times and I wasn't about to start it over. I LOVE the story and hate the fights. Sorry, that's just how I am. I think players that enjoy the fight and the mechanics SHOULD be able to continue to enjoy that part of the game. I also think that people that want to progress the story without having to slog through monster battles have a point too. I really liked the way the developers of Mass Effect allowed the player to select the difficulty mode - people who just wanted the story could choose story mode - not breezing past the bosses but not having to work too hard either. Then the player could ratchet up to "nightmare" mode or some such if that was their thing. I don't know why it has to be an either/or thing and not both. And make the rewards scale for people that are into that. I couldn't care less if I don't get the latest fancy thing as long as I can get through the fight so I can find out what's going on in the darn story.If you like the story and hate the fights just go watch some Youtube of someone else complete the content? I don't get how you guys think it's okay to r etard the content (and difficulty progression) just because you don't know how to play your class or take instant repair canisters. That's not the games fault.

What a really thoughtful, one size fits all, response. Please stop with the 'just because you don't know how to play your class' nonsense. There are literally thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people playing this game. And guess what, they can't all be you. They don't all have the same experience, background or thumbs as you. Why should their experience of the game be the same as yours? The 'learn to play your class' response is tired and thick. Why should I have to NOT play the game (ie. watch youtube videos) because I like different parts of it than you? Or because different parts speak to me.

If you read my post you'd know I'm not asking for the content to be toned down for everyone. I'd just like a choice.

[Fluffball.8307]

GW2 is not a novel. The story is not worth playing if you are never presented any challenges. Game comes first.

Also none of the bosses have ever been hard, specifically to prevent topics like this.

[SapphireDisaster.1046]

I have to agree on the uselessness of the companions, particularly in the final story step. I also got the fun of having to mow down the inquest zerg by myself while Rytlock and everyone else stood right next to me doing nothing. And I kind of wonder if the reason the HP pool on Scruffy 2.0 was so high is because Braham is supposed to be doing more than just wandering around (I never got downed so not sure if he would have helped me then, at least Rytlock would res me when the Inquest swarm got me). Not sure about everyone else but I took Scruffy on as a Druid and as long as I didn't stand too close to the edge I was OK, but it did take a VERY long time to drain him and I found myself wishing I'd gone in to the instance as Soulbeast instead, especially with how close I had to stand to Scruffy anyway.

[Ashen.2907]

I tend to agree with the title. Players should stop making boss fights hard on themselves.

[blambidy.3216]

I think you probably have a build problem. Or don’t understand your skills with the class. I did not struggle with scruffy whatsoever. It took me a 5 min to figure out how to take down the white orb then after that. Scruffy was very simple to kill. I was just a regular ranger and running Condi with just exotics. Until I can gather all crafting mats to make ascended I’m just running exotics.

I even helped another player finish that story within 20 mins on scruffy.Bosses in this game are not hard at all. I think you need to try more then just pve to get better. Or try a more squishy character so you can run your regular class. Mordremoth was much more harder. Even with a full team. But to take down the health and the rivals dps no. I rather have a more fun time then speed through weak bosses. That will make me leave the game.

Back to what you need to do. Study the game. Study your class. Understand dodging. When to key use your skills. Every skill and heal skill counts. Use the right build, right traits, and right sigals and runes. Because it counts. As much as people complain let it be tough. Stop trying to get through story easy. Take it tough and get through it. too Many whining. Arenanet does not need to nerf down anything. If anything pof hps need to be nerfed up. Pof Balthazar needs to be nerfed up. But nerf down? No. Scruffy doesn’t need to be nerfed down.

[Illurim.6059]

From the comments, it seems like there's two types of people - those who just want to enjoy the story, relax, have fun, unwind, listen to the funny one liners and be carried along by it. That's me. Story is story and it should be interesting and engaging and fun. There's plenty of OTHER places in the game to create difficulty and challenge for those seeking it.

Then there's those types that seem to derive some kind of self-worth/validation from being able to tell everyone how easy it is for them and by extension how sub-par people who find it challenging are. There's no discussion available with those people, really, because they won't admit, and can't see, that other people don't actually care about being challenged in a game, because it's a game. Some of us don't sit there and go OH YEAH I BEAT THAT BOSS I'M THE BEST I ROCK. We just beat it and go 'ooooh look at that cool ceiling, that's really well done'. People who derive validation from 'beating' something in a game can't comprehend how un-relatable that is to someone who just cares about the story being interesting and fun. They can't understand why when someone says to me "The scruff fight is easy, I beat it in one go" that I literally laugh and think to myself "is that your major accomplishment for today?". Some of us are so busy with our actual lives and getting mean from them, the validation we all crave, that when we sit down at a game like GW2 and run the STORY to RELAX and UNWIND we just want to enjoy it.

So, realistically, nothing will come of this discussion because those who don't care for challenge in story won't be able to get those who derive their validation from challenge to understand our point of view, much less agree with it or think it's valid to have. ANet seems to agree with those folks, so for now, it's crappy, over-mechaniccy 'raid'-like story, which is boring and not worth the short time some of us have to play. I'd rather spend an hour in WvW than sit alone in a story instance dying to unnecessary mechanics just so I can keep up with the main story of the game.

The sad thing, the story quality (portrayl, dialogue, pacing) suffers tremendously in the current environment. ANet have a wonderful story arc and I'm very interested in it, but the story instances are so off kilter in pacing/energy/quality/detail that it feels like the story meeting went like "what's our arc this season? yeah good idea, let's do that. Ok what are the details? nah kitten detials, let's just make every fight super hard so we don't have to worry, they won't even realise there's no actual story and just an idea".

The only part of the story I remember well is my conversation with Caithe when I was investigating the bloodstone fen explosion (from LS3). The dialogue was great, the writing and the way the scene was put together, the pacing of the dialogue in the final fight and the joke on timing, were fantastic. Memorable. Beautifully done. What do I remember from LS4? No dialogue. No good writing. Nothing beautiful to speak of. It's just boring and annoying and so I'm literally waiting until it's nerfed before I even bother with it, because it's so poorly presented it feels like it was done by a completely different team.

[Ashen.2907]

Its an interactive story about a challenge to be overcome. The interactive challenge is inherent to the story.

[Illurim.6059]

@Ashen.2907 said:Its an interactive story about a challenge to be overcome. The interactive challenge is inherent to the story.

Aren't you the bloke that said it was easy? That you did it first go, no deaths? You said:

"I didnt find the Scruffy fight to be particularly difficult, but it was annoying."

So, you're exactly the type of person I was referring to being unable to have a discussion with. One the one hand you tell us you weren't challenged and the fight wasn't difficult. On the other, you're telling me it's meant to be challenging. So, either you're SO GREAT that you didn't notice the challenge, OR your argument is wildly inconsistent. Thus, "the type of person who won't understand my point of view and can't accept it's valid".

Until you can relegate the inconsistencies in your own logic (is it challenging or not?) there's no discussion to be had because the only person being challenged is me, between the two of us, and you're saying I should be. You don't get to decide that for me. I do. And if you WEREN'T challenged, then making it easier for me so I'm NOT challenged seems pretty fair, right?

[Chickenooble.5014]

@Illurim.6059 said:

@Ashen.2907 said:Its an interactive story about a challenge to be overcome. The interactive challenge is inherent to the story.

Aren't you the bloke that said it was easy? That you did it first go, no deaths? You said:

"I didnt find the Scruffy fight to be particularly difficult, but it was annoying."

So, you're exactly the type of person I was referring to being unable to have a discussion with. One the one hand you tell us you weren't challenged and the fight wasn't difficult. On the other, you're telling me it's meant to be challenging. So, either you're SO GREAT that you didn't notice the challenge, OR your argument is wildly inconsistent. Thus, "the type of person who won't understand my point of view and can't accept it's valid".

Until you can relegate the inconsistencies in your own logic (is it challenging or not?) there's no discussion to be had because the only person being challenged is me, between the two of us, and you're saying I should be. You don't get to decide that for me. I do. And if you WEREN'T challenged, then making it easier for me so I'm NOT challenged seems pretty fair, right?No, because it's not about being "fair" - you can always get better. Some people can't get worse. By making content easier for people who can't play the game right then the experience is going to be lessened for everyone else. Why should the content be made easier for you?